Fireside Chat with Marco Bizzarri and Marc Benioff | Salesforce

Okay. All right. How are you all doing? Is everybody having a good day? Have you been over to trailhead land in Moscone west yet? Yeah. Is that cool? All right. Not really. So. So what about the trade show is good. What's been your highlight so far?

Your shoes.

The shoes. I'm gonna tell you about the shoes. I just got the shoes as a gift. Anyway, please meet my friend, Marco Bazzari, CEO of Gucci. Welcome.

Thank you.

Have a seat here. So happy to have you.

Thank you.

And thank you for these shoes.

It's a pleasure. Because after the amazing advertising campaign for Louis Vuitton this morning.

Yes.

I went to your offices yesterday, and I saw your team working on Gucci for next year, so thank you.

Well, we would love to have Gucci. Now, let me just express to you the demand. Now. You can see that these gorgeous shoes, the clouds and the colors. There's high top version and low top. I had to choose which one I wanted. They've got the Gucci stripe on them. Okay. Now, how many people here would like a pair of these shoes? Raise your hand.

Union Square.

Do you want to give out your email address now?

Absolutely. No problem.

Okay, so let me ask you, Marco, this is your first time at Dreamforce?

Yes.

And we're so happy to have you here. So do you have any reflection so far of what why you came to Dreamforce? What you're excited about? You know, what I know about you, Marco, is that you know you're an amazing leader in your industry. You have worked for these Incredible brands. Stella McCartney and Bottega Veneta and now Gucci, all within the Kering Group. Before that, you were at Accenture for many years.

Nobody's perfect.

Probably have some Accenture people here, so we have to be careful.

I know. That's why.

Anybody here work for Accenture?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I told. We have an Accenture person here. So. And you know. So, Marco, you've seen a lot also, by the way. I just noticed. I'm like, why is he wearing my shoes? They say MB on them, so that's exactly. Were these your shoes? I'm like, oh, he gave me the customized. My initials, but maybe you're. Do you wear. Have 14s too?

14?

Is that your size also?

Absolutely.

Oh, great. Well, we're going to be good friends.

Exactly.

How tall are you, by the way?

Six seven.

Six seven. Are your. My father was six seven, so I'm six five. What's a good coincidence? All right, Marco, you're from Italy.

Yep.

And where were you Born in Italy.

I was born close to Modena, to Maranello, where the Ferrari Lamborghini fast cars are built. And we are Massimo Bottura, your friend, as the restaurant.

Yes, yes, yeah. Yes. So you were born near Moderna or in Moderna?

In between. Modena Regiomiglia. Yes, And I study Moderna. Yes.

Yeah. And yeah. Massimo Boturo has built an amazing restaurant. But you think it might be not open too much longer? Should I get over there quickly before he closes it?

I don't know. Massimo. We have been in their school together for five years, same desk. So he's one of my best friend. We opened a restaurant together actually in Florence. We just got the first Michelin star. Two with.

Wow. So you've also in the restaurant business?

No, with Gucci.

With Gucci. Oh, all right.

Yeah. Right. So, yeah. So Massimo, I don't know what he's gonna do, but it's very much now in the charity and the Food for Soul and all these initiatives that's quite important.

But we know Massimo at Salesforce mostly because we work with the artist JR and we've built a restaurant for the homeless in Paris.

Yes.

So it's an unusual restaurant because it's in the basement of a church. And then at night, all of the most famous chefs from all over Paris bring all of their food and they serve all the homeless of Paris. And it's so amazing idea.

Impressive, impressive, impressive, impressive.

Yeah. And did that come out? Did you see? Isn't that amazing? You can give that a round of applause. Yeah. We'll send some good thoughts back to Massimo Boturo. And then also a lot of good things come out of Italy, including you mentioned Lamborghini and so forth, these amazing cars. And has that been in your background as well?

Listen, I'm very, very privileged for many reasons. The first one, because I mean, working in this industry, that is impressive. I'm surrounded by so many creative talents, both in design and in business. And we are very, very lucky because being born in Italy, from all this history and now I headquarters in Florence. And Florence has been built in terms of art and beauty, mostly by de Medici. Lorenzo de Medici. Lorenzo magnificent in the past. And this kind of history cannot be replicated in any way. Just to tell you a date, Lorenzo de Medici died in 1492. That is the same year when America was discovered. So we have this kind of roots, this kind of family, generations that went through years after years. That's the reason why I really believe that in Italy there's no other possibility that being surrounded by beauty and creating beauty, being exposed by beauty. And I think this is the reason why in the most cases, even other companies from the luxury business, they produce in Italy, because this kind of network and capabilities and small families are working from generation to generation on this kind of activities cannot be replicated anywhere in the world. And I think being in fashion, being in this industry, we have this possibility really to have this kind of freedom of expression and anticipating trends. And I think going back to the question that you asked me, why Amea and Dreamforce? Because we really believe that blending technology, a human touch and this kind of personal one to one is going to be the differentiating factor for us, for our positioning, because we are not in fast fashion. In fast fashion, you can just rely on data. In our business, you need to rely on people. And blending the two together and using technology not just as a tool but as a form of expression, I think really can make a difference for us. Otherwise, if we just use the technology, it's going to be a commodity and we cannot be differentiated from anybody else. Why, for us, differentiation is more important than anything else.

Well, that's an amazing story. So let me just ask you a couple things about that, if that's all right, because I think I mentioned to you for the last few years we've had also Brunello Cucinelli here and there's also been a very similar thread that there's a power of kind of the culture of Italy. And I, you know, you must have also wanted to influence me because you gave me a copy of Dante's Inferno with the shoes. Right. So there's a message in here as well. But also when Brunello was here, he made a lot of these very similar points, that it's really the depth of the values and the culture of the country and then how that gets expressed forward and that we have to think about humanity, especially in regards to how technology is changing and especially associated with these brands. Is that the right way to think about it?

I think it's the only way. It's not an option. I mean, especially in our business, in our industry, creativity is at the center of everything. And if creativity is at the center of everything, the best way to foster it is to create a kind of an ambience in the company, close to the company, that give the possibility to use these creative talents to express themselves with freedom. And in order to do so, I don't see any other way than creating a kind of ambience, of joy, of belonging, to happiness, respect for people or environment. Freedom of expression and really design what you want to do and creating an ambience where if you make a mistake, you're not killed. Because in the business we do, we take risks, we try to change aesthetic. We need to define or decide what is going to happen in 18, 24 months from now in terms of consumer behavior and data today are not able to give us this information. So we need to rely on people, on this talent that had been built their experience in years. Alessandro Michele, our creative director, is an amazing talent that he thought about problem with diversity from all his career, from the very beginning of his life. So it's the first example where if you are able to encompass include everybody in the company with your values in the right way. Because diversity can be a strength in creative process. Very much so, as long as you're able to include them, not to try to clone these people in order to make sure that they become as you. So if you're able to create this kind of environment that creativity fosters and of course this kind of work, putting values at the center, as you did not rhetorically, you really inspired me in order to create this kind of values. But on the other side, I really believe that as leaders, the value that you put in the company should be your values. Otherwise they're going to last for two months, three months, six months. It's like when you do an interview, you try to be great or different to the person interviewing you. You can last, you can cheat someone for one hour, by two weeks, you're going to be yourself. So in order to make sure that the values that you put in a company can have an impact, they need to be your personal values as well. So that's the reason why I chose Alessandro Michele as creative director. Because he's certainly talented person, but first and foremost he's a good man.

So is authenticity your highest value?

You know, authenticity and empathy, the two of them. Because I mean, you need to be authentic, but you also need to create this kind of strength and kind of speed and energy in the company, which.

Is higher for you, the two between the two.

No, authenticity and empathy and logic are part of trust at the end, wherever you put it. And see, trust is one of the value that you support. So whatever you turn it around, it can be one or the other according to the moment, but they all part of the same value, that is trust.

So trust, authenticity, empathy, logic, logic, respect, respect.

And freedom. I think self expression in our industry, and I think as well for our life is very, very key.

How are you operationalizing your values into your company. When you look at those values, like you just talked about authenticity, empathy, respect, creativity, freedom of expression, how do you operationalize those? What kind of things are you doing as a leader to bring those values into your organization?

Well, listen, you need to lead by example. I mean, you can talk, you can send statement, you can send email, you can do whatever you like, but if you don't do that on a daily basis, it's not going to work. So just to give you some example, because, I mean, it's very difficult to. To create just a framework on that. When I joined Gucci at the very beginning, we did this complete turnaround of the company from an aesthetic standpoint, from a business standpoint, the first reaction that we had from everybody was, especially from competition, everybody was, let's say, criticizing the change of aesthetic. Everybody. I mean, I stopped to watch Instagram for three weeks and everybody was saying, especially competitors were saying, you know, such a beautiful brand, what they did to this brand after one year, they said, after seeing the first results, yeah, it's not going to last. After three years, when the company was growing 40% every year, they said, now we have a problem. So in order to make sure that at the beginning of this turnaround, because at the beginning of this change, all my people, the 10,000 people that at that time were in Gucci, were able to understand why we wanted to change and how we are going to change it, I needed to talk to them. So I traveled everywhere in the world. I stayed away for three months. I shook hands with at least 3,000 people and explained the reason why we wanted to make this change. That came from necessity because the company was not doing particularly well. But also it was a way to really change the kind of culture that we wanted to have in the company. And internal communication at that time, in the first 12 months was more important than external communication. Because all the changes that we did in the first show, in the first two shows with Alessandro, the product were not going to reach the shop for 912 months. So we were talking a lot, but no substance was reaching the shop. So communication, direct communication, empathy, telling the truth in terms of authenticity, but the way in which I was able to keep the talent in the company, that was for me, the first objective. I didn't want the people that were in Gucci to leave the company because that was possible. And all the executive team that I had at that time is still there now.

Oh, your entire executive team is built.

In place and time. They don't leave.

But you have Radically. You have radically increased the performance of the company. You've doubled the company size since you've been there and you've become the fastest growing of all of the high fashion brands. So how did you take the existing team with this emphasis on storytelling and then double performance, tripling the business. Triple the business. Sorry, triple the business. Triple the business since you've been there?

Right, yeah. You know, our business is a strange business. I never saw a success in our business through a business plan. You need to believe in ideas. And when you believe in ideas, there's no cost and no financial plan. There's no figure that you need to look at. Of course you need to be cost efficient. But that comes after. At the beginning, you need to trust, you need to trust the person that are delivering a design that maybe you don't understand because they're not a creative people in the sense of designers. But you need to trust, you need to see and you need to look at some weak signals that you see around. For example, when I started the first show, the only people that were praising the collection were Anna Wintour, Marc Jacobs, all these people that are coming from this, from a long time that they know exactly how to spot a genius. The normal consumers, they were rejecting the aesthetic because you cannot turn around a company like Gucci of the size of Gucci aesthetically listening to customers. That is different from many other industries. You cannot do that through focus groups because customers in our industry, they, they tend to look on the rear mirror, they drive the car, they ask you what was there yesterday. Whilst in our industry, we need to anticipate, you can anticipate just with the creative talents of people. That is a way of investing so heavily in people in training, getting the talents, having a culture that attract people. That was not the case at the beginning. So everything goes around and then technology helps in many other instances. So they need to be blended together. But if I want to see what is going to happen in the next.

What needs to get blended together? The geniuses and technology, the geniuses and the customers, what is getting blended?

It's going to be blended when, if we have a, for example, a line of bags that is particularly beautiful, we can ask the customer or the data, what kind of size, what kind, where you can put the pocket. That's fine. That data can help.

So the customer feedback.

Yeah, correct.

Has to get blended with the genius.

By the, in the, in the very, very short term.

Yeah.

They cannot tell you, they cannot predict what is going to happen in the next 18 months at all. So you need to rely on people on that.

Mm. And are you cultivating then those people? Were they already there when you got there or did you find some of these people? The.

I mean, Alessandro. Alessandro Michele, the creative director of Gucci, was already in Gucci for 12 years, so was exactly the person that didn't want to hire. Because when I joined, I wanted to change dramatically Gucci. So I was looking for other, you know, characteristics, big names, etc. But then it happened that I met him for the first time for a coffee and I was. I fell completely in love with the guy with this idea, the way in which he was connecting past and future, the way in which he was talking, the way in which he was matching my ideas in terms of business innovation. So I took the bet. And luckily.

So he's been a key part of your strategy. But then also you've made a number of values changes in the business too, to increase performance. So you've changed things too, right, because you have programs that you've created, like volunteer programs and the change makers and sustainability programs. But you're changing the core value system of Gucci. It's not just you're changing the aesthetic. Is that the right way to think about it?

Absolutely. As we said from the beginning, values is part of the change of the aesthetic. The two things goes together. And this kind of freedom that you can express is because we have these values. The Changemaker program is in fact something that we launched one year ago and it was inspired by the 1% pledge that you started many years ago. And it was a way for us to give the possibility to different culture, to be exposed to the fashion industry. Because I'm coming from Italy, I mean, we are not a diverse country at all, but we think that diversity is a strength for the creativity. So we wanted to make sure that indifferent. We took like 12 universities around the globe. We launched this problem called fellowship. We were able to gather 50 students that will join the design team in March this year in Rome with Alessandro. And they're going to bring ideas to Alessandro. Alessandro is a kind of eclectic creative director, because different from many other creative directors, especially in the past, that were controlling everything by themselves, is opening the aesthetic of Gucci to many different collaboration. Up to now it is 150 collaboration. And this digitalization of the world helped a lot because it was able to scout different talents everywhere in the world, working with them, giving them the chance to express themselves through Gucci. And normally they were completely unknown, but it was using the possibility of bringing them in the catwalk or in Instagram, et cetera, and creating people that now are quite successful. So this kind of way of exposing ourselves to two different things is key. Sustainability is certainly another aspect, another factor, because sustainability has two effects. The first one, if you think in a different way, in terms of use of material, in terms of use of material, in terms of gas emission, in terms of use of the land that you use, in terms of supply chain, etc. You stress yourself in order to be innovative. Because it's difficult to be sustainable in a company that is 100 year old. The business model was built from a long time. So changing tactic, it takes time, but it's not even an option. I think that what we are reading everywhere, I mean from everybody, we don't have time. I mean, I was listening to Tim Cook before, certainly the way in which he project creativity, try to find different ways of tackling the gas emission is impressive. And it should come from people like him, creative companies like him. But the fact is today everybody is not net zero. Because if we encompass in the calculation the supply chain, especially for a manufacturing company like ours, we are polluting. And even if we set targets in 2050 to be net zero, it's too late. And today there's no technology, no process that we can use to become net zero today. So that's the reason why this morning actually I launched through Fast Company this challenge to the CEOs like you, or to the one in the audience, because we didn't need to act now to try to make sure that what we cannot be offset today, what cannot avoid and reduce today, needs to be offset. To be offset means to protect biodiversity, planting trees, utilizing natural based solution. That is the key today. Because in the meantime working with technology, because there are many startups that could help for our industry to reduce the gas emissions. There are companies that try to invent the leather in vitro, so they do the leather in vitro. So all the tanning process is going to disappear, no pollution anymore, no use of water, etc. Etc. But today they don't have the quality and the scalability. It's going to happen. In the meantime, we need to buy time. And I read a piece in Bloomberg in saying that we should need 300 billion euro today to buy 20 years more in terms of gas emission using natural based solution. So 300 billion euro is penis. It's like two months of investment in the army in the world. If you think about the amount of money that in 2008 has been put in the market in order to Avoid the financial crisis. I think it's feasible. And that is why we started this activity in order to offset for Gucci and become carbon neutral. And you know, we paid in order to be carbon neutral. $8.5 million for a company of 10 billion like ours is nothing. And that is the reason why everybody should try to do it. Because of course it's not the final solution, but is the solution today and we cannot just think that tomorrow we will have an idea that we will offset because it's going to be too late. That is why we launched this kind of challenge. The idea of the challenge came from the ice bucket because we don't take us too seriously. The idea was decided to do the same thing in an ironic way on a topic that is not ironic at all.

So that's very similar to what Tim Cook was saying. Tim Cook was saying that one of his major goals is to to make the Apple supply chain fully renewable, just like his company already is today. Is that the same thing that you're saying, that you're going to go through your supply chain? Yes. And make sure it's fully sustainable?

Right, right. Because the point, I mean as of today, in most of the companies, most in the industry, we talk, there are two scope, scope, one scope, two scope, three scope. The supply chain, supply chain represent for all the industry approximately 8 to 90% of the gas emissions. So if you don't touch the supply chain, you just touch your offices, your shops, etc. You don't touch the most part of the gas emission. So we need to go in that direction. We need to work both in terms of searching in the right territories, protecting the biodiversity, trace what you do. We are 100% trustability in terms of what we produce already in Gucci. So we need to go in that direction. But the technology today is not at the level to allow us to be in the same zero. That is why we need to know to balance a trade off in the short term through offsetting. This is imperative for me.

Yeah, I've heard this now from a number of CEOs in different industries, some of whom who are here at Dreamforce, like Adrian Hallmark is the CEO of Bentley, somebody who used to work with Stella McCartney, now yourself, Tim Cook, the CEO of Cargill have all said the same thing, which is that they want to have a fully 100% sustainable supply chain. That this is their commitment to improving the state of the world. Is that inspiring to you then to be able to look to pursue that through your industry is absolutely key.

The question to me is which is the target? Because if you set the target 20, 50, I mean, there's a problem with narrative here, I think. And I think in our industry we're quite good in narrative. Everybody's saying that we are going to kill the planet. We are not killing the planet. The planet will survive. We're going to kill ourselves. That is very different. So I don't want to kill myself. So that's the reason why we need to balance the two things together.

Well, from the first industrial revolution, today the total emissions output has been about 210 gigatons of carbon. Carbon itself is not additive to the planet. It's a constant on the planet. It's either in the ground or it's in the oceans. It could be in the trees. It could be. Or it could be. Actually, it could be in whales. Whales sequester 1400 trees of carbon. Or it could be in the atmosphere. We don't want it in the atmosphere. So that basically that 208 gigatons that has been immersed into the atmosphere since the start of the first Industrial revolution, and that's why the ocean is getting hotter, because it's sequestering carbon. There's about 40,000 gigatons sequestered in the ocean. There's 3,000 gigatons sequestered, I think in soils. I'm not exact. These are approximate numbers. There's about 900 gigatons that are sequestered in the trees. So we have 3 trillion trees today. I was reading in Scientific American, a study from a scientist in Zurich. If you were to put another trillion trees on the planet, it would suck out of the atmosphere all 208 gigatons of carbon since the first industrial revolution. You know, are these the types of solutions that you're looking for, ways to sequester the carbon, ways to prevent the carbon from getting in the environment?

Yeah, I mean, mostly are two. They're very simple. One is planting trees or protecting biodiversity. Because there are two things that we are suffering. I mean, look at all the fires that we have everywhere in San Francisco now. I read that you are investing as a city $5 billion in order to make sure that the sea levels. So we have already treated the consequences. So we are already in a situation where we need to take action. And I mean, it's very inspiring to see so many CEOs and leaders and innovative people to really make sure that this doesn't happen.

Yeah. There's only so many ways to be able to get the carbon out of the atmosphere. One is to reduce emissions, then the oceans are doing their part, the trees are doing their part, and then the regenerative soils are doing their part. And if you. The tree is our most efficient technology for sequestering carbon. And if we all got behind an effort to plant a trillion trees, that would happen. Global warming, at least what I read would stop.

Exactly what I read. Exwell.

So is that something, do you think that more CEOs and more companies should get behind? I don't know, figure out how to get a trillion more trees on the planet?

I mean, we planned the last fashion show. We invited 2,000 people to our fashion show. We planted 2,000 trees in Milan.

Well, you only have about 999 billion. 999 billion.

That's the reason why you should be part of the challenge. So you can plant some trees as well.

Yes. Well, we're a net zero company today and we'll be fully renewable hopefully shortly. That's our goal. But that's definitely been on my mind since I read the research which came out this summer, that there's been an amazing scientist that is in Zurich named Crowther who basically came up with some AI technology and he was able to look at satellite images of the planet and said the trees need to go in eight countries and they would go exactly here. He's using artificial intelligence. And then I saw articles in Science, Scientific American and other journals on this, and I was thinking, this is like another level. And then at the same time, I HEAR so many CEOs able to articulate like you did so beautifully, sustainability is a core value. So why do you think that's happening right now? Why is sustainability becoming a core value to a company like Gucci or to Caring Group, which you're a part of, or others? Why? Why is that becoming the core? Because certainly when I went to business school, which was, you know, way back when in 82 to 86, we didn't have a class on sustainability, for example.

Same for me. Listen, fashion is the second most polluting industry of the world after the oil industry. So for this reason, there's a good and bad. The bad is going to attack us much more because we are very visible. The good one is because we are very visible. We can have traction and, you know, create a kind of sustainability from people coming to us and understanding what we do. So together with that, what you read, what you said, is exactly what's scaring us for our kids, for our families. I mean, it's not so far away what is going to happen. And it's certified by many sources. So that's the reason why it's not even an option. It's not even an ethical option. It's a matter of surviving or not. It's very simple. We don't need to think too much. We just need to do it in a way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the only way. Everybody's going to do his own way as long as we gather together, as you said. There was this interview that I read recently made to Einstein, that is the original one is they asked.

Right there on the right side of your shoulder, they asked.

Exactly. They asked him which is the most important invention of all times. The answer was compound interest. That is the action that you take today. Together, they're going to have an exponential impact in the future for the next generation. If that is true, more people and more CEO they get in this way the easiest. It's going to be together with the 2003 of the Fashion show to attack the future.

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's kind of like what I said, which is that when I went to school, there wasn't a class on sustainability or volunteerism or like you said, the 111 model, or how to use your company as a platform for change. That business can be a platform for change. That's why I wrote the book Trailblazer, because I wanted to be able to kind of communicate what I've learned as a CEO. But what has inspired me are people like you, Marco, who are spontaneously having the same idea that your business is the greatest platform for change and that great companies like Gucci and Kering and others can align on technology that's very accessible to us because the future has not happened yet. So if we're loathing a future that has not happened yet, we can get involved now and take a position to prevent that from happening. And certainly we don't want the environment becoming inhabitable. Inhabitable. Inhabitable.

Ask Einstein.

So we want to take action now and do something. And I think that that is probably the best part about being a CEO is that you can have a platform. And also the other part is, like you, we have all these great customers, these trailblazers, and they're part of our ecosystem in a way. They are our supply chain.

Absolutely.

And we're trying to inspire them and to excite them and energize them, because I think a lot of the answers are also with them sort of trying to listen so deeply to what they have to say as well. So I want to just get back to one thought, if that's all right. So you said we started out talking about the importance of Italy and also the importance of creativity, the importance of empathy, the importance of authenticity. You know, when you look at these core values, you know, for Gucci and you are talking to your employees, what is the highest value that you're bringing forth to your employees?

I think what we try, what I try to do is to make sure that the people have the ability to express themselves. And especially in big organization like yours or like mine, the risk that we run is the. Especially the younger kids, they don't have a voice, they cannot talk. In our world, most probably they are more answered than us. So the possibility for them to be accessible, I think is a great thing because they can express themselves. They can give me a lot of ideas. Especially the beginning of this turnaround. I was doing many, many lunches with all the people below 30 years old, asking them three questions, say, give me something that can change. That is the easiest way. Because our job is so easy. You just need to listen. You don't need to reinvent the wheel all the time. And the people that are doing the job every day, they know what is not happening. Well, so. And together with that, I create a so called shadow committee with like a shadow board of directors or below 30, always asking the same question that I asked to my team.

So these are like reverse mentors.

Yes, exactly.

They're mentoring you from the future.

Exactly. Think about, I mean, now we have 20,000 people. I mean, even if my ego is big, I mean, it cannot be more intelligent than 20,000 people.

What other kind of things would you like to do to be able to tap into the future and bring that forward and have those voices come into you more aggressively?

What we try to do, we created is we call that Gucci voices. We picked people from different, you know, industries or competencies. We working with Colin Kaepernick, we work with clear weight. We work with people that really are not shy to express themselves. They reflect exactly the kind of value that we want to deliver. So speaking up, taking stance as a company, because if we say that we want to have certain values, we cannot refrain to take a stand that is not to be politically oriented. I don't really care about that. We stand about values, not political things. So we. I want to be exposed by people that can stand, think differently, they can give me ideas, they can have a different background, different culture. And to me, it's a great asset. I mean, for the position that I have the most Important thing that I got is not about money, not about that. I think it's the possibility to talk to people that I admire, to be talking to you today or having the possibility to meet other people that for me, a legend that I just read in the papers, using this position to get exposed to ideas and to gather people together and to change or to approach things in a way that is more meaningful than just one single company. Because even if we are carbon neutral as Gucci, we are a drop in the ocean. We are a big company, but very small in a bigger scheme. So that's the reason why the compound interest is key, is the fact that we need to do it together with others.

So it's the voices. Those are voices inside Gucci, but also outside Gucci.

Outside Gucci, exactly.

And you're bringing that in. And then you have this kind of rudder, which are these creative directors that are helping to figure out what the future is going. Because you can't figure it out by looking in the rearview mirror.

Exactly.

Is that the way to think about it?

Is that the way? Today we are like 200 designers, 200 creative people just thinking about new product or new trends, etc. Etc. And they live in Rome, in this beautiful city, exposed the beauty every single day. And the only thing that I need to do is to support them, to make sure that they can risk and they can do mistakes and they have the money to take a risk. And I mean, Alessandro McCain never saw a figure in the last five years. The first time that I tried it was falling asleep as well.

Now you have taken though these high values, but we kind of went by this very quickly. But your performance has radically accelerated as a CEO. Right. So you're a high performing CEO. You're delivering this breakneck speed for your company. Right. So what, what is the intersection point then between performance and values?

I think that performance is just a consequence if you don't do the right things in terms of values, in terms of message, etc. In terms of aesthetic, I mean, you don't have financial results. I will never, I never start. I mean, a new company looking at what is going to be my objective in terms of numbers, good numbers is consequence of choices of something that is more qualitative. Having the right people making the right choices in terms of strategy and then the finance will follow because it cannot be an obstacle. It cannot be so very exciting.

Well, Marco, we're so happy you're at Dreamforce with all of us. Thank you so much. Coming all the way from Italy to be with us. Great job. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you.