Optimizing Testosterone, Hair Regrowth, And The Truth About Peptide Stacks with Jay Campbell

This is completely, unequivocally proven now that all hair loss is called by blood flow restriction to the scalp. Okay? It's not caused by dht, it's not caused by this, that and the other. It's caused by flow restriction to the scalp, which ultimately, okay, can be caused by a thousand different things. You know, heavy metal contamination, overexposure to sun, you know, sweating, anxiety, too much insulin, too much sugar, too much alcohol. I mean, again, it's like a thousand things can cause blood flow restriction to your scalp. But I will say this, that I have androgenic alopecia. My dad's. I mean, my mom's dad was bald, and I would probably be bald right now, Ben. And since I started using this product off and on, you know, when I had access to it, which has only been in the last couple of months now, the new one, Oxana, ran out last year in September. I've regrown my hair.

All right. My guest on today's podcast has been on the show before, twice. He did this big podcast with me a couple years ago about hair growth and about reversing hair loss and about all these crazy things you can rub into your scalp. And that was a great episode. I'll link to that in the show notes. And then he also came back with one of his buddies, and actually that. That hair growth one was actually with his buddy Nick Andrews. But then he. Before that, he was on my podcast talking about metformin and if metformin is really dangerous and kind of like early on in the peptide days, was sharing a lot of these peptides for muscle gain and for fat loss. We talked about testosterone optimization therapy and a lot more. And he's just a wealth of knowledge, kind of. I would describe him as kind of like this cowboy biohacker who's kind of like deep into the science, but really does a good job expressing it to the layperson. If you're watching the video version, you can also see a video of him and see that he does indeed practice what he preached. My guess is a is a fit guy himself. His name's Jay Campbell. Jay not only has a fantastic book about testosterone optimization therapy, but he also has a host of other super helpful courses, many of which I'll link to in the show notes, which you can find@BenGreenfieldLife.com limitless life. He has a peptides course. He has a testosterone optimization course. And perhaps most relevant to today's discussion, Jay sent me a package last week full of peptides. Now, I usually go through a doctor to get my peptides. But based on a few conversations I've had offline with Jay and some of the stuff he's been sending me, he's been able to actually make peptides accessible to people who want to order them from the Internet without going through a doc and want access to some really, really interesting stacks that I honestly have all sorts of questions about Jay because I started using this stuff and feel like I'm a teenager right now with whatever you sent me that I've been injected into my body and, and yes, my wife is taking the tanning peptide and she's very, very happy about it because she's developing this tan. Beautiful, you know, like not, not an orange fake spray tan, but she's getting tan and we could talk about that one. And the reason I'm avoiding it because it gives me erections that leave me on end. But we can't, we can get into all that. So again folks, the shownotes are going to be@BenGreenfieldLife.com limitless life. I'll link to all Jay's stuff along with all these peptides and nootropics and everything we talk about. I'll throw discount codes, all that jazz in there for you. So anyways, Jay, you ready to do this?

Let's do it. Ben, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. I love and appreciate you, my brother.

I love and appreciate you too, man. And I gotta ask you because I don't even know if we talked about this in, in the past before, but I'm sure people will want to know like what is your actual background? Because I know, I mean you're not a physician, but you know a lot of stuff when it comes to the deep science. So tell me about your background in all this.

Yeah, so I mean I have a college degree, Bachelor of science. My major is international relation. I do have a minor in molecular biology. So I was always kind of a science nerd, you know, going through school. But as you guessed it, and like most guys like us, you know, I'm pretty much self learned and you know my story, which I gave on the first podcast, which I'm not going to, you know, provide here, go back and listen to the first podcast. Like you said, it was amazing. You know, since I started therapeutic testosterone after getting kicked in the testicles playing basketball in my late 20s, I just became this amazing, you know, astute student of Pep PubMed, you know, Medline, what we had access to back then, I mean I'm 52 years old so, I mean, you know, this goes way back now, 23 years. I've been using testosterone in almost 20 years, using therapeutic peptides. So, you know, at that time, Ben, it was just kind of the wild, wild west on the Internet. And thankfully, I had access to PubMed and Medline from the relationships and the friends that I met and stuff like that. And so I just really, like you said, you know, biohacked myself, was my own lab rat, was very meticulous about what I did until eventually, you know, enough people who knew me were like, dude, you got to write a book about this. And so obviously, I wrote my first book, which was the definitive TRT manual. It was actually done in 2014, but published in 2015.

Was that the one we just broadcast on the TRT manual we did?

The one we did was the second one, which was the much more advanced one, which was.

That was fantastic. Like, that taught me so much about aromatase inhibitors and injections versus creams versus pellets. It's still one of the go to resources. You know, you have that folder on your computer where you keep all the PDFs that you don't want to delete. It's in there. And I still review that. I still go back to when people have questions about testosterone. I've sent that to doctors who do hormone replacement therapy, who have changed some of the things that they're doing just based off of what you wrote in that book. And I won't. I won't dwell on that too much just because we have a whole podcast on it. I'll link to it in the show notes along with the book. But, you know, just to interrupt your story, I don't want to derail you too much, but you said you got kicked in the testicles and that's what got you into testosterone therapy.

Yeah, I mean, I was a, you know, ex college and pro basketball player, and I still played in men's competitive leagues. And it was when I was 29, almost 30. It was close to being 30 when I got kicked and, you know, just went out of the game, you know, keeled over, and about six, seven weeks later started feeling the effects of what I had no idea at the time was, you know, type two hypogonadism. So I was lucky enough to go to a PPO doctor.

And type 2 hypogonadism, that means it's not coming from your brain, it's coming from your testicles. That. That you can't.

Yeah, it's essentially what they refer to as environmental testosterone deficiency.

Okay.

And the PPO doctor that I went to recommended me to a urology. I mean, endocrinologist. Again, as you know, there's no coincidence. It's only synchronicities in the universe. And the guy that he recommended me to was a guy by the name of Dr. Raymond Scruggs, who happened to be in Harvard educated endocrinologist who was in Orange County, California. And I met with him and he was like, this is weird. Let me run your testosterone. And when he did, you know, I had like a testosterone level. I don't remember. This is back in 1999, but like 180 to 220 or something. So, you know, classically low. And he told me that I could start therapeutic testosterone and get myself right as rain. And he said, go home, talk to your fiance at the time and find out if you guys are good with it. And so, of course she was like, well, you're a smart guy. Yeah, sure. And then started using it. At that time, even then, there wasn't the obviously advanced protocols that we have now. But as he said, within six to seven weeks, bro, I felt absolutely amazing. And so when I went back to him and he wanted to withdraw me, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to come off this. And so then from that point, you know, I was 30, 30 and a half. I just became a student of testosterone and of course, various other biohacking things. And eventually, 12 years later, I wrote the book, you know, the, the first one, which is the TRT manual in 2014, and then of course the TOT Bible, which was written in 2018. And then you and I spoke like three months later. But, you know, to, to the original.

Question, did you know, by the way, self taught, did you know that. That I also had a testicular injury? I. I used to ride motorcycles a lot. I was super into motocross and, and not really racing, but I just did a lot, like every. I was homeschooled. And so typically I'd finish school around 11am or noon, and I'd just be out dirt biking for like the next two or three hours. And we had all these trails cut through our land. I grew up on about six acres and in North Idaho. And so I had this, this whole track out in the backyard. And as I was going around one of the corners at about. I was probably doing, you know, 30, 35 miles an hour. So I was really busting through this corner. The front wheel hit a rock and I went flying over the handlebars. And the only thing that stopped me and slowed me down was my crotch, like, ripped into the handlebars, sent me flat, flipping and sliding about 30ft. And I laid there for two hours until somebody found me because I couldn't walk, I couldn't move. One of the landscapers actually found me, dragged me up to the house where they actually had an ambulance come and bring me to the hospital. My testicles were already at that point like the size of baseballs. And I had to go through a series of visits to the urologist, to the endocrinologist. They weren't sure if I was going to be able to have kids. I remember the thing I was most pissed about was I had to miss the entire basketball season that year because I couldn't jump, I couldn't run, and damn, you know, it wasn't until I, I conceived twins with my wife that I realized I actually was fertile. I hadn't done any, you know, sperm morphology tests or anything like that. But yeah, I, I, the, the, the ultimate outcome of that really, besides taking great care to protect my testicles and contact sports and motorbiking, was I've been shy on motorcycles ever since. But I don't think it resulted in any type of secondary hypogonadism on my part. I think I induced more primary Hypogonadism through like 20 years of endurance racing, a low carb diet and kind of a masochistic amount of exercise. And maybe we can get into that at some point. But ultimately, back to your story, the testosterone optimization manual that you wrote. You said you were in 2015 and that that's, that's where I, I interrupted your story.

Yeah, no, exactly. Well, I mean, I, I have more questions about you. So for me, you know, the doctor was like, we're, he's guessing that it was a combination of environmental factors, obviously, and then also being kicked, which, as you know, and we can, you're right, we can get deeper into this. Now. I literally just came back from AMMG's medical conference and, and this is congenital. Dr. Rudolph Eberwine, who works at a clinic in South Florida, did a presentation on EDCs on endocrine disrupting chemicals. And it was Ben, one of the top five presentations that I have ever seen at any medical conference. And I've been heading, I've been going to the medical conferences now for 11 years. And it was just about like, how bad it is right now out in the world for young men due to, again, all these environmental contaminants. So it's interesting because you know, know, then it wasn't nearly as bad for you and I back then. Obviously, you were injured and, you know, I was injured. But it's crazy how bad the environment is contaminated. I know. You know, Dr. Anthony J. And, you know, he wrote his book Estrogeneration. He started talking about this and was really the first guy. But now it's like, measured in the studies. There's all sorts of peer review. So he published a study, or he didn't publish a study, but he presented information about a study that's like three years old. It shows that one out of four men between the ages of 20 and 35 have a testosterone deficiency. And the problem with that information is that that's only the men that are being measured. So imagine how bad it really is, because a lot.

A lot of guys will only measure if they feel like something's wrong. So there's probably more people out there. Did it come up at all at the medical conference, anything that surprised you as far as environment? Because a lot of people are aware, Jay. Right. Of like plastics and styrofoam and maybe the BPA on receipts at the gas station or something like that. But were there any particular elements that really surprised you as far as environmental barriers when it comes to testosterone production?

Yeah, I mean, I. I don't think your audience is. Because you cover this so well and you do such deep dives with so many different people on this. But, dude, dirty electromagnetic frequencies are in the major cities are absolutely terrible. So, you know, obviously you already know about blue light. I mean, let's just put it this way. It's almost inescapable now for younger men and women. I mean, right now we have the worst fertility crisis in the history of the world. I mean, again, and since first world being measurement, it's very difficult for mid-30s and early-40s couples to have kids, especially if you live, again, in large urban coastal population centers. I mean, it is really, really bad. And I think it comes from everywhere. Again, blue light, computer screens being fixed on, technology from video games and Netflix and all this stuff. It's rewiring dopaminergic pathways the brain.

So that. So that would be a lot of the primary hypogonadism. You're not saying, like, if you're shining blue light on your balls, what you're saying is the actual exposure to some of these electromagnetic frequencies can result in more of a primary hypogonadal effect.

It's definitely both. I mean, you know, if you talk to the docs, you know, they, when they get a six, I mean, this is, you know, the normal story now. A 16 to 18 to 20 year old kid comes in, their parents bring them in and then they say, my son, you know, had a testosterone test done, you know, with direct labs or private IMD labs or you know, one of the independent places and he has a 150, a 120. I mean I had, I was talking to doctors or seeing kids who are under 20 that have 70 less sub 100 total testosterone and free testosterone levels that are like basically non existent. And the only thing that they can, you know, extrapolate or you know, basically pontificate is that it's due to video games, lack of exercise, obviously crappy food, you know, just young men are not. And you know, this goes actually to women too, because you could make the same argument with women in that many of them are quote unquote, you know, reaching puberty earlier, menstruating earlier. It's just basically the, the way that they are living is different than the way that you and I lived. People are not outside grounding in nature. They're not taking part in athletics. Again, there's obviously various people that are, but the majority is not, not, not my sons.

Maybe I need to buy my son some EMF blocking underwear which I actually own and use. I'm not like brand specific, but I think there's one company called Lambs, there's another company called Snowballs and they make the icing underwear or the underwear that keeps the temperature cool, which is a whole different discussion. But man, my sons are eating fresh eggs from the chickens. They're outside in the sunshine all day. They're rarely on devices except for school. And they're finally starting to go through puberty and they're rolling in jiu jitsu, they're playing tennis, they're lifting weights. And now when I, you know, like when you hug your kids, like I'll hug them in the morning and they'll hug me back and it'll be like a vice grip. And it's kind of cool to see my sons going through puberty and you know, developing muscles and fitness and drive and aggression and I feel pretty good about where they're at. But based on what you've just described, I probably should buy him some EMF blocking, you know, teenage boy boxes.

Well, see that, I mean that's, that's what you have to do. I mean, you know, My daughters are 15 and 13 and they're also very athletically inclined. My 15 year old is in Cheer and gymnastics, you know, she flips across the room like 12 times. But as parents, we really do have to be proactive and obviously teach them, you know, healthy habits. And again, I know your books, you know, do a great job on all this. And again, I don't want to rabbit hole on this, but, you know, the situation is that right now our society, at least in the west, is being contaminated. It's like a multiple multi siege, you know, environmental contamination effect across everyone, both male and females. And again, if you're not proactive and do the things that you and I talk about all the time, you're behind the eight ball. And it's happening now for younger and younger men, which is just, you know, literally insane. But to get back to like the original, you know, thread of, you know, me writing about testosterone and then just becoming my own biohacker, you know, I was using peptides, Ben, since 2004, you know, in the deepest. Yeah, so in like the deepest part of like when I was really into the self experimentation and using testosterone on myself. And by the way, I've used, you know, as I said in the first podcast, I've used every injectable, I mean, delivery system, including injections, you know, transdermal, transcrotal, I've even used troches, I've used patches. I've experimented on every different way, but.

At the same time intranasal. What about intranasal?

So I haven't used intranasal, but I'm very familiar with it. You know, Dr. Remsami in Miami is kind of the guy that was really behind doing that. And now they have. Obviously Natesto is actually an FDA approved form of testosterone. Some people tell me that it's okay, but majority of people that I've spoken to and also physicians that have prescribed it says that most patients that use it get headaches and various other, you know, call them, quote, unquote, side effects or irregularities. So I mean, it's like everything. You know, some things work for some people, some things don't. But you know, with testosterone, it's still the same old tried and true. The two best delivery systems by far are injectable. And again, when I say best, I mean to simulate the body's natural, you know, diurnal pulsar release of endogenous testosterone. And that's going to be either daily injections, microdose injections, or every other day or what I use, which is the transgrotal testosterone cream, which again you place on the base of your scrotum and Again, the reason that is is it's eight times more permeable. And that's through like eight or nine, maybe even more now scientific studies that show that. And, and again, that's also the half life of transcrotal Testosterone, again is 200 milligrams per milliliter. Testosterone is about four to six hours. Now, all men, and of course women, excrete testosterone differently. They cleave it in the bloodstream molecularly at different rates and speeds. And so some people who are quote, unquote, hyper excreters of testosterone, both male and female, may need a second dosage of cream in the day. But again, everybody's different on that stuff. So there are now, as I was telling you a year ago, there are oral delivery systems that are attempting to be patented. There's a couple that are already FDA approved. They're so weak. You know, in all the studies, they get guys Testosterone to like 300 to 400 and, you know, free to like 20 to 25. But, you know, for anybody who's a clinician who's doing this regularly and understands this, that's not optimal. You know, especially when we understand that as we age, our natural production is cessating or, you know, lessening. So why would we want, you know, normal of lessening when we, when we can have optimal? So, I mean, again, it's always the same thing. It's like if you're going to work with a physician that does this, make sure they understand how to do it and that they've been working with a lot of different patients for a long time.

So for, for kind of like the average guy, even though I know averages are tough to approximate, using something like the scrotal cream approach and doing the microdosing that you recommended, simply because, as you alluded to on the last podcast, these big bullish injections in no way simulate the natural diurnal variation of testosterone that should occur from day to day. And so you do something like the microdose injection, or as you alluded to the microdose cream, about how many milligrams in the average dose of cream would you use if you're doing like a little bit in the morning and a little bit in the evening. Scrotally.

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I mean, so the preparation and this is a problem. It's actually better. It's a amazing question because it's complicated to answer it. The bigger problem is that across the world now, there's a lot of different compounding pharmacies and we're going to talk about compounding pharmacies at the end of this podcast because it's a very important point. But you're compounding various different milligram dosage amounts. Right? So at the beginning, as you know, all of the quote unquote bad studies that were done on transdermal testosterone were androGel, which was 50 milligrams per milliliter, which is absolutely almost a non existent amount of testosterone when you understand how testosterone again is molecularly cleaved in the bloodstream for men as we age. So that dosage and delivery system was absolutely useless because nobody ever got any kind of even restoration or optimization. And now you have compounders making 100 milligrams per milliliter, even 150. But all the studies that show benefit are at 200 milligrams per milliliter. And there's like three different brands. There's like HRT, there's Atrovaceous, and I forget the other one, but it doesn't matter. They're all basically compounded 200 milligrams per milliliter. So to answer your question, normally the recommendation for scripts for docs that write scripts for this for men is two to three clicks in a top click applicator. Right. So you just kind of twist it until it comes out twice or three times. And that's either going to be dosed one time in the morning and possibly another two to three clicks in the afternoon.

How many milligrams would there be in a click or in two to three clicks?

Well, so it's, it's 200 milligrams per milliliter. So basically three clicks in is going to be 200 milligrams. Right. So if you're doing two clicks, you're probably somewhere between 100 and 150 milligrams. Now that amount.

So you'd be at like two and a half to three grams per week.

Yeah.

If you were doing it twice a.

Day, you can't extrapolate milligrams and grams from injectable to milligrams and grams in cream because of the delivery. I mean, because the half life is so much shorter. So in transdermal, even all that much, the way it's cleaved in the bloodstream, most of it is not used and it's not accessible. So that's why that's much higher dosage than actually the injectable, which again is a higher impact delivery system because it crosses the blood brain barrier and also gets into Portal circulation faster. So it's just something to understand that the difference between injectable and cream is that the way it's molecularly absorbed is totally different and that's why you need a higher dose of the cream. And again, it's just a much shorter half life. Some people, if they use three clicks in the morning and they're a hyper excretor of testosterone, they could literally be almost efficient by six or seven o' clock at night, you know what I mean? And so that's why they take a second dosage. But for me, I've never had to take a second dosage. I'm not a hyper excreter. I usually take two to three clicks. If I go away on a weekend with my wife and we want to get frisky or something like that, maybe I'll apply another couple clicks in the afternoon.

You notice the effects that acutely, huh?

Yeah. I mean again, because the half life is so short. So you know, most guys who start with the cream are going to notice something within, you know, first time users are going to notice something within 48 hours. Without question, you're going to notice enhanced dopamine signaling. You're going to enhance, well, being better energy. And again, this is just the way the testosterone molecule, you know, cleaves and estrophizes in the bloodstream. But again, we're all different. And you know, when you're working with a physician that understands how to, you know, prescribe this, they're gonna notice your effects and, and you know, work with you and connect with you and communicate with you over the first couple of weeks that you do it to kind of really tailor your dosage or titrate down or even maybe titrate up. And again, we're all so different. I mean I see a lot of people that just are like, dude, I have to take a second dosage of the cream because by four or five o' clock I start feeling down. So you know, one of the things, one of the things that Dr. J. And again, all the. There's so many of them out there now. You probably know 20 people that look at people's DNA and analyze polymorphisms and all that stuff. They can tell you if you're a hyper excreter. Some people too, when they take therapeutic testosterone, they have magnesium depletion issues and it literally freaks them out. I won't tell you stories of things that I've heard from some of my doctor friends about working with people who have that issue and what happens to them. They get like go paranoid and have anxiety. I mean, it's a very small percentage of people. But, you know, obviously for the most part, most people who use therapeutic testosterone feel amazing on it.

Why? Why do some folks recommend, instead of getting on therapeutic testosterone to take something like Clomid or some kind of aromatase inhibitor? What's the logic behind that?

Well, there's no logic behind using an aromatase inhibitor for testosterone optimization other than just misreading the studies or the science. As you know, on our first podcast, and as I continue to be a beacon of knowledge when it comes to teaching people, we'd never want to ever block estrogen under any circumstances. And of course, when I say under any circumstances, there's always an outlier position. But for people using therapeutic testosterone, and this even goes into the bodybuilding world, who are using obviously high dosages, super physiologic levels, testosterone is the anabolic signal along with dht, which is dihydrotestosterone. But the protective effects come from estradiol, which obviously aromatizes into estrogen. And we need healthy, and I would even argue high levels of estrogen to confer protection to all of our biological systems. Right? So the heart, the vasculature, the brain, bone mineral density, all of these various organ and biological systems in our body are protected by higher levels of estrogen. And all of the science shows this, that there has been a misinterpretation and also a miserapilation of seeing men who have high estrogen levels but also high inflammation and visceral fat levels. And so what ends up happening is they correlate the high inflammation and high visceral fat with the high estrogen. And then they tell people, people, and when I say they, I'm talking about doctors who misread this, that there are high estrogen symptoms. There's no such thing as high, high estrogen symptoms. This is a total misinterpretation. There's high inflammation due to high levels of.

My brain just melted fat, obviously estrogenic fat, which again is visceral body fat, and that is all due to metabolic dysregulation, again from, like obesity, too much belly fat, blah, blah, blah. So there's no such thing as high estrogen symptoms. There's just high inflammation and high estrogenic body fat, which again is visceral body fat, which is extremely inflammatory. So this is where people get confused. So when you take therapeutic testosterone, you never block estrogen because you need as much estrogen as possible to confer all of the healthy effects. That estrogen again confers to all those organ systems. Now bodybuilders will take AIs and take also SERMs, which are selective estrogen receptor modulators for various things because again, they're taking super physiologic levels. And when you take that high of levels, and by the way, we're not talking about what you and I are talking about, we're just kind of just making this aside so people understand this. But even when they take massive levels of steroids and other things, they obviously have a lot of estrogen, not estrogen, but aromatization from all the various drugs blocking the side effects that come from that, which are obviously water retention, mood imbalances, you know, just kind of like not feeling stable because you have so much drug circulating in your system. Taking an AI to suppress again what they think are the side effects from it is so harmful. There's a lot of people out there now, physicians that are doing tests. You can do DEXA scans, You can also do biological age tests and you can see what AIs, which again aromatase inhibitor locking medications do to your biological age, to your telomeres. I mean, they're basically cell decayants. I mean literally, I would say over time and again, you know, when the, when there's more data from the biological age tests aggregators, you'll be able to see what people that are using, when they use AIs. And by the way, this also is going to get into, as we get deeper into this and we talk about hair regrowth and loss, it's the same thing with DHT inhibitors. So basically all these things that block natural God given created systems.

You mean like Rogaine or something like that?

Dude, all of them. Now obviously the clinical versions are stronger than the over the counter versions like Rogaine, but yeah, like finasteride and Dutasteride, all of these five, they're called DHT inhibitors. What is it? PD5 or whatever inhibitors. I mean all of these things are horrible to biological system health. And again, in the next three to five years, my assumption, and maybe it'll take even longer because everything moves so slow in medicine. We are going to start seeing that men who have been using high dose AIs and high dose DHT inhibitors are having really poor biological age values because of what they're doing to the telomeres.

Yeah, it's interesting and you know, my intention for having you on the show today, Jay, was actually to talk about peptides. And we've, we've already taken a deep dive into testosterone. And I'm. I'm looking at the clock and thinking.

Well, gosh, huge audience. People need to understand this.

I should make sure that I mention again, you guys need to read Jay's book and listen to our previous podcast on testosterone, because even though I would love to ask Jay additional questions about estrogens and liver metabolism and some dosing questions, I. I actually really want to make sure that we talk about peptides today.

Absolutely.

And. And so I'm gonna. And, and by the way, also read this new book by Darren Olian called Fatal Conveniences. I think it's called Fatal Conveniences or How I gotta look at my shelf. It's back there somewhere. Anyways, read it. New book by Darren Olie. And if you wanna wrap your head around some environmental factors that might not be so great from an estrogenic or testosterone standpoint. But back to peptides, Jay, you know, you sent me this package and I've never really ordered peptides from the Internet because the general consensus, at least to my understanding, has been issues with purity, issues with some of these pharmacies, and issues with you potentially emptying your pocketbook on what could be very expensive peptides with low efficacy or impurities. Yet you swore to me that what you were about to send me was, you know, the, the equivalent or, or safe or, you know, what I could be getting currently through a physician, which is obviously a little less convenient than just being able to go order your peptides from the Internet or, you know, from something like this, this new website, what's it called? Limitless Life. Limitless Life website that you've made. So, so what, what, what is going on exactly with this ability to be able to now order peptides from the Internet?

Yeah, so, I mean, like, so first off, I just want to say I agree with you, you know, for. So from my personal perspective, as I told you, I've been using peptides since 2004. I always. In the beginning, I mean, first off, in 2004, doctors weren't prescribing peptides anyway. There was no. Nobody knew anything about peptides.

Unless you insult.

Yeah, I mean, exactly. But I mean, from a standpoint of, you know, from a clinical compounding pharmacy prescribing peptides as they have in the, say, the last six or seven years, there was nobody that was involved in peptides. And you got it from like, basically being in underground forums, you know, bodybuilding, new Usenet groups and stuff like that. And so my first foray into peptides was using ipamorellin in 2004. And it's really funny because I think you know this. I did a podcast in early March on our friends, our mutual friends, Mind Pump, you know, Sal, Adam, Doug and all those guys. And we went really, really deep on Peptides. And it was an amazing podcast, you know, for the, for the public and of course for their audience and for a lot of people.

But in the show notes, they're great, the Mind Pump guys.

They are, dude. And it was an amazing podcast. Yeah, definitely point to that. It'd be really helpful for a lot of people. But a lot of people that listen to that, to their audience heard me talk about Southern Research Co. And this was the company in Texas that I and everybody else that was using peptides, you know, which there was obviously a very rogue small group of humans back then that were using it. But like there were people in that audience that heard that and they were like, this guy's legit. And they messaged me and they're like, whatever happened to them? And I'm like, man, your guess is as good as my guess. But again, 2004 through 2006, I was using ipamorelin through Southern Research Co. And in Texas, whoever they were, and obviously again, they were back. I mean, I know who they were without getting anybody in trouble. They were basically the back office operation of a compound pharmacy that was just selling these things on the Internet through bodybuilding magazines and underground forums. And dude, ipamorelin was the most profound thing at the time that I had ever used. I mean, next to testosterone. And then as you know, and we can go deeper on this, and obviously I write about this in the book with the God stack and all these other things. Testosterone and growth hormone inducing peptides, and of course human growth hormone itself have a synergistic effect. And so when you're using a surgically precise dose of testosterone and growth hormone or any peptide inducing growth hormone, you know, like IPamorelin, Testamerel and CJC, we'll talk about those. They're just amazing together. So when I started using ipamorelin, I was like, wow, I got leaner. I put on maybe three to five pounds of muscle. My training was better, my sleep was incredible. But to originally your question, it's weird because again, with compounding pharmacies, selling peptides through prescriptions with doctors in the last six or seven years, and then previous with my experience using research chemical companies, I was reluctant, like you to talk about research chemical companies. But Limitless life Nootropics, the owner, who I'm obviously a very Close personal friend with Chris Mercer. He actually does certificates of authenticity on all of his peptides. He also is the only guy I know in the industry. And again, I'll mention names, you know, there's obviously Peptide sciences is a big and great company. They've been selling peptides for close to I think a decade now, somewhere between eight and 10 years. And they're by far the biggest outfit from a, you know, gross revenue standpoint in the industry for peptides. But they're not testing their peptides. And Chris came to me, you know, two years ago and was like, look man, I follow you, you know, I think you're awesome, blah, blah, blah. Would you be interested in promoting my peptides? There's a reason I want you to. And here's the reason. And then him and I obviously became really good friends. So fast forward to now. You know, obviously since the book launched, you know, I have affiliate links in the book, of course, to Limitless. And Limitless has exploded. I mean, they went from, you know, doing, I mean they're basically doing seven to eight times revenue a month than they were doing before the book launch. And obviously the Mind pump podcast helped. There's, the book is selling like crazy on, on Amazon. Of course, a lot of people been, are looking. What's the name of the book? It's called optimize your health with therapeutic peptides.

Okay. Yeah.

And then there's a subtitle.

And so, so these limitless life peptides, they have a certificate of authenticity. Are they doing something different that other compounding pharmacists aren't that allow them to maintain that purity?

I mean, not really from a standpoint. I mean, it's hard for me to answer that because I don't know. This is what I'll say. I don't know of any compounder or research chemical company. We can talk about the difference between research chemical companies and compound pharmacies if you want. I'm happy to, but I don't know anybody that's actually going out on the line and paying an independent third party company to test their peptides because it costs money. One, and number two, they're using an FDA registered DEA certified lab to do it. Right. So whether they're a compounder or a research chemical company, who's actually doing that? Now again, the compound people will hear this podcast and they'll say, ben, that's just part of the deal if you're a compounder. Well, is it? I mean, again, who's testing the compounders?

Yeah, yeah, that, that makes Sense. Well, I, I can tell you that I began to use what you sent last week and I had forgotten, you know, you brought up Ipamorelin. You sent me Ipamorelin and tessamorelin. You actually asked me about a few of the things that I'd want to try and I named those two because I did a stint of them a couple of years ago. I, I think I did two different 8 to 12 week stints of them during the year and saw profound increases in lean muscle gain and fat loss despite no significant changes in diet and exercise. And you know, my sleep score has been like 92 to 95% for the past week since I started doing that little. I actually do the ipamorelin injection in the morning and the Tesamorelin in the evening. And yeah, I had forgotten how unstoppable you feel when you're taking these things. And so the Epamorel and the Tesla Morellon. Why is it that that compound or that or that that stack seems to work so well?

That is a really good question. So I, obviously we wrote about that in the book, so I know, you know, you already mentioned Nick, you know, Nick Andrews and I were involved in writing the book. We obviously produced the course which you were so grateful, I mean, gracious to promote for us last year. And then we're going to talk about a new course that's coming, that's going to be for babies. And then. Let's just take a step back before I answer your question. I think, you know, this, you know, your audience is a lot bigger than mine. I mean, the reality is, is that peptides represent this like, new form of, let's call it quantum healing in medicine. Right? And in the last three years, regardless of our opinions of what have happened, a lot of people feel burned. They have lost trust in allopathic medicine, they've lost trust in, you know, let's call it the system. And so what's happening right now is a lot of people are coming into, you know, let's just call it collective awakening or mass consciousness. And they're like peptides. And I don't want to rabbit hole and talk to about bioregulators, but I know we're going to be talking about that because that's even a bigger thing coming because they're orals and not injectables. But the biggest issue with peptides, as you know, and you just said it, you're like, oh, I injected this at night and this in the morning. Ben, that literally eliminates from our, you know, internal Jay Campbell Teams test not testimonials, but surveys and questionnaires that we do. 85% of people are still too afraid to inject themselves. Right. Like you and I can sit there and we can show them that it's a 32 or 31 gauge insulin needle and you can jab yourself.

Millions of diabetics do daily every.

Exactly. But again, it's a hang up. It's actually called tyrannophobia, which is a fear of needles, needle phobia, but it's called tyrannophobia. Fear of injection.

Yes, that was a fear of death. Dinosaurs. But makes sense.

It's the craziest name what it means. Yeah, me too, tyrannophobia. But the reality is is that you got 85% of the public that will not inject themselves. So like we can sit up here and we can talk about how amazing these things are, but there's still this like level of fear that the consumer, the end user, has to overcome. And once they do, I mean, obviously it's simple, right? It's like brushing your teeth. But it's very interesting because that's the biggest bugaboo as I've gotten so deep into this and hon, as I told you four months ago and you were obviously very gracious to write the forward for the book and I'm very grateful about that and I appreciate you guys always say, man, I truly love embarrassingly.

Live on the podcast. Could not remember the title of the book I wrote the foreword for, but I remember it was quite good.

You talked to a lot of people, bro. It's okay. But no, but seriously, truthfully, it's crazy to see how big peptides are becoming right now in the mass consciousness. I mean I cannot handle, my assistants, cannot handle the emails and the messages that I'm getting. And so I'm letting you know a forewarning as when this podcast runs, you are going to be getting so many people message you asking you questions. Not that you don't already, but you know about this because this is just such a big thing right now. But at the end of the day, injecting yourself is like I said, brushing your teeth. After you do it once, perhaps twice, you're never going to be afraid of it. You're not going to have fear of it. It's something that's very easy to do. It doesn't require any kind of skill. Watch one video, listen to me and you talk about it. The next course that I have coming, which is called Peptides Demystified, is going to be a basic Intro newbies, total neophyte level course on how to do this with all of the questions that people have that you and I take for granted, again, how to prepare your needle, how to use bacterial static water, how to inject a peptide, all this kind of stuff. So it's going to be much more helpful. And you know, I will apologize to the audience, not your audience, but the world at large and say, you know, I really took for granted a lot of the basics because I've been using peptides for so long. But you know, most people have no familiarity with them at all. So I'm really grateful now that there's, you know, obviously you giving me this forum and obviously the mind pump guys too to really talk about this because I'm telling you, man, it's mind blowing how many people interested in peptides.

So I assume for back to that very simple stack that I think is quite excellent, especially for any exercise or fitness enthusiast or someone looking for the simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss effects that with ipamorelin in the morning and tessamorelin in the evening, especially based off what I've seen in sleep parameters, that the primary effect going on is a growth hormone inducing effect.

100%. I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question. That is the strongest mixture of peptides for exactly what you said to produce size and strength gains and also to minimize fat deposition. Now, as you know in your audience of course knows too, body fat loss and muscle gain is always relative to caloric intake.

Right.

Like you're not going to magically put on 20 pounds of muscle by using Tessa and IPA unless you eat relative to doing that. Right. If that's your desired goal, you absolutely can doing.

By the way, I, I have put on ten pounds in the past month and a half even though I only began taking these peptides a week and.

A half ago right now, by the way.

Yeah, well, the impetus for that. Thank you. Is that, that I weigh 182 right now after being in the 168 to 170 range for the longest time. And I'm 6 foot 2. So that's, that's, that's pretty light all things considered. And my sons and I have a free diving course coming up and a spearfishing trip off the coast of North Carolina. So all three of us have been making an attempt to put on a little bit of extra cushioning and insulation, so to speak. My strategy, I interviewed this guy named Michael Chernow about morning routines and habits and he has an oatmeal company it's like oatmeal with collagen and pumpkin seeds and chia seeds and obviously carbohydrates. If you're lean or if you're a hard gainer, carbohydrates are kind of the secret sauce for putting on a little bit of extra mass. So all I've been doing is consuming one to two packets of those 350 calorie oatmeal doses per day. And that's awesome. My weight gain has gone through the roof. And the interesting side effect is anyone who's been low carb or keto has probably experienced is that when you increase carbohydrates, there seems to be a pretty potent androgenic effect. So despite me not injecting the tanning peptide that my wife is using, I have been waking up multiple times per night with a raging tent pitched. And I think it's due to that carbohydrate intake. So we're rabbit holing a little bit. But that Tesamorel and ipamorelin combo, as you alluded to, especially if you're eating adequate calories, seems to really move the dial for people who want to put on a little bit more muscle in the gym. But kind of related to that in the gym activities, there, there was a peptide. I was kind of intrigued with that, I believe when I interviewed. I think it was Ryan Smith, who runs the True Diagnostics Age testing company, had described as something that when he began taking it, added something like 7 inches to his vertical jump. Which sounds like a stupid, as seen on TV overhyped commercial type of claim. But it was called 5Amino1MQ. Is that correct? 5Amino1MQ. I never used it. You sent me a bottle. It's an oral peptide. And so I began taking that in the morning when I inject the epamorelin. My workouts have been. So I use that ARX machine which quantifies force production. I believe what Ryan was saying because I feel like I've all of a sudden sprouted new motor neurons or new muscle fibers or something. But describe to me what's going on with this 5amino 1 MQ. I'm very surprised. I hadn't kind of started to use it before with the effects that I've seen. It's pretty crazy.

So. So, yeah, so five amino. Before I do that, let me just finish on Tessa and IPA because you, you. You nailed it. Tessa and IPA have a synergistic effect. You know, IPA is a GnRH and Tessa is the opposite. Whatever.

It's called releasing hormones.

Yeah. Okay, so combined they create massive intracellular water retention, which is going to swell you up. I mean, that's why your boobs are so pumped right now, bro. I mean, like, literally taking both of those increases, like you said, I mean, combined with the carbohydrate intake, it's. It's swelling your muscles. So you're going to be a lot stronger. And then, yes, you will have, you know, through your contractual force training with arx, you're going to have, you know, her perch free. I mean, it's. It's happening and it's. And by the way, now that you're using the five amino to swing into that, that's going to be absolutely permanent. You know, just intracellular skeletal mass or lean muscle gain. So what 5Amino does is it optimizes and up upregulates your mitochondria. Right. So Limitless has two formulations which he sent you both. He sent you the capsules and he also sent you powder. The powder actually has NMN in it too. Right. It's just a microdose of mn, but it's enough to actually.

You mean nicotinamide mononucleotide, the same NAD precursor many people are using.

Exactly.

Okay, Right.

And he's got the perfect dosage in there. And again, remember, it's a synthesized powder. I mean, dude, we could go rabbit hole right now. We could talk about some of the nmi, you know, supplements out there, which I think are mostly horse manure because I don't think that they're synthesized correctly and I don't think they're in the right dosage. But without disparaging supplement companies or anything like that, I definitely know because I've used it myself. Like, you have that the effect that you're feeling is totally real. The problem with 5amino and it's not a problem, but in my experience and others, you build up antibodies on it pretty quickly. So I would tell you that you probably are going to get four to six weeks of feeling unreal. It definitely does. It definitely does increase.

You know, vascular density. I mean, you're gonna. You're gonna feel stronger and more energized on it. And like you said, combined with IPA and Tessa, I mean, dude, you're going to be a, A. You're going to be diesel.

Yeah.

I mean, you're going to be so strong.

Yeah. Based on that effect you noted, I do. With all peptides go five days on, two days off. And I only use them for short stints during a year, eight to 12 weeks. And part of that is also based on the research I've seen out of Russia from Dr. Cavinson. And this might be a good way for us to get into the bioregulatory peptides on the age reversal and also mitochondrial effects and decrease in all cause risk of mortality with some relatively short peptide bioregulator stints of around 10 days, you know, one to two times a year. And so unlike many supplements people might be used to like say, fish oil or creatine, these seem to be pretty effective when cycled, possibly due to that effect that you noted of the body simply getting used to them, possibly something else. But these bioregulators, you know, you mentioned they're available orally, I believe, also in injectable format. Why is it that those seem to be even more effective than peptides?

I mean, man, it's an amazing question. I mean, I don't want to sound like the biggest hype and pitch man of all time, but I will give you credit. When you did the podcast with Phil Mikins on bioregulators, I literally was calling you the day before, said, hey, do you know, can you connect me with him? Or whatever? And then two days later your podcast runs. But like, so since your podcast motivated me and my team, I've interviewed him and my two copywriters have interviewed him and we're basically writing the be all, end all articles on all of, let's say, the top 20 bioregulators. Right? So to just, just to say what, you know, to echo what you did in your first podcast and what I did with mine and him and now the articles that we're writing, Bioregulators, you know, no smoke and mirrors and no bullshit, have the opportunity to be bigger than peptides. And again, for the simple reason that you and I already announced, they're mostly oral capsules. They fall under, you know, various, the various governing regulatory agencies across the world. Nutritional supplements, they're on Amazon right now.

Okay, Unlike the injections, these are far easier to get your hands on is what you're saying.

And people will use them, right? So you're going to have patient and consumer adherence versus the injectables. People either afraid or just won't do it all together because of that. But, but the truth is bioregulators are amazing.

You already said it with Cavinson. For a long time, all of the bioregulators were, due to Russian patent law, were prohibited from being in the West. Now, something has happened in the last year which I've attempted to ask Questions. And I don't really get any feedback from anybody other than that whatever is going on between Russia, Ukraine, the US And China has somehow allowed these things into the West. Now, like I said, they're on Amazon, obviously. Anti aging systems, through their website, Profound Health, which you and I are, of course, both affiliates for, are pushing them into the. Into the wild now, too. I'm looking into companies that can potentially bring them to the States and build, you know, a lab here to get involved in them. But, I mean, dude, honestly, like, when you really look at what these things do, they are way bigger potentially than even peptides. We can get into the synergies of using them together, but they're tissue specific, they're organ system specific, and they're also, when used in combination with peptides, biological. I'm sorry, biological system upregulating capable. And so they're just. They're unreal. And again, they have no side effects ever measured. There's like 35 to 40 years of published research in Russia and Bulgaria using bioregulators that goes way back. Again, because Cavinson patented them and Russia patent law was preventing them from being in the West. We don't have any research. I mean, there's some, but very minimal amount of peer review on them. But again, that's not the case in Russia and again, Bulgaria, where they've been used. But for most people that have been using them that I have talked to, and I want to give a shout out to a guy that both of us know, Dean Henry, who's over in the uae. He says, Ben might not remember me, but I met him in 2019. Okay, cool.

I met him in Dubai.

Yeah, awesome. Exactly. So shout out to Dean. He's an amazing guy. He's been using bioregulators with himself and his clients for over five years now. And he just raves about like six different ones. You know, maybe you and I will do another podcast at some point and we can go down maybe six months to a year from now when we use. Use more of them because they're really starting to become available now. They really are profound. I'll just give you this story. I like to talk about it like this. Imagine so for men, you know, you are 40 now and getting older. I'm 52. Basically. Anybody 40 and up, as we get older, our prostate, you know, through what is known as bph, benign prostate hypertrophy, increases in size. And when it increases in size, it obviously causes issues with our bladder. You know, it puts pressure on the machinery down there. So that most guys have to wake up in the middle of the night as they age and take a pee. Imagine taking a prostate bioregulator that literally specifically targets the prostate bend and shrinks it as you age. And that's what this does. Now also extrapolate that to ovaries for women, the adrenal glands, and again, on and on, so forth and so forth with every different biological system. And all of them, again, specifically target those specific tissues and organ systems without side effects. And they're orals, and by the way, they're not expensive. You take them. Most dosing protocols are 10 days in a row within another 30 to 45 days off, and then 10 days in a row again. And then you get to a place of like, you can do tests or whatever and see where you are and see what your functioning is, and you might not need them anymore. So, I mean, you can imagine how big these are potentially.

Do you use the tanning peptide that I mentioned that my wife started taking that she's very happy about.

I was going to say to you, maybe that's the reason, and mention the.

Name of it, too. Melanotan.

No, it's Melanitan one. It's Melanitan one. Melanitan one. Melanitan two is also out there, but I like Melanitan one. I mean, they're both fine, but I like Melanitan one because of, like, I wrote about that in the TOT Bible and the Agents of Change chapter. And I also write about it in the newest peptide book. It has the ability for people like us that are, you know, do. Do a lot of inner work and meditation, introspection, contemplation to enhance consciousness. Now, when I wrote about that, yeah, when I wrote about that first in the TOT Bible, it was very speculative because I was reading articles from Frank Barr, who was like, one of the leading researchers in the world on melanin, melanin cortoid receptor complexes. And so I have a bunch of his research included in the TOT Bible in that chapter about that. But then as I started reading more of it and I started using Melanitan more often in my life, first off, I permanently changed the complexion of my skin. I mean, I'm, you know, white is Northern European white boy. And, you know, since I started using it in 2009, 2010, I've definitely darkened my skin. I. I have less sensitivity to the sun. You know, now I'm living in Playa del Carmen, Mexico. I'm pretty much in the sun every single day. And I'm, you know, I stay tan year round and I don't burn. I used to burn, I don't burn anymore. But you know, for me the most profound effect when I use it, I use it maybe a couple times a week. And very micro dosages, the dosages are of course listed in the book. When I go out in the morning and I meditate or sungaze, I mean, it's insane, dude. Like I, it's just a different level, you know, 15 to 20 minutes I can get into what I call total stillness. You know, not technically leave my body, although I can do that if I really want to. But I just, I just get into that center and centered stillness aspect a lot better and faster since I started using M1.

And unlike another popular consciousness enhancer, ketamine, you know, such as an intranasal dose of ketamine which some people will use pre breath work or premeditation for the dissociative effect.

But also gives you a little bit of a droopy dick. The opposite seems to occur with Melanotan. This priormic effect that dictates that I can't take it because I don't sleep. Is that common amongst all men? Because it sounds like you use it but doesn't present an issue with you.

No. So melanin 101 doesn't have the effect on the penis.

Maybe it's because I was using melanitan too.

Okay, yeah, that's probably why. That's probably why.

And honestly, I have to go steal my wife's dose.

Well, so, so for women, Melanitan 2 darkens their skin, but obviously they don't have the sexual function enhancement or anything like that. Obviously PT141 is another one. Chris doesn't have that. Limitless doesn't sell that because that's a scripted controlled medication. Now that big pharmaceuticals, I forget what it's called. It's called Afro Beleminatide or something like that. But that's a sexual enhancing quote unquote peptide that can cause really strong erections. But I am also not a big believer or supporter of that either because I'm a total non responder to that. And like 40 of men are non responders to that. But for you with melanin too.

It can cause that enhanced erection.

I seem to be a hyper responder to just about any so called dick drug. As a matter of fact, that PT141 that you talked about, I do have some troches that were compounded for me that I keep on hand for date Nights. And it's so powerful that the first time I got it, I took it because I planned on taking my wife on a date that evening, but I took it at like 3pm prior to some phone calls. And then as I'm prone to do, I headed out to walk on some farm roads behind the house, out in the sunshine to do phone calls. And a half hour into the first walk, I had a raging erection. I wasn't thinking about anything sexual. You know, I was in total business mode and it just wouldn't go away. And it stayed, I mean, even on our, on our date I had to wear the tight pants and you know, kind of like cinch the boxers up. And you know, obviously the effects were as intended, but that stuff is Dang powerful that PT141.

And honestly, that's why I don't like it. Like, well, first off, it's weird. I don't respond to that at all. But yeah, I mean, I've heard many stories, but yeah, if you get, you know, that's obviously a condition, you know, called a PRIA prism. And if you get it and it affects you that much, dude, you can have a hard on for nine, nine hours in a row and it's nightmare.

Yeah. So how long do you think it is that this stuff stays legal? Like, I'm just thinking about somebody listening and they hear this podcast like three years from now. I mean, do you think they'll still be able to like go to the Limitless Live website or go to Phil's website for peptide bioregulators and this stuff's still even going to be available?

So I mean, dude, it's a million dollar question. I mean I, I definitely, hopefully before you end, I want to talk about GLP1 Agnes, because there's such the big rage across the world right now. And then definitely talk about heroes growth. Yeah, we got to talk about those. But, but we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll skip to this question because it's the, it's the million pound gorilla. So I actually talked to Nick earlier today and I was like, when Ben asked me this question, if he asked me this question, how do you, how would you answer this when it comes to peptides and bioregulators? And his exact quote was for, for bioregulators. He said.

I'm looking. He wrote, I wanted, it's the only one that I wanted to read to you. But he basically said that because they're considered, they're, they're considered nutritional supplements. He doesn't see any risk unless Big Pharma decides, you know, fda, whatever the Alphabet agencies decide that they want to go after the nutritional supplement space which they had never have done before. So very low risk, if any risk at all with bioregulators. Now with peptides, you know, this gets back to the compounding pharmacies and the research chemical companies. So this is what I was told at the AMMG medical conference and again you probably have heard this from various people inside the health industry or medical industry right now is that Big Pharma is pissed and this can seg us into GLP1 agonist. Big Pharma is pissed that the compounders are quote unquote adulterating the retail versions of the GLP1 agonist, right? So you've got Semaglutide which is called Olympic or Ozempic and you have Manjaro which is Tirzepatide. And these are both absolutely slam dunk, far and away the number one selling quote unquote peptide medications of all time. I mean they've already projected that Tirzepatide by the end of 2023 will be the number one selling pharmaceutical medication of all time. And so what's happened then is that the compounders, without mentioning names, have adulterated the formulations by adding B6, adding.

Choline or acetyl L, carnitine or whatever it is to the formulation which doesn't disturb the original medication, which again is appetite suppressant and metabolic uncoupling to make it cheaper. And so Big Pharma is like oh no, you're not going to do this. So what I was told AMMG and various other people are hearing too, is that they are going to have the crosshairs on all of the non FDA approved peptides. And what could happen, and I'm not making this prediction, but what could happen without doom and gloom is that they could just shut down all, all off label compounded pharmacy peptides that again are not FDA approved. And right now, and this is in the book by the way, there's like 13 FDA approved peptides, some of which you and I would never use and have never even heard of. But some of the bigger ones, which would be like tessa Marelllin, Thymosin Alpha 1, which as you know is the immunity peptide. All these peptides by the way are covered in the book and there's a section in there we talk about FDA approved peptides, peptides. But I mean look man, it's possible that there will be no compounded peptides other than The FDA approved ones by the end of the year. And if that's the case, it's 90% of the public will not be have access to them because I mean enters appetite for one month supply through, you know, retail is 14 to $1500.

Yeah.

And most people are paying 400.

I went out to a nice restaurant with one of my friends who happens to be a foodie and he had taken some glutide that morning and he couldn't even look at a big juicy ribeye steak without getting nauseous. I think he ate one half of a deviled egg and the glass of water during the entire dinner. And that struck me as quite remarkable the effects that this stuff has on appetite. And it also made sense why so many Hollywood celebrities, etc are using it to spark some pretty significant weight loss and appetite suppression. Are you concerned about it at all in terms of long term side effects, the use of these type of agonists?

No, I mean that's a great question. I mean, you know, there's obviously always a risk with any medication that you take. But to me, as I always say, the difference between a pill and a poison is always the dosage. There's also a lifestyle, you know, component, you know, let me just say, and you know, you're, you're the perfect forum to talk about this. You know, Dr. Peter Attia, God love him, you know, right now he's got like the number one selling book in the world on whatever it's called, it's longevity or something like that. He is one of the biggest names in the, you know, they keep calling him celebrity doctor in any of the mainstream places, but he has been very vocal against GLP1 agonists and he's been glomming onto some of the research saying that they cause muscle loss. And I want to clarify for your audience and really the world that even though he's technically correct, the reason that this is showing up in this research is because the physicians that are prescribing these GLP1 agonists to their patients are not also concomitantly teaching their patients how to lose weight slash body fat correctly. Right. So what's happening, and this is to very be very clear, and I made a video about this, which I'm happy to give you, and you guys can link to, is that the patient is morbidly obese or insulin, you know, insensitive, metabolically dysregulated and they get these things. And as of course, you know, let's say they're 350 pounds, they, they start using them and it kills their appetite, as you just said, and it kills their appetite better than anything that they've ever tried before. It. But as you know, Ben, there's the devil's in the details. You can't just stop eating without having some sort of requisite metabolic, eventual shutdown, thyroid disruption, all these different things. So it's very simple. If you're going to use a GLP1 agonist, you also have to eat enough protein to maintain proper weight loss and of course body fat loss. Build muscle through resistance training, do cardiovascular training, right, to strengthen your heart and then of course live insulin controlled. I mean you got to change your diet. You can't keep eating like a dumpster fire while you're taking these supplements or these meds, right? I mean, it doesn't work like that. So it's like it's, it's.

Everything is context that's reasonable. And it reminds me of the old studies that go back to 2008 showing that in the face of a caloric deficit as low as 800 calories, muscle maintenance and in some cases muscle hypertrophy or gain is even possible in the presence of resistance training. So it sounds to me what I'm hearing is that if you were to use one of these, you should maintain adequate amino acid intake and do resistance and cardiovascular training. That makes sense.

100. And that's the thing that. Exactly, dude. And you're always on it. But see, that's the thing that really gets me upset is because a lot of other fitness influencers and quote unquote so called gurus are glomming on to Peter's statements because again, Peter's just being, you know, the literal scientist and he's interpreting the research and he is seeing muscle loss in a lot of these people. And look, man, you know, because I've had these people message me and email me and stuff, and you know, you're £400 and you've done everything in your life and you just are incapable of losing weight. And then all of a sudden you'd start taking these and they are so profoundly effective that you stop eating, right? As much as you were eating and you don't do the other things because you're literally telling the person, let's say it's me or you saying, hey, no, dude, you got to lift weights, you got to eat enough protein. You're telling this person, I don't care, I'm losing weight, I'm seeing my pants go down in sizes, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I mean, like, I see both sides of the coin and I understand where these people are coming from. But again, the devil is always in the details. If you use these things contextually, you have to also do the other things. Or yes, you will have muscle loss, you will have thyroid issues, you will have metabolic dysregulation. It's like, you know, you just likened it to what you likened it to. But think about, like in bodybuilding world, you know, a lot of women will go on the fitness, you know, competition stage, bikini or whatever, you know, physique, and they do crash diets and do too much cardio themselves and they destroy the thyroid.

Yeah, I think folks understand. Yeah. And we're running up against limited time, Jay. And so I gotta ask you about this hair growth thing you've alluded to a few times because there's like this dark blue lotion that was in the package that you sent to me and you told me to aggravate my scalp or do some derma rolling, which I've been doing because I do that for my face sometimes anyways with a clay mask. So I have these derma rollers. And you said that by rubbing this stuff into the scalp that you could actually grow hair, which, you know, based on the, the need for stem cell upregulation and, you know, oxygenation and blood flow and microcirculation, a whole bunch of things responsible for sparking hair growth seemed like, well, honestly, like an exaggerated claim. Tell me what's going on with this, with this blue lotion. What is it?

Yeah, so if you remember, you know, make this quick so we can get, we can end this amazing podcast as. Again, bro, appreciate you. Love you. I'm grateful. Always be here. Thank you for everything you do. The truth is, is that a Seer Custom was the company that you promoted for us and helped our company blow up. We sold Nick Andrews and I sold the company last year in March to a venture capital firm. The venture capital firm, for whatever reasons, like, didn't do what they were supposed to do, and at the end of the year, quote unquote, defaulted on an inventory payment to us, which was great for us because it broke up our non compete and allowed us to come out with new new products and businesses and do whatever we want. So I sent you the newest product, which is called Folletin, and this is going to be coming from Nick's newest company. I am not actually a partner in this company. I will be an affiliate. I'm sure you will be an affiliate. And it is a Three to five times. And it could be more, but we're being conservative. It's three to five times more effective hair regrowth agent. Of course it's peptide based than Oxana was. And remember, Oxana was a combination of copper peptide, GHKCU and carbon 60. And it was of course also in a topical form. It worked really well. You had, you know, thousands of your audience that used it and got great results. You and your wife used it, got great results. You know, I used it, got great results, regrew my hair. But the issue that most people had was with it was that carbon 60, because it was in a grapeseed oil extract, was when over applied. And as you know, people always like to use more. It would cause oil in their hair and so people would complain that it would get in their pillows or whatever. So this newest form that you have is completely aqueous based. We have not put carbon 60 in this one, although at some point we probably will again when we can make it a liposomal system so that it doesn't have any kind of oily residue or texture. But this one is copper peptide, GHKCU and like three or four other aqueous based peptides that are all built on angiogenesis, which is obviously stimulating red cell, red blood cell and flow back to the scalp. And I have been using it myself now for a week and a half. You have been using it, I think for what, four or five days. Probably your wife too, because I know Nick sent it to you too.

If you're watching the video right now, I have an Afro ghk. Copper peptide, by the way, is, I think, based on the Dalton size. The measurement via which you look into the particle size of the peptide or the molecular size of the peptide is one of the few that actually is absorbed transdermally. You don't need to inject it into the scalp, you can rub it into the scalp.

That's absolutely correct. And I'm glad that you clarified that. If you're a user of this, and by the way, by the time this podcast runs, you'll have a website that you'll be able to send people to that will have demo videos of how you apply this. Less is more with this peptide. And again, if you are like Ben or a woman and you have longer hair, you want to make sure you get it into the scalp. Obviously somebody like me has shorter hair, so it's easier for me to get it into the scalp. But you're massaging it, like you said, agitating it in the scalp. So if you want to use a derma roller, you want to use microneedling, you want to use an agitator, that's going to be better. As we said on the last hair regrowth podcast we did with you two, that was two years ago. Isn't insane how fast time moves. You want to use red light, red light, skull caps, red light, you know, juve. Anything that gets red light, anything that's going to increase mitochondrial optimization is also going to improve blood red blood cells count and flow to the area. And look, let me just say this. You know, again, you were the one that broke this to the world. It's still sad that not enough people still understand this, but we totally without.

There's no disc. This is completely, unequivocally proven now that all hair loss is called by blood flow restriction to the scalp. Okay? It's not caused by dht. It's not caused by this, that and the other. It's caused by blood flow restriction to the scalp, which ultimately, okay, can be caused by a thousand different things. You know, heavy metal contamination, overexposure to sun, you know, sweating, anxiety, too much insulin, too much sugar, too much alcohol. I mean, again, it's like a thousand things can cause blood flow restriction to your scalp. But I will say this, that I have androgenic alopecia. My dad's. I mean, my mom's dad was bald and. And I would probably be bald right now, Ben. And since I started using this product off and on, you know, when I had access to it, which has only been in the last couple of months now, the new one, Oxido, ran out last year in September. I've regrown my hair. I wouldn't even have hair.

Wow.

I wouldn't have hair.

Wow, that's. That's impressive. And I'm looking forward to seeing what results I have and potentially even trying it this Christmas to grow my annual winter lumberjack beard. And folks, you, if you take anything away from this podcast, don't wear tight underwear. And as you've just learned, don't wear tight hats. Jay and I have two other podcasts that I'll link to. If you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com limitless life, I'll have the Shownotes. And I'm going to link to Jay's peptide course to his testosterone optimization book and course to these peptides we've been discussing. If the hair growth formula is out when this podcast comes out, I'll put a link to that and hopefully some generous discount codes. For you, Jay, you're always just a wealth of knowledge. Of course, we only scratch the surface on the dozens of different peptides out there, but hopefully this gives people a pretty good idea of the general notion behind these peptides, how to use them. A little bit about testosterone optimization, check out Limitless Life too, if you're interested. Again, go to BenGreenfieldLife.comLimitlessLife I'll link to the website where some of these formulas particularly, I would recommend if any of you are listening and you like to exercise, try this, this 5Amino 1 MQ. It's just, it's kind of crazy how I feel on it. So, Jay, thanks so much for coming on, man. You're always, I mean, you're, you're a fast talker, but you get across a lot of information. And so we feed people through the fire hose. They might have to listen to this at 0.5 times speed, but thanks so much, man.

I appreciate you, man. The only thing we didn't talk about and the reason I have so much energy is the God Stacks. And the next time we do a podcast, we'll break that down and I'll.

Link to your God Stack article in the show notes because you have a pretty interesting article about these different stacks that you take. So if people want to read ahead, check it out. BenGreenfieldLife.com Limitless Life Jay, thanks so much, man.

Thank you, my brother. I love and appreciate you.