Ep. 64 - Ben Sharf - Leaning Into Failure, Struggles Of Being An Entrepreneur, Finding Fulfillment

One of the things is a lot of people can never overcome the fear that you're talking about, and so they live a full life of just dreaming about what it could have been instead of actually trying it for themselves. Are you going to live a life that other people want you to live, or are you going to live the life that you want to live, even if there's an element of unknown going the path you want to go? It's scary. It's just about staying the course and understanding that every new day presents a new set of challenges. At the end of the day, again, it goes back to this con— this notion of like when you're on your deathbed, like The only thing that people are going to remember is how you made them feel.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The 1% Podcast. As always, I want to thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you guys for showing support. Thank you guys for showing love on every single episode. I have a guest with me today, Ben Sharf. He is co-founder of Platter. He is also co-host of Turning Pro Podcast. He's a good friend of mine. I met him through social media. Ben, how we doing today?

Doing well, man. I appreciate you having me on.

I appreciate you having me. This is a freaking sick studio, um, right in the base of Manhattan. Uh, but I kind of want to start off with— you were a former Division I athlete at Colgate, their hockey team, and I kind of want to know what was that like for you, which will segue into my next question.

I mean, I just think that, uh, for those who've played a Division I sport before, who understand what it demands from you both physically and mentally, I think it's a— it's an experience and an opportunity, honestly, that transforms you when you come out of it, to just basically know for yourself that you can put your mind to something and execute it. And I think it really— it allowed me to recognize when when you put a certain level of commitment into something and do it, it'll, it'll happen. You just have to stay consistent. And so for me, like, hockey goes back way before I got to Colgate. I think Colgate was the pinnacle for me of, of my hockey career because I decided to stop playing when I was done there. But I mean, I could go on for hours just in terms of like what I got out of it. I think after, after the fact, just looking back at all the things that, that came from it.

Yeah. What Because I, for me at least, I know a lot of athletes that have created their own business and they've gone on to entrepreneurship because essentially being an athlete, you are an entrepreneur. You're creating for yourself, right? You're creating your brand for yourself and you are refining your skills and you're getting better. Um, at least for me as an athlete, that's kind of how I would interpret it. You have to day in and day out get better at your craft in order to be able to be seen in front of Colgate or professional teams or any team in general. How has being an athlete helped you in creating your business?

I mean, it's, it's like a huge part of it.

It's—

I go back to this, I joke, I mean, look, we met because of Zach, but it really is about being obsessed with something. It's like going all in on something. I did— I played hockey for 20 years. Everything I did in my life was centered around hockey, like what I ate, you know, the people I spent my time with, how I spent my free time, like the level of commitment I knew I needed to give to it to be able to get to where I wanted to go. And I think once I stopped playing, I had all this energy as someone who was so used to devoting it into hockey that I had to figure out what was that next thing for me. So I feel like just translating that level of commitment that I learned over the years playing a Division I sport just then got refocused into starting a company. Yeah, it's the same level of obsession and commitment and sacrifice just in a new, in a new vein. And I think it's important that you find something that you wake up every single day excited by. That used to be hockey for me. And then once I left that world, it was about finding that new, that new identity, that new thing. And for me, I always wanted to start a company. And so I was able to just like take everything I learned and all that energy and just reshift it into now what I'm spending my time doing with building my company.

What was, what was the initial reason for kind of stopping your career, your athletic career? Was it just that it just came to a halt, or—

I had quite, quite an interesting, uh, ending to my career, to say the least. So basically, to give you kind of the quick backstory on it, I committed to Colgate when I was a junior in high school, got to Colgate, uh, my freshman year. I only played 8 games. I, at that point, to be honest with you, like, it was miserable. Because whether you play one game or every game, you're still required to put in the same amount of hours with practice and lifting and all the sacrifice. And so it's very easy when you're in a position like that to just question, is this really the best use of my time? Am I actually enjoying this? I for a minute, like, wasn't sure if I was going to keep playing. You know, I had really hard conversations with my— I'll never forget my assistant coach after my freshman year, him basically just saying, like, what your output right now is not enough to get you to where you want to go. Like, you need to take a hard look in the mirror and figure out, number one, if this is even for you. And number 2, if you want more, like, you have to give more. And so basically going into my sophomore year, you know, I had a really, really good offseason to try to just turn a corner. Got to sophomore year, played like 34 of 37 games, was still a depth guy, you know, wasn't playing that much, but started to play more games. It was a little bit more fun. Got to junior year, played every game, but still was, you know, third, fourth line guy at that point. I realized that hockey after school wasn't that viable. It just really wasn't good enough, to be honest. And so I started to think about what was life after hockey. I got a job my junior year of college at one of the big 4 consulting firms heading into senior year. My junior year summer, I just, because I had this job, I was like, you know what, like, I'm just going to go all in on this. There's no reason not to. I trained with my, one of my best friends who I lived with for 4 years, who's now in the NHL. Like, we got to school a month early. Really just took it to a whole new level. Senior year started, first 5 games we played, I was still a depth guy, but like playing every game, kind of had established my spot in the locker room and on the team as a senior. You get a level of respect with your coaches, with your peers, etc. After 5 games, I think we started 1-4 or 2-3. I went up to my coach after practice one day because in my mind I was like, fuck it, I have nothing to lose. And I, I looked at him and I was like, I'm gonna be honest with you, you need to just give me a chance on a line with Bob, who was our star player. I said to him, I was like, look, I, I know what makes this guy tick. I spend every second of the day with him. I know how he plays. I know you think I'm crazy, but just do it once. And if it doesn't work, like, I can live with it. He looked at me with 10 heads. He's like, okay, I'll think about it. I'll come back to you. He ended up putting us on a line together the next game. I never spent another minute away from him for the rest of senior year. I ended up tying him for the most points on our team at the end of my senior year. I signed with an agent, was talking to a bunch of teams, and basically over the course of this few months, everything had transformed for me where hockey was just this college activity that was ending soon into, wait, there's actually an opportunity here to maybe play after. It became more real every day. And then fast forward to the end of the season, we beat Brown in overtime in the first round of playoffs. And then 2 days later our whole season got canceled because of COVID So I went from this miserable experience as a freshman to then living out my childhood dream where, you know, every kid, every athlete dreams of being the go-to guy on their team, you know, who gets to go over the boards for the last minute of the game when they need a goal, whatever it is. I was living that and it was the coolest thing ever, and then it, it just got pulled out from under me right when I had it. And The hardest part of that for me, number one, was processing the fact that I didn't have closure, right? So I, I never won a championship at the end or lost and was able to process that closure. The closure for me was laying on the floor in my locker room with my best friends, basically just crying because we, we were doing well and we had no ending. And so that put a really bad taste in my mouth with the sport. I think we then didn't know for the next 8 months after when seasons were going to start, how much guys were going to get paid. And I ultimately just decided to close that chapter of my life and move on. But one anecdote that I'll share is we do this thing at Colgate called the Letter to Your Younger Self, where I was number 17. The incoming freshman who wore 17 got my letter. And on that letter I wrote, when someone says to you, play every game like it's your last, don't take it for granted because I played my last game and didn't know. Right? And so I think not having that closure and also just being really upset with how it ended, in addition to the uncertainty in the world, there were just so many factors that basically were telling me it was time to, to accept it for what it was. But it was, it was also time to move on to a new chapter in my life.

I often think about, uh, I had a conversation with one of my friends and he was talking about this thing called the butterfly effect. And you, you might have heard of it, but it's one thing leads you to another. And had your season may have not gotten canceled, I guess sitting here thinking about it, would you still be— would you be here right now? Like, would you have created the company? Would you have been at this position in your life had you been able to go on and play pro? Like, if that season happened, you might be in a completely different state. You might be a completely different person.

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a believer that everything happens for a reason. I'm also someone who loves to look back at the past and think about, you know, if I went left instead of right, how that one decision could change the entire trajectory of my life. Yeah, so it's absolutely not lost on me that every single thing has happened— that has happened is part of my story, and it's the reason I am where I am.

Yeah, you mentioned the, the Big Four. And when we went on our run that one time, you said that 2 hours before the first day you quit. 2 hours before the first day of your first day of the job that some people would be in awe over, or some people work their whole lives for, and 2 hours before you quit. What was that? What made you come to that decision? As we hear now, the 9 to 5 is you know, we all want to be bosses, or people want to be bosses, or they don't want to work in corporate, they don't want to work for another person. What kind of made you come to that decision, and what was the revelation that was like an aha moment for you that made you quit?

Yeah, so I had a— I had an interesting path with that as well, because essentially what happened when COVID hit, the company gave all the incoming analysts, uh, the opportunity to defer the job for a year because they didn't know it was going to happen to their own business. I knew that I was always interested in entrepreneurship, but I grew up in a traditional household. Colgate's a very competitive corporate school, you know, let's go get the best banking job or the best consulting job that you can. And I was a competitive kid, so I just fell into this hole of trying to go get it, and I got it. And then when COVID hit, when they gave us a year to defer, in my mind, I knew that I was always interested in entrepreneurship, but this was a unique opportunity because I could essentially take an option call where I could spend the next year tinkering on startups and doing whatever. And then if it all failed a year later, I could still go back to my job. So during that year, I joined an early-stage COVID testing startup that scaled to $50 million in 5 months. And that was an insane experience. I ended up leaving that company about a month before my first day at the new job, which, by the way, was at EY Parthenon. I mean, I have no shame in sharing it because it doesn't matter, affect my life at all. Anymore. But I left the COVID testing company a month before my first day at EY, and at that moment in time I had full intention of still going there. And then I was out in LA visiting my sisters, and a mentor of mine put me in touch with another mentee of his. He was like, you should go meet this guy. And I went and had breakfast with him, and we started talking, and he's like, what do you do? And I told him I was just working at a COVID testing startup, I'm gonna go work at EY. In a few weeks, spend a year there, whatever. And during that conversation, we were having just discussions about different people that we had in college. We had a lot of mutuals. I knew a lot of the things he was working on, etc. And he just paused and looked at me and he goes, would you have any interest in doing business development at GoPuff? And in that moment, I remembered that when I was in college, the reason that I wanted to get a job at a consulting firm was to basically spend 2 years working in a corporate position to then be able to go get a business development role at a high-growth tech startup. And so when he said that to me in the moment, in the back of my mind, I realized if this opportunity is real, why would I go one step back to go 2 steps forward when I can just skip this step of EY and go straight into the business development role? And so I said to him, I'm open to the idea, but my start date is literally in 2 and a half weeks, so it needs to be signed, sealed, and delivered before that if I'm gonna do it. And so I went through 7 rounds of interviews in 9 days, and they offered me 48 hours before. I countered 24 hours before, and we agreed like 12 hours before, at which point I told EY I wasn't coming anymore, and I ended up joining Gopuff.

Wow, that's interesting to— that's interesting to, to know that you were able to kind of skip that, that step and kind of put yourself in a, in a completely different position than when you initially started, you know, because the EY, obviously I've heard of it, but not many other people have heard of it. But I know that's a very good company and I know that a lot of people make a good amount of money. They probably make a good amount of connections. And for you to completely skip that step is, is kind of, it's kind of crazy to, to see how the trajectory of that kind of led you to the, the next thing. Um, in terms of becoming, uh, an entrepreneur, why, why did you feel like entrepreneurship was for you?

I don't do red tape. I wasn't the best rule follower when I was younger. I like to beat to my own drum. I like to be able to control my own destiny and bet on myself. I think it was every single sign was pointing to entrepreneurship as the thing that I should be doing, but It's also challenging when you grow up with a lot of people around you who are telling you that it's not necessarily the right thing that you should be doing, right? So then it just becomes a question for yourself. Are you going to live a life that other people want you to live, or are you going to live the life that you want to live? Even if there's an element of unknown going the path you want to go, it's scary, right? Starting a company is scary. There's no one there to catch you except yourself. And when you're giving up something that seems glamorous because it pays you a nice salary, it's stable, all those things, it makes it even harder to go the other way because it's different than some entrepreneurs who are in a situation where it's just back against the wall, no other option but to start their own thing, and they figure it out. I had the opportunity to go the corporate route and I still realized that it wasn't for me. And it really has a lot to do with just your personality and what, what's important to you and what makes you tick, right? Like, I I like to bet on myself. I love to work on things that I'm passionate about. And so it's very easy for me to wake up every day excited to work on my company. And I joke that when I was in college, I would get the Sunday scaries, like, oh, I have school tomorrow. And I feel like I had that same thought if I were to wake up on a Monday morning to go to a corporate job, like, oh my God, here we go, another week. I don't get that with my company. Like, I wake up every single day, 7 days a week, excited to build the things that I'm working on. And so I'm grateful for that.

Yeah. Uncertainty for a lot of people is, at least myself, I've tried to find the comfort in uncertainty. I'm not somebody who really likes the unknown, but I know that what I hear from a lot of people is that uncertainty is where the truth, where the success, where the, the best things happen. When you wake up the next day not knowing how the whole day can pan out or what can happen directly in that day, because you never know who you can see. You never know who you can meet. You never know what opportunities can lie. I think that if looking at it, if I never went to Zach's Monday runs, I don't meet Zach, I don't meet Ryan, I don't meet you. There's so many things that could have not happened in that, in that time span if I didn't show up at 7 in the morning, or I didn't wake up at 5 in the morning to go to Manhattan to go for a run, even though knowing that when we first had our run, my back was completely jacked up. And by the way, guys, he completely dusted me in our, in our 5-mile run. But a lot of things don't— they don't pan out, or they don't happen the way that they, they do if you don't lean into the uncertainty, if you don't lean into, well, what's going to happen next. And I know for sure, probably as an entrepreneur, every day leading up to where your company is now, you probably woke up, well, how is this going to happen? Or how is this going to work? Or how is everything going to come together? And I know that you could probably attest to this. There's probably a lot of nights you were up wondering, well, would this work out? Or would the thing that I'm trying to achieve— or the— from family, friends, from people telling you that it's a pipe dream, would it all work out? Would it all come together?

Yeah, but it's something that doesn't stop, right? There's always more to be done. There's always more reflection to happen. I think it's just about staying the course and understanding that every new day presents a new set of challenges. But beyond that, growth happens when you're uncomfortable, right? If you're staying in comfortable situations, you're not growing because you're not trying new things. You're not forced to be doing new things. And so I think I've always been someone that's— that seeks out uncomfortable situations because I'm a curious person and I want to try new things and and grow for myself.

Yeah, curiosity, it seems, uh, that is one of the, the key leading things in, in highly successful people that are incredibly curious. They wake up and, at least for myself, and maybe you can attest to this, you see uberly successful people and you kind of wonder, well, what if I put that much commitment into doing this? Or what if I worked as hard as maybe this person? Or when I did work hard enough, I saw that I got the fruits of my labor. And I think that I would like to know your thoughts on this. Do you believe that your curiosity has merely benefited your life, and is it the reason why you started to get into podcasting?

Yeah, absolutely. I think curiosity is a very common trait amongst entrepreneurs because people are trying to solve problems. They're curious to find problems and solve them. I think curiosity is also a reason that I got into podcasting, because I enjoy sitting down with interesting people, having interesting conversations, because I'm curious, right? It's, it's not, it's not an overly complex thing, but I don't— I also don't think it's something you can force onto someone. Yeah, right. I think I generally gravitate towards other curious people because it allows you to have very deep conversations and thoughtful discussions that aren't surface level.

Sure. You said this one quote, it was yesterday on LinkedIn, and it said, success is overvalued. Avoiding failure matters more. What did you mean by when you said that?

I think there's, there's a couple different ways to think about the way that you operate. And I think in the context of starting a company, default alive is kind of the mindset that, that I think about where chasing success. Yes, everyone does it, but in the context of building companies, like, those who stay in it long enough will eventually find success. People give up too early. And so I think the, the way that you avoid giving up too early is by avoiding failure, right? Failure can be— it's a proxy in the sense that it's different for everyone, but in the context of building a company, failure is like you ran out of money and you literally can't operate it anymore. So when you think about it from the perspective of what do we need to do to stay alive and not fail, that the byproduct of that is finding success, right? Because those are the opposites of each other. But I think from my perspective, it's figuring out ways to avoid failure, which then will help me lead to success.

What do you define as—

what do you—

what is your definition of failure?

I think failure for me personally is not accomplishing the goals that I've set out for myself. It's the challenging part about failure is it's a moving goalpost and it's always going to be moving because as you continue on in your journey, like there's just levels to the game and you're moving target continues to increase. And so I actually think failure is not a binary thing to me because at the same time, if you fall short with things, you still learn something from it and there's still benefits from it. But I think failure is a spectrum and it just depends how hard you are on yourself. It could be micro failures in terms of not doing something over the course of a day. Could also be failures over the course of different time horizons. You know, I look back at the end of this year and be like, did I accomplish everything I wanted to? Um, I think for me, I've actually tried to get better at not being so hard on myself around the concept of failure and understand that it's a process and that everything you do has an impact on what's going to happen in the present and the future.

Yeah. That's, that's interesting because I think a lot of people are afraid of failure because of the judgment that will be cast upon others. That the way that if I don't proceed with this or I don't achieve on what I said I would, how many other people would judge me for it? You know, when you're doing something that you love and you hold it very, very dear to your heart, there is, there is that little voice though that, that will say, well, what if, what if you do fail? And how would the failure impact your next decision? And it's, I guess, something that I've, I've often thought about is that we're so— we care a lot about what other people think, but we don't actually realize that not a lot of people are actually thinking about us. It's like when you walk in New York City, you're thinking that the next person to your right, if you're going to record a video, that they're going to be like, oh, who's this weirdo? Or who's this guy recording himself in the middle of the street? But not many people are actually worried about maybe what you're worried about, or not many people are actually thinking about you in that particular moment. And at least with now social media, it's promoting lifestyles in hopes of getting the validation of other people instead of getting the validation from yourself. And as we compare and contrast our lives to others, I think that's where we kind of judge ourselves, like, should I post this? Should I do this? Or which direction should I go in? You know, do I feel like a failure because I didn't— I promoted that I was going to achieve this and I didn't? You know, and I think social media has definitely created this negative mindset loop to try to impress or try to get the validation from other people?

Yeah, I think there's a couple things there. The first one, I have a Post-it note in my room actually on my, on my dresser that says regret hurts a lot more than failure. So I think one of the, one of the things is a lot of people can never overcome the fear that you're talking about, and so they live a full life of just dreaming about what it could have been instead of actually trying it for themselves. I think the second thing is that when you can grow into your authentic self and actually genuinely disregard what those around you are thinking, you just live a more fulfilling life. I think for me, I've realized when I started to get into content that the being vulnerable online and the content was really just a filter for me to recognize, like, who are the people in my life that are meant to be there who actually want to see me win and accept me for who I am? And then who are the people who just have an issue with everything I do, or are, you know, talking bad about you or judging you, those just aren't your people. And I think it's on you to course correct how you spend your time and who you spend your time with, because there are people out there that will accept you for who you are, and that allows you to get to a place where you, you're your authentic self every single day.

How has that, how's that kind of been for you in terms of as you started to become successful and as you are successful, how has that kind of been trying to take out people from your life And, and it's hard obviously to cut out people, but how important has it been to cultivate a circle that will ultimately be better for your growth and for where you want to go?

I don't think I've like intentionally sat down and been like, I'm going to cut this person out of my life. I think it's actually a very natural, um, separation in the sense that when you start doing different things, when your interests change, when the— your activities of choice change, when the topics you talk about change you'll naturally just drift from people who you're different from or who aren't meant to be in your inner circle anymore. I have a lot of friends who— we don't have any bad blood, we're just very different at this point. We're at very different stages of our life, and so we still respect each other. It's just they're not the first person I'm calling on a Friday night to see, you know, what they're doing. But for me, I think your inner circle is everything because you go through life and you'll have a lot of acquaintances But someone said this to me the other day, which was, how many of these people would be at your funeral?

It's a good one, right?

When you think about quantifying what does true friendship or true, you know, relationships mean to you, it's like, who, who's gonna be there when you're on your deathbed? And if you just kind of think about that in your own head, you realize that a lot of interactions and situations and relationships, they might add value to you in a transactional way, but there's far and few in between that are, are as genuine and as deep. And so I think it's just about recognizing the purpose of a relationship in your life, what it serves you, and how it fits into the picture. Because there's people that I meet that are meant to be lifelong best friends. There's people that I meet that are meant to be business partners, not necessarily best friends, but we do a lot of really good things together, and it serves another aspect of my life. But relationships are complicated when you actually try to dig into it and understand them.

Yeah, I saw that you, you talked about that a little bit on your LinkedIn the other day where you said that you trying to cultivate meaningful and lifelong relationships and friendships. And especially in this journey when you're trying to create something bigger than yourself, it's incredibly hard to kind of find your tribe and find your group that will ultimately help you get to that level or get to that stage. And sometimes it's not— I still have some of the— I still have two really good friends that I have from high school, but most of the people that I've came in contact with were once I moved to Brooklyn or once I moved to the city. And I think that if you have lifelong best friends or you have those people that, that have been there through thick and thin, and you have been there through the hard and the good times. I think that it's incredibly important to— as long as they respect you and as long as they still value that friendship, to keep them. But it seems like it's the, the people that you meet along the way in your journey that really help you get to the pinnacles that you want to reach.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think every relationship serves its purpose, and it's kind of on you to figure out what that purpose is.

Yeah. What has it been like for you in terms of creating the company? What has it been— you been like for you on your worst days?

On my worst days, I mean, starting a company is a roller coaster ride every single day regardless. You know, the highs are really high and the lows are really low. I think it's everything from calling my co-founder and being like Dude, this company is not going anywhere. This is an absolute bust. To other days where like, holy shit, this is real. I think you recognize that part of the entrepreneurial journey is that the highs are highs and lows are lows. So it's on you to try to like stay even keeled and understand that there are headwinds that happen and you have to just manage those and not lose sight of like the bigger picture. Because I, I think that you can get caught up in situations that you shouldn't. And I, I don't remember the exact quote, but I, I saw a graph the other day that basically had two pictures next to each other, and one of them was basically like a line that goes from, you know, the bottom left up into the right, and it's like it moves. And then the one— the picture on the right was just a line going straight down. And what the picture said was like, the one on the right was today, and the one on the left was like the, you know, the last 365 days. So it's like You might have had a really bad day today where you feel like everything is going to the— going to the ground, but rock bottom today is a lot higher than what rock bottom was 12 months ago because you've been making growth. But like, growth isn't always linear, right? Like, there's— there's ups and downs in everything that you do. So it's just not losing sight of the bigger picture.

Where does that motivation come from, that regardless of how bad it could get, that I'm going to be able to pick myself up and dust myself off?

Um, I'm largely driven by the fear of failure. I think I'm kind of someone who just won't stop until I get to where I want to go. And I also don't necessarily think it's a healthy thing, but I acknowledge it because I say I won't stop till I get to where I want to go, but where I want to go is a moving target. Yeah, but I just have this level of competition within myself a lot of times just to prove myself right. It's like I want to do this thing, like I'm going to go prove to myself that I can do it. It's like there's nothing that can get in your way except you.

What would— I kind of, I thought of something. What would you say would be your dark side? Like, what is something that you don't really tell people often, but it seems that it's a, it's this little voice or this little person in your head that, that tells you all of these maybe dark things or negative things?

I think it's insecurity.

Yeah.

Right? Like, I have that voice in my head that says you're not good enough, you're not strong enough, you're not successful enough, you're not all the things that then force you to try to go be those things that that voice tells you that you're not, even if they're not real, right? Like, a lot of people struggle from a voice in their head, hence the dark place, of just what, what is the thing telling you no, or it's not possible, or you're not good enough And how do you counteract that? I think, like I said, I'm— I am driven by failure. Like, the fear of failure is definitely something that I'm driven by. And I think because of that, it's very hard for me to, to sit still and be complacent because there's always more. And you're kind of— look, it's a zero-sum game. I think I always say this, that one of the most common traits, in my opinion, of high performers is insecurity because they are insecure about not being enough, whatever that means to them. And so they're always trying to get more, but that's just like an endless game.

Right?

Like, why do you think there's a lot of founders who sell a company for a lot of money who then just go right back into the, into the dark place of building another one? Or you think Elon Musk has to work anymore? Like, of course not, but there's more to it. It's like impact and it's wanting to do more and be more. And so I think you have to just be in tune with yourself in terms of like, what is the outcome?

Mm-hmm.

Because I think when it's a combination of financial outcome, social outcome, uh, fulfillment, there's always going to be a piece that you feel is lacking that you're going to try to fulfill. And because of that, it's just like you continue down that path.

But is it ever enough though, you know? Like, is, is the thing that you're— the utopia that is in your mind, is it ever enough? Because in the podcast game at least, or yeah, you can make more money or you can interview more people, but is it anything that will ever make you secure in yourself?

I don't think the path to feeling secure is accomplishing like a tangible goal, but rather it's just an evolution of your mindset of how you approach every day of every day and in life of like accepting that you are enough and that there will always be more, but that shouldn't be the thing that makes you feel like not enough.

Yeah.

Right? It's something that I actually talk about with my therapist all the time, where I'm someone who's so stuck on the destination that I don't really enjoy the journey. But the problem is that the destination's a moving target. So you think you're going to get some sort of dopamine hit or fulfillment by hitting that destination, but right when you get there, it moves, and you never actually were fulfilled. And it's just this endless game that never ends.

Yeah, I definitely struggle with that as well, because I always think, well, what, what else could I do more like, what else could— what else could I do more? And what does more look like? And when is the distinction between being okay and satisfied with where I'm at instead of trying to compare myself to the version of myself 3 months ago or even 3 years ago? You know, it's like— and I'll be honest, obviously I I promote, you know, becoming 1% better every day. But there's a lot of times where I don't feel like I've grown at all. And I think that that's something with growth that is incredibly hard to digest is when you're so— when your head is down and you're focused so much on the journey of becoming better every day that you never realize how much you've actually grown until you sat and thought about it, until you've turned off your phone, until you're isolated from the world, until you're just sitting there by yourself. And it's hard to get rid of that, that little voice or that little mind that says that you're not enough and you're not doing enough or you're not reaching the heights that you want to reach. And I think really to combat that, I think you have to be in stillness. I think that you have to practice some sort of meditation, whether it's running whether it's working out, whether it's just being still in your thoughts and allowing yourself to kind of take yourself away from— okay, maybe 3 years ago I was at a different point than where I'm at now, but it's kind of quieting and silencing that noise, that extra static in your brain that's not allowing you to appreciate and accept yourself for where you are at now.

Yeah.

It's—

I, you know, I wish I had an answer for it because it's something that I, I still deal with every single day.

Yeah.

So I think it just becomes how do you channel it and manage it versus solve it, right? It's not that easy.

Yeah. What is— you said that it's an insecurity that, that you've been trying to combat. Where do you think that that insecurity came from?

I think it probably came from the fact that like growing up in my childhood, I was always expected to just like be the perfect child, right? It was like get the good grades, be the star athlete, be the popular kid. Like you could do no wrong. And then you kind of get to this place where you hold yourself to this level of a standard, uh, where you don't want to let yourself down or other people around you. And so because of that, you're always trying to push the boundaries on what's possible. And then if you fall short of that, you feel like a failure. So then you push yourself to keep, keep going and to do more.

Yeah.

Um, I also just think it's probably a function of, you know, having a lot of opportunity when I was younger. Like, I'm very fortunate. I, I came from a really good upbringing and I think not wanting to like go backwards is really important to me. Yeah, it's like you were given everything you wanted and needed, like now make something of it.

Do you think you're a perfectionist?

Fuck yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, it's— yeah, I mean, I think striving for perfection isn't a bad thing. It's more just recognizing that actually achieving it is not real, but it's like getting— it's like getting closer to it. You know, it's an endless game. It's— it kind of ties back everything we've talked about in terms of recognizing that there's no actual final destination other than your deathbed. And so it's figuring out how do you just learn to appreciate and enjoy and be thankful for the present instead of always being so caught up in the future.

Yeah. How has your life been affected by the business that you've created in terms of friendships and relationships?

I mean, you'll probably get a great answer from those closest to me on that, on that question, but it— I mean, it definitely has taken a toll on a lot of relationships because I only have so much time to allocate outside of it. I think naturally I've drifted from some people, but there's others who recognize that we don't talk as often, but that doesn't have any sort of that does— that's not a representation of, of the relationship. Um, I think for a long time I struggled with being present, and it's something that I still work on every day where I try to tell myself and internalize that everything doesn't need to be done yesterday. So, you know, that email can wait, that phone call can wait. When you're at dinner with your family, you don't need to be sitting there responding to the Slack message. Like, it really can wait. And I think, uh, not being present has been a big issue for me. And then I think— and yeah, that, that has been like the underlying one, because when my mind is somewhere else, it's very hard for me to appreciate and internalize. And then the other piece of it too is that it's very hard sometimes to do things or engage in conversations when your mind is telling you to go do something else, right? Like, love my parents to death, but it's like if my mom calls me at 2 PM on a Tuesday and I just got off 4 calls and have to send 3 proposals, it's really hard for me to actually, you know, have that conversation. It's not a good thing. There's people who can do it, and I think I, I wish that I was better about it in terms of just like actually understanding what priorities are and, and how to, how to combat the fact that there'll always be more to do. And so you should cherish the little things in life a little bit more than you do. But again, it's just, it's an evolving thing that I'm continuously trying to work on. And, you know, to the message that you're trying to share, it's like getting 1% better every day.

What is something, uh, I mean, it's good to hear that another, another man is in therapy because I feel like more men need to go to therapy.

Oh, therapy is dope. For anyone listening who wants, who's thinking about it, like, do it.

I, but it seems to be a very, like, you have to find, it's kind of like a relationship, you have to find the right person that'll bring the certain things out of you. In terms of digging at or trying to stab at the things that might be troubling you? What is— what has therapy meant to you and what is something that you're currently working on in therapy?

I would say the best way to describe therapy for anyone listening who's curious is it's the one relationship in your life with someone who has no preconceived notions of who you are, and it's a sounding board for you to talk to with no judgment, right? Your family, your friends, your colleagues, your significant others— all the experiences that they've endured with you or have watched you frames the way that they think about you. And so there's, there's no relationships in your life that have like a true unfiltered, unapologetic receptiveness to things you want to talk about, even if they want to. Like, the subconscious doesn't allow it. Whereas a therapist is someone who, when you meet them for the first time, they're taking in the information you're providing them and they have no other context. And you have to be willing to be vulnerable to allow them to fully understand you, to ask you the right questions, to provoke you to think about the things that are maybe bothering you, or helping you to reframe your thoughts to come to solutions or conclusions that maybe you were struggling with, which is why you got into therapy to begin with.

Has that been— has it been hard for you to be vulnerable to other people?

Um, I would say there's levels to it. I would definitely consider myself a vulnerable person, generally speaking, but I think the level of vulnerability that I share with certain people varies. But I would say broadly on the spectrum, I'm probably more vulnerable than, than your average person.

What do you— what's your thoughts on, uh, this whole I didn't really have a question in, in terms of this, but after having this conversation, what's your whole thoughts on toxic masculinity?

I mean, I don't, I don't really have a strong opinion on it. I just think the only thought I have is that social media is like a really dangerous— it's really dangerous like platform for people to look at because you're, you know, most people on social media are trying to convey this version of them that is perfect. And then when you relate to just toxic, toxic masculinity, a lot of people's behavior is a function of what they witness of others around them, right? So I think it's a perpetual cycle that becomes like toxic, hence the term. But I don't know, I don't really have like a strong opinion on it because I don't really engage in it that much, to be honest with you. Yeah, at least consciously.

Yeah. I mean, it's good to know that, um, it's good to know that there's— I would consider myself a pretty much vulnerable person. It's good to know that there's other vulnerable men out there that will share their experiences or share the things that they've been through, because it's good to know that you're also a human being too, right? Because you see, anybody that comes to your profile on Instagram would be like, well, is this person matching up who they are in real life?

You know what I mean?

Like, are they actually as personable, or are they as, um, do they have humility, you know? And I think that that's one of the first things that I noticed about you is how incredibly, how incredibly, how you are a human and not just somebody that's, you know, when they have this notoriety, that they're very personable. And we, after the, the run that day that we went, went and got coffee, we had a conversation, and you even during the run, you know, you were prepping for your marathon, but you still had time to, to conversate with me and kind of get to know more about you and about each other. But I think that that was the one thing that I noticed about you, which, um, it lets me know that no matter how successful people may be, they still have that human side to them as well.

Yeah, I mean, you can't, you can't forget where you came from. I think that's a really important thing. It's It's easier said than done, but I don't know. I saw someone said this to me one time, which was like, at the end of the day, again, it goes back to this con— this notion of like when you're on your deathbed, like the only thing that people are going to remember is how you made them feel. Like everything else goes out the window.

Yeah. And I would also say that it's more of the service that you gave to others as well, because not many people will really understand or Not many people will care about the money that you made, or the money won't even get— money won't even get buried with you as well.

Yeah, and I think the service you give to others is a function of how you make other people feel.

Yeah. Speaking of marathon prep, how is that— how's that been going for you?

It's good. It's round 2. Um, the first marathon I did, I had never run more than 5 miles at once in my life until 12 weeks before the marathon, and I when I had my fitness crisis post-hockey, I was like, what am I going to do? And I woke up, I was like, I'm going to run a marathon. Destroyed my body doing that. I kind of just willed my way through it. But this time I got a coach and I'm doing like a more proper program because I have a more ambitious goal to actually break a time this, this time around. It's good. I really enjoy it. I think having a coach has been game-changing for me because as an athlete my entire life, having coaches just telling you what to do, the part I loved about hockey and just athletics and fitness in general was my job was to show up and work hard. When you try to do it on your own, then you have to bring in all this thinking of what am I going to do, when am I going to do it, etc. So bringing back that element of having a coach where I just look at my workout and it's go do it and do it well, it's been so much easier that way. And so I'm, I'm excited about this. I mean, look, I'm still a couple of months away, but it's ambitious. So I think it's, it's nice to have, have an ambitious goal to strive for.

What have you learned about yourself?

Through running.

Yeah.

I learned that I am someone who seeks chaos in every situation, whether I like it or not. And so the ability to not wear headphones anymore when I run, it is like the one activity in my life that brings me to a place of peace. And I joke about this all the time, even with myself. I'm not sure if I actually like running or I just like how running makes me feel in the act of doing it because it allows me to resolve so many thoughts in my head. Because it's the one place where I'm not being hit by, you know, 50 different angles and I can process things. Because if I'm not on calls all day, I'm finding ways to be around people physically or on my phone with my digital friends. It's so easy to just fill your day with distraction. I'm not someone who really can sit still for very long. It's something I'm trying to work on. But I think one of the things that my therapist has said to me is don't, don't try to just like fit yourself into this mold that you think you're supposed to be, but rather just like learn about yourself and figure out what works for you. And so while it would be great to just sit and meditate every day for 30 minutes, like if my form of meditation is just running with no headphones to be in this place of calmness and peace in my mind, like that That works for me.

Is that— is that why you created the diary of, of Instagram videos, to kind of let other people know what you're thinking?

Yeah, because it's the one place where I'll just like have thoughts that come up that I never— that's like my form of journaling. I'm almost doing it in like a digital format for myself. Yeah, I think part of creating too, and a lot of the biggest and best creators will tell you this, that like you need to create for yourself, um, in order to be able to create for others. Because if you don't genuinely enjoy it or are proud of what you put out, like, I think that feeling of self-doubt radiates onto others. And like, it's very easy to tell if you're doing things for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, we talked about end goal a lot. What, what is your— what is your end goal? Like, where, where do you want to be in 5 to 10 years? I know that's such a cliché saying, but, but what's your end goal?

Yeah, I have a, I have a couple. I think the biggest one is to not have to look at a receipt. Uh, and I also think it's two things, right? It's that, and it's also just to have full control over my time. Like, I want to be able to spend my time how I want to at the expense of nobody. And so to be able to have financial freedom and social freedom, it allows you to really be intentional about the people you spend your time with, the things that you do. And continuing to just like go down this path of, of exploration. I think my biggest fear is being in a situation where for whatever circumstance that might arise in my, in my life prevents me from like doing the things I want to in that moment.

Yeah.

Hmm.

What is something that you want to grow 1% better in this year?

Being present with those around me.

Besides running, is there anything that you've been— that you've tried to pick up on that, that will help you reach that or attain that goal?

I try to sit still for a couple minutes every day. It sounds crazy, even for 5 minutes. Um, I think another one is limiting the amount of meetings that I do in a day, because I think when I stack my calendar with meetings, it sends my brain into a place of chaos because there's oftentimes things that— action items that come out of these meetings and those compound complete like in a very drastic way. And so I think it's, uh, limiting that as well in also recognizing and internalizing and practicing on a micro level whatever it takes to really understand that everything doesn't need to be done yesterday. Because I think I'm not present because I'm so anxious about getting everything done. But again, it's a perpetual cycle. You'll never actually get everything done.

Yeah, that's all the questions that I have for you. Um, I want to say thank you for giving me your time and thank you for sitting down with me and getting to know one another. Um, definitely would love to do this again in the future. Um, where can the people find you on Instagram or social media?

Yeah, you can find me at Ben Sharf, uh, B-E-N-S-H-A-R-F, on all socials. Um, and then my company website is platter.co. It's P-L-A-T-T-E-R.co. And my podcast is called Turning Pro.

Thank you again for your time. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you guys for your support. Thank you guys for your love. This is the 1% Podcast. I'm out.