The Art of Connection with Baya Voce | The Alchemy Podcast #20

Welcome back, everybody, to.

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode. Just kidding.

We're gonna keep that. We're keeping that. Hey, whoever's editing this, do not cut this.

Continue to another episode of the Alchemy performance coaching podcast.

Nailed it. As you can see, I'm with actually one of my best friends in the whole world. And I was thinking when we were driving, I was thinking when we were driving, you probably know me better than anyone else in the world.

Sweet.

Like, into the depth of, like, my background. My. Because I share so many details. Like, you've been part of the journey for so long. You knew me before you knew me when I was still working at Vivint.

I sure did kind of cut the tail. Top sales rep. Yeah.

And then through the whole spiritual psychedelic awakening and relationships and moving and traveling and you've been there through it all.

Totally.

Yeah. So welcome be of oche.

Thanks.

So honored to have you. And I want to start with the number one thing I admire most about you.

Wow.

And I've never shared this with you before.

Okay.

But what I admire about you is when I come to you to share something heavy on my heart or a big experience I'm having. Your ability to tune in and respond and make me feel seen and heard and held and, like, cared for is unbelievable. And it really came apparent to me just not too long ago. I was with some friends, and I shared kind of a big piece of news. And I noticed that a lot of times, the way people respond to something is they immediately related about themselves. Oh, yeah. I get what you're saying. This happened to me, or, oh, I know someone that went through something. It is. And there's this, like, you miss this window of, like, not feeling seen and heard. And one thing you do so incredibly well is when I share something, you, like, have this ability to, like, lock in and be present. And your first question is like, well, how was that? How does that make you feel? Like, tell me more. And you, like, lean in. And it's a really special gift. And it just makes me feel seen and heard and appreciated and valued. And I'm curious if that is something you just kind of naturally always had or is that a skill set that you had to learn?

Well, first of all, thank you. I feel really seen right now, so thanks for that. I would consider myself a highly sensitive or deeply feeling human. And throughout my life, I have felt kind of misattuned to by family, by friends and relationships. And so I think I have built the skills to attune to somebody else because it was missed so much for me. And it's one of the things that when someone can attune to me, helps my whole nervous system relax. And I notice it in business, I notice it in friendships, I notice it with my wife, I notice it everywhere. That if someone can just take the time to actually sit in presence with me, which requires slowing down, we move so fast, especially in sales. But when I think about what it actually takes to be with somebody, if we really want to know how to be with a person, it requires being slow, it requires taking a breath, taking a pause, so that you can actually feel what's happening with the person in the moment or start to understand what questions to ask. But we live in a culture that is go, go, go, fast, fast, fast. And the next thing we want to do, it's. And people listen. Actually, by the way, I don't blame people who want to relate. It's a way that we feel like we're connecting. It's human nature to say, hey, you're going through this. Oh, I've gone through this too. Oh, now we don't feel so alone, right? But I actually think what it means to be put present with somebody. That skill set, that word can be super amorphous and not mean much. But one of the first things that I think presence requires is slowing the moment down, taking a breath before you respond so that you can take someone in. But oftentimes we don't want to let that pause happen because now we're in our own, we're in ourselves at this point. Now we're thinking about what we're, what question can make us connect. And actually, this is a kind of a weird side tangent, but in dominance and submission, bdsm, anything like that, the, the person who is the submissive, their focus is on themselves. So interestingly enough, it's actually a submissive, almost bold beta move to focus in on yourself in moments of conversation. The dominant in, you know, sexual exploration or in a conversation that has nothing to do with sex, their focus and attention is actually outward. If you think about it, in an environment, in a sexual environment, if you have somebody who is completely submitting to you, then you have to be so attuned to them. Your focus can't be inward, right? The minute it comes inward, you're actually not going to be able to, to know what's needed in the moment and you can actually harm someone. As the submissive, all you're doing is thinking about yourself. You're thinking, how can I soften more? How can I Serve more. How can I ex. So it's actually a more submissive move. Although we wouldn't necessarily think about it.

I've never thought of it that way.

A lot of people haven't. It's actually in a book called Unbound. That's. I think, really it's a. That concept. When I learned that, it made so much sense, though. Okay. The minute that I start to focus in on me, I lose you, and then the connection shifts.

Yeah. So you mentioned, like, you learned this through not feeling seen and heard yourself. Right. And feeling. I'm sure you've wanted to express yourself and you've shared, you know, in private conversation, like growing up in Utah and not being Mormon and like, this desire to want to be kind of seen and heard and cool. I'm curious what. You know, a lot of the people who listen to this podcast, you know, are working cells. They kind of have some Utah tie in some capacity. You know, a lot of guys are religious, you know, and it's kind of not everyone, but it's common. I'm curious, like, what is it like to be raised in Utah and feeling like you don't belong in the cool kids club?

Yeah, well, like you mentioned, I grew up in Salt Lake City. I wasn't Mormon. My parents were hippies. And back when I was growing up, almost everybody was Mormon. So I went to school with all Mormons. And I was always kind of in, but not quite. It was like, I would go to the camps. I would go to church with some of my friends. I would date the Mormon boys. I would do. I would, like, you know, play a Mormon in, but not convert. And when I. It was. It was when I left elementary school, and I was super lonely in elementary. I didn't have this language yet. I just knew. I felt really alone and isolated coming out of elementary school. When I went into junior high, I was like, all right, Bea, things are gonna change. You're gonna do whatever you can to fit in, to wear the Abercrombie, to do whatever the. You know, like, no more hand me downs. I mean, that was. There was a way that I just manufactured my personality to become a chameleon, to be who everybody else wanted me to be so that I could be in. So that I could be popular. I ran for student government. I became a cheerleader. I was on the dance company. I was student body president of my high school. Like, I did. I. I went so full on to, like, I will be whatever you need me to be in order to be liked. Which, of course, Left me feeling desperately alone in my own being and not having any idea of who I actually was. I could show up at an event and be very sweet and soft. I could show up at a party with some of my friends and I could be the person dancing on the table. It took me a really long time to center myself in who I actually am. And in some ways, I still ask that question, okay, what am I supposed to say on this podcast so the people who are religious that are listening won't feel outcast by what I say? Right. I'm already thinking, oh, I talked about dominance and submission. I said BDSM them. The Mormon kids who are listening to this are gonna be like, whoa. Right?

Yeah, yeah.

And I've really had to press that boundary for myself to be. Like, what does it actually mean to not be for everyone? What does it actually mean to. To be so deeply connected to myself that being real and authentic is more important than. Than being liked? And that was not obvious for me for many years.

Well, I don't think it's obvious for a lot of people. Right. Like, there is a. Especially growing up, there's kind of like a roadmap of how to be popular, wear the Abercrombie, be on the basketball team, you know, like, we have that roadmap. There isn't a roadmap to, like, tune into your authentic self. And so was there, like, how did, how did you uncover that piece? And like, when were you, like, you know, I realized I'm being dis. Not inauthentic to myself, trying to figure out who I am. Where did you turn to? What did you look to? Was there books or podcasts or, like, how did you guide that inner journey? Because from my perspective, that's not really easily available and easy to find. And I feel like a lot of people struggle with that. Like, people are craving authenticity. They want to feel safe, to express who they truly are. And a lot of times we just don't have tools and support. So how. How. How did you figure it out? Like, what was your process like?

I mean, somebody has the answer. Like, like, I'm here listening. I think about a graph where you see the arrow going steadily up and that the journey of finding oneself is way more like an arrow that goes up and then down and then up and then down. It's steadily making its way up, but it is. It's non linear.

Yeah.

So I can think about moments when I was more myself, and I can think about moments where I was on the real world for some of you you probably don't even know what that show is, which is wild to think about. OG we're going to go, oh gee. I know. It was. For anyone who doesn't know, it was on MTV and it was one of the very first reality TV shows. About seven strangers picked to live in a house and just literally have their lives taped. So I remember auditioning for that show and behind the scenes when the producer was asking me questions tonight and I was going through my audition rounds, I was the wildest version of myself because I was like, well, the likelihood of me getting on the show is super low, so I might as well just go like send it. So I was like, yeah. Oh my God, this is so embarrassing. I can't even believe I'm saying this. I remember I was like, yeah, they call me bea the 801 player. Like, I mean, so dumb. I can't even.

The 801 one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I have three boyfriends right now and you know, I mean, I just like really, really sent it. When I got on camera, I fully froze. I was like, oh, I'm not going to be a psycho. You think I'm going to make out with someone, let alone have sex with someone on camera? Like, you're insane. And so we would joke at the end of the show when the show aired, my roommates, my roommates. And I would joke that one of my roommate mates, water bottles got more airtime than I did. And, and I say that because I got on camera and I was mortified to actually be who I was. But then I fell into basically about a seven year depression after that of trying to be like, okay, well maybe I just want to like keep the limelight. So maybe I become a dj. I was digital, trip digital. I was a nightclub DJ for a while. Or maybe I'm going to become a yoga teacher now. Or I mean I just did so many things, so trying to find the thing that would suit me there. I wish I could say one moment or one book, but I have once, once I fell into that deep depression, I started on the self development path, which thank goodness a lot of people who are listening to this are already on that path. For me, that started in my early 20s. I went to Landmark where I learned what it meant to take responsibility, take ownership. I went to some other super weird, pretty shady self development stuff. Like I just, I just basically dove headfirst into any self development that reson resonated with me. Like, I don't know that there's one book for all of Us. I think you find the thing that calls you and that speaks to you and the author that, that you hear that you're like, ah, that's me. I see me in there. So I don't know that it's one book or one moment, but it was a, A. I have, I think what is behind my ability to get on stage today or to talk to you today and be like, oh, I'm gonna say the thing that's pretty ugly. I'm gonna say the thing that's really embarrassing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that I said this thing that I was the. So embarrassed about that. And the reason that I feel like I can say that today is because. Oh, gosh, it sounds so cliche. I have been on a growth path since I can remember. I put myself in therapy when I was in high school. I then did the self development workshops. I've been, I've truly been in therapy as a client of therapy, as a student of coaching for as long, truly, as long as I can remember. And that has just shown me my path. It's like little by little, like this onion being peeled, like, oh, there's my path right now. It's not this five year plan. Ah, okay. There's my path today. And it's so much like, you know, Michael Singer's work that you're so steeped into is the next thing that's going to show me my evolution. Ah, okay. The next crucible that I'm in. Oh, great. I just got engaged to this guy who I thought was gonna be my partner. Turns out all of these lies unfolded and he breaks up with me. Whoa. Didn't see that coming. Who am I now? Who do I become outside, like our crucible? Our crucibles. Certainly my crucibles have defined me over and over and over again. It doesn't seem like it's been a conscious choice. It feels like I've been delivered through a lot of hardship. Oh, here's your next crucible. Want to show up for it? Here's your next crucible. Want to become who you're going to become now. Like, it's almost like chocolate vanilla chews.

Yeah. One thing that comes up is like, I as. As you say, that is I've realized the more personal development work I've done and, and have learned new tools and skill sets to live a healthier, better life. It feels like the harder the challenges get. And it's like, it feels like now, like as you grow and expand, it's almost like God or The universe puts in front of you a new challenge for growth and development, and it, like, feels like it never ends.

I think about this a lot because I feel like in some ways, I'm kind of a personal development junkie.

Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, when can I just sit on the sidelines for, like, can I chill?

It's more relaxed. Chill for a little bit.

Chill.

Give me a break.

Yeah. I'm not talking a year. Give me five days. Yeah.

For those that are listening without audio, Bea goes into these little meditative moments to tune into what she wants to say. So there's no issue with the audio.

I thought that maybe you would cut the parts that are. That have a lot of space. But it's funny because in the therapy room, when I'm a practitioner and I. And I with my clients, this is what I will often do. They'll ask me a question, and I just close my eyes and I tune in. But it can take me a while to find the answer. So I'm. So I was actually hoping we should have talked about this beforehand, but I was hoping that in the pauses, that those would be cut so that I could. I like the space, but you're right. For people who are just listening. I don't know that I have an answer to that. To be totally honest. I think. I don't even remember the question.

Yeah, well, I don't think there is an answer. I think that, you know, part of the personal development path is, you know, it's. The corny quote is like, hey, it's not about the destination. It's the journey, which is so true. Who you become along the path and that you're in. There's no finish line to life. And that we're all. I believe we're always going to be asked to grow and expand given our capacity. And with that, you know, one thing that I can tell about you is you have this, like, obsession about relationships. You know, you're the relationship coach with an alchemy. You've done relationship support in my personal relationships. And I can tell that it's something about you that just lights you up. And the reason we even got connected as friends was you were hosting a relationship thing on Good Things Utah, and my sister was hosting Good Things Utah, and that was kind of the, you know, the piece that connected all of us. And so when did you. When did you realize or decide that, like, hey, I want to tackle relationships and really understand what it's like to relate to one another?

Well, I think it comes from A deep pain of not feeling seen, not feeling my own belonging, and feeling what it actually feels like to be lonely, which when I first started thinking about loneliness, I thought only happened to people who were in isolation and then started realizing more and more, no, you can be lonely in your workplace, you can be lonely in leadership, you can be lonely in your family dynamic, you can be lonely in your community, and you can certainly be lonely in your relationship. And I would say the loneliest I have ever felt myself is in relationship. I don't have that much experience with loneliness in isolation, but I will tell you, with my groups of friends, I felt really lonely. And in my. In my relationships, I've felt extremely alone. And the reason being is because, like I said, I feel like I'm. I actually feel like most of us are deeply feeling and most of us are sensitive. We just have a lot of mechanisms that cover that up. And for me, the journey of belonging myself inside of relationships has been one of deeply needing to deeply understand what it means to be in relationship with another, which does not necessarily mean you're in proximity with them. There's something about what it means to be seen, heard, valued, understood in relationship that requires a knowing of oneself and a knowing of another that we did not learn in school. Yeah, and I have been obsessed with relationships as long as I can remember. And it was my ex boyfriend who was like, all right, if you keep making our relationship the work, you have got to. You've got to do this professionally because you're gonna make me crazy if you don't. And I was like, yeah, you're probably, probably right. It's probably time. But at first I was studying loneliness in general, just studying loneliness. And then I got onto loneliness and relationships and I was like, wait a freaking second here. Like, there is something here. Because loneliness in relationships, no one sees from the outside looking in. It's one of those things that's hidden in plain sight. And if you're feeling disconnected to your partner, no one sees it. So no one knows to check in. So you don't have anybody. And by the way, we've been raised on Disney, we've been raised on Hollywood rom coms. We're living in a society that has no idea how to relate to people who have different values or different ways, ways of thinking or being than them. And we live in a culture that has largely swept conflict or difference under the rug. So let me hang out with me and my friends over here who have the same political ideology, who have the same faith, who have the Same, same, same. Oh, guess what? Now we get into a relationship with someone, turns out you're not the exact same as me. Even if we have the same faith, even if we vote the same, even if we X, Y and z the same, you're a different human being. And my whole life, I've been raised through Disney, through Hollywood, through social media, seeing what. What's out there. I've been raised to think that I'm going to meet you and you're going to fill something in me that has been missing this whole time. And when that doesn't happen, when you don't fill that void as a partner, when you don't fill that void, oh, now what?

Scary.

Super scary. Super scary. And nobody on the outside knows it's happening because we go to the parties and we're sweet. We don't talk about that because we don't think anybody else is going through it yet. I would. I will tell you. With all the clients who come into my office, most people are feeling disconnected. It's so common because disconnection looks a number of ways. It looks like I'm gonna suffer in silence. I'm not gonna actually speak my truth because I don't know how, because I don't wanna hurt myself or you. I'm scared that you're gonna leave. I'm scared that I'm gonn. It could look like that feeling of I never do anything good enough. I try and try and try, and no matter how hard I try, you're always complaining. I can never win. I can never get ahead. Loneliness can look like the question that you don't actually bring to your partner. The question of, is this really it? Is this what relationships are? Am I settling? Is this too hard? That's loneliness.

I mean, that last one slaps for me, right? Like, I've been in connections and I have, you know, you know me. I have this pattern of I'll meet someone and it's like, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing ever and it's gonna be amazing. And then I get into it and I'm like, this can't be it, right? There's. I feel like I'm missing something. And, you know, I've. I have felt, if I think back of when have I felt the most lonely in my life? I feel. I felt more lonely in relationship than I do by myself.

Same.

When I'm by myself, I'm chilling. Like, we'll watch college football. We're gonna order leads. We're chilling. Like, I'm. I'm fine. I'm fine. Totally. But there's this feeling. It's like, it's. For me, it's probably like one of the worst feelings of like, you know, I think back to a relationship I had two years ago. It was short, but like I didn't feel seen at all. I didn't feel heard. I felt I didn't enjoy when we were together because it felt like I was missing but I didn't have the courage to speak the truth. And it's just if it's this, you feel trapped, it's.

It really begs the question of what leads to loneliness. What actually gets us lonely in the first place and what has us feel seen? How does one feel seen or known or experienced in relationship to where they actually feel like, whoa, like you know me better than I know me in some ways. I'll say this. I believe, this is my belief. You can try this on and take it or leave it. I believe we hire our partners to emancipate us from the unhealed wounds of our pasts. That could be in our family dynamics. It could be with previous relationships. It's just by nature of being human, we have wounds that need to be healed, period. Every single one of us. Wounds that were created in relationship need to be healed in relationship. And so what, what, how to me, part of why we feel lonely in relationship is because we don't actually know what we're opting into when we say I want a healthy, long term relationship. And here's what I think we're actually opting into. We're saying, here I am, I'm coming to you with a dad who was an alcoholic. My first boyfriend who I lost my virginity to, cheated on me with one of my friends. I then got engaged to someone who lied. Big, big lies. So now I have some trust stuff. And you're going to take all of that on. That is your role. You're taking all of that on. We don't say that's what we're taking on. We don't come into relationship saying, cool, I'm into that, let's go. What we actually say is that came before me. That's not about me.

Yeah.

But what we're really opting into, again, just my belief, what we're really opting into when we get into relationship is all of your unhealed wounds that came before me. What an honor that I get to be the one to walk beside you and help you heal those wounds. But that's a completely different narrative than this independent narrative that we have of. I succeed by myself. I don't ask for help because that's weak. Anything that you help me do leaves me in a vulnerable position. And I don't really want to. I don't really want to ask for it because that's. I lose control. What we're really opting into is complete interdependence. But that's not the frame that we come into relationship with. We don't come into the relationship saying, okay, your safety, the way you feel safe or the way you feel free in relationship is going to be based on how we do conflict and how we do repair.

You said something, you know, you spoke at the alchemy summit earlier this week and this will be released later. That was really profound to me in regards to conflict. And one thing that I love is you highlight the importance of conflict. And that you talked about the rom coms in Disney is that we're never taught how to argue and have conflict in relationship. And because of that, we sweep it under the rug. And when you sweep it under the rug, it just stacks. Right? Which then sounds like, creates the disconnect, the frustration, whatever it may be. And so voice that, like, tell us a little bit about the importance of conflict in relationship. And you know, you have a framework on repair and I would love for you to share that because it's, it's so good. So can you speak to that a little bit more about the conflict piece?

What I want to say about this first is that every single one of us is high maintenance.

Yeah.

And so we get into relationships and we're like, repeat that though.

It's like, we got to hammer this down because it's so good.

Well, everybody is high maintenance.

We're all high maintenance.

Every single one of us.

Every single human being is high maintenance.

Every single one of us. But we, I mean, if you're listening, just like, let's, let's get honest with ourselves. How many times have you been like, oh my goodness, my partner is so high maintenance. Could I just trade them in for like a less high maintenance version of them? But no. Every single one of us, we're all high maintenance. Some of us are high maintenance because we have mood swings. We have high highs and low lows. Some of us are high maintenance because we don't even have access to our em. So we're quite stoic, but we close off pretty easily. Others of us are high maintenance because we leave our stuff everywhere and someone's got to look. We are all high maintenance in different ways, period. Full Stop. Every relationship requires the messiness of conflict. Because in order to have intimacy and in order to build trust, we need repair. How do we have repair? We need to have the mess of conflict. I get much more scared when couples come into my office and tell me they have no conflict. Because what I know is that no one is speaking up. Yeah, there's definitely things that are happening, but no one is available to actually say the thing. Conflict is inevitable and conflict is healthy when we do it well. But we didn't go to school where we learned conflict resolution tools. And unless we're reading the relationship books, we're learning about all the frameworks. We're. Where do you learn about conflict? Again, our culture doesn't teach us about it.

You know, one thing that's coming up for me right now is just like relationship. I've advice I've always have carried. And I don't know where I learned this somewhere in a young age, but it was, but it was always this concept that relationships, it's supposed to be easy. It's not easy. Then it's not the right one. And so in my, like, no wonder I'm 36 and single. It's because the moment there's tension or frustration or friction in my head, I have this story like, oh, that's not supposed to be easy. And I think that's been a demise.

Of myself and probably a lot of people listening. Yeah, I mean, easy. Here's what I would say. Relationships could be easy, but the skills to be in relationship are hard and they take a lot of practice. This is why, you know, there are lots of, there are lots of models of conflict resolution. And I think you could take any model that suits you. Right? There's imago dialogue, there's nonviolent communication. There's the four step apology. There's the feedback wheel. You know, I'm sure there are many, many more I'm not thinking of. That will give you the list of what you need to do. Take responsibility, own your role, mirror back. Take a pause. Right. There are all of these frameworks and thank goodness we have these frameworks. We need them, them. But they're not actually addressing what we, what we deeply, deeply need to have. Repair. Because I, I often say, if my wife comes to me and she repeats back what I say, I'm like, I want to donkey punch you. I like, this is terrible. This is like, I feel. I don't want to hear what.

I don't hear your script.

No, I don't want to hear your script. I Want to feel your presence, the sincerity.

Yeah.

But it's really hard to be sincere when you're triggered. It is really hard to not get dysregulated on your own if someone else comes to you in a dysregulated way. But this is relationships. This is the mess. It's not always going to be obvious who's more mad. One of the steps in the framework is that it's one person goes at a time.

Can you share the framework with us?

Yeah. So it's. So this is a repair framework that I think about, that is that to me, gets layered on top of any other. Like I said, conflict resolution, four step, yada, yada, that you can find. But you could use this on its own. One person at a time. You're at the customer service window, and repair is the secret ingredient. So one person at a time for repair. This means that the person who is most upset goes first. It's their turn. That doesn't mean you don't get a turn. It's just not. Right now, you get a turn at another time. Right now, the person who is most upset goes first. Now, it's not always so obvious who's most upset. So what I say is, if you're the person listening, you're the one who lets your partner go first. Because you're the only one I have in the room right now. You're the only ears I've got. So if you're both really upset, then you're doing the very, very hard work of doing what you need to do to go into the other room to pause, to take your moment so that you can come back to your partner and say, great, it's your turn. You go first. Which I'm gonna reiterate, this doesn't mean you don't get a turn, right. You definitely get a turn. It's just not your turn right then. So most people. This is what a lot of people get wrong. And this is what I. And I've learned this from my relationship mentor, Terry Real, who's a. Who's a longtime couples therapist and who has his own model called relational life therapy, which is fantastic and a really great tool for people looking for couples therapy and modalities. But this is what he taught one person at a time. Most people think it's a back and forth, but he says, I'm not gonna come up to you and say, hey, I have a broken microwave. Can you fix it? And you come up to me and you say, cool, I have a broken toaster. Can you Fix it. No, that's not what you do. This is when you're at the customer service window. So first is one person at a time. You gotta decide who that is. It's a person who's either most obviously upset or it's you because you're here. And you need to do whatever you need to do to make it to step two. Step two. So step two is you're at the customer service window. This is what I mean by that. Everybody has a perspective. Another quote that I love from my. From. From Terry Real is he says, there's no room for objective reality in relationship. No space for objective truth. You could be over there and be like, I'm just talking loudly. And I'm sitting over here being like, you're yelling. And you're like, no, I'm not. I'm talking loudly and I'm like, that's yelling to me. Who's right? Neither of us. It's just different perspective. You are driving the car, and I say to you, hey, you're going too fast. What do you mean I'm going too fast? I'm driving 10 miles over the speed limit. It's fine. That feels like you're going too fast. I'm not going too fast. I'm literally driving 10, 7 miles now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There is no room in a relationship for objective reality. And as long as you're fighting over logistics and objective truth, you're gonna lose.

And I get anywhere. Do you know. Do you feel like a lot of, you know, you do so much coaching for couples. Do a lot. It seems like my assumption. A lot of people get stuck there. They get stuck in these objective loops, and because they're arguing of who's right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're right. You know that you don't really get any progress done.

No, none. I mean, this is the problem. This is literally the point is, who's another Terryism? Who's right, who's wrong? Who cares? You have to live with this person. It's in your best interest to create harmony between the two of you because you have to. You're the one who has to go to bed next to them. So who's right, who's wrong? Who cares? By the way, if you're right and they're wrong, you lose because they feel like crap. Think about the roles are reversed, they're right, you're wrong, you feel like crap.

Yeah.

Nobody wins. So it's in your best interest to practice this so that you can have harmony in Your relationship. So in order to be at the customer service window, here's what you need to do. You need to. It's almost as if you're wearing, like, a suit of your perspective, and it's like a costume. And you zip off that suit and you put it next to you. You let that suit just, like, sit in a corner for a bit. It's not that your perspective doesn't get to come out when it's your turn, but right now, when you're in the.

Customer service window, it's off.

It's off. And think about this with sales, by the way. This is not just relationships, romantic relationships. This is sales. This is with business part. This is with your reps. This is within leadership positions. Like, this is all over the place. So your perspective is off to the side. It matters, but not right now. What this allows you to do is look at the person across from you and think, what's it like to be a Doug? It's certainly not what it's like to be a Bea. I'll tell you right now, my perspective is definitely different than that. But when I care more about my perspective than you, what I'm signaling is I am, in this moment, more important to you. And nobody is listening, so nobody gets heard. But this is super hard work, especially when you're triggered. Especially when you're triggered. But I'm about to give you. But I'm about to give you the key to start to regulate, because regulation is super hard, I tell you. Okay, go take a pause and regulate yourself so that you can go back to your person and say that, okay, now it's your turn. That is hard. Yeah, What I'm saying, all of these, everything I'm talking about could be a book. It could be a talk. It could be a movie. It could be unto itself. What I'm telling you is simple, not easy. Each one of these steps, being triggered and having your partner go first. Are you kidding me? Like, that's. That in and of itself can be like. Can feel impossible. But when you know you're doing it for your best interest gives you a little bit of motivation. So your perspective is off to the side. You're now looking at your partner, the person across from you, and getting super curious about what it is like to be in their shoes. The only way you can be curious is if your perspective is over there in the corner. Just for now. Because otherwise, I'm actually kind of a dick when I'm curious. I'm like, well, why don't you tell me what it was like for you to stay out 30 minutes later than you were supposed to. I'm curious. What was that like for you? Right. Like I'm just a jerk. But when I can actually be curious because I am interested in learning the creature who is you, because you are a completely different. The creature of Doug is a completely different creature than the. Than the creature of Bea. This can be really tricky when you have a partner, a spouse who you've been in relationship with forever and you think you know everything about them. What I am asking you to do right now is wipe that slate clean. Huh? What is it like to be you overnight?

Almost like you're seeing them for the first time. Like this curious. Like, what's it like to get in their world? I know nothing about this person. Like this empathetic get in their world mentality.

Yes.

Is that accurate?

That's exactly right. So I have an example of a couple of clients who came into my office recently. They went on a trip to visit one of their families, and he felt.

Like, can you use their names?

Yeah, Derek and Emmanuel. So Derek felt they were both guys. So I. So just so you know, it's a gay couple. Okay, so Derek, they go to visit Derek's family. Derek, they. They leave that experience. And Derek was like, I don't feel like you were actually present, Emmanuel. He's not saying this, but he's thinking it is in his head being like, what do you mean I wasn't present? I took off work. I was off my phone the whole time, and I asked your parents questions. What do you mean I wasn't present? But because he knows he's at the customer service window, that's his perspective. He just puts that to the side just for. Just for right now, while it's Derek's turn, he starts to be like, okay, it makes sense to me that you're angry. I believe that you're angry for a good reason. I'd love to hear some specifics of what made you feel that way so that I can start to understand what made you feel like I wasn't actually present and showing up. Then Derek gets to be like, well, here's the thing. You're super charismatic at other places. Like, I see you in business. I see you with people you want to get to know. And I see this charisma that is all over your face. You're super engaged. You're like, you. You could. You're totally magnetic. But with my parents, I feel like, you know, you ask them a question and then you're kind of, you know, you're just kind of sitting there, and then all of a sudden, they can go into shared reality. Now, Emmanuel can be like, actually, that makes sense to me. Okay, you're right. I actually am more charismatic with people that I want to do business with. And the truth, and this isn't easy to say, is that I don't actually have a lot in common with your parents. And so connecting with them is hard. So now we're out of who's right, who's wrong. We're out of let's argue over facts. Because, remember, facts don't matter. Truth doesn't matter because you have two different perspectives that could be completely different. And now we're talking about a deeper truth. It's a hard truth. It's not like Derek's like, oh, great, gee, shucks, you don't really like my parents or get along with them. Awesome. So glad you told me that. No, but now they're starting to regulate together. So this is where so you start to ask questions. And a very good question to ask off the bat, something to say. I suggest writing this down is you make sense to me. Your anger, your sadness. It makes sense to me. I want to understand that more. Can you tell me more about that?

Wow.

Very different from. What are you talking about? I was off my phone. I took off work. Like, it's a very different response. But the only way that I'm over here able to say that to you is I put my perspective aside. I realize it is about you. I'm at the customer service window. You are my client, period. Full stop. So now we're starting to get into shared reality. Now this is what co regulates people. Curiosity. I'm starting to get into your world. I'm starting to understand more and more about what you're saying. I'm starting to have you revealed, even though it might not make sense to me, even though that might not be my worldview, even though if the roles were reversed, that certainly would have been my reaction. Well, it's not about me. It's about the creature over there that I'm getting to know, like an anthropologist. So now we're starting to regulate together. I'm starting to calm down because I'm starting to understand you more. Yeah, I'm not calming myself down. I mean, sure, I can take deep, regulating breaths. I could exhale longer than my inhale to ignite my parasympathetic. Parasympathetic nervous system. I can definitely do that. And that's helpful for sure. But this is what co regulation is. This is what partnership is. This is what when I come to you and say, hey, we're signing up to heal each other's wounds. We're doing it in real time right now. So now our nervous systems are starting to mellow out because I'm starting to get a deeper understanding of where you're coming from. Not because I agree, because that's not the point, but because I'm starting to get into shared reality with you because you make sense to me. Wow. If you thought that way, I can totally see how you'd be angry or how you'd think I wasn't showing up. That makes sense to me. That is where you start to get into down, regulate, down, regulate, downregulate. From there, you can start to think about what to do, where do we go next. But a lot of people are gonna do that part first. They're gonna go into problem solving right.

Off the mode before it seems like there's a level of empathy and understanding.

You can't. And you actually can't go into super. You. Here's what's happening. When someone's triggered. They're scared. They might not say they're scared. Sometimes they'll look really angry. So you're not gonna know. But they're in. They're in their brain stem. So we're talking like the lowest, oldest part of their brains. In that part of the brain, all I'm thinking, I'm in my fight flight, freeze, appease response. All I'm thinking is how do I get myself safe? So once we start to get into shared reality, there starts to be some curiosity. I start to feel more heard and understood because you're asking questions and I'm starting to think more deeply about what's going on and explain myself to you. Now we move up the brain. Now we're in the limbic system. And this is so basic. I know that, that the limbic system and brainstem are in charge of way more than what I'm talking about right now. But the limbic system at a very basic level is asking, am I loved? You understand me? You're here saying the most reparative thing my wife has ever said to me ever is she said, I want you to know I want you to have what you want. I don't know how to give it to you, but I promise I'm going to try. I want you to have what you want. How few of us actually say that.

I'm literally envisioning having a partner to say that to me, it'd be like the most inspiring comment anyone's ever made.

To me, it's so good on the nervous system. Because what you're saying is, you matter. You make sense to me. Your response, even if it feels outsized. Right now, you have a history that has nothing to do with me. That happened way before me. That comes way before me. That has way more to do with your primary caretakers and how they took care of you and how you responded to your parents picking you up or not picking you up or being helicopter parents or not or being kind of abandoning. That has nothing to do with me. But even though it has nothing to do with me, you matter. I love you. I'm with you. I want you to heal. I want you to have what you want. Which is very different than the experience of why do you have to. Why are you so sensitive?

Right.

Why do you have to cry over everything? Why do you get so angry every time I ask you this? I can never do it. Right. It's a very different experience.

Yeah. What's coming? I mean, this is like so profound and so deep. And I'm going to assume that there's people listening to this who are like having breakthrough moments. And what would you say to someone who is wanting to experience more closeness with their partner, whether they're feeling alone or separated and their partner just isn't as evolved or engaged in this level of depth of work? What are some kind of basic intro level steps for someone to take to create that closeness? Because, I mean, what you just shared is like, really hard to do. Simple, hard to do.

Totally.

So where. Where does the beginner start?

I don't think this work is. I think it's pretty impossible to do with someone else out with. Without someone else in the room. I actually think we need a mediator. I think doing this on our own, unless you're super evolved, unless you've done a lot of work before is really, really hard.

Yeah. I don't think I could do this.

No. Oh, I think it's. I think it's. We barely can do it right. Emmy and I can barely do this without somebody in the room. There are topics where we know we can do it on our own, and then there are topics where we're like, we're just gonna go into a trigger spiral if we try and do this by ourselves. We need a mediated. We need someone else. So what I would say first is that oftentimes we. When couples come into my office, it's sort of like a dumping ground to fix their partner. Like, they come in and everybody's like, cool. I'm in here because my partner does this, and I want to make sure that they change.

I remember in my last relationship, we worked together, There would be note section, right? My partner would have a note section. Something happened. She's like, oh, I can't. I'm gonna wait and hold this for Bea. And I'm just like, oh, boy, here we go.

That's right. I mean, listen, we all do it. I do it, too. I'm like, oh, I hope. I hope our therapist fixes my wife. Like, I think about that all the time. But I think one thing, one mistake we make as beginners. Shoot. One state, one mistake we make as advanced practitioners, like, let's just say this is all across the board, is that we feel like in order to change, our partner needs to change, too. And so we put it onto our partner to need to change, to need to evolve. Now, there are requests we can make, and there are boundaries we can have, for sure. In fact, I did this talk to a group of people, and somebody said, I've been in relationships where people get angry, and I feel like I have quite a boundary over raising voices. Can I have a boundary around that? Of course you can have a boundary around that. Of course. But if you say to. If you say to somebody, hey, if you yell at me anymore, I'm gonna walk out of this room and like this. Okay, that's one way to do it. But probably not gonna get the response you want. If you say to somebody, hey, when you get angry, what happens inside of me is I can literally feel myself distance. I can feel myself wall off. I can feel my heart close. I can feel myself want to disengage and disappear. That's a very different way, because all of a sudden, I'm taking ownership and I get to have a boundary. And by the way, if that happens again, I want you to know, out of love, I'm not going to be able to put myself in that position because I'm not going to be able to regulate my nervous system. So the move, the beginner and advanced move, is to put it in the eye. So if your partner isn't into this work and you're listening to this podcast, I'm just gonna make a guess that your desire is that they are. That there's actually something about them not being in the work that's really hard for you.

Yeah.

If you say that, if you speak that with vulnerability and surrender, you're your own autonomous human Being. And ultimately, you can make any decision that you want. But here's what I'm feeling. I'm feeling unsafe in our relationship because I don't. I mean, this is. This is. I'll just use Emmy and myself as an example. There's a way where I have felt like I am more advanced in repair. This is what I do all day. She's an entrepreneur. She doesn't think about this all day. This is what I think about.

This is your life's work.

Oh, my. All day, every day. This is what I'm in. And there are ways where I wish she could attune to me better. I. There are ways that I wish she could regulate herself so. And be in curiosity longer so that we could find the meeting point when I put that on her. When I come to her and I'm like, I don't feel like you're showing up for this. Like, I feel, like, let down. She closes off. She's like, cool. I can't win. I feel like I'm trying, and I can't win. But when I have started and it has been a practice for me, I promise it is. I'll tell you what has not come naturally to me. To not put this on my partner. But when I practice deep surrender, which just means you're an autonomous human being, and I'm going to surrender that you actually need to do anything different, but then speak to you, my broken heart. I just want you to know, when we don't repair, I feel dropped. And when I feel dropped, I can literally feel myself want to leave. And I don't want to actually leave, but I can feel that part in me who feels desperately alone, which goes way, way back to childhood, who feels like I just want to disconnect. Like, I might first get needy. This is literally what I've said to her. First, I'll probably get needy, and I'll want more attention from you. And then when you predictably kind of become a little more avoidant, I'm actually gonna meet that avoidance, and I'm gonna close off my heart. Not because I'm not desperately seeking your love, but because I don't feel safe because nobody can meet me. I have that story. I have that story ingrained in me for years and years, for as long nobody can meet me. I'm too much. I'm too sensitive. And so when I feel you close down, Emmy, truly, this is literally what I'm saying. Or when I feel you close down, all of that is happening inside me, and I love you. And you also don't need to change. I just want you to know there's an impact. So then there can be a request. Would you be open to going to therapy? Would you be open to getting a coach? Would you be open to reading this book? Tricky part with requests is requests can very easily and very sneakily be masked and actually be demands and not actually be requests at all. Their demands masked as requests.

Is there a way to ask for a request in a way that doesn't fall into subconsciously being a demand?

It's not how you ask. It's that you know, if your partner says no, that you've given them the option.

Yeah.

That they actually get to say no. And you, over here on this side, deal with your hurt. There's another line that Terri says that I love a lot, which is, there's going to be. Listen, there's hardship in every relationship. There's conflict in every relationship. We know that by now. You need to ask yourself, is what I am getting in this relationship worth grieving? What I'm not. I'm going to say that again because I think it's really important is what I'm getting in this relationship is what I'm getting all the good things enough for me to grieve, the things that I'm not getting, that I might not ever get. And if the answer is yes, you grieve. You do you. You go into your feelings, and if the answer is no, then you're working on what that actually means. Do we split? Do we separate? Yeah, but what's in between is resentment.

Right.

It's easy to imagine that because a person has chosen us that they need to do all of these things because they owe it to us, because we're in relationship. But there is this great McKinsey study. McKinsey did this survey with their managers asking why they felt like their managers were leaving or why they felt like their employees were leaving. And across the board, the manager said because they. Because they wanted more pay. They put that same survey out to employees. And the employees said they were leaving because they didn't feel seen and appreciated. It's a big difference. So imagine this with your reps. Imagine this with your partner. Imagine this with your employees. Imagine this for yourself, why you've left relationships, why you've left jobs. If you really felt seen, if you really felt appreciated, you were not going to go anywhere. You're staying. You're in it, because that's the deepest wellspring of love.

Yeah. I think, you know, Oprah has A quote says, we at our core, we all truly want the same thing. And that's to feel fully seen, heard, and accepted and to express the highest part of our being. And that piece of feeling seen and accepted and heard is just so valuable. And I look at it on a business sense. And the relationships that mean the most to me today are with people, you know, you included people where I feel fully seen and accepted, even with my insecurities and imperfections. And to create that, it seems like, you know, to create that. That type of connection in a romantic relationship is really the foundation of everything.

And it is hard. Yeah, it is hard to see. And it is hard to be seen because we were never taught this in school. We took chemistry instead.

Unfortunately, mitochondria is a powerhouse of the cell.

That's. That's right. I got to tell you, I don't remember anything, but come on, like, if we could have this stuff in schools. Give me a break. But nobody taught us. And our parents were not having conversations about this. It's not like our parents were bad people. But these were not the kinds of conversations that our parents were in. They had no idea what they were doing. None of us do. None of us have any idea what we're doing because of our. How our caregivers responded to us. Based on how our caregivers responded to us when we were little. I'm talking from the wound into being a baby, into a toddler, all the way growing up. Whether they responded to us by kind of enmeshing themselves and being globbing on, like, giving way too much attention or whether they were a little more neglectful, we show up into relationship with that as our regulation system.

Right.

We don't know how to regulate. Some of us. Some of us will get really needy when we don't feel love, when we don't feel seen, when we don't feel appreciated, we'll cling, we'll ask for more. Others of us will completely close off. This is all based on patterning that's happened that is wired into our brains from day one. It's really hard to see and be seen. That's why these skills are so important. And I think about this as an emotional fitness practice.

Yeah, I was just gonna say that. I love the analogy because, like, for. As men, we understand physical fitness, right? If you want to go, get in the gym, it's gonna hurt. It's gonna be painful. We gotta go. And we're. When we're tired, you know, like, you gotta eat healthy. You got to sleep well, that's not pleasant. And the reward of going through physical fitness is mental clarity, confidence, strength, looking sexy. Right? The reward, it's worth it. Right? We must understand that. And so I love that analogy of using emotional fitness.

Well, we don't think about that, period. Like, we don't think about our relationships in the same way. We haven't yet. We haven't yet realized that the same way we treat our bodies and going to the gym is exactly what we need to be doing in relationship. You don't know what to do with the gym, you hire a coach, you don't know what to do in your relationship. Why would you bang your head against the wall trying to figure it out on your own? It's hard. It's hard to do a deadlift without the right technique. It's hard to do anything that I'm talking about without the right technique. But we haven't thought in order to be in healthy. Like, we would never think, oh, if I go to the gym for one week or one workshop or one listen to one podcast about going to the gym that we know how to do that. We would literally never think one week of going to the gym is going to get me fit forever. Why in the world would we think that listening to one podcast, reading one book is going to get us where we need to go to be in healthy relationship? It's just zero percent ever going to happen. Emotional fitness. Building these tools and skills is a daily practice, day in, day out. Some days you're going to nail it. Just like you go to the gym and you're like, oh, I just feeling it, feeling it. I'm feeling myself. And other days you're gonna be like, I got on the treadmill for five minutes and then I walked out. Yeah, I just couldn't do it. You're gonna do that too. You're gonna be messy. You're gonna mess up all the time. You're gonna be like, ah, I wanted to be curious and instead I was a jerk. Instead, I totally put my perspective in, but if you don't go through the mess, you're never going to get to the repair. So you have to be messy. Messiness in conflict is a necessary ingredient to get to repair. You get messy and then you learn to repair. You get messy, you learn to repair. And this is a natural cycle with humans. Connection, disconnection, repair. Connection, disconnection, repair. It's a natural cycle. We come out the womb, we're crying, we then get on our mom's boob. Oh, we feel Good. Again. Okay, great. Then there's a loud noise. Ah, we're crying and we're freaking out. Okay. Somebody puts us on their shoulder or takes us out of the room and we're okay. Connection disconnection, repair. But we often get stuck in connection disconnection, resentment, connection disconnect. Because we don't know how to repair because we're not ever taught that conflict is normal and so we avoid it or we just yell at each other, or we just keep our same patterns that we've had since we were kids that say, oh, it's in order to keep myself safe or to feel love. I'm just not going to speak my needs.

I love the analogy. I mean you're just dropping bars right now, but you talked. There was, there was analogy used about leg day.

Oh yeah.

Share that with existing. So, so good.

I said, when do you go to leg day and think, oh, leg day is going to be easy, right? Never. And if it is easy, you're doing it wrong.

Right.

It's the same thing in relationship. Why would you think, oh, I've never practiced this thing. So I'm gonna let you go first and go one at a time and that, that's gonna be easy and I'm gonna do it right. No, guess what? You're gonna suck. You're gonna do it really poorly the first time. You're probably gonna forget. But then little by little, you start to retrain yourself. Little by little you can lift 10 pounds and 20 pounds and 40 pounds and 80 pounds. That's it's the exact same thing. You're gonna suck first. In fact, you have to suck first.

You have to suck first. You have to sound like a nice skill.

Think about the first door you knocked.

Yeah, the first door I knocked, I sold.

But okay, not done. Not anybody else, any of the lay humans like me.

You know, the next couple days I struggled for sure and I thought about quitting. I got really lucky. First forever. The first store I ever touched, I sold.

Wow.

It's one in million. What are you know, as we kind of get wrap up here, you know, you do this work very intensely. You've seen it all. You've seen the blow ups, you've seen the chaos, you've seen the craziness. What for those that commit to this and work on this and fail. And work on it and fail and work on it but get better, how do you see those relationships change?

It's a great question. Well, I'll tell you, the amount of conflict doesn't necessarily change. But how quick they can repair does. And conflict doesn't become as scary because you know that you can repair. So when you get out of whack, when you get imbalanced, you're not so scared that it's never going to be that it's always gonna remain undone or that you're never gonna feel like your perspective is ever seen. You're like, okay, great, we're in this. But I trust because over time now I've seen example after example of us be able to get through this, that we're gonna get through it. There's a deeper trust and intimacy in the foundation of the relationship, not because there's less conflict, but because you trust one another to come back to each other in repair.

I envision, you know, as I'm, like, fantasizing about a future relationship, of the amount of emotional safety I would feel if I felt, like, conflict. I didn't feel that if we got into conflict, they were going to leave. It's like a big fear, like, oh, so that's why I avoid. Sometimes I don't want to get in conflict, because if we get in conflict, you're going to leave. And just. I just had this thought, this overwhelming feeling of, like, wow, what would it be like to have a partner when there was conflict, that they wanted to show up for it and they weren't going to run away.

It's. It's so such a common fear, and it's part of why we don't bring ourselves forward authentically in relationship, which is so harmful. One thing that I find that if you're Doug's partner listening to this, if you're Doug's future partner listening to this, wherever you are, whoever you are, that one thing that has really helped us is when we're in conflict, the first thing Emmy will say is, I want you to know I love you, and I'm not going anywhere. Starting with that one sentence is, like, so good, because then I can relax into, okay, we're just having a fight. This doesn't mean it's going to end the relationship, which I can catastrophize also, except my catastrophe looks different than yours. I don't hide myself. I bring myself. I bring myself in a really. I get disappointed and sort of cranky and like. Like, actually, a perfect example is Emmy. Emmy Will. Emmy and I have different stamina. She can go to event after event. And I'm. I'm not introverted, but I'm not extroverted in the way she is. So what used to happen Is she would go to events, and I would get really mopey. Like, she's not giving me enough attention. Right? So all of a sudden, I would go from getting all the attention to. We would go to an event, and her. I would. I. I would feel like squirrel energy. Like, all of a sudden, she was nowhere to be found.

See here just, oh, she's everywhere.

She's everywhere. And I'm like, wait a second, what about me? But I'm not saying that I get kind of mopey. I'm like, oh, do you want to stay longer? Cool. No, it's fine. You can stay longer. But it's definitely not fine that she stays longer. Right? That's actually what I mean. So very recently, she went to an event. It was a weekend event, and I didn't go. And I wrote her out a text at the beginning of. It was. This was new. This is. And, you know, we're years in and married. So just imagine how long it took me to get to doing this. I wrote her a text and said, hey, baby, I love you, and I want you to have the best time. Because Emmy, Emmy. Emmy wants her freedom. I want my safety, which is often the polarity in relationship. One person is fighting for the we. One person is fighting for the I. One person wants more freedom. One person wants more safety, right? So that's very common. So for us, I want more safety, she wants more freedom. And I know that. So I say, baby, I know. I want you to have what you want. I want you to have all the freedom this weekend. Here's how I want to help you win. Here's what you can do to show up for me this weekend that's going to have me feel so loved. When you text me before bed and you say how much you love me, like, that's a huge win. When you text me, when you wake up and just say, hey, I want you to know I'm missing you. If we talk on the phone, before you go into how exciting the trip is, if you can just say, hey, I miss you. This trip would be so much better if you were here. Can I tell you about some things that have happened? Right. Like, all of a sudden, my nervous system completely relaxes. This. This is what I mean about moving from independence to interdependence. Now I'm actually asking for what I need in a way that she can hear it. And she wants to show up for me, right? She wants to have a win. Last thing she wants is for her to go. Every time she goes away, she comes back and I'm mopey.

Yeah.

But I had to learn that over time to bring myself forward in a way that feels quite vulnerable. Because she wouldn't need that if I were gone. She wouldn't need the same thing. She wouldn't need me to check in. But I do. And so for me to get to the point where I'm saying, hey, I'm gonna vulnerably say the thing that I need has taken a lot of time to get there. It's also taken me a lot of time to know what I need. I know we're wrapping up, but I'll say this a lot of times at the request portion to make a request to state a desire to state a need. People, but especially women, have no idea what they want. They have no idea. So they might make a request and think that it will feel a certain way, but it actually doesn't do anything for the pain. The pain is still there. They might think what they need is a date night, and they ask for that. And then you have a date night, and they still feel the same disconnection. The problem. What hap. What generally happens is at that point, you on the other side are like, great, well, I did the thing. That's a win. And then they're over there still feeling disconnected, still feeling angry, still feeling whatever they're feeling, and you're like, wait a second, I just did the thing. Why aren't I getting a treat? Why aren't I getting a reward? Because you actually can't handle the fact that you're now dysregulated. And. And so. That's a. So. And this is where one person at a time comes into play. Now, when you get into dysregulation, you can't actually show up for your partner. I'll say one more thing about this, and then I will. I promise I'll shut up and let all y' all go.

Incredible. There's. Keep going.

Some people blame outward, and some people blame themselves, and it's often that we attract the opposition.

Share more about that.

So blaming outward might look like, I'm thinking, if I could. I'm driving down the highway, and somebody cuts me off, and I'm like, you're such a jerk. Why? Why do people drive that way? Right. Blaming inward might be, I'm driving on the highway, someone cuts me off, and I'm thinking, oh, did I just get in their way? Was I driving too slow or too fast?

Yeah.

You often attract the opposite. Not always, but you often attract the Opposite. Someone who's gonna blame inward. I blame inward. Will. Someone will attract someone who blames outward. Emmy blames outward. So a lot of the times it's, well, why didn't you do this? Right? Why didn't you do this this way? And I'm thinking, you're right. Why didn't I do it that way? For people who have negative self talk and who have high amounts of self beat up, your window of tolerance for anything critical is going to be so low.

Razor thin.

Razor thin. Because you. You don't. You're already beating yourself up so much that anything your partner says to you is going to feel like it just puts you over the top. So any complaint your partner has, even if the complaint is valid, you're not going to be able to hear because you. Your self talk is so bad that you can't stand one more ounce of negativity. So in that same example, you have a date night. Someone makes a request, they think it's date night. You plan a date night, you do the thing. Actually, that didn't make the pain go away. You're thinking, well, I try to do, like, I can't do anything right. If you were able to get curious, oh, that didn't work. Let's try something else. And then you collaborate. This is interdependence. You collaborate with your partner on what that could be. Because, by the way, your partner might not know. Then your partner feels they have this space to explore because that's all this is, is a giant exploration.

Yeah.

There actually is no roadmap.

It's like this co collaboration. It goes from, you know, you versus me to we.

That's exactly right. And all of a sudden, when it's we than the fight, it's you two against the fight.

Right.

Not me against you. You two are on the same side of the table. Whatever the problem is, is sitting on the other side of the table. And it's you two against that.

Bae, this is so good. I. I truly believe in my core that your best music has yet to be played on this earth. And you're onto something so big and so phenomenal, and this is so important. Where can people get more of Baya?

You can follow me on Instagram at bayavoce. That's B, A Y, A V, O, C, E. And that's pretty much the way that you can find me right now. I'll be giving talks. I'll be at south by this year. Maybe at Alchemy. I'm Alchemy's coach for people who are in relationship and alchemy. So your.

Your Instagram handle isn't bea the 801 player?

You know what? Maybe after this, I'll go change it just so people know who I really am. You know, I don't want them believing I'm, you know, I'm not that. Because obviously.

Well, thanks so much for joining us. This. This. I've worked personally with you in this experience with partners in the past. It's been impactful. It's changed the way I look at relationships. It's brought more peace and calmness and surety and confidence. And I just love you to pieces. And I appreciate you so much for coming on.

I love you, too. Thank you for having me.