Breaking the Script with Jesse Eisenberg | Dreamforce 2025 | Salesforce

Please welcome senior director Cross Cloud Evangelism Salesforce, Carolyn Bathauer. Thank you. Well, hello, everyone. Our guest today is one of the most versatile storytellers of his generation. You may know him as an Academy Award nominated actor for his unforgettable role as Mark Zuckerberg in the Social Network and films like Zombieland, as well as his most recent film, A Real Pain. Beyond acting, he's also a celebrated playwright, author and filmmaker. He's also known for his wit, honesty, and willingness to bring vulnerability to his work and his qualities that connect deeply with audiences navigating the complexities of modern life. Please join me in welcoming Jesse Eisenberg. Thank you.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, I'm very excited, specifically because storytelling is such an important part of business, of life, of creativity. When we think about this session, it's called Breaking the Script. Can you tell us how has storytelling impacted you not just in your career, but in how you connect with people in life?

Thank you so much, and thank you for coming today and thank you for having me here. Yeah. For me, stories and fiction is my favorite way to engage with other people, which I recognize as probably some kind of social limitation, because I always say I would so much prefer sitting around with friends trying to figure out a story to tell than talking small talk. And I think it comes from the idea that I experience all of my creativity, my thoughts, my humor, my values, my system of ethics through stories. And so for me, the most kind of engaging way to be with other people is through stories, through fiction. It always was the way I was able to express myself. I'm a shy person. I think, like a lot of actors, people are often surprised at the paradox of the extroverted actor being quite shy in person. And that is certainly my personality. But for me, fiction and creativity was always a way for me to express myself.

That's incredible. So when you think about the creativity, the storytelling, does it make you look at world or situations differently when you encounter different things?

Yeah, that's such a great question. The most extreme example of that for me is I've played villains in movies. One of them is Lex Luthor.

Was a great one.

Yes. Oh, thanks a lot. Yes, yes, yes. And people who might be villains and, you know, and what's interesting about that is that as an actor, you're the only one on the set. You're the only one in the whole process that has to try to kind of live in those shoes. And for me, as an actor, I get really engaged in my roles and really Emotionally invested. And when you're playing a character that other characters don't like and that are maybe kind of maladaptive or doing bad in the world, you have to justify that completely emotionally, intellectually. And it's really interesting, by putting yourself into the shoes of somebody who is diametrically opposed to you in every way, forces you to empathize. And so I've written plays for 10 years, and I just am editing my third movie that I wrote and directed. And I find myself, when I'm writing, kind of putting myself in the shoes of every character, even the characters that, to the audience, are antagonistic. And it's just a way to create, you know, empathy for me, but also for the audience. It's really special when the audience can understand, like, a villain in a movie. Audiences love villains that they can understand and they don't connect to movies as much when the villain seems like this amorphous blob of evil.

Yeah, well, and that brings me to my next question. I love film, so I'm really glad I get to do this. I have a movie pass, so we see things that we normally wouldn't. I turned one of my spare rooms into a media room, so we really watch a lot. And when I saw a real pain, when I tell you I went through every single emotion, right. I laughed, I cried. And the one that got me the most was when you feel it in your gut, you suck air a little bit when you see some of these things. So you balance grief, family tension in that film with humor and levity so. Well, so how do you find the line between letting people laugh without diminishing what is painful?

That's so nice of you to say. Yeah. With the real pain. The movie is kind of, like, based on my family's history. My family was, you know, partly in Poland during the war and, you know, obviously suffered there. And, you know, but the way I kind of, like, engage with the world is typically through humor. And, you know, the family. I grew up in a family that comes from, you know, also the currency in my house was humor. And it's partly because it's fun and it engages in kind of, like, wit and kind of intellectual gaming, but also because that's oftentimes the way you cope with tragic situations. And I am, like, a depressive. And I find that humor at least makes me feel. Because, you know, the interesting thing about being a depressive and, like, kind of a cynic is that, like, humor is, like, the fun flip side of that stuff because you have a kind of World weariness that can be funny, which is why I don't trust comedians who are happy anyway, so humor became like the currency. And so a real pain is kind of my expression of the family that I grew up in. Both the tragedy and the humor of it.

So bringing back to one of your previous answers. You know, when you're writing or playing a character that is just completely opposite of you, I think that's a little bit similar to laughing in the face of grief or. Right. It just brings you back to the opposite effect. So just switching you out of that mode as fast as possible. And because I know I do, I cope with laughter a lot. Yes, yes. So as a follow up question for the real pain, like as a creator, how does it feel to have written and created something that led to a fellow actor receiving an Academy Award? What did that feel like for you?

Oh, it's both, you know, you see no benefit from it, but, you know, you know, but, but I suppose in some broader way and through years of therapy, I will come to appreciate it as well. No, no, no, no, no. It's like, look, it's the greatest thing in the world. You know, the first play I wrote, the first play I wrote, I was 22 years old. And the lead, the lead actor in the play was Vanessa Redgrave. She is like, if you don't know, she's like considered like the greatest actress in the English language right now. And you know, so she was in my first play. And just hearing her say the lines, it was like this kind of surreal thing because, you know, you know, you're kind of, you know, you don't, you just don't foresee something you write being treated in this kind of illustrious way and similar in the Real Pain Ciara. So the real kind of treat for me was just watching this thing that had been in my head for years kind of come alive in this incredible way. And he's a really brilliant actor, very engaged, really funny and interesting guy. And so all of the other stuff was quite nice. But the real treat for me is kind of like the actual doing of the thing. As I was saying earlier, the way I like to engage with friends socially is through kind of work, through talking about creative things. And so to work with Kieran on the movie was great. Cause he was so amazing in person, you know, and we like each other very much. But like the peak of our kind of relationship was through work, which I find, again, it might be a character flaw of mine, but that's all. My relationships peak in kind of These fictional settings. And then I see people a year later, and we don't really know what to talk about. But again, that's my character flaw. They're all great people. I think it's just the way I engage in the world is just through, like, stories.

Yeah. And, you know, in all of your works, even when I think about the way I've watched you interview, I feel like every time you respond, there's this almost emotional connection immediately to that question. You can draw on some type of experience, and then in your work, you zoom in in these tiny, awkward, wonderful, deeply human interactions that most people might overlook. So the way you described your interaction with your friends and things like that and work, where do you draw the inspiration, that creativity, when you're writing? Because it seems like it's a little bit different, but you just connect so much into those emotional pieces. How do you do that?

Oh, thank you. That's a very generous analysis of my weird personality. Yeah, Normally people diagnose me for that, but you're being very generous.

My second career.

Okay, got it. Yeah. And I imagine no bill will come of this, because it was just a compliment. Yeah. I don't know. I'm really just inspired by the things that I don't understand about myself. I know that's probably narcissism by another name or maybe by the same name. It's narcissism by the same name. But, yeah, I just am, like. I just. You know, I. You know, the current movie I'm writing is about Guatemala because I went to, like, help out in Guatemala, and I realized while I was helping out there that I was of no use. I couldn't do the cement that fast. And so I realized, oh, I'm not actually a great helper here, but I also recognize my intentions are quite good. I'm trying to do this thing because going on a vacation where I sit on a beach seems unethical to me, and it makes me depressed, and I don't tan well. So I thought, okay, I'll do this other thing, which is helpful, but. But I'm actually not helpful there. And maybe I'm more valuable sitting on the beach because at least I'm, like, spending more money on the beach, and it's probably contributing to a local economy and a more effective way. And here I am slowly and poorly mixing cement. And, you know, and I'm, like, kind of consumed with this thing because of my narcissism by the same name. And so, like, I. So I start. So this is what I write about. And again, it just comes from me not being able to figure something out in my life. And because I'm funny, the movies can come out entertaining as opposed to just navel gazing. If I wasn't a funny person, the movies would be just like these kind of boring diary entries. But because I have this obsequious nature to make people laugh because of flaws from my childhood, I find that it's possible to tell a good story. Thanks. Thank you.

Well, you are absolutely excellent at it. And so you've also written plays, short story collections, you have a new play as well, and directed these award winning films. Based on the way you are and your experience and your personality, does one medium feel more just in tune to you than any other? What are you drawn to?

Yeah, I am driven in part by a real kind of inspiration, inspired, creative inner life and also just by like the fear of being somebody in a freelance profession. And I know maybe it sounds like false humility to call myself freelance because I'm like a successful person. But like every job I do ends in a period of like in a brief period of time. And then you have to find a new job. And like, so it is kind of like a weird tenuous relationship to feeling like being in a stable industry, if that makes sense. So like currently I'm doing like a one man show that I wrote. I'm doing it in New York every Monday through the rest of the year. And I'm also editing my new movie, which is a musical. And so I'm like, I do all these things and it seems like, wow, a prolific, inspired person. But inside it's like, I feel like one thing is gonna fail, but if I have enough plates balanced, then maybe one won't break. And I think maybe that's a very modern kind of feeling too.

It was so relatable. Right. I think we are all like, if we have multiple things going on, we're safe. Right? It's like a safety net.

Yes. And I wonder how healthy it is. No, no, because as I'm talking about, I'm talking about it here and I'm thinking about this for the first time being in San Francisco, which is like, you know, a place where like, you know, the gig economy was created and people are doing like a million things to stay afloat. And I wonder if like I'm doing the same thing, but like, I wouldn't compare myself to that because I, you know, I, I make probably more money, you know, but like, I do have this feeling of like. No, no, no. I mean, I'M not, like, struggling in any way. You know, I can't put myself in the position of somebody who's, like, struggling with, you know, three jobs to make a living. But I'm doing it maybe inspired by a similar thing of, like, something about it feels tenuous. I don't really ever feel, like, secure in my profession. I'm in a union and I get health insurance through the Screen Actors Guild. But like, five years ago, I didn't, like, work for, like, a year. And my.

You don't hit your minimums, you don't get your insurance.

Exactly. My plan was, like, demoted. And so, like, I look like a famous actor, but, like, my plan was, like, you know, I can't get glasses. And so. And so I really do feel. Feel like I'm in this kind of unstable profession. As great as it is for me, and I'm the luckiest person in the world, et cetera, you know, whatever. But, like, you know. No, but, like, really, it does feel like it feels more tenuous than it does feel stable.

Yeah. Yeah. And so we're here in San Francisco. We're going to talk a little bit about tech. I think, you know, thinking about the Social Network, I think it's one of the first times that it really caused audiences to look at how social media impacts our lives in a critical way. Shaping, impacting, destroying relationships at times. And so looking back 15 years later, do you see that film differently now than when you were in it?

What a great question. And I'd probably say no in the sense that I was terrified of it then, and I'm still terrified. Yeah. I mean, you know, when I was doing the movie, what I was really thinking about was, like, what is going on with my character? And I was thinking about it from my character's perspective, and what I felt was like, you know, here is a person that I was playing, and I'm thinking of him like a character. I don't know the real person, so I can't speak to that at all. But I'll speak to myself as an actor. I'm playing this person who feels very uncomfortable in living in, like, the traditional social environment, you know, where, you know, you're in a group of people and you have to make your presence known through normal, traditional social interactions and behavior. And so this person who felt that way created this thing kind of to make them feel more comfortable. And that thing kind of just creates like, a new, weird. Not weird, a new avenue to interact. So it's. Oh, you like X? I like X. We can now talk. And that's really wonderful in a lot of ways, but for me, I just felt like it had come from this feeling of being on the outside and. And it felt like. Just felt like there was a bit of a cheat to it, you know, like, I could do things this way. And for a lot of people, probably including myself, because I'm like an introverted kind of person, like, that way of socializing can be really beneficial, but it really does lose something. And the thing that it loses scared me at the time. I signed on to, like, Facebook for, like, 25 seconds when I was rehearsing for the movie, so I could just see what the program looks like or whatever. And, like, I got an email right away saying, we think you would be friends with this person. And the person it suggested was, like, a friend of my sister's from high school. And it just so freaked me out that they had made that connection, which now looks quite tame compared to what connections can be made. And I remember just thinking, this is not the way I feel I want to interact in the world. I don't have such social needs to begin with that I need to have 200 people who I used to know still in my life. So for me, it didn't feel like the right way to socialize, and I kind of still feel that way. And so I'm not on any of the platforms. But this is like a big, big caveat is that I'm a known person. And so I think if I wasn't like a famous person, probably I would really like that. Probably I would be on social media trying to make jokes and have people, but my whole life is quite exposed. And so for me, I really value my privacy and protect my privacy in a way that if I wasn't a known actor, I don't think I would have those concerns. So I probably have a very specific personal answer, but then also kind of just seeing it from the outside perspective as well.

Yeah, it definitely has had quite an impact. And I think being here in this conference, the speed in which tech has changed just in the past 12 months, when you were mentioning that you use AI in your personal life to kind of get you organized and things like that, but it also is having an impact across different industries, including media and entertainment. So when you think about digital and how it's changing the way we communicate as a storyteller, can you give us just, you know, how do you use it as a collaboration tool? Are there things that, you know, you think it risks, or what are you excited about? That it might be able to do.

So my main interaction with tech is like, I love ChatGPT. I'm on it all day for things in the realms of academia I'm curious about. You know, like, I have a thought about something. I'm like, has this ever been thought about? There must be 10 college thesis on this weird passing thought I had. Give me those. And what are they? And that's fascinating. I breathed a humongous sigh of relief last night when I asked it to look at a scene that I had written because I'm about to do reshoots on this movie I'm editing, and the scene was terrible. Like, this chatgpt scene was terrible. And I breathed a huge sigh of relief because it meant that we. That. And it was so pretentious. It was so pretentious. And it was like. It said something in, like, the action part was like, he smiles, she does not. And I was like, that's the worst thing I've ever seen written. You know, And I wrote to it. I was like, do you see how that's pretentious? And it said, like, oh, I could understand what you're saying, the kind of glibness that I use. And I was like, yes, you're right, it was glib. And I said, do it again and don't be pretentious. And it said, he smiles. She looks but does not. And I was like, nope, still terrible. And so I'm not worried that ChatGPT or whatever, insert any other name there, is doing what I'm doing yet. But it's definitely going to do something. And it's definitely better than what it was two years ago. But no, I think all writers live with this fear hanging over them. Like, at some point this is gonna be less pretentious. Or the pretentious writer is going, oh, my God, this is exactly what I would do.

So making that film.

Yeah, exactly. He smiles, she does not. Like, I wish I thought of that. It's so cool that he's smiling. But then she doesn't. For me, it was like, the worst thing I've ever read. But so, like, I'm like, I still have hope that, you know, there are. There's room for, you know, when I write, like, my new movie is a musical and it takes place in this kind of crazy world, and it came from an unconscious place of me thinking about parts of my life and interesting things you could do with the camera. And it seems very, very human in a way that I'd be surprised if AI caught up to So I think I'm safe for now, but I don't know, maybe we'll be here next year and I will be in a less nice suit.

Well, I think some of it too, is. It doesn't feel right, that connection. The reason why people respond so well to your work is because that connection, like, you have a way to tap into just the common things that people go through in a way that's, like, so real that ChatGPT can't do that for you.

So we hope. We hope. Or are we all a simulation? And I'm just reflecting what I've heard. You know, this is a complicated question that I plan on asking ChatGPT about later.

The philosophical discussions. You should record those and see how it goes, so.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, we have a lot of conversations. Imposter syndrome is always so real. And in business, I think we see leaders, they feel pressure to be very polished, in control. But your work has demonstrated that audience connects most with the. When people show their flaws, right, like, they're real. What can leaders learn from storytelling? When you think about that structure that you go through, turning that vulnerability into influence versus being scared of showing up.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think, goodness. What can leaders learn from storytelling that we as audiences, but also the other characters in the movie, tend to respond to people who seem like vulnerable human beings. You know, when we watch a movie, the characters we connect to are often vulnerable. They are not, you know, they're not like, you know, statues. And so for me, I've been now a leader. I'm putting it in quotes because I don't deserve non quotes around leader. And I'm directing these movies now, and they're big things. I have 150 employees on a movie, and I just always feel very comfortable just having kind of normal interactions with people and kind of expressing anxiety, hearing other people express their anxiety. Because to me, that's how, like, I can do my best work. And it seems to me how other people do their best work. I've worked on sets, like, not as a director, but as an actor, where people are terrified of the director. No one's doing a good job. Everybody is panicked. No one's happy. But even more than not being happy, they're not doing good work. They're doing work that's based out of fear. And if you're in any profession, but especially a creative one, it's like a death, you know, that's like a death. And so to me, when now I am in positions of, like, leadership, directing Producing these movies that I make, like, I just do the opposite. And I've just had amazing experiences. I directed three movies in the last four years, and, like, every experience has just been amazing. We've finished early, under budget on all three and with the same crew who, like, I love and who love me. Like, I mean, I'm hoping. Assuming, you know. Yeah, they all, like, love me. No, no, no. But, like, I mean, like, they're my friends too, you know, and so, like, yeah, to me, that is, like, my version of leadership. I, as an actor, shut down when I'm working for, like, a director who is, like, really tough. I just shut down because I'm terrified.

Right. And so I think that we all experience that, too. I think the true magic comes when people are willing to take risks. And if you're scared, you are not going to take that risk because you want to hold on. You're juggling all those plates because you want to make sure you always have something that is working. It just creates. I think it perpetuates what we talked about earlier, where you're constantly making sure that you've got something that's working. And so you just take out too much.

Exactly. That's a great way to put it. And I'll also say, like, the person who designed the costumes on my last movie, this woman Stacey, like, she's amazing costume designer. I know nothing. You obviously know a lot about clothing, but I don't. You know, it's all Target and, you know, like. And, like, So I don't know anything about that. So I'm watching this incredible person designed these costumes. If I were to, like, kind of dictate to her, you know, I let her get, you know, she had complete free rein. And I said, you know, just what are you inspired by? What are you thinking about? And she was amazing because she had that free rein. She told me. Thank you so much. Normally, directors come in with X, Y and Z because they have some vague ideas of what people wear. And I feel totally constricted. And so the movie was better for it.

And she did her best work. Absolutely great for it. Clearly, this was inspired by Interview with a Vampire. Just in case you were wondering, does.

That make me the vampire?

Yeah, I love it. Okay, so final question. Instead of advice to your younger self, because we typically ask those, let's look forward. What keeps you excited to create new stories and keep going? And then when you think about legacy, is there any impact that you hope your work leaves behind?

Thank you for asking that question. It makes me Want to call an estate lawyer? You know, I. Yeah. You know, I don't know. You know, I'm married to, like, an activist. She's. She. My wife teaches disability justice. She teaches formerly incarcerated kids. She's like a great person, and she. No one knows who she is. And I walk down the block, you know, I'll pick her up from, you know, teaching neediest people in our city. And I walk outside with her, and people come up to me and say, you've changed my life. Thank you so much. And I'm like, oh, that's definitely not true. And sorry. And like, you know, and so, like, when I think about, like, kind of like, what can I do? I don't know. You know, I think, like, I want to make things that are thoughtful. I want to make things that, like, you know, have a kind of. I don't know. Because I don't want to make movies that are explicitly political. Because I often think that politically explicit movies don't resonate with audiences because they can kind of see that they're being talked to and they feel didactic and they're bored and they turn off to them. And so when I think about what kind of stuff I want to make, I want to make stuff that can bring out a sense of empathy, that can exercise audiences feelings of empathy, which sometimes means having characters that are not totally likable, like Kieran Culkin plays in this movie, a character that's kind of tough to take, but by the end, our heart opens for him. And to me, I feel like that's kind of like exercising an empathy muscle in audiences. And I think that's probably something I could do better than, for example, be more, like, politically stringent or explicit. Yeah.

I think your work, when you think about the audiences, what you give us is a little bit of relatability, escape. You give us a way to connect and to think, how would I act in that situation? How would I connect with my family member? And it's almost like being able to see it ahead of time gives you the opportunity to decide. So if I ever encountered what I watched, how I would react is now something that I know. Right. Which I wouldn't have known had I not seen that. And I think the way you tell family stories really makes a difference.

So nice of you to say. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. You know, it's interesting. Cause I always think, like, what is it that we can all do best in? And, like. So I've tried to, like, teach in my wife's class, and I'M like, very bad. Like, I don't know what it is about me. I'm not a good teacher. Like, I don't know what happens to me. I feel like all the kids want to beat me up. And I think what happens to me is that I just get all these kind of, like, Pavlovian flashbacks to being back in class and feeling terrified. And so I'm a bad teacher, whereas my wife was well liked in school. So I think she walks into a classroom thinking, that's gonna happen again, and it does. And so, like, I kind of think, like, okay, what can I do? You know? What can I do? What is the thing I do best? And, like, I think, like, through kind of accessible movies that have, like, a thoughtfulness to them, I think that's probably maybe where my talents and value lies.

Yeah. Well, just to wrap up, I will also tell you that I learned that the number one rule is cardio. And I know if there is ever a zombie apocalypse, y' all can just push me over and get a head start, because that's not gonna happen.

Me, too. Me too. It's the one acting, you know, exercise I really didn't get into was the running for that movie. I've engaged with all of my characters except the ones who are physically fit.

I love it. Well, we truly appreciate you being here for sharing your story, for sharing your vulnerability and your art with us today. So everyone, please thank Jesse Eisenberg.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you, Carolyn. You're so sweet. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. I hope I didn't make everybody depressed. Okay, bye.

Bye.