Fireside Chat with Dara Khosrowshahi and Marc Benioff | Salesforce

All right. Good morning, everybody. How's everybody doing? Good. Are you enjoying Dreamforce? All right. Very good. How many of you have been to Dreamforce before? Raise your hands. Oh, wow. Repeat performance. Fantastic. Would you. Is this the best Dreamforce ever? How was Metallica last night? Yeah. All right. I agree. Okay. We have a great CEO here this morning in this historic theater. And please welcome Dara. Dara, come on out. Here he comes.

Thank you.

Welcome to Dreamforce.

Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Great to have you.

Come on first. Dreamforce. Yes.

That's. Cannot never before.

Yes.

Wow. What do you think so far?

So far, so good.

Anybody take an Uber to get here today? Raise your hand.

Yes. All right. I heard the ETAs this morning were not so good, so. Apologies.

How many people took the Uber autonomous helicopter here? How many people took an Uber scooter, an Uber bike?

It's coming.

An Uber drone? It's all coming. Everything's coming. So everything is coming. And all this amazing technology is coming. You're a huge visionary on the future of transportation. You've opened incredible doors. And you and I started to have a conversation. We've had many conversations, but you and I had a very powerful conversation at the World Economic Forum in Davos in January. And it was very much linked to a conversation that I had on this stage with your founder, who was the CEO of Uber, who's no longer the CEO of Uber anymore. And I asked him, right here, as part of this Q and A, I said, does Uber have a heart? And I think that's actually where the conversation ended. Hopefully this one starts, and that's where this one is going to start. Because I know you have a new vision for Uber, a new set of values for Uber. You see Uber in a completely new and different way. And I think it's great if you could just introduce to everybody, you know, what do you want for Uber? What is truly important to you?

Sure. Absolutely. We have a heart. And actually, if anything, we want the heart to play a bigger role in the decisions that we're making every day, every week, every month across the company. One of the things that I didn't expect when I joined the company and it really led me to want to take this position, was that when I spoke to the employees of the company, there's a real sense of mission about the company. This combination of creating opportunity for millions of driver partners. And when, for example, your payment system breaks down and a driver partner emails you and says, I need my money in order to feed My family tonight, what's going on? It really hits home that while we're a digital company, we connect to people in cities in a fundamental and physical way. And the physical world, it's a much more messy world to organize. But also what you're doing every day, the decisions that you make have fundamental effects on people and how they live every day in their city, where are they getting to, how do they get paid, can they make a living, et cetera. So I do think that as a company, you obviously have to make decisions, logical decisions, use your head. But it's really when the head and the heart come together, and it's when those two are in alignment, when the magic happens. And for us, the ability to bring opportunity to millions of people and mobility and go and go just beyond cars. But think about mobility as a service to hundreds of millions and hopefully soon billions of people all around the world. It's incredible because ultimately, mobility is, to me, freedom. Freedom to choose, what to do, to go take on a challenge, etc. And you see that with our new brand campaign, which is there's something special about a service that gives people the freedom to go from one place to the other and people who may not live in the center of the city and someone who may not be able.

To afford a car.

So there's a magic about this company that we're trying to bring back. It's been a year, but I think it helps when what you're doing is fundamentally good for the cities in which you operate.

Well, this is a huge vision you have. Mobility as a service for billions of people. Right. I mean, that's a powerful statement that you just made. You said that Uber is going to be about the mobility as a service for billions of people. But you said something else. You said then, it's about freedom. But I know you very well, Dara. Okay. And I will ask you, and We've been asking CEOs this all week here, what is the most important thing then, about mobility as a service for billions of people? What is the most important thing? I know it's not freedom. Is it trust?

I think it is.

Is it safety? What is the most important thing to Uber today?

So safety for us is the number one priority for the company this year. And I think it goes to the way that we think about safety goes to a lot of challenges that platform technology, platform companies are having. And listen, we're building this mobility platform and we've got driver partners and we've got riders who use it. So to some extent, you can say, well, there are good people and bad people in the world, and they'll be continue to be good people and bad people in the world. And if they do something good or bad in a car, it's not our fault. Right? It's just stuff happens. Right? But I think that technology companies nowadays are learning that that's just not good enough. And if we are building out this mobility platform, and for us it is going beyond cars and it'll go to scooters and bikes and pool and flying taxis one day, we should do everything that we can in order to guarantee. And by the way, you can't guarantee, but in order to optimize a platform so that it can be as safe as possible. So, for example, now when you use your uber, you have 411 integration, and we can give the information about where, where you are to, sorry, 91 1. Just in case something happens. You've got, we've got a toolset, safety toolset, where you can share your ride with your loved one so they know that you get home. We're using technology like telematics to let the driver partner know, hey, you're driving too fast. And by the way, driving fast hurts your ratings. So it's in your interest to slow down. And we can identify sudden stops. Could there be a crash? We can reach out to you to check what happened. If you're on a route and the route should take 20 minutes and it's taking 40 minutes, what's going on, we can reach out to you. So there's a lot of technologies that we're putting in place to make sure that we go above and beyond. We're building a mobility platform, but we want to make sure that platform is as safe as possible. The second element that I'd say is incredibly important for us is access, is that we, you know, we are in these cities and operating the cities as a guest of the cities, right? There's demand for our services, etc. And what we never want to do is skim off the top. So we are never going to just operate in the center of cities. Taxicabs tend to kind of be in the city centers where there are a lot of business people or a lot of tourists, et cetera. We want to operate everywhere in the city. So, for example, if you look at New York City, where I just came from, 50% of our rides either originate or end outside the borough of Manhattan. So we want to make sure that often our services are needed the most in areas where mass transit is not available, or if it's available, it runs at a much lower rate and. Or you've got people who can't own cars. So I'd say safety, accessibility, and that means both price, but it means geographically are incredibly important. And then for us, third is just innovation. Keep innovating on this platform, keep pushing yourself, keep challenging to build out this kind of. I call it the mobility cloud to some extent, for the cities of the future.

Mobility cloud, safety, access, innovation, freedom. One of the major issues that appeared when Travis was running the company is when Susan Collins wrote a discussion about that the company had a toxic culture for women and that equality was not a priority and it wasn't clear that gender equality was a priority for the company. Is equality important? And is gender equality and all aspects of equality, where is that in your hierarchy as you go through the things that are really important to you? Like you just went through safety and access and innovation and freedom. Where's equality?

Well, we are, I'd say, as I think about my second year, I've been at the job for about a year, the making sure that we culturally build a company that can truly be proud of, not only in terms of our external position and view of the world or how the world perceives us, but. But internally. That I think is gonna be job number one for me internally. And I think we've done a really good job externally saying we do the right thing, this is the new uber, et cetera. But I think, you know as well, the work on culture internally is like really, really, really hard. And we've to some extent, I've been so busy kind of fighting the external battles and bringing a team together, getting a management team. I don't think I've done quite enough internally looking at culture and diversity in all aspects of the company, at all levels of the company. We've put forward cultural norms, we celebrate differences, we do the right thing as a company, we act like owners. But it's one thing to say them and then it's another thing to make sure that it is infused in every single thing that you do as a company, every decision you make, every promotion you bring forward. So diversity and culture for me are very much go hand in hand. And it's both gender diversity, but it's also diversity relating to underrepresented people of color. And we are making progress for the first time now. We have tools on how we measure promotions. I think we've done a great job on the recruiting side, making sure that we're recruiting a more diverse workforce than ever. But it's also about retention. And for me, my passion is about development. Development. And you have to have all three of those in place in order to have a truly diverse, inclusive workplace where everybody can succeed. And I think we've gone the recruiting to a decent place and I think development and retention is job number two. And it's not my job, it's not just my job, but it's a job of all of the leadership of the company. And that is really, I'd say, a huge, huge priority for me. Year two as CEO.

So. So when we look at things that are important to you, like you have gone through now, safety, access, innovation, freedom, diversity, inclusion, equality. When you think about your drivers all over the world, you've become a huge part of their income streams. Do you think about, are they making enough to, do you think about healthcare for them? How do we think about that type of workforce that's operating in kind of the gig economy? Maybe they're working for you, maybe they have a full time job as well. They're somehow filling in these pieces. How does your community, all the people around you, that's really an incredible part of Uber because I actually know very few Uber employees, but I know a lot of Uber drivers and so they're my representative of Uber. How do you think about that and making sure that they're taken care of and that they're part of your family?

They are. And our drivers more than anything are the face of Uber. You know, you use our app just at the beginning and the end of trip, but you're actually spending much more time with our driver partners. And, and every time I go to different cities and you know, my second day on the job, I had a forum where I met with a bunch of driver partners. They know more about our service. It's extraordinary how much they know about the service. They're entrepreneurs. They, they, they are micro entrepreneurs who really are running a business that's using our platform. And I think we, we've always called them partners, but we haven't treated them as partners in the past. Last year we, we put forward a program called 180 Days of Change. Where we started, we listened to what our driver partners were asking for and we started shipping features that were specifically requested by them. We had historically been, you know, if the consumer, if we just optimize for the consumer, the demand will come and then if the demand comes, there's money in it for driver partners. So everything will be fine. Now we have a very robust driver, driver product team, technology team, et cetera. We Introduce tipping, for example, we introduce paid wait times. These are features that our driver partners have been asking for for a very long time. We recently relaunched our new driver app, we call it Carbon. It's kind of the internal lexicon for it. But we built that app specifically with driver partners from day one. So big beta test, et cetera. And so we as a company now are developing our product much more in line with both the needs of our driver partners and obviously the needs of our riders as well. One thing to keep in mind is that the, the our driver partners and what they look like varies hugely from place to place. So for example, in the U.S. 50% of our driver partners are work for 10 hours or less in the U.S. it's a part time gig. You need to make some extra money, et cetera, for a big, big portion of our driver partners. While in India, for example, a much, much higher percentage of our job or partners are full time. It's a job. This is what they're doing, this is how they make their living. And by the way, they make a really, really good living and they can provide for their family. It's a very respected job as well. I think there are a couple of issues that frankly we're struggling with and I don't have the perfect answer here. All right, one is that should we be artificially restricting the number of driver partners in a market? Okay, because if you restrict the number of driver partners in a market, then each driver partner is going to make more. And that sounds good, but then essentially you're reintroducing the medallion system where if you're lucky enough, you get to make money, you know, for this company. But if you're not lucky enough to get, you know, it'll be e medallion. If you're not lucky enough, then you can't. So so far we have elected saying, hey, ultimately this is an app that anyone should use. We shouldn't kind of be deciding who gets to use it, who doesn't. There are quality metrics in place. So if your rating is below X effect or you have issues, the background check doesn't go through, then you can't drive because that's not safe. But we shouldn't be kind of building yet another medallion product as well. And ultimately the economics, if this isn't something attractive for someone to do, then we're going to have trouble finding driver partners. And one of the really, really, really important things about our platform is the freedom that affords driver partners. You can come in or you can go out. This is not Necessarily a full time job. You can make it if you want to. The second issue that we are thinking about more and more is benefits, health benefits. There's in most societies around the world, there are the haves who are full time employees and there are the have nots who aren't right. And if you're not a full time employee, you don't get benefits, you don't get retirement, you don't, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that society is changing. Where you used to go to a company and you trusted your whole career with a company, you're an IBMer, et cetera. Now people are moving around more obviously sometimes it's not a good thing for you and me, but they get to. You don't get married to a company. And I think more and more going forward, work is going to be about work. It's not necessarily. You may, there may be like an awesome project that someone wants to work for you and then like should they be able to do an awesome project for us? Why do they have to get married with you or me in order to have benefits, in order to have a retirement, et cetera. The laws of our land make it so that the more you are offering our driver partners, et cetera, as far as healthcare, etc. They start looking more like full time workers, which then creates a bunch more overhead and a much more expensive product which then reduces the demand for that product. But I think we really have to think about benefits for temporary workers where essentially the benefits are mobile and you still get paid these benefits or have the benefits regardless of if you're moving job to job. We have that program in place in the EU now. So for example, in the eu this is something that Macron was passionate about and we had discussion about it and we launch it all across the eu. You got maternity benefits, paternity benefits, accident coverage, et cetera. But I would like to come up with a system where we can provide benefits with our driver partners if it's something that can work inside the ecosystem. Right now, the. It's delicate, going.

Well. I know like for example in my own personal relationship with Uber now over so many years is that I have my own favorite driver. He happens to live in my area. He's from Mongolia, he's an immigrant.

Are you going around the system? Do you call him directly? Are you cheating?

No, that's gonna be. But I'm getting to an idea for you. But I kind of have like a hope because I really actually enjoy when I get to talk, talk to him and I like to hear about his life and what's going on and his experiences in the neighborhood and what he sees happening in our city and all of these things. And I just have a good relationship and I don't know, maybe about 10% of my trips are with him. But I'd love to be able to hit a button that said, I really would. I'll wait another five minutes and I might pay a premium to make sure that I'm getting this driver. Does that are a common request?

It is a common request and it's along the same lines as a request. For example, for scheduled rides. You remember probably three, four years ago you can get a scheduled rides, but now we're actually working to create a much more scheduled ride product. Getting in there, the airport type of experience is something that we're optimizing because it can be much, much better. But being able to pick a driver partner I think is super, super cool. And it is on the list. I can't promise at any time, but I think it's a very, very interesting concept because ultimately these are. While we are a tech company, etcetera, we are promoting human relationships and we are promoting a human service. And it's a product that I've thought a lot about.

You said your driver app is carb, called carbon Internally and obviously the combustion engine. We just had a whole discussion with Al Gore over the last hour about carbon, about SO2 emissions. What's going on in terms of the environment and the movement from cars from gas powered engines to electric engines. What's your vision for that? How do you green your driver's cars? How do you help? We've seen the movement from China and India have both said that by, you know, it's relatively short order, they're going to mandate that all cars in their countries are electric. I hope that our government gets the same enlightenment here as well. Will you do that? Will you become your own authority and say that we're going to encourage you to move to an electric vehicle? We're going to focus on carbon and sustainability in the environment as a major issue inside Uber. Will that be one of your core values?

I think the key to what you're saying is encourage, right? It's one of the very, very important precepts for our services. We want to be available for anyone, right? This is. We want to be there if you need us. Again, if you're not providing good service, you won't. But we are absolutely looking at programs where we will help drive our partners. And for example, London is an area that we're looking at help driver partners, maybe finance hybrid or electric vehicles to move in that direction. And I think just as importantly, the other two areas that we're looking at acting on is first of all, we want people to share cars. So for you to as an individual have a ride and have a driver drive you and have a 2,000 pound piece of metal move you from place to place in the city is very, very inefficient. So we're making substantial investments in pool technology, not only in cutting prices to get more people to use pool. Who uses pool in the audience? I'm curious as to. Wow. SF is one of our. That's awesome. They use pool. SF is one of our top markets for pool. But we've taken pool to the next level where we have a product now called Express Pool that gets you to walk a couple of blocks before you pull. It may get you to wait a bit before you pull and it may drop you off a couple of blocks from where you want to go. That allows much more efficient matching of people in a car, which is terrific. And then we're now introducing, we have E bikes here, Jump bikes, which are pretty awesome. We are, we have a deal with lime in terms of bikes and E scooters, but I think that we are at the, a lot of them in the. Yeah, they're pretty amazing. We're right at the beginning of a revolution as it relates to individual electric transportation. And you know, we have to as a company be willing to some extent to compete with ourselves here. Where we've seen, for example, Uber users who also use jump is available on the app and we now have kind of a switcher, a mode switcher where you can switch, switch between cars and bikes. Uber users who also use jump bikes, they're using cars less. So they use cars 10% less. Why does that make sense for us? Well, they're actually the engagement with overall app is up 15% and during rush hour they actually use Ubers 15% less. So they're diverting to using bikes more. And during rush hour, for a trip that is under three miles, it doesn't make sense to take a car. And by the way, it's not good for a driver partner is the driver partner hates the two mile trip, you know, during rush hour, wants a trip to the airport, et cetera. So you can actually optimize your network. You can optimize your network in a way that helps the city traffic and you are saving the environment as well.

When you think about Sustainability and equality. I mean, we talked about, like, you know, the ability to, like, support my driver. You now let the driver have a tip. You're increasing the compensation of the driver. You're looking at, how do you get benefits to the driver. You're addressing some of these comments that have been made by Susan Burrow and others about fundamentally improving the welfare of the driver. When we talk about the environment, you do a lot of amazing things with pool, which I love. And then you also have. You can choose an X, or you can choose a black, or you can choose an suv. Have you thought about extending that option? I want only electric vehicles, or I only want hybrid vehicles, or I'm willing to pay more if you pick me up in an electric car.

Yeah, that's. It's interesting, actually. We've launched a pilot in Germany, in Berlin and a couple of other cities called Uber Green. And this is essentially, are you willing to have a higher eta? We don't charge you a premium for green, but people. We're seeing that people are willing to wait two or three minutes more in order to get a green car. And we're going to see the patterns there. And if that's a pattern that can be replicated on a global basis, we actually will any of those attempts. The conflicting kind of issues that we're fighting is ETA is magic, right? You want as short an ETA for your product as possible. The more you fragment your marketplace, hey, I only want a green car, I only want a black car, et cetera. Then the longer ETAs you're potentially creating. So there's always a conflict between choice and eta. But sometimes, going back to the beginning of our conversations, you have to make a decision with your head and the heart, right? So we're making some of these bets as it relates in certain cities. See if it works, see if the marketplace stays liquid, see if our driver partners are on board, and then it's something that we can then launch on a global basis.

Well, you're painting a huge vision of mobility as a service for billions of people. You've kind of addressed a huge. And I'd articulate in a huge vision for safety, for access, for innovation. You also, you know, we touched on the importance as well of then what does that look like for equality, for diversity, for inclusion, for sustainability? I mean, as the CEO of a major company that's also incredibly fast growing, all of these things are on your mind all the time. Everything is important. Nothing is important. So if you were to say which of those two or three things are really like your priorities for the next six months or the next year. What are the three things that are really like, you know, in your claw right now?

I'd say that team and culture are number one. Right. I think, you know, you've got incredible, talented people working with you, getting the team right. And then the culture inured within the whole company is. That's table stakes. So that is. I finally feel like I have a full team around me. I got a CFO just a couple of weeks ago. You know, we've been building the team and sometimes when you're. You get into an incredibly busy situation, like I did, you're fighting battles and you don't have time to kind of go out there and recruit and find.

The right person who came in during a crisis.

I did. I did.

Yeah. And you're. You're already the successful of a CEO of a hugely successful company, doing fantastic, you know, in another city completely, Right?

Yes.

They recruited you. I don't even know, you know, in the Pacific Northwest, basically almost another country. Then you're recruited by the venture capitalists and others who are trying to save the company. They find you, you have your whole family, everybody's. You have to tell them we're leaving. You know, the beautiful, you know, Green City mountains.

Yeah.

And you're going to move down to San Francisco and you're going to come here and. And you're gonna save this company and probably sacrificed a lot of family time over the last year because it's been a nightmare probably coming into this. Right. I mean, it's.

Have you been speaking to my wife?

Well, maybe once or twice, but then, you know, of course, your family's had to have sacrifice. You've had to sacrifice, but you're sacrificing to save the company. Now the company's starting to stabilize. You're getting your values together, you're getting your vision together. You're looking at how to make it stronger, better, and use Uber for a force for good. Kind of getting back to making sure that Uber really does have a heart.

Yes.

So this is a bigger, stronger, greater Uber than ever. What about you? How are you doing through all this? What's your personal story?

You didn't tell me you were going to ask that. No, it's fun. Listen, for me, I was in a great situation at Expedia. I love what I did, but I always advise people. I think people solve too much about what they're going to do. And for me, I always tell the young folks, solve for three things. One, are you Going to work with people whom you like and you respect and you can learn from. So the people. Number two is go to a place where the work you do as an individual can make a difference. I. I can make a difference at this company. And then third is go to a place that's making a difference. And I can't think of another company and another opportunity where I, as an individual could make a difference at a company that's truly making a difference in the world. So at first when I was contacted by the role, I'm like, no effing way. But then I was like, I gotta do this. I spoke with my wife, Sid, and she said, you know, go for it. Like, this is. This kind of calling doesn't come. You're in a position to take a risk in your life, you know, go for it. And here I am. And, you know, it's. You never get into these situations thinking that it's going to be easy. But I've learned more in the past year than I learned in kind of my past five years. It's been an amazing experience. And what I love is succeeding as a team, like getting a group together who you trust that knows that they're doing something great and building something great. And, you know, sometimes. And you have plenty of bad days, but you know that what you're doing matters and you know that what you're doing is special. So I think that kind of helps me power through the bad days. But there are more good days than bad days nowadays, so I'm loving it.

What is your biggest surprise so far doing this job?

Biggest surprise is something that shouldn't be a surprise, but you're used to this. I knew that I was getting into a public position. I knew that there would be press, glare, etc. You just never know until you know. So it was absolutely something that. That's expected. But until you're in the middle of all this, you don't know what it's like. And. And I'm trying to follow this precept that my dad just told me is just be yourself. Don't pretend to be someone else. Just be yourself. And either they'll like you or they won't. But if you're spending too much time pretending, at some point, one, it's going to suck. But two, your facade will fall and someone will. So he's like, just be yourself. And that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, like, there is no public private now. Right? It's all the same. I think transparency I Know, you've talked about transparency as being something core, a company that, that, that really speaks to, speaks to truth. Right? And trust. And, and I think that's just how we're working. And, and, and either they'll like you or they won't. And life is simple that way.

Well, now you've also been transplanted not just into this company, not just all the way from Seattle, but you're in San Francisco, you're in the Silicon Valley. And you can see we have a whole set of issues, not just kind of what you saw with your own company and where the, you know, basically they had to find you to save the company. But when you look now at some of the issues with our industry and things that they call the tech lashes, things that are going on, we have a company where the company's working on weapons using artificial intelligence, but they forgot to tell the employees who are working on it that that's what they were actually working on. Or there is another company where the executives are incongruent with the values of the management team. And so the executives walked out. These are kind of unprecedented things. Employees walking out, executives walking out. You know, you saw it before you got there, the Delete Uber phenomenon, customers walking out. You know, what is your reflection of that, of what's happening right now in our industry? And what is your advice to CEOs because you're a new CEO now. You're a, you're a savior CEO. You have come in to save this company, and you are. So as that position, what is your advice to people like me who have been around for 20 years? How are you going to save me and all the other CEOs who are, you know, looking at their companies deeply, looking at what these new values are? What should we be doing as a community in Silicon Valley is still an outsider, you know, what is your prescription for San Francisco and Silicon Valley CEOs after that intro?

I have no idea. No, listen, you've been at it longer than I have, and I guess I would go back to a cultural norm that we have that has resonated the best in the halls. It's just do the right thing. And usually we have a bunch of cultural norms and then we explain what they mean. And ours is do the right thing, period. And the thing is, you know, we can't prescribe exactly what that means to me. Usually, like, I know I'm making good decision, actually, it goes exactly what you said. When the logical mind and the heart agree, usually when the two don't agree, it's like your heart's telling you something, this thing's going to work, but there's something wrong. And then usually when I do something just from the heart, it can, it can move into gambling territory because the logic is in there. I just kind of want to do it. And I think you and I are like, we're fallible. We're gonna make mistakes. And I think as long as you're coming from a true place and you're transparent and you're just trying to do the right thing day to day to day, then you'll get it right more than not. And then admit your mistakes and learn and change. And we have made our share of mistakes, but that's okay as long as you face those mistakes, you don't try to hide and you learn and then get better like you're.

My job is to get better Happening with other Silicon Valley CEOs or do you think some of them are stuck? Or do you think that is happening and we're not seeing it yet? What level of faith do you have in kind of the people that you met? Because now you've done a tour de force through the whole Valley. You've met everybody you've seen inside these companies. You're picking the best of all of the value systems and of the, the traits, and you're leaving the worst behind. So if you're giving that prescription, you know, in terms of be yourself. But some of them do need to shift. So if they're not shifting, why do you think that is and what do you think they do need to do to shift?

I now, yeah, I think, I think we're going through a really painful process. My honest assessment of the other Silicon Valley CEOs is, is I don't know them that well yet, so I don't know. I think I know you and you've been kind of a clarion. Your call had come before its time, and now a lot of it is happening based on some of the observations that you've had. And I think we're going through a really, really, really painful process where CEOs are going to have to be more transparent, where they're going to have to use different tool sets that they're not used to. And some are going to make the adjustment and some aren't. And I think in some ways maybe there's an over correction in some areas, but I think that's a good thing. I'd rather. Usually when you have a system, it goes here, there's a correction here, and then it kind of moves here, and then you kind of get to the right spot. So sometimes you'll see circumstances where, oh, my God, that's an overreaction that went too far. This is just the system snapping to where it should be. And the new equilibrium, I think, is better than the old equilibrium. But there's going to be some pain along the way, and there's going to be some learning along the way, and, you know, we'll muddle our way through it.

So if we were to go in a time machine, okay, back, you know, I think it's three, four, five years ago to this stage, and we were talking to the previous CEO of Uber, and then we went backstage, and somehow we were back there with him. What's the one thing you would whisper in his ear that he needed to know right then, several years ago about his future? What could you say to him? Like, if we went back in time, what would you say? You know what I mean? Like, it's 2018, but if. Let's say we were back. I can't remember when it was. People in the audience probably know 2014 or 13, they were probably here. What would you say to the previous CEO? Because maybe that's the message everyone else needs to hear.

The message that I would give him is something that I really learned from Barry Diller, my old boss, is listen to what you don't want to hear. Barry, we've known each other for years and years and years, and he has a lot of superpowers, but one of his superpowers is if you went into a room and you're passionate, and you proved him wrong, you pushed him and pushed him. You're wrong about this, et cetera. His eyes will light up. He will love it. And the thing is that especially he's amazing. And as you move up, if there's one universal law of moving up in the world is the higher up you get, the less you really know what's going on at a company, because you start getting measures that are protective. Your schedule is scheduled. If anyone wants to talk to you, they have to get approval through your executive assistant, who talks to your assistant and the assistant's assistant. You know, like, it's just. There's a. And there's an interest in all of this framework that's built around you to. Yeah. And so, Barry, the two things that I saw with him were, one was he loved the truth. His ego was in. The truth was not in being right. He had no ego about being right. And by the way, when you get to the Truth, then you get. Right, right. And then the second was he hated editorial. He always wanted to hear it from the source. So if it was four levels down, a junior employee is like, get that person in the room. For me, person was really scared. But Barry wanted to hear from the source because you lose fidelity when you move up in an organization. And everything that you and I, and hopefully it's not, but we get, it's presented. It's a beautiful PowerPoint and this and that. So I think the advice is, you know, success imprints really strongly. You think, you know, when. When something fails, you're like, oh, it was an environment or it was this person's fault. When you succeed and Travis was succeeding and succeeding, succeeding, you think that you stop. And I'm not saying that that was his case, but. But. But the trap is stopping to listen or stop listening. And I think with Barry, with all of his successes in his life, he always listened. He was always looking for the truth, and he was always looking for fidelity. What was really going on?

You know, it's funny, I had a conversation with Ray Dalio yesterday, and he did an amazing presentation today, and he talks about that in his book Principles Radical Open Mindedness. Right? That you have to cultivate the ability to deeply listen to yourself and to others. That is really listen. What is really going on right now in the present moment, that clearing your mind of all of those distractions and being able to come back to yourself and to others. This is very, very powerful. To be able to do that, to let go of your anxieties and your fears and your stresses and your guilts and all of the worries of the day to say, yes, here I am, I'm here now. What do I really need to know right now? Where is the truth? Where is the peace and the love and everything good in my heart? And what can I do right now to make the world better in myself, in my company or in my family or in my community? And when I think about that, I think about that. The most important thing is to cultivate a beginner's mind. Because, you know, in the beginner's mind, in the beginner's mind, the world is full of every possibility. But in the expert's mind, there's very few possibilities. And in fact, that's why we have these monastics outside, you know, running a mindfulness zone, because they're the masters of, you know, they don't care. They want to get in the present moment now, and that's all they've dedicated their whole life to doing that. So that's why I think in today's world, where we're on email all the time, on social media all the time, and we can see that now because Apple's got its new screen time mode. So we're all like, now it's. We're all going to know exactly how screwed up we are. And, you know, but the monastics say, turn off and come back and let go and disconnect and clear your mind and realize that you have now every possibility in front of you. And if you're in a meeting, you have to be able to get to that point. I know it's a huge struggle for me personally, because of course I'm going to get tempted. I've got the Temptation Machine, I call it. It's right here and it's even has very shiny. It's trying to get my.

It's very blingy, that thing.

Yeah.

That's impressive.

It's trying to get my. Well, because it's trying to get my attention. Look at me, I'm purple.

It matches your shirt. That's impressive, isn't it?

Matches your shirt. That means you can start using me right now. And then I'm like, no, no, go back in the pocket. Temptation Machine. Let me come back to the present moment, come back to my breath. So it's such a powerful message. Anyway, Dara, thank you for being here and thank you for being the CEO of Uber. Thank you for saving this company. Well done. Congratulations. Great job. Please thank this great CEO, Dara.