Equality Summit: The Path To Equal Pay: A Conversation With Natalie Portman | Salesforce

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Cindy Robbins, president, chief people officer, Salesforce.

Good afternoon, everyone. Is everyone having fun at Dreamforce?

Awesome.

Well, I am thrilled to introduce team, two fantastic women who are going to come on the stage and talk about a topic I am very passionate about, which is equal pay. And this is a topic that rose to the forefront here at Salesforce a few years ago. A few years ago, when my dear friend and colleague and product executive Leila Seiko. Where's Leila? I know she's somewhere. There you are. We had surged our careers here at Salesforce at the same time. We both got promoted about the same time. And then we decided to put our heads together and write some ideas down about ways we could support and elevate women in the workplace here at Salesforce. And so some of those ideas included increasing maternity leave for women. And it also included putting some programs together to really identify those high potential women and elevate them into leadership roles. And it also included equal pay. And we took those ideas to my boss and our CEO Marc Benioff. We spoke up and we asked him for his support. He's a CEO, he's a decision maker. He sets the tone and vision for the company. And he said, go do it all. But there was one idea, there was one idea that we also talked to him about that Layla and I could not take credit for. And that was an idea of a women's summit, a women's summit at Dreamforce, something that we had not done before. And that was an idea that was originated from a fantastic leader here at Salesforce named Molly Ford. Got some Molly fans in the house, and Molly knew to get it over the line, she needed a champion, she needed an advocate to help her. And she enlisted that support in Layla. And so we added it to that menu. And not only did Molly execute flawlessly, but this summit has become something bigger with a bigger message. So with that, please welcome a dear friend, a colleague, a role model and mentor and a fantastic leader, Molly Ford. All right, and now, which you guys have all been waiting for, I'm very thrilled to introduce our next guest. This is her first Dreamforce. Natalie Portman is not just a brilliant actress and director, she's also a Harvard graduate. She's had leading roles in films such as Star Wars V for Vendetta and directed A Tale of Love and Darkness. She also received the industry's highest honor, an Academy Award for groundbreaking performance in Black Swan. And after winning the Oscar, Nallie discovered that in her role in no Strings Attached, she was paid A third as much as her male costar. So since discovering this disparity, Nallie has gone on to become a vocal advocate for closing the gender wage gap and given voice to this really critical issue. So today we are hosting her at the Dreamforce equality summit and recognizing her as an equal pay trailblazer. So without further ado, please give a warm train force welcome to Natalie Portman.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Hi.

Thank you.

Natalie. Hi.

So we liken Dreamforce to a family reunion. So welcome to your family, your dreamforce.

Thank you for Salesforce family.

So I want to get right to it. You've won an Academy Award for your role in Black Swan. Tell us about that experience.

It was incredible, the process of making the film. I feel like many of you probably can relate. The creative process is always the most fulfilling. And then when you actually see the connection with people. And of course, to receive accolades is incredibly flattering and meaningful from your community, but the creation process is kind of the center of it all. That's cool.

So tell us about your journey. Where did it all start in Israel? Your childhood, how did that shape who you are now?

I was born in Jerusalem, and when I was three, we moved to the United States. My mom's American, my dad's Israeli. And then we moved a lot when I was growing up. By the time I was nine, we settled just outside of New York on Long island. And where people say Long island from Long Island. And then when I was there, I started auditioning. A lot of kids where I lived would audition for commercials, TV shows. And then I got my first. The first part I ever got was the professional when I was 11 years old.

Absolutely.

Thank you. And then from there, I just was lucky enough to get to continue acting and have been going since. And my parents really stressed school, so I was never allowed to miss school. I only worked in the summers. I went to college right after high school. And it was a great thing that they enforced in me because I think it protected me from a lot of things within the industry. Always made me feel like I could take another path if I wanted to at any point, which I feel like a lot of actors who start as children maybe feel like, what else am I going to do? I don't have the tools to do something else if I don't like this anymore. So I always felt like I was choosing my. My career.

And speaking of, like, choosing your path, you graduated with a 4.0 and went to Harvard. That's an amazing path. Tell us about how that experience was.

It was really incredible. And I was lucky to go to school. Like Facebook was created while I was a senior. So I got to go to school basically without social media. And I think that was a big deal as an actress to get to have that experience of just having a real college experience without people like taking pictures of me in class or like, you know, writing about stupid things I said or whatever in a seminar.

Right.

And it was great. It was. I still, it's. My best friends in the world are from school. And it gave me sort of this real foundation of people that I could continue learning from the rest of my life. And also, I think the courage to have a voice because it was demanded from me for the first time where people were like asking for my opinion on a regular basis.

That sounds important, that learning to have your own voice. And right now we're seeing in the news and in our both related industries, whether it's tech or Hollywood, we're seeing women find their voices. And so talk about what that means when you see people kind of stand up.

Well, it's been incredibly powerful, of course, these past few weeks in my industry to see women and men come forward and voice their experiences that had previously been silenced. And they're incredibly brave. And I mean, I've heard well meaning men in the past few weeks be like they want attention or whatever. And it makes me so ill to hear that because people who come forward with these kinds of things have nothing to gain and everything to lose by speaking up. And it's incredibly brave. And it's something that we really need to encourage and foster is women's voice. And women's, particularly women, of course everyone, but particularly women do not have the sort of practice as much as men do at an early age of being a boss and being an advocate for themselves and for the women around them.

Yeah. This morning we were talking about women being bossy and I nicknamed it leadershipy. It's leadershipy.

Oh, yeah. No, but I think bossy. We can, we can also own being a boss. You know, we need like boss school for girls, right? We do. It's because it's important. It's important to know what it is to ask someone in a direct way, in an unapologetic way, to do something because you are their superior and to be comfortable with that position. And that's, you know, it's absolutely an issue of opportunity for women, but it's also an issue of women having enough practice and confidence in doing so, which some women have. And some women need help practicing because it's not. It hasn't been socially encouraged.

So what are those things in your journey that helped you find your voice? Were there events? Was it how you were raised? What are those things that helped you find that inner Natalie?

Well, directing was a huge deal and actually made me feel like it would be an incredible exercise for students. And I mean, maybe not directing film. Maybe there is equivalence in other kind of arts or business models that we can give as sort of practice activities for young, young girls and women. Because just the act of saying, will you please do this? Will you please do that? This is how I want this. This is. And a group of people who are your team, and obviously, you can take turns in these groups of, you know, who's the boss to. On different projects so that people get the opportunity to practice being it. Because it's a very powerful experience. And you kind of have to experience it to know what that is and to understand that the more clear you are, the more. Because I feel like I always define myself as part of my identity, as like, I'm easy, I'm nice. And it took me so long to realize, oh, I want to identify myself that way because that's what is encouraged in women, and that is what is applauded in women, is not to be difficult. I'm not difficult.

Sure.

Whatever you want. You want me to do it this way? No problem. Where should we go for dinner? Whatever. What color do you want this? Oh, it doesn't matter. And then when you're a director, everyone needs you. Or when you're the boss, everyone needs you to say, I want it this way, I want it that way. Because that makes their job easier to clear direction.

Great. I call that shot calling. I like that. Go this way.

That it's not difficult. It's being direct.

Absolutely. So January 21, 2017, you, with thousands of other millions of women, probably took to the streets to protest. Tell us what the Women's March was like for you. Absolutely.

Yeah, it was. I'm sure many of you were there. It was so powerful and such an incredible moment for feeling that this moment in history is actually engaging us and inspiring us to stand up for what we believe in and recognize that the fight's not over and things that we might have taken for granted are not actually goals achieved and that we have to keep working and keep striving and keep fighting. And it was really. It was, yes, hopefully, the beginning of a movement. It felt like that day.

Did you ever feel like maybe you shouldn't speak out for gender equality? Or maybe that's something you shouldn't voice. Did you ever fear it might hurt your brand or how people perceived you?

No, I didn't. I think the thing I've been sensitive about is I have a son. I have a son and a daughter. And my son, when he sees, like, you know, the future is female T shirts or whatever, he's like, what? What about me? And I think it's important to address, like, the future is all. All of us, and we love men. We need to add seats to the table. We're not taking away seats. We need to include everyone. It's not, you know, this is for the betterment of everyone's world.

I like to say equality is like a slice of pie, and it's not like a slice of pie. We're not going to run out. There's enough for everyone.

It's not a zero sum situation.

Absolutely. So what are some of your favorite roles that you've played?

Well, Black Swan was definitely incredible. It's always fun when you get to learn a new thing. So getting to train in the dance world, obviously I didn't become a ballerina, but to get just that exposure was incredible. Getting to work in Hebrew on the film that I made, A Tale of Love and Darkness was incredible because I got to dive into a whole language and world that I had only sort of dipped my toe in. Jackie recently was an incredible experience. Getting to get into that whole historical world and learn so much about her. So that's the fun part about my work is getting to kind of go deeply into all these different areas.

So we probably have a lot of Star wars fans here at Salesforce, and so they're thinking, queen Amidala has landed. So tell us about that experience and how that worked for you.

It was so wild. I was 16 when I made the first one, so that was just crazy because I had never worked with green screen. It was really one of the first movies made, I think that was almost entirely green screen. And that is very different experience because it's almost like the purest form of acting because you're in a room with nothing. It's like being a kid and having, like, a refrigerator box and being like, this is our spaceship, you know, as opposed to when you're doing, you know, a movie that's just about people and our real world. You're, like, in an actual house with an actual table with an actual other person next to you that you're talking to. And this was. All of a sudden, you're talking to, like, an ex. On a. On a tennis ball, you know, and you're just like, not, you know, so everything, both external and internal, has to be in your head. And so it was a completely different skill that, you know, I feel like I'm still working on, you know, having done Thorn and other films that have green screen since then.

What's your training process, how you get into a role?

It's different for each one because each one demands different things. So I'm starting something now that I'm playing kind of like a messed up pop star and role models.

Yeah.

And so I'm doing like, you know, singing, dancing. It's a. It's fun. It's a fun thing for a tired mom to get to do in her spare time.

That's exciting. So when you portray these powerful women in these roles, what have you drawn from those characters? What are you learning? What are you pushing for?

I think you just want to have the truth of the person. I think artistically, in terms of being feminist, people talk about strong women, powerful women. You're like, no, the actual feminist thing is to show women and all humanity. It's not feminist to just have, like, someone kick ass, you know, it's like, that is just. You want to see a range of possibility. We want to see many different types of women on screen. Powerful, vulnerable, and women who are able to express different things in the same character. Because sometimes I feel powerful and sometimes I feel super weak. Sometimes I feel beautiful, Sometimes I feel disgusting. You know, I mean, I think every one of us has these different ranges of emotion, confidence, all of that. And to artistically accurately represent women in the same range as we've seen men, you know, portrayed on film, what are.

Your thoughts about that in terms of the roles and the selection, the opportunities available for women, and kind of maybe creating your own opportunities, it's a big deal.

I am shocked by how many roles for women I receive that are about child in peril or having been raped. Where you're like, oh, my God. People are thinking that the only thing that could emotionally motivate a woman are those two things, which is just insane. When I, like, if those things are in a script, I almost immediately don't want to be part of it because it just feels overly represented. But it's an issue. It's an issue and definitely needs more female involvement on the creative level. And I've been trying to do that now with writing and directing my own work.

What's your dream role?

I don't know that I have a dream role. I just I think I want. One of the things about acting that's wonderful is getting to experience things that you don't experience in your life. So I think that's a big focus for me right now is trying to do things that are not playing a harried mother, because that's what I am in real life.

We can identify with that. As you actress mother, how are you approaching it all?

Well, I think that that's, you know, a lot of people have a hard time with women being asked these questions, but it's such a big part of working mothers lives and uses such an enormous amount of mental energy. And I actually feel like it's a huge thing that in everyone's particular industry would be incredible for women to get together and almost train each other and men welcome to participate too. And the more male involvement in parenting, the better it is for kids and mothers as well. But it takes such an enormous amount of mental energy to organize yourself. And it's so strange that you go through all this schooling and, and no one ever talks to you about that. It's like that's the only thing that would have been practical for my life. It's like that if someone could have sat me down and said this is how you organize so that you have like food prepared before you go to work. And like, you know, I mean, it's crazily simple stuff that.

Right.

It's like I feel like I have to build this from scratch. And every woman I talk to feels like they have to also. And it seems like we can teach each other and help each other. And it's specific to industry, of course, because we all do different things. So I mean, it's maybe not. I don't know if it's politically correct to be saying it, but I do think we need like training for how to be working mothers. The same way that like we might learn economics. And no one's teaching us like how to invest in high school or something, you know, like it's giving you like a piece of the tools but not the practical ones that will make your life better when you're actually a participant in the world.

Absolutely. So we had an interesting conversation about equal pay. And you know that Salesforce is known for having done an assessment and we talked about. It's a different context. Maybe if you say an engineer, equal pay for equal work. But kind of give us your story and how you feel about the gender wage gap.

Well, it's obviously a huge issue in every industry and is very different in film and for actors. Because we're probably more akin to like sports athletes because we are more commodities and, you know, it's not like the longer you're working, the more valuable you are or, you know, equal pay for equal work is. It has to do with how marketable you are, what kind of name you have, whatever. But the thing that I guess is consistent is that the methods in which the higher ups calculate people's wages is not transparent. And also for film is not really methodical. It's a little bit like, what do you think this person's worth might say about this? Based on whatever I think of their last few films that have come out in the success. So it's a different issue again for every industry and needs to be addressed as such per industry, but is incredibly important to address because we need to reach a point where we're all looked at as people and not by gender and obviously just kind of get beyond gender.

Absolutely. So. So one of the things you're working on philanthropically is about microfinance. And so tell us a little bit about that and why that's important to you.

Well, microfinance, for many of you probably know, is a concept where you putting giving a small investment to a woman, primarily women's businesses in developing countries. And then it has all of these sort of trickle effects of, you know, they end up having better housing, better education for their children, better health care, later age when they have their first child. And so basically you can really have this incredible effect in a community. And the women, they form village banks where they insure each other. And if someone doesn't make back their loan, it's because they pay back their loans, they insure each other and they put social pressure on them to. That's what kind of is the collateral is that they, as a group, ensure that all of the investment will be paid back. And it's been incredibly successful and. And has been really rewarding to be part of for many years. I've worked with a group called Finca, and that's been really incredible to get to meet women who are part of this and just working so hard and so engaged by the opportunity.

What spawned that in you? What made you want to start giving back and kind of going on this journey for equality?

Well, being from Israel, I think I've been unfortunately exposed to this long standing. Not unfortunately that I was exposed to it, but exposed to this unfortunate conflict my whole life. And when I started looking into it, I reached out to Queen Rania of Jordan, which was very lucky that I had access to meeting her and who's of course an incredible. One of the most high profile Palestinian women in the world and wanted to reach out about working together on something. And she said, well, it's not more than anything, it's hope gap that this economic, there's this economic difference that creates despair in the Palestinian community. And I said, well, what do you think is the best remedy? And she introduced me to microfinance. So that was sort of how I got directed to that and understood that so many of these political conflicts are actually economic conflicts at their core and then manifest in different ways.

So yesterday, I know you joined us for Michelle Obama and just kind of give us your thoughts and your reaction to that powerful conversation.

She's such an incredible woman. Of course, I mean, any of you were there. It was really, really inspiring just to see someone who's so, such a great leader and also someone who's so genuine at the same time, who can be in front of people and also seem just like such a real deep, good person. And it was very inspiring to hear how she created her sort of focus and her platform and went really deep on those issues of health and why she, she knew she could be effective in that way. Is that something I always wonder? It's like there seem to be so many things that we need to tackle at this moment in history. How do you focus your energy? Because it feels like you should be doing this and that and that and that. And to hear her be like, you have to figure out where you're going to have the most impact. That was really meaningful to listen to.

That's powerful. So let's go back to your Harvard commencement speech. Much that you remember. You talked about owning your own meaning. And I interpreted that as kind of defining yourself. Can you explain that?

Well, I think that so many, especially people who maybe are good at getting good grades, because I feel like, you know, we define people as like smart or successful or whatever, but there's a type of person who might be obedient and good at getting grades, or that might be the type of person who.

Had a 4.0 and you went to Harvard.

No, but I feel like you get to a place like Harvard and you're like, oh, some of these people are really special and some of these people are good at following rules. I follow into the latter flatter category, you know, and. There's a moment which I don't know, sometimes I'm like, is this obvious to everyone else? And just took me a really long time to figure out, but that it's not about pleasing someone else. It's not about getting a grade for someone to pat you on the back, which is also, I think, a female, very female, socially constructed female behavior to be, like, pleasing someone. But it's about finding your path and your meaning and what's meaningful to you. And we're really at a moment too, in our country where I think there's a crisis in meaning. You know, there's a crisis in knowing what is your core and what matters. And it's, you know, we've got just the rampant. We're in an addict country. We're addicted to our phones. We're addicted to our binging tv. We're addicted to opioids. We're addicted to news coming in violently on your phone like just an onslaught. We're all addicts. I'm an addict. And we have to, like the antithesis to that addiction is meaning finding what is meaningful, like fostering the time that you spend with someone you love that's not on a phone. Time that you spend doing something, creating something beautiful, doing something that means something to you at your core. And it seems like the only antidote right now to. I mean, we all have addict brains that are so easily snapped. And, you know, I think every industry has learned from tobacco that you get people addicted and you make money, you know, so we've become slaves to all of this technology and actual, actual addictive substances in this country. And it's changing everything. And meaning seems to be, you know, your personal core meaning seems to be the antithesis of that.

That's powerful. Your core meaning. Absolutely. So how do you unplug?

What?

How do you unplug? How do you get away from all that?

Well, I have to say, it is really. It's a conscious effort all the time. I try and make rules about phone use. Also things like playing with my kids, you know, exercising, seeing art, reading, sitting in a theater for two hours and watching music or dance or actual theater, a film. These are actually times. They're like sanctuaries from technology. Now, if you're disciplined enough not to look at your phone while you're watching a movie or while you're at a concert or while you're playing with your kids, if you can make those kinds of rules, I think that it gives these. I find all of a sudden my mood improves and everything is better when I have these respites. It's to read an hour before I go to sleep, which, of course, these are all luxuries of time and money. I know it's not like everyone can. I mean, these things happen once in a while for me. But playing with your kids, right, or if you don't have kids, go play with someone else's kids or play with some dog or, I don't know, find something pure and joyful to do. And it's, It's. It's important right now because it's. I mean, we all suffer from this, like, phone malaise, I think.

Absolutely. What do you want to be known for?

I don't expect to be known. I feel like we're all flashes in the. In time, you know. But of course, paying attention to people around me and trying to improve their days is always a good place to start.

Absolutely. So Dreamforce, we have a bunch of techies here. We're all loving this industry. Is tech touching your life a lot?

Oh, yeah, all of us. And it's interesting. We. We talk about it a lot in our household of, like, which are the things that we feel like improve our lives. Which are the things we feel like complicate our lives because it's more the general addictive nature of it that feels like it's, you know, like technology should be making us freer to have that time running around playing with our kids, and somehow it's making us more 24 hours working more 24 hours. I mean, this is not the first time anyone is talking about this. I know this is commonly spoken of, but I think we have to ask ourselves that question. Like, our view in the 50s of, like, the future of technology, where you could sit back and let robots do stuff with you and do stuff for you and you're just enjoying life and, like, fishing with your buddies or whatever, and watching the kids, you know, like, play or, you know, seeing, you know, running in the forest with your dog, you know, while robots do the work. It's like the opposite of what technology is actually brought to us. We're actually just looking at, looking down instead of at the world all the time.

So we're telling everyone to join us on this path to equality and be equality trailblazers. How do you suggest people go about this life of trying to find that meaning, to be passionate and do something with purpose?

Well, in terms of equality, I think that. I think that we need to. We need to change the conversation in a lot of ways. I mean, I keep hearing, I keep hearing people being like, I care about women, I have daughters, or I would never stand for that. If someone did that to my girlfriend or my wife. And you're like, this should be because we're people. I mean, I respect that. I know you're well meaning, but, like, this shouldn't happen. Even if I'm not someone's daughter and I'm not someone's wife or girlfriend, like, you should respect me. I'm not someone's property that, like, respect me because I'm the property of a man in some way or related to a man in some way. And I think we need to be looking at everyone as humans. It's not, you know, because, you know, I have a gay cousin, so I feel for gay. It's a person, like, feel for them because they're a person. They deserve to be treated with full dignity and full opportunities just like everyone else. And then the other thing I keep hearing a lot is, like, we want to hire these people, but they don't exist. Like, we don't have people who have any experience being on boards, or we don't have people who are experience being like electricians on a movie who are female. And you're like, maybe it's because you didn't give them a chance and maybe you need to give. Like, they're not gonna ever get the experience if they don't get the job first. Like, how did all those men on your board get their first job on a board? Like, you have to give people their first chance and you have to mentor people and let people apprentice. And, like, if you're serious about having 50, 50 men and women in the near future, which I think many of us are talking about in the next seven to 10 years, and not just men and women, also people of color, which will be 50% of our population by, what, 20, 40? I think something like that. Also LGBTQ community, also people with disabilities, which I'm not sure if that's the correct term. I'm sorry. But I mean, we need to create a community in every industry that looks like the world, that looks like, you know, we just. We can't be. It can't continue the way it's been going on. So it seems like per industry, people need to have the conversation, how do we train this generation, the next generation? So there are people at every level that you can be like, hire that person. Hire that person. Hire that person and give people their first story, first chance.

Right. And don't you feel like this next generation really has an amazing opportunity in front of them? They just don't have the same baggage as other generations, including my own.

Yeah, absolutely. It's really. It's really exciting. And, you know, I mean, some of the, like, the gender neutral stuff has been so hard. It makes me feel like an old person to, like, be like. I don't. I'm, like, saying the wrong thing, you know, Like, I need to. But I think it's. I so understand it because this is just the desire to not be seen as other, to be seen as human. Like, these divisions are. Like, I don't want to walk in the room and be like, what's your opinion? You're the woman here. Like, I want to be like your person. You have a different experience from every other person. I have a different experience from every other woman in this room. I have a different experience from every other Jew in this room. Like, I don't want to be a representative for everyone. I don't want to be the only one. And I think just that treating people like people and that has to do with why you don't want to be like she or, you know, I understand that. That it would be. It's you. You want to be free also to have the parts of you that might conform to the stereotype of the parts that. That don't conform all in one. And it doesn't mean you're. It's understandable and it's inspiring. And I feel like I'm learning from this young generation who's like, we don't even need these labels anymore.

Absolutely. Yeah. Any parting words for us?

Any what?

Parting words? Any last words for us?

Oh, I'm so honored to be with all of you. And you guys obviously know a lot more in your own experience about this than I do, and I'm excited for you guys to change your field and for me to learn from what you guys do in your industries because. And also lots of white men who are great and who are wonderful and who I love and I feel like white men, white straight men. Love you guys. Be part of this. You're our heroes. You need to be our champions with us, and it's gonna be better for everyone. Like, this is inclusive and this isn't. Like, I think that needs to be part of.

Absolutely. There is a role for the cisgender male to be an ally. There absolutely is.

Yeah. And also, like, all of us need to be advocates. Like, I need to be an advocate for non white actresses. I need to, you know, I need to be an advocate for LBGTQ community. Like, all of us need to advocate for each other that our environment looks like the world.

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you so much.