A Conversation with Sundar Pichai and Marc Benioff | Dreamforce 2025

All right, Ohio. Gozaimas. And good morning, everybody. Did anybody like Metallica last night? What about Benson Boone? Did you see him? Great.

Yeah.

Metallica. They were really on. I'm tired. Yeah. I only slept with one eye open last night. Okay, we have a great morning for you. Are you all excited to meet Sundar? All right, Sundar, where are you? We need you, Sundar. Come on out, Sundar. Here it comes. Sundar, everybody.

Good to see you. How are you, man?

Well, all right. We're so thrilled to have Sundar this morning. And it is going to be a great interview we're going to do here. We're going to spend 38 minutes, 40 minutes. As much time as you want.

Well, as much time as you want.

True. It is as much time as I want. Okay.

Very, very excited to be here. It's a beautiful theater.

It is a beautiful. You know, we're talking backstage. This was a famous theater for me because all of the Apple product launches that I loved were all here.

Yeah.

And Steve Jobs was here, and I kind of feel like he left a little bit of his magic behind on the stage. And it's just a great place to be.

Good karma.

Absolutely. So, anyway, Sundar, we know each other very well, and we have been to many, many different kind of programs together. And also a lot of personal events, some wonderful happy situations, some sad situations. We've had every possible situation together. And I think when I was thinking about this interview on the way in, what occurred to me was, does everybody really know you? And I would really like just to take a few minutes and try to let people know who you are, because as I was saying backstage, you're from my very favorite part of India. From the South. Everybody knows I like a good masala dosa.

And makes two of us, though.

One thing I love about the south is the women are in charge of the household. The mothers are in charge, and the gurus are the women. I met an incredible guru in Trivandrum in Kerala, in the backwaters of the Arabian Sea, named Amitji, who's amazing, had a huge impact on my life. But that idea of growing up in South India and the values of South India and the mystique and the energy and the matriarchy. Tell us about that. And then, you know, and then let's get you all the way from that point when you were there and IIT and Stanford. But first, let's go back to South India and then just give everyone a flavor for Sundar.

Wow. I didn't expect it to Start there. But definitely a trip down nostalgia. You're right. It's a special place, obviously. And my mom had a. I learned my love of reading from my granddad, her father. And my mother, she used to be a voracious reader because the financial circumstances never went past high school, but she used to read a lot. And so that's where my love of learning and knowledge kind of came, I think, growing up there. Obviously, strong family values, extraordinary focus on learning and knowledge and acquiring wisdom over the years. It's not an accident. I think it kind of led me to Google over time, given what our mission is and so on. But I had to wait for every piece of technology for a long time in my life. Waited five years to get a rotary phone. And when the phone came, five years.

For a rotary phone because the government.

Made it at that time and it was a long waiting list. But the minute the phone came to the house, we were one of the first in the neighborhood. People would come to the house, call their families. It kind of like created a community around it. So for me, it was incredible to see how getting access to technology can have this profound shift in your life. I had to wait for a long time to get access to a computer. So that's what led me to this journey.

How old were you when you first had access to a computer?

You know, I seen and had like, you know, you could get an hour of use maybe like once every two to three months. But when I came to Stanford, as when you could walk down to a lab and there were workstations and like I could open Emacs, and I was, you know, it was a whole world.

That's where access was opportunity.

Yeah, that's right. And that's what always reinforced to me that, you know, all of us are in this world of you're trying to give people access to technology and you see that step change that comes with it, and it's a journey. And with AI, I think we have a chance to do a step even more. You mentioned South India. I called the Prime Minister of India this on Sunday night. You know, I used to take this train.

Prime Minister Modi.

Prime Minister Modi. I used to take this train through the south of India and there's this town called Vizag. It's a beautiful coastal town growing up. And we announced our. Yeah, there you go. We announced our largest ever AI investment outside the US a $15 billion 1 gigawatt plus data center, 80% powered by clean energy, with subsea cables going in. The chance to transform A region like that, with a kind of investment, it really meant a lot to be able to call the Prime Minister who really cares about developing the country. And this has been his vision. I know you know him well too. And so anyway, it's extraordinary to see the impact of all this.

Very exciting and it's a great way to get back. So you really see that this kind of technology giving access even to being developed. And they said nod to South India there. Yeah, very good. It sounded like there's a lot of folks here from India or no Vice ad. So stand up. If you're from India actually, would you be welcomed? Wow, look at that. Thank you everybody. Welcome. So, okay, well, let's talk about that. So here we are. Well, I think I've started the conversation in the right way. Would you agree that we have to connect to India to understand you? And here you are, you're growing up in South India, you're getting a vision for technology. The idea that access is opportunity. You're now in pursuit of iit, probably one of the finest institutes in India for technology. When did you make that decision that technology was going to be your passion?

Look, I mean I was very interested in physics. I was fascinated with semiconductors and computers. And so to me it was literal. I literally wanted to be. This place was called Silicon Valley. So it's the best advertising ever. As a kid growing up, you're interested in semiconductors. This wonder that you could turn sand into this thing which is the substrate of the digital age. And so for me, I literally wanted to be in Silicon Valley because that's what I was interested in. And I was very inspired by the one Laptop per child project from mit, what Negroponte was working on.

This is the one laptop per child where they're going to try to put this kind of low cost computer in the hands of every child in the world. But especially targeting India. And it was going to be a very, very low cost computer. It was. Nicholas was really the visionary behind it.

That's right. And I have to. In some ways I can directly link that to my work on Chromebooks many years later. Right. So the fact that that must have been.

Now that, I mean, one laptop per child, that was in the mid-90s, I think.

That's right.

94, 95, 96. I don't remember the exact dates.

You were right. And around the time it came to the U.S. but what's extraordinary is his vision of making that possible. I think made a lot of progress. Quite couldn't get there. But for Me, it always. It later played out not just in Chromebooks, but we eventually ended up giving pretty much everyone a mobile phone, which is a computer in their hands with Android too. Now you have all around the world, be it in the us be it in Brazil, be it in Indonesia, be it in India, Africa.

Was there also a browser on that Android phone?

That's right. What's the word?

Say there's a browser on that phone. We're going to get there. We're going to get there.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

You know, I'm going there.

I'm looking forward to it. Okay. But I think that inspired me. And so in some ways, the chance and the thing that attracted me to Google was literally in the mission statement, and I'm very serious about it. The phrase to make information universally accessible and useful. That phrase is why I joined Google because it resonated so much with me. Right. This is about giving access to information, knowledge to everyone in the world. And that journey continues across all of us. I think AI is the ultimate expression of that. Right. It's really giving a true knowledge collaborator, companion, how you want to think about it, access to everyone in the world, regardless of where you're from. It's a great equalizer, I think.

Well, it's an amazing vision now and you're in pursuit of IIT with this inspiration. You go sail through iit. It's amazing. And then somehow, you know, you want to go to Stanford. Was that. When did that occur?

I mean, it's a fortunate opportunity. And for me, I had the chance to go to a few places. Stanford happened to be in Silicon Valley. So everything was straightforward. The only thing I felt maybe misled was the professor who emailed me said, it's really nice and warm and beautiful weather. But I think kind of coming from South India, when people say warm, I remember the first time I went to the ocean and I was so excited and I went into the water and I was like, no, this is not warm.

This is not the backwaters of the Arabian Sea. No. Okay.

It's a bit different. Having said that, it is the birthplace of semiconductors and the stories around Fairchild and National, you see the history back. And so it's a real special place. So I felt home when I came here.

Well, you're helping me remember all of my great times in South India, too, and the warmth and the energy and the mysticism and all that. I remember a lot of times being there and spending time with Amechi and also a friend of mine There, Amrita Sirupa, Ananda as well. And it's just an incredible place and it feels a long way from here, but I guess it's actually much closer because here we are together right now. And so now here you are, you've kind of gone through that whole experience. You're all the way to Iit and now you're on your way to Stanford. What is your family thinking at this point?

Look, I mean, now you step back. I just became an empty nester this year and you've this incredible access to your kids and it's still very, very hard. I can't believe in those days when I came here, it was probably $2.30 per minute to call back home. Right. And so if you ever think the curve of how technology makes things more accessible. Yeah, it was, you know, we used to write letters back then because it was so expensive to call. Now, you know, I'm fortunate enough, you know, I see my parents regularly and I'm, you know, stay in close touch with them but you know, they talk about, you know, just, just like you kind of disappear from their life. But so I'm glad we are working all, you know, I look at, there's a product we are working on called Google Beam and which really, when you, when two people talk, you feel like physically they are in the same place. Part of the reason I'm motivated by all that is like, you know, you know, you realize people today imagine veterans being deployed and being away from their families or something like that. So I think it's important to connect people.

All right, so here we are now we're at Stanford. The favorite son has left the home. There's a distance. You're lonely. It sounds like at Stanford you're missing the masala dosa. You're in Palo Alto.

I was missing my girlfriend, then my wife.

This is your girlfriend now, your wife. Very nice.

She went to college with me and so, yeah, all of that.

Very good.

I spent all my money calling her pretty much. Yeah. Literally. True.

Very good. Do you want to say more about that? What were those calls like?

At some point we have to bring it to Agent Force and we really don't.

Actually. This is better than that. We've been talking about that for days. Yeah, we're already on board the Agent Force. We got that. But this is more interesting. The girlfriend, the wife, the phone calls, freezing in Palo Alto.

I definitely didn't expect all of this.

Bathing in the Pacific Ocean, which I.

Only did it once by the way. Super cold. Still haven't quite gotten used to it. Where are we? No, look, I mean.

But no, I think it's important that we talk. First of all, you can see we have a great connection, number one. But number two, this is the Sundar I know. So that's what I'm trying to do. I think a lot. Like I said my ride in, I was just thinking to myself, a lot of people, they just don't have the opportunity to realize the person that I know so well. Your heart, your life, your connection. And you know, now. Okay, so anyway, let's just get back to the story. You're in Stanford now, right? And now all of a sudden you kind of see this new world and it is a different world. You are in Palo Alto. It's not just cold, there's a whole thing going on. Right. And so what is your biggest surprise now that you're in Palo Alto, besides the weather?

Oh, I mean, look, I think we take this for granted in the Valley and in a place like Stanford. And I mean, America is truly a land of opportunity in a way. That phrase, I think very few people really understand deeply. And it's extraordinary. You can come here and if you're willing to work hard, pursue your dreams, anything is possible. It was kind of obvious to me once I came in. If you're passionate about something, you meet other people who are passionate about it. This is a place of dreamers and builders. You're excited about something. People want to build on that idea. It's almost like they want to compose that with you. That is so unique about the place we live in. And so that struck me, this optimism, this real desire to make the world better. And sometimes we all are so used to it, sometimes I think we get jaded with technology or something. We forget that. I feel it now when I travel around the world and you go to places where they don't have access to this technology, they so want to be a part of it. Here we have it and I think we've gone through these waves, but that is the essence of this place, I think. And you brought it back to the theater in which Steve Jobs did some of those path breaking announcements. But I think that's the spirit of this place. I felt it at Stanford and I feel it today.

So now here you are, you're feeling it. You are connected to the energy of Silicon Valley, the magic of what's happening. Stanford, kind of the heart of it all. Near the garages where these great companies have started, like hp, like Apple, you're starting to meet these Cast of characters. It's like going to Disneyland, right? You're meeting Donald Duck, you're meeting Mickey Mouse in person for the first time, and now you're in Stanford. And are you at this point thinking, okay, I heard about this company, Google, it's 2004. This is where I'm heading. Is that the direction at this point?

I was in Stanford in the 90s, and this was the time when Mosaic and Mosaic had launched. And ironically, I think Larry and Sergey were at Stanford at the same time. I don't think I knew them or we didn't overlap.

You didn't know them at the time?

No, I didn't know them at the time. I was focused on different things. I was very interested in semiconductors. That was my area of research. That's what I was working on. I was so excited to have access to all that. I almost didn't realized there was this thing called the Internet which was happening, but a few years later had the chance to get to know a few people. And when the Internet was really taking off, I started using Google early. The first time I started using it, I realized this is going to give more access to information to more people.

It must be, what, 96, 97, 99.

No, Google wasn't there. Google started in 99. I first used it in about 2000. Right. 2000, 2001. But I could instantly feel like you have this thing which is going to give access to technology to more people than anything before. You could use it, you could feel it. The fact that.

And where was that first time that you used Google? In 2001, where were you?

I was still in Palo Alto, but I was working in the semiconductor industry. It's interesting to see back as we are going through this moment in AI, everything is coming back to chips, which turns out to be might be the real driver of intelligence. And it's not an accident that Google works on TPUs too. So it all comes back full circle. But that's the context in which I use. But it's just that when I used it, I instantly felt like, this is where I want to be. And spoke to some people, ended up at Google and soon started working on Chrome. Yeah.

And you went to Google. It was about 2003. 4. 2004. So 2004. So you've transitioned now from semiconductors. What semiconductor company were you at? I actually don't know.

For a long time I was at Applied Materials.

At Applied Materials. So you're a great company, Applied Materials. And now you've decided to go from applied material semiconductors to the Internet with Google and you go, that's a pretty big leap actually, from semiconductors to the browser.

Look, I wanted to be closer to. When you're working in the semiconductor industry, sometimes you can feel far removed from the people. I wanted to be much closer to where technology was impacting people. And so I wanted to be closer to the consumer. And that's the chance with Google. 2004 was about the time in which you had this. The web was changing from just content pages to real rich applications. This was web 2.0. It was ajax, Gmail had launched Google Maps, Flickr. You could really see the web evolve. You were pioneering software as a service too, at the time. I mean, like, look, all of this was coming together.

We were five years into Salesforce at that. Yeah, actually we're going public and Google is going public in 2004. Now actually, you mention it, Google and Salesforce both went public that year. 2004.

That's right. I went back and looked. Our first partnership, I wasn't involved between Google and Salesforce was 2007. That was the first contract I could.

That's not the first partnership. The first partnership was I was presenting, okay, ahead of our IPOs, and Larry and Sergey were in the front row and I was presenting on our product strategy, but I also presented on our 1:1:1 model, which is the 1% equity, 1% profit, 1% time. And Larry and Sergey came up to me afterwards and they said, you know what, we're going to do that too. And we're going to create google.org and we're going to do the 1% also. And I want to thank them for that. And thank you. And I thank Google for that because it created a huge foundation with a huge amount of good. And that was the very first time I had met Larry and Sergey. And it was an incredible moment. And just at that moment you were kind of coincidentally joining Google.

That's right.

So was it before the IPO or after Chest.

I think I joined the IPO happened like three weeks later.

Fantastic. You joined the company is going public.

That's right.

Now, is it at that point now who was CEO at that time? Was it Eric or Larry?

Eric.

Eric. And is that when you said to Eric, I'm going to take your job, Eric?

No, The thing I did recall, it was in 2004, around 2006, when the thing which Eric, I still remember, me and a few others, we wanted to build a browser. And Eric had gone through the browser wars before. Was super familiar with it. I remember vividly Eric telling us, are you crazy? You know what it takes to build a browser? We are not building a browser. We still did it anyway. But he was super generous. And once we, we kind of bootstrapped a browser, a small team, and then we demoed it to him and Larry Sergey and once he saw how good it was, he became one of the biggest supporters of it. But that's how Eric and I interacted.

All right, well, now you're squarely at Google and it's a storied career for the next 21 years, from starting on this kind of incredible team that built the marquee browser Chrome all the way to today as the CEO. Reflecting on that two decades, what is your thought across this arc from South India now to this leadership journey at Google?

Look, I think technology is one of the biggest enablers we know. It drives innovation at a fundamental level. If anything, that journey is accelerating. I think we are living in the middle of it. Sometimes we may not fully feel it, but the pace at which it's evolving, I feel, and I'm sure Mark feels that way. Our job is to be good stewards of this technology, bring it in a way that really benefits society at scale. This journey to harness technology in a way that positively impacts humanity, I think that's what we need to do. We obviously do it in the context of building companies, but companies with a purpose, companies which give back. I think both Salesforce and Google share that deeply and you inspired the Google journey there. I think there is no better technology to do that than AI. And one of the first things when I became CEO was to we had gone through a decade of being a mobile first company and I wanted to drive the shift to being an AI first company. So that's what we did in 2017. In fact, in 2017 at Google I o we spoke about this concept of AI first data centers and we announced our first generation of TPUs in 2017. But it's been a journey. I think in many ways Larry Sergey were visionary around always understanding the true potential for AI. I was fortunate to go through maybe four distinct moments which kind of really brought it all together for me. In 2010, I went with Larry to the DARPA Grand Challenge where they were testing autonomous cars and we saw this car, the Sebastian's team, which won the DARPA challenge. So you kind of saw the progress that's possible. Jeff Dean, along well Jeff Hinton and team had come to Google. And so Jeff Dean demonstrated Google Brain in 2012, the ability for Google Brain to recognize cats using a neural network. That was 2012. I met Demis and team in 2014. And then in 2016 was the AlphaGo moment. So seeing all this, it was fortunate to be at that kind of a vantage point, which is why in 2017 I said the company has to be really focused on. It was obvious to me this was going to be the decade of AI. And so that was the journey since then.

Okay, so now let's go back about three years when we started to have some very interesting conversations because all of a sudden here's Google, the absolute leader in AI DeepMind now Demis, the Nobel prize winning Dennis. We never thought that was about to happen. It's incredible what has happened. Google, well, very well warranted. And now three years ago, here you are, the leader in AI. You are leading the company through this transformation. You're putting guardrails in appropriate guardrails. You're being conservative, appropriately conservative. And this little company in San Francisco called OpenAI emerges with this product ChatGPT. And we start to see these crazy headlines that say, well, Google has a competitor. And here's the situation and here's the real leader in AI. OpenAI. What's your reaction? And take us in that journey for the last 36 months.

A few things. I think one of the things which was Misunderstood was obviously 2017 was when we published the Transformer paper too. We started using Transformers right away. We saw the power of the technology. Part of what made search so much better was post Transformers.

This is the paper. All you need is attention.

Attention is all you need. Yeah. And, and extraordinary paper. And you can say it's the foundation of everything since then. All of the Gen AI phenomenon. And we built something called Bert and Mom. So we built two Transformer based models which is what dramatically improved search. We use Transformers to make search better. We use Transformers to. That's why we launched Google Photos. It was the first AI native product. We were shipping a lot. And we were working on an internal version of Chatbot too. In fact, it was a chatbot. It became famous because there was an engineer at Google who thought it was sentient. This was about six months.

It was not sentient.

I don't. It wasn't sentient. On a lighter note though, I did get a lawyer like from the outside send me a note saying, representing this product called Lambda, which is one of the more fascinating emails I've gotten.

This is a lawyer representing the sentient Chatbot.

That's how it came in. Right. But look, we have to take all this seriously. Obviously the technology wasn't anywhere close to that at that time, but we were making a lot of progress. But you're right, credit to OpenAI. They put it out first. And look in consumer Internet it's not. I remember being at Google in 2006 and we were working on video search and YouTube came out of nowhere or I'm sure if you were within Facebook, you saw how photos were popular in your feed and Instagram came out of nowhere. In the consumer Internet world I would argue pretty much all of us working on we knew in a different world we would have probably launched our Chatbot maybe a few months down the line. We hadn't quite gotten it to a level where you could put it out and people would have been okay with Google putting out that product. It still had a lot of issues at that time.

I would argue a lot of risk putting it out at that point putting it out.

And I would argue OpenAI did their deal with Microsoft two months before they put out ChatGPT. In some ways I think it was, in hindsight it's a bit more obvious fully what it could be. But for me, when ChatGPT launched, contrary to what people outside felt, I was excited because I knew the window had shifted. We were building this technology. We had been building this technology for so long. We were so AI native everything in the company, every decision we had made. I decided to take a full stack approach to AI. We were investing all the way from infrastructure, we built our own chips, we had world class research teams in Google Research, Google Brain, Google DeepMind and to the models and so on. So I just realized this was the biggest opportunity in technology. We were incredibly well positioned but we had to car pay the MCs the moment and execute well as a company. And that's the journey we've been on. We kickstarted Gemini, we brought Google brain and Google DeepMind together and we've been rapidly iterating since then. We have had now we have Gemini 2.5 outside. We are working on Gemini 3.0 which we will release this year and the progress has been extraordinary and I think the progress in 26 is going to be even more exciting than 25. So I couldn't be more excited.

One other thing, congratulations. So now let's take a quick step into the future. So here we are, we've all been on Google, we've seen the huge transformation not only of Gemini but even AI Preview and all the technology that you're pioneering. And I don't think I've ever seen the organization go faster and quicker and also be more determined. And it's good to have a competitor. Right. It gives you a little extra motivation to get going. And number two is we see Google also innovating in some extraordinary ways. A great example is, I don't know if you've been to San Francisco recently, but we have about 500 of these white cars called Waymos going around and it's amazing what Google has made. It's incredible. And I will just look at that and also think about and reflect. Yesterday we had Brad Adcock here who has this company called Figure with Robots. And I was asking him, what is the whole stack? There's the data centers, there's the AI and there's this kind of robotic layer, this kind of that. It takes many different pieces to build the whole system end to end. And you know, it's difficult. You know, Brett, it was a brilliant interview and he's just incredible person, but he's got three or 400 or 500 people, obviously, all incredible, led by an incredible person. But you have way more than that and you have way more put together and you're really far in a lot of these areas. You're very far on the. Well, let's just start at the chip layer, at the data center layer, at the software layer, at the agentic layer, at the applications layer, productivity layer, partnerships, and at the robotic layer as well. So now there's no other company that has that. I'm sure that this is the conversation in the boardroom every day, I don't really know. But this idea that Google has this vision really guided by, and you have to give a lot of credit to these two kids out of Stanford, Larry and Sergey, who are still so active and see them around all the time and still so passionate and youthful. And now here you are leading this company. Incredible company. These amazing values we talked about, the heart of Google, still very much in place. Now here we are, it's 2025 now. We look out over the next 10 years. People are always overestimating what you can do this year in 2025, underestimating what Google's going to get done by 2035. Take us out to 2035. Take us into your biggest dream. Where are we going? How are you going to harness the power from the Tensor to the data center, the GCP Gemini, the applications, the partnerships, the robots? What are we going to see? What is it going to look like 10 years from now in the mind of Sundar?

Just that, just that yeah. Both you and I have worked long enough that you have to be humble when you think about the future. But look, we make these long term bets. Waymo has been a very, very long journey. I'm proud of the fact that over the past 10 years we continued investing in Waymo. I remember the team three years ago when we were coming to San Francisco. We weren't sure how this would work out. The thought in San Francisco that you would have all these cars driving around and you'd have to get it right, putting safety first, et cetera. But in technology, you take these long term bets. Just last week and I'll answer your question, but just last week I spent maybe two weeks ago now, Monday I'd gone to Santa Barbara in our quantum lab. I met with the team again. It's another journey. We've been at it for more than 10 years. I think we have the leading quantum lab in the world. I finished spending my day, I left on Monday and Tuesday morning I found our chief scientist there won the Nobel Prize for physics this year and this is the second year in a row. You mentioned Demis and John Jumper last year. But we believe in that kind of deep fundamental R and D with the view of translating that into real products. That same quantum computing team, no different from our TPU teams, plans to have commercially available real at scale quantum computers in a few years. And I think they will get there. Right. So when you talk about now 10 years ahead, we are building this digital intelligence layer, not just us, the 10.

Years quantum is real, is your point at least?

I for sure think so. I'm very, very bullish and confident on it. I've seen the.

Is that going to put at odds cryptography as we know it today? Are cryptocurrencies going to be at risk with quantum computing that can break any code available from a Google or other vendors?

I think in a three to five year thing we will have that moment where from a cryptographic standpoint, we have to adapt to quantum for sure.

But I think we will create a moment of vulnerability. Do you think for all these currencies and all of this stuff, it will.

But I think as a society it will also create an opportunity for people to come and provide new solutions.

If there is a trust gap at that moment, that could be very serious. So it's something that everyone needs to be mindful about, mindful of.

And I think there's so much at stake. I think we will collectively work together. But on the positive side, if you ask me, 10 years from look we are definitely going to have digital superintelligence as a collaborator for all of us. That is going to be a reality.

What does that mean? That has been a phrase that everyone is starting to use, but few have been able to define it. Digital super intelligence. And is that kind of where we're going then? It's 10 years. It's digital superintelligence. It's quantum computing. Like we were talking about AGI. That term seems to be dropped. That was this concept that the software is so smart, it's just writing itself and it's. The data centers are being built by robots and it's just all going. In the book that Larry talks about, you know, we are legion. We are Bob, you know that. That we're all off in a rocket ship collectively waking up in a robot. Is that what we're talking about? Because we were talking about that yesterday with Brett and it was like, whoa, it was a trip.

Look, one thing we are so good at, adapting. I think we constantly underestimate. Obviously 10 years ago we used to obsessively talk about Turing Tests. We kind of moved past it. The fact that our self driving cars, driving in San Francisco and you're right, they're driving around. It's kind of like people are. We just kind of like. I'm not sure my kids are impressed by that, right? So it's just I am like blown away every time I get in one of those cars because I've seen the progress.

How many of you here have been in a Waymo Raise your hand.

You know how many people have not.

Yet been in a Waymo Raise your hand. Oh, well, there you go.

I mean you should before you leave. I would check it out. But a great example is I put my dad in the Waymo. I sat in the back seat. He was in the front seat. I watched the forum. It felt like that science fiction and my kids, they quick got on their phones and they were like whatever, right? So we have this remarkable ability to adapt. So this notion they are just going to have. Yesterday we announced this wonderful collaboration with Yale where we used our open source models to build a cellular model on which you could target novel. It hypothesized novel possible approaches. We took that and were able to recreate that in the biological wet lab scenario and see it actually works. This is for future potential paths for cancer. Biologists are using alphafold. They are actually using open source Gemini models. But all this is happening. I think if we underestimate humanities, we are such a remarkably resilient Adaptive species. We are going to adapt to this technology and it's going to be there around.

Are we going to evolve into this technology like people are talking about? Or is our species going to be safe as a, you know, as who we are today? Or will it be an evolution? Or what's the. What's what, what's in your mind around this?

You know, I'm always much more, you know, I think our ability to harness this technology, I think we'll be able to do that. You know, some of your questions, maybe your guru might be better equipped to answer.

I think you are my guru at this point.

What's that?

You are my guru.

I definitely am not. And you know, so, you know, so you know, I'm always hesitant to think that way. I focus on we have to be very responsible. Look, it is powerful technology and you know, I think the technology will be capable of recursively self improving over time. So these are very profound questions and we all have to be good stewards of it. I view at any moment the technology is going to progress. We should embrace and innovate with it. The benefits are going to be profound. But our responsibility as leaders is to make sure we are leaving the world in a better position for the next generation than what we inherited. That's how I think about it.

We've seen Google great, excellent. You mentioned the importance of getting closer to the technology. This is your passion. This is one of the reasons you went to Google. We saw Google try to get even closer with the first version of glasses. We've seen that. Do you think Google will even do it? A brain, machine interface? Do you see that level of interface?

First of all, the glass stream has never gone away. I think we are working very hard on it. In fact, there were many things which we worked on which quite didn't work because AI wasn't fully there. Right. But now that you truly have seamless AI with intuitive interfaces for people, be it voice, gestures, vision, etc. The multimodality of AI. Google Glass is going to be back and I think it's going to be great. And your question was? Sorry, I started thinking about Google Glass.

Now I just need to flick back on your brain. Machine interface.

Brain makes a lot of sense to me. I think what Elon and team are doing with neuralink is super inspiring. When you see the examples again in technology, people who have real disabilities and people being able to communicate again, et cetera, some of the most moving things I see. So I think it's a, it's totally Incredible.

Here at the conference, we even had Eddie Chang from UCSF who has this amazing new brain machine interface company, Echo Neuro. We even had Brian Johnson, who had a brain machine interface company. It was like multiple brain machine interfaces.

This may be tmi, but you know, I've been under anesthesia. Eddie Chang operated on me. So for what it's worth. Yeah.

So he's a. I didn't know that.

So he's a phenomenal.

A great surgeon.

He's a phenomenal neurosurgeon. I'm perfectly fine, but he's a phenomenal neurosurgeon. And so. So, yeah, one of the best around in the world.

Very good. Well, Sundar, as we start to bring this to a close, first of all, let us express our sincere gratitude to you for everything that you are doing in your leadership and your vision, your direction and also your core values are so well in place in yourself and in Google. Tell us, what would you like to bring to the audience and to the world in your final comments in this Dreamforce interview?

Look, I mean I would. Part of the reason I'm here today, we've obviously worked for a long time together. We use Salesforce extensively within Google. We've expanded our partnership over time because of the value you all bring. You've helped us be very, very customer focused as a company. I think the opportunity we both see is you've made this the theme of Dreamforce this year, the agentic enterprise. I look at the model trajectory ahead as we are working with Gemini 3.0 in 26. We are going to make. We've already had dramatic progress over the past couple of years. The progress ahead is palpably going to be. You're going to feel these models are going to be really intelligent agents. They're gonna be more robust agents. And what we are working together is to bring it in a way as enterprises, you want all of this to work well together. You want this to be safe, secure. The governance has to work. But ultimately you're trying to unlock the data in your enterprise and solve your use cases better than ever before. I think that is the real opportunity we have. What you're doing with AgentForce, what you're doing, we are proud to partner by bringing Gemini there and the chance to do all this together for all of you in a way that makes sense for you is what I'm excited about.

So thank you for Sundar, on behalf of all of us and Dreamforce, thank you so much for coming today. It's just a pleasure.

Thank you and great to see you. Awesome.