GA 649 | Accountability Starts in the Mirror with Michael Caito

Performance is visible within the organization. And if you're really running your business to scale and each team in the organization is meeting every single month and reviewing the goals that each person sets, performance is visible. And the person that's not performing or hitting their goals, they're not gonna be comfortable working there. They're probably gonna self-select out. That's the beauty of putting accountability and measurement in your business.

Today, I'm excited to welcome Michael Cato to the show. Now, Michael and I had a really good conversation today, really focused on this whole idea of closing strategy execution gap. And so as you hear, so Michael isn't officially in sort of like the Lean Six Sigma world or whatever, but the work that he does is very complementary to everything that we're all about. And that's why I was sort of excited to have him on and to hear his perspective on how he goes about helping companies with this whole strategy execution gap. And so we really just kind of dive into his thoughts on why this is so hard for companies to get right and what they need to do to sort of turn strategy into consistent execution. Lots of stories, lots of good examples along the way here. So I think you're going to enjoy this one. I know I did. Show notes can be found over at gembapodcast.com. This is episode 649. Again, gembapodcast.com, look for episode 649. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Hey, Michael, welcome to the show. How's it going?

Ron, great to be here. All right.

Where are you calling in from?

Today we're in, uh, well, not today, every day unless I'm traveling, I'm in, uh, Orange County, California, right by Laguna.

Oh, that's a real tough place to live, man. Sorry for your struggles, man. You know?

Hey, listen, listen, Rod, I'm not originally from California. I'm originally from Buffalo, New York. Oh, Bills.

That's a little different.

Yeah, it's a little different.

Yeah. So, so Bills, or where, how do you go, man?

Like, no, no, no. I'm like, I'm, I'm all in on, you know, you can't take the Buffalo out of, out of me. So I'm a big Bills fan and, uh, getting ready for the season in 2 weeks.

All right, all right. Well, I grew up in Ohio. I live in Texas now, and so I'm a big Ohio State guy. You know, I watched it since I was a little kid. And so I say, you could— my mom always used to say, you could take the boy out of Ohio, but you can't take Ohio out of the boy, or whatever, you know?

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, good stuff. All right, well, hey man, as you know, Michael, we like to begin all of our episodes with our guests sharing a quote. So what do you got?

My shirt says discipline, but that's a word. If I was to go with a quote, it would be, uh, Focus on what's vital. And the reason I say that is because of that Pareto principle, you know, 20% of the activities drive 80% of the results. And, you know, I think that applies in all areas of our life. You gotta focus on what's vital and either delegate or dismiss the trivial many, as we like to say, so.

Yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. All right, well, hey, tell us a little bit about yourself, Michael. Tell us about your background and what you're up to these days.

Background, you know, besides being from Buffalo.

Mm-hmm.

After I moved to— after I moved here when I was 18, just packed up all my stuff and drove here and said, I'm done with Buffalo. Landed in Orange County and started, you know, working in restaurants and started college. And during college, my brother and his best friend came to me and they were like, hey, we have an idea for a business. And in my mind, I was already thinking I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to start a business. And their crazy idea was to deliver food from home, from restaurants that don't deliver to homes and businesses.

Okay.

So if that sounds familiar, think DoorDash.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so people, this was 1993, people didn't know what that concept was. So, you know, this was pre-internet, pre-mobile technology, and we decided to give it a run. And it was, you know, rocky in the beginning. And we're sitting there our first couple of days, we had, we were writing orders on paper, answering them on the phone, using 2-way radios, talking to each other when they're out in the field looking to make deliveries. We didn't do any business the first 2 days, and then finally the last, the 3rd day, one of our friends placed an order. But that was, you know, we kind of started to feel like we were onto something. And as time went on, we really started to grow that business. And eventually we figured out we needed some help, so we brought a company called MAP Consulting into our business, which trained me, trained my partners. Like, they trained all our leaders on basically how to be real managers, you know, the things, the meat and potatoes that we needed to do to really run the business.

Mm-hmm.

So we, as we were growing that business and implementing that MAP, the MAP process into everything that we did, we started buying companies around the country.

Mm-hmm.

And so we ended up in 10 markets around the country. And then in about 2014, we were out raising some capital to continue to grow the business and make more acquisitions. And Grubhub found us and they kind of made us an offer we couldn't refuse. They were about ready to— they were freshly public. They were about ready to start competing with DoorDash. And they wanted, they were building a footprint and we had a footprint that they wanted. So they tucked us into their business and that was that. That was—

What was the, like, go back to like the first week of you and your buddies starting that company and you had walkie-talkies talking to you. It's like, what happened? Like somebody said, I wanted a number 1 for McDonald's or?

Yeah, so what would happen is, you know, we had to go around and sell restaurants to join our platform. which was just a magazine at that time.

Okay.

And we talked to a lot of restaurants and they didn't really understand the concept. So we were trying to explain the concept to them as well as getting them to trust 3 kids. We were all from New York living in California, opening up this business. And so the way it would work is we'd publish a little 6-page magazine. There was no internet, and we would try to mail it to homes, drop it on, you know, at businesses. And so they'd pick up the phone, I'd answer it probably in the office, And then I'd fax the— I'd put the order, write it down, or put it in our computer, and I'd send it to the— I'd fax it to a restaurant, and then I'd radio the boys on their 2-way radios and be like, go to Green Burrito and pick up order number 32. And then they'd go pick it up and deliver it.

Wow.

That was pretty old school.

You just mark it up a little bit?

No, good, good, good question. No, our model was based on, uh, taking a 30% discount, so we would buy it We'd hold— that's not wholesale, but we would take it, we'd buy it at 30% off, sell it at regular price, and then have a delivery fee.

Huh.

And then gratuity to the drivers. So, uh, the business— the industry's changed a lot. Like, I like to say, if I'd have known that back then that you could mark the food up and charge what DoorDash charges right now, uh, I don't know, who knows what we would have done with the business. But it was, uh, you know, we tried to— our, our whole thing was trying to keep the prices the same as in the restaurant. And so why wouldn't you have it delivered?

Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh. Anyway, so it was cool, man. That's so cool.

Yeah, it was a twenty twenty two year journey with that business, but it goes fast.

I remember the early days of Gemba Academy when it was just me and you know my two business partners, and that's all. It was just us, and and really it was primarily me in the beginning because John and Kevin were were super busy with with other things, and and. And I remember we turned our website on in March of 2009, if I remember, if that's right. I think that's right. And, uh, and, uh, and I thought we were like, how much money are we gonna make the first day? Well, I'll tell you how much. Zero.

Yeah, exactly.

And even like the second day, it's like, I don't even know how many days it was. Finally someone called and like bought something for like, I think we had like a $97 product at the time and they bought it and I, Oh my gosh, I almost fell off my chair. I ran out yelling at my wife, we just sold something, you know? And what a feeling, man, you know, like just to have that first sale, right?

Yeah, I think we all remember that first dollar.

Yeah.

You know, that we produced, you're like, oh my gosh, this is real. Yeah. And so anyways, yeah.

Yeah, good stuff.

Those were some— it's, it's, it's— listen, I, yeah, work with— tomorrow I— or not tomorrow, Friday I train a group of entrepreneurs and it's really about Everybody says, oh, it's trust the process, this, that, and the other thing. It's like, to me, it's like, love the process. Love the process of building a business because there's hard times, there's good times.

Yeah.

But as long as we keep our eye on the North Star of where we're trying to take this business, you know, we can have that grit that we need, that hope that we have, you know, to take it to where it needs to get to. But the process, man, you gotta enjoy it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's not easy. It's freaking hard. Even my business I currently have, it's like, it's not easy. That's okay though.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. All right, well, so I guess my first kind of official question is, you know, I know with your background, you know, you've worked with a lot of different companies and got a lot of stories. So I'm wondering if, if you have any thoughts on, you know, a lot of companies struggle to take a strong strategy and turn it into sort of consistent execution. Like, why is that so hard?

Well, that's a real gap. We call that kind of the strategy-execution gap.

Mm-hmm.

There's this delta between where a CEO and an executive team want to take a business and then the actual results. And what goes in between the strategy and results, you can call it action, you can call it execution, whatever you want to call it, but that's where the rubber meets the road. According to Harvard, it's something like, depending on what dataset you're looking at, anywhere from like 60 to 80% of CEOs feel they have the right strategy or the right direction, but like 20 or 30% of them think that they can actually execute it. And the reason that's the case, the reason that that gap exists is because companies may not have the level of accountability that they need within their business. in order to actually execute the strategy. And they may think they have accountability, but accountability comes down to a couple of different things that we could talk about.

So, talk a little bit about— you mentioned CEOs, like, talk about, like, the role that you think a CEO plays, maybe not in contrast, but in harmony with, however you want to say it, like, with his or her leadership team, right? Like, what's the role of the CEO to, you know, make sure that Things get done, if the company is going in the right direction, making those tough decisions or whatever it might be.

I like to think that there's 5 things CEOs really own when it relates to, to answer your question. The number one thing that they own is cash. Okay. Business cash is oxygen for businesses. Mm-hmm. So as a CEO, as a founder, the reason you hear those things like, oh, or an entrepreneur, oh, they have sleepless nights. Yeah. You wanna know why we have sleepless nights? 'Cause we're worried about cash. Mm-hmm. And so we never want to, we wanna always have a strong, You know, capital structure in our business, business model, really understanding what's creating cash in our business. Because you can have profits but still not have cash. And if you run out of cash, you're done. So the number one thing is cash. Number 2, they have to really— they, you know, the CEO or the entrepreneur, they own the strategy of the business. You know, that's theirs to own. They can get input from everybody, do all the research they want, but at the end of the day, they got to combine that with what their gut tells them. And I And I never want to underestimate what your gut tells you as a founder or as an entrepreneur because 9 out of 10 times, you're probably in the right ballpark. But it's easy to get swayed by data. It's easy to get swayed by other people. It's kind of like being a football coach. It's like the data, you're at the end of the game, there's 17 seconds left. It's like, do we kick this 38-yard field goal or do we Try to run the clock out, or, you know, what do we do here? Um, and the data is going to say kick the field goal, but the coach is sitting there saying, my field goal kicker missed 2 field goals already. It's a blizzard out here. We can't kick this field goal. Well, that's, that's, that's the coach using his gut instinct and looking what's really happening in real time versus just what the data says. So number 2 is strategy.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, number 3 is Uh, gotta set the— they've got to get the right people on the team at the executive level. Number 4 is they've got to set the right culture of execution and learning. And number 5, they got to be active in the ecosystem. So cash, strategy, the team, the culture, and, you know, you got to really be around that ecosystem, understand what's happening in the marketplace.

I want to talk about number 3, right people. What if What if, I don't know, 2 years into it, you realize that maybe one of your core team members isn't the right person for whatever reason? Perhaps they're well-liked by everybody else and all the rest of it, but the reality is they're just not great at marketing or sales or whatever their role is, right?

Yeah.

What do you do in those situations?

You have to make a change immediately. And if you don't, you can't get the time back that you didn't execute that decision.

Mm-hmm.

Okay? And so if that sentence makes sense, it didn't come out right, but it's, you gotta move quickly. You can totally ask yourself, like, have they been trained properly? Are they in the right position? Those are legitimate questions, you know? And if the answer is, you know, Yeah, they're the right person, but they're in the wrong position, then you make a change, an adjustment there if the person wants it. But if you've got a— A players produce, there's a million studies out there. Some people will say, Steve Jobs would say it's 100x what an A player will do versus a B- or a C player. And so you've gotta make sure you've got A players in the right positions that you need 'em.

Yeah, yeah.

It's freaking hard too, Ron, man.

Oh yeah. Well, yeah, 'cause there's stories behind every person and families and all the rest of it, right? It's a— yeah, that's why being a leader is very difficult sometimes.

But listen, if you have a leader in your organization that's not performing and you've gone through the process of like, I've trained them, coached them, they're in the right seat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, then they're probably not happy either, right? If they're— if they're— if you're running a framework of accountability in your system, which goes back to why there's a gap, you know, the gap between strategy and results is always— is always accountability in some way. Whether it's measuring the right things, having performance management, what it is, whatever it is. But if you have a good framework of accountability, that means that performance is visible within the organization.

Mm-hmm.

And if you're really running your business at a cadence, if you're really running your business to scale and you're meeting with each team in the organization is meeting every single month and reviewing the goals that each person sets.

Mm-hmm.

Performance is visible and the person that's not performing or hitting their goals, they're not gonna be comfortable working there.

Yeah.

They're probably gonna self-select out. That's the beauty of putting accountability and measurement in your business.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. I want to talk a little bit about operating rhythm specifically. You know, there's lots of companies, most companies, and especially people listening to this podcast, we're all about systems and management systems and—

Yeah, sure. That's a good point.

Operational excellence and all the rest of it. But, you know, one of the things that can happen is I don't know, goal setting and, you know, maybe review processes and things like that might not be completely dialed in. So, like, what are the sort of the ramifications of that when that's the case?

It's pretty clear. Priorities drift, performance slips, and you create that gap that we talked about in the beginning between where you want to go and where you actually end up. And there's only probably You know, I like to say there's, you know, at the basic level, 3 steps you need to make sure you're taking in any business. You know, number one, you have to make sure we have— we— I speak, you know, I wasn't doing this. The re— earlier in the podcast I said, hey, I brought that company MAP in, which now I own, um, because I wasn't good at anything that had to do with putting a process in place to grow a company through people.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the, that's the part that people Miss, but there's three things you really need to do. Number one is, as a company, we need to make sure we're measuring the right things. I call those things vital factors. So back to the Pareto principle that I mentioned earlier, it's what are the twenty percent of of the activities? What are the twenty percent of the measure of the things that we're measuring at the executive level that drive eighty percent of the results? And we apply that same principle to every department in the company. So every department in the company is looking at their. 20%, what's vital to them and moving the needle in their area. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, well, back to the first thing. The first thing, besides measuring the right things, there has to be an owner on each one of those things.

Mm-hmm.

That allows you to do number 2, which is every person in the organization goal sets against what they own. And hopefully they only own 3 to 5 things and they're goal setting against maybe 1 to 3 of them per month. So we're measuring the right things, they're assigned to the right person, those people are goal setting every month. And here's the most important piece, and this is, Ron, where most companies fall down. You have to have an operating rhythm or cadence to review performance. And I don't mean those boring one-to-one review meetings. No, no, no. Every team, every department gets together once a month with a set agenda where they review what's working in the business, you know, what's not working, how do the numbers look. How did everybody do on their goals? What are the new goals and where are we stuck? And we have a really cool kind of, not Lean Sigma, but a nice 10-minute process to problem solve, to create action. So that's that moment every month at every department where everybody's reviewing their goals, seeing how they're performing, seeing how the team is doing, seeing how the company's doing, and just getting it all on the table and having a real meeting about the business. If we, if you do that 12 times a year, Mm-hmm. Oh, Some companies try to do it 4 times a year on a quarterly basis. And as you and I both know, you can't scale a business by taking 90 days before you review performance. Every month is a compounding effect. It's unbelievably effective and simple.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've even seen some organizations do it even more frequently. Some people would say waiting to the end of the month is like driving a car and looking in the rearview mirror, you know, like, are we winning or are we losing, like, on almost on a daily basis. Depending on their organization, right?

No, I, I, you, Ryan, it's a great point. Monthly is a great time, that those 12 pulses a month is a great time to look at the business. And sometimes, and you can see a complete period, because a week, a day and a week are too short of a timeframe to evaluate whether what you're working on is, is actually working. So that's the rhythm we like. But to your point, Every sharp business these days is looking at— there's probably 3 or 4 numbers they're looking at every day. There might be a little bit of a subset, maybe 5 or 6 they're looking at every week.

Well, yes. For example, like if you're in a sales organization, you have a call center, it's like, exactly, how many calls did you make yesterday, right? And how many people did you talk to? These are leading indicators, right? And yeah, the sales will hopefully come by the end of the month, but if you're not on smiling and dialing, we're not going to make any money, right?

You know, Ron, as long— and once you start to understand the concept of measuring the right things and you get into a rhythm with that, what's going to happen next is you're going to start measuring them differently.

Yeah.

Which are more effective, or you're going to find new things to measure. So to your point, there's some productivity metrics in operations, whether it be on-time delivery, calls, you know, call resolution time. You can look at those every single day. And of course, leading indicators in sales and marketing all day long. You better be looking at those every day. You're right. So yeah, those you can, and then you look at the bigger subset.

Yeah, yeah.

In fact, I would argue that a lot of times on the weekly basis, on the daily and weekly, you're looking at activity-based measurements. Okay. Because they're real-time data, day to day. When you get to the end of the month, you're probably looking at what was the result we were driving towards.

For sure.

And then, and then you've already gone deeper. And if you have questions about a metric, you can always go down into marketing or sales and look at their data, which will tell you more of the reasons behind it.

Yep, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of like a game. At the end of the game, did we win or lose?

Right?

Like, during the game, it's like, hey man, that left defensive end is killing us. We gotta get an extra blocker on him, you know?

So, you know what, it's a really great point because my guess is that there's 4 quarters and that at the end of every quarter, I mean, constantly there's somebody looking at what's going on in the game and, and looking at whatever efficiency ratios they need to look and be like, we're getting crushed here. Like you said, I like the way you said that, by the way, you know, Ron, I never really like the way that, that conversation led me to, to think about like how, what on a daily basis you are looking at more of the leading indicators to the results that you're trying to get to because those are the activities.

That's right.

That you have to stay on.

Yep.

And even in our business, we just recently made a shift where there's, you know, we were having weekly huddles with the sales team and I'm like, why are we doing weekly? Like, we should be doing daily, daily huddles.

Whatever.

What's everybody doing today? And did you achieve what you needed to do yesterday? Right. It sounds like micromanagement, but that's how you got to run sales sometimes.

Well, and it's just like, what help do you need? You know? And, you know.

Yeah, totally.

And sales, an example is that's a, that's a hard job, man. You know, you get told no 99 times and then you get the one yes and you're like, yes, let's go. And you can, you know, share those wins and, and struggles, right?

That's a really, yeah, that's a great point. Yep.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Awesome. Hey, so let's talk a little bit about, say you're CEO and you got a strategy problem or an execution problem. So I'm wondering, like, what is the difference in your mind between sort of a strategy issue and an execution issue? How does a CEO sort of look at that? Not even just a CEO, like any leader of an organization, How can you discern the difference?

You know, I think, I mean, they're obviously closely linked. My friends and I fight all the time. I got some friends that are like, it's all about strategy. And then you got a guy like me that's like, it's all about execution. But you gotta have both. And the difference is execution we talked about, that's the performance management of the goal setting and the activities that are driving towards the vision of the company, driving towards the larger goals. you know, of the business or driving towards the strategy. Strategy, which people use that word loosely sometimes, strategy is very specific. It's the position you have in the marketplace, which means strategy is about the choices you make. And these are more, they're not set in stone, but they're not changing as much as perhaps some of the activities you're doing on the execution side. So strategy comes down to like, who's your customer? What's the value we're going to deliver? What are the core capabilities that we need to have in order to execute? What's our channel? You know, what's our go-to-market or distribution channel? Those 4 questions are— and I love the book Play to Win by A.G. Lafley, and that's a lot of where I base some of this on. But strategies is— those are a set of choices you need to make, 4 to 5 choices. And so that's the difference between strategy and execution. But you can be sitting there executing and be like, this isn't working. This isn't working. You know, we're not driving the top line, we're not driving— and then you might be like, are we focused on the right customer? What have we learned through our execution process? Well, we've learned that, you know, the clients that are spending this much in this range are probably the ones— or the ones that are doing this much revenue are probably the ones that we want to work with. And we've realized that the ones that are in this sector are the ones that are willing to pay and spend more money with us. So based on execution, you start to learn, and it could tweak your strategy slightly.

Yeah. Hey, um, so we've got our cameras on obviously here while we're, we're talking, which is an audio-only podcast, so people aren't actually seeing us, but, um, but I can see you right now. And, uh, you got an interesting t-shirt on. It says discipline. I'm wondering what's that mean? What's that word mean to you?

Wow. Well, my initial answer was, you know, It's doing what needs to get done on a day-to-day basis systematically. It's doing the things that you know you need to do that you don't wanna do. But to me, it's more about the rhythm of things.

Hmm.

So it's a rhythm of like, in a workout setting, it's, you've got, you know, you're in a rhythm where you're going rain or shine, good or bad day, you're going your 5 times a week. When you go, you're doing what you need to do. It could be the, you know, it could be that rhythm of how you eat, when you eat. It could be that rhythm of how your morning starts And what you work on first. But from a business perspective, discipline to me means, are— what I said earlier, are you measuring the right things and reviewing the performance of those things on a regular, regular basis?

Mm-hmm.

To where— to the point where that meeting I talked about that every team runs in a company on a monthly basis around goal setting, that meeting does not get moved. It's scheduled. It's the same time every month. People plan vacations around it. Because that is the most important meeting. And when I think of discipline, that's what I mean.

Love it, love it. So maybe to wrap things up, I wanna close with a thought or a question. Let's say there's a leader listening right now, leader of people, and for whatever reason, their company or their team or however it was, it just isn't executing at the level that they hope it to be or they need it to be. Speak to that person. What are the first 2 or 3 things that you would encourage them to, to look at, to change, to experiment with, whatever it might be?

I love that you ask these good questions. Generally, that person, which is the CEO or the founder, uh, needs to look in the mirror and, and realize that the reason we don't have accountability in our business is because of me. Because it always starts at the top. You know, I can go back to my story. When I was— when I realized that we needed help in our business, I, you know, I went to this MAP workshop not knowing— by the way, MAP is the current company I have, uh, and we do a 2.5-day workshop for 2 classes every single month in Newport Beach. And it's about the meat and potatoes, the fundamentals of management.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And I went to that workshop and I started to get the toolkit that I needed. And so, That's what I did. And then I brought a coach in that worked with— that ran that monthly meeting for me every month for 15 years with my executive team, because I was the entrepreneur that couldn't— I wasn't going to be able to implement the accountability. So the first thing I would do is I would look at— look in the mirror and say, am I ready for this? Am I ready to commit to what it's going to take to grow this business? Am I ready to commit to measuring the right things, holding people accountable? Because if I'm willing to do that, that means that the talent I recruit and the talent that I retain are going to be at a top level, because A-players want And they want to be involved in that culture. So once I made that commitment, then I would figure out, okay, number— so I want to do that. Number 2, I'd say, what system do I want to run in my business for accountability? What's the operating, you know, platform that I want for accountability? Some people call that a management system, some people call that an accountability system, but I think about what system do I want to implement, and MAP is one of those systems. And then the third thing I would do after I chose that company is I personally, you have to make the decision whether you're gonna try to implement yourself or you're gonna bring a coach in to help you. So look in the mirror, choose a system you wanna use in your business, and then make the decision whether you wanna coach or whether you wanna do it yourself. And it's pretty hard to do it yourself because we're thinking about, we're trying to drive the business forward and we've got a team we're managing. And it's, it's a process to implement. It doesn't have to be complicated, but, you know, you— it's good to have somebody leading it.

Love it.

Never been asked that question. That's a good question.

Awesome. Well, hey man, this has been a, been a fun conversation, Michael. I don't— do you have any sort of, I don't know, final words of wisdom or some parting thoughts that you, uh, you want to leave with the folks?

If you, uh— I just— this is actually a book that's coming out. It's not a full published book, it's more of a More of a self-published, uh, I mean, we have a publisher, you know, and it's a kind of a workbook on how to create, you know, a process to put accountability in your book and your business. So if anybody's interested, you know, they can reach out to me.

What's it called?

Through the podcast, it's called, uh, Discipline: The MAP Management System and the Art of Unstoppable Execution.

Okay.

And it's a, it's a, it's a workbook for people with stories, but yet exercises for people to do.

Okay.

To help them get started on that last question you just asked me about, you know, what to do when you know you need accountability.

So, uh, awesome.

Happy to share that. Very good. And, uh, but anyways, besides that, just great to be on here with you, Ron.

Yeah, man, this has been a lot of fun. I appreciate you. All right.

Absolutely.

All right, well, go enjoy that, uh, beautiful weather you got out there. Probably.

It's a heat wave. It's gonna be 95 today.

Yeah, yeah, we're baking down here in Texas. We're actually, uh, people are listening to this right now, like, uh, we're We're many, many, many weeks ahead on the podcast, so what we're recording now won't be released for another couple months. So it could be radically different by the time this one comes out, but it's super hot right now.

And well, we're in the middle of August.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So all right. Well, hey man, thanks for being mine. Take care.

Pleasure. Bye bye.

Thanks for joining us today. We know the path to continuous improvement can be challenging to walk alone. That's why get. Academy exists, not just to provide training, but to be your partner in problem solving. Whether you're just taking your first steps or leading a global transformation, our goal is to help you bridge the gap between knowing and doing. Beyond our library of Lean and Six Sigma resources, we're here to coach and guide you through your journey, whether that's through personalized support or joining us for a live training to get that immersive. Hands-on experience. To learn more, go to gembaacademy.com.