Managing Overwhelm & Procrastination, And Tips For Better Project Management With Chelsey Newmyer

We're all really busy, but no one wants to be a busy fool. So how do you make sure that you are prioritizing and focusing on the right things? How do you get really organized? How do you make sure that you don't chase shiny new objects? And how do you avoid procrastination? Well, these are the questions that we are going to get answered in today's podcast with my guest Chelsea Neumeyer. So let's dive into the show. I'm Rob Da Costa and this is the Agency Accelerator Podcast. As someone who has stood in your shoes, having started, grown and so hold my own agency, I know just how it feels in the ups and downs of agency life. So this podcast aims to ease your journey just a little by sharing mine and my guests experiences and advice as you navigate your way to growing a profitable, sustainable and enjoyable business. Hey everybody and welcome to this week's Agency Accelerator Podcast. Now this week we are talking all about managing overwhelm, managing avoiding procrastination and getting some tips on better time and project management. And I'm really excited to be joined by Chelsea Neumeyer to discuss that with me. Now Chelsea is a self confessed nerd for all things time management, which is music to my ears because to be honest, I can always get better at it myself. So I'm here keen to hear what I can learn today. Now one thing all agency owners are short of is time. So anything we can do to help them be more productive and organized and focused is always good. And that's why I was keen to have Chelsea on the podcast today. So welcome to the show, Chelsea.

Oh, thanks so much for having me, Rob. I'm excited to chat with everyone.

Great. So I thought I'd start with a big common, big question which is what are some of the common traits you see busy business owners suffering from and what are the common mistakes they make when it comes to organizing their time and prioritisation and all the rest of it?

Yeah, absolutely. So I work mostly with solopreneurs or people with really small teams and I think we, one of the biggest challenges we're all facing is we, we all have too much to do, right? I mean at the end of the day we have a lot of things we want to get done, things we have to get done and we struggle with the pacing of it. So we'll put way too many things on our to do list for every day and then just end up feeling really stressed out or overwhelmed or defeated at the end of the day when we're not able to get all those big plans done. And in partnership with that challenge, I also see that people will put really big tasks on their to do list. So it's create a podcast, which is a huge task. It's a big step and has a lot of mini pieces in there. But we'll just add start podcasts onto our to do list and then wonder why we struggle with getting started and we procrastinate on it or get stressed out. So I think off the bat, most people can take cut their to do list every day in about half and already see a lot more success.

Yeah, we do set ourselves up to fail, don't we? Exactly. One thing I like, I use a piece of software called Amazing Marvin. Stupid software, but good tool for doing my to do list. And one thing I really wanted when I was looking for my to do list is something that I could physically cross things out because there's a real sense of satisfaction at the end of the day seeing everything crossed out. But on the other hand, if you put big tasks like that, then you're never going to cross it out. You're just going to move it to one day to the next and it's going to feel more and more difficult as time goes on, I think. Is it Bill Gates that said, we underestimate how much we can do in the long term and overestimate how much we can do in the short term. That's so true, isn't it?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I recommend people have about three to five things on their to do list to start each day because we know that things are going to come up. We know that there's going to be other things that are added to our plate. You have a great meeting with a potential new client and you need to follow up with them right away. And that's going to get added to your to do list. And so you may end the day with 10 things, but if we start with 10, you're going to end up with 15 or 20. And that's. That's where things get a little out of control.

Yeah, sure. Just adding extra things onto the bottom of your to do list as the day goes on is never a smart thing to do, is it? So come back to sort of managing time. But I just want to ask before we jump into that, why you think so many sort of small business owners particularly are so poor at prioritization and time management?

Oh, because we get so excited. Everything feels exciting, everything feels very urgent. We all suffer a little bit from that shiny object syndrome where we read a Great news article or listen to a great podcast and get inspired and then immediately want to jump into that. Most entrepreneurs are starters, right? We're the people who get things going. We jump in and it's really that execution piece that I think a lot of people struggle with. So as much as we can think about our goals ahead of time. Right. I define productivity as working on the right thing at the right time to help you reach your goals. So if you know what that end goal is, then as those shiny objects come in, you can start filtering them through your goals. Like, is this going to help me reach my goal? Is this going to be that right next step for my audience? Or should I finish the current thing that's halfway done in addition to all the other projects that are halfway done? If you're like me.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people will recognize that. And we are bombarded with all sorts of, you know, information from social media and news and everywhere else, and the latest kind of get with get rich quick scheme and the easy way to do things and the shiny new tool. So we kind of go down a rabbit hole. I mean, I've got one client who was so bad at this, and if he's listening, he'll know exactly who he is that we put together this, we called it a shiny new object trommel. So it was basically a decision making process where he would take an idea and he would put it in the spreadsheet and he would score it against certain factors and then it would give him a sort of red, amber, green. And you know, very few of those ideas ever were green, which means you should go ahead with it. Most of them were red, which means this is a distraction. Stop doing brilliant. Yeah. So whatever we can do to sort of mitigate that and get focused. I think actually you sort of hit a nail on the head really, that a lot of people don't have that plan. So they're kind of in existing mode and they're influenced by lots of external factors, including all these shiny new objects. So they easily get distracted. Right? Yeah, let's drill that down a bit and maybe you could just share some time management tips that listeners could start implementing right away.

Yeah. So the first thing is obviously that shorten your to do list to give yourself very, very actionable things to work on. So again, we don't want that to do list to say, start a podcast. We want it to be decide on the name or create the, you know, join the hosting platform. Right. Super actionable steps that you can feel really good about the progress you're making. I'm a big fan of time blocking, but I approach it in a slightly different way. I like really big blocks of time. I don't want your calendar to be this like rainbow of mini 30 minute tasks. I like big blocks of time where you can theme that time and stay focused within, you know, so content, right? You want a couple hours for creating content every week, you want a couple hours for that admin, financial review, inbox processing kind of work. So keep your blocks broad so that you have flexibility within them. If we get really specific with time blocking, that's where as soon as something takes a little bit longer than we were anticipating, for whatever reason, we see that cascading effect and then you're playing catch up the whole time. So I just like to tell them to like set yourself up for success and assume that you're going to need those little bit of blocks because if you finish early, you get to take a break. And that is also an incredibly important part of being an entrepreneur is taking rest, having those moments of self care throughout the day so that you're not constantly go, go, go, go, go. And feeling that drain throughout the day.

And is there a way to work out how chunked down we should make a task? Now, starting a podcast is obviously something that's way too big, but how do we know when we've broken it down to the right level of minutiae, the right level of detail?

That's a great question. I think it depends on the person, right? But you want it to be something that you can accomplish within an hour or less is typically my gauge. And that may take some practice. Right? That's the other part of this is a lot of this is practice seeing what makes sense for you. I think productivity is incredibly personal. So you want to keep track of when are you most energized throughout the day. When are you most focused throughout the day. So it may take you an hour to outline a podcast in the morning because you're a morning person and you're focused and you're ready to roll. And if you want to do that in the afternoon, when you're less, when you're more distracted, that may take you two hours. Right? So also making sure that we're placing those things in the right spot is really important. But I think the task could take an hour or less if you can, if you can get it smaller, that's great. But we also don't want you to be overwhelmed with, you know, 100 tasks per project. Right. You want to balance that, that sense of what can be accomplished and that pacing.

And have you got any advice on trying to figure out how long a task will take? Because obviously we're doing a task we've never done before. We don't know. And like I said, we tend to totally overestimate what we can achieve in a short time, even in an hour. So often we will find that our task takes two hours or an hour and a half. And now we've already screwed up the rest of our time.

Yeah. So there's this really interesting piece, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, it's called Pareto's principle and it's that work expands to give the time it's allowed. So I think you have again, we have to practice this. Right. We have to. The only way you're really going to know is until you do it. But we have to make sure that we're not giving ourselves too much time because that enables us to start getting distracted. Right. Like oh, we have enough time. We're, this is where we're going to start seeing those procrastination techniques come into play. Or that a little bit of oh, I'll get to that later. Or oh, it won't take me that long. So I can go watch TV, I can go watch a YouTube video for a little bit of time first. So it's really just about experimentation with it and making sure you're working on it, like I said, at the right time of day so that you are the most focused.

Yeah, that's really good shout. And I think that's something a lot of people overlook. Like I'm really mindful that normally I'm much more alert first thing in the morning. So that's a time for me to do thinking things and you know, I have that lull like a lot of people do sort of mid afternoon and then get re energized at the end of the day. So I can plan my day. But tell us a bit more. So I've now got my to do list. I've made sure that all of the tasks are no more than an hour long. How do I go about prioritizing it? Because a lot of people will go, which of these tasks can I check off really quickly? I'll do those first. But that's not really the right way to go, is it?

Well, so I personally like the warm up approach. So I will give myself a little bit of a Runway in the morning with a couple tasks that are impactful Right. We don't want to just fill our day with busy work, but impactful, quick things. Those follow up emails, those steps that just move a project along. I also like to do first thing in the morning I come like getting the ball in the other person's court. Like anything where I need information from someone else in order to work on something later. That's when I do all that outreach. Like, hey, could you follow up with xyz? Right. We want to. You don't want to get to the project and realize you don't have all the information you need. So I do personally like a Runway. I'm also not a morning person, so I like to do my deeper work in the afternoon. But when you're prioritizing said you have your tasks, we have our blocks. How do we prioritize it? I think you then we want to look through the lens of our goal. So if the goal is to have another client by the end of the week. Right. That's really going to be more of having personal conversations make checking on conversations that are already in progress. Right. Versus creating that new Instagram post. Right. So we want to kind of again, keep that goal lens in mind and also just making those decisions of what, what's going to move me forward and what's going to build upon the project. That ultimate project goal too.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think a lot of people do have this mindset of I'll check off everything that I could do really quickly. But meanwhile those more difficult projects are sitting there and they're getting harder and harder in our head. We're telling ourselves stories, so we put it off. So that's why I kind of like, I do like the Runway analogy. That's a good point. But that's why I like. And actually I'm a bit of a fan of Michael Hyatt, which I know you will be familiar with. So I use my. And I've talked to lots of times on this podcast about morning rituals and evening rituals. So my morning ritual is my Runway, I guess into kind of getting into the day. For anybody who doesn't know what that is, it's just a case of having a way that you start your day and being consistent. So for me, like my anchor is make a cup of coffee. That's the first thing I do. And then, you know, do the usual things. Boot my computer up, check my emails, answer any emails that come in overnight that I can answer in that block of time. What's your thoughts around turning off distractions like your email or email dialogue, pop up boxes or social media. What's your thoughts on that?

Well, first I turn off all of the pinging and buzzing and anything that pops up at you, I just highly recommend you turn them off. There's almost nothing that's immediate response required within social media and email notifications and they're, they're just distracting. That's step one for as far as phone distractions because that's, it's just the reality that we live in and everybody is victim to this. And it's also not just so easy to say, well put on, do not disturb and don't talk to anybody for four hours. Right. For a lot of people, if you have a family, if you have kids or an elderly parent, you're taking care of that. That's just not really functional or feasible. I just discovered this great new function on the iPhone where you have these different kind of modes you can set up. And so I love having work mode because it's, I can have it so that people can still contact me, which is important to me. But all of the apps are gone on my homepage. So if I do open my phone for any reason, I'm not immediately distracted by anything. So that's a fantastic tool. There's another thing that you can do called Rise to Wake on the iPhone and if you turn that off when you grab your phone, the screen won't immediately light and so then you're just not also. It's a really subtle change, but it's pretty incredible because you're, you'll realize how distracting that actually is. And without that turned on, you're not going to see it.

I use it on my phone, love it.

Yeah, but just turn your email off while you're trying to do that deep work. I know it's hard. It's something that's so. We are so attracted to the rush that we get when we check a new email. It's like gambling. Right. We don't know what's going to be. Our brains are designed to be addicted to that, to email. But, but if you can.

What is that? Is it, is that an ego thing like wanting to be wanted? And I don't know what that. I've never kind of figured that out. But I know there's much more to it than just going, I must check my emails because my clients might be trying to contact me. It's more than that, isn't it?

Yeah, it's the, I'm forgetting the word for it, but it's essentially what a slot machine does. It's that inconsistent reward. So you don't know every time you check your email how many you're going to have. Is one of them going to be important? Is there going to be something exciting in there? We just don't know. And that unknown is what makes it really enticing for us. And so it is, I think it is a little bit of that ego. We all want to be important, we all want to be needed and kind of come to the rescue of whatever that question is. But just if you can take a step back, the reality is that very few things are urgent. And I think establishing how someone should get in touch with you, if you're. How a client should get in touch with you, if it is truly an emergency, you're. You might find that the email become. You become a little bit less reliant on checking that.

I mean, let's face it, if there's an emergency, someone's going to pick the phone up. They're not going to.

Exactly. Yeah.

I'm sure you see the same thing because you do this all day long. But when I'm doing any kind of time management training with people, I talk about this. There's always like, no, I couldn't possibly do that. I can't. There's no way I can turn my email off because my clients will get really upset with me. And I said, would you have service level agreements with your clients? And they're like, they usually have some kind of service level agreement. I say, well, that needs to be in these, stated in there. And you need to train your clients because let's face it, if you've got a service level agreement of answering a client within, say, six hours, which is reasonable, but you always answer the client immediately. Well, now the client expects you to always answer immediately. And when you suddenly don't, they are now disappointed. They've forgotten that they've got a service level agreement that says six hours. So I think, oh, it's, it's. It drives me crazy. And I've got to say, Chelsea, I sit on this pod doing these podcast interviews with guests and their flipping emails are pinging up. And you can see that. I'm glad I can say that, because yours aren't. Mine are, because mine's. Mine are always turned off.

I have all my turned off.

Yeah. But even having a guest who should sort of know that I shouldn't say, you know, I find it super distracting. So a client find that super distracting as well. So, guys, turn your email notifications off schedule. What three or four times in the day to check your emails. And that should be plenty enough, shouldn't it?

Yeah, those boundaries are, it's just so important to set those boundaries with clients, as you mentioned, and with yourself too. I mean, I love talking about inbox management, so you can find a lot of advice on there in all of my website and everything about how to start processing that.

Tell us a bit about that. I mean, I will make sure I put all the links to the appropriate content on your website, but because I, I was sitting with a client the other day and I looked at their Outlook box and it had something like 5432. I'm looking at mine now and it's got 437 in it. So that's not very good, is it? But tell us, what's your thoughts around Inbox?

The worst I've seen is 192,000. Wow, that's. That's my top. That's my worst yet. So the short version of my inbox management strategies and I didn't, I didn't invent this, this is just the model that I follow. But it's the four Ds of inbox management. So it's do or I'm sorry, I'm going to start with delete, delay, delegate and do. And again, this is pretty common. It's a great strategy, but I think what people get stuck on is how nuanced to make each one. So delete. Fairly obvious, right? If it's spam junk, you're not going to read it. But if it's spam or junk, you're not going to read it. Just also unsubscribe first. Take that millisecond to just hit the unsubscribe button to reduce the volume. And the other thing you can delete is duplicates. So, for example, we were scheduling this podcast, I got a confirmation email. That email went to my calendar. I don't need the email anymore. Everything is captured in the calendar invite. So that's just one thing. We've got to leave that. I think a lot of people feel like they need to hold on to those when really they're duplicated somewhere else. Delay in Gmail is called a snooze function. And Outlook, you can set a reminder that brings the email back into your inbox when you're ready to work on it. So this is super helpful to remind yourself of anything important you have to do, follow up, anything like that. But when, when you're going to take action on it and delegate is obviously just moving it to the next person. But the important part there is to delegate it and then put it to wherever folder belongs, get it out of your inbox, put it to file it appropriately, and then if you need to set up that reminder, you can partner it with delay and then do. That's the big step. Right. That's where we have to, like, dive in. But if you can use one of those, those four rules whenever you're checking your inbox, then you can trust that, like, none of the choices are open the email, skim it, mark it as unread, and leave it in your inbox. Right. Like, that is not one of the choices. So hopefully that will help you process much faster.

Yeah. And are you a believer in trying to get to Inbox zero every day?

I am an Inbox Zero person, but I know that that's not functional or interesting to any everybody. So teach their own there. I don't push that on anybody. But if you are overwhelmed by the number of emails in your inbox. And we can get to Inbox zero pretty fast.

Yeah. I mean, I always aspire to it. And so once every month I clean everything out and then think, why didn't I do that as I went along? Because I find it, you know, difficult to find things because there's too much in my inbox. So good advice. Let's talk more broadly about taking what we just talked about and applying it to project management. So I've got. I've got a number of client projects that I'm trying to juggle, which is a typical scenario for any kind of person working in the agency. What do you see people doing wrong around that? What do you see they can do better?

Yeah. So one of the important steps of project management is we all know, you know, you have a big goal, right. Like you're, let's say you want to do. I'm in the States. So when we want to have a Black Friday sale the day after Thanksgiving. So, okay, we have that date in mind. You need to remember to set a start date. And I think that's where a lot of people forget they map out their whole year and don't think about that. We need to back that up to start probably in September if you really want to give yourself the appropriate pacing. So set your goal date, but also remember to set a start date. And then we want to obviously break down just like we would in our to do list, what are the smallest possible steps you need to take for that project that are super actionable things that you can sit down and do in one setting at a time. What are all the pieces of it? What are all the tools and resources that you're going to need? Can you outsource it? Do you need a new website or function or tool or something to use? So think really broadly. And then I've also been adding this kind of risk management piece into it, which has been really reassuring for someone who's a little bit more anxious or if you have a lot you're managing, like kind of thinking about the things that could go wrong and making a plan for those. So let's say you have a huge social media strategy you want to roll out. Great. What if Instagram goes down? It's happened once. I'm, you know, it's what happens for a day or two at a time. It's great. I have my email list I can rely on. Well, if I have an email list I gotta rely on, I also need to make sure that I'm continuing to build up my email list. So how can I incorporate that into the project and into my goals for the year? So just kind of taking about thinking about all of those little pieces and creating kind of Plan B's a little bit for all of them can just be really reassuring along the way too. So I personally, I'm not a huge online tool user, which is interesting. I like Asana, but I'm actually more of a paper and plan, paper and pen kind of planner. But find the system that works for you, right? That's at the end of the day, you have to find the tool that's going to work best for you.

Yeah, I use Asana with my team, but I've also used Monday with a few clients and I've also used Trello in the past. So there are lots of tools out there, but I think you have to find one that will complement your workflow, not get in the way or not make it harder because you, you know, it doesn't quite do what you want it to do. So I think, and what's useful about having a tool like that is when you have teams who are in disparate places. So you've got a kind of shared project management system and everyone can see where everyone's at and what the next task is. So if you're listening and you're not using something like that, you should go and look into it because a lot of those tools are not expensive, but they will aid your workflow and make you more productive.

Absolutely. I like the deadline parts. I think they can be proactive with the deadlines and prompt you. And I think that's what's what I really appreciate about those tools.

Yeah. And you can integrate them into your email. So you get an email reminding of those deadlines and in a way talking about project management. You just need to apply exactly the same principles that we talked about in your to do list in a way, don't you? That it's the same thing. Like you need to have, like you say, your goal and breaking it down and working out what's important and communicating effectively with a client, but also, I guess, having a sense of how long things should take so that you know how much capacity you've got to take on additional work rather than just piling it on and then feeling very stressed and, you know, getting nothing done.

Yeah, I think, I mean, just give yourself. When it comes to project management, you're never going to regret giving yourself an extra week or two longer than you think because then you can again, account for those risk management pieces, account for the things that are going to come up and also give your space for when. When that green light project shiny object comes up, you can fit it in. Right. Because you're not cramming something else. I got a little bit behind schedule, so give yourself a little bit more time for bigger projects.

What's your view on this? I always tell people when they are planning their project or their to do list, that however long they think it should it's going to take, add 50% on top of that. So if I think it's going to take an hour, I'm going to schedule an hour and a half maybe, because as you said, that if you win back time, and that's fantastic, but that also accounts for everything that you couldn't possibly know and all those things that might happen that you couldn't possibly know. So, for example, if I'm working on a report and I've scheduled an hour and a half and it only takes me 50 minutes, but then I get that phone call from a client I hadn't scheduled and that that call takes half an hour or. Well, I sort of accounted for that because now I haven't. My to do list isn't thrown out the window because immediately your to do list goes out the window, people just sort of stop following it, don't they? And they just say, oh, well, I'll just get on with whatever the next he who shouts loudest task is.

Exactly. Yeah, we become very reactive. No big fan of a buffer. I think that's absolutely appropriate. And again, Just making sure that you're able to really focus during that time will obviously help with keeping things kind of moving along. Right.

I mean, if you are just putting these in place to start with, you want to set yourself up for success because if it works, you're more motivated to do it. But if it doesn't work, you know, it takes whatever they say, 21 days to change a habit. So if it doesn't work, it's very easy just to ping back to your natural state of chaos or whatever. Let's ask the last question and focus on procrastination, because I think we're all guilty of that. So what causes it and what can we do to overcome it?

Procrastination is one of my favorite topics because again, the kind of underlining of all of this is we got to do the work. Right? And so procrastination is caused by a couple different things, I think in terms of project management, typically the number one cause is we don't know we have an abstract goal. We don't know exactly what we're working on. We don't have those super actionable steps. So we. We're writing the task of create a podcast, which is unclear about what exactly that's going to look like. We're scared of it failing or not being perfect enough. We don't like some certain component of it. Right. I'm not a big tech person, so you struggle with setting up the tech behind it. So if you can give yourself really again, though, coming back to those really actionable steps, really thinking it through, determining what decisions you have to make ahead of time and making sure that you're not also procrastinating by making a decision. Right? Making a decision, trusting yourself and continuing to move forward. That can be really, really helpful. Breaking down those tasks and remembering at the end of the day. One thing I like to say and kind of going back to that ego piece of it is no one is paying more attention to your business than you. So it's okay to take some messy action and to just try it and see what happens. Because everybody has to start somewhere. We're going to get better. Trust that you're going to get better. Trust that you are going to come back to the task when you get a little bit distracted and put up the guardrails that you can. Right. Like time blocking and removing the distractions. Those are kind of the guardrails to keep us focused. But typically people are procrastinating because they don't know exactly what the goal is going to be. They're scared of failing. They're perfectionist, indecision and. Or they're waiting for a deadline. They need that pressure of a looming deadline.

I think the perfectionist is a big issue because I think by definition, a lot of entrepreneurs are kind of controlling perfectionists, and they need to realize that it's better to take messy action than it is to take no action. And you will learn something if you take messy action. You will learn nothing if you take no action. So I think that is a really good piece of advice. Have you got any other tips on, like, how to do this and also how to stop overthinking? Because I think one of the things that will stop a lot of people is overthinking and playing the scenario through in their heads to this end goal. And then believing whatever emotion is attached to the end goal is reality, when of course, it's not. They're just overthinking it. Like, oh, my God, if I start a podcast, I'm going to sound really stupid and no one will listen. And, you know, I've heard so many people fail before, and why would anyone want to listen to me? And they tell us all these stories that stops them from ever starting it.

Yeah. So, I mean, this is going to sound a little cliche, but it's like, so what's the worst that's going to happen? And then so what? I mean, we all get to try something and not be good at it the first time. And again, I know that feels really cliche to say, but that messy action piece has been so rewarding for me because, yeah, I'm. I cringe hard when I listen to the first episode of my podcast, and I'm not even really that far in, but I know that even however many episodes I'm in now, it's so much better than when it started. And think back to a time when you've seen someone that you look up to make a mistake and how that changed what you thought about that. And most likely it didn't even really register. Most likely, you still follow them, you still appreciate their work, you still look to them as an authority in the subject.

So I think in a way, that is part of the issue that we look at these people that we really admire that seem to have it all sussed out. But what we don't realize is that they went through the messy middle piece in their journey. You just aren't seeing it. You're seeing the shiny, successful bit at the end, and you want that immediately. But you forget they had years of this journey to get there. So don't be afraid of trying things, don't be afraid of making a mistake. But whatever you commit to stick at it. That's the. When I. You've probably seen this statistic. When I decided to start my podcast nearly four, three years ago, I saw a statistic that the average number of podcast episodes someone makes before they quit is seven. And that actually stopped me starting for a while because I said to myself, I have to be able to do this week in and week out and get beyond 7. And here we are. I think this is going to be like episode 150. So just stick at it and, you know, don't expect. I think we live in a world of immediate response and immediate. We want this immediate. What's the word I'm looking for? Success.

Overnight success.

Yeah. It doesn't exist. Nothing. None of that exists. Despite what people tell you, you have to stick at it. So really interesting conversation. I know people will find value and this, even if they're hearing things they've heard before, that that doesn't matter because we need to be told the same things we've heard before to be reminded of them, don't we? Let me ask you the question I ask all my my guests, Chelsea. So if you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice just starting out in business, what would it be?

I think it goes along perfectly with our conversation, but my advice would be change your because how my business started is not like it looks today. I have different services, different ideal client, and I was so scared for so long to change my mind because I was worried about what other people would think. I was worried about looking indecisive or flaky. My business. But the end of the day, it's your business. You get to do whatever you want. You get to do what you're good at. So if you're ready to change your mind, if you want, are inspired by something else, go for it. You don't need anyone's permission, just go for it.

And we were saying before we jumped on air that most of the time I don't hear the same piece of advice twice. For our 50, 60 plus guests that we've had, and I don't think we've had that one either. So that's good. So if people wanted to find out more about you, Chelsea, and your services, where would they go?

Sure. So the best place to find me is on Instagram and that's elsiencoaching and it's Chelsea with a Y. And then you can find more about me and all my services on my website, which is chelseinumeyer.com oh, and I also have a podcast called From Overwhelmed to Under Control.

I'm just typing furiously as you say that to we'll make sure we share all of those links in the show notes. And I just want to say a big thank you for joining us today, sharing some nuggets of wisdom which I hope will be valuable for people and get people thinking a bit differently and getting themselves super organized.

Thank you so much.

Sam.