Why you should embrace failure with Miha Matlievski

Welcome to the latest episode of the Agency Accelerator Podcast. Today I'm excited to have my guest, Micha Milioski with me and he talks about his business failure and how he rose from the ashes and what key lessons he's learned along the way. He discusses the importance of having a solid foundation before we try to scale our agency. And we also discuss the need to embrace potential failure and and step outside of our comfort zones because this is the only place that we grow now. We also discuss mindset and how sometimes we need to get out of our heads and get out of our own way. We explore what emotional intelligence means and how as agency owners, we really need to develop that in ourselves before we develop it in others. And finally, Miha has some really great insights into things that you need to focus on when you are just starting out or wanting to grow your agency. So this is a little bit of a different episode, but one that is full of really good, actionable advice. So let's get on with today's show. Accelerate your agency's profitable growth with tools, tips and value added interviews with your host agency owner and coach, Rob Dacosta. Welcome to another episode of the Agency Accelerator podcast. I am really excited to have with me Miha Milioski today, and I'm sure Meha will correct me on pronunciation of the surname, and he is a really interesting guy. I think our fear of failure can keep us in our comfort zone. So when I read about Miha's story, I was keen to have him on the show. Now, I love stories and I'm definitely a storyteller, and this is a really great story to tell. So before I hand over to Michael, let me give you a potted history. And Michael, you can fill this in with a bit more detail. So, at 18 years old, Micha, a Slovenian high school dropout, dreamed of becoming a successful entrepreneur. And he pursued it with a passion, putting in 12 years of hard work that resulted in four successful businesses and a personal net worth of $15 million. But in 2009, an unexpected call from his bank, who had decided to foreclose on his real estate investments, brought his world crashing down around him. And that one negative event instigated an avalanche of ruin for him and his businesses, resulting in his four once successful companies going bankrupt and ending with significant debt. Now, as you can imagine, this failure put Micha in a massive slump, and he spent a lot of time beating himself up about it. However, in 2014, he, embracing his previous failure, Micha created a new startup which rapidly grew in its first year. And since Micha's resurrection, he's been known as the fail coach. And in that capacity, he helps entrepreneurs around the world embrace and have a healthy relationship with failure, with the goal of reaching a higher level of success. So that is what I wanted to talk to Micha about today, that fear of failure and how it can trap us. So, first of all, Micha, welcome to the show. Is there anything else you wanted to add about your backstory?

Well, hello, Rob. It's a huge pleasure to be here as your guest. Thank you for inviting me. And, I mean, there's plenty we can add to that. The struggles, the emotions, either going from bankruptcy all the way to the suicide moment or after that. Because, you know, sometimes when I tell the story, there was this aha moment just seconds before the suicide. But it wasn't just roses and sugar candy after that. It was a huge inner battle, inner struggle with the old mija, the new mija, and so on. So there's plenty. We can talk about that if you want to.

Yeah, I'm interested in the aha moment and what that was and how that kind of galvanized you into action to start your new business. And I guess also how you took something so negative and turned it into something super positive to help other people with.

Yeah, sure, like, so we have to back away a little bit. And so on that day, December 7, 2009, I got a call from the bank. One of my businesses was in real estate. I was an investor through that business into a huge real estate project. Several tens of millions worth of investment. And we were in the middle of building it. And because of the financial crisis, real estate prices dropped so significantly that suddenly the whole project was unviable. It would just create a huge loss. And then the bank said, we want out. And I had all my other businesses, plus myself, co signing for that loan from that bank. And as you know, in Europe, they can just go after the co signers and take the money and all the assets that they can get their hands on. So it literally took one single day for me to go from being wealthy to next day owing $5 million. Yeah, I ended up $5 million in personal debt without an option to do personal bankruptcy. In the beginning, I didn't really grasp the whole what happened to me. I was in the, I guess, survival mode, you know, oh, I can solve it. I'm going to try and solve it. And I made a list of ideas, you know, like, oh, let's try to make a deal here or this here or that. But because of the overall impact of the financial crisis, none of those ideas were, you know, able to come true. So it was only a few weeks later when I really realized, you know, oh, I ain't gonna solve this. And it took me quite a few months. Slowly going into depression, slowly going into anxiety. Slowly that nuclear reactor in my head was building up, you know, from all the pressure, stress, everything happening. And then, you know, slowly darkness came into me without seeing any possibility, anything that you can solve and do. And you know, oh, this is the new reality, I guess, and this is it for the rest of my life. Like, this is going to be my daily struggle. And you know, when you start thinking like that, you start considering suicide and, and then you start considering it more and more and more. And so, yeah, one evening, it was in the spring of 2010, I was smoking a cigarette on my balcony, an apartment that just a few days later will be taken away from me. And I don't know what got into me, but I just climbed over the fence and I remember I was holding myself with my left hand. I was already like 45 ish degrees inclined over the, over the edge. And I was looking down and I was only on the fifth floor. You know, when you're on the 20th floor, that's a no brainer. If you jump, you know you're gonna die. But on the fifth floor, there is a chance that you can actually survive that jump. And I was looking down and I was thinking, am I going to do this right or will I fail at this as well? And then this burst of very juicy language, which I'm not going to repeat on your podcast, just came flying out of me. It was like one miha yelling at another, Mija, you know, you messed up this, you made this decision, you made that decision. And it was really hearing myself repeat the word, you, you, you, you, you. That kind of created that aha moment where I was, well, if I made all those mistakes and I was able to still accumulate so much, I can do it again and I can do it better if I do things differently. Like that was my real aha moment at that time. And the thing was, the biggest lesson was that I had no foundations in my businesses. Now, this may sound strange. How were you able to get to that point of wealth and all your business is going to seven, eight, multiple eight figures and so on. But I was riding the good wave of the whole macroeconomic situation before the crash. In the few years before that crash, everything was blooming, you know, like whatever you were building Apartment wise, everything would be sold. Companies had a lot of money, people had a lot of money. So it was not that hard to create a successful business just based on marketing and sales. The thing was that without the foundations, when the crisis came, that's when things start breaking. And that's why, you know, the biggest message that I'm trying to bring awareness to when I do this podcast, interviews and so on, is that you, as the entrepreneur, you need to focus first and foremost on building solid foundations for your business. Otherwise, when you know something happens in the whole economy, you might not survive the way I didn't.

I think, first of all, that is a terrible but great story. I'm sure many of us can relate to that. Maybe not as extreme as you've described, but. But how when you have a plan to build your business and suddenly things don't go as planned, how do you cope? Now you talk about building a great foundation. Can you just give us a few examples of what you mean by that?

Well, you know, for example, one of the foundations is how you manage your cash flow and also how you have a certain cushion in place if something happens. Another thing is processes, duplicatable, verified processes that you can repeat over and over and over where you don't rely on certain people, but you rely on systems and processes in place. That gives you the freedom, having KPIs in place. Because when you have KPIs in place and when you know how to benchmark that and how you can have like a business intelligence tool on top of it so that you can quickly see what's happening, you can react to failure faster, you can actually see, oh, you know, this is not working, we better do something. But when you don't have any system in place, you don't even know, you know, you think. And the thing with failure is that it creates emotions and we start thinking emotionally. It's, you know, I feel, I think. And that emotions cloud our vision. So the cure to failure is logic. So one of the things that I had to learn on my bouncing back was, now, this might sound funny, but it was actually being mindful throughout the day. So being present, because that's the only way that you can switch off the autopilot, otherwise you react on the autopilot. My autopilot got me where I was. So if I want to be in a different position, I need to switch it off and create a new, better autopilot. So mindfulness played a huge role in that. And then emotional intelligence, because like I said, most of the Time we entrepreneurs or we human beings, we react with emotions when logic is needed and vice versa. And emotional intelligence gives you that knowledge and understanding. When do we need to use what? Because when failure happens, it's not because God doesn't want you to succeed or something like that. This is something we often tell ourselves. It's really just something was wrong in your process. You were either doing wrong steps or you had bottlenecks that you didn't saw and eliminate. It's either of those two. Then there is no third option for failure to happen.

So can I just pick up a few, few of those points? Because you are sort of speaking my language in a way. So I think first of all, companies that don't spend time putting this foundation in place, it's kind of like building an extension on your house without putting the foundations in. What's going to happen? It's going to ultimately fall down. So, you know, we see sort of like a business growth cycle as a kind of a curve, when in fact it's not a curve, it's actually a step. And those steps are put the platform or the foundations in place to grow, and then you grow and then you put the next set of foundations or platforms in place to grow.

I want to jump in because, yes, you're using the exact analogy that I always use. When you like, building a business is like building a house. If you want to build one family home, you put in foundations for that. After a few years, you say, oh, you know what, I want to build a skyscraper in place of this house. The first thing is you go back to foundations, you create foundations for the skyscraper, then you start building up. Exactly. Like I'm always using the same analogy. I love it. And yeah, it's a step. Think when I work with my clients, it's like the first step is, okay, where do we want to be in about two years time? Because if we built two big foundation for, let's say where we want to be in 10 years time, we will have a huge overhead that will drag down our profitability or we will even do minus at the end of the year. So what I try to look is, is two to three years in advance and then you build the foundation first, then you start growing and so many things that first you grow and then you go back and build foundation. It doesn't work that way.

Yeah, and that's the, that's the challenge. I mean, a lot of small businesses grow organically. They don't take on a lot of funding to do it. And so they feel like they can't put this platform in place. But if you don't do that, first of all, then you're just going to have a really hard time. Your whatever has helped you grow, which is probably you will quickly become the bottleneck.

Yes.

One of the other points that you made that I just want to pick up on again, because I'm something I really concur with, and this is a whole podcast in itself. But it's just this understanding that if we have negative thoughts about ourself or our business, that creates negative feelings. And when we have those negative feelings, we believe them to be facts. And so those negative feelings create negative actions or negative behaviors, and it's a vicious triangle, if you like that. Negative behaviors then create more negative thoughts which create more negative feelings and so on. So if we want to change the outcome, that's the behavior or the action, we need to change how we think. And obviously that's something that you went through and did a massive flip from blaming yourself for everything that happened to actually saying, okay, I need a plan. I need to do some things differently.

Yeah, I mean, it was actually when I took responsibility because, you know, at that time, I'm sure you remember, you know, 2009 and 10 and so on.

Absolutely.

It was so easy to find something outside of you to blame. You know, the crisis, the Lechman brothers, you know, you blame it on the USA because they didn't do things. Things to prevent it. You blame it on the European Union and the European bank and then the national bank and the national politics. It was just so easy to find some. Somebody or something outside of you to blame. And everybody was doing that. And, you know, it's only when you take full responsibility, when you take that. What, what's called, you know, the extreme ownership, when the magic happens. Because when you blame things on something or somebody outside of you, you can't do anything until that somebody or that thing changes that situation or something. So you put yourself in a passive situation, in a passive state of mind. And that's not what will bring any results. And then, you know, when you are in passive situation, you can't do anything. So you spend your whole day just waiting. And you know what happens when you have to wait too much free time? You. You start making up stories that are crazier than Hans Christian Andersen could ever come up with, you know, so that. That's what happens, you know, and, and. But when you take full responsibility, even for the things that aren't necessarily fully, you know, something that you messed up, but, you know, just take the ownership of everything. But then you put yourself in an active state of mind. Then your brain goes, what can I do? How can I change? Okay, I'm lacking a whole lot of resources. Do I have any leverages? What can I do with what I have? And so on, and you start moving. And of course, in the beginning, and especially when you owe $5 million, it seems like you will never reach that goal. But little by little, you start creating the momentum. And then at one point things just start clicking together.

Absolutely. And it's really interesting that, you know, one of the top reasons people cite for wanting to start their own business is that they want to be in control. They've probably been fed up of the fact they've worked for somebody else or they've been part of a big organization and they haven't had the control they want. So they say, okay, I want to be in control of my own destin. But of course, what goes with wanting to be in control is absolutely 100% taking responsibility. And it's funny how people say they want to be in control, but then they don't always take responsibility. We're just sort of moving the story forward a bit. Can you share with the audience some advantages of embracing potential failure not in such a wide scale space as your business failing, but just in terms of things going on in your business. What's the advantage of embracing failure as opposed to avoiding it?

I mean, the easiest one is failure will happen whether you want it or not. Now, some people might not call it failure. They will say mishaps, roadblocks, you know, but, you know, regardless of the vocabulary, failure will happen whether you want it or not. It's the same as, you know, one day we will all gonna die, we all have to pay taxes or the taxman will always find us. And, and failure is just a normal part of our lives. Now when you look at entrepreneurs, we entrepreneurs have above average crazy dreams and goals. You know, somebody who is going just to a 9 to 5 job probably doesn't have the dream to, you know, change the world, to go to Mars, to impact millions and so on. This is something that's very common with entrepreneurs. And so the crazier, the bigger your dream and your goal, the more you have to put yourself out of the comfort zone. Because if you don't yet have that, if you haven't yet achieved that, well, then your comfort zone is preventing you from achieving that. So, you know, nothing magical ever happens in the comfort zone. So the crazier the bigger your dream, the more you will have to be outside of the comfort zone. The more you're doing things for the first, second time, the bigger the likelihood of you not succeeding on your first try. I think the biggest failure is when you try to avoid failure and you just stay in the comfort zone because then you're not going for your dreams. That's a real failure.

Yeah. And there is absolutely no way someone can say, okay, I'm going to start my own business and, and I'm going to stay in my comfort zone. Because there's always going to be something new that you have to do when you are running your own business. Whether that be walking into a room of strangers to go networking, standing up in front of an audience to present or pitch, or learning how to manage your finances, there's always going to be something to do. So if you don't step out your comfort zone, especially at the beginning of running your business, then you are going to fail. Right. There's, there's no, no kind of two ways about it.

I mean, nobody was born the perfect entrepreneur. We all have some skills, lack some skills, have some mindsets, lack some mindsets, and so on. So, you know, nobody was just born the perfect entrepreneur. Well, yes, maybe they had, you know, entrepreneurial upbringing at home and that, you know, puts them at an advantage, but that's more or less it. Most of us, we all have to do a bit of work for the things that we are lacking. Now, maybe I'm very good at going out there and networking, but then I hate doing the bureaucracy. And in the beginning, where I don't have the resources and the funds to outsource or employ somebody to do that bureaucracy for me, I just have to do it.

Yeah, absolutely. I kind of sometimes say to myself, you know, you just have to get on and do those things that you don't want to do until you can find a way of outsourcing them to other people. I think a lot of this is mindset, right? So if you are starting a business, you need to have a really positive mindset. And you need to realize that in order to achieve those ambitions that you have, you've got to step outside of your comfort zone. And I always say that there's three zones as your comfort zone. There's your learning zone and there's your fear zone. And the key to this is to step out into your learning zone, because that's where we learn and develop, and that's where we make our comfort zone bigger. But if we step constantly into Our fear zone, it feels sort of too scary. So I think everybody needs to work out what that learning zone space is and feel the fear and do it anyway and just get on and get out there.

Yeah, I mean, you know, in all honesty, as the fail coach in the past few years I worked with new startups, just an idea, nothing else, all the way to companies that are making 7, 8, 9 figures and so on. And you know, I always of like work with the entrepreneurs and every single time they are the first pillar of that company. And every single time if, if something is not the way it should be, you first have to deal with it on the inside with you, the entrepreneur and then go on the outside and deal with it there as well.

Absolutely. Good advice. So I know in your coaching today you, you talk a lot about emotional intelligence, but can you talk to me about the importance of emotional intelligence as an entrepreneurial business owner?

Yeah, sure. I mean emotional intelligence is a huge topic and I always invite everybody who I talk to and all my clients to dive into it more than what's just necessary for the business. But basically in business the thing that is the most important is for you to start understanding yourself, how you function and really understanding when is the right time to use what, when it's time for emotions, when it's time for logic. Like that's what's most important when it comes to emotional intelligence in your business. But in general, yeah, I always invite people like go do a few, read a few books. What's one thing with this soft skills is they're not, you know, I can just learn them the way I can learn, I don't know, coding. You have to practice them and it takes a lot of practice before they become your new nature.

When you're working with a business with a number of staff, say it's like a 20 man agency, the agency owner will recognize the importance of emotional intelligence and ask you to work with other people. But are not so willing to work on their own emotional intelligence sometimes. And they are often the people that are the bottlenecks for growth in their business.

I mean the hardest work is always the work on yourself. You know, it's so much easier to help others see things for others and so on. The hardest work you will ever do in life is the work on yourself. Of course that, that's also the work that will reward you the most. But it's not easy, it's not easy to sit down with yourself. It's not easy to acknowledge that there are things that you need to work on and so on. There's plenty of, it's so easy to do with others than to do things with yourself. And also what I see, which is mind blowing is even for simple things like, let's say, I don't know, Rob, do, do you love cooking or is that something you don't really do very regularly?

No, I love cooking. I'm not sure I'm a great cook, but I really enjoy cooking. It's a good switch off from work.

Okay, okay, so that might not be the best, but let's imagine that, you know, like you don't really like cooking. And then, you know, you have a date, somebody really dear and close to your heart. You know, maybe all you know how to do is open a packet of pre made something and reheat it. And so, you know, obviously you don't want to do that for that date. You want to make something special. So you decide, oh, I want to bake a cake. Like you would go and research, maybe you'll, you would call your, I don't know, mom or grandma or aunt or somebody in the family who's really good at baking and so on. But when it comes to business, most people think that we have to do everything by ourselves and that we have to figure things out by ourselves. There's so much information out there, from free to of course programs, coaching, mentorships and so on, which you have to pay for. But so much information is out there. But people just try to reinvent the wheel every single time and they bang their brains on out trying to figure out how to do certain things. And most of entrepreneurs are making it hard for themselves by not reaching out and accepting help from the outside, does that make sense?

I completely agree with you. And it's kind of the mission I'm on really is to make it a more enjoyable journey for people. People get very fixated on the destination. I, you know, 5 million turnover or something. But they forget that actually they need to enjoy the journey because they may never get to the destination or the destination may change.

And it's not just that it can change, but the only way to reach that goal is if you, if your steps from today to that goal are aligned with that goal. So if you are doing the wrong steps or you have bottlenecks, you might not reach that goal. And then the whole hell breaks loose and oh, I failed and so on. But in reality you just were making the wrong steps perhaps.

Absolutely. Yeah. So tell me, if you were talking to someone, if you were doing some work with someone who was thinking about starting his or her own agency. Or maybe they're freelancing and they're contemplating growing from a solopreneur into a full blown agency. But they're very nervous about doing that. What would be the advice you would give them?

I mean, fear of failure is really simple. It's really fear of the unknown. We set a goal or we have a wish, a dream and we have no clue how to get there. When we have clarity, we have focus and then we just do stuff. Am I right?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes you just go find somebody who can, who knows how to get there. And again, there's plenty of free resources out there as well and paid resources. But just find somebody who already is where you want to be or who helps people to be where you want to be and just listen to them. And often what people also do is they try to filter. So you know, I'm going to follow you Rob, I will do what you are saying, but just the things that I want to do and I will skip the ones that don't feel good to me. And you know, if I don't do everything as you tell me and I just opt in to do half of the steps, but because the other half doesn't feel right, I'm not going to do it well, I'm not going to achieve the results.

Such good advice. I always tell people, look, surround yourself by people who are have been there and done it or who are several steps away from you and learn as much as you possibly can from them. And like you say, that could be by getting a coach or a mentor. It could be just having some allies in your network that you can talk to to. It could be using some free online content. I think we live in a double edged sword of a world at the moment because there's so much information out there, but there's also a lot of information out there. It's information overload and it can be quite hard to find. Really good advice. So I know if you can find yourself a mentor or someone in your network that can support you, that can be a trusted ally that you know is in your corner, then that is really going to help you. I mean, same with you I'm sure. Me, I'm all about trying to help my clients not make some of the mistakes I've made or not make some of the mistakes I've seen other clients make. And so, you know, giving them that roadmap of how to get there, giving them some kind of tried and tested tools, it's giving them the best chance of having a reasonably smooth journey on the way to achieving their goals.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's how the whole thing works. It's as easy as that. You can try doing it the hard way, which is, you know, not a bad thing because then you will learn the most. And who knows, maybe a few years from now you will be the coach, you know, to others. If, if you just do what the coach tells you, you won't have so much experience along the way. So you might be successful at that. But maybe that won't really qualify you to teach others because you just know the one way that you did for yourself now when you do a lot of mistakes. But that's not for everybody. Not everybody is mentally strong and mentally ready to overcome a lot of roadblocks on their journey. So, you know, there's plenty of ways how you can smooth up that journey by just reaching out to people. You said it really nicely. Like, yes, we live in this age of infobesity where there's just way too much of everything out there. What I usually say to everybody is when you, even if you, you know, if you say, oh, I'm going to decide to follow this book, that's a relationship. That book is a tool that you will use that will guide you on that journey. So that's a relationship. Whenever it's relationships, you have to do a bit of dating. It's, you know, like you can't just go out, have a few beers, have a one night stand and then instead of morning coffee, pop the question. But often people do that, you know, they see an ad, they click on it, they go to a webinar and bam, you know, they decide and buy something pretty pricey and then only later figure out that it's not what they were expecting. So just do a little bit of the due diligence, do a little bit of dating, see if that person really walks the talk, see if. What are some of the testimonials saying? Reach out to a few people who left those testimonials, ask them about their experience and so on. So it's really not that hard to do a little bit of dating before we, you know, marry somebody. I don't know, often I see people don't even taking a little bit of time. And then of course they opted in for something. It's not what they expected. They're not making the results they wanted because maybe it's just not a good fit or I mean, you are in marketing and advertising, you know, like often these gurus will say, you know, you don't need any pre qualification, any knowledge, anything like just you were just born and you can come in here and in the next 15 days you will become a millionaire. It's not like that. Things don't work that way. A blueprint doesn't, doesn't really work that way. You always have to adopt it to specific resources. Maybe you, Rob, your friend is a huge Instagram influencer. So when you created your funnel, a friend of yours mentioned you a few times and bam, you know, your funnel was a six figure success very quickly. But if I, and now I want to learn how to do that as well. But if I don't have the privilege to have, you know, that same influencer in my corner doing the same for me, it might take me way more longer than what it took you to get to the six figure mark. So you know, you always have to be a bit careful when somebody's talking about blueprints and exact steps and so on because we all have different starting point.

I feel really strongly about this. I think we live in a world of instant gratification and we see so much stuff out there that says, you know, I made eight figures in my sleep, I'm going to teach you how to. And it's just baloney. It's just absolute. There is no substitute for this simple equation which says do the right things, do them frequently enough, do them to the right audience and you'll, you'll hit your goals. There is no magic shortcut to that. And I think people live in this instant gratification world which is made even worse because of all the kind of advertising that we see, these false promises and they, they're usually with a picture of someone standing by a private jet or by swimming pool or something and really annoy me.

If you are honest, you know, to your potential clients, you, you can't tell them like, you know, oh, in no time you'll be a millionaire. If you have resources, then yes, then you can do things pretty quickly you like. For example, my last startup, I went from day one to the first year we made multiple eight figures in revenue and then multiple nine figures in the second year. And you know, wow, mind blowing numbers. But I was leveraging on so many things along that journey and even before I started, I was leveraging off on, on 15 years of building relationships with the right people and so on who really helped me speed up that process. I can give you the exact blueprint, but if you don't have those resources that were available to Me, the leverages. You might probably not even hit six figures in the first year. There's, yeah, a lot of. A lot of baloney out there to not use any other language. Because people. Yeah, because people. Yeah, they just want to make a sale. They want to sell. And yeah, this is like a topic that gets me going every single time. But the thing is, if I think it's.

It's a whole other podcast as well. Yeah. If.

If people who you are buying from are not honest about the things that they went through, not just the good things, but also the bad things, if they try to create this story that everything was just success, success, success, because they found a magic pill, run away from them. Because no entrepreneurial journey has ever happened without the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's. Behind every successful story is years of struggle. We just often don't hear about the years of struggle. And I really appreciate your honesty about your journey because. Because one of the reasons why I started this podcast is because, A, I love. I love podcasting, but B, is because I wanted to be really honest and I wanted to have people on the podcast who could share their stories, both the good, the bad, and the ugly, and not just be one that says, hey, guys, I've done this amazing thing. You can do it too, because it just doesn't ring true. Now, I've got one more question to ask you, and this is a good one to ask you because. And it's one that I ask all my guests, and that is if you could go back in time and give your younger self, who was just starting out in business, one piece of advice, what would it be?

I always say these two things. So the number one thing is develop healthy relationship with failure. It's a logical one, not an emotional one. And lay down strong foundations, first in you and then in whatever you do.

Brilliant advice. I get such good answers to that question, and I think I need to take all the podcasts and put them into something that I can share with everyone, because that is such good advice. And, you know, if we take that advice, we're going to make our journeys just a little bit easier. Now, Micha, if people want to find out more about you, read more about you, or get in touch with you, what should they do?

Well, the easiest thing for them to do is just to head on to Google and just search for fail. Coach. I'm still the only one. So the first few pages of Google results will be all the different platforms and podcasts and this and that. That I've done in the past, and then they can just choose whichever platform they want to connect with me on.

Fantastic. Well, that's nice and simple, isn't it? I really appreciate your time today. There's been lots of great nuggets of wisdom that I know people are going to take from this episode. And if I'm honest, there's also been some good reminders to me about making sure that you're present and, you know, embracing the fear of failure and just stepping out of our comfort zone. So I really appreciate your time today.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that, you know, I had the opportunity to be here with you and to share with the new audience the awareness of laying down the right foundations.

Well, I hope you found that episode useful. It was certainly an interesting insight to some of the things that we need to get right from a mindset perspective and an approach when we want to grow our agencies. Now, as ever, if you found this episode useful, please consider leaving a review so that others find it. And of course, hit the subscribe button so that you make sure you're alerted every time a new episode goes live. Until then, I hope you have a great rest of the week and I will see you next Thursday.