Working with white-label partners with Steve Slotow

Hey everybody. I hope you are having a fantastic week and welcome to the latest episode of the Agency Accelerator podcast. In today's episode I am talking with Steve Sloto from Globitel Marketing and we're talking everything to do with resourcing and working with white label partners, how to pick a partner, when you should outsource, and why you should outsource. So this is another action packed episode and let's get on with today's show. Accelerate your agency's profitable growth with tools.

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Host agency owner and coach, Rob DaCosta.

So welcome to today's episode of the Agency Accelerator podcast. I am really excited to have Steve Sloto with me. He is the director of operations at Globetel Marketing and Globatel offers digital agencies around the world access to wholesale white label digital marketing solutions including SEM, SEO, social media, lead generation, web design and copywriting campaigns. So Steve, welcome to the podcast. This is an interesting episode and an interesting topic rather. It's one that I talk frequently to my clients about. So I thought it would be really great to have you on the show. So do you want to give us a little bit more background on yourself and on global as well?

Yeah, sure. How's it drop? Thank you. And listen, thanks for having us. You know, it's always nice to meet other digital people doing media, you know, creating content. I think it's a big, big thing in the digital industry. You know, we all talk about the importance of content but very few of us actually get around to doing much of it. So good to be to know that you're out there doing it regularly. Yeah, for sure. Globatel, you know, pretty straightforward, was started a few years ago, about five, six years ago by my partner, Damian Papworth. He's out in Australia. He's an ex agency owner himself, ran a digital agency for many years and sold it off. And when he went to make his next move, you know, he saw an opportunity to, he was working with a team in Pakistan who were, he was using for his agency and he just basically, you know, approached him and said guys, let's, let's start a wholesale business. You know, there's a lot of digital agencies out in Australia that could really benefit from having a, a partner who, who, who they can rely on to do resourcing and that sort of thing. And I think straight off the bat one of the keys that Damo sort of head headed out for was because he had run his own digital agency, he was very sensitive to the to the frustrations that digital agency owners around the world feel. You know, things like we, you know, most digital agencies have tried a resource out in Pakistan or India or Eastern Europe, you know, or someone on father or apdes or all of these sort of solutions. You know, a lot of agencies have tried them and most more often than not they walk away quite disillusioned, let down. You know, maybe the, maybe the freelancers or they just disappear with the work and they never, you know, they get paid and they disappear and they. Each email account doesn't work. So, you know, that sort of was one of the main frustrations that I think Damien was trying to solve with it. But there were a few other key frustrations that I think he looked at. You know, things like being charged in local currency. You know, we're so used to being charged in American dollars. Makes a big difference if you're in South Africa or you're in New Zealand and you're getting charged in New Zealand dollars, you know, standardized flat rates for an SEO campaign or a blog. But billing, you know, that's another one is often when you work with a, with a retailer or a wholesaler, they'll. The engagement starts off with how nice to meet you. What's your credit card details. And you know, it doesn't really harness much trust or build much trust in the relationship. You don't know what you're getting straight off the bat. So that's what we try lobby to try and remove some of those frustrations. And we win and we lose. There's ups and downs. Obviously not all agencies are right for us and I'll talk a bit about that. You know, obviously it's. We talk about, you know, resourcing and outsourcing but yeah, that was sort of how the, how the business got started. I joined Damo four or five years ago as well as a copyright and more as a bringing in the copyright from South African perspective. English first language and we're cheap. You know, our Rand is not so strong. So it was a good, good solution for copywriting. And off we went. You know, since then we've just built the, built the engagement up to. We're now in, you know, a bunch of countries all over the world. We've got our main teams in Pakistan. But you know, I think the, the real key to how we work and how we're different to those updates and freelancers and those sorts of things is that we really try to partner up with the agency. We see ourselves as sort of caretakers and support system. We're a support structure, not the most exciting business in the world. We're not a fancy digital agency with cool artwork on the wall, but we're behind the scenes of those agencies saying, hey, listen, you know, local resources are expensive. Why don't you. Why don't you rather, you know, use us for an SEO campaign? You just. Are you trying to do a web project that's expensive, use us kind of thing? So that's sort of where. Where global kind of comes in and fits into the picture and how we see ourselves. You know, it's not a. As you know, the digital industry is not an easy. Not an easy one. It's competitive, unfriendly, cutthroat, so we try to be that nurse, caretaker, hold our hand, we'll walk you through it with us kind of thing.

So in my experience, as agencies grow, they think about how they can provide their customers with a more diverse range of services, or their customers might be asking them for it. And at that stage, they've got to decide, do they bring those skills in house or do they work with a partner such as yourselves? So what's your views on that? And what advice would you give an agency when they're at that crossroads?

Cool. Well, look, I think, you know, obviously each agency is different, and each agency's got to walk their own path and make their own decisions. What we find quite often is a lot of digital agencies, and there are a lot of digital agencies, especially during COVID now, we've seen this low barrier to entry, everybody starting a digital agency. A lot of digital agencies start out because somebody's created something, so they're a great graphic designer, they're a great web designer, and so they build a few websites and they realize, hey, listen, I've got an app for this. I'm pretty good at it. I can start charging people for it. And then they grow to a point where they require help. They get too busy, and, you know, we're not. Not everyone's built for business. And I think that that sort of journey that you walk around being great at web design or graphic design or copywriting, whatever it is, and understanding when a business needs help and what the next step for your business and the next evolution for your business is important because as you've asked, like, what is the advice about when they get to that stage? A lot of digital agencies don't even recognize that they're at that stage. You know, they recognize that, hey, listen, I've gotten busier. That means I've got to work nights now. That means I've got to work week, you know, and they don't recognize that it's actually time to look for help and to evolve my business. When that does happen, you know, we're just there for the agencies that need the help and when they're ready, they come talk to us and hopefully we can make it work with them. We don't obviously force or prescribe that they must use an outsourced solution. But, you know, I would say that, you know, if you're great at web design and that's what you do best and you, and you're growing in your web design department, it's often best to, if it's something you want to keep close to your heart, hire another web designer and grow your team that way, because then you have the control. And what made your business great, what got your agency started, what your secret sauce and what your inner geniuses as an agency you can keep that control over. But when that web designer starts getting queries from clients that they've built websites for to say, hey, listen, thanks for building great website, but I'm on page 72 of Google. How do you, can you help me out with SEO? I would say that at that stage, you know, when, when an, when an agency, and obviously we talk about small to medium agencies or even smaller in small than medium agencies, when you get to that stage, that's, that's a, that's a time when you should start looking out, I would suggest, for a partner of some kind because it's quite expensive if you are a web design genius, it's quite expensive and difficult to go out into the UK market and start hiring an SEO pro, that becomes something that's, that can be prohibitively expensive. It can break you. You know, all of a sudden you're now managing a manager of SEO and you don't know anything about SEO, so you don't know if you're getting ripped off by this person. You don't know if they grade what they do. You know, and it's expensive upfront. You know, those UK or any country in the west, our resources are expensive. So that's, that's stage when I think an agency should really consider what can I get out of it, out of a resource partner. Because if I've got 17 web design clients and I've got three of them that are banging on my door for SEO to go hire an SEO pro at whatever it is, 10, 10,000 pounds a month or 5,000 pound, whatever it is, it's expensive, know, and are you going to get the value out of it. So there's a beautiful opportunity to say, hey listen, I've got three, three websites that I've built that need SEO. Can you guys help me out? Sure. There's a time and, and, and our job as, as, as a resource partner is to say do such a great job on that SEO that when they get to three websites, turn to six websites, turn to nine websites, theoretically they, they can say, hey listen, I can actually hire a full time person. Now our job is to be so good at it that they go, hey man, I would never hire a full time person. You guys have got the job done, nailed down, so get on with your job. I'll just, you know, make sure that I manage you and I'll just carry on building great websites and I don't have to have the overhead cost of a full time resource, the frustration of management of hr, taxes, sick leave, maternity leave. You know, these are some of the things that, that, that are, are worth thinking about. But I think it's, it's at that stage when, when maybe when your agency is small and you're getting out and you start requiring things that are not within your genius, that's a pretty good time to do it.

That's such a good advice because I think if we take the web design example that like you say they're good at doing that, that's their superpower. But then naturally a client will say, can you help me with SEO or can you help me with SEM or can you help me with PPC so we can drive more traffic to the website? And you say yes. And then you either try and learn it or you maybe go look for a freelancer like you say on Fiverr or Upwork or somewhere. Because you, you want to keep the money in your agency. But of course that's real short term thinking because in the end it's going to cost you more, right? Because you'll either screw it up and lose the client or because that freelancer takes so much management and kind of like you say, you don't know your skill is in that area, so you don't really know whether they're doing a good job or not. And that's the dangerous thing, I guess. One question, I don't know whether you can answer this, but if, if you take that scenario, how broad do you think an agency should go? Like if they're a web design agency or web development agency, how broad should they go? Because you can keep going, can't you? And become a full service Marketing agency in the end, if you're not careful, because there is a natural extension to SEO, to SEM, to ppc copywriting, then maybe direct marketing as well. So how broad should someone go before they say, no, no, this is our specialism, we want to stop here?

Yeah, yeah, you know, I feel like that, that the answer to that is it's all depends on the individual. You know, some people are more ambitious than others. You know, if you are that brilliant web designer and you, you've got your five, six clients and you start to grow and you start to get to 10, 20 clients and you know, I've met a lot of agencies as we, as I say we work with agents. All I've done a lot of agencies who. Will some people flat out tell you, mate, I'm quite happy with where I'm at. I don't intend on growing, I don't intend on scaling. I'm quite happy. I, I bring in X amount every month and I'm contributing to the family and I'm putting my kids to school and my husband goes out on work. So I'm happy where I'm at. And as, as heartbreaking as that is to us because we like to help agencies scale, that's our job. As heartbreaking it is to us, I get that. You know, so that big service agency goal is full service agency goal is not for everyone. And I get that. And it's hard. You can't pull someone aside and say, mate, come on, what do you think you got, you got a great little thing. Yeah, let's, let's go. Not your business. So, you know, it really, I would say depends on the entrepreneur and the, and the individual running the business. What I would say though is if you do have it, if you do have a small, small to medium agency and you're getting to that point where you start getting more queries about copywriting and I would say be very careful. I think you nailed it on, on the head when you said you go to 5 or Upwork and you meet a freelancer who actually requires more management this then, and, and they've become more expensive than, than actually just, you know, not doing that service and risking reputations, you know, business reputations that you have with clients who built websites you built that are really happy with everything and all of a sudden you're letting them down on SEO because you're 5 freelancer. So I would, I would caution and I would say, listen, if you're, if your genius is that web design and you've got the Opportunity to grow into a bigger agency. And you've got demands for copywriting and graphic design and lead generation, whatnot, do it. That's where the key, I think, comes in with finding the right partner and building a relationship with that partner who can help you scale, you know, the chances of you finding that on upwork or fiverr. When you find some random Gmail address in a. In the Middle east or wherever it is, and they say, yeah, cool, I'll. I'll be. This is. This is what I do. And all of a sudden, you know, is a Gmail account going to get you there? Are they going to be around next week? Is that a good business practice? You know, probably not. Yeah, that's one of the things I would caution against.

Yeah, I think I've been guilty of that. Where you think the cheap option is going to give you the best results, and of course it turns out to be the very expensive option. And of course, don't forget that you put your own reputation at risk when you put someone in front of a client that doesn't deliver what you hoped or that you say suddenly disappears.

Cheap is expensive. Cheap is expensive. You know how it goes.

The other thing that you said that I think it's a good reminder to kind of remind everybody is that when you are building your business, it's so important to have a vision of where you want to be headed, because there's no right or wrong way to grow and scale an agency. And, you know, growth for somebody might mean having more flexibility in their life. That might be their vision. It might be having enough time to pursue other interests. It might be certain premium clients only. So if you have a clear vision, even if you're at the beginning of your journey as a web design agency that we're using in this example, it's still super important to know where you're headed. I always liken a vision to a journey. So being in the uk, I'll use my kind of European, just so everyone knows, Steve's based out in South Africa.

So if the accent didn't give it away.

But I mean, imagine, you know, if you. If your vision for your business is to get to the south of France and people in your agency want to go to Scotland, then we're going to be in trouble because we're not all headed in the same direction. So having that clarity around your vision will also help you work out whether some of the services that clients might ask you for are things that you want to actually include into your portfolio or things that you Want to say to client know, we're a specialist in web design, and that's. And that's all we do.

You sound suspiciously like a business coach.

Well, stories are always a really good way of bringing an example to life. So my journey to the south of France. Yeah, good story.

Yeah. No, and, and I think you hit on a good. A good one because, you know, if there are small agencies listening or even mature agencies, and you're not sure what your journey is, maybe it's time to sit down and decide what that journey is. Because, as you say, is we don't know what's ahead of us. I mean, if the last year and a half hasn't taught us that we don't know what's ahead of us. And it's never a bad time to sit down and take stock and decide, hey, man, do I want to go to the south of France and does my team want to come with me or do I want to stay or move to Scotland? Exactly. It's a great analogy because a lot of, I think, especially with that example that I gave of web design, people with a genius and that they're great at, before they know it, they've got a really bustling agency and they haven't actually sat back for even a minute to decide what, where am I going with this? What is my. What is my goal here? It's a big important part of any business, but, I mean, I think digital in particular, because some people just seem to have a knack for making it work. And the next thing you know, you're in the south of France and your team's in Scotland, you know, and that's, that's.

Trust me, I know this from personal experience because when I ran my agency, you know, I started off as me, and then five minutes later I had 25 staff and a lot of grief. And that all happened to me from sort of external opportunities rather than any kind of plan. And if I could go back and change any of that, I would say, Rob, get a plan and, you know, be in control of what happens. Don't let things happen. So tell me, when you work with your clients and we talked about, like, if you outsource to a freelancer, you don't. Especially in some of the countries where, for us in Europe, it will be much cheaper to outsource. You have no control over quality. So how do you guys, when you're providing your service, ensure that no matter who is delivering that service for your partner, they're going to get a consistent experience? And it's going to match global's kind of quality standards.

Well look, I mean I think that's, that's very much in the, in the way that we've set up the business. So we've got a team that yes is in the third world but it's a team that's full time employed. We don't work with freelancers. You know, that's key because obviously you want to know that when you wake up in the morning your agencies that you're supporting get onto Skype and say hey guys, how's my campaign going? And that person's at their desk. They're not just disappeared and so they full time employee, that's number one. The other thing we made sure of is that obviously that our team follows first world processes and quality standards. Now that's also key because and I'm not knocking the father upwork, sorry up desk, upwork situation. You know there's some good resources out there, 100%. The challenge with them is that they, there's very little often with those guys is very little understanding culturally and expectation wise. There's a very big gap between third world expectations and setting expectations and first world expectations of what is realistic. So it's really key to make sure that you've got that team following first world processes with a key understanding of who they're supporting. The supporting agencies in the uk, in the us, New Zealand, Australia, wherever it is who have different expectations around things and they follow processes that are very stringent and set and built by us. People like myself, like Damian and the other heads of the business who have run our own digital agencies and understand what a beer company in New Zealand is expecting from their digital marketing, what a hairdresser in Australia is expecting, you know, whereas in you know, some of the time guys might not understand it. So it's really, really key to base things around processes and quality assurance. Obviously that's a big one like you say is that consistency and delivery is very important as well. So that's, those are the two things that we try to do is obviously process and quality assurance.

Yeah and I think I've certainly experienced this in different contexts but you can work with a great freelancer but they will have capacity issues and as they become more successful then there's a chance that they won't be able to deliver that consistent service. I worked with an amazing VA for a while and then she became more successful. So the first thing she tried to double her prices with me and then she just became less and less available because she was Getting busy stuff. So I think a lot of freelance people have capacity issues which I guess you guys don't have if you're, you know, you're able to take on more.

And, and, and that's why it's almost better to. I mean this again, I'm not knocking anybody. We're all trying to make our buck and we're all trying to make success of ourselves. Whether you're on fiber up desk or you're working for a company like Global who's actually set up a proper organization, the reality is that as a digital agency, only in the UK if you do go that up desk 100% with the experience you've just relayed about having a fantastic resource who had your back left, right and center and then all of a sudden, well, didn't have the time for you because they got too, they too good and they become too busy. They, they can't scale their business, they're not able to scale themselves. They don't know how to do it. They don't have the resource around it. Whereas if you join an organization like lol, who's set up and got the infrastructure, you're joining a company who can resource. So you can go out and say hey listen, you're doing three SEO campaigns for me in life is good. Hey guys, I just got back from a meeting. I just closed 50 SEO campaigns. I need to get those on, on, on the, on the the road right now otherwise I'm going to lose this client. And this is big. This is where in the business of saying rob, not a problem, not a problem. We, our job is to help you scale. So we'll just scale our business. We'll just get bring on more resources and it's easy for us to do that because we've got a big team and that's sort of how we can protect and put agencies minds at rest by doing that.

Great. So let me just ask you this. Let's stand in the shoes of that web development company who's getting busier. Their clients are asking them to do more tangential services connected with the websites. What would you say the best practice or tips to go find a partner to outsource these to. What advice would you give an agency who's in that position and then how would you advise them to make sure they manage that relationship so it's successful and for the long term?

Beautiful. I love. Yeah, it's a great question and it's obvious question for guys like us and I love telling people because we can write this down These tips down on a piece of. In fact we do and we make it very clear to agencies who we signing up and who are getting going with us. And you'd be surprised how few of them, not a few but how many of them actually don't. Don't follow the best practices. For us best practices are pretty simple. You know when it comes to first thing. The first thing that we always suggest that that agencies do with us and we always make it very clear to them is that they need to treat our teams like an extension of their team. You know a lot of agencies and I think this is where that sort of freelancer and that that reputation often of FIVERR and updates that that has gotten this reputation often comes from this is that. And a busy agency will go into fiverr and find a resource and say oh cool, you're a web designer, great design this website, I'll see you in a month. Off they go. And that you're asking for trouble. You're not, you're not. You're not giving that person the best chance for success. You actually, you're giving them really. You make it right really difficult because a month later you come back how's that website? And they're going dude, it's kind of finished but it's not really and I need it. And but you weren't available that we say to the guys straight up, treat our, our teams like an extension of your team. That is key because you wouldn't if you were sitting in an office in London and you had a four or five offices around you, a graphic design department was in one department. You wouldn't just never visit them every morning. You probably stick your head in. How you guys doing? Your right, how's that project? That's, that's what you've got to do with it. You've got to treat them like an extension team. We are resource partner. We're not just an outsourced solution. We're actually a resource partner. So really be key that you treat your. You treat your resource partner as an extension of your team. That's the one of the main ones other best practices and these are also really important is don't be afraid when you do. You're doing your due diligence and you're looking for a resource partner to ask questions to the resource partner questions. Number one for example a really key one is ask them who their clients are. Now it sounds like a stupid thing to say but the reason I say it is if they say to you anything but your clients are Only digital agencies. We only support digital agencies. That's a resource partner you can work with. If their answer is, hey, we support digital agencies, but we also support, we also do our own, you know, we've got our own agency and we, we do digital marketing for soccer teams and for liquor stores and for rock bands. They are competing, they're competing directly with agencies they're supporting. And that is dangerous because you're now going to bring your clientele over to them, say, okay, cool, guys, here's my 10 clients that I need SEO done for. What protection do you have? I mean, obviously it might be a contract of some kind. More protection do you have that they're not going to go behind your back and coach your clients from you? So you want to work with someone who is 100% wholesale. You can't have someone who's wholesale and retail. That's very dangerous. Obviously. I mean, it goes, goes without saying that it's quite dangerous. Other ones that, that are worth asking and really key to, to bed down, obviously, when you're working with a resource partner, make sure there's some sort of contract in place. And in that, that contract there should be some form of confidentiality. You know, we are very careful with the confidentiality of the agencies who we support because we're white label. You know, not all the agencies who we support want their clients or even other agencies to know who they're using. I mean, we're trying our best to grow our business. It's not that easy when our happy clients are the ones going, no, don't tell anyone. I'm not telling anyone. That's, that's, that's the nature of the beast. But confidentiality is a really key one. You know, you don't want, if you're an agency owner, your resource partner, sharing your information or what they're doing for you with other people. And there's a bunch of other things, you know, that, that are worth considering. Things like payment terms. You know, examples of work that they've given that they've done in the past. You know, any good agent or resource partner, anybody who's supporting your agency, who's got your, your agency's best interest at heart, will do things for your agency to try and make your life easier. For example, payment terms. You know, that idea of payment up front for a campaign that's going to start today, where you want you to pay today, doesn't make life very easy on the, on the agency owner who now is to go off and get the money from their clients. Before any work's done and then, you know, perform the work or get the research. So these are just some of the things that we try to get across to people where agencies, you know, think about that. Ask questions of the resource partner you're considering working with, don't be afraid to be critical and to expect them to support you. That's the key thing is they're the resource partner, they're partnering with you. They're not just a switch on and leave solution. They need to be there to have your best interest, interested, heart.

Yeah, brilliant. Good advice. And I've seen some examples of that of my clients that have fallen foul because of some of the things that you just talked about. And I think treating the partner and the people that you're working with in that agency as, as an employee is so crucial because that's what they fundamentally are. Just a couple more questions. Conscious of time?

Sure, sure.

What, what trends are you seeing broadly for the market coming down the road in terms of agencies? I don't know if you've got any thoughts on things that you've seen or that you think are going to happen in the next year or so.

Yeah, so that's a, it's a good question and it's one of those it's impossible to be right or to be wrong question. So I'm happy to just say whatever that comes into my head, to be honest. You know, I think what's, what's quite interesting, I think is in terms of trends is content. You know, for the last five to six years, everyone's been bang on about how you've got to create content, you've got to create content, you've got to get it out there. I feel like we've never been at a better time in human history to do that. You know, a lot of agency owners and a lot of brands themselves who they're supporting are quite shy about creating content and quite shy about just holding a camera up in front of them and saying something. And, you know, that's content and that's valuable content. And I think, you know, people have started to drop their guards around the quality of the content as well. You know, this idea of having an amazing camera set up in beautiful lighting and a scripted video are one and truly gone. You know, there's way too much out there for us to take in. You got to be just, just get it out there, just stick your, stick your phone up, do it for you and encourage your clients to do it as well. You know, the best person at an accounting firm to talk about accounting and to sell their business. Is the, the CEO of that accounting firm or the, the principal attorney of that, you know, of that law firm. You know, if it takes you a trip to the office to sit down for an hour and just record a bunch of clips, that you can do it. You know, nobody's going to sell their business better than them, but, you know, you have to kind of kick their ass. You have to kick those businesses asses, and sometimes you have to kick those agency owners asses as well and say, get off your ass and actually create some content for yourself. You got a great little agency, you got a great little team. Show yourselves off. You know, don't be afraid to create content. It's something that I've adopted quite heavily in the last year or so, obviously with COVID But I think the days of talking about how important content is are over. It's time to actually start adopting that. And all brands needed to. You need to start fighting for space.

And of course, whatever you choose to do, you need to do it on a consistent basis because none of this stuff delivers results tomorrow. It takes time. And I think that's half the issue that someone tries something for a while, it doesn't work, they give up, they move on to the next shiny new object.

And, you know, yeah, if you, yeah, if you don't mind me giving, giving you a bit of a promotion. Yeah, you know, it sounds like that's exactly what you've got, you know, you've done with this podcast. As you said to me. You know, you started off once, twice, you didn't want to be that guy who stopped at the, at the average and you've kicked and you've carried on and look at what you've got. You've got this amazing little podcast going. You've got, you've, you're influencing agencies, you're influencing people. And, and that's amazing. That's exactly where you, what, you've been successful.

It took me long enough to start it for that very reason, because I wanted to do it probably for at least a year. But I thought, well, Rob, if you're going to do it, you want to keep at it and you've got to, you know, keep finding the guests and coming up with the ideas and the content. But, you know, it's. I enjoy doing it and it definitely pays dividends. So let me ask you the last question, Steve, that I ask all of my guests, and that is if you could go back in time and give your younger self just starting out in business. Some advice. What, what would it be?

I. I would say don't hold back, you know, don't procrastinate. Procrastination is back in those days, let's say, I mean, 10, 15 years ago, procrastination was bad. In the world we live in today, procrastination is tenfold worse because the world is moving way quicker. So any procrastination I reckon you put in now and you actually do now affects you 10 times worse than it would have 10 years ago. So that's definitely something I would say to myself, listen, get off your ass, stop thinking about doing it and just do it. Because I believe that if I'd taken that advice all those years ago, I'd be in a very different place. Definitely on the social. And from a social media perspective, I think that's 100% true. You know, you can't sit around waiting because. And I think another piece of advice I'd give is don't care too much about what other people think. Thankfully, I've never been that hung up on what other people think. But even, even with that said, I could have cared less, a little bit less, you know, the world, people don't. People that aren't really that interested in what you're up to, only you're interested in what you have to just do it, you know, Because I think that the, the more you try and the more you put into it, like you say, is persistence, I think that's one.

Of the things that stops people getting in front of a camera because they say, oh, I don't like how I look on camera. I sound. I always say to them, it's not about you, it's about your customer. And it doesn't matter what you think, you just, you need to get on and do it. So I think the procrastination thing is probably something we're all guilty of and it's probably a good bit of advice.

Well, listen, luckily, luckily the two of us are oil painting, so, you know, here we sit.

Exactly. Well, yeah. And if people wanted to find out more about Global Tower and get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to do that?

So we've got our, obviously got our website, globalmarketing.com or they can come and join one of our Facebook communities. We've got community called the Digital Marketing Dream Team or a community called Digital Marketing Cohort Collective. Obviously, I'm assuming your audience is probably more uk, so Digital Marketing Cowork Collective, it's on Facebook. Digital Marketing coworker collective. You can come join us there or global marketing.com or, you know, I'm happy to, you know, if you want to send me an email or find me on Twitter or Instagram at sloto is my is my tag at Slotow or Sloto globertown marketing.com more than happy. Send me an email. I don't mind. I will come back to you. And it doesn't have to be a sales call. You know, I know that some agencies just have questions and some agencies may have heard stuff here that we didn't finish talking enough about it. By all means. You know, if you want to have a chat, then it's all about value. We want to try and add value and help agencies run better businesses. So that's what we're about.

Fantastic. Okay, so I'll put a link to all of those details in the show notes and just want to say thank you so much for joining us today today and found the conversation really useful. And as ever, with a good guest, we could have gone talking for hours.

No, listen. 100% listen. And thank you for having me. I really did enjoy it and yeah, I mean, I'm happy to do it whenever again you want to.

So I hope you found today's episode really useful and insightful and it got you thinking a little bit differently about using a resourcing partner, how to pick one and when you should use one. As ever, please hit the subscribe button to make sure you are alerted to the latest episode and please share it with your colleagues and also please consider leaving a review. But other than that, I hope you have a brilliant week and I will see you next Thursday for the next episode of the Agency Accelerator podcast.