What Keeps Entrepreneurs From Growing

Hey guys, it's episode number 316 with an expert speaker, coach, businesswoman and podcast host, my friend, Kelly Roach. Kelly has been a leader in Fortune 500 companies and now she brings all of her expertise to small business owners and entrepreneurs and large companies alike as she talks about leadership and growing a team. And really what I like to consider moving from the entrepreneurship mindset to a CEO mindset. Today, Kelly goes into some serious gems of leadership and what it really means to be a CEO and lead your company. You guys, please meet my friend Kelly Roach, top author, podcaster, expert and speaker.

Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works for from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, I just want to thank you this week for listening to this podcast. I hope you love this episode. As a reminder, when you're listening, take a shot. Not an alcohol shot. I guess I meant to say a screenshot. A screenshot. Take a screenshot and let me know what you're doing, where you're at, where you're listening. Take a photo of wherever you are. Maybe it's your morning run, maybe you're driving in the car, maybe you're doing your makeup. But send it to me over on Instagram @ajalderson or or @ the Boutique Hub. I'd love to hear what you think of the episodes and what else you would love to learn. I also want to thank you guys for subscribing to the show and leaving a review. You guys are killing it with the reviews and I appreciate it. This week I want to give a shout out to K. Thompson, 16, who said being a newer boutique owner can be intimidating and overwhelming. But joining the Hub and following the podcast has been a game changer. The education is invaluable and Ashley and her team have created the best environment for learning and and for community building. Hey K. Thompson, 16, thank you so much for subscribing and leaving a review for the show, guys. Don't forget to leave a review and subscribe if you haven't already. And I will be back next week with a new guest, a new topic, and a new way to grow your business. Have a great week, you guys.

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast this week and we are both doing audio and video if you also want to catch us on YouTube today. But I am so excited to be joined by really well known author, public speaker. You've been on multiple media outlets, Kelly, the founder of Unstoppable Entrepreneur and also Unstoppable the book. Kelly Roach, I'm so excited to have you on the show today.

Thank you so much for having me. So good to be here, Ashley.

I should have added top rated podcast host as well to that list of things, right? Kelly, I think you and I are going to have the opportunity to scroll down so many different paths today because I feel like we're very aligned in just our vision and strategy when it comes to business. But I want to hit on today, no matter if you're a brand new business owner, we're going to talk about some secrets to success. But also today I want to get into if you are a multimillion dollar business owner, what are some things that you should be thinking about right now to continue to not just build profit, but put away wealth? So we're going to cover that conversation in a minute. But in case anyone hasn't met you yet, Kelly, I would love to hear just the background story coming from Fortune 500 and being a leadership expert. Tell me more about how you got to do what you're doing today.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, as you said, I started in Fortune 500, was promoted seven times in eight years. I built a team from zero all the way up to a staff of 100. I was managing 17 locations. We actually broke every record in the company's history for profitable growth, expansion, internal promotions, all of those things. And I just became fascinated with helping people become successful. And I fell in love with helping people reach their potential and stretch their limits. And really just understanding how when you teach others the foundations of good business practice and principle, how it really unlocks what's possible from both a wealth building and income growth standpoint as well as just challenging yourself and enjoying the fun journey of building business. And for me, you know, I kind of ran to the top of that mountain. I always say in my 20s, I had like a whole career, in my 20s, like a lifetime career, did the senior vice president thing and was on the planes and the trains and the buses and the crazy hours and working at night and working on the weekend and, you know, all those things. And I got to the point where, you know, my husband and I were starting to like at the time, we weren't even married yet, but we were starting to plan, you know, our family and our life together. And I just knew that what I wanted was not just, you know, fulfillment and making an impact, but also, you know, the freedom to put my family first. And so I decided to take the things that I love, which is coaching and teaching business and empowering people, and start my own company. And I started off working full time, running my business on the side, coaching clients at night after hours, at 7 and 8 o' clock at night. I did that for a couple years and then we went from being a six figure company to a seven figure company. Now we're an eight multiple eight figure company. I've been internal staff of about 60 full time employees and I actually in the meantime started a couple other companies and a philanthropic foundation. So it's fun. I have a couple businesses with partners, one that has a retail arm of it, which I know applies to some of the listeners here today. But yeah, it's been a journey, right? It's been a journey and you know, happy to dig into any aspect of that, but that's just a little bit about, you know, my, my career journey to today.

Yeah. What I love about what you said is I feel like entrepreneurs that find success enjoy the game of the business. And I think you referenced that like once you kind of figure it out, then it's. It's a game to dig in and figure it out again. And the other thing that you said that really I think speaks to me so much right now is going back to the reason most people start businesses in the first place is they want freedom. But sometimes rather than creating more freedom, we create more of a job and we work more hours than we ever would working for somebody else. And if I look back at what's happened to our world in the last year, one of the biggest blessings from COVID I feel like everyone had to fall off the hamster wheel for sure. And now we're getting back on. So business has changed in, you know, crazy amount in the last year, as you think about that and that hamster wheel people fell off of. And now we're kind of reinventing what it means to be an entrepreneur today. What do you feel like are three of the biggest struggles that you see entrepreneurs facing and then maybe three of the biggest opportunities as this new world of entrepreneurship unfolds today?

Yeah, so the biggest trap, right, is dilution of time, energy and effort. You know, the average entrepreneur is on this endless hamster wheel, working endless hours and burning themselves to the ground and trying so hard to build and not seeing that the effort that they're putting in is creating the results out. And usually that is because of dilution. And it's like we're trying to do too many things. And so what we're doing is we're putting in a little bit of energy and effort to a thousand different things instead of picking a few things and really exerting our creative thinking, our energy and building this like, you know, quantum leap. And so I think the number one thing for entrepreneurs, and it doesn't matter what kind of business that you run, is really looking at shrinking the number of different priorities that you're tackling at any given time and the number of places that you're putting your energy. Because that's one of the biggest traps that kills businesses. Because what happens is the business owner burned down, they just can't keep going anymore. And they say to themselves, well, if I'm working this hard and I'm still not getting the results and I can't work any harder, I guess this isn't for me, right? And I see entrepreneurs at every level coming to that conclusion. This isn't just about people that are just getting started. It happens at the higher levels too. So simplification is what drives multiplication. So the number one thing I would challenge everyone listening today to do is to go back, look at your calendar for the last 90 days, look at the things that you're exerting your time and energy on, and really look at how can you shrink that by 30%? I do this every business quarter. I completely break my calendar down, rebuild it from the ground up, and reevaluate where my time is going. And if it makes sense anymore, and if it really is the right emphasis. Number one is dilution, right? That's the number one trap. The number two trap is just constantly starting over. And it does not matter whether you're a novice or you're a multi million dollar business owner. We get bored with our own businesses and we're always like, oh, well, maybe I'll do this and then maybe I'll do that and then let's change the program name, let's redo the website and let's change the launch and let's do this program instead of that program. And so we create this cycle of always starting over. And when you look at business growth, it comes from mastery. That then drives leverage and scale. And when you're always starting over, you can't create mastery, which means you can't create leverage and scale, which means that you're 100% relying on putting in more hours, which we all know doesn't work.

We.

Right. So really creating this discipline around continuity in your business and really allowing yourself to resist starting over by asking yourself, what do you really want? Because I think we forget why we got in this in the first place. And this starting over because you're bored. And there's a million reasons why people start over. Whether they think it's too hard, what they're doing. They think that something else is going to be the path of least resistance or something sees like it's the sexier, you know, easier path. I mean, there's a million reasons why people start over, but at the end of the day, every time you start over, you're doing exactly that. You are literally going back to zero and starting over. And then people wonder, why am I on this endless hamster wheel? Because you're running in place. You're not going anywhere. Right? So I think those are two of the big ones. I know that was a lot, so I'll just pause there for a second.

I love those two big ones. And what I hear you saying in my mind, I equate it to there's two ways of leading a company. We all start as an entrepreneur, and then you can change from being an entrepreneur to a CEO, and it's a mindset shift. And the things that you're saying to me equate to moving toward becoming a CEO. Is there anything else, like when I say entrepreneur versus CEO that comes to mind that you think are shifts that we have to make along the way?

Well, yeah. I mean, and that's what I would give us the third thing. And I focus, I teach so much on this, which is team building. You know, I see entrepreneurs just holding on to too much, and they are the bottleneck to their own growth. And they are the person that is stealing. They're stealing their own freedom from themselves because they're not willing to unclench their fists and allow. And the biggest thing, and I will tell you, and I talk to my team about this all the time, they don't want to allow their team to fail because they're afraid. And because they don't allow their team to fail, their team always underperforms. If you don't encourage your team to fail, they're never going to try hard enough to create greatness. Never, ever, ever, ever. So unless you become a true CEO, which means allowing innovation, allowing testing, encouraging creativity, allowing people to fail forward, encouraging people to fail forward, you create this environment in which people play in this really small box. And so you always have mediocrity. You always have mediocrity. And then you're like, I want to fire everyone because they suck. I hear this all the time. They're like, I just want to fire everyone. I'm like, you know, when the whole team's losing, you gotta look at the coach, right? So you know, that's, that's another thing, right? So we're always the cap to our team and our leadership is always what then ripples out and creates the trends. And you know, the third biggest thing that keeps entrepreneurs from growing and scaling and enjoying freedom in the business is one, not investing enough in team, and then two, not allowing that team to stretch themselves to achieve greatness.

I love that. So break this down for me for a second. Thinking about allowing your team to fail forward, put some context around leadership and you as the coach, what does that look like on a daily basis? Because I think there's a difference in leadership and micromanaging. Huge difference. So structurally, what does that mean to be an effective leader for your team?

Yeah. So there's three layers, right? There's three layers. So the bottom layer is managing. And managing is tactical and transactional. It's the checks and balances to ensure the right initiative is taken and the right deliverables are achieved. And it's all about like tactical implementation. Right? And that's fine, but that in and of itself is not going to drive sustainable hyper growth. Right. The next level up above that is leadership. Leadership is about inspiring greatness. It's really about encouraging creativity, innovation, failing forward, new ideas, testing, trying things, encouraging people to build their skill sets and expand their knowledge base. And then the third level above that, which is when you get in the space of really enjoying the benefits of having a team, is becoming the trusted advisor. And to me, the trusted advisor status, which is I have about 15 leaders on my team now and I'm working with each of them on elevating from manager to leader to trusted advisor. When you think about trusted advisor, it means that you're one of the top three people in this person's life that they would do anything not to disappoint. It means this person is going to walk on hot coals. They're going to do whatever it takes to not disappoint you. Because that trust is so deep, that partnership is so close, that collaboration is so mutually beneficial that they understand that everything that you would ever ask them to do is creating a simultaneous promotion of all interests. And they can trust not only giving their best and being their best, but doing it wholeheartedly. Even if they can't see the whole staircase, even if they don't have all the information, if they don't have all the answers, they're trying to do something that's never been done before. And that's how you achieve greatness. That's how you can get a team that can run ahead of you. I always use the example. Most people, their team are like a sack of boulders that's in their backpack and they're running up the hill every day with that sack of boulders weighing them down. And they get to the top of the mountain and then they go to bed at night, all the boulders fall back down again and then they start over the next day. Every day is ground pong day. And that's what happens when you tactically manage. Right? But when you combine management with leadership, inspiring greatness in people, helping people to see that when they help the company achieve its objectives, they too will achieve their goals and dreams. And then that trusted advisor status where that collaboration happens, that's when you get to the point where the team can now run ahead of you and they can sell, serve and market without you. They can drive the company forward without you. And they have both the trust and the freedom and the excitement and investment to do that. Because you've worked through these three layers of how you're leading them.

I love that. Talk to me about, like, the tactical time standpoint of that, because I know as a solo entrepreneur that's listening, they're going to say, I just, I don't have enough time to lead my team. But it's not just about time. So what does that look like in terms of meetings and daily communication? But then really it's mindset and it's inspiring and empowering. It's got to be the two things together. How could you plan that out so that you can start to create more time for what's really important?

Yeah. Well, the biggest thing to remember about investing in a team and taking that time with your team is when you invest that time in leading your team. That is what empowers them to take hours off of your plate, and that is what gives them the information, education, accountability and support that they need in order for you to work less hours. So it's a chicken or egg thing, right? Because people don't want to bring on team because they're like, I don't have time to lead, I don't have time to train, I don't have time. You don't have time, you don't have time not to. Right. So the investment in the team has to come first, and then second comes the freedom that you get back and the hours that you get back because you've given the team what they need in order to be able to take those things off your plate. And I call it the boomerang effect. Because so much of the time, entrepreneurs bring someone in and they just dump the workload and give them tactically all the things that they want them to do without truly making the investment in, helping them be empowered to execute the why. And then what happens is they make mistakes. It's a big old mess. And then it boomerangs right back onto the plate of the business owner. And now it's like worse than it was before. And it's so much cleanup and so much time and energy. And I hear from so many people that when they hire, they're hiring people that are just, you know, lazy or underperforming or whatever, when in fact, usually that's not the case. It's that those people were actually not given, you know, what they needed to be successful. They were not set up for success. And that is 100% on us. Right?

That's so, so good. And it plays into the idea of the culture that you're creating at the company too, which is equally as important. You can have someone who's a great performer but not fit your culture.

Oh, culture is everything. Culture is everything. Culture will take a company down, culture will take a company out of business. And culture will be the thing that catapults a business to the top of the category. 100%. The tactics are great, and it's important to have mass execution, but mass execution without heart, integrity, intentionality. Short lived, Very short lived. Very short lived.

What are some things that you think are either culture builders or culture in a team?

Yeah, I mean, culture builders caring about people and really investing in them and making time to know and understand their goals, their dreams, their vision, making plans to help them achieve the things that matter to them, really creating a trusted partnership, investing in them, providing education and support and collaboration. Really seeing it as a relationship, you know, that people are mutually invested in. So, you know, that's that. I think the things that break down culture is when. When there isn't strong communication, when. When people are being led very tactically and transactionally and, you know, when there isn't enough time spent on teaching, coaching, and training people around the why and mission and the vision and, you know, really what goes into the decisions that are being made. Because if people are just operating on surface level information, it's never going to create value. It's never going to create the commitment and investment that you will need to get the results right. Hey guys.

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Backslash boutiquechat always going back to the why. Starting with why, right?

Yeah.

Yes. What about the leader who feels like they have imposter syndrome? Like all of a sudden I'm sitting here leading this team, I've got my first couple of employees, I really don't know what I'm doing right. How can we face imposter syndrome?

Well, I think there's no need for imposter syndrome because leadership is a set of skills. So if you're committed to being a good leader, then you just seek out to learn those skills. And so, you know, there are ways that you can do that. Obviously Learning tools and YouTube videos and books and educational programs and support and all that. But a lot of that happens on the ground. A lot of that comes through practice. I always say just the intention alone of making the decision that you want to be a great leader will separate you because most people don't care. Most people aren't really invested in being a great leader. They just want to extract a result from people. And so if you make the commitment alone to say, I want to learn to be a great leader and I'm committed to being Better, you know, each week that in and of itself is going to set you apart. Right?

Yeah, I like that. The intention, putting it out there says an awful lot about you. Right. Just the intentionality of it. So I'm thinking about growing a team, right. And we're moving from solo entrepreneur into, you know, a growing budding business. And we're talking to that business owner who's on the bubble and she's thinking about, man, I want to have, you know, all this success, but I need millionaire mindset to go with it. When you think about like moving to CEO and creating like a millionaire mindset, what are some common mindset shifts that you feel like entrepreneurs need to reach that millionaire mindset level?

Yeah. The most important thing is to shift into making decisions like an investment, like an investor. And what I mean by that is, you know, low level thinkers, beginning entrepreneurs. Everything is about upfront cost because you're scared, right. And we're all, we all go through this, right. So when you're getting started, everything's about upfront costs, everything's about, you know, yeah, you want to do this or you want to do that, but you're fearful of the investment. To shift into building a multimillion dollar company or crossing over to get to the million dollar mark, you have to begin to think like an investor. And how does an investor think? They don't make decisions based on the upfront cost. They make the decision based on the back end return. And that is a very different mindset. The other thing is novice entrepreneurs make decisions based on short term return, long term investors. People that run million and multimillion dollar companies, they're playing the long game. They're making decisions today to set themselves up for 5 and 10 and 15 years from now. So again, it's this idea of moving away from transaction and instant gratification and really moving into this idea of being an investor and playing the long game. Looking at long term ROI instead of looking at upfront costs, really looking@backend ROI. Because you just simply won't make the right decisions. You won't make the right decisions if you're looking at upfront costs. And then what happens is you don't invest in the things that you must invest in to get to that level. People, advertising, infrastructure, it, mentorship. You won't get there, you just simply won't. So it's being really clear about like intentionally making that shift and pushing through the fear.

Yeah. And speak to me about that fear because really that's the root of the issue is people Are scared to do this. Yeah.

Because we want guarantees. We want guarantees. We all want guarantees. And there is no guarantees. There is no guarantees. I mean, you know, you could walk outside and drop dead this afternoon. There's no guarantees. And that's the thing. You're fearful because you want to guarantee. But, like, what area of life is there guarantees in? Right. Anything great requires to take risk and to do your best and to work to get the best outcome. And until you're willing to release that need to have a guaranteed outcome, you're going to say, stop. Because there's nothing, there's no area of life in which you can achieve greatness without taking on great risk.

I love that. When you have reached that point and now you're building a profitable company, how does an entrepreneur with new. I'll say. I wouldn't even call it wealth, but new profit. They've got new cash, right? How do you turn profitability into wealth?

Yeah, I mean, you invest, right? So each person has to decide how they want to invest. Do you want to invest? You know, there were years for me where I looked at all the investments I could make, and I can make a bigger, faster ROI in my business. And so, you know, I invested a lot of cash in my business because I knew I could make more money in my business faster than I could in real estate, the stock market. So silver, gold, right? So there's a limited number. So you can invest in other businesses, you can invest in the stock market, you can invest in cryptocurrency, you can stock cash, you can get into silver and gold. So you just have to build out a portfolio of things that you feel most confident you're going to get an ROI on. A lot of times, if you're a smart business owner, you're a business owner that invests in good mentorship. Like real mentorship, right? Like not the fluff, like real mentorship. A lot of times, the best ROI that you're going to get is investing in your business. So then it's like, okay, be smart. What are you going to do with that money that you make? Right? Put it away, save it. Live below your means, put it aside, right? Put it into something that is going to stand the test of time. Right?

I love that you this idea of investing. There's so many different avenues, but it comes back to having a qualified team around you, whether that's quality mentorship or your investment partners. I know you just had Peter Mallouk on your podcast, founder of creative planning, and my husband and I have worked with him actually personally for a couple of years and love that company. Talk to me about how do you find a quality partner that is on your team in these different aspects, whether that's mentorship or someone to help with investing, an attorney, an accountant. Like we can't just always rely on the guy down the block, but you have to find someone who really is invested with you.

Yeah, for sure. I mean first of all, you have to get yourself in the mix of people that are at the level that you want to date. I know everyone has ever got a million friggin times, but people don't do it and it's the truth. You're not going to get referrals to people that are going to teach you strategies that apply to wealthy people if you're not surrounding yourself with wealthy people that need those strategies.

Period.

End of story. Right? So really think about that. If you're mixing in with people that are making 100 grand a year, they're going to have resources and suppliers and referrals that match up with people that are at 100 grand a year. So you have to make. Again we come back to this idea of investment. You have to make investment decisions about how are you going to get yourself in the mix with the level of person that is going to connect you with the level of person you want to work with. You're going to want personal referrals, you're not going to want the guy down the block. You're going to want someone that has worked with someone that you know like and trust that can validate them. And you have to put yourself in a space where you're connecting with people at that level to even be having that conversation. Right.

Building for where you want to go versus where you are is such a huge mindset. Shift this whole conversation. Wealth, time, productivity, team, all of these things. I've mentioned time a number of times. Oh God, pardon the pun. And you've talked about breaking down your calendar. I want to go back to time and productivity for a second because I think there's another conversation here. You work with a lot of women, we work with a lot of women. And this idea of balance is such a fun in our lives today. Talk to me specifically about you and those that you coach. How are we breaking down time? How are we finding time to get the most important things in? You mentioned reevaluating your calendar every quarter. Are there other strategies that you have that you feel like help people maximize the 24 hours they have in the day?

Yeah. And it really starts with your Values. So for me, when I rebuild my calendar every quarter, the first thing that I do is put on things related to Madison. That's the first thing that I do. So the first step is, for me, it's family first. So I put on date nights, I put on time with Madison, I put on Madison's school schedule, I put on the things that I want to be present for for my family. I put the boundaries around when is it work time and when is it family time? So I don't leave that to chance. That is schedule that is prioritized. And if you don't prioritize that, your business will swallow you whole. It will literally swap. It will take everything that you are willing to give it at all times. It's a never ending monster. And so. But the really cool thing is that you have complete control over deciding what these boundaries are going to be. But if you don't start by making a decision about what are my values, what are my values, what are my big rocks in my life that I want time for? Who are the people and what are the things that need to come first and plug them in first, Then they will get pushed aside and they won't. They'll never fit in. And that's why people say, I don't have time to work out, I don't have time for my family, I don't have time for this. Because you didn't prioritize that. That wasn't built into the way that you created your life. And this is why it's so cool that we can rebuild our calendars every quarter. Because you might be sitting here saying, oh my God, I did it all wrong. Well, great. Make a new calendar. You're an entrepreneur. You get to do that anytime you want. Right? You're in charge. And we forget sometimes that we're in charge, right? Yes.

Yes. Are you running your life or is it running? You've talked about a lot of secrets today to success. Are there any success secrets you feel like we haven't covered that you really feel like entrepreneurs need to hear today?

Well, you know, obviously I teach the live launch method and I teach launch cycling, which allows you to create a launch one time and repeat it every six to eight weeks and have absolute mastery of your scale system. And, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're going to use the live launch or whether you're going to use something else, but you have to have a methodology that you master, that you use continuously in your business to grow. And so I don't care if you use live launch or use webinar, use this, use that, whatever. I happen to leave Live launch is the best strategy, but I think a lot of people don't really have a growth strategy that is going to provide them the outcome that they desire. Like, If I asked 100 people, like, is your business on track based on the strategy that you're employing today to get you to where you're trying to go, most of them, if they were really honest, would say no. Right? So again, this idea of claiming your freedom is saying, okay, well, what changes do I need to make? Because why am I doing this if the path that I'm on isn't actually going to get me where I want to go? So it's creating alignment, right? And again, the thing that's so cool about entrepreneurship is like, we get out of alignment all the time, but we have the opportunity to come back into alignment. We get off track all the time, but we have an opportunity to get back on track. Like, you don't have to do this thing perfectly. It's not about right or wrong. It's just about making progress. It's about continuous progress. And I think that's the thing that we have to remember.

What I love about what I'm hearing you say, even though in retail, we're talking about launching products every single day, right? And it's such a vicious turn and burn cycle. But what I love about what you said is there has to be a methodology behind it. So some of our entrepreneurs here are again dropping new arrivals every single day. Some are launching in live sales every single week. But we have to be able to have a system that allows us to work the numbers backwards. If we're using the boutique traffic formula, and we're dividing our sales by our AOB by our conversion rates, and we're understanding how much traffic we need to drive. Now there's a system that we can walk through step by step and understand, are we on track to meet our metrics? Are we falling short? Or are we just throwing stuff at the wall and posting and hoping someone buys something at the end of the day? So I think that's beautiful, Kelly. I always ask our podcast guests this question, last question of the day. And it's the big question. And I know that you're going to nail it based on some of the things you've already said, but it's at the end of our lives, we've built these incredible businesses, right? And we've helped all of these people, but you're sitting on the front porch with your grandkids 30 years from now. And you're talking about the life that you lived in these businesses and all these people that you've touched as you're speaking to your grandkids on the front porch. In that moment, what's the thing that you want them to remember the most about you and the life that you lived?

That I empower people to achieve their dreams and that I live that for myself every day. Right. I see in Madison already that because she's always hanging out with me when I'm working in business, she's confident on camera. She wants to teach, she wants to lead. She's seven. She's seven. And so, you know, it's just being in your everyday life, the person that you actually are destined to be.

Right.

Not living someone else's life. And I want them to see that so many people's lives were changed because of me, but also that I showed up and lived those values every single day with my own family. Right. And then I put my family first. Right. And created opportunity because of the work that I was doing.

I love that. Well, Kelly Roach, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Have all the information about your book, your podcast, and where everybody can find you in today's show notes. But again, thank you so much for your time and very valuable advice today.

Thanks for having me.

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