Growing Your Agency Through Partnerships With Dustin Riechmann

Partnerships are one of the smartest sales and marketing strategies any agency can employ, especially a smaller agency who probably doesn't have tons of money and time to invest in things like advertising. So that's what we're going to cover in today's podcast. We're going to dig into the different types of partnerships that you can look into how you go about finding the ideal partner and what your outreach strategy should be and how you can keep partnerships alive. So I'm really excited to dig into this really important topic. So let's get on with the show. I'm Rob Da Costa and this is the Agency Accelerator Podcast. As someone who has stood in your shoes, having started, grown and sold my own agency, I know just how it feels in the ups and downs of agency life. So this podcast aims to ease your journey just a little by sharing mine and my guests experiences and advice as you navigate your way to growing a profitable, sustainable and enjoyable business. Hey everybody and welcome to this week's episode of the Agency Accelerator Podcast. Now I'm always telling my clients that a smart way to grow their business is by working with partners because it means at the end of the day that you're managing a few small relationships that can potentially deliver multiple clients. And that's a really smart thing to do, especially for sort of SME agency owners. Now I've talked about partnerships in the past and if you go Back to episode 71, I talked about the importance of building partnerships as a solo episode. But I'm excited to get some different perspectives on this topic today by being joined by Dustin Riechman, who is a business coach who helps ambitious entrepreneurs get unstuck and rapidly grow their profits with confidence. So that's music to my ears. Dustin is best known for his partnership marketing system, which I'm sure we'll talk about, which he has used to grow far crack snacks into a seven figure business without using paid ads. So welcome to the show, Dustin. I hope I did a reasonable introduction, but why don't you tell us a little bit about how you grew Fire Fire Creek. Sorry, Fire Creek Snacks. And also why you think our audience should be focused on building partnerships.

Absolutely, Rob. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's. It's a real pleasure. The story, the I'll give you the 32nd background of kind of where Fire Creek emerged from because I think it's very relevant. Actually one phase of it was when I had my own marketing agency. So I hope it shows people how these relationships and these partnerships can ebb and flow and into relationships. That you would never expect. So my background was actually in engineering. So I had a specialty in traffic engineering. I practiced for 18 years. As part of that I had some side businesses and I really got deep into digital marketing and growing some of my digital businesses. My very first business was called Engaged Marriage. It grew out of marriage ministry. And so that's where I really cut my teeth and learn how to create a business, do digital marketing. And that's looking back, that was where some of my first partnerships came from. Although I wasn't really consciously doing it at that point. When I left engineering, I took on a lot of kind of local marketing gigs with, you know, people in my community like my dentist, my real estate agent. And one of those was actually a local butcher shop. And in serving them and mark, helping them market their brick and mortar locations at numerous locations of a family business, I grew in a great relationship with the owner and he had a brand that he was just selling in our local market and he wanted to take it online and he had no idea how to do that. So I helped him with that. And that brand became Fire Creek Snacks. And that was right at the beginning of 2019. So we're about three years into that brand. We are well into the seven figure revenue mark at this point and we've done it in a non traditional way. So a lot of e commerce is direct response. So some of your, your audience, maybe agencies that work with e commerce companies for example, is kind of that default path, you know, paid ads, roas direct response. And we've done some of that. But the vast majority of our growth has come from what I've coined and what I call now partnership marketing.

Yeah, so you, you hit the nail on the head in a way that a lot of the audience, certainly a lot of my private clients are working in that e commerce space or they're supporting e commerce businesses and they may well provide SEO services or ppc, like paid ad services. So I'm really interested to know more about how you grew that to that size using like you say, a non traditional approach of partnerships rather than paid advertising.

Okay, yeah. So maybe to give context, partnership marketing, the way I talk about it, is really getting your expertise, your services in front of your target audience in a win, win, win fashion. Meaning it's obviously a win for you because you get exposure to your target audience, it's a win for the host of that audience and it's a win for their audience because you're providing value. So a real, you know, it's funny to say traditional when talking about podcasting, but a real typical approach to this would be podcast guesting. And I listened to your episode with Alex Sanfilippo. It was excellent. Alex and I are friends that that's been a big part of my history and my growth is being a guest on podcasts like this one. So this would be as if the audience wants to think of partnerships in a specific way. Just think of what you and I are doing, Rob. Like I'm hopefully going to teach your audience some very valuable, valuable tactics. They're going to hear some good stories that helps you grow your audience. That's a win for you. And then if there's someone listening who wants help with partnership marketing to grow their agency, maybe they'll reach out to me and then that's, you know, that's a win for me. So this is in a microcosm, an example of partnership marketing. There are many others and I would love to go through multiple examples. But as far as Fire Creek specifically, there's been two. I mean there's been a dozen, but there's been two that I would say are the primary drivers of growth. For Fire Creek specifically. Number one was podcast guesting. So I've been on probably 30, 35 podcasts, a mix of businessy podcasts where I'm telling the Fire Creek business story, talking about Shopify tactics and conversion rates and things like that, and some that are more for our actual target audience. So I've been on like ketogenic diet podcast, talking about that part of my life, talking about talking to like gluten free mom, we call them as one of our avatars. They their types of podcasts because the product that we sell is a better for you craft protein meat stick. It's only sold in the United States at this point, but it grew out of my business partner. His kid had a food allergy and so there's a very compelling story there about how this came out. He's a third generation owner of this butcher shop company and yet he was struggling to keep his kids feeling good with the food that they were eating. So he kind of had to learn new things and use the traditional route. So anyway, there's a compelling story and, and so that podcast guesting, it's driven some growth. And this is what is funny for E commerce. It's probably like the least direct application. You know, if you can imagine you're an agency and you have some great tactic for SEO and you get out there and you teach it, you will get inbound leads that could be High quality leads, you know, they could be agency level leads. I'm getting on a Shopify podcast and talking about meat sticks. So the irony in that is we do still sell meat sticks on that podcast. We'll give a coupon code, but that is by far, that's, that's like the 5% of what we're trying to accomplish. What we're really trying to accomplish is brand partnerships, distributors who hear us, perhaps, you know, people that have really good services that want to come tell us about their services. So it's establishing relationships. So when I first started doing this a few years ago, the podcast route specifically, I was like, hey, you know, I like podcasting. I know I could tell, I could tell this story. I would love to get feedback about the podcast product because it was fairly new. I wanted to kind of practice telling our story in a way. And so, you know, then I made the offer at the end, hey, if someone wants to try a bundle of meat sticks, you know, have at it. And we sold. We would sell a couple hundred dollars up to several thousand dollars direct. And that's good. And it made it worth my while. What I didn't expect was on the back end, the relationships, the. So there's, you know, the relationship with that podcast host who's an influencer in their space. There's a relationship with the audience. Some, many, many unspoken, but also some that are spoken, right? They'll reach out and they'll want a zoom call, or they'll want more information or they want to connect me with someone they know. And those relationships have been gigantic. There's also been SEO benefits. You know, talking real practically. I get backlinks from Shopify because I was on their podcast and I was. That's really good for Fire Creek. You know, that's really good for our domain authority and those sort of things. So. And podcast specifically has a long tail effect, you know, so it's, you get that first week release and you get some activity. But I still have people reaching out from two years ago who just found an episode and they're interested to talk. And so again, you can think about this for your agency, but just think about, you get out there and this, this, this, you're putting this message out into the ether, right? And then some portion of that comes back to you. So I've had our. I had a private hour long zoom call with the head meat snacks buyer at Walmart because I was on a podcast and some younger guy in finance at Walmart heard it, thought it was a great story. Put us in contact. Now, we haven't yet. We actually do sell into Walmart. We haven't got like a national deal out of it, but I got a lot of insight into what they care about. I've had marketing interns that have worked for our company as a result of being on podcast. Countless brand partnerships, collaborations, distributors, et cetera. So that's podcasting. And again, Alex did a great job about the how to do that, the pitching. There's a back end to that that I would love to talk more about here in a second. That makes it a true system for your business. I think that's a real distinction. The second partnership, and I won't go nearly as long on this one for physical products, like our E Commerce would be something like a subscription box. So you think about we donate a product or we sell it at cost. That's a win for the person who owns that box. And then their customer gets to discover a great new brand. So that's a win for the customer and they win for us is obviously the divisibility and discovery. We had one partnership that started two years ago. I was on a podcast. Someone reached out. They were from a company in the US called Snack Nation, and they sell to like B2B Fortune 500 type companies. They provide better for you snacks for their employees. We got a very small placement. We had to donate the snacks. Very small in their world, which was like 8,000 boxes. And we got great reviews, and then the podcast had great reviews and that was the end of the story. I thought, fast forward two years to about two months ago. I got an email from the new snack buyer for that category, and she said, I was looking at old product reviews and I listened to all the podcasts that are relevant to my category. And I loved your story. This was what podcasts were. My business partner and I got to tell the whole brand story. Specifically, it's called Brand Builder is the name of the podcast. And she was compelled to reach out because based on that data and that experience and hearing our story, she wanted to have us be engaged fully in this calendar year for the last three quarters. And she placed a purchase order for 600,000 snack sticks. So it's kind of a business changing. And it all came out of a very simple LinkedIn conversation that turned into a podcast that went dormant for two years. And that's the beautiful thing about partnerships is you're planting all these seeds and you don't really know what's going to sprout. And you'll get some outliers that just make it all worthwhile. So you're hitting a lot of singles, to use a baseball analogy. Right. And every once in a while a home run will pop out of it and you won't even be able to expect where it comes from run. So I get very excited talking about this because it's really changed my life, not just my business.

Yeah, no, I love that enthusiasm and it's just so true. I just want to share my own example of that. Not quite as big in terms of sales as you, but I have my own sort of partnership strategy. And one of the partners I really wanted to target was HubSpot because in the marketing world they are really big player and they're extremely good at marketing and everyone has heard this HubSpot. So I pursued them to write a guest blog for them and they're quite stringent about the process. And eventually, having jumped over all the hurdles, I got to write a blog around client and account management. And that was probably three or four years ago. And I'm still getting people downloading stuff that I could promote in that blog. So I think the whole longevity of marketing partnerships is something people should not overlook because like you say, you've sown a seed and you don't know what, how it's going to grow and what's going to sprout. So I think that's really good. Really quickly, can you give. So you've talked about podcasting as a marketing strategy. You've talked about putting products in a physical food box, which is great. A lot of our listeners will be sort of service based businesses. They're providing service. Can you give us any other examples of the kind of partnerships that they might look into?

100%. Yeah. So there's these things that are analogous to podcasting, like radio, tv, magazine, newspapers. So kind of that traditional pr, you know, podcast is really just a new spin in on that, that you can have a more targeted audience. But something I've had success with in my service business and in what I do now with my coaching business would be joint venture webinars, things like lead magnet swaps. You know, for example, if you're a really, you're really good at SEO and you serve a certain clientele and you find an agency who's really good at Facebook ads and they serve a similar clientele or they at least provide a similar outcome, you guys are collab. You can be collaborators rather than competitors and you can kind of cross pollinate. Right. And eventually you may become like direct partners, business partners. You could at least be direct referral partners. But as a, as a, as a way to date before you get that, that serious, you know, hey, I'll email our email list with your cool strategy about Facebook ads and you can get people, draw people over on your email list and you email your email list about our SEO strategies. Right. So I think that in the agency world, if you're doing a specialized services, I think that's, that's a really key way to do it and you get to kind of hand select your partners because you can see how if they're really high quality, high octane people you want to work with, that's a great way to do it. Other examples would be like participating in virtual summits around your area of expertise, speaking, you know, just traditional speaking events. You can get a lot of clients that way. I've done some of that myself. But yeah, I, if I had an agency and I was specialized in a certain service line, I think that collaboration with like minded agency owners is one way to really start brainstorming. And again, if you want to, if you're going down that route, the thing I would encourage people to think about is how can I lead with a win? How can I provide a win for someone else? Because the rest of prostitute will come back and provide a win for your agency. Does that help?

Yeah. Fantastic. It's really good gold nuggets in there that I hope people listen to and write down and put into their marketing mix. Because all of this stuff is smart, especially when you are finding partners that have a bigger audience than you or an audience that you want to get connected to that you don't have that direct into.

So, and guest posting as you mentioned, is, it can be a really key one that, what you said, what you did with HubSpot, that's, that's the entirety of how I grew my engaged marriage business. This was back before podcasts that started in 2009. I was just a rampant guest blog poster and it turned into collaborations with other people in the relationship space and e books and you know, all these, all these things that I didn't think about as being partnerships, but it was, it still is. What I would have called it then is like relationship marketing. Right. It's building relationships with other people who you would love to do business with and then growing together. That's, that's really what it's about.

Yeah, I completely agree. Now in the marketing world, people traditionally think about partnerships in terms of like referral business. And a lot of my clients are always asking me Rob, should I, how do I do that? And should there be money exchanging hands and what. So we've talked about marketing partnerships, but there's also this kind of like sales referral partnership. So I'm interested in your view on that and how you should make that work and if there are any other kinds of partnerships as well.

Yeah, I do think the sale, what you just referred to, I would like you to said everything I've talked about to this point, I would consider a marketing relationship. So it is valuable, but it's a bit transactional. Right. It'll hopefully be ongoing, but it's not, it's very much casual. If you get into a sales relationship that's like saying I highly endorse their services, you should go, you know, you should go work with them. That's, you know, that's getting into, to use the relationship analogy, dating. Right. Like you're, there's some trust that's been established, they've proven themselves. Maybe they've provided those services to your agency and you really trust them. So how. Yeah, I think, I think you could do that purely on a, I'm going to send you business, you send me business. And then you kind of see over time if that's kind of working out, if that's, if there's an evenness to how that's working. But it could definitely be monetary. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. If you're giving a finder's fee or referral fee, I think that's totally fine. You just have to obviously be super careful because you can't do it for the money. You have to let the money just be a byproduct of trying to do the right thing to service that client by giving them, you know, referring them to someone that you really legitimately in your heart feel is going to help them because you know if they fail to perform, you're the one whose reputation suffers. So you just, I think it's perfectly fine and good, but I'd just be really selective on who I apply that with.

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I often tell a lot of my clients, don't make those transactions monetary based because no one gets rich off $100 referral here and there. Make it about building your audience, make it about providing value, make it about protecting your audience because you're referring people within your network. So you're not going to lose them because your network saying, hey, come to us and buy the service instead. So that's My personal view. But of course, you know, there are a lot of people that have built very successful businesses off affiliate sales and all that kind of.

Right, right.

So let's just talk about, like, hopefully people are nodding their heads, agreeing with everything that you said so far, Dustin, but they might be thinking, where on earth do I go and find these partners? So let's just spend a few minutes talking about how do I go and find these partners and how do I vet them really quickly to work out whether they're going to be a good day or a bad day.

Yeah. So if it's okay with you, we can continue to use podcasts as kind of the example, the case study, I think, you know, I told. I talked about multiple different types of partnerships. The same process applies to all partner. Podcasts are very easy to talk about because we're all aware of how they work. They're very visible, they're easy to find. So for research purposes, you know, they're. They're kind of easy. Right. And so what I found. So at first when I started doing this, I was kind of hodgepodge. It was like, oh, you know, I listen to some podcasts. I should reach out to that host and, you know, and. And see if I can get on their show. And I would do that, and I would have pretty good success. I would get on the show and then three months ago by. And I think of another one, and, you know, you do get results, but you don't get very consistent results and you don't build momentum in that way. So, like I said, what I typically get on other shows and talk about is like, how to be a really good partner, how to be a really good podcast guest. You and Alex covered that a hundred percent on a previous episode. So definitely, if people like this, they should go listen to that for sure to learn about how to find podcasts, how to pitch them, how to be, you know, how to. How to perform well as a guest, those sort of things. The piece, I don't think you guys covered that. I think if I was as an agency owner listening here is how do I make this a system? How do I make this an asset to my business? Alex mentioned you can go hire agencies. There are agencies out there who basically will place you on podcasts. Right. I'll tell you, they're expensive, and they tend to place everyone kind of on the same podcast because they have those referral relationships. Whether they're monetary or not, I'm not sure. And that's fine. And maybe that's a good Way to test the waters if you just don't want anything to do with this. What we've done for Fire Creek and for simple success coaching, which is my coaching business, is in each of those businesses I've got an ongoing running system that we own and we do. That gets my personal goal. And this would change based on how big of clients you're going after. Enterprise level versus small businesses, those sort of things. My personal goal is to have one new partnership opportunity per week for each of my businesses. And that's not necessarily being on a podcast. It's not necessarily something that results in a sale. It could literally just be a great introduction to someone that gets added to my LinkedIn network. But that whole idea of there's a goal, it's consistent, I've got other people doing the legwork. Okay, so like the way I teach this stuff is there's like four steps. Purpose, plan, pitch and perform. The purpose part is really on you as the agency owner. Like why do you want to get a partnership? What's in it for you? What's your gonna be your call to action. If you're on a podcast, for example, what's it all about? But that's kind of, you do that kind of once. I mean you may, you may modify that depending on the audience, but you're kind of just do that. And then I'll zoom to the last part, which is perform. That's the, you know, doing your part in the partnership, showing up, doing the interview well, following up with the host, leveraging and maximizing that relationship. That's on you as the host or as the, as the owner. But the middle two pieces were is almost all the work, which is the planning and the pitching. So that's like researching where to find these opportunities and then drafting up a pitch and a follow up, you know, to those pitches. That could be trained and that could be outsourced. And you can have a virtual assistant or someone on your team who's just running that all the time. And so what you're receiving as the brand owner, the agency owner in this case is just opportunities. Like hey, you know, they're calendly links, they're just like show up and do the interviews. In the podcast example, that's kind of the light bulb moment for me in the past six months really is like, let's do this, let's make this a system, an asset to our business. Let's own it and let's, let's have this be a continuous thing. And since doing that, everything's kind of like 10x right. There's just something about that consistent focus and just putting in the reps and just showing up and doing it and doing it and doing it, which you could do just totally on your own, but that becomes exhausting. So having someone else do a lot of that legwork and you just get to do the part that you really love is, is great. So I'm happy to go into the details of the research, which was your original question. I know you and Alex talked about that some extent, but I'm happy to dive deeper into any of those steps.

Yeah. And I just wanted to say you might share this later on, but you. If people want to download your, your partnership marketing blueprint, then we will put a link in the notes attached to this podcast and you can dive deeper into those four stages. But yeah, I just interested to know how. What, what, how do you quickly detect. This is probably putting you on the spot, but how do you quickly detect a good partner from a bad partner? Because we don't want to invest loads of time going on lots of dates with somebody to work out that actually they've got a whole different mindset to us and they're never going to be a great partner for us. How do we work that out? Pretty quickly.

Yeah. So if we stick with the podcasting example, there's some quick screening type of things that you could do in two minutes. So if you say you're looking at a certain vertical, you target food companies, you want to be an agency for E commerce food companies like Fire Creek. Right. So you go look at podcasts that feature food company founders telling their story because those people would be perfect targets for you on the surface, you know, as a, as an opportunity. So if you're, as the agency, you want to get featured on that same podcast because, you know, a lot of the audience listening are food company, you know, founders. What you want to do though is so you can go to Apple, you can go, there's tons of ways to do this research, but just you can Google search, you know, cpg, food founder, small business owner, podcast or whatever, and you'll get top 20 lists of 20, 22, those sort of things. So open those up. And then first, first screening is have they, you know, published in the past month or two. Because many podcasts go dormant. There's no point writing them if they're not doing new shows. Number two, do they do interviews consistently? If it's a solo show, there's no, again, no point in reaching out. And then number three, depending on the size of audience you want to be in front of and you're comfortable with. You can get a really good idea of the size of the show based on their Apple ratings and reviews. Like how many ratings and reviews do they have? So rule of thumb, you know, if it's below 50 would be kind of a newer show, maybe a smaller show depending on how many episodes they've got. You know, 50 to 150 is kind of mid size and then 200 and up is large. But you know there's, there's like 200, 2,000 and 20,000. So there's a huge range there. But just to give you an idea, so if you just, if you're one, if you're newer to this and you want to get your story refined, maybe you want to target some small, smaller shows and get on those and kind of get, get your, get your feet wet. I kind of live in the like middle, the medium to like the smaller, larger podcasts. That's where a lot of my coaching clients would, would live because they're small businesses a lot of times that are running these podcasts. So that's kind of the, the technical screening. Like let's first of all get to a curated a list that would even make sense to approach and then at that point, what I would encourage. If you're doing this yourself, that's fine. Or you could easily train someone to do this. Look through some episodes and find some that you think would be relatable to the same type of topic you might talk about. Right. So if you're wanting to get on this food show and talk about how food brands can use SEO to grow their business, maybe you see if they've talked to other marketers about other topics like TikTok ads or something, right? And then you listen to one of those episodes and you'll quickly get a flavor for the host. Their values, how they ask questions, why are they having these people on? Are you a competitor or would you be complimentary to them? Like you can listen to one episode, you could really listen to the first five minutes and the last five minutes and you'll get a really good flavor of. Would this be a potential partner for me to go on and share my expertise? Would they value this partnership? Would they be likely to say yes based on the content that they typically feature? So that's really it. And you do want to have good rapport with that host. But keep in mind it's not just about the host, it's also about their audience. So maybe you and the host aren't going to become best friends, but you share enough value that you think their audience would still resonate with your message.

Yeah, that's a really good advice. And I just want to say to everybody that's listening to this, apply everything that Dustin just said to any type of marketing activity. We're just using podcasting as an example to kind of bring this story to light, but it applies to everything. There's two really key messages there that I just want to put out. One is do your research. Yes, it, it. As a podcast host, I get inundated every week with, well, not inundated, but, you know, I get five to 10 people pitching themselves or their, their client to be on the podcast. And I get rid of a lot of people really quickly because they just haven't done any flipping research. All they've done is they say how their client has grown this multi zillion dollar company and sold it. And they're really amazing. And here's their biography and here's some things they can talk about. And I would normally think, well, that's so not relevant to my audience. So do your research. And then when you're reaching out to your partner, make sure that you are really thinking about how you can serve your partner's audience, because the rest of it will follow. As you said earlier, don't. If you're, if your first approach, like, if you'd approach me and said, hey, Rob, I've got this amazing system for partnerships that I'd really like to talk about on your podcast, I'd have thought that sounds a bit too salesy to me. You didn't take that approach, and hence we're talking today. So make sure you do your research and make sure you focus on serving their audience, not selling. The selling will follow.

Yeah.

Is that fair enough?

Yeah, absolutely. Robin, you're, you're a podcast host, so when I say this, I, I'm, I'm sure you're gonna be nodding along, but I, so I'm not a podcast host, but I do have several brands, so I get pitched constantly for, you know, engaged Marriage. It's guest posting for Fire Creek. It's. It's vendor services. It's kind of all the same thing. And I say pitch, that can kind of have a negative connotation. All that really means is reach out in a relatable way to try to get a response to see if it's a good partnership idea. But I'm very big on research. And the first part of every message that people receive from me Whenever I'm doing this is. It's filled with relational anchors is what I would call it. Right. So it will be clear if you received an email from Dustin asking about a potential marketing partnership, that I know who you are, I know all about your show and who your audience is and probably know something about you personally. And I try to find a way for us to connect in each of those ways. Right. So if I find out. If I listen to an episode and I find out a host lives in my state, that's going to be in the first paragraph. Or that we went to the same college, or they have kids and I have kids, or they do a business with their wife and I do a business with my wife. They don't have to be deep connections, but something that immediately lets them open the email and be like, this person has actually spent some time figuring out. Not in a creepy way, but they figured out who I am. It can be as simple as, Rob, I listened to your episode with Alex and Filippo. I actually know Alex. But I just wanted to say I got this nugget out of that episode, and it's really going to help me grow my e commerce business. It shows at least that I listened to an episode and that I cared enough to mention it. And then the second piece of every email you'll receive from me is typically like, basically a really simple bullet point breakdown of what I would like to teach your audience, what stories I'd like to share, what tactics I like to share. Because then again, it makes you just like, wow, this is gonna be so easy. He's already written the show for me, and you can tell if it's gonna be something that fits. And then third is just a really simple direct call to action. Are you interested? You know, so that. Those are kind of my. That's my perfect pitch, you know, email template in a nutshell. And that's what we really help people hone that for the first time. And then you can tweak it, you know, for each of the. Each of the potential partners after that.

Okay, so my last question before we wrap this up, because I'm conscious of time and I'm not sure how well this applies to the podcasting example, but how do you keep relationships alive? So once you have established this relationship, you might have met and talked about an idea in theory, like maybe joining, running a joint event together, and then everyone goes back to the desk and gets busy. How do you keep the relationship alive?

Yeah. So for us, at this point, that's part of the system, right? So if we've had a partnership, if I've been on a podcast, we make it a point to check in every three months or so just to say hello or share some new resource or, you know, a lot of times it'll happen organically because I'll have someone come into my world and I'll be like, oh, my gosh, this, you know, this person serves agency owners. They got to talk to Rob. I think this would be a great podcast guest for Rob. So there, once, once you're in my world, you know, you're kind of. You try. I try to keep you in my world, not in a selfish way, but just to think of ways to serve. You know, maybe that at some point hits the limit. It's like, I know too many people. I can, you know, I don't think it does, though. I think we, we continue to build relationships. Some naturally filter out over time. It's just life. But yeah, we proactively try to keep names bouncing back up to the top of our, of our CRM, just to keep, keep them warm. But I like to connect also in multiple ways. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So, like, Rob and I connected on LinkedIn before this interview. So, you know, I'll interact with some of his posts. That'll get him in my feed. And then when he has an episode to come out, I can comment on it, share it, like it, and that makes him remember who Dustin is. So maybe if someone comes in his world and wants to, like, implement a partnership marketing system, he's like, go talk to Dustin. He was a former guest and you're going to remember my name because I've kept myself active in your ecosystem. You got to kind of choose your ecosystem because there's way too many options. For me, it's LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on Facebook personally. And then, you know, I'm big into podcasting, so I'll often hear, often be like, Rob is now part of my subscription on my itunes, on my phone. And so I'm not going to guarantee I listen to every episode he puts out, but many of his will be relevant. And so I'll be listening to those. And that keeps it fresh. So Rob could expect at some point to get a LinkedIn message from me saying, hey, I listened to your episode about four day workweek. It was super helpful. Rob. It can be as simple as that, but it's just keeping your mind, your name, top of mind for people. Because one partnership can very often be leveraged both ways into serving each other's. Audiences for a long time.

Yeah. And of course, you know, you can pass on knowledge that you learn that you think might be relevant. And that's going to work both ways. I've got to be honest, that's really good advice. But I feel like not a lot of, for example, my previous guests have done that. It's been a bit of a one and done, which might be my fault as much as, as anything, I always make sure I do connect with my guests on LinkedIn and try to sort of follow them on LinkedIn. But that is just really good advice, especially when you find it's.

Honestly, I know we're out of time, but it is the differentiator. It's the 80, 20 rule. Following up with someone after you have a relationship and it's been successful in any way, that's. You're gonna get 80% of the results that way. Because it's just what you said, Rob, you've had some excellent guests. They don't ever follow up. You kind of forget about them. Anyone who can just casually be every quarter, you know, checking in and saying hi is going to be top of mind. And there's going to be another opportunity for us to help each other with a referral either way. And just again, stay on top of mind. It's very simple. But you will completely not do it unless it's in a system. And that's why I'm a big advocate of this idea.

I think that's a great idea. So hopefully people will go and download your system so they can learn more about that. Let me just ask you the last question that I ask all of my guests before we wrap this up, which is if you could go back in time and give your younger self just starting out in business one piece of advice, what would it be?

So, for me, that would be the piece of advice that I give to every college kid or young person that comes out of school who comes to me and asks me a question is that with very few exceptions in life, there are almost no permanent decisions. Right. So, I mean, hopefully your marriage is a permanent decision, having children is a permanent decision. Maybe some religious orders are a permanent decision, but almost nothing else is. And this has held me back many times in life, the most poignant of which was my engineering career. There was many years where I wanted to be out of it, and I just felt like, well, if I leave it, then I'll lose my identity. And I'm like, I could never be an engineer again. And there was something that clicked for me in 2017, that was like, wait a second, I could leave and then if it doesn't work out, I can go back. This is not a permanent decision. I'm not abandoning my engineering life forever, you know. And so, and it just freed me up. And so ever since then, I mean, you've heard me, I've been involved and continue to be involved in multiple businesses and multiple things. That's what I like to do. But for my marketing for a business venture or whatever, I view almost everything now through the lens of experiments, not like permanent decisions. I'm not permanently tied to any of this stuff, you know, and that's been very freeing. It's really opened my mind to be much more abundant in, you know, the opportunities that I'm able to seek.

Yeah, that's such a good piece of advice. I remember just a really quick side personal story. I moved down to the south coast of the UK in Brighton in 2010 and it was at the end of a relationship, unfortunately. I went through a big life change and I moved down here and I didn't know anybody and a lot of my friends were like, Rob, you're really crazy or really brave and, and I'm not. And I thought exactly what you just said, which is, well, what's the worst that could happen? Is any bricks and mortar that I'm selling, I could always move back. And that was, you know, that took me to be in my late 30s to figure that out.

So.

But it is a great mantra to live by. So thank you for sharing that. Now if people wanted to find out more about you and your business, where should they go?

Yeah. So you know, the main thing for your audience today, if they want some snack sticks in the US they can look up fire creek. But I think the main relevant thing is my simplesuccess coaching.com and I'm my. One of my big things that I'm very passionate about in life is transparency. So I'm kind of an open book. So if someone just has a question, they need a connection, they have a, you know, some kind of follow up they can go to, they can just email me. It's just Dustin D U S T I n@simplesuccesscoaching.com and also on that website, as Rob referred to earlier, if you go to the top, there's a link that says partnership marketing 101. You can get access to a short video series that's walks you right through those four steps that we talked about earlier about how to use partnership marketing in a smart way. And how to make it a system.

Yeah. So I'll put all the links into that. And just to say that I did watch your videos before we jumped on this call, so I can contest that it's going to be useful for people to go and look at that. And I think the idea of systemizing this is a really, really good one. That's my big, my personal big takeaway from today and something that I need to do because I am guilty of doing this in a bit of an ad hoc way. So, listen, Dustin, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been really insightful. I know the audience will find it really useful. And I really appreciate your time.

Awesome. Rob. It was all my pleasure. And I look forward to connecting with your audience. Thank you.