Ep #19: How Marketing Isn't Like Vegas

Today on the Advisor Summit, we have the privilege of speaking with Mark Gaffney. Mark serves as the founder and president of meg, a boutique marketing and advertising firm that works exclusively with financial advisors. He has mentored, consulted and trained thousands of financial professionals across the U.S. shaping the industry's leading talents. Mark has collaborated with financial entrepreneurs at every stage of business growth, from innovative startups to multi billion dollar enterprises. He is a distinguished author recognized for his thought leadership and expertise. He also hosts Retirement this Week, a widely broadcast program featured nationally on several TV channels. With over 30 years of celebrated marketing experience, his diverse expertise encompasses event marketing, television and radio production, targeted direct mail campaigns, copyright, database marketing, brand development, and strategic coaching. Please welcome Mark Gaffney. Hi Mark. Welcome to the Advisor Summit. We're so excited to have you.

Molly, it is great to be here.

Oh, this is probably good. I say this every time, so I guess that's unfair to say, but I love the concept of marketing and learning about marketing and so this topic is really special to my heart and I think it will actually bless a lot of advisors to have freedom in marketing and kind of get some guidance around that. And specifically, I mean, you've been in this industry for some time now and that's a great thing because we can really pick your brain and get some knowledge about it. So.

And if I can go one step further, you know, I adore your company. I remember when you guys first came around. We have a very similar inception story. The founder of your company and myself. And these are what you do and what I do are hand in glove. They are, they are. They have to be with each other. And as we will talk about, Molly, I'm sure here in a little bit, but you work with a lot of America's top advisors, so do we. You know, I kind of like to say our client list reads like a who's who of advisors. Yours certainly is. And there, there's a. I hope for people watching today or listening that they'll grab hold of this because there's going to be great stuff here today in particular for those advisors that are in growth mode.

Growth is huge. And that's. I'm so glad you touched on that. And I think that's where a lot of the advisors that come to your company or even ours are in that mode. They're typically growing, they're typically wanting to try something and that's where marketing can just be the elevation that they need and really get them to that next step. So kind of walk us through what inspired you to kind of build a full service marketing. I know you mentioned, you know, origin stories are very similar, but walk us through kind of your passion for this and how you got into helping advisors.

Yeah, so I gotta go a little ways back to 1994, where I got my start in the marketing and advertising world in Manhattan on Madison Avenue, and the great row there of marketing and advertising companies. The company was called Reuben H. Donnelly, and at that time they were a Fortune 100 advertising and publishing behemoth. And as I like to say, that's where I made my bones. And then it took me through several industries. In 2002, I landed in the marketing and advertising world, in the mortgage world. And what a great time that was to be in mortgages, in particular subprime. I'll fast forward. We all know what happened in 2007. And then I started working for a company out of Tampa called RME Now Leading response. And I spent two great years there under the tutelage of George Villar. And that really became the. The crown jewel, Molly, from my advisor experience, and I didn't really know it yet. I mean, I had been involved in traditional marketing and advertising forever. So 2008, I started working with financial advisors again. I'll do a synopsis here. My largest advisor that they had at the time, I was helping him so far beyond targeted direct mail and seminars with radio and television and outdoor and database marketing. And he made me a beautiful offer to leave Tampa, Florida and move to Louisville, Kentucky, where I spent four years with him and helped his firm grow from 8 million total assets gathered in a calendar year to 48 million. And then thus the vision. This was 2013. And I said, geez, if I can do this for one advisor, I can do it for many. And that was the impetus for getting this started in 2013. And it's been a blessed ride, Molly, a truly blessed ride.

Are you still friends with that advisor now? My curiosity is.

We have part ways a long time ago. I'm actually funny enough working with people that have spun off from his company that I worked with back then. But no, no, I don't have any contact with him any longer.

Oh, no, all good. I think that's huge though. I think when you find what you're good at and what your niche is, that is so powerful. Because now it's like, gosh, you can help thousands of advisors by the benefit of doing it for one advisor. And it's. I mean, it's huge. And I think a lot of those early experiences with those advisors probably shaped some of the core values that you now have at your firm. Kind of walk us through, you know what those are, what are your core values? Kind your mission of Meg and how you help advisors.

Yeah. So I always like to say mission before profit. Right. Because it is utterly important to discover what it is that the advisory firm is looking to achieve. And one of the things that we pride ourselves with is that we create a custom package for you. Meaning we're not just a TV company, we're not just a radio company, we're not just a targeted direct mail company. We do it all. So we have the ability to see your beautiful new home project. Right. We'll contact the roofer, we'll create the this and that.

I love that analogy. That's amazing.

It's really true. So I, I venture to say, Molly, and having been around the block, that we are the only independent. And I have to underline independent, meaning not owned by an fmo, imo, BD ria, the only independent full service advisor marketing company out there. We do it all. If it's in the world of financial advisor marketing, we do it. And if we don't do it under our roof, we have very close strategic partners that we white label so we can give our clients whatever it is that they're looking for based on their goals. So we're never going to be, you know, it's sort of like if, if I go to a Ford dealership and I tell them I want a Chevy, they're going to be like, ah, we don't do Chevy here, we do Ford. But I asked for a Ford, they got a Ford, they got a Chevy, they got a BMW, they got a Mercedes. So we're more like that.

Exactly. And I think it's true too. Like, I think I just to touch on, you said everyone has different goals also. So some people might not need the Ferrari. They might want, you know, more of a utility type style office. And that's really important to know the mission of the client. I mean, we say that all the time. We have something for everybody, but not everything for everyone. So it's very specific. What is your mission? And we get that too. It's like, well, should you do marketing? And I'm sure you get this question, well, should I do tv? Should I do dinner seminars? You know, should I do digital leads? What's, what should I do? And it always comes back to what's your goal? What's your budget? What's your mission? What's your purpose? Like, let's talk about the bigger picture.

Of that any better? Because I think that a lot of times it's. And you've experienced this, I'm sure there's a lot of mud being thrown up against the wall.

Yes.

There's no, like, specific pathway GPS roadmap, blueprint as to what it is that you're looking to achieve. So you're kind of grasping for straws simply because you're a very good financial advisory firm. But that in no way, shape or form insinuates that you're a good marketing organization. And I'll share with you sage counsel from one of the first advisors I worked with way back when, and he was number one on the leaderboard at that particular fmo. And I was in his office. And I'll just give you a little of his background story. He was a retired attorney from old High.

Love it.

This was the type of attorney that you see on the billboards, you see on tv. He's like, I did it. I made my money. I'm out. I'm going to Florida. And we got bored out of his mind. As entrepreneurs do. Entrepreneurs cannot retire. They are busy. They must have a goal. They're a dog with a bone. So he knew all about marketing, got licensed, and immediately escalated to the top of the leaderboard of a significant fmo. Big fmo. And so he was always in. Here. He is. He's at that time when I was working with him, he's like 70 or 71. And so as soon as I started working for this fmo, he invited me down, and I'm sitting there with him, and he was kind of a curmudgeon, you know, And I'm talking to him, Molly, and he says, remark. Let me tell you something about this business. He goes, first and foremost, you got to be a marketing organization. And second, the damn fine financial services.

Yeah, right.

I'm like, that's exactly right. And I try to get those words of wisdom to other financial advisors. Why, Molly? Because marketing is the tip of the spear. Admin, operations, sales, marketing. Unless you're out there marketing your company, you are the proverbial store in the desert.

Yeah. Yeah. You could have the greatest products in the world, but if nobody knows about you, it's not gonna work. Yep.

So that would be the kind of the origins and the visions. And I've been around the block long enough now that, you know, there's a few things that we look for in advisors to work with because, you know, I think I told you this early on. We were together in the beginning my first year Right. Is this thing gonna get on the ground? My favorite client was someone who could fog a mirror and scratch a check. Those are my new favorite client. Baby, I love you, but it's not that way anymore now that you got to have some pieces in place for us to work well, so, you know, you've got to be. There's a, you know, a few important things for us. One is growth mode. Yeah.

Mindset.

Coachable. Okay. You have to understand that marketing is an investment, not an expenditure. And then the last piece. Molly, are you ready?

Yes. I'm on the edge of my seat. Tell me more.

You got to be a nice person.

I love that. I always say that, though. I want to do business, and I want to do life with people that I enjoy. And I would say the same for any vendor that, like, we work with or any, you know, any business that we come into contact with. And what's so joyous, Mark, is truly the business that we're in does have so many good people. There is no lack of good people out there in the financial industry.

It's so amazing, isn't it, Molly?

Oh, so incredible.

Majority of people that cross paths with are really good people, and thank God for that, because in this industry, there is such the potential for funny business. And I'm utterly thankful that my paths have crossed with such wonderful human beings.

Yeah. And I think it's important, too. I mean, just from a business perspective, I always say. I read this amazing book, and it was about how reputation is so critical, especially in our business. I see it all the time. It's your reputation is your forefront, and it's what people see about you. And, yes, that can get so skewed by people that don't really know you. But at the core, people know who you are, and they should be able to recognize that quickly. And I think it's huge. But I love that you kind of have some universal things that you look for when you're getting clients. It's not always just about, you know, who can sign the check. And I think that's important for any business perspective, not just financial advisors. Like, know your client, know what you want, know your avatar. And whether that's, you know, specific points or it is more broader. Like, I want them to be nice people. Like, I don't think that's a bad thing. Especially that's the joy of owning your own business. You're allowed to kind of pick and choose who you want to work with. So especially, I mean, you're so established now. It's a Lot different than I think.

It's a natural evolution for a business, right?

Yeah.

You know, I remember from my business classes in college, I don't remember a lot of it, but there's one thing that I do remember speaking class about corporations, that the primary function of the corporation is survival. That is the primary function. And so you build off of survival. That's like the very bottom of the pyramid. You have to survive first, and then you can start growing and morphing into this beautiful company that you will potentially become in the future. Yeah, that's what we do, Molly. That's what we do.

Tell them where to find you. Go to LinkedIn. No, I'm kidding.

Can I throw a rose your direction? I mean, if people don't have this study because I want to. It was so validating for me and you know, you and I got in a huge conversation about data. And by the way, take a moment, let's talk about this. The nation's 2024 data journey. I look at this as the preeminent study on what advisors should be doing with marketing. Okay, 90 advisors, a whole lot of production, average Advisor size over 50 million. For those people out there that haven't taken a look at this to say what should I be doing? Because I believe you model success. Do not reinvent the wheel here. And that's what we tell our best practices. Data driven best practices come from other advisors. So I love that study and it was so validating for me because we'll have a limited portion of our clients that will share all their data with us. Not all. They keep their cards close to the best. Come on, you got to tell us how you're doing. They're like, oh, we're doing fine. I know, I know you're doing fine. But share the numbers your world, you get all the numbers. Like all the numbers. And by the way, one of the piece and we don't have it on here as a question, but I think if there's a writing takeaway for any advisory firm or advisor watching today, it's this. My biggest advisors and I'm talking over 20 million, over 50 million, over 100 million. They are not just trackers, Molly, they're hyper trackers. They know their numbers in real time or as close to real time as possible. And this has been a foundational element in their success. Knowing their numbers. Yeah, getting away from the wing it world.

Getting and I would say understanding their numbers on top of that, like, yes, they know what it is, but then they know how to pivot and they know how to move and they know how to switch their, the dial on and off. And I just, I so appreciate your perspective. And I think that's where we really connected on that, is that you do have to know your numbers, and that is what we've seen across the board.

I'll go one step further on that because how can I innovate as a company if I don't know my numbers? There's. There. Not knowing the numbers means an absence of innovation. So if you're planning to grow, you can't grow without knowing your numbers. Yeah, the exciting part of marketing. Sorry, Molly, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Exciting, like all this other stuff's exciting, but tracking the numbers is a little laborious. But it's, it's essential.

It is. And it is. I always say, like, but we're the company that takes the boring on, so we love the boring. We will, I mean, quote, unquote, boring, exciting, fun. It is fun. And data can. But I love, I think the fun of it is once you do have your numbers, you can make decisions and we watch you grow from these, you know, 10, 20 million companies to over 100 million just because. Not just because you know your numbers. There's a lot that goes into it. Your processes, your employees. You have the right people, but you're able to turn the dial because you know what's working and you know what's not working. And that's, I mean, I even find that sometimes people are more insightful and more excited to know what's not working because now they're not wasting money on something that isn't doing good and they can spend that money on something that is. And it's just, it's super powerful. And I think that's a great segue because we talked a lot in the 2024 Nation data story about seminars. And I know seminars have been the bread and butter for a really long time. And I consistently hear, oh, seminars are, you know, not doing so great and not, you know, this, this and this and negativity towards seminars. And every year we publish this study and it's. Seminars are the positive. They're still the bread and butter. It's still, still what people want and people do. So you kind of took that even further and kind of have a three phrase method and model that I loved. It was the pregame, game day and post game. And as a college athlete, this so spoke to me because I'm like, okay, let's game it out. You know, I was like, yes, I'M all about this model. So kind of walk us through how that system sets advisors up for success and how you kind of came with that model and how it's been useful for people.

Yeah. First of all, after you said that and the church said amen. Right. So this is critical because there are three engines to successful seminar production. And I think the. The thought process, for better or for worse in the beginning with some advisors is I'm going to put ink on paper, stamp, send it out. People are going to come, I'm going to get appointments, and they're going to do business with me. And there's nothing further from the truth than what I just said there. Nothing further. Seminars and whether that's a college class, a dinner seminar, a singular topic seminar at a public library, whatever it's going to be, are sophisticated marketing campaigns. And so that's the first thing that I try to get across to everyone, that if it was so simple, everyone would do it. Everyone would make money, and there'd be no commentary ever about, oh, seminars, this, that, and the other thing. First of all, I love the fact that number one, and I break your marketing Molly out into two distinct segments. Okay. And I do this with my clients. There's general public marketing. Right. We're going for new blood in the general public. And then there's database management marketing, which are all the pieces of my clients and my prospects and my database. And then we'll talk about that when we talk about database. So I'm going to talk about general public marketing right now. New blood into the business. Correct me if I'm wrong. Based on your study, is there anything better than live events?

I'm not as consistent and not as budget friendly. Yes, there are other things, but you have to have a big purse string for the tv, you know, that side. But yes, I'm a firm fam. I always say the studies show. Seminars, Seminar. Seminars, seminars. Just go for it. There's positive and it's so consistent year over year, and you just got to do it. And I hope that gives advisors, like, permission and just like almost a blessing to say. Just go for it. And that's a lot harder. Yeah, it's like how you're gonna learn. You're gonna learn how to begin it.

Hopefully they get some coaching before they go out there. So back to the three pieces. Pregame. Filling our chairs with as many qualified prospects as possible. Game day. That's where we make our money. We drive for show and we putt for dough, baby, and gain. Where we make our Money. In other words, I have to maximize the number of appointments from the households present that night or that afternoon, not the next day, not two days later, not three days later. I need to do what we refer to as a funnel sale. Okay. And at the very bottom of that funnel sale is this box which simply states it's counterintuitive to say no to. To the host. Have I done all the things necessary to remove the handcuffs people so that they check yes on the response sheet. And then the third part is post game. If they sign up, they need to show up. What are we doing from such time as they check yes on the response sheet until such time as they show up in the office. If I can get an advisor to get all three of these pieces firing on eight cylinders, sky is the limit. And I know looking at your study, you have advisors that are doing an assets gathered per singular event. 500,000, 600,700. You probably have some over a million dollars of assets gathered from a singular afternoon or evening. So we try to get to. We love the term master. Okay. Seminar mastery and becoming masterful in it. Because I would make the argument for any Advisor that's under 20 million in assets gathered. And I say assets gathered because, as you know, Molly, talking to a lot of advisors, some of them speak in revenue.

Yeah. Yes.

I'm only going to speak in production because you may be heavy, Aum. You may be heavy insurance. So I'm. But I believe that every single advisor, singular advisor, can be a $20 million advisor. They just haven't connected the dots yet. What are the things that I need to do? But the fastest way to get there is to become masterful in the seminar world. The whole world of live events. One too many in a room and then a, you know, a gaggle of appointments at the end to start working. Nothing. Nothing out there works like that. I'd make an argument if you have the budget, you could do with television, perhaps radio, but. But live events. Nothing like it.

We're so aligned in that I always say start. Start with seminars. I mean, we were laughing. We were at the Verizon store this past weekend, phones. And I met a financial advisor. And we were just, you know, of course, started chatting because you know me, I'm going to talk to everybody. And we. He was just like, gosh, I'm just so skeptical to do seminars. And I'm like, that should be the first place you start after referrals and database, which we'll talk about next, of course, because that's going to Be much more, you know, lucrative in the sense that it's quicker. Closes. Not as expensive, but live events are for sure. The P2 go. But I love that you said to. You have to have a plan. Plan. You can't just lick the envelope, stick the, you know, stamp on it, and pray that it works.

And you gotta go from best practices. You can't wing it like, this feels good to me. And a lot of entrepreneurs are like, my gut tells me this. I'm like, with all due respect, forgive me. Forget your gut. This is what tells us to do. And Molly, marketing is like going to Las Vegas. It is there. There is an element of risk. Okay. There just simply is my job. My job is to mitigate your risk by sharing with you that these are best practices. For example, okay, I'm playing blackjack. The dealer has a six and a down card. I have a three and a 10. I have 13. What do I do? I hold.

Yes. Yeah.

The majority of the time. No different than marketing. I make sure that you know what you're supposed to do to mitigate potential risks so that you love your marketing because it's bringing you what you need to be successful. So one other quick story. Am I talking?

Yeah, I'm ready. No, not at all. This is the whole thing. It's always informative. I love it.

I also have to remind advisors, it's our job to bring them to your door, but once they step in your door, you got to bring them home, Daddy. That's your job there.

That's on you, bro.

Yeah. You know, I think there are two things that plague advisory firms in the vast scheme of things. One is they have a great story to tell, but not enough people to tell it to leads. And perhaps they need some assistance in taking a prospect through the pipe to the finish line. Sales. So, you know, we don't. We help a little bit in the sales world. I'm not a licensed advisor, but there are foundational elements of good sales that we can assist with. But you. You've got to keep that book filled with first appointments. And. And. And I'll tell you the main reason for it. Imagine if you will. You've got this month. I'll speak to you like you're a financial advisor. You've got four first appointments on the books. You know, you gotta. You gotta bring that home because you only have four. You don't sell well. You kind of get a little desperate. There's an. There's an air of desperation. Now imagine that you had 24 first appointments on the books. You now get to a confidence level. Okay. And you start to tell prospect prospective clients what they need. I'm not selling anything because I know that once you leave, I have another one coming in, then another one coming in, then another one. And confidence and leadership when you're in there. Marketing builds confidence and leadership because you have tons of appointments on your books as opposed to the four appointments on the books. There's a saying in sales, Molly, that is the worst smelling cologne is desperation.

Yeah.

Like when you're like, oh, well, you know, maybe if you come on and work with me, maybe, and maybe that'll be good, blah, blah, blah, yeah, I can help you.

Yeah, I think that's so true. And it gives them again, the freedom to be themselves because you don't have that. I have to close this in order to run my business. And you're not in survival mode because survival mode will make you do whatever it takes to get it done, versus in an abundance mode, you get to kind of be a little bit more who you are, a little bit more authentic. Because you're not, like you said, you're not selling. At that point, you're telling them how you're able to help them whether they want it or not. And then it's up to them. So I love that. I think that's huge. And I think it's also. And that again will also lead to more referrals because they know you, they've had this authenticity from you and they are able to then refer to other people. So I mean, connection is huge in this world. I think consistent communication is huge in this world. And you kind of talk about four ways to produce revenue through that connection and consistency within kind of that referral database kind of market. Can you kind of walk us through those four ways and kind of how you assist in that aspect?

Sure. So for us, it's five ways. And I'll get into that. They're closely interlinked. And so when I'm putting together a plan for an advisor, I'm going to make something up. Right now this advisor wants to get to 20 million. Okay. They're at 12 million. So we have to grow by 8. So when I get up on the whiteboard and we for all of our clients, we build their marketing plan in their conference room with them on the whiteboard. We don't just come in and say, here's your plan. We want this to be collaborative. And by the end of this exercise of writing and erasing, you're nodding your head. I'm Nodding my head. So what we'll do, right on the whiteboard, I put 20 million at the top. I put two lines off that 20 million. I have general public marketing and database management marketing. So they'll go to the database management marketing side. Right now, five areas that we talk about. Formal referral strategy. Okay? And it's amazing to me how many advisors I talk to that don't have a strategy now. They have organic referrals because they're a good firm. All right? But the, the key component, and I'll, I'll come back to this, is if you don't train your, your clients to become ambassadors for your company, even though they love you, they may not refer you because you haven't taught them how. I'm going to come back to that. The second one is, are you conducting annual reviews? And then I'll ask, well, how robust are your annual reviews? Are you a historian or are you putting together actionable plans for them there? Okay, annual reviews then. Here's a key. $1 between reviews. John and Mary came in three months ago for their annual review. Guess what just happened? Until he passed away, left them $500,000. I tell that advisor, I say point blank, are you the first phone call when that $500,000 check comes in the mail? And I hear, oh, of course I'm going to be that first phone call, Mark. I go, are you or Maserati dealership? Are they going to go to the. Or even worse, Molly, they're going to get an invitation in the mail to go see ABC Financial down at Ruth's. Chris. Okay? And they're probably, oh, John's got all my money. I'm going to go check out ABC Financial. So what we talk about is those are big dollars and they happen. Okay? How are we maintaining top of mind awareness in our database with our clients? And there's six ways that we do that. I won't get into that today, but we need to touch our clients a hundred times during the year through a multiple. Not just email. Not just email, through a whole bunch of different things. So it's live, okay? It's video, it's phone, it's mailbox, it's email, it's digital and social media. Nice, roundabout way that we can, you know, touch them 100 times. And I say, advisors, don't let that freak you out, okay? Because you might be doing 20 some odd touches, but maybe in the next year we take 24 to 35 touches. You've, you've increased what you're doing. Okay? And Then the last two are about prospects. So for the first one, there is prospect nurturing. And let me define prospect here. Prospect is someone I've sat across the conference room table with. And they said, john, Susan, I want what you just said and put together for me. However, I'm not retiring for a year. My wife's not for 18 months. Money's tied up for nine months. What are you going to do? You have a hot prospect. And I say, okay, let's say they're going to be out for a year. What are you going to do? Because if you're not going to touch them right away, I'll give you a little bit of data here. 72 hours after a presentation, the retention piece is 10%. So that our presentation that you gave to someone in your office to come work with you three days later, they remember 10%. I'd make the argument that in one month they don't remember your name, the name of your firm, nothing. So these things have to start immediately. Okay. From that point so that you are nurturing, and that's what we call it, prospect, nurturing that client all the way through the process until such time as they are ready. And then the last piece is lead management. By virtue of doing marketing, you create leads. Now, not a lot of those will pop, but a little bit of work with those and you'll get some of those.

Yeah, yeah. And these are huge. And again, like we said, it's, it's that retention is so critical. And we said too, if you are, we do a bandwidth check of how many days between appointments do you often have and especially post seminar. And we found that if you can't get them within 10 to 15 business days to that appointment, oftentimes they will not come in or they will reschedule a bunch of times or they'll cancel because they're not interested anymore. They don't remember why they were, you know, so interested initially and so captivated. And it's just huge, like critical, critical, critical point is to get your timing correct and get it moving quickly so that you can be sure you have captured that audience in a good way.

I agree. I'll throw one little piece in there that I think is really important to this equation of expediting people back in. Okay. And not waiting long. Those advisors that are really busy and they have to have advisors potentially wait or have to prospects wait a little bit longer. They're all about creating an experience for those people. Okay. So they might not remember everything you said, but they remembered they experienced you well, okay. And because of that experience and they remember how they felt, that they're a lot more connected to you through the process. And that's important from, you know, from first impression, creating experience all the way up through whatever campaign it is, first, first appointment, second appointment, third appointment, and that experience, we can help you as a marketing company create that. That feeling, that experience that you had. Because, you know, and I'll use a hyperbolic example here. When I live 90 minutes from Orlando, I'm in Tampa, Florida. When I go to Disney, I'm on my cloud nine for three or four days after. Well, they just know how to do it. There's.

Yeah, yeah.

Every ride I went on or what I ate or I don't. But I just remember that I'm like.

I was joyous the whole time.

At the advisory level, we can create that experience with prospects and clients, and that makes us more referable. That makes us, you know, makes that whole process in the pipeline from introduction to checking hand, a lot easier.

Yeah, and I've seen that. I mean, it's funny. It's like, be the Disneyland advisor. Make it. Enjoy Disney World, you know, make it enjoyable for them. And we've seen that with so many advisors. They're like, gosh, people just love coming to events. And like, client referral events are huge because they feel like it's authentic and they feel like they're a part of your family. And they are in so many ways that they really are when they are your clients. So, yeah, and I'll talk about. Yeah, you go, no good.

I just think that you brought up a really important point that I want to. You know, if someone just got away from the podcast for a second part of the referral process, and creating the culture of referrals in your office and creating experience is the world of the client event. There's two types of client events that we can do. We can do a pure client event appreciation. There's no expectation of them bringing a referral, and there are referral events where there is an expectation of them bringing a guest or an introduction or referral. But those advisors who have figured out how to do these referral events and also client appreciation events, what starts happening with them is more than 50% of the revenue they derive during the course of the year comes from their database. And database is a lot lower investment, higher return marketing than going to the general public. So become masterful in that world of database management in particular, how do I garner referrals?

Yeah, amazing. Have you seen the data? I mean, between client events and the events where they're expected to bring a referral, what do you recommend that people start with like, let's say an advisor's maybe newer, they want to do a client event the first time. Would you recommend one or the other?

That's a good question. So we kind of recommend both? Not kind of. We do recommend both, but I'll take them individually. I think that it's important because every advisor has a budget to work within that you have different sized events. If you have bet, if you have the budget for one big gala in December, okay, that's great and all, but that's one month out of the 12 months that you're doing something. So I would say let's break this budget out because you can do something as simple as a shredding event at your office. Okay. And you have coffee and bagels and you will get people to come out and they'll bring people out with them. Okay. Not an expensive event. I have another advisor that does at Thanksgiving. They do free pies.

Yes.

And I'm like, how does that work? He goes, mark, it's insanity here. There's just people coming in and out for their free. So there are things that you can do that are a lot easier on the pocketbook. And you still get a lot of face to face talkie talk time. Right. Creating that experience in your office now with the. I'm going to give you my little secret saucepiece for clients because. And you probably heard this. Oh, I tried that. But no, they just come out my clients and they don't bring anybody.

Yeah.

Gotta stick to your guns here. Your invitation, that goes out to them as big as the headline. So let's say it's a Valentine's brunch. Just ladies own Valentine's brunch. Okay. As big as the headline, ladies only Valentine's brunch. Right underneath that sub headline, different color, big and bold. Your guest is your ticket.

Perfect.

Right by the phone number. Your guest is your ticket. So there's no, like, question about what you're supposed to do. Then when they call, you got to stick to your guns. Sally calls in. Hey, Sally, who's your guest? Well, I don't have one. Listen, tickets are going fast for this. Call your friend, get her up with you, bring her on out. This is a guest, so you got to stick to your guns. People can't come out no matter how good the client is, if they don't have a guest with them.

Yeah, and how fun. Like I think if you make events Fun. Why wouldn't you want to bring a friend? You know, it's just so natural.

So I'll do that. I'll meet with a client for the first time. I'm like, okay, so that's not working. Tell me about the client event that you did. Well, we had a event here at the office talking about long term care. Come out and bring somebody with them. Right. You summed it up to the degree that I create excitement with the events that I'm going to provide. I can now have an expectation that birds of a feather that flock together will invite somebody to come out. In other words, if I'm going to just do a boring workshop, I might even get my own clients to come out. So the more the better my odds of getting someone to come out.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So we've talked about kind of database marketing seminars. Always love those referrals. Let's talk a little bit about multimedia marketing because you also produce TV and radio content for advisors. And I've also loved seen just the studies on this that we've been able to kind of address with TV and radio over the years now that more advisors are kind of getting into these marketing. But what makes a media campaign effective in this industry? I mean, it's just there's so much knowledge out there and it's like, gosh, like you said, you don't want to reinvent the wheel. Where would an advisor start if they want to get into this?

So I'll tell you where a lot of advisors fail and let me start there. Because one of the things about television and radio is it's a slow burn, it's a longer time to take off. Okay. And if you have done seminars for a long time and you've, you've now become a bigger end advisor because you mastered seminars, you got spoiled. You were probably 120 days. Right? And TV and radio work that way. Okay, because. And I'll take, I'll start there. The other thing is, I think a lot of advisors, they go out on it alone. They don't have someone who understands the industry working with them. In other words, I want to do commercials. The rep from the local TV station has been blowing up. My phone finally got me for a good conversation. I invited them out. Okay. They came to my office and they did a thrilling pitch, great dog and pony show on why I should be on TV and why. Yeah. And then I say, okay, that rep and their team yesterday worked with a roofer. The day before that they were with a doctor. The day before that at a bakery. The day before that they were an auto dealership. So they produce nice commercials and they're a little bit dangerous, but they don't necessarily know what we do and how niche we are. And they didn't provide you scripts from other successful financial advisor campaigns or develop something custom for you because they understand that your particular practice, you know, you. You really make your bread and butter on tax reduction or estate planning or income for life. They don't understand that. So it is a vanilla, pedestrian commercial. It looks beautiful, it's shot really well, but it's just the white noise of the day, nothing sticking, people, right? And then I go into their office and they're like, oh, I tried TV and it didn't work. I'm like, do you mind showing me the commercial? And I see it and I'm like, I'm not here to insult anybody. But that's.

There's a reason it didn't work.

And just by getting on TV doesn't mean you're going to get phone calls. So for us, if you're going to pursue media at your fmo, there might be an experienced media person there. Call us, but don't do it alone, because that is a. An area where it can be a very costly mistake up front. Because we're not talking about 8 or 10 or $12,000. We're talking about a year's worth of airtime and production, which could be 50, 75, $100,000.

No. And I think it's true. You have to have the purse and you have to have the patience. We always say you have to have the two P's. It's really difficult to. And I mean, it's not for everyone. Like we always say, too, marketing is sometimes, often a matchmaking thing with an advisor. Like, some are really amazing at seminars, try tv, and they do the right things, but it's just not authentic. It's not their niche. They don't like it. You can tell when someone's not, you know, loving it or authentic about it. So it is. It is a kind of a niche piece there.

I'll go one step further. First of all, you're 100% right. Okay? Now that you've been coached on how to buy it, how to produce it, now you need to be coached on how to present it. Okay?

Yes.

When you did your first seminars, you're not nearly as good as you are with your seminars right now, with your story and your body language and your facial movements and the way that you get your point across to the audience. Molly, There's a whole set of coaching about TV that's the same way because we teach you how to be on TV and be compelling. This little box right here. Right. If I'm going to talk to you like I do in the conference room. Hi everybody, I'm Jim Smith from abc. It's over, right? It's just done.

It's over.

You got a smile talk, which is completely a natural talk. All those things that go into a very enthusiastic medium called television. Because the primary role of television is entertainment, it is educational media, it is an entertainment medium. So we have to be on some level entertaining.

Yeah. And I think too like, so there, I mean there are other marketing avenues as well. So maybe let's transition now into more of the digital side of things because I think this has also been a bit of an up and coming factor over the last several years. How have you, what are like some of the best practices to integrate digital channels, you know, email, social, webinars into a cohesive strategy? How have you seen that, you know, play over the last couple years and kind of walk us through that a bit.

So one of the things for me is when we go into an advisory firm, we're going to locate your 1, 2 and 3 revenue creating funnels. Okay, so what is your number one revenue creator? What's your number two? What's your number three? You need to be masterful in three areas to get to your most elite production. And I shared that data with you and I'd love to know your data if it's, if it's okay. And we did a clients over 50 million. One ubiquitous metric. All of them without fail did 85% of their production from three funnels.

Yes.

60 million. 70 million. 80 million. It wasn't eight funnels or seven funnels or six funnels. Three. And then the other 15 was other stuff. Right. So I try to get this across to advisors, the same thing. And we build your plan based on your 1, 2 and 3 because that's all you need. So rarely is digital marketing in there for us, couple of reasons. So for us there's two types of marketing out of the gate because we're contracted for a certain amount of time, we have to. If there's, there's Hunter marketing and there's farmer marketing.

Oh, interesting.

So the Hunter marketing says I gotta get out there, eat what I kill now. So Hunter marketing for us is all of our marketing, bar none has two drivers. It is an RSVP to a live or virtual event or an Office appointment, live or virtual? Type of all of it. Every ounce of our marketing goes to those two things. Hunter marketing. I can get things in the pipeline quickly. After a year, 15 or 18 months for our clients, we can show we've done business. Yeah, but farmer marketing is important as well. Okay? You have to plant seeds, you have to sow a crop, you have to reap a harvest. But because we're only with you a year, we know that you might not see the results of that till after a year. Does that make sense? So it's not normally do with our clients, but we tell them you do need to do it, we can help you with it, but it's not going to be the crux of what we do for you. Okay, that being said, well, Mark, is there some Hunter marketing inside of this farmer marketing? And I say, yes, there is. And that's webinars, okay? It is all digitally done. You don't necessarily need to have a piece of targeted direct mail. You can do it all through your social media. You can do it all through your database. You know, I can get all of it out there at a nominal, nominal rate. Okay? Meaning investment. And I can have spectacular returns. Now, just when I talked. I just talked to you about coaching for television. The little box right here, it's the. It is a similar amount of coding webinar, because you've seen it, Molly, You've seen it.

Yep.

Hi, I'm John. And today I'm going to be talking about I'm out taxes. Report when you call.

Yeah, yeah.

And the thing about the webinar, right, as opposed to the live event, is I got in my car, I drove out there. Okay. Barring me saying something terrifically offensive, you're not going to get up and leave. You're going to hear me out. Potentially, there's a steak or chicken after that if you're doing a dinner or food event. So that is a captive audience. You know what I don't have in a webinar? I don't have a captive audience. All they got to do is click and they're out. So we knew that that first minute, that very first minute, actually, it's like 30 seconds. You have to make such impact on the people at that webinar. And we teach you how to do it so you earn the right for them to stick around for 12, 15, 18, 20 minutes plus. Okay. Webinars create so much revenue, so much ROI when done correctly, just like your. Your events.

I think that's so key. And I want to say, too Going back to your kind of three stool firm so much, what you said that almost all of these larger offices, it comes from three funnels. And we see, we've always said marketing stool. It's a three. It's a three foot stool, three pig stool. And you can add more. You can do your shiny ideas. It's great to try new things, but focus and do those masterfully, which is I think, a word that you said several times that I love. Do those well and do those right so that you can fund your shiny ideas so that you're, you're still consistent, you're still on target and it's just cool. Now we want to try webinars. Let's see. And we've seen it done so well and we've seen it done so poorly. So again, it is kind of a fit for what you're doing. And I also just love the analogy of hunting and farming. This is totally. I love hunting and I grew up farming in a farming family. So I was like, oh my gosh, this is so speaking to me. So hopefully other advisors are hearing that as well. But I think it's true. It's the kill now or later. What do you think doing to sow the seeds now for that later return?

Yes.

I mean, in a business, it's just smart. It's smart to have things now and later. So you're growing for that seed and growing for the potential later to down the line, especially for those that are looking to retire or you know, potentially move the business to a successor. You know, anything in that kind of realm I think is important. So kind of just as we wrap up here, we always kind of end our time with a question for the Advisor Summit is where are you trucking today, either personally or professionally? Any big goals you have on the docket for this year?

I do, I do. They're really more Meg type stuff. You know, as all owners of businesses, you have entrepreneurial ideas. And so probably the crux of that is our model, Molly, as you know, is we have great relationships with several FMOs. They refer their folks to us. But we decided in 24 and 25 that, hey, we're going to go out to the general public and we're going to get our name out there, our word out there. We love the model of working with FMOs, but we want to start grabbing our own business because here we are, Mark, Molly, a marketing company. 95% of our business is referral. 95. And I'm sure most, most businesses out there would be like, we want 95%, hey, that's great. But the next step for us, we want that to be more 50, 50, 50% we garner on our own through all the markets that we know how to do. Right. And then 50% from our affiliates.

I'm so rooting for that. I think that's a huge step and it's amazing that you have all the knowledge and capacity and understanding of what it takes for that next step. But still, I mean, as a business owner, to take that, you know, additional move forward is huge. And it probably didn't come as a decision lightly. It probably involves, you know, some investment. And I'm excited for you guys. This is going to be a really, really big thing. I' I love our clients.

We're always looking for what's going to work better. What did we just like you did with your 24 study, what happened in the last year that we can share with our clients that will have true impact to them to grow their firms. Because at the end of the day, I tell advisors, we're in the same business. Okay. Our end line consumer, both of us, meaning Meg and ABC Financial, is an American pre retiree and retiree a senior. That's what we do. Okay. And an advisor told this to me once and I thought, I'm never going to forget that. He said to me, mark, this is the role that we play in people's lives. At some point when you get older, there is the pastor, the doctor and the financial advisor. At some point, one is more important than the other in the relationship of that family. Don't forget that. That is your role.

I love that. Oh, that's so impactful.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so cool. So that's how we get to play a small part in that. Yeah. And like we get to help them in just a little bit of a way, help others. I think that's the best part of what we do is we are able now to empower financial advisors to go help more people and more families and allow them to have safety and security and just knowing like they're taken care of and it's just such a rewarding business and so many ways, so forever.

How do we do more work together?

I love that you're so data driven. So that's why the show I was.

Like, he's, I love we're on the same planet.

Yeah, always. And how can people find your services? I mean, I think you just provide such value for people. So how can they get in touch with you if they're wanting to, you know, Come on board.

I would say the easiest thing, go to our website. It's. It's a little verbose. It's my full name, and my name is Mark. Marky Gaffney. My middle name is Edward, so It's Mark Edward Gaffney.com. mark EdwardGaffney.com and I couldn't get MarkGaffney.com. i couldn't get MarkGaffNEY.com. they were gone. I'm like, do I have to really use my phone?

Who else is out there with that name?

You know, somebody is. Somebody is stag the darn dot com.

Dang it. So. Well, that's a great place to start. I'm sure you're on LinkedIn as well, so people can connect. We'll send them to your website.

All social media platforms.

So.

But. And then one last final thing, because I'm a shameless promoter. For us, we make getting in contact with us very easy. Our first contact is always an intro call. 15 minutes. It's a zoom. No one's going to beat you up. It's free. No pressure, no nothing. We just want to see if we're on the same page and if we provide value, and if we do, we'll move on from there.

I love, too, that. I mean, even when we initially started talking, if you can't provide value to someone, I love that you're like, we're not the right team. We're not the right fit for you. And we always value that, too. Like, if we can't help you, I'm not going to say, oh, yeah, like, we can and here just pay us. Because I don't want to have someone pay me or be our company if it's not worth it for them. Like, that's just not a true. Or if you're not going to fit, then let's find someone that is a good fit that maybe would be a better referral for you.

Agreed.

It's so good. Well, it's been great to talk to you today, Marc.

You as well, Molly. Thank you so much. I hope we do this again sometimes.

For sure. Chat soon.

All right. Bye. Bye.