3 Critical Elements Of Parenting, How Ben Nearly Got Divorced, Why Families Need Love Languages

One of the things I love so much about homeschooling is that I can weave and we can weave the truth of who God is into every aspect of education, whether we're talking about science and how animals are created, or we're talking about nature and what's outside. Even concepts around math and numbers. Like all of that was created by him. So in our homeschooling routine, we're were reading through, I'm reading through the Bible with my kids. I'm asking them, what did you get out of that? Did you hear anything that spoke to you? And when we first started doing that, it was actually recommended to me by a curriculum that I use. And I was kind of like, are they really going to get anything? Like, are they going to get anything? If I'm reading out of the Old Testament, is anything going to really resonate with them? Because when we started this, they were like 7 and 5. But the things that they would get, the things that they would pull out.

Were like shocked.

It would surprise me.

Well, folks, I'm excited about today's show because my guest, he's actually been on the show before. He is a dear friend of mine.

I've known him.

Gosh, Isaac, how long have I known you? For like a decade, Maybe more.

I think a little bit more than that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, all I remember is you came.

To my house and nearly kicked my own butt on my own obstacle course.

During like a business mastermind that we had at my house.

And I was like, oh, this dude not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk.

And I know you have a real background in athleticism and sports as well.

But you came on my podcast to talk about chronic fatigue and hidden causes of fatigue that most doctors don't know about and, and won't test for. And that was a great episode. I'll link to that in the show notes. By the way, anybody who wants to access the show notes, they're going to be@BenGreenfieldLife.com JonesFamily. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com JonesFamily so I'll link to that first podcast that Isaac and I did, but Isaac has been coined by Jeff Arnold, who's the founder of WebMD.com as the doctor of the future. And that's because he's kind of pioneering the future of healthcare. Uh, he's the founder and CEO of Health Experts alliance, which is a company that kind of educates forward thinking doctors and health entrepreneurs to build a predictably profitable freedom creating businesses so he, he basically coaches people in health how to do well, how to, how to make money, basically with what they're doing in a very creative way. And he has these events all over the world and he's a very passionate guy, as you're about to find out.

Not only about health.

Health, but about family and community and God and all these other things that.

Of course, way more important than just.

The money making side of medicine. Now here's what's interesting. I grew to know Isaac and then also discovered that he is a dedicated father and husband. He's the father to three sons and one daughter. And he and his wife Erica live in Atlanta. And after having a few conversations with Isaac about parenting and about family, I decided that I wanted to feature Isaac and Erica in my book, Boundless Parenting.

They graciously agreed.

And so they have a fantastic chapter in Boundless Parenting. So good. In fact, I want to get them on the show today to discuss a lot of their concepts around family and health. Isaac and I will probably have a little bit of time at the end also to talk to you about some of the other things that he's up to in the realm of health. So I suppose if you don't care about families or kids or parenting or any of these other important things at all, just fast forward to the end or sit here bored the rest of the time. I'm also excited because Erica, Isaac's wife, decided to join us.

So, Erica, what's up?

What's up, Ben? It's good to see you.

Yeah, it's good to see you too. And you and I obviously had a chance to talk as much as Isaac and I have, but. Okay, so I gotta ask you guys this because I know that parenting is important to you. Kids and family are important to you, but you're also, you also care about your health. So I'm just wondering for you guys what your own health optimization routine look like this morning. Literally this morning leading up to this podcast.

Because you look great for anybody watching.

The video, you know, your hair's done, you look fantastic, you look healthy, your skin is glowing. So tell me what you did.

Was it the raw liver smoothie, the.

Coffee enema, the red lights and various orifices?

Or.

I mean, I don't know if you want to start.

Well, I'm just going to. I'll be transparent. I've been expressing a little bit of health because I've been traveling. I just got back from Tokyo, Japan, and my body just took a little bit of hit from some of the Ways I've been pushing it lately. So if I could share maybe what I do traditionally today, I just let my body sleep in and then I.

You can pick the perfect day. I just think that's all right.

I just gotta be real, you know, But. But yeah, like Eric and I have great routine and typically when I wake up in the morning, I go. I get up, go to the washroom, you know, and then I put on the dab, which is daily audio Bible. And I listen to scripture while I'm brushing teeth. I wash my face while I'm naked in front of a red light.

Joov light.

And then I go into my closet. I've got a vision board there. I will either kind of intend the day or premeditate what I'm going to create in the day. Or.

I've been off and on doing the, the five minute journal. I may do the five minute journal and I'll typically do some sort of short meditation or depending on how much time I have, a longer meditation. And then I'll kind of pre create what the day will look like in my mind's eye. And then I'll go downstairs and start making breakfast for the kids. Like this morning I made some really great.

Bacon, eggs, some hot sauce. Yeah.

So, you know, you'd be popular in the Greenfield house. My son's a huge bacon eggs fan. Bacon eggs. I think this morning was a. Was a Dutch baby.

Oh, nice.

Yeah. Which is not a literal human Dutch baby, but it's some kind of an egg contraption, a pan that they make.

Oh, dude.

So you're doing all of this on a typical morning. But, so, so Isaac, are you. Are you carving out time when you first get up then to kind of like, you know, connect to God, listen to the Bible, care for self before the rest of the family is up or family all tooling around doing their own things while you're, while you're prepping for the day?

No, no, I, I like to prep myself and get myself dialed before. Normally the kids and everyone is, is. Is up and at them, but the kids are getting up earlier and earlier now. So there I find them downstairs, like, you know, this morning it was raining outside. I come downstairs and I'm like, oh, everyone's still in bed. I look outside and they're outside running around in the rain, you know, so they're playing out in the rain, all soaked, which is funny, but, you know, that's not typical. But, but they'll be up and, and drawing and, you know, reading and doing other things. Even before we're up sometimes. But what about you, babe?

I mean, I don't. I don't have the luxury of a long, you know, meditation and all this in the morning. So I just try to stack my night routine so that I get my best sleep because when I get up, I'm. I gotta hit the ground running with the kids. So I put a lot of emphasis on the night before. So, like last night, we did the sauna, we did a shower. After that, most nights I'm doing something relaxing. I'm in a bubble bath. I'm stretching. I'm just. I'm doing everything I can. I do it every night.

I assume that that's after the kids go to bed, you light up the bath.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do that after the kids go to bed. I'll, you know, I'll read my Bible before bed. So my night routine is really dialed and that gets me the deep sleep I need so that when I get up in the morning, I'm. I'm ready to go with the children.

You do you stretch regularly?

Yeah.

You do essential oil breathing. And then another thing we do before bed is the myofascial work.

Yeah, chiropractic.

What's the myofascial work? Really? You adjust your. Well, I. I should have mentioned, by the way, to folks like you're. You're a pretty talented chiropractic doc, and, and know your way around the body pretty well. So you're. You're doing the myofascial work like every night with Erica.

Every night we do it.

It's just like.

What's that? What's that look like?

He rolls out. You've seen. I wish I had one in here. It's the.

I think we did, actually.

It's like this, but it's a big, you know, the big rollers. You roll your muscles.

Okay.

You roll them on that.

Oh, yeah, yeah. You just held up, like, it like a small foam rolling type of device that you're, like, applying to her body.

Yeah, well, he mostly rolls. We roll.

We roll on. On. On these different, like, lacrosse ball or, you know, or, Or a myofascial kind of roller.

If I need to get like a trigger point, then I'll use the back number two. It like breaks down. You can put in your suitcase for when you're traveling, but it's just like a little thing that you can get like certain trigger points in your back or your legs or something like that.

But rapid release we use as well.

I find when I'M Eric and I compete against each other on our oura ring at night. So, you know, so I find that I can, I can if I myofascial release and do some deep breathing and I follow that nighttime routine that she's dialed in really well, that I usually get a lot more deep sleep and a lot more quality sleep. And I'm always getting those crowns.

You know, this is interesting. So after the kids have gone to.

Bed, you guys are literally in the.

Bedroom like making love to foam rollers and lacrosse balls and all manner of medieval torture.

Myofascial muscles, dude, it actually feels amazing. And I'll be right real. Like this girl is, is a systems oriented person when she's gone traveling. Like things, like things don't go as well for my night for my nighttime routine. Like I need her, you know.

Oh, I, I totally agree. My wife was just playing at tennis for me over the weekend. I sleep horribly when my wife is gone. I'll prop up a bunch of pillows to simulate like the snuggling that I usually do with her just so I almost feel like I've got a human body to hold. I lay there like staring at the ceiling because I don't have anybody to talk to or pray with or any of the other normal things we do before we go to bed at night. So yeah, I get it. Like I depend on my wife heavily for my nighttime routine. And similar to you guys, like I've got this elaborate morning routine, but for my wife, for her, because a lot of times she is sleeping in, prepping for the day with the suns in the morning. Like she does a lot more of her self care in the evening. You know, like hot yoga and stretching and walking, things like that. So it's interesting how the, how the schedules parallel. How did you guys actually meet and marry?

It's a good question. I had a patient who lost 70 pounds and she just was peppering me to come to her church. And she was like, you don't understand, it's so amazing. And I looked at it on Waze and I was like so far away. I don't know if Waze existed at the time. So it might have been Google Maps or something. But I looked at it and it was like an hour away from where we were. And so she was persistent for like three months. Like she loved me. I got great results with her as a patient, but in my functional medicine program. But she just like was begging me to come out to this church. So I appeased her one Sunday and I was like, all right, I'm going to go to this church. And I go to the church, I sit at the back, I wave hello to Ellen. I'm like, hey, I made it. And I was going to slip out, and then who do I sit next to but this guy named John who did the exact same thing that she did to me, where he got my number, and he just starts calling me up every single day and was like, you need to come to this young professionals ministry. And so I'm like, what is it with these people from this church? It is crazy. And eventually I went to this call group. Yeah, exactly. It was a fun church. Really, really good, multicultural church, downtown Orlando, where I was doing my residency. And. And I went to this small group, and what do I arrive at? This small group, and it was like, two dudes and, like, 20 hot girls, you know, And Erica was leading the group. And I was like, this is amazing. You know, I'll definitely drive two hours or however long I need to, to get here. But literally, I walked through the door, I thought to myself, like, I want to marry this girl. And as I heard her depth of wisdom and knowledge just around life, around spirituality, just how intelligent she was, I was like, all right, this girl, I mean, this is amazing. And so we became best friends after that. And she was intimidating to me, though, because she worked for GlaxoSmithKline, which was, like, one of the largest pharma companies. And I would do presentations about just how evil, like, pharma companies are and how, like, natural health is the way to go. And so I actually tried to hire her at first, and they were paying her too well that we couldn't hire her. We couldn't afford to hire her. We could, but, like, the doctors and I were like, it's a stretch. And so anyways, I ended up marrying her instead, and she ended up being the CEO of my company. So.

So. So. So you're the. You're the. You said the CEO or the CEO of Isaac's company, Erica.

I'm the integrator. Which would parallel more to a coo.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you guys run things, I. I assume by saying integrator on the. On the entrepreneurial optimization system. Gina Wickman's book, Traction.

Exactly.

That's fantastic. Can you describe those people real quick, by the way? Because the reason I ask that is because I've always thought that with a married couple, that entrepreneurial optimization system could work really well if one person is the visionary and the other person has the desire to be in operations. Or the integrator. We don't do that in terms of the Greenfield family and the way we operate. Because my wife absolutely hates business and numbers and operations and management. And I'm a big visionary. And so if I handed things off to her, she's the type of person, when you turn on her phone, she's got like the 26 UN listened to voicemails and 100 text messages and everything's got notifications that haven't been looked at because she just doesn't care about any of that stuff. So for us, it wouldn't work well. But for you guys, describe how you integrate this entrepreneurial optimization. What's it called? The eos? Entrepreneurial Operations. Is that what it's called?

Yeah, it's Entrepreneurial Organizational system.

Yeah, organizational system. That's right.

I would say at the beginning of our relationship, we. We immediately saw that he. I immediately saw he was very gifted with vision, similar to you, Ben. Extremely influential. Just has like that woo factor, can build relationships quickly. And I was like, okay, I can take that vision and help him execute all the behind the scenes things that he's naturally not inclined to do, like numbers and spreadsheets and systems and process and these are all things that I'm naturally very inclined to do. So we saw that immediately when we got together. But I think at the beginning of our relationship in those first few years, we didn't have.

Enough appreciation for each other's unique giftings. So we would butt heads a lot over different things.

We didn't have the. We didn't have the rocket fuel understanding of what an integrator visionary was. So my visionary mind would like literally hit her integrator, kind of let slow down and create a system mind. And it was challenging, honestly, but it was good because she built the foundation for what later became a multimillion dollar enterprise. But, you know, now we're kind of coming back into this fold where she has a full understanding of what a visionary does. She's actually a really gifted integrator. Like her inner spirit child is like a spreadsheet. You know, she loves numbers, she loves like all of the details of all these different things. So it's exciting to be able to come kind of full circle to a place where she's like, wow, like I can really add a lot of value to you and we can work together as an integrator visionary.

System. And that's what Gino Wickman calls the rocket fuel that allows for companies to really grow rapidly. And so do you want to just share what an integrator is compared to a visionary.

So, I mean, integrator is someone that's looking at operations, making sure the company's profitable, is a leadership team executing on what the vision is. Are people held accountable? Are the systems and processes in place for the team to succeed and excel? And are we sticking to the business plan that we've laid out so that we can grow, that the visionaries laid out so that we can grow? So I think all of that combined with us growing and maturing in our marriage, we're going on 13 years this year. We now have a different level of respect for each other around our unique giftings that allows us to come to the business relationship differently than we did before because we would just get mad at each other before.

Yeah.

Yeah, I actually wanted to ask you that because this is something my wife and I, for a little while, we ran the Ben Greenfield Fitness Inner Circle, which was like a membership website where people could access my wife's cooking tips and meal plans and, and home advice and gardening tips, etc. And I dish out the fitness and the nutrition advice. And we had like a, we had a monthly PDF and you know, inner circle videos and everything. And there'd be at least three or four nights of the week or various points throughout the day where we would fight. It was mostly like, babe, did you get this email or this task done? And she'd be like, wait, what email? What task? Oh, you mean that thing you told me five weeks ago? No, I was going to get to that at some point. Thank you for reminding me. And we just fight and fight about this stuff and eventually I realized the heartache involved, at least for us being married and in business together wasn't worth it. But for you guys, do you actually have conflicts? And if so, how do you resolve those?

Oh yeah, I mean, we don't as much anymore, but I mean, some of the conflicts that we've had have been a lack of understanding of each other's gifts. And I think the more that we've dug deep into personality assessments and the Colby analysis, K O L B E to understand that I'm a quick start, I like to start things fast. I'm a visionary, I like to think big. I'm creative, I like to live in the clouds. And her fact finder score is high. Her follow through score is really high. And that's, those are things that she really values and like, like she, she loves research and, and things of that nature and, and I like to just make things happen, move things along but if, if we don't understand how each other's work, each other works. There's actually a book on this called the Synergist, where it helps you understand that in order to be a synergist and you have to understand how other people operate and how other people operate and is understanding their assessments of who they are as an operator, processor or visionary. And so she being more of like an operator and processor and me being more of a visionary, like, we would just never really understand each other. But then the more I understood Erica, the more I was like, wow, she's genius and she has so much to offer and vice versa, hopefully.

And also that I could save his butt on stuff, you know. Yeah.

We have different gifts and so we've learned to defer to the one that's stronger, like God's brilliant and how he brings people together that complement each other really well. So I've learned to defer to him when it comes to vision direction. What's the next revenue idea? Because he's. That he's amazing at that. And he knows to defer to me when it comes to financial discernment. How, like, how are we doing financially? What choices do we need to make around that? So we didn't have that understanding or respect for each other before, so we were kind of stepping on each other's toes. But with growth and maturity, I think we've recognized that now. So I kind of, I kind of stay in my lane and let him fly, and he does the same, and it's working much better.

I'm going to have to note this book called the Synergist, by the way. I hadn't heard of it before. Obviously, all of Gina Wickman's books that you referred to, like Rocket Fuel and Traction and this entire entrepreneurial operation system or organizational system is something that I've been familiar with for a long time, and I'll include resources for that in the show. Notes, by the way, for anybody listening in, if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com Jones family, I'll put them in there. But I run my entire enterprise. Ben Greenfield, Life off the EOS system We run Kion off the EOS system where we have identified who are the visionaries, who's going to be the person who has that big vision picture for the company, and then who in operations can manage that? You know, typically with a, with a CEO slash visionary role, dropping down to a CEO role, and then that kind of bleeds into each of the business divisions underneath each of those roles, and it's just a fantastic way to run the company. But you guys are right in the same way that I think a family needs to know each other. Family members love language and even personality profiles, like, similar to you guys. Our entire family has done an Enneagram. We all know how each other operate, what communication style works best, what love language works best. We do that with the entire company as well, because I think Gino Wickman gets into this. In Eos, you. You gotta have the right butts in the right seats on the bus. Otherwise, you know, people are plugged into roles that, despite them perhaps being fantastic individuals, they're not going to thrive in because they're essentially doing things they're really not wired up to do.

Right?

Yeah, absolutely. No, it's. That's brilliant. Yeah. And Eric is an achiever. I'm an achiever in the Enneagram. But I think that the last time I took it, I was. I was more of, like, enthusiast. So. So, I mean, there's synergy, but there's also a lot of, like, differences. And what I'll say is that if I, like, I got into litigation, that was an $18 million litigation. And I was thinking back, I'm like, dang, if I just had Erica review a few things, like, I literally would have saved the entire. Like, it would have saved the entire process last year. And, I mean, that's just the beauty of leaning on people that are more genius than you are in certain areas, like, just understanding each other's strengths as parents, understanding each other's strengths as entrepreneurs.

As spouses. It's a game changer when you start leaning on each other in the right way.

Do you guys make your kids a part of the business in any way just to foster entrepreneurship or anything else or to, you know, get cheap labor?

We bring them into conversations. Like, I share with them, like, a lot of the, you know, opportunities, the goals. We have them come up on stage and speak at, like, events so that they can kind of see all the doctors that we're helping transform their businesses and practices.

They definitely have the entrepreneur bug. Like, our kids are still pretty young. They're nine, seven. One's turning five Sunday, and then the youngest is two. But they have the entrepreneurial spirit in a way that, I mean, I was not even exposed to entrepreneurship at their age. So they're constantly looking for ways to get paid.

Like, it's.

They're constantly closing us.

They're closing. They're closers, man. They're strong closers. And they, like, they crush us. They're like little salesmen. I'm like, oh, why did I get them?

It's to the point where sometimes I'm.

Like, what's that look like? Tell me about it. Give me an example.

So, like, for anything, like, hey, mommy, if I go outside and bring the garbage cans up from the street, will you give me a dollar? Or hey, mommy, I made this cool drawing book of golf course maps. That's like an aerial view. And it took me like two weeks to put this together. I'll sell it to you for 20 bucks. So they're like, start.

Correct answer. How about, how about this? I'll feed you dinner.

Exactly. So, you know, we have that conversation where it's like, hey, we're a family. So you don't get paid for, you know, for emptying the dishwasher. That's just like part of your job as a kid. But I do love that they're so entrepreneurial. Like, they'll go door to door knocking to sell drawings they've made. I mean, they made like 50 bucks.

Yeah.

$120.

Was it that much?

Yeah.

In the neighborhood, just selling drawings.

Yeah. They went and cold called and I just sat and watch them. And they were like, and this guy, everyone is giving him 20 bucks a pop. And I was like, $20 for the. I was almost like, don't give him that much money. But they were giving him 20 bucks for each drawing. And then justice goes to one person. The person goes to the door with a $5, and he's just like, no. He pulls the drawing back. He's like, we've been getting $20 per house, each house. He's like, this is. He's like, you're disrespecting my drawings. This guy, he was dead serious. And I was like, man, you can't be saying that. You know, it was funny. But yeah, we've done some fun stuff.

Just you guys wait as they get older. I don't know if I even shared this with you yet, but my sons and I just started our first company together. It's called Fried Pickles Games. We were actually, we, we got stuck in a staycation a few months ago. We were supposed to be on vacation and didn't. Didn't quite work out. We're supposed to fly to Costa Rica and my passport failed at Costa Rica customs. So they literally sent us packing straight back to the US we had like a 27 hour trek through New Jersey. And, you know, and my kids, of course, were like, heartbroken that they didn't get to go spend the week on the beaches in Costa Rica like we had planned. But we got home and so now we've got this whole week cleared with nothing to do. And so we were doing like father son date nights and you know, staycation oriented activities like you know, dinner games and garage games and you know, spring cleaning and all sorts of things. But what happened was that they were also going through this book by Sun Tzu for their homeschooling called the Art of War. And one of my sons, when I took them out to dinner during this vacation, he said, dad, you know what's really funny? I'm like, well he's like, we should do a game. It's called the Fart of War. And it's like farts that battle against each other. And we were just all laughing about it at first, but then we actually started to like draw different fart characters on index cards, like white index cards like the princess fart and the old man fart and the, the celiac disease fart, which later got canned because we figured that wouldn't be politically correct or could, could affect people who actually do have celiac disease. And then you could make your fart stronger or weaker. Like you could equip the weak, say typical toot with a whey protein shake and some Indian food. Or you could like make your opponent's fart weaker with potpourri or peppermint oil. And then there's like special cards. You could mask how powerful your fart is with like a blame it on the dog card. Or you could make yourself impervious to attack from other people's farts with a gas mask. So long story short is we actually started a father son gaming company called Fried Pickles Games. And we've been working like 20 hours a week like Moonlighting. And our first game called the Fart of War is going to manufacturing next week. So we're actually, we're actually launching on Kickstarter and everything. So. So as they get older they, they really start to tell, especially if you're an entrepreneur, they start to come up with these business ideas. And I mean, you know, I think this was inspired by James Altucher actually you guys, he has this idea where every week you sit down, you map out 10 new ideas. And they've been doing that on their blog for years now. It's a great way to just allow your kids to have this almost like a skunk works type of approach for their entrepreneurship and creativity and just generate idea after idea after idea and then step back and Watch them thrive with which ideas feed their their passions and their interests. So, you know, for them, initially, it was cooking, like their Go Greenfields cooking channel, and now it's fried Pickles gaming company. So there you go. Maybe we'll have to send one to you guys to be a. Be a test family for play.

Send us a test game. The boys will love it.

The kids will love it. Yeah.

Thank you. Okay, so I want to delve a little bit into your chapter in boundless parenting, where one thing that really leapt up to me was you guys have three main elements in your parenting approach that I thought it would be really cool to share on this podcast. So tell me about the three main elements in your parenting approach. Yeah, you can start.

Yeah. So I think the first, which is so foundational, is the spiritual component. We love Jesus. Like, that is the whole reason why we're here on the earth. And so we bring that sense of purpose into everything we do with our kids and our families. So our goal as their parents is to teach them how to have a personal relationship with God and to know the Lord for themselves. So that permeates everything that we do. And when that foundation is set, that's like the springboard for everything else that is to come. Right. So that's the first thing.

Oh, I was going to ask you what that looks like as far as, like, how you're training your kids spiritually. If it's like, books or family devotions or things along the like. From a practical standpoint, how do you teach the spiritual part?

I mean, for us, it's all throughout the day, but a lot of the focus time is in the homeschool room. That's one of the things I love so much about homeschooling, is that I can weave and we can weave the truth of who God is into every aspect of education, whether we're talking about science and how animals are created, or we're talking about nature and what's outside, even concepts around math and numbers. Like, all of that was created by him. So in our homeschooling routine, I'm reading through the Bible with my kids. I'm asking them, what did you get out of that? Did you hear anything that spoke to you? And when we first started doing that, it was actually recommended to me by a curriculum that I use, and I was kind of like, are they really going to get anything? Like, are they going to get anything? If I'm reading out of the Old Testament, is anything going to really resonate with them? Because when we started this they were like 7 and 5. But the things that they would get, the things that they would pull out.

Were, like, shocking.

It would surprise me. It would surprise me. We were reading through Moses, the story of Moses this semester. And, you know, we were reading through the different plagues, and they were just kind of like, this is crazy. Wouldn't the Pharaoh let the people go? They were just like. They were understanding, like, wow, God is really showing himself through all these supernatural things. It's foolish of him not to let the people go at this point. So it was like they were. They were picking it up. They were getting it. So we read through the Bible. We talk about character from a biblical perspective. That's one of the things that Isaac and I, we really want to drive home with the kids. We have a word of the week every week during the homeschool season. So we're talking about how to be attentive. What does it look like to really love? What does it look like to show deference and to put someone else ahead of yourself? How can you be content with the moment? Yeah, you didn't get the toy because someone else is playing with it. Okay. This is an opportunity for you to show contentment. So we weave all of that into the scripture. So that's just a couple of ways, but I'll let you share, too, whatever you think around the spiritual.

Yeah, I think another great element of spirituality is just watching their. Their mom and dad, like, in how we live our lives.

Erica loves. She was like a gospel singer in church growing up, and she just has got a beautiful voice. And so the music that constantly permeates the house is such that.

They just are constantly listening to worship music, or they're listening to classical music, or they're listening to jazz. But there's really good, healthy, quality music and spiritual messages that are regularly just permeating the house throughout the day.

I'm so glad you brought that up, by the way. Music is such a great delivery mechanism, not only for things like our family does a lot of memorization of scripture, for example, and we'll do a lot of that via praise and worship music. Or we have something called a psalter, where you can sing your way through the psalms. But I'm very intentional with the music component for our family, which it sounds like you guys are also like. When I wake up in the morning, one of the first things I do is start up the essential oil diffuser, burn some incense, and then I'll put on a soaking worship music channel, which is, like, real, peaceful worship Music. So when the boys wake, like, the house already has kind of like this. This holy, reverent, peaceful feel to it. And then as the day progresses, that music can become, you know, like, more uplifting stuff like, I don't know, Hillsong or Elevation worship or, you know, or more popular like, you know, Christian gospel or something like that to kind of keep the mood elevated. And sometimes in the evening, it goes all the way back to, like, classic country and things like that. And then we kind of wind up the day with more spiritual songs. I play them on the guitar. But, you know, if you're a parent listening in, you can. You can really use music in a powerful way to enhance your children's life and introduce whatever emotion that you want to introduce into the home. You can do so via the carrier of music. So I'm glad you guys brought that up.

Yeah, and I am, too. I'm glad you mentioned just how you bring music into the entire day, because we really love to do that. And I've often found, especially when Isaac's traveling and, you know, especially. Especially when the kids can kind of be at each other and there can be, like, a level of stress in the home putting on music that. Especially the worship music, it brings in, honestly, it brings in, like, the presence of God into the house. And I start singing it, the kids will start singing it. Sometimes I'll put on, like, Kirk Franklin and we'll be dancing and jamming in the kitchen to know, you know, gospel music back from my childhood. And it changes the dynamic of the home. So I. I'm a music person, period. But I just. I totally agree with you on the ability of it to change the atmosphere.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. As a matter of fact, we do family devotions, which. It sounds like you guys have some element of that as well.

Yeah.

But at least once a week, instead of devotions, I put on some amazing, beautiful worship song, usually like a six to eight minute song. And we just basically dance and sway and hug and snuggle and just listen to a song together. And it's a fantastic way to start the day. Sometimes it's a little more uplifting. We'll literally have like a dance party around the kitchen table. But more often than not, it's just like, sway your hands, close your eyes, soak up the music, and start the day that way.

Yeah, it's the best way to possibly start a day. Like, it really is.

Oh, I was going to say. So that one main element is spirituality. And by the way, I'll address the elephant in the room. I know that Erica has to go. What'd you say? Around 10 minutes or so from now. Okay. All right. So I want to make sure. Let's tackle these other two elements, even though we're just for you, if you're listening. We're not going to end this podcast in 10 minutes. Isaac and I got a lot to talk about. But. But while you guys are both here, let's get into these other two main elements of your parenting approach, in addition to spirituality.

Yeah. So that's. The second one would be the physical, and that's really around, like, everything that we believe around health, wellness, holistic living. We are teaching our children to live on purpose when it comes to their health. And so they.

Almost to a fault sometimes are so, like, heavily focused on what's natural, what's good for the body. It was funny because our last nanny, they were, like, criticizing her lunch. When she would come in, she would bring her lunch, and they were like, that's toxic.

Like, why are you eating that?

Canola oil?

Yes. We were like, not everybody eats like us. Um, so, I mean, Isaac really has. Has pioneered that and brought me into that at the beginning of the relationship. But I'll let you share a little bit more around the physical, the health.

Yeah. Well, Erica has done a great job with systematizing meals. Like, they always asked what we're gonna have for breakfast or whatever it might be. And so we just have a schedule for breakfast now. It's like, you know, bacon and eggs. It's avocado bowl. It's, you know, it's. It's like a smoothie. It's, you know, it's like we have a whole.

Rotate it.

We have a whole system down that rotates different types of meals throughout the day.

That's interesting, actually. So. So you guys don't spitball in the morning. You. Is it, like, posted somewhere with the meal schedule?

It is literally posted. It's posted because they were fighting because we have four. Right. So they were fighting every morning about what breakfast was. They're all foodies. They all like to eat, so they would just. It was a brawl.

Yeah. So that. So we're like, we're just going to end this once and for all, and we're going to have what we're doing Monday through Sunday, and there's no questions. And it just.

For lunches and dinners also, I kind.

I change that up each week, but I have my, you know, I meal plan every week like clockwork. But we rotate through similar things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so that it's still. They still ask what they're eating for lunch and dinner.

Are the kids a part of the meal preparation process in terms of teaching how to cook or things like that?

Yes.

Yeah, they do.

They love it. They all love to help in the kitchen. Even the two year old, I mean, she'll mix things in the bowl. She has a ladder that she likes to stand on and help me prep things. That's some of the most special time with my kids is when we're all standing around the mixing bowl in the kitchen and getting a meal ready. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

And they made us breakfast the other day too. Yeah, they'll go and, like, mix stuff in the Vitamix and whatnot.

I'll tell you what, that, that's so perfect, by the way, that you're incorporating them at this age, because we did the same. Like they, they just get to put the pinch of salt in here or follow along with the cookbook and put this measurement into the measuring cup.

Yeah.

And then I remember the very first meals, I took out Tim Ferriss's Four Hour Chef, which is a great book in general, just for the process of learning. And I showed them the scrambled eggs algorithm in that book, you know, here's how to make scrambled eggs that are Indian or Moroccan or Japanese or whatever. And so our sons literally learned to cook, doing like 20 different variations of scrambled eggs every morning.

Wow, that is amazing.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

The last thing I would say too, around the physical is we're a really active family. So now that it's spring, it's warming up, we're going to be outside bike riding together. My boys are outside all the time. They like to play in the dirt, they like to golf. They were doing flag football. They like to be in the woods on trails. We're just, I mean, we're going to vail in a few weeks just to be in the outdoors and experience that. So that's one thing that I love about our family dynamic is we have a sense of adventure and we love being outside.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and one thing that, that we have a culture of in the house is just. I don't know what it is. It's like running, wrestling.

Oh, yeah.

Like, you know, rough. Roughing each other up a little bit, but in a way that we try not to draw blood. You know, it usually doesn't work all the time, but, you know, but it's, it's fun and, you know, we just, we just love it.

Yeah. I Hear you. That's. That's why I send my sons to Jiu Jitsu three times a week so they can get that. That tussling out of their system and learn responsible rough play. You know, I also, I assign my son's workouts. Like, I email them on Sunday night, like, a list of workout menus that they could choose from throughout the week. And they got to, like, put a little X on the refrigerator where the workouts are hanging, that they completed it for that, for that day or for that week. Do you guys ever formally structure workouts or anything like that? Or is all just kind of fun and creative play at this point?

At this point, it's mostly creative play.

What I will say, though, is interesting is they'll come and work out with me. So in my structured workouts, I'll just get them like, like different types of, you know, exercise.

Tools that are, that are not as. They're not.

That aren't.

Aren't. Aren't as heavy as what I'm using. But yeah, they've been really enjoying, you know, working out with me. Like, you saw justice the other day.

He was doing pushups in the kitchen.

Yeah, but, but, yeah, but, but we haven't got gotten to the point where we've structured actual workouts just yet. But I think I dream actually of doing that. Like, I use the newbie from New Fit, and I'm just like, dang, whatever they want to get into. I'm going to be able to, like.

See you strapping electrodes to your kids here in a year or so, shocking them, seeing what the neighbors think. So, you know what? Before Erica has to take off, tell me about the third element.

That's the emotional. So that's really important. I just do this by asking them how they're doing. Sometimes, you know, kids are just like adults. They have good days and they have difficult days. So for me, when I come into the homeschool room with them, because we are usually schooling like four out of the five weekdays, I'll just ask them how they're doing. How are you guys? How's your heart? Are you okay? Are you having a good day today? And most of the time they're fine, but sometimes they're like, no, I'm upset because Isaac did this or whatever, and we'll talk through it. We'll bring the other person in if they need to. But just having the awareness as a parent of how they're doing emotionally is, Is really important to us. We really. We treat our kids like they're you know, like they're human beings. Some people treat kids like they're less than human beings, but we don't have that in our house. And so we really prioritize their emotional health as well.

One element of that is that we, you know, we, we've seen parenting where it's, it's very dictatorial and we try to create an environment where, where they're able to communicate to us freely around their emotions.

With respect.

With respect, exactly. And so it's, it's really created an opening for just amazing conversation. And when you buy the, the Boundless Parenting book, one of the things that, that you sent with us is like conversation cards. And we, we ask really great questions. But those conversation card questions and a lot of the questions that are inside the Boundless Parenting book are if anybody hasn't bought that book, anybody who's a parent needs to. It's awesome, you know, needs to read through it.

Thank you for doing my shameless plug for me.

Yeah, I mean, it's so good. It's just so good and there's just so many great questions to ask. But, you know, it just allows for us to just really be in a beautiful communication with our family and just allows for us to have a good ebb and flow emotionally, you know, with them as well.

With four kids in a busy household. And I asked this because I found kids interact with you far differently one on one than when it's two parents on one child or one parent with multiple children or any mix thereof. Those one on one times and the digging into where a child's at emotionally, a lot of times I'll do through a calendar, one on one date with each of my children once per month. But in terms of the comings and goings in your house, how do you actually treat that idea of getting a child alone to actually address their specific emotions? Do you systematically do that or is it just organically happen throughout the day?

We have to, we have to grab those moments when we can. Sometimes we'll do formal dates. Isaac is amazing at that. Taking them out for a smoothie or something on a, on a one on one date. For me, I'm more kind of, you know, stealing away 15 minutes while maybe everybody's outside and one of them's inside. Or if I school my kids, we have group time, but I school them one on one as well. So I'll use that time as well to really check in and connect with them. And sometimes I'll take them out on dates. I don't have as much freedom around that, but when I can, I'll do that. So I just kind of build it in when I can. But we agree with you that the one on one is really important, especially for us having so many children, four children, where they're all kind of vying for the attention of mom and dad at any given time and usually the younger two are winning out. It's important to make sure to carve that space. And I will say too, that informs like the priority as well. So for, for me, like, I can see this one hasn't had as much time and space with mom and dad. So you kind of look at that too in terms of how to prioritize that, that one on one connection.

Yeah. And I feel like we've actually, we actually see if, if there's one child that has gotten less one on one connection, like they start acting up unconsciously. So if we proactively are investing time with them, it just makes a big difference. And you know, my, my son was, when I came back from my last trip, I was speaking at a big doctor's event with 1200 doctors present. I come back and they always ask what I'm bringing back for them. So I brought these organic chocolates back and I didn't realize that my son ate like I told him he could have a piece, but he ate like the entire bar. And he was like, you know, feeling really sick afterwards after like he had gone to sleep and he like woke me up while we were in bed at like 2 o' clock in the morning. He's like, my tummy hurts. I'm like, how much chocolate did you eat? He's like, I ate the whole thing. I'm like, oh my gosh. So I spent like a good 30 minutes with him supporting him and then I.

He didn't throw up or anything like that, but he was just like, you know, just, just not feeling the best. And so I, I, I just scratched his back in bed and then I ended up falling asleep next to him in bed. When he woke up in the morning and saw me in the morning, he just like melted. You know, he's like, dad, you really helped me last night. Thank you so much. And, and I was like, man, this is probably more powerful than one on one time was just how I showed up for him last night and just supporting him. So little moments, capturing little moments like that I think are, are really important. And Erica does a really good job with that.

All right, folks, so, so opening the kimono, Erica had to boogie and Isaac and I both Took our pee. So now, now we're here and not clinching. Um, so not clinching. What'd you have for breakfast, by the way, Isaac? Are you one of those? Well, this morning we had, we had.

We had just straight bacon and eggs and I. It was keto, so I just, I did healthy fats. I put grass fed butter on it. I threw on a little bit of olive oil, and then I had some.

Some just really good bacon and egg. And I had like, you know, just chopped it all up, put some nice herbs on it and, and sea salt, and it was delicious. And hot sauce.

I had a Space Milk smoothie.

Oh, nice. What is that?

So like two weeks ago, one of my buddies texted me. He's like, have you seen this stuff? He sent me this link to space. It was like spacemilk.com and I'm like, oh, here we go. Another unhealthy Soylent Green chock full of Franken fuels and chemicals. And it's like fermented plants that they've managed to design in a way that creates all the essential amino acids. And I got this big silver canister of it like two days ago. So this morning I'm like, all right, here we go. I could get an explosive diarrhea during the podcast, but I'm gonna give this a go anyways. So I made myself a smoothie with a giant heaping scoop of this Space Milk stuff. And, you know, I still put like ice and stevia, a little bit bone broth, and, you know, blended it up. It was actually surprisingly good. So Space Milk is not a sponsor of this episode. Maybe they should be now, but yeah, so there you have a Space Milk. It's. It's the new frontier of sustainable protein that's neither vegan nor animal, but it's just like fermented plants.

So the future of protein, I'm seeing it right here. That's very interesting.

45 minutes. I'm not dead yet. Okay, so. So where we're at right now is your guys. Three main elements. You got the. The spiritual. You're prioritizing, ensuring that your children have a connection with God at the beginning of the day and throughout the day. You have the physical meaning that you're ensuring that your kids move, they get out in nature. They see you working out because more is caught than taught, which a lot of parents in the book tended to repeat over and over again. And they're welcome to join you in almost like mini versions of your workouts. And then finally, you have the emotional component, meaning that you understand your child's, your child's love language, your child's. It sounds like even like their personality score. And you dialogue with your child and pay attention to their emotions in the moment. And that's just like something that you have on your radar throughout the day. Is that kind of like sum up these three main elements?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one thing I feel like a lot of parents need to know.

That is a game changer is eye contact. Like when you're talking to a child, like giving them eye contact versus doing whatever you're doing and not really giving eye contact while you're working, I mean, it's just a game changer. They listen more, they feel more connected to you. I know that the psychological elements of eye contact are very powerful. So that's just one little element that I'd add in there.

I'm glad you brought that up. I realized that I was doing a poor job of that when my kids were like seven or eight. And family tennis is a big thing that we do where mom and I will play the boys or we'll partner up for something like mixed doubles. And I noticed when we do, like our handshaking at the end, my sons weren't doing a very good job looking at me in the eyes. So I started paying attention to it. And then I noticed when I take them out to group events where I taught them how to give, you know, people they met a firm handshake that they kind of averted eye contact. I thought, gosh, like, this is already happening. My kids, like many humans, are not using these windows to the soul in the way that they should as far as deeply connecting with another human. So what I began to do was about anywhere from one to four times a month for a bedtime routine. I'll put on a song, like about a four to six minute long lyric free song, like an instrumental. And mom will be with one of the boys, I'm with the other. If you have more children than two, you'll just need to kind of rotate accordingly. And all we do is stare into each other's eyes for four to six minutes while we, you know, you know, stroke each other's hairs or faces or, you know, say, you know, lovey words like I love you. I'm so proud of you, you know, what was the best part of your day? But it's all with really deep, intense, you know, almost creepy eye contact. And I found that has made them just doing it with their parents has made them far more comfortable looking into another human being's eyes in a very deep way and not making that seem awkward, you know?

That is awesome. Yeah, I do it through staring contests. I'm like, hey, look, like, I haven't given them eye contact for a little while. And then it's just like a fun game, you know, where we're just like, all right, staring contest. And then, you know, we'll. We'll do that. But I love the element of doing that with music and affirming them at the same time. That just takes it to a new level. That's awesome.

And are you guys actually using. I mentioned, but I won't put words in your mouth. Are you guys actually using the love languages in terms of knowing your child love language and addressing them accordingly? Can you tell people about that?

Totally. Yeah. So we know that there's children in our household that have, like, words of affirmation as their primary physical touch is. Their primary time spent as their primary.

Gifting is maybe secondary for some. But, like.

It'S very important to understand what your child's love language is. If it's. If it's acts of service, time spent physical touch, words of affirmation. And the last one I mentioned earlier, but what's powerful is that.

When you understand their personalities, like my son Isaac is similar to Erica, where he's like a processor, he's more melancholy. And so I'll tell him to toughen up or something like that.

And at first he'll go internal like Erica does emotionally. And I'm like, what's happening? And you give Erica five minutes just to process whatever is going on. And emotionally she's fine. And then she's like, good. And justice is my son justice.

Isaac is very similar to Erica in that he needs that space. And then when he comes back and he kind of processes things, he's good, and I've given him that space. I know that he needs a little bit of physical touch and time spent. So.

Those are key elements of really understanding your child's needs for.

Fulfillment. And I can tell you that they act out less when you understand what their love language is and you fulfill on them and they melt in many different ways. And a lot of people come over to our house and they're like, you guys have the most perfect children. You guys, they just listen to you and they're so well behaved. And. And I'm just like, we just, like, care about understanding what our child needs. You know, we. We have.

We.

We follow. You know, we, we, we. We're not like parents that just let ourselves get ran over by our children. Like we've got certain rules in the house that, that, that we abide by and we, we stick to them and you know, and then we, we pour into their love languages and it, and it makes a massive difference emotionally. And like, you know, when they, when, when they typically some, some people, they'll come over and they'll tell their kid to do something. Kid won't do it. And then we'll tell our kid to do something and they'll, they'll do it right away. They're like, how do you get your kids to do that? It's like a holistic answer to that. There's, there's not just like one, you know, answer. I think it's like almost everything we do, you know what I'm saying?

And there are online questionnaires that your entire family can fill in. I forget the URL, hunt down a couple of URLs and put them in the show notes. But there are, there are specific surveys that allow you to pretty easily that are even kid friendly identify the love languages for each member of the family. And we found that to be really, really good for our family. Like, I know if my son river is down, like it's not about me having a long chat with him. It's not about me like giving him a gift to make him feel better. He's total physical touch that his love, that's his love language. So he just needs snuggling time. Like he needs to be held, caressed, touched, hugged. My, my wife is quality time. Like if she's down, she needs me to much to my chagrin, like sit out on the patio for like 45 minutes drinking a glass of wine and talking. You know, when every bone in my body just hates to sit out in the patio and drink a glass of wine doing nothing but talking. But I know that's her love language. And so that, and so if I give her a big hug or I give her a gift that doesn't do it for her, like she needs time. That's why we do the regularly scheduled date nights. And then. What's your love language, Isaac?

My number one is words of affirmation. Number two is physical touch. Okay, so this is like the mistake I think a lot of people make is they give what they, what they, their love language is. And so that's what I would give to Erica was words of affirmation, physical touch. When Jess and Erica are the same and where it's like, you know, Erica is time spent in acts of service. She Wants me to do the dishes and vacuum and unclog the poopy toilet.

Or whatever, you know.

Or at least find somebody to do it. It's interesting. I think you and I are wired up similarly, not only as visionaries, crappy operators, but good visionaries for a company. My love language is also words of affirmation. And yeah, you know, the perfect example is like, I had a really hard day of work yesterday. It was just long and hard. You know how it goes. Like just stuff pops up and putting out more fires than you usually do. I get to the end of the day and I tell my wife it was really, it's really hard day. And we've been married for 22 years, dude. Like, and it's, it's taken probably up until like two years ago to where she knows exactly what to do. We probably did the love language study and survey maybe six years ago. But she gives me a big hug and she says, I see how hard you're working. Thank you so much for taking care of our family, for providing for us. And that's it. Like, that's literally like a 20 second exchange. And I say, thank you, babe. That meant so much to me. And that's all I need is just someone to tell me that they see me, that they appreciate what I'm doing, and then I'm good. I don't need a gift, I don't need time, I don't need a hug, I don't need a back massage, none of that. So it's really important because sometimes I think we as men and women and parents and wives and husbands, we get frustrated because we feel like our partner doesn't get us or see us or treat us the right way when we're stressed. But sometimes they just don't know. And you also don't know. You're like, gosh, I think my wife and I should just go on a date and hash this out. When in fact it could literally be like a 30 second conversation of her being reminded to tell you that you need to hear how hard you're working and somebody seeing it, you know.

Totally. Yeah. That's so powerful. And I think like, even when you go into seasons where, you know, your wife just gives birth and she's like feeling that, that, that just like, man, I'm giving so much to this baby. You know, there's just an awareness of like, hey, look, like for a season, maybe all your needs aren't being met if you physical touch of making love of like all these different things that you, you Know, feel like you need and just having that awareness of, like, okay, well, what else can I do while she's, you know, breastfeeding and kind of recovering from labor to, you know, to get out there and, you know, get out, you know, to jiu jitsu, wrestling with my guy friends, or, like, you know, go out and play around a bat, like golf or basketball.

Just getting creative with it. Because if we're not aware, then it just starts to feel like we're just being deprived and a bunch of kind of.

Things that, at least for me in the past, early on, before I really had an awareness of it, I was just like, she's so selfish. I'm like, no, she's breastfeeding. She just had a baby. There's other ways that you can kind of, you know, figure things out. And obviously, as she's learned, she's also poured into me in ways that. That I need and want and desire. And I think the ultimate trump card, and this is where I saw with Erica, is as she grew her personal relationship with God, she just went into this deep, like, growth phase on her own of, like, reading books and praying and. And just being alone with God and going out in nature. And it was like, I was inspired and like, it just like, elevated her to have this elevated level of peace, joy, happiness. She was singing more. She's just in this flow state on a regular basis. I'm like, what is happening to my wife? And it was like, it truly does trump like the love languages in a way, because you're just constantly in overflow and abundance. And it inspired me to do that. And naturally you just get all your love languages met because God's giving it to you, but your wife and your other, you know, your spouse, I'm giving it to her. And it's just this beautiful synergy, you know.

I've taken a lot of inspiration from my wife in the same way Isaac. She has this morning practice I'm nearly envious of because I don't have as much time as she does sometimes in the morning to do this. But for one to two hours, she is sitting in the bedroom with earplugs on. You know, once the kids have had their breakfast and they're off doing their things and she's reading the Bible, she's praying, she's typically reading through some kind of a devotional. And she'll literally be locked in the room. Like, I'll walk up to the bedroom because I have a home office. I'm like, geez, you're still in Here, you know, and go out and get some things done and come back up and, you know, maybe grab some. I left up next to the bed. She's just like sitting there looking out the window, praying. You can see her lips moving. And sometimes she can't hear me because the earplugs are in. But what's interesting, you know, this is kind of, I, I suppose kind of a raw and transparent thing to talk about. But she started doing that during the time when I wasn't really there for her, like fully present as a father and as a husband. You know, you and I travel a ton for business. I know that you're a road warrior and kind of a dragon slayer also, but there was, there was a period of years, probably like eight years, where my travel was not just travel. It was like escapism from being a good father and husband. You know, my wife would go to church on her own with the boys, and I just wouldn't be there or else I'd be home. But I wouldn't go to church because I was just like recovering from travel. I was, I was not devoted to God at all. This was all the way up until.

Probably nine years ago. I, you know, even though I, I said I was a Christian, I wasn't like praying. I wasn't reading the Bible. I wasn't steeped in scripture or memorization or meditation or anything like that. I was not a faithful husband. So I was with other women. And it was. And so it got to the point where my wife was just on her knees every day praying for me and praying for God, who was kind of like being the father that I should have been. Not that I'll never, you know, I'll, I'll never replace God. But she had to turn to God in a really big way. And through thick and thin, she stuck through. I mean, we almost got divorced and, you know, split up the family. And it was horrific. And a big, big part of getting us through that was her devotion to God. Me seeing her turn to prayer and time with God to get through that, and then me saying that's what I needed to do to be the man that God had called me to be and to repent of my sins and to step up to the plate as a father and as a husband. And so now, you know, on the notes app, on my phone, I have a daily prayer, meaning I literally have a written prayer that I say the same thing every single day. It's like a ten minute long prayer. And then I have my scripture time and my Prayer time. And then about an hour and a half later, I go upstairs when the family's all up and we gather in the living room for family meditation, prayer. Because I don't want the same thing to happen to my sons, right? I don't want them to just have dad invisible down in the basement. I want them to be praying with me, reading with me. And so that we have our, our big devotional time together. And then after that, my wife goes up and does her own thing. But if you were to come to our house in the morning, people would be like, dude, what kind of back to the cult thing? What kind of cult is this? These people are just like obsessed with God all morning. But, dude, it's a game changer. It's, in my opinion, the only way to really, truly be fulfilled and get through life and make it through trials and tribulations without imploding, like most families do when things like this happen. And it was God that got us through it all. Back to your wife's practice. It was namely my wife, her commitment to God, her inspiring me to do that, and then me eventually, by the grace of God, you know, repenting of my stupid ways and coming back around.

Dude, wow. Thank you for sharing that. What transparency. And it's interesting how, you know, we like it. High achieving men, I think, have similar temptations. And, you know, it's, it's, it's like it's truly by the grace of God. Like, I've had multiple times where I'm like, how is this relationship even going to work? Like, how, like, we're definitely like, divorce was at the front of my mind, you know, many times in the relationship.

It's the easy way out.

Yeah, it's the easy way out. And all the things that we've discussed on this podcast, it's like that's where you double down. And honestly, when I look back on our most challenging times, where we've had to go to counseling or we've had to really take some time to think about what I said or did or what she said or did, or whatever it might be, it's mostly me, actually, when I think about it.

And it's me being selfish, I don't think about it at the time, but it's really just selfishness.

What it's come down to is massive growth for both of us. When you're committed to growth as a couple and you're committed to just.

Seeing.

The best in each other, which is one of the marital books that we had read together, it was like Just seeing the. Are you holding up the other person, your mind's eye to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're a good person inside. And oftentimes I would think no, like she's not giving me enough physical touch or she's not giving me enough words of affirmation or like she knows my love languages. She should give these to me, you know, regularly and you know, she should set a timer or whatever. Literally these are some thoughts that I've had in the past. And.

It'S literally like those challenges or blow ups that we've had in the past have literally been some of the greatest opportunities for growth. And where we are right now is because we committed to each other through those times, even though they are rough. And it maybe took a few months or several months to get through some of the challenges like our marriages. We're going on 13 years this year, not 22 like you. Dude, you look like you're 22 right now. You look like you're like a high school punk, man.

There's something to be said for the pile. I really don't care as much about the way I look, but dude, I feel like I'm 18, like it's. Life's pretty amazing from a physical standpoint right now. And yeah, I don't know if it's the peptides or the stem cells, the red lights or the cold plunges or all the above, but yeah, it feels amazing.

Back to what you're describing. I, I think it comes down to blame in many cases. Like if you read David Hawkins book on healing and frequency and the different vibratory levels of the different emotions that we can display. Blame is a very, very low frequency emotion. And I think that creeps into families because you're a bunch of humans in close proximity. Gosh, she didn't do the dishwasher, she drank all the coffee. Why didn't my son clean up? What's wrong with my son? It's not me as a father. Something's wrong with this kid. He's got, you know, ADD or he's, you know, he's, he's just a born liar and why won't my wife do this or that? And it's very easy to just spread the blame around. And I think that that leads to. And there's a great book by this, I think everybody should read it. Every couple should read, at least by Jim Wilson called How to Be Free of Bitterness. And I think that blame, blame, blame, blame, little bits of blame throughout the day lead to deep Rooted bitterness. And as you know, Isaac, because you're. You're trained in medicine, you know, like in Chinese traditional medicine, bitterness is associated with cancer and with osteoporosis. In the Bible, anger, like unrepentant of or deep seated, long chronic anger. And the bitterness that is essentially synonymous with that is literally, throughout the book of Proverbs and elsewhere, described as something that destroys the bowels and destroys the bones and destroys the heart and the gut. And there's a direct physical correlation between this as well. But I think for me, one really, really important thing has just been to be aware of that. And anytime I feel my emotions bubbling up, think, okay, am I, you know, as Jocko Willink might say, taking extreme ownership over this as the father and as the leader of the home, or am I just spreading this blame around, which is eventually just going to bubble up inside me and get stored and lead to what happens to many, many families, right? Divorce, half splits, you know, anger issues and the like. So I think a big, big emotion that a lot of families need to address is blame.

Oh, def. Definitely. That's. That's powerful. I love Junko, by the way. I. I have my.

You just call him Junko, is it?

Junko, is it. How do you say his name again?

Junko's your garbage man. Jocko. J, O, C, K. Oh, that's right.

Jocko Will. Yeah, he's. That's right. His. He's the Jiu jitsu, like, author, right?

Yeah. You were like combining his first and last names, Jocko Willink. So I could see where Junko came from.

Really?

Yeah, he's wonderful. I'm not a big, like, don't sleep, Navy SEAL mentality kind of guy, but I do like a lot of his messages around ownership and responsibility.

Dude. Yeah, his. My kids, I actually, I actually give that. I gave them some money to read through his books. And that's something that. It was a big book. It was a very big book. The kids read through the Bible. Then the next book was they read through his probably teen book that was 200 plus pages, but they got a lot out of that.

I was watching Facebook Memories the other day because I recently realized, oh, all my home videos are pretty much on Facebook. So I'm in the process of getting them all off of Facebook, but I came across this one speaking of paying your kids. And my kids are Both sifting through three $20 bills each of them, and they're like knee high to a grasshopper. Literally, like, I think six years old, you know, long Flowing blonde hair. People used to ask them, you know, you know, what, what, what does she want at the grocery store? Because they thought my little blonde boys were just, you know, fair skinned little girls. But in the video you can hear me narrowing like, what did you do to get that money? And they're like, we did, we did 50 burpees and we did 10 pull ups and we climbed the rope three times and then we went in the cold pool for five minutes and did breath work. I'm like, oh. And then they're like 10 times and. And I thought, oh my gosh, I did that to my sons when they were six. They had like a two hour cold plunge, rope climbing, burpee workout. I don't throw that kind of stuff at them. I think that was when I was doing professional obstacle course ratings racing. So I kind of want my kids to keep up with that. But. But yeah, I did used to pay my kids to do odd and sometimes over the top things.

Crazy stuff, right?

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we were talking about travel. How do you manage it, dude? I mean, like I said, you're a road warrior. You're out slaying dragons, you just got back from Tokyo. You know, we can talk about this a little bit. You and I are speaking at this big disrupt event down in Atlanta in a few months and kind of like me, like, you're a lot of times in airplanes, airports, hotel rooms, temptations, etc. How do you manage your, not just your health but your presence as a father and husband with the travel?

Yeah, it's a great question. So I mean.

I have to monitor the amount of travel that I do and I used to just book travel and I'm like, hey babe, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And it put a lot of pressure on her, especially when she was raising like infants and having other kids run around.

We would have a hard time maybe with finding a nanny that's reliable and it would put a lot more stress on her if the nanny calls in sick or wasn't as reliable as who we have now and who we've had in the last few years. But I've had to really take a step back as she's shared with me, look, I just can't have you do this anymore. You're part of five masterminds. You run a mastermind, a high level mastermind of dozens and dozens of doctors and so.

And health entrepreneurs. You should probably take a second to just look at your schedule. So we joined Strategic Coach together and one of the things that Dan Sullivan says.

Yeah, exactly. Is he said you should create your personal calendar before you create your business calendar. And I used to do the opposite. I created my business calendar before I would create my personal calendar and then I would weasel in like some things with my personal life and oftentimes it took a back burner. So, so what I've been doing now is I'll be like, hey babe, like I'm going to be planning the next six months in the business next week. Let's just plan the next year out for you and I and the kids so that I can work around that. And so we'll create, you know, our quarterly vacations, our, you know, our monthly like, you know, three day getaways, all of our as many dates as we can get. You know, like this year we're going to be going to Italy for our anniversary, our 13th year anniversary.

And when's that?

You know, what's that?

When's that Italy in July.

We're going to go in the, I think the third week of July.

Okay. We'll just be getting back from our family bike ride trip in Italy. Otherwise I'd take you out to pasta.

Oh, really?

GMO and glyphosate free pasta. So you're intentionally, you're intentionally calendaring, creating present moments when you are home?

Yeah, yeah. And then what I have a habit of now is just monitoring how like I'll pass through. I'll say, hey, this is my plan. Does this work? And I'll just be transparent. Normally it works, but last like two months I did a private mastermind on a private island in the Pacific, Pacific Ocean on this beautiful place off the coast of Panama and Costa Rica. And it was amazing. But then I went right to Mexico. I was keynote speaking at a big event out there. Then I had a tour of Japan. So I went out to Japan, I went to Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, et cetera. And then I went back and I was speaking at this big doctor's event again. So it was too much. Erica told me it was too much, but I'd put it in the calendar. So there's a couple of events there that slipped through the cracks. But it's important to really monitor that with your spouse and just make sure it's. I'll just give you a perfect example. We're trying to find a nanny, we got four kids and I have this opportunity to go to one of my top affiliates ranches.

That, that he's doing snowmobiling on kind of up in the mountains. And it Was going to be like three or four days of snowmobiling. He was flying down, he was picking me up in his private jet and we're just going to have a good time for, for like four or five days. And, and it's just like, it's a cool opportunity. You're hanging out with successful people in the natural health space, picking you up on his private jet. I'm so jazzed to do this trip all like grass fed bison and you know, all these great like meats that he's got, you know, ready for us. And the two days before, like, Erica looked at me and she's like, I just, I don't want you to go. I just can't. Like, we haven't found a nanny yet and yada yada. And I was just like, all right, done. Like I could, I know, like old Isaac would have been like, babe, no. Like I'm getting picked up on this private jet. Like, I am going snowmobiling.

You don't understand, babe. Understand. Yeah, Use your logical mind here. Dad's making a paycheck, I'm providing for the family. You know, I'm, I'm out there just like knights of old on a snowmobile, helping you guys out, you know, it's easy to justify to yourself, huh?

Exactly. Totally. So, so I, you know, I, I was like, immediately, all right, like, it's clear, like, I'm not going. I'm, I'm cool with that. And I just, I had to reorient myself. I, I called the guy up and he was totally cool with it too. He's like, hey, no worries, like we'll just do it some other time this year. And so, you know, just.

Relationships, you know, as a parent, you know, you're going to have to sacrifice especially high achieving eight type A drivers like you and I, Ben.

If we don't like continually be in a state of awareness around how our actions are affecting the world around us, like we could just go into like business growth mode all the time and change the world mode all the time. And we don't realize sometimes that the best way to change the world is through being fully present for our kids and our wife. You know what I'm saying?

If you allow it to, your business will eat you alive. Chad Williamson, another parent who's featured in the book's got 11 kids. He's like an ironman triathlete, big mountain skier and a real successful entrepreneur. And he told me at dinner, and this actually is one of the reasons asked me in the book he said, ben, your business will eat you alive. Here's the order of priority. Number one, God. Number two, your spouse. Because if you and your spouse aren't together and on the same page, your relationship with your kids are going to go to pot. Number three, the kids. Number four, your personal health. Number five, business. And that was a light bulb moment for me. So now when I get up in the morning, I don't get myself over the emails and the voxers and the organizational to dos. It's God, then Jessa then. Although sometimes, you know, depending on whether or not morning delight happens, sometimes it's Jessa first, then God, but it's God, then my spouse and then the kids.

And to that point, yeah, to that point. Like, I think being with your spouse sexually is one of the most amazing spiritual gifts that God's given us. Like, I, I think like for me that's like an amazing element. Like, I don't look at it as, hey, I'm with Erica. I'm like, hey, I'm with God too. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is like me in worship, you know what I'm saying?

Right. It's like David did his book Finding God and Sex. And although I, you know, I think that sometimes sex can become an idol, you know, especially once it becomes like full on tantric, let's do lsd, smoke some weed and have like a six hour one on one orgy together. But yeah, that deep sacred spiritual sex where you're breathing together and you can feel the deep spiritual significance of your relationship melded with that physical relationship and the beauty of your lover, like it's. There is something deeply spiritual about it. I agree. It's never going to replace God, of course, but it can definitely be, you know, just like us praying together each night, having those regularly, often scheduled and calendared, you know, sex nights or sex trips or sex dates. It's definitely something that, that holds us together. And you know, as you were talking Isaac, about your routine and your travels of family and then I know we're starting to run short on time, so I do want to talk about this DISRUPT event as well. But you know, I wanted to share with you a couple of things. In a lot of my speaking contracts now I will delineate if I know it's in a big bout of travel that I'm constantly going to be away from my family because of. I will stipulate that as a part of, of that speaking contract or that travel, my family, my wife and sometimes my sons need to be Able to come with me to whatever event it is. And that's just built into the contract. So I'll do that sometime. So the family just comes with. Another thing is I always have a buffer day, meaning either when I get home, I make sure there's no work scheduled, or I arrange for my flight home from the event to occur later in the day. So I've got like the whole morning in my hotel room to catch up on all the emails, the phone calls, the stuff that inevitably piles up so that when I do get home, I'm not rushing down to the office and, you know, having a brief and curt hello to the family before I jump back into work. So I make sure slate's cleared when I get home for the next day, or I've got that buffer time worked in for a later flight home. So it's not like I gotta rush home to see the family because I know how I operate. If I rush home to see the family and I've got a plate full of work, all the family is gonna see is dad's home and he's busy. All right? So I do that. And then I think one other thing is. And this is important especially because of the spiritual component. Yeah, I have like this robust morning spiritual practice at home, but I don't guilt trip myself into being sleep deprived and getting up at 4am to do like tons of Bible reading and scripture memorization and prayer. When I'm at conference, I'll use like, for example, I use John Eldridge's Pause app. It's a quick 5 to 10 minute pause where I can, before I just rush off to be, you know, speaking at a conference at 8am or whatever. It's just five to 10 minutes where there's an app walking me through a prayer, or it's simply saying that one daily prayer that I have, and I know exactly how long it takes and I can just drop to my knees and say that. But in the same way that my workouts are quick, minimum effective dose, but highly effective workouts, when I travel, my spiritual walk is the same way. And I just want people to know, especially, you know, parents who travel a lot, like, don't guilt trip or shame yourself. If your travel routine, especially from a spiritual standpoint and a physical standpoint, isn't the same as your home routine. It can vary, it needs to be present, but it can be like a miniature version of it, you know?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

That's amazing. And that's one thing I'm excited about as the kids get older is to bring them more with me while I travel because I want to integrate them more into, into what I'm doing, like you. And I always have. If I go for a week, then I take a day off on Monday to be with the kids. And if I go for.

Any more than a week, then I take two days off. And so that's been a rule that we followed and it's just been a great way to reconnect with the family when I come back. But I love everything you just said there. That's awesome.

Yeah. And the only time I think recently I can remember that my wife told me, don't go. And in retrospect, you knowing medicine, understand the significance of this was I was super excited about a trip to the, the what, what's it called? Where Richard Branson has his, his get up out there in the islands. I'm forgetting the name of it now. It's Richard Branson's island. Yeah, Necker. So I was supposed to go out to Necker and speak and hang with Richard and so Necker required vaccinations. This was like three years ago. And I'm like, oh, I'm just going to get vaccinated and go. And my wife's like, okay. And it was like a day before I had everything arranged and my wife just looks me in the eye, she's like, don't go, don't get vaccinated. I just have a bad feeling about this. And I was like, no, no, no, you need to understand, I've done the research on this and that and I've got this peptide protocol I'm going to do to, you know, take care of the damage and these different IVs. It's going to be fine. I got some doctors helping me out to make sure I don't get, you know, vaccine damage or whatever. And she's like, no, don't do it. And so I was like.

And an hour later, after steaming for a while, I came up to her, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to go. It's not worth throwing a wrench in our relationship for me to do this. And by the way, I think the vaccines are just fine, babe, but I'm just going to do this for you. And then lo and behold, here we are three years later and like a lot of my physician friends, they're seeing like triple the time of vaccine related injuries than they are actual cases of COVID or long haul Covid. Like now it's all vaccine injuries. And I'm like, dodged the bullet. On that I need to remember to listen to my wife. And now we just got this entire podcast shadow band.

Oh.

It is. That is so true. And that's another thing that we do with our kids is, you know, we don't vaccinate. And that's just like one element where, you know, people are like, man, your kids immune system so resilient, they're so healthy. Like, you know, all this, like we let them get the flu and the cold and get all snotty when they're, when they're young because that's how they build their immune system. When they, when they're going to Montessori or to Goddard school or whatever we were doing early on, it was great to get those exposures. But you know, now it's, it's like that is a true vaccine. Like that's how you build up your T1 immune system.

Right.

And so I love that there's more awareness. I mean, there's a lot of really smart, intelligent individuals that are calling out like the.

Truth around how you can truly boost your immune system and protect yourself versus doing what the majority of mainstream kind of dogma tells you to do.

Yeah, yeah, we, I didn't, you know, when my sons were born 15 years ago, I didn't know a lot about vaccines, but I did an extended vaccination schedule, minimalist doses. And then because we were traveling a lot internationally, I did do like MMR and polio and some of the ones I was concerned about. But if I go back and do it over again, I do a more homeopathic and natural approach and also just bite the bullet again and just not travel with the kids until I was sure that they'd be able to handle something like a third world country being unvaccinated. So anyways though, do people need to be vaccinated, by the way, to go to this event that you and I are going to do in Atlanta?

I don't know if I'm sure there'll be some people that are vaccinated there, but. No, I mean, you do not need to be.

Tell me about the event.

So Disrupt is a curated application only event where you're going to have to connect with me and or my team to really qualify to come. But it's the top health entrepreneurs and doctors and professionals in this space that are coming together to support each other, to innovate, to create, to build affiliate relationships, and to come up with new innovative ideas and strategies to brainstorm, to mastermind and to share. We've got some of the Fastest growing natural health companies in America that are going to be speaking from stage one was doing just a couple hundred thousand dollars a few years ago to a few million dollars a couple years ago, to 20 million last year, to 70 million this year. So how the heck did they do that? What was their growth trajectory? They're going to be sharing some of the secrets around how they did that. One company that I've got coached and trained sold for $250 million as a supplement company last summer. We're going to have the founder come out and share some strategies and secrets around entrepreneurship and business building. We've got financiers and funding coming in. There's people because we've sold to private equity so many times. With the companies in my mastermind, they're like, how the heck are you doing this? Are there other companies that we can support and help? So we're wanting to have conversations around, hey, how can the natural health space and the more innovative longevity space progress and grow and disrupt the health industry? And it's going to happen. It's just that we want to have a conversation around how we can bring like minded individuals, people that are just wanting to live in the world of possibility around, hey, what can we do to change the disease care system into a true healthcare system that is addressing underlying causes versus just treating the symptoms? And how can we capitalize on what we're seeing as one of the largest gold rushes in history away from disease care and into true health care? And how can we financially capitalize and optimize our ability to grow businesses? But how can we serve people at the highest level to get the best results and get truly transformative healthcare out to the masses? So a lot of different businesses, we've got some businesses that sell lower price point products, but have already done $125 million worth of sales that are going to be there.

There's just some really great people. Ben, you're coming. Ben Greenfield will be one of the keynotes that will be speaking at Disrupt, which I'm excited about. So we've got the top biohacker in the world, one of the top fitness experts in the entire world there in Ben Greenfield. And the other thing that I'm excited about for you, Ben, is you typically come and speak about health optimization, but you don't talk necessarily as much about business and how you've built your successful empire. I mean, you've got just an amazing business and you've tried a lot of things, tested a lot of things, failed a lot of times. And then succeeded enormously over the years. And so I'm excited for you to share a little bit about that. You got Dr. Dan Pompa, who's talking about his explosive growth in his business, Amanda Tress, who's built a nine figure business in the fasting and kind of fitness space and nutrition space. And then we've got a bunch of other really innovative doctors, medical doctors and other health practitioners that are just really on the cutting edge of business entrepreneurship as well as transforming people's lives.

Awesome. What are the dates?

It's September 28th, 29th and October 1st.

Okay, cool. By the way, world biohacker. That's kind of like being the world's top, like fax repair, fax machine repair person, or, I don't know, food dehydrator expert. It's kind of pretty niche to be called the top biohacker. But regardless, yes, I'll be opening the kimono on how I built Ben Greenfield Life and Kion and how we run the companies, the structure, all of my best business building and business management tips for what they're worth from a glorified personal trainer like me. I'll, I'll be down there giving a talk. What I'll do is I'll, I'll put a link to the event and all the details for it. If you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com Jones family so if you want to go end of September, come join me and Isaac. Probably be some good after parties, fun dinners, cool people. So that's going to be in Atlanta. And then.

Isaac, you're going to have to tell Erica everything that she missed. She missed out on the second half of this podcast. I think it was way better once the wife left the room. You just tell her I said that.

We crushed it once we got rid of the performance anxiety of having Erica around.

She speaks so well. And sometimes it actually happens for me where I'm like, man, she's so well spoken. I don't even know if I want to go after her, you know? Yeah, so, yeah, definitely was enjoyable process. And dude, you're amazing. Love you, brother. And I really appreciate what you're doing with, with your mission to transform people's lives and body, mind and spirit. You know, you're, you're an inspiration, all of us.

Cool. Well, I love you too, bro. You're an inspiration. And folks, if you want to listen to my first podcast with Isaac, which was a lot more health and biohacking centered, I'll put that in the show notes@BenGreenfieldLife. BenGreenfieldLife.com Jones family. You can also watch the video version of this podcast if you want to see Isaac sitting around and being lazy and me walking on the treadmill. And anyways, all the resources will be over there. And read Isaac and Erica's chapter in Boundless Parenting. BoundlessParentingBooks.com is where you can grab it. Their chapter gets into a ton of details and other things we didn't even talk about on this show. So whether you're a parent or grandparent or a teacher or an educator or you have a child or you want to have a child, or you plan on having a child, definitely read the book. Grab it. It's kind of like the ultimate tome. Gathered wisdom from a lot of amazing parents, including Isaac and Erica. Isaac, dude, thank you so much for coming on, man.

Cool, brother. Appreciate you, man.

It.