Calm Stress Fast

But then it really got into creating just the right type of vibration. And it turns out there are just frequencies that are very well suited for the human body. These cavities resonate at different frequencies and you want to hit those resonances so that you're actually communicating not just at the skin level, but all the way through to all the different organs.

Welcome to the show. Juicy show notes are going to be a Ben Greenfield life doc.

Podcast. This one is an incredible discussion with scientists, engineer guy named Mike north and.

I hope you enjoy it.

Here we go. Mike, I just met you like an hour ago. I know at least from my notes here that you are a four time Discovery Channel host, including the show Outrageous Acts of Sin Science, you've taught at US Berkeley, you've published in the journal Nature.

And you're the CEO and co founder of this company called shiftwave. You just got done running me through this crazy Batman pop up lab in my home studio where you had wires sticking out of my head. And if you're listening or watching right now, stick around because towards the end of this episode, the scene will shift and you'll be able to see what Mike did to me. The, the stupidly comfortable stuff he did to me at the testing sequence for making a custom shiftwave protocol, which is probably putting the cart ahead of the horse. Because before I hear a little bit more about you, what's the 32nd elevator pitch on what the shift wave is?

Yeah, and shiftwave is very difficult to explain, as you know, because it's so experiential and what it does to a person, something that you've really never felt before. So we really do struggle to explain it to people. And the best way is just to experience it. Yeah, but the way I like to put it is it is the reset button for your entire system. You know, your computer's not running well, something's going wrong. What do you do? You just reset it. And it's the same thing here. And by reset, I mean regulate you mentally, physically and emotionally simultaneously. And it does this on demand and very reliably. And the way it does this is by regulating your nervous system. And your nervous system regulates the rest of your body.

I was going to say it's a chair that vibrates and makes you feel good. Yeah.

My 10 second elevator pitch, you're much more precise. And I want to dive into something just like the engineering behind this and why it does what you just said that it does. But besides the little bit that I know about you, can you tell people how you Got into the whole, I'm going to make a chair that vibrates and makes you feel good.

Well, you know, it didn't start out as a chair. It actually started out as a 3D printed cast that used vibrations to help my leg heal faster. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's a long story, but, you know, oftentimes great things are born out of tragedy. And I lost my best friend, my soul brother, the person that I've connected most with in this world. He was climbing Mount Everest when an avalanche took his life. And that was devastating for me. And then at his memorial, all my friends knew I was hurting, so they all piled on top of me to give me a big bear hug, as friends do. And my foot rolled in a hole, and it broke my leg.

Oh, my gosh.

So here I am, broken leg, dead.

Friend, stories like this up. Oh, my gosh.

And he would always say, there's no problems in life. There's just opportunities. So, kind of when I was wondering, well, what's the opportunity here? One of my dear friends and a mentor and even kind of a father figure in my life, he sent me some research on using vibrations to help bones heal faster. And I read the research papers, and I was compelled enough to then get my doctor to cut my cast off. And then I made a 3D printed cast that had transducers in it.

But how'd you know how to make a 3D printed cast? I'm assuming a background engineering or.

Yeah, I have a PhD in science and engineering, and then I was a Discovery Channel host.

You know your way around a 3D printer?

We would invent things. My job used to be to invent the future.

Okay.

So I'm like, well, here's an opportunity. Let's invent the future of what the cast should be.

Yeah.

And wrap it up.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you print this cast.

This cast, and then, you know, you're making this thing, so you might as well geek out. So started putting pressure sensors in it, accelerometers in it, made an app that talked to it, pushed the information in my cloud, so now my doctor could monitor my healing process remotely. This got written up by Forbes magazine, and then my friend from grad school read about it in Forbes, and he was working on a Department of Defense project making smart prosthetics for veterans. So could you make a prosthetic that had sensors in it that would tell you the emotional state of the person wearing it? And so I pulled my mentor in, Alan Macy, who's leading expert in psychophysiology into that project. And very quickly it was like, wow, you can put a sensor on someone's stump that is going to tell them that, oh, are they potentially depressed? Are they at risk of suicide? This just sucked me into this world of psychophysiology. I was hooked. I was like, oh, this is a way we can put a dashboard on this human body machine system and actually see what's going on.

Yeah. So a sensor that could tell you if you're depressed, which I'm assuming, like you could use something like that on somebody who doesn't just have a prosthetic, like anybody can use that. What do you mean when you say depressed? Is this like sensing brain waves or some other metric that the body is producing?

You know, the, the, the body is emoting so much and I think we've become very focused on brain waves. But your body's expressing it all the time. Every time your heart beats, it's like an update of what's going on with the entire system. How much did your heart contract before? How strong was the muscle pushing? What was the blood pressure of your vasculature when that happened? And from that you can actually plot in an emotional space. It's called the Russell Circumplex model of affect. And it's a 2D affect space where you can plot if someone's happy or sad, depressed or angry. And then you can actually extend it to a three dimensional plot where you put a motivational access axis on there. So are they feeling challenged? Like this is something they can take on and do, or are they feeling threatened, like they need to shut down? So in this 3D affect space you can plot where someone is at, but by just listening to the body and what it's emoting.

That's incredible. So this Brussels sprouts score is just cardiovascular input or, or like the heart and the pumping and the, you can.

Get it, you can get it just from the heart. We can give it to you. But then we also look at things like electrodermal activity. We put that on your finger. So that's looking at what's happening with the sympathetic nervous system. You can even put little electrodes on the face and you can put them onto the corrugator muscle and the zygomaticus and it'll sense if these muscles, you can't perceive it, but if they're just moving a little bit. By the way, this one means you're happy, this one means that you're, you're frustrated.

Okay, so you're touching the side of the cheek for happy tip of the forehead, like third eye area. Satisfaction, you said?

Yeah, yeah. That's like. Yeah, your stress.

Okay, okay.

Got the corrugator muscle.

And which one is that? Is that, did you say? That's the electrodermal response.

So now this is electric EMG electromyotrophe.

Okay.

So it's looking at muscle.

Muscle contractility.

Yeah, exactly.

You Interesting. What happened to your leg? Did it heal faster with the cast?

Well, one thing it healed faster, but it also healed a lot faster because it was a 3D printed cast that I could take on and off.

Oh.

So every night it would take it off and I had no atrophy. My recovery time was absolutely zero.

Possibly a confounding variable, but either way.

Yeah, exactly.

Success.

But I could run in it too. So it was just so much better engineered. But after that my leg healed, but my heart really hadn't. It was a very tragic event. There were a few other events in my life, basically every pillar of my life. My relationship collapsed, my business collapsed, everything collapsed and I was left with nothing. And it's just like, what is going on? And so I decided to go back to my safe space, which is science. And I moved down to Santa Barbara where my mentor Alan is the expert in psychophysiology. And we built a just world class psychophysiology lab. So this is now where we could wire a person up and, and just really form a very clear picture of what's going on with them. This is imagine 16 channels of biometrics collecting data at 2000 data points per second. You form a really good picture. So I got really good at that. Under his mentorship we had the lab, but now the inventor kicked in and said okay, okay, great, I can see where I'm at, I can see where other people are at. But now I want to modify it, I want to optimize it, go beyond diagnostics.

Yeah.

How do we improve it?

Yeah.

And so for that you said there shift. Yeah.

Okay.

So we really feel like the best way to input into the human system is through its own natural senses. And we realize we live in a world where we're just hyper visually stimulated and listening.

Right.

We're just all on screens. So we're abusing this pathway. I would say it's overused, overstimulated and that's one of the major problems with modern life. But then when you look at touch, I mean it would be awkward as hell for me to touch your hand right now.

You were just like.

I'm way Past that.

But, you know, we evolve. Look at chimpanzees, it's 20 hours a day of touching. Go to Brazil. Completely different. And touch is how we communicate. Well, being to each other. So here's this modality that's underutilized. Why not use that as a way to communicate into the system? And so being a rapid prototyper, and.

I'm assuming when you say use that, it doesn't have to be. I know there's a ton of value with human touch, but just like haptic sensation in general.

Yep.

Yeah.

We have all these mechanisms to detect it. We have all these different touch sensors.

Right. Maybe. Maybe from a biological evolution standpoint, the idea is that those adapted in response to human touch, but any touch could probably pull the same thing off or something similar.

And as we evolved, if you want to go way back, before we had eyes and ears. Ears, we were using touch. Right. But if you just look at the first sense that you have when you're in your mother's womb, it's all touch. It's her movement, it's her heartbeat. And this is when the baby's starting to learn to regulate. And in fact, a baby for the first three months of its life, the fourth trimester, really relies on the primary caregiver to regulate their autonomic nervous system. They don't have a fully developed autonomic nervous system yet. And so that's when you soothe the baby. You hold it and you rock it. And what you're doing is you're co regulating your autonomic nervous system to that baby so it can regulate itself.

You're almost like a prosthetic vagus nerve for a baby that hasn't developed it yet.

That's it. Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah, that's it. So what a great modality to use to communicate in. And so we made some prototypes, and then we had the lab went in and wired ourselves up. And they were pretty crude. Back in the day, there was a bunch of dials you would crank.

I was thinking like a robot that comes up and just like grabs you, shakes your shoulders.

Yeah, I've done that in the past. This was just vibrations. This is something that's really easy to control with a computer. So we knew that we'd be able to control it later, but the signal was through the roof. And then it just became a very deep research project. Thank you, Covid. A lot of time in the lab where we could really focus in on this. And then it became just kind of Taming the Tiger. Okay. What are the different Frequencies. What is the technology? So we had to create our own technology to do this. What's the patterning and then seeing what's happening with kind of the fundamental physiology and by extension the psycho emotional state of people. And we made some really tremendous discoveries on these states that we could drive this entire system into.

Yeah. I was actually down in your neck of the woods in LA the other day, and I was at a clinic getting an iv, and they have a massage chair where they sit in where you get your iv, which is great. And you open or you hold the remote for the massage chair, and you have rolling and kneading and percussion and heat and vibration. And I think those are the biggies. You guys probably had some similar options as far as, like, what form of haptic sensation the nervous system responds best to. I describe what your chair does as vibrating. I don't know if that's accurate, but did you have to kind of like go through a bunch of different modalities to figure out what works best or most efficiently?

Yes. So it was different modalities. That was kind of the first phase, but then it really got into creating just the right type of vibration, the right amount of force, the right amount of displacement, and at the right frequencies. And it turns out there are just frequencies that are very well suited for the human body. You know, these cavities resonate at different frequencies, and you want to hit those resonances so that you're actually communicating not just at the skin level, but all the way through to all the different organs, because those also have these touch sensors inside of them.

Okay, so a vibration you're looking at. And we talked about this a little bit in the section people will see later where you did the custom testing on me, and you were identifying how my body responded to, like, the amount of time in between vibrations and the intensity of vibrations. So those make sense, like how strong is a vibration and how much time is there between it. What other aspects are there of, like, the nature of a vibration that you look at besides intensity and frequency?

Intensity, frequency, periodicity. Those are kind of the bread and butter, just, you know, the period between the waves. Okay, right. That's happening.

What's the difference between frequency and periodicity?

Well, they're. They're. They're very similar, but I'm actually using them slightly differently to try to differentiate. Let's just define frequency as the actual frequency of vibrations that you're experiencing. And then we can use periodicity as the waves that are coming in and the period of those waves, like the.

Amount of time in between each series of vibrations that are at a certain intensity frequency.

And this really relates a lot to your fundamental physiology, what's happening. And everyone's different. Right. And so what we were looking at is like, how can we cycle your nervous system and what period for you is really good to be cycling? And some people could keep up with that or some people couldn't. And that's just going to be different from person to person. In the lab, we found that there were just kind of these magic periods that we could optimize to where largely most people fall inside of that. And so that's why we created these pre programmed protocols.

Yeah.

That are very effective because they drive you 60. Yeah, we're at 60 now. Yeah, yeah.

And I noticed some are because I have on the chair, some are for being more calm, some are for focus, some are for kind of amping you up. You have that one called neuroboost. It's like the quick cup of coffee for your brain. And I want to get to the way that you breathe in this thing momentarily. But for people who might be working out or driving in their car right now, aren't. Pulling up the shiftwave website to see, see what this looks like. Describe what the chair actually is in terms of. Because it looks like a gravity chair with like little nodes in it.

Yep. So it's, it's a zero gravity chair, which is just a fancy word for these chairs that recline. A recliner. But that position is very important. This is a very low stress position for the body, which is actually good for the circulation. So that is a very important element of it. Then embedded into it are 18 different transducers. A transducer is what's producing mechanical vibrations that are going to the body. They run up and down your spine and then down your legs. Then you sit down in the chair. And then there's an eye mask that you put on that is just pitch black. And then headphones that you put on the pitch black is important. We found in the lab that what we're really trying to do is cycle people between activation and deactivation. Sympathetic and parasympathetic. And for parasympathetic, there's nothing better than pitch black. And if you recall, we're trying to be the antidote to too much visual stimulation, too much screen time, too many alerts. So we just want to get people out of that. And so we do that. And then there's audio that goes with it. And then the audio has a whole range and it can be everything from music in nature to breathwork classes, basically like guiding you through it to sports psychology. And so a lot of our top NFL players actually across all major league in sports now, but we'll actually be giving them lessons in a very digestible way of very important things for their sports performance.

I think I saw that there's a few on there and I have these folks on the podcast, which is why it leapt out to me, that are breathwork sessions created by the team at Other Shift Othershift. Yeah, and I've done those before, like in the sauna and that. Like, they range from everything from like a quick pick me up to full on, like holotropic, you know, go to the heavens type of breath work. And you have those just like basically set to match the frequency and vibration of the chair.

Yeah, I mean, I can tell you the quick story and, and this in what the moral of this story is. Other ship shiftwave. We're really in this to help people and this interaction will tell you why. One of my friends, slash customers, he took an other shift protocol and I taught him how to program shiftwave and he adapted it and he sent it to me and I said, wow, this is amazing, but I can't use this. This is their stuff. And he said, oh, you should talk to him.

Yeah.

So I got in touch with them and they're like, oh, we love it. No, use it. Do you want to. We can send you some more. You can use any of our content. We, we're in this to help people and we're like, ah, we just love this. So it's no formal partnership deal, nothing like that. Only just because we're aligned on the same mission of helping people.

Right. You just have their content, but you kind of upgraded it by attaching it.

To the chair and it turbocharged.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. The first time I did it was at the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine, Longevity Fest, they call it. It's like the consumer electronic show of all things anti aging and longevity and peptides and stem cells and everything. And you guys had like a fleet of chairs there. You were probably like one of the most popular stations. So you have all these doctors and attendees like laid back with their eye masks on. I was just like, just fried at like 3 o' clock in the afternoon. I'd been out at some function till midnight the night before, you know, slept a few hours, showed up at the expo and you know, I'm doing book signings and videos and I did one of the other ship sessions. But I had like solid like 45, 50 minutes in there and just sat up feeling like a new person. I wasn't sleeping. I was doing breath work. And it's. What I've found is interesting is sometimes I fall asleep in the chair and then other times I'll just follow the vibrations, the breath. And even though I haven't slept, it's kind of like yoga nidra or non sleep. Deep rest. Like you set up and you feel like. You feel like you've had the equivalent of like a power nap.

Yeah.

Which is kind of cool. And I don't know if that's. Maybe you could explain this. I think you guys actually call it some kind of like sleep simulation or.

Synthetic sleep.

Yeah, synthetic sleep. So synthetic sleep just like matches what sleep does without you actually sleeping.

Well, you know, in the lab we found these very unique states we could put people in. And one of the states we found is like, wow. We can put you in the state where we've entrained all your physiological systems. Systems. Your heart rate's going up and down, your vasculature is expanding, contracting, your lymph is moving. And then we even developed a measurement for measuring cerebral spinal fluid pressure in your head. And that signal would jump out.

Drainage piece. Yeah.

We cannot positively because we need to have really sophisticated to fully confirm that we're opening up the glymphatic system and flushing it. But we've correlated it with three factors. One is that we see this.

Significant increase in cerebral spinal fluid pressure in the head. This is what happens during deep sleep. Deep sleep is when the glymphatic system opens up and you flush out all the metabolic byproducts through your brain. The second thing we see are huge slow wave brain activity. This is sub delta. This is an order of magnitude lower than delta. And this only pops up in deep sleep. Then we also did some experiments where we think we are able to see, see the lymphatic drainage out. That measurement's very difficult. But between the slow wave and the CSF pressure fluctuations, those are the two hallmarks of deep sleep. And there's a lot of research around that. So we've just said, well, we really think that this is putting you in a deep sleep like state. We call it synthetic sleep. And then there's the whole anecdotal side of it. If you are unrested and you do 30 minutes of synthetic sleep, you will.

Come out feeling you just got 30 minutes of meditation. And which wasn't the. That wasn't the Synthetic sleep. One that we did.

Right.

It was just the.

That was. That was synthetic sleep. Oh, it was. Okay.

All right, well, what time? We did that at, like, 11:30. I started work at 3 this morning, and I feel like I got, like, a good seven hours of sleep. I slept, like, maybe five hours last night, and that was 30 minutes.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's my. No, it's the most important use case for me personally, for shiftwave. Like you, I travel a lot. Schedules are off. I don't always get enough sleep or it's fragmented or it's not good. So if I wake up in the morning and I didn't get a good night of sleep, or I wake up too early, I'll see what I need to augment. And if it was just absolutely horrid, I'll do a full hour of synthetic sleep first thing in the morning. If it wasn't great sleep, I'll do a half hour.

Yeah.

But if I do that hour, I'm set for the day.

Two random questions related to that. Does this. Because it folds up pretty tight. The chair does. Does it check as regular luggage or check as oversized?

It checks. Is regular. Okay.

I could take it. I don't travel much with it, but I've been thinking about it.

I mean, I. I travel because I'm only sharing it.

Yeah.

But when I get to my hotel room, when I'm off the flight, it's the first thing I set up.

Yeah. Yeah.

Travel fatigue, inflammation, or gravity boots in it.

Like. Like put on, like, the normatec boots.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the other one? Thera. Bodies.

There are bodies?

Yeah. I stack those in a gravity blanket with it, or traveling with a gravity blanket is. But then the other thing is. Not that anybody would ever want to do this, but you do have a loop function. Could I theoretically just, like, sleep all night in it? I wanted to. I'd say, my wife's gone, got nothing better to do. Gonna sit in my gravity chair.

We have one customer, and he swears by this, and he will. And he's. He has it down to a science. He's like, if I. If I. If I can get seven hours of sleep, he goes to bed and he gets seven hours of sleep. But if it's gonna be less, if it's gonna be four hours of sleep, which is pretty often for him.

Yeah.

He'll just loop shiftwave for four hours. Now, here's the crazy thing. He shows me his whoop data when he does the four hours in shift wave versus the Seven hours natural. He gets more deep sleep in that time. Yeah. When he's in the shift wave. He showed me the data. I was like, wow, okay, interesting. This is the project that could spin out a thousand PhDs to study all this. You know, I'm not making any claims around that. That's an n of 1. One customer does that, but he's figured out how to make it work for him.

That's interesting. The only thing I've found similar is if. I know. Let's say I'm going to bed. I know I'm not going to get in bed till like because I'm traveling. 11:00pm, I'm at some conference dinner. I got a flight out at 6am so I'm up at 4am If I take a mega dose of melatonin, I can feel similar to how I would on like seven hours of sleep. On four hours of sleep. I think it's just doing something to the sleep cycles where you're getting more deep. Sleep cycles where you're. Or a higher quality just with a very like 300 milligrams of melatonin.

Yeah. And it depends what you need. Right. If you need more REM or if you need more deep. Right. Have you had a physically demanding day? I probably need more deep. Have you had a psychologically demanding day? Probably need more rem. And that's one of the other things. And I'll just. With like my mom, she basically thought she never dreamed, which I think really means she never remembers. Yeah, Never remembered. Yeah, dream. But you know, my mom, she uses it 30 minutes a day.

Unless she's taking a pretty big edible before she goes to bed. Maybe she isn't dreaming.

And now she's like, she's remembering dreams for the first time in her life. So it's like. So that's that kind of REM side of things as well. There's so many avenues to explore here.

Yeah. That's interesting. When you look at it and you see the lineup of transducers, you don't think that it's as powerful as it actually feels when you sit in it. I remember the first time I sat in it it. And because it's not that loud when you just are standing beside it and somebody's in there and it's running. I mean, I'll ask the camera guys. Can you guys hear that very loud in here in the room? Yeah. But was it like. It's not like. It's not as loud as it feels because when you're in it, you're like, wow, this feels like it's just like shaking my whole body. And obviously there's a dial of intensity on the, on the level of the vibration, but it is, it is powerful.

I mean, it's, it's. This is kind of a reflection on the company as a whole. It's. It's rather unassuming. It's understated. It's built for function, not to be this big, glamorous wellness device. Our whole mission is make it work. We are here to deliver results, and that's what we're. That's what we do. And we let the results speak for themselves. We do a terrible job of, like, putting out too much marketing or anything. And. And we try to be even more understated in what we talk to the world about, because we see a lot of longevity for this market. This is going to do a lot of good for humanity, really. And we want to make sure that we're not blowing this out of proportion and turning into a hype cycle that. Where people don't believe it and trust it. And that even comes down to the form factor. You walk up to it and it's kind of like, what's this folding lawn chair going to do?

Yeah.

And then you come out of it and it's like.

Yeah.

And the most common response from people is wow.

Yeah.

And wow is important and it's almost universal. And wow.

I've dropped a lot of friends in on it.

And you get the wows.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow is an expression of being in a state of awe. You don't. At a state of oz. Basically, you've just experienced or seen something where you don't know how to classify it.

Yeah.

Right. We're very efficient. We have pigeonholes, cubbies for everything. Right. All our brain wants to be as lazy as possible, just put it in the cubby. But then all of a sudden, something happens that you've never experienced before. You don't know what it is, and that's a state of awe. And so now you need to build a new cubby system, which is neuroplasticity. The other part of a state of awe, which is very interesting, is it's a state where you're both sympathetically and parasympathetically aroused simultaneously. And there are very few things that do that in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, sex is one of them. It is both a sympathetic and parasympathetic arousal. And then you can have these moments that are just like, where they're so calming and soothing, but it's so new and fresh that you're engaged. And so we are both driving, sympathetic and parasympathetic. And then we're actually cycling between them. And this is how we're building in nervous system strength, nervous system flexibility. But by the end of it, you're aroused in both states, which is just a lovely state to be in.

Yeah. So during the lawn chair wow state, there is a fingertip sensor that you kind of have the option of putting on. What's that doing?

It's a pulse oximeter. So it's measuring your pulse. It's also measuring your SpO2, so your blood oxygen level. And then it's also going to give you a heart rate variability.

Score.

Score.

So now not just does it do heart rate too?

Does heart rate.

Okay, obviously it does heart rate variability. So heart rate variability, heart rate, oximetry, heart rate. And what was the last one?

Yeah, heart rate, heart rate variability and blood oxygen level.

Blood oxygen level. Okay. Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, that's SpO2, right?

SpO2. Okay. And now with. We just launched last week the shiftwave Pro, which is now with an iPad. And now the iPad has a mini lab on it.

We have a video that at the end of the show if people want to see it. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, you're one of the first to get to really see this and explore it. And now with that, you can see what's actually. So here's what we want to do. We developed all this in the lab. It's amazing what you see in the lab and it's amazing what we can do there. Now we want to start to bring the lab to the people. And so now you can start to see what's happening. You can get these very relevant data scores and then you can see. Actually start tracking this over time. It's not on the iPad. We actually built a computer companion app for you. And the notion being is the iPad's always with the machine, or maybe it's at your gym or wherever. You don't want that on there.

Your data later, while you're in bed.

That night or whatever, whatever happened, you can see what you did. And then we've also. And the biggest challenge we found is, you know, that this machine can do amazing things, but it really relies on you to know which protocol to pick, when, and for what. And that's actually a lot harder than it's sounds. And so with the new app we've built in an AI agent where you can literally say, I've got a headache I got three hours of sleep and I have a really important meeting in 20 minutes. What protocol should I do? And it'll give you multiple recommendations of protocols and it'll tell you which ones and why you should be doing it. Also give you a little bit of what's going on with you right now so you can understand it. And now you can like, okay, get that protocol. Pick it, use it. Have a great meeting.

That's so cool thing that I don't even know if I fully understand. So when you wear the. What do you call the sensor? Bio drive.

Yeah, so it's a. It's a pulse oximeter and then the mode is bio drive.

Okay. So when you wear the finger thingy in bio drive, is it adjusting the actual vibrations based on the data that is getting from my finger or is that just like interesting stuff for me to look at at later on?

It's adjusting in real time.

So it's like two way.

Yeah. And this is. And I'll. I'll explain in very simple terms. And we've patented it, which is also, you know, great, because now we can really expose what's happening to the world with this, is that it is measuring your. Your heart rate.

Okay.

And there's something known as respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which is your heart rate goes up as you're breathing in, and as you're breathing out, your heart rate's going down. And if your heart and respiration are synced up, this is what is often called a very coherent state. Okay. Right. And being in coherence is a very good state to be in. We drive you into that state by taking your heart rate, feeding it to you as the vibrations, and then you're breathing with it. And so now the vibrations and your respiration are working together to drive your heart rate up. And then as the vibrations drop down, it starts to drop down, you breathe out.

So am I following the vibrations or are the vibrations following me?

Both. Okay, so you, you should be following a fit, but you're also driving it. Okay, so all these systems are now working together.

Yeah.

And so as soon as you start to feel that little bit of vibration, you breathe in. That'll emphasize. Now your heart rate's gonna start to go up and the vibrations are gonna be triggering it and start pushing it up.

What if somebody just like freaks out and starts doing like Wim HOF style breath work? Will the chair start to try to vibrate to keep up?

It won't match your respiration. It'll match your heart Rate. So what'll happen at first if they, if you do Wim Hof with it is, you know, when you're doing the hyperventilation, you're increasing your heart rate.

Yeah.

And so it'll drive it, intensify it. And by the way, this is actually a great thing to do because the vibrations through the studies of whole body vibration are releasing more nitric oxide. And nitric oxide does a lot of things, relaxes the vasculature. But there's recent research that shows that it's not just carbon dioxide and oxygen that hemoglobin is working with, it's also nitric oxide. And so you want a third. That putting that third gas in there really helps. And I can tell you why we actually have a Wim Hof and he huge influence on me. Long ago I met him in a very intimate environment and did his class. I'm like, this is incredible.

Yeah.

And I was like, wow. And so I've programmed that in and it's amazing. I can take someone that's never done any hypoxic breath work and they will do shiftwave and they will by their third time be able to hold their.

Breath for three minutes from doing like a particular session on shiftwave.

Or is it a WIM hof? It's a Wim Hof Tummo style session.

Is that like a hidden one or.

Is that program called Vitality and Immunity?

Oh, that's what that is.

Yeah.

So when it like vibrates and. And releases. And vibrates and releases, that's what that's doing.

It's a hyperventilation. I thought it was like, oh my.

Gosh, this seems a little bit like Wim hof. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, that's interesting. I'm gonna have to try that one again. Like now knowing that background, that's interesting.

And there's another one. Total Vitality.

Interesting and cool because, you know, Wim Hof and several of his students showed some pretty remarkable immune enhancement to, you know, response to E. Coli toxin by doing that breath work.

I mean, I travel a lot. I. Whenever I get that little tickle in my throat, I'm straight into vitality immunity and reliably it knocks it out.

Okay, good to know.

So that's the one to do. And there's another one now. Total vitality.

Yeah.

Which is the. Basically it's Wim hof followed by 10 minutes of synthetic sleep.

The weighted blanket. We had that going on.

I talked about the boots that sometimes wear, even though those cover up a little bit of the Transducers for the lower legs. Kind of feels good to have the recovery boots on. Anything else that you have stacked with it or that people have successfully reported stacking with the shiftwave?

Yeah, a lot of things. And just on the boots.

Yeah.

It's interesting because the shiftwave, we started seeing amazing results around recovery. You know, it started with an NFL player during training camp. He got one. They had one of their most grueling days. He did an hour shift wave that night. He showed up at training camp the next day. Everyone is just like, you know, complaining. He's like, I don't know what you guys are talking about. I feel great. And so we actually dove into this and we've studied it with a couple major sports research labs and then also in our lab. So that sensor you had in your forehead. Yeah, I put that on my hamstring and that measures total blood volume. And what I found is when I was doing synthetic sleep, that there was five and a half times more blood moving in and out of my hamstring muscle. And so. And it's doing it through its own.

Natural need to wear those.

So it's. I'm. I think all things are great and I encourage people to use all the tools, but one of the things is that, you know, the compression booths, they work through. Through a different effect. What they do is it's. It's blood occlusion. Yeah, occlusion. Occlusion. Thank you. So blood occlusion. So it's like pushing it all out and then it rushes in at the end. Right. And what this is doing is it's like. This is more like breathing. So the capillaries are all opening up and moving and probably strengthening those mechanisms and happening. But I wouldn't want to occlude the blood while you're trying to do that.

Yeah.

You know, you might want to just do those in sequence. And I think shiftwave really stacks well in sequence with a lot of things. Right. And things you might not think of. Like therapy. We have a lot of therapists that are using this because someone comes in and they're in a heightened emotional state, it's really hard to have a conversation and get any place deeper. Yeah. So if they can fully regulate their nervous system. Now they're having a real conversation right away. Yeah.

Get them into the lawn chair whilst they.

Physical therapist. Same thing. Massage therapists. The massage therapist for the world champion NBA team, she swears by it.

Wow.

She puts them in first. Tissue tone is completely different. She just is able to get in and do the deep work because little massage therapists, half what they're trying to do is get you to relax your nervous system. So this kind of sequencing has been really important, you know, and we've also seen it. You know, we do a lot of work, work in Ukraine. Right. So if anyone's in a heightened stress state or experienced extreme trauma, being able to downregulate them and now they can go into other modalities with it. You know the one I'm excited. I haven't really fully tested yet but the, you know, the guys, and we have no affiliation with them, whatever, but I just tried it was using the higher dose, has this red light blanket.

Oh yeah.

And the thing about that is it's just, it just goes right over your. It's like wearing a weighted, a weighted blanket and shift wave is amazing. Right?

Yeah.

So this is like a weighted blanket that's doing red light therapy. That's pretty cool.

It's weighted too, huh?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's heavy. So I, I think that.

Yeah, yeah. I also have found any of the so called adaptogens like rhodiola ashwagandha, even like shilajit, like any of these things that kind of help to tune up the nervous system about a half hour before. Because a lot of times I'm in that thing around like 2:30. Right. So I'll finish up lunch, take some around two. I'm in there in about 30 minutes. And those seem to enhance the effects.

Absolutely. And you know, I gotta, I gotta give you some. Thanks. I just recalled this, you know, I was a scientist getting into this world from a very scientific. And then all of a sudden realized I'm like, oh, I guess I'm kind of like a biohacker now. Yeah, I better learn about what biohacking is. And so I went and got your book Boundless.

Oh, no way.

And it became like my like, you know, oh, this is biohacking book. But the section on all the different supplementation. You should have seen the shop where we're building shiftwave. I mean I had everything in your book.

That's funny.

And I was testing it with Shiftwaves. And I'll tell you like that polysaccharis ant. The black ant.

Yeah, Black ant extract.

Wow, that gets you going.

Lost Empire herbs. That's, that's. I haven't had it in a while, but yeah, yeah.

And so sometimes it was good because they get me so amped up. I could see a shift wave brings down, but I'll tell you the one with Shiftway that we got into this competition, my co founder and I, of how slow we could keep respiratory heart rate coherence. So how slow can you bring your breathing pattern down and have the heart still be coherent? And we're both pretty competitive people. And what we found is that we had to start supplementing to be able to drop it down slower. And one of the ones that helped the most was ashwagandha because it just relaxes the whole vasculature and just allows you to slow down. And we're able to get down to like 1.8 breaths per minute and stay coherent by doing that.

You guys have done a lot of studies. You could probably just talk for another hour about all the different studies you've done. Been to your website, you've done stuff on performance. You mentioned some recovery, lymph flow. What is, do you think, the most cool or surprising thing you found from any of the studies you've done to date or even something that was just like shocking or interesting?

Yeah, the, the synthetic sleep is definitely was very shocking just to be able to put a person into this state where you just, just imagine where if you have, you know, 10 channels of data coming in and just looks kind of like garbled. It's, you know, and then now you start to just drive it and they all just align into these perfect, like sinusoidal waves where they're all lined up and just the amplitudes are just going through the roof.

Yeah.

Like, just to see that in the data in front of you is like, wow, this is a completely different state for the human body and mind. And in my opinion, it's like, oh, wow, this is our natural operating state.

Yeah.

And I see where you live out here and I understand why modern life has just driven us out of that state so hard. I mean, every cam, every little alert, every message, I don't think people realize that it's just pinging your nervous system.

Yeah.

So if you're trying to regulate, it's just like, yeah, just hitting you, hitting you, hitting you, hitting you. And then it's just stacking throughout the day. And then God forbid you get something that's actually really stressful on top of that. And we were in this, just such a fragile state. We should be in the same thing.

Go sleep in your EMF infused bedroom.

Oh my God.

Your nervous system is still a little bit.

And then you don't get good sleep and then you wake up and you're already dysregulated. We should Just be this cycling thing. Like, we are. We are a cycling being. We are on a cycling planet, you know.

Yeah, it's.

I saw the leaves changing the fall here.

Workout, recover. Yeah.

And the. And these cycles, they permeate throughout us, you know, and it's. You know, we're on an annual cycle. You know, there's a monthly cycle. We obviously have our daily diurnal cycle that we're on. Right. Cortisol spikes and all that. But then you start to look at it, you know, our gut has a cycle and, you know, our gut cycling about three. Three times a minute. So that's what we're cycling. And there's the peristalsis of that. Our heart is a cycle. Right. It's cycling about, you know, 60 times a minute, you know, and then brain waves are all on a cycle.

Yeah, right.

That's. That's what the frequency of brains is, just how fast they're cycling.

Yeah.

And so we're just this cycling being. And so just being able to reinstill that into you at a very fundamental level across all your systems is a way to bring you back into this internal harmony. It's. It's like actually being in a flow state where everything is flowing and working together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's gonna be pretty cool for people to see me with all the weird things and sticky wires and electrodes you had attached to me and what happened. Keep watching, you guys, because you're gonna get to see, like, how much the heart rate and the heart rate variability and all the parameters related to the nervous system respond to this thing to. So if you're listening right now, you can also access the video@BenGreenfieldLife.com ShiftwavePodcast I do have, like, deals and discounts on this thing, too, that I'll put in there. And Mike and I even have a special message for you at the end. You're gonna want to stay tuned for. So, Mike, this is super cool. I've always kind of wanted to meet, like, the mind behind this chair. Cause I've been using it for, like, I think a year and a half now, so thank you for making it. And it's just the coolest lawn chair ever, so I appreciate you, man.

Thanks, Ben. And, you know, I read your book, boy, gosh, man, it was eight years ago. So that has been infused into the work that I've been doing. And you listen to my voice every day. And I know we just met in person, but I feel like we've listened.

To your voice now because I'm stalking you. If people missed that. He's actually the voice of some of the protocols in Shiftwave. So some have voices, some don't. But if they have voices, there's a high likelihood you're going to come across Mike. So there you go. Thanks, man.

Awesome. Thank you, man.

Cool.

We've just brought a research grade psychophysiology lab here. Sick. So this is going to measure all sorts of different biometrics off your body. So we're going to be looking at first the vibrations of the chair, so we can map that to what it's doing to you and be looking at your electrodermal activity, which is a measurement of your sympathetic activation. So we get a good look at what's happening with your nervous system.

Okay.

We'll get your respiration, obviously. Obviously that's important. Looking at your ecg so we can see your heart rate. With that, we're going to do a very special one where we look at the blood flow in your brain. So we'll be able to see that. Pretty cool with that.

Wow.

Yep. And. And a few other metrics that I'll go through when we're collecting them all.

So first of all, we just got.

To get you wired up.

Yeah.

We're going to put a lead two ECG on you.

So.

Okay.

I mean, you know what this is, but. Yeah.

Where every lead goes, you know, you can just let's you be in charge.

Just the lead. There's lead one, which measures across the top vector of the heart, and the lead two measures across this vector. So we're just going to have a ground down here and then the one that's measuring up there.

Cool.

And then we'll put one more up here somewhere.

Top.

Yeah.

And then we'll put these on your fingers. So electrodermal activity, it's a measurement of the change in the electrical potential impedance in your fingertips.

Okay.

You can also do it on your palms. Yeah. And so you're gonna be sitting on that side. Let's do here.

So when you're preparing for activity, the body senses that, and it opens up your sweat glands because you're going up for spire.

Okay.

And when those open up, it lets out this ionic fluid.

Yeah.

And when that comes out, we can measure the change in impedance. It's a very sensitive measurement of your sympathetic nervous system. Turning on.

Yeah.

All right, we're done with those.

That's so interesting. If you had asked me like three days ago, I wouldn't have known the sweat onset was helpful for tracking Something like sympathetic arousal. It makes sense.

Yeah.

And then I was just randomly at a lab down in Malibu a few days ago and they did not. Not using this technology. Something a little different.

Breathe out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Yeah.

Yeah. Tight, but not too tight. Cool. So obviously your chest expands. There's a sense in here.

Yeah.

Respiratory effort transducer.

Okay.

All right. Now you can unseat. Okay.

Still cold.

We could have measured your sympathetic arousal.

Warm Japanese toilet seat.

There's an idea for you vibration warmers.

You know, they do warm up as see can you. You know.

Yeah, I do.

Yeah. Our. Our one of our friends at a.

Big sports research group.

He. Who I won't mention his name, but he insists that you. You've got to use shift waves naked.

He's got a good disinfection bottle wherever he.

Yeah. Shift wave. Well, he says he gets more senses it more into his skin way.

But it does.

Add that to my list of things to try.

My co founder in this. He started this company in the 1980s and they're used across virtually every research university in the world.

Wow.

And so the BioPac thing is. Yeah, the BioPac. And so we said, hey, we want to be able to measure the amount of blood.

Yeah.

And in the brain. And he said, oh, I could make a sensor for that. And so this is going to become a product now what you're putting on. But this is the first prototype.

Wow.

Amazing. And I won't go into the technicalities of it, but it's fairly complicated thing to do.

Cool.

Just vanilla.

One of the requests is we. We add some wires if you want. We need more wires.

More wires.

You know, it's. It's funny when we made shift waves because I was doing all this in the lab and there's a few wires, but just a couple.

Yeah.

And so then people are like, there's too many wires. I'm like, you have no idea what it took to develop this.

And you know, I think we're doing something like eight channels here in the lab. I would get. So I would have 16 channels wired up. Wow. But I would wire myself up. Yeah. And then do the experiment.

Yeah.

Which is added level of difficulty. And of course this is probably the most important one.

Yeah.

This isn't going into the lab.

Yeah.

This is going to the chair. So the chair is going to be driving you in the bio drive mode here.

Okay.

And we have a new algorithm. So this is the new shiftwave Pro.

Yeah. That's sick. The iPad.

With the iPad. Air. Have you seen this?

No.

Now you can select your different protocols here.

Awesome.

You know, so they're broken up. You can have your favorites. So you can just go straight to the ones that you love.

Is it connected to the chair?

The iPad somehow, yeah. So this is now controlling the chair.

How?

So that that control box is gone.

Oh. How's it connected though?

So there's two ways to connect it. This, there's a little module that plugs into the back.

Yeah.

To talks. Bluetooth to this. And if you don't want Bluetooth, you can just put a wire in to connect. Connect the two.

Cool.

Together.

That's sick.

Just. You know, some people love Bluetooth, some people won't have it. And then you have all the protocols. We update them automatically, so then you have access to it.

And the other one you updated just by updating the USB drive, right?

Yeah, it was like old school DJ style. So now we can just load them up to you. And then the way we've moved on with Bio Drive is we realized that we need to make Bio Drive specific. Specific protocols. And so now at the bottom there's a.

There's some that, that feel like they don't need Bio Drive.

It doesn't work.

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work.

Yeah. And you want to like ease someone into Bio Drive. And so we've made this whole series now. So today we're going to do SS Meditate.

Okay.

And by the way, this is not even the released version you're seeing. This is the founders dev version, but it's of the app. Cool. Cool. New feature we're playing with is putting a pre session survey in so you can start to do a stress survey before and after with it. And then of course you got the mini lab here. And so now we're taking what we've done here and we're starting to integrate it into the iPad. So now you can see your pulse, you can see your heart rate going up and down. Yeah. After five minutes. Because you need five minutes, as you know, to get an HRV score. You'll get your HRV 100% SpO2. Of course.

Good job.

But then you'll be able to monitor all that and then at the end you get scores. And we have a companion app where it pops up on the companion app.

Yeah.

So this just kind of like runs the machine, right? And then you have your own personal.

App, like on my phone.

Yeah, yeah. What programs have you done? And then they'll show you all your data and you can track it there.

So I could even track, like, which program seem to have the highest impact on HRV or 100%.

I don't do it every time I do ride the tiger through the roof.

I want to do more.

Ride the tiger and then also has an AI agent in it, which is, I'm sure you noticed the first time you got your shift wave. Yeah, it works great if you know which protocol to select.

Yeah.

And so now as an AI Agent, it's like, I've got a headache. I didn't sleep well. I've got a meeting in 10 minutes. What protocol should I do? And then it'll tell you what to do. You found everything? Yeah. Cool. Let me just attach this last one.

Okay.

For the vibrations.

I do have. Oh, never mind.

You have in there.

I was gonna say, if I need an eye mask, there's one here.

You've got the. It'll be good to get your feedback kind of a.

We're at a debate point of this eye mask or the old one that we had.

Oh. So, yeah. I mean, that's my mask aficionado. That looks good, though.

Try it. Try it.

Yeah.

All right.

It's not bad. Blocks light.

Hopefully it doesn't mess up your hair, you know? Yeah. You know, the guys that are most sensitive about their hair?

Like, what sector of guys?

Yeah.

Well, I don't know. Probably not firefighters or.

Construction workers or people who wear helmets for a living. But besides that, I have no clue.

Navy seals.

That'S kind of weird.

Stuff. Isn't supposed to get to Navy seals?

No, they just. They just have perfect hair somehow weird. So let me just make sure all the biometrics are going here, and of course, I'll show you all this data at the end.

I'm assuming you guys have used a weighted blanket before with the shiftwave. It's the best because you get that extra pressure against the nodules.

Wow.

That's what I'm talking about. Just another day at the office.

I'm just gonna put headphones on so you can just drop into a deeper state.

Also, tell me what you think of these. Also testing new headphones.

Wider. Yeah. You know, they've gone to on ear.

So that they don't touch the cushion.

Yeah.

So you don't get the vibration.

Cool.

All right, so this is SS Meditate. In the beginning, you can just relax. And then as the waves slow down, then you're going to start breathing in as the vibrations increase and breathe out as the vibrations decrease.

See, this is the vibrations going up and down. And this is his Heart rate starting to entrain with the vibrations.

So as we go, we're going to look for these two to synchronize vibrations up. Heart rate up. And you can see that he's just dropping in right away. So nicely in sync. Those are.

Until this is entrainment across physiological systems. So he's breathing with the vibrations, breathing in and out. And now it's time dropping into the bio drive mode. So now it's going to be him driving it.

They're starting to figure each other out. The algorithm's trying to find where he's at and he's trying to find where it's at so that they can become coherent together.

I mean, it's really meant to be when you're awake and breathing with it. So it's doing an amazingly good job for someone that's asleep. Yeah.

This is his breathing. So he's just got super shallow, fast breath.

I'm tempted to switch over to the more powerful algorithm.

So he's. He's asleep and you really need to actively breathe with it to engage the system. So somehow it's still doing a pretty good job. But I have a more sophisticated system on my laptop that I could use for this situation.

We might switch over to it.

Cozy in there?

It's pretty cozy. Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Great.

That's why I don't travel with these things.

Yeah.

Somebody used to make one. You could just fill a little water.

How'd it do?

You did great.

Good news is I got enough data. Good. Bad news. There must have been a solar flare or something. All of a sudden this. Didn't want to talk to the computer after a little while. Weird. Yeah. Which is annoying. Yeah. But we did. I did get a chance to switch over too.

This is pretty tight. It's interesting.

Yeah, it feels pretty stiff.

I wasn't sure if you were a non responder on the eda. Really? And then I pinched your fingers and you responded. It just looks like you just get super relaxed in this. Like you're just.

You're just like anything that involves switching off a nervous system, I can do really well. Like, I can. I can check out like in the middle of the day pretty easily if I need to. But.

Most people, this is like driving them up and down you. You were just like.

Going to your happy place.

Yeah, well, the chair helps with that.

You've acclimated to it. Yeah.

All right, cool.

Maybe the cool thing we saw is that this is your. Your heart rate. Yeah. Before.

And then once we turned on shift wave, you just see what happens? So the more this is, is the more heart rate variability.

Yeah.

So it just really just started driving your heart rate up and down. Yeah. So just greatly increasing your. Your heart rate variability, man.

See, catch that on the camera. Just how intense that shift is. You can see where it's just like tightly packed hrv. Then all of a sudden the variability just goes way up.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. And this is your electrodermal activity. That's why I was like, it's just dropping. That's when I pinched your finger. Oh, no, no, he's alive. And then you were like, oh, no, I'm going back to just chilling out. And then I did switch over to this other algorithm here where I got a little bit of data there. So finding these sweet spots.

Yeah.

Where you're just nicely cycling like that. So, yeah, you know, I come in and I zoom in on that.

It's like, okay, what is this, what is this rate here where you just seem to be really happy and then you can start to look at the.

And so this is where the customization aspect comes in. You're able to see.

Yeah.

I'm assuming something like the, the style of the vibration or something like that. And you know, like what my body responds best to.

Yeah, like we all have kind of a sweet spot for where we want to be cycling our nervous system. So sympathetic parasympathetic heart rate up and down. And then other systems, systems of the body and trained to that. And so that's why we've built bio drive into this. And so it automatically is adapting to it. So this is when bio drive was on. It starts to find that pattern and to see how really sweet it gets. Right in here.

Yeah.

It's like. Okay. And especially you compare that to how you were before.

So when you isolate that right there, what is it that you are looking at in conjunction with that? Isolation? Like what aspects of the shift wave system?

Yeah, the, the intensity period is like the patterning of it. Periodicity.

Okay.

I can also look at like how quickly your heart's kind of engaging and disengaging. Like, see how it drops off very rapidly here. Right. So that's great. Yeah. That means that your parasympathetic system is able to engage.

Yeah.

Quickly. And some people just tapers. Right. So they don't get that strong parasympathetic engagement.

And the ultimate goal here, I guess, for the, for the people watching, because, you know, we, we kind of jumped right in. But the idea is that if you haven't already Heard on the podcast, everybody's nervous system is different. And this would give you a way to customize the chair to your nervous system based on what your nervous system responds best to. So it's basically like a custom program.

Yep, exactly. In the lab, you know, we've done thousands of experiments.

Yeah.

And we saw.

Wow.

A lot of people, they kind of honed to the similar space, but it's a bell curve. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then there's outliers, but there's. There's about, you know, 10, 20% of optimization left. And so. And it also. It's not just different per person. It's different per person, per time of day, per season, per. What's stress level. Right.

So.

So you're going to just vary. Right. And so just we said, you know, let's take what we do on the lab and let's embed it in this. Give it the intelligence. So now you can sit down, and it's going to optimize for you in that moment.

Oh, that's even cooler.

Wow.

Wow.

And then it's just. It's infinitely extensible at that point. You know, it's not the same program every time.

Right.

You're getting something new.

So. So I guess the way I think thought about it when you told me you could do a custom program is it would just be like, whatever, Colin, you have a ride the tiger. You have Ben Greenfield.

Oh, we're going to do that too.

But what you're saying is, like, even that one program can dynamically adapt to where I'm at at any given moment if I'm wearing the bio drive sensor.

Exactly.

And that's pretty cool.

Your custom protocol might be. Hey, I need something just to shake all the stress out of my. I just got back from la. I just need. I need to purge.

Yeah.

Shake that all out of me. And then I want to drop into a deep regeneration state, and then I want to go into Bio Drive, where I know it's. It's optimizing for me right now in this moment.

Yeah.

Which also has an element of meditation to it.

Yeah.

Because you got to pay attention, and if your mind starts wandering, you might lose it.

Yeah.

And then you say, but then I got to work after this, so I want to drop out of Bio Drive, and then I want to wake up growing, like, go time. Activate my sympathetic nervous system. So I'm like, super alert for whatever.

I'm about to do. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys have preset programs like that, too. I've noticed where you Kind of like start, drop in, get relaxed, and then get charged up. So you're back to the office afterwards.

Yeah, Exactly. We've got 60 different protocols that do all sorts of different things from. Yeah, there's Neuroboost, which is that nine minutes. Yeah, I got a meeting in 10 minutes. I gotta be on it. Yeah, Deeper Generation Ones. And now we can start to integrate Bio drive into the protocols as well. So we can make you a custom one with that fully integrated into it. That's cool.

That's cool.

So I think that's probably what we'll do. Yeah. Sweet. And then it's also. What do you want to be focusing on thinking about now? So I've done ones for NFL quarterbacks. It integrates sports psychology into it, but in a medium of enjoy.

Yeah. Almost like visualization.

Visualization through a rap song, you know, so it's like the medium where they are giving what they need to be hearing and then at the same time totally regulating their system for what they're about to go do.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Cool.

Yeah.

Awesome.

What kind of music do you want?

Well, it depends on. On what the goal would be. Um, I am more of. I would say for the purposes like this, more of like a Hans Zimmer epic movie soundtrack, you know, no lyrics kind of guy.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can do that.

Yeah.

We have a. An incredible audio engineer. It's produced music for all sorts of TV series.

Yeah.

This one has a. She has two PhDs, one in haptics and in music composition. And then we have a psychologist on our team. And so this is our content team.

Yeah. And obviously it depends, you know, that, you know, whether it's you. Deep relaxation is just like pretty passive stuff. And then.

Yeah.

You know, pick you up, focus, get back to work. That's where. Yeah, that's where I'll. I'll tend to go a little bit more kind of like no lyrics, dub steppy, you know, type of stuff.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So we could do Hans Zimmer into some dub steppy stuff.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, There we go.

I like a good challenge.

But that's the thing.

I was so new.

Yeah, it'll be cool though. And people be like, oh, wow, I.

Want to try that.

Yeah, that's not been done before.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's why it's called custom.

Then they did a little quick plot of just your hrv so we can start to look at that. HRV shot up.

Yeah, it went up big time. Yeah, I show that on the camera. If you guys can get a shot of that. Like how much the HRV went up just in. I mean, I was in there 30 minutes.

Yeah.

It's a significant increase. Yeah.

Dropped you and your HRV was great to begin with. Yeah. So, yeah. Cool. This is it. It's just exercising your autonomic nervous system. So it's a strengthening program and it's also building flexibility.

Yeah.

And I think this is something that's really important is you want to be able to turn on and then turn off so you can recharge and regroup, group and think clearly.

Yeah.

But then be able to go again.

Right. So before Mike takes off here, we decided that one cool thing that we want to do for any of you who decide you want to get a shiftwave charitus for yourself is he and I are going to arrange doing a webinar where we answer your questions and we hear your feedback and we get a chance to meet and greet you. And so what will happen is if you get a shift work, it'll be in anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks. After you get it, you will get contacted by Mike and me and the team from shiftwave and we'll tell you when and where to go. So we're going to throw that bonus in for you. Go to BenGreenfieldLife.com ShiftWavePodcast you can find link to get one and there's nothing else to do. You'll automatically kind of be in and you'll find out when the webinar is going to happen.

Yeah, exactly. We want to help people get the most out of this. And once you have it, you're going to have a lot of questions. And this is also a way to learn from your community what else other people are doing and how they're using it so you can get the most out of it because it really is life changing. Once you fully discover the power of.

Shiftwave, show notes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com Shiftwave podcast all the things that Mike and I talk about. You can see pictures, you see videos. I get a juicy deal, juicy discount for you guys through Shiftwave. So that'll all be over there as well. BenGreenfieldLife.com Shiftwave Podcast do you want free access to comprehensive show notes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life and a whole lot more. Check out BenGreenfieldLife.com it's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com See you over there. Most of you who listen don't subscribe like or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then huge thank you. But here's why it's important to subscribe like and or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings. And the bigger the Ben Greenfield Live show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So hit subscribe, subscribe, Leave a ranking, leave a review. If you got a little extra time, it means way more than you might think. Thank you so much.