Equality Trailblazers: A Conversation with Bernard J. Tyson, Kaiser Permanente | Salesforce

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome senior director, Global equality programs, Salesforce, Molly Ford. Good morning. I've got my folding chair, but I will not be pulling any antics like Janet Jackson last night. Don't worry. We won't need a paramedic. I want to talk to you today about pulling up a chair. I want to talk to you about my equality journey and hopefully impart some wisdom on all of you and. And share a great story. So if they don't give you a seat at the table, you bring a folding chair. Okay? This is Shirley Anita Chisholm. She is the first black woman in congress. She's the first black or African American woman to run for a presidential nomination in a major political party in 1972. 1972. This is a time when some people didn't want this woman in a room because she was a woman and because she was black. I want to talk about Shirley's journey, but more importantly, what we all can learn from this journey. Right? And talk about times in our lives where a folding chair was necessary. So there's a saying that goes, talent is evenly distributed, but opportunity is not. So think about a time where the talent was there, but the resources may have been few. So I'm going to tell you stories about my journey and where there might have been a chair provided for me. So these are some of my mentors, people that have impacted positively the journey in my career. So Layla Seka. Layla modeled for me opening doors and taking my ideas into rooms, but keeping my name on it. Right? So when someone takes your ideas forward, but they don't erase your name. They keep your name attached to those ideas. That's providing a seat at the table. The second Cindy Robbins. When Salesforce decided to focus on diversity and inclusion and later naming it equality, Cindy tapped me for this because she understood that this was a passion of mine and equality was something that I really wanted to work on. And the third led to our hiring of our chief equality officer and my boss, bestboss ever, Tony Profitt. And Tony modeled leadership for me. How do leaders react when times are tough? How do leaders make great decisions? And more importantly, how do they advocate for others and provide that chair? And Tony just didn't provide a folding chair for me. He provided a permanent seat for me. Right? And that's the opportunity for leadership. So I want to tell you a story. Two years ago, Tony came to Dreamforce. It was his opportunity as our first chief equality officer, Dreamforce. He said, I'm going to a networking event with some young adults, and I Met this amazing kid there, and I really think he's talented. And Tony does this thing where he mentions it kind of like once, twice. By the third time, you know, I'm supposed to act on that. That means action, right? And so he mentioned this amazing talent. And this program this student was from was called Year Up. So Year up is a program that takes students from underserved communities and really gives them an opportunity of a year of intensive training, a year of learning professional how to succeed in a professional workplace. So we found this talent, and I realized that was my opportunity to make sure that I was providing that seat. I knew that was an opportunity, a call to action for me, so I was able to provide that seat because I found someone who was talented and just in need of an opportunity. So this student we found had been working a few jobs, going to college, and really not sure what the next step in their career path or their journey would be. And so I met this great talent, and we had the opportunity to provide this person with a job. Not only a job, an internship that led to a career, and someone who went from I don't know what my next step is or what I'm doing to. To becoming the person who manages a social media handle of a Fortune 500 company. That's a big deal. And that person is with us. It's Marcus Stevenson, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Marcus Stevenson here. But I tell you Marcus's story, because what I'm trying to say is someone one day had to pull out a folding chair for me, and maybe that chair led to a permanent chair. But what are you doing in your career? What are you doing in your journey? To make sure that you're providing that chair for someone else, to make sure that you're opening that door for someone else. So when I said, marcus, I'm proud of you. You're an awesome talent. You're a hard worker. You're hungry. And I do hope one day you'll hire me and I can work for you. But I tell you that because I want us to all ask ourselves, what who are we pulling out chairs for? Who are we opening doors for? Who's coming behind us into tech? Who's coming behind us into leadership? And make sure that we are the ones that are driving the change that we want to see. So I'll leave my chair and I'm happy to introduce you and welcome you to Dreamforce Equality Day. We have a great lineup of sessions today where we're focused on not just equality, but also climate change, ending our day with an amazing keynote. So our first session, I'm really happy to introduce this. About two years ago, a newsletter came out called Race Ahead. How many of you are familiar with Race Ahead? And it was exactly the time that I had got this job inequality. And there was an interview with an African American CEO, Bernard J. Tyson of Kaiser. And Ellen McGirt had written this article. And I immediately got Race Ahead. I got the article. I forwarded it to Mark Benioff, our CEO, but Mark is more up on news than anybody, so he had already read it by the time I sent it to him. And I said, we gotta have them on a stage. We've gotta have these great, powerful conversations where people look on stages and they see their sheroes and their heroes recognized and reflected back at them because we all know that representation matters. So with that, I want to introduce our first panel. Ellen McGirt, the senior editor of Fortune, and Bernard J. Tyson, the CEO of Kaiser. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, I'm on the verge of tears.

Bernard, welcome.

Thank you.

This is like a reunion. I just want to say, before we dig into the meat of what we're going to talk about here, I do want to say a couple of nice things about you because this does feel like coming home a little bit for me. Three years ago, when I established the race beat at Fortune, which was a little bit by accident, actually, Bernard Tyson was there for me. He pulled out a chair for me. It was an extraordinary conversation that kicked off a series of conversations which includes many of you in the room, including James and Tony and Marcus and Molly. This feature explored why there were so few black men in corporate executive ranks, which is actually an incredibly emotional conversation to have. And Bernard shared his personal journey, which you'll hear a little bit more about in a moment. But he also imprinted on me a holistic and broad message of equity and equality and how a child who doesn't have access to clean food or a safe home or a hopeful family can never grow up to be the CEO or leader we hope that they will be. And that expansive vision changed me. It changed Fortune. It's changed the way I report. It's also transformed Kaiser permanente and your 21,000 plus employees and your many millions of members in the communities that they live in and serve. But I think the thing I admire most about you, and then we're going to get down to business, is how you lead out loud. You're fearless. If you don't follow him, his influencer blogs on LinkedIn you absolutely should. He's also very busy on social media. But that you use your platform and your voice, at sometimes at risk to yourself to raise issues of justice and equality and fairness to me is the hallmark of leadership in the modern age. So I'm so happy to be reunited with you, and I'm so happy to speak with you again. And I want to begin by asking you about a very big check you wrote recently. You started this year, you announced a $200 million impact investment fund that is designed to address, among many other things, homelessness. Could you tell us a little bit about this fund and how it fits into your broader vision of a healthier world?

Oh, sure. And it's great to see you again. We were in the back talking briefly, and I mentioned, I think the last time we were together, we were in New Orleans at the Essence Festival. And just right quick, I learned the night before that Oprah Winfrey was going to be the keynote speaker the same day. And she was going to speak like 30 minutes after I was. You and I were to do our piece. And so I was really upset at Oprah. You know, she's going to show up and take the audience. Nobody's going to be there for us and all that stuff. And my wife was laughing at me. And I said, you probably won't even come hear me.

You'll be at Oprah trying to get the good seats.

Yeah. Then we learned that we were going to be on stage before Oprah, on the same stage, every button, every seat.

7,000 people because of Oprah.

We spoke to 7,000 people that day. I love Oprah. So the Impact Investment Fund is Kaiser Permanente's way of putting our money where our mouth is. Right. We are very clear that we believe in total health. And we think that total health and how we all ought to think about health today is not just from a medical standpoint. It's all about all the pieces that makes up a person's life. Where you live, how you eat, do you exist in communities where there's recreation, are you safe, are you employed, are means of income, et cetera. And so in our holistic view, in all of our communities around the country, we have worked with communities to understand what the critical needs are in the given communities around the country in which Kaiser Permanente provides care and coverage. And we began to look at this particular issue of the unaffordability of housing that leads to a lot of things, added mental stress, you name it. It's one of those factors that if you don't have it. It's a major missing ingredient towards thriving and good health. So it is from that standpoint we started to really talk about what can we do to have an impact and have a positive impact. And then we came in touch with this possibility of how we can be part of this impact investment fund. And this allows us to use our community benefit funds to invest in the betterment of the communities in which we exist. And this is not a giveaway program, a social program. This really is a program that makes a difference in giving communities some of the investments have a return back that we then can return back into the community.

Okay.

And so one of the areas that we're focused on is the homeless problem in this country by specifically focusing in these communities. And it really is based on a belief that these are issues of the 21st century that's now on our collective watch. And the question is, what are we going to do about it? And at Kaiser Permanente, we believe strongly that people living on the streets of America as their home is just unacceptable and we ought to collectively own the problem and work to solve it together. Thank you.

So what does success look like for this venture? What are the benchmarks you're looking at?

We're going to start with selecting a couple of communities and really going end to end working with a lot of people who've been working on this problem for a long time. So I do want to be clear. It's not like we just woke up one day and said, bam, we're going to solve this problem. A lot of people have been working on this problem. I would say, though, from a personal standpoint, I am guilty of. Of. In my history of walking past the homeless and not paying attention to them. And then one day I looked up and saw that that could be me. Right? And it's a sense of collective ownership that we all should have about how do we help those in our communities who are less fortunate. And so one of the signs of success for us is really keeping account around how do we have to eliminate this problem? And I mean end to end, not just going into temporary housing or finding a temporary solution. I mean, really get into a sustainable system where somebody could be self sufficient and. Or in cases where you have some of the homeless on the street that really are suffering from mental illnesses, for example, in which they need additional support systems around them to get them plugged into those kinds of systems.

So this is these. It's been a terrible problem for a long time in every city I've ever lived in, including in San Francisco and New York. And I, too, have been guilty of walking by people just at some point, you just can't take it all in. You can't process it, all of it. And it feels, and this is kind of a philosophical question. It feels like we're living in a time where there's less energy for compassion and less belief in a collective solution. And maybe it's just because I write a daily column on race. So I'm inundated with a lot of really tough rhetoric. How do you see this kind of work or the work that you do as being a catalyst for people to care, to be awake, and to look at the really hard problems?

You know, I would challenge that a little bit. I think that the stresses that people are under today is so intense. I think that while we live in the wealthiest country in the world, there are a lot of people who have been shut out of the prosperity of this country. Right. Of all the things that we've produced to make us a global force in the 21st century, not everyone has benefited from the wealth that's been created in our short history, you know, from the 70s, 80s, 90s into the 21st century. And so you have a lot of people who are struggling just to get by. There are a lot of people on the brink of being homeless within their own homes. And so you have people genuinely wanting to help and trying to figure out how to help. But quite frankly, they're waking up every day dealing with their own headaches.

Right.

And they're vulnerable.

And they're vulnerable. Vulnerable. And even with that said, I've seen people show the compassion and I've seen people step up. I mean, we're dealing with it right now, with the work that we're doing just everyday, good people who want to do good are figuring out a way. And Kaiser Permanente is trying to offer opportunities that it's a we solution that we're going after. And that's the beauty of these initiatives. You know, if you look at, for example, the GoFundMe phenomenon, that people are willing to donate and help and contribute people's healthcare. Yeah, exactly. So I, you know, I remain optimistic that the human spirit is still alive.

Yeah, I think you're right.

It's just.

And I think you're. That's a very powerful point about people who are left out. Because we're really examining, I think, as a country, the barriers that were designed on purpose to keep people out and dismantling them as best that we can.

Absolutely. No, absolutely. I mean, it's A systemic issue. Right, right. And so we could go after the individual situations, but really, especially now, it's about backing up and looking at the infrastructure that allows certain things to happen.

Right. Like a historic lack of access to credit markets leads to three generations of people who are insecure in their own homes.

That's exactly right. Yes.

And need medical attention that they can't get.

Yes. Right, yeah.

Yeah. So what is the. What is the corporate sector, the public public or the business sector? What role do we have to play and how can we partner? And you're an expert at this.

We play a critical role. And there are a lot of examples of that happening. Maybe we're all benefiting from one of them now, which is organizations like Salesforce and Kaiser Permanente. And, you know, I say that about Salesforce, even though I'm on the board of Salesforce. I love Salesforce, But, I mean, it's just a great example of an organization that can obviously meet the demands of the business while also contributing to and meeting the demands of the greater society. I think every company of size and magnitude. And by the way, you mentioned Kaiser Permanente and you said we had 21,000. So we have 200 employees, 25,000 employees.

As I took my glasses off, it's like, oh, my gosh.

In our permanent medical.

Thank you for fixing that.

And we're privileged to take care of almost 13 million people. Right. So we have an obligation, period, to exist and be a part of our communities and to contribute to our communities, not to stand off. And so I think every major company have that opportunity and that obligation. I believe strongly in public private partnerships as a way of combining resources and expertise to make a difference. And we really need more of that in the 21st century.

So this would be a good time to pivot to how you became you. It's one of my favorite stories. And when we were doing the story on male executives, I was really struck by some powerful similarities between some of the two dozen men at various different levels of their career and how they got started. So take us back to the dusty roads of Vallejo, if you wouldn't mind.

Born and raised in Vallejo, California, great city of Vallejo. And one time I gave a speech here in San Francisco, and the person who introduced me said that I was born in the greater Bay Area. And I got a call from the mayor of Vallejo that afternoon, and he said, don't ever say that again. You were born in Vallejo, California. So I was. I'm proud. Yeah, Vallejo, Vallejo, proud. To say I was born in Vallejo, California. I mean, I was blessed to grow up in an intact family, if you will. My mom and dad and my siblings. And my father was a carpenter and he was a minister, and he did side jobs and all of that. And he pastored a church. And my mom was. They call her homemakers at the time House. And she raised us and taught us, and she's just a wonderful person. So, been very fortunate in growing up in a family setting like that. Was always very involved in the community. A lot of that came from being a part of my father, who was very involved in the community in Vallejo and did a lot of good work, both because of his role and because of his own passion. So I had a role model that I would say that I follow some of his teaching and, you know, just the way he carried himself.

Of the 24 or so men that I interviewed for the. The piece that you starred in, the vast majority, more than 70% of them, their father was a pastor of some sort. It was just kind of this. And it has nothing to do, maybe the faith part of it, but it was sort of the leadership role that the most important man in their life played in the community. Just seemed to. Just seemed to be sort of a natural way to begin to think about something outside yourself.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was very fortunate. And I've often thought about, to your point, about how many African American leaders in our history also were ministers who've had great impact on the country and on the world. You know, Reverend Martin Luther King being obviously one great example of that. So I was fortunate. I grew up in that kind of environment. But that didn't in any way shield me from understanding that there was a difference. I mean, I remember when my father bought a new car, he didn't want to drive it to his job. He would park it well away from his job and walk the distance because he didn't want the man, as they called it then, to see that, in essence, he was prospering. And it was a fear that, you know, if he showed up a certain way, you know, that might caused his job. And so it was those kind of things that I grew up with. I'm a big fan of unions because it was the union that was the voice for my dad. And my father used to go to the carpenter's hall, and I didn't know until later that at times he went there so the family would not be worried. And he would sit there all day waiting for a job, you know, to get A call to go do a job. And so the union have always been important to me because of what they stood for during that time. And they gave my father a sense of dignity that he had someplace to go and he didn't have to sit at home. And then he was fearful that that would worry the family. So it was those kind of things that are imprints in my own mind as I've grown up and to where I'm at today.

And then your mother became ill, and that was your entree into the health care field by being a worried son.

Yeah, my mom's been ill all of my life, so I don't know exactly when in her life, but she's still a strong kicking person. She's feeble now, you know, age and everything, but still got a sharp mind. And, you know, she. That's so important to her every day. She used to talk about, you know, lord, keep me in my mind, you know, and you kind of pick up on those kind of traits. But so I've always had an intersection with the health care system. And in fact, I always wanted to be a doctor. I still do, and not too late. Yeah. And because the doctor was always there for her and the doctor was always there for us, then I assumed that everybody had that. And then I discovered that that's not the case, which led me to one of my passions, which is disparities of care and the inequity of the health care system in our country, where people are not giving, not getting equal access and equitable care as a systemic issue still in our healthcare system.

And you also experienced some bumps along the way. Would you mind telling us, is it the Richard Stein story?

Yeah, it was such a poignant story. Well, you know, it really is a story in honor of him because, as you know, he passed away from an unfortunate accident. It was the first time that I became a hospital administrator at Casa Permanente, and I moved to Santa Rosa, and Dr. Richard Stein was the medical director. And he was an older gentleman, older white gentleman. And he was my partner. And he and I started our relationship, and it was like oil and water. It was. You could not have gotten two more opposite people together in a room. And our job was to partner for the good of the organization and the community. And from day one, we just did not find a rhythm. It was really, really bad for both of us. For both of us. Not just one way. Both of us.

Yeah.

And then it got to a breaking point, and he and I, you know. You know, I talk about people having bubbles that kind of mental picture. So I had this sort of mental bubble of him and what he stood for and who he really was and all the things that comes from a historical perspective. So we were getting to this breaking point, I would say, in our relationship, and really headed down just a bad path. And one day, to his credit, he asked if we could take a walk. And so we just got up and went outside. It was a beautiful day, and we were walking along, and I was quiet and he was quiet, but we were walking. And he finally said, you know, I've tried everything and nothing has worked. And I think you feel in the same way. And he said something to the effect of, I'm going to take a risk and I'm going to tell you something, and it's going to either help us or. Or, in essence, it would be the end of this. And he went on to describe that he's never worked with a black man at this level like this before, and that he has tried so hard to build a relationship and to make something work, and it's very clear that he's, in essence, blowing it. And he proceeded to just talk about his life and his upbringing and his history. And as he was talking, he just opened my eyes up to a perspective that I had not thought about. And I give him the credit for this. And the perspective was, up until then, I was pretty clear. It was pretty black and white. You're either for us as a people or you're just racist. You just. You don't care about us, right? And all that. And what he described, in my mind, what he painted for me, was a picture of what I talk about now, which is when a person just don't have a roadmap of relating to someone. Right? And that roadmap that you're on has a set of theories and hypothesis based on some history that doesn't reflect the person who's in front of me.

Right?

And so if you play that out, the imagery of a black male in this country have been, they're locked up, they're no good, they don't take care of their families, they're drug addicts, or they're. You know what I mean? And so you have all this negative imagery of who we are as black men. It goes back to movies, it goes back to news, it goes back to what's covered. You find it. You know, people think we're all in jail, all those kind of issues. And then you have this individual like Bernard Tyson who shows up, he's qualified to run a hospital and you don't have a mental map about how to relate to that person. And he gave me that gift that day by describing what it feels like. And I've thought about that. And I use that to this day that in some cases people don't have. And I don't have a mental map to equate to what's in front of me. And that was the beginning of me becoming much more sophisticated in understanding human relations.

And you've got 200,000 plus employees and you serve 13 million more in the community as members. That's a big population to have a mental map for. How do you think about yourself as a leader that wants to have an inclusive and diverse organization as an organization, but also wants to make sure there's no actual barriers between understanding what a person needs when they walk through your doors?

Yeah, that's a great question, because this is what we do at Kaiser Permanente, I must say. And it's a wonderful organization. And I'm just saying that because I've been there for 35 years as a CEO because it's an honor for me to serve in the capacity that I serve in, you know. But. Well, before I ever got to Kaiser Permanente, Henry J. Kaiser did not discriminate in the hospitals. So when in this state we have history in which there was segregation of patients in hospital beds. We did not do that under his leadership at Kaiser Permanente. So there's a whole history that I just want to acknowledge.

A solid foundation.

A solid foundation. What we pay attention to as an organization and as a learning organization is what I call the nuances. It's the nuances that makes all the difference in the world. So we, I think, have elevated our knowledge that treating people equally is just table stakes. Right. But that's not the real issue here. It's equity. Because equal means everybody get the same. Equity means everybody get what they need. And so there's a big difference when you are oriented to equality means that if I give you one, and I give you one, I feel good because you got one and you got one. But if you're starting at C level and somebody else is starting way down below sea level one here is one there, and you're still with the same situation, which is an equity issue. And so in our organization, as we think about the nuances, that's what makes the difference in a program like Kaiser Permanente that really understands it. And what I mean by that is understanding the differences in the cultures and respecting a person for who they are. And the history of, if you will, their people and not trying to equalize everybody to some common denominator about how you're going to treat them. No, if we take care of and privilege to take care of African Americans, Right. We want to know the nuances of the African American culture. Not to say everybody is the same, but so we can bring the sensitivities to how can we provide more equitable care. And so that's why we have, for example, blood pressure checks in some of our barbershops around the country. Because in that community, that's a community setting that we can go in with credibility and teach African American men, for example, about prostate cancer testing and things that you may not be as comfortable in another environment as we are privileged to take care of our Asian Americans. We understand that that's not one group, it's made up of multiple groups. And so how do you become sophisticated and taking care of all the different makeup of that particular population? That's why we have to have a diverse workforce who's committed to speaking up on behalf of the organization and our people collectively. And so we become more sophisticated as an organization about how to care for different populations. That's when you're really focused on equity and inclusion with the foundation being equality.

How do you know? How do you make sure that all of your employees know that, that it is safe to tell you the truth? Like if they need to bring something to your attention or critique an approach? Like, how do you make sure that truth to power is not just a thing that you say?

Well, we work very hard on what we call a speak up environment. And I symbolize that by having the American flag in my office. It's in my boardroom, right in front of my table. I have it in my conference room. I write about it, I talk about it, I talk about that. In this great country we have this thing called freedom of speech. And it's a wonderful thing because you can say whatever you want to say and you're protected. At times you have to deal with the consequences of what you say, but you can say what you want to say. And I talk about why would you want to come into the four walls of Kaiser Permanente and give up your God given right in this country? And what organization would want to muffle you where you can't speak? And so we promote and talk about the speak up environment. And I tell people all the time when they come into my office or the boardroom that you have the freedom to speak what is on your mind. And I promote that with My leadership team and my leadership team, they take me on and they take me up on that. Sometimes they speak up too much, but I respect it. And it's a great way to have transparency and an authentic relationship. And so we have all kinds of avenues where people are able to speak up and speak out. And I think it's fair to say in the organization, the workforce knows that I will take it seriously and I will follow up. I've called people who would write me, for example, and I have blown them away at times with. Is this really you, Mr. Tyson? Yes, it's me. I want to learn more about this so we can get the right people working on it. And it's those kind of things that we as leaders can do that gives credibility to what we're saying and what we're asking for.

So maybe Colin Kaepernick can go to medical school. Perfectly safe at Kaiser Permanente. But I do want to join.

Good idea.

We could crowdfund it.

Yeah. Yeah.

I do want to draw your attention to what's happening today. You know, when I first met you, the first voice I heard from you was your LinkedIn post following Michael Brown's death. And it was. It's riveting because you just don't hear professional men of your stature putting your heart out that way. At least then around issues of race and how you were treated differently in the C suite than you were treated in the street. And just the image of his body for hours, which. Which now feels like a lifetime ago. How it galvanized all of us into this conversation, which turned out to be a terribly divisive and painful conversation, which only seems to have gotten more intense, in many ways, more frightening. How are you thinking about the last two and a half years in particular, where things have really gotten rough? Are you hopeful? Are we moving in the right direction? How can we begin to have more productive conversations around race in the public square?

Yeah, no, I am still hopeful. No question about it. You know, I think the Michael Brown, which was the rallying cry for me to speak out, was, I always felt, was an opportunity to really start to have the right dialogue in this country, which is how we're going to exist as people, if you will, on common ground. And the Michael Brown really stood out for me because in the midst of that tragedy, the narrative began to change.

Right.

And the narrative changed from no one should want to see a mom having to deal with her son shot down on the street to starting to describe what was he doing before and what was going on. And all of the negative imagery that people would then from their roadmaps, just draw a conclusion that, here we go again, here's another case. And so my LinkedIn story was one to attempt to say, hey, let me just tell you that I could relate, and I could have been a Michael Brown in that sense. And let me tell you how I'm treated in the C suite. And then when I put on regular clothes, let me tell you when I go down the elevator and go onto the street, how I'm treated. And then I gave a couple of examples to kind of keep it real, that this is what has happened over the last six months or so. Right. And as you know, we've talked about, I got something like a half a million responses right away. And, you know, they weren't all positive. Right, right. For sure. But it was people really sharing how they felt. And I hold to this day, right now, what we are seeing is that people are more blatant in public and now sharing what they feel. I think, though, this is that rub where it's different today than it was, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100 years ago. People are more empowered to push forward and to figure it out. And I think that's the clash that we have going on. You know, how will we accept as a country who we are and what we want to represent in the 21st century? And I think that's the tension underneath this that we are faced with and that we are dealing with. And so I remain optimistic that through the difficult times that we are going through right now as a country, we will progress as we go forward.

So we only have a couple of minutes left. So what is your best advice for leaders at any level? Since we are all empowered to weigh in on what to say and how to say it and when to choose. Not every CEO is prepared to take every risk on every issue, but there's been some extraordinary ones. The Chipberg of Levi Strauss just drew a line on guns. It was extraordinary. And he also experienced tremendous backlash. But all of us have a role to play. How do we choose our battles and how do we survive them?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's your passion that helps to guide it and your ethical compass that helps to guide it. I don't put myself out there on every issue. I mean, that's not. That's not what my board expects of me. That's not what the organization has hired me to do, is to just pick up every social call and say, we need to be out there. I think it's aligned with who we are as an organization. And what we stand for in the value system, I think, is how do we balance it against the greater society? You gave a great example on the gun issue is something our workforce feels strongly about, as do I. And we believe that the best way to contribute to this is what we're working on, which is gun prevention and safety. And so we don't want to get into the political debates about how to deal with guns as a right or not. We want to deal with, here's the effect that guns have on families and on individuals, and if we can help figure out how to prevent some of the gun violence and the safety around guns, we have made a contribution, but I think to sit silent in the 21st century, in which the narratives are moving very quickly and opinions are being formed and policy is being made to say that we can sit on an island and not speak up and speak out in the interest of stakeholders who depend on major companies across the nation. I think we're missing our obligation for the 21st century.

We gotta end it there. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you. Stay healthy, everybody.

Thank you.

Thank you.