Peptides Unveiled: The Best Peptide Stacks For Anti-Aging, Growth Hormone, Deep Sleep, Hair Loss, E

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, what's changed is we can synthesize these peptides and hold them in the blood system so they're not degraded and we can do our signaling. We need to do. A muscle doesn't get bigger by just sitting around. A muscle has to be stressed to utilize oxygen better. A cell needs to be stressed every day to be functional. We're attacking all the pathways. We know what causes it. So why not go after the root cause? If you can go after the root cause, you can correct.

Health, performance, nutrition.

Longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield.

Welcome to the show.

All right, you've been waiting for it and I'm delivering today peptides.

You guys asked me a lot of.

Questions about peptides and I'm very excited about today's episode because we take a deep dive into all things peptides. If you don't know what peptides are, you're gonna, you're gonna know after today's show. And it's, it's a, it's a good one, trust me. Very excited about this one. In case you can't tell, this podcast is brought to you by Kion, my company. At Kion, we. It's like a playground. I can travel around the world talking to all these brilliant people, podcasting with all these researchers and physicians and sc. Then I can turn around to my team at Kion and we produce amazing supplements formulations. Your mind is going to be blown by some of the new stuff we're rolling out. And our existing suite, from immune system enhancements to gut support to fat loss, it's all there at Kion, our core suite of supplements. Right now, if you were to just have those alone in your pantry, you would be operating at peak efficiency. And we are highly committed to quality for our bars, for our coffee, for our supplements. There you can guilt free use because I vouch for it. This is the same stuff I use every day. And I'm incredibly proud of what we've produced at Kion and we're going to continue to produce amazing products and supplements for you. So if you want to get on the Kion bandwagon, if you want to join the team, join the tribe. Get access to all our articles, all our ebooks, all our amazing products, everything else, just go to getkion.com getkion.com I've got a 10% discount code for you that works site wide and it's BGFY. That's bgf10.com this podcast is Also brought to you by an equally amazing company devoted to supreme quality in their products. They make some of the best tasting, the best tasting superfood powders in existence. I was actually just over at the home of the founder of this company last night. This guy practices what he preaches. Drew Canole. He is into sound healing and gardening and positive emotions and extremely organic, certified organic. You won't find anything in his own home or pantry refrigerator. Because I pay attention to these things. People are actually walking the walk and talking the talk.

He is.

And I mean, you take his red juice, for example, the organifi red juice. You put a couple of scoops of this thing, or if you're like me, six scoops into like a Nalgene bottle, shake it up with some really good, clean, filtered water, or if you really want a full meal, like some coconut milk or almond milk, chill it for a little while. And in that bottle you have would pay well if you put six scoops, probably $30 for at your local fancy juicery. And it's like pennies on the dollar. And it's beetroot and cordyceps and reishi and all these different super antioxidant berries. They've got a green juice, they've got a gold juice. So the only problem is that Drew has commanded me that I cannot tell you about organifi without my rollicking Italian accent. So here we go. To get the 20% off on all organifi products, you go to organifi. That's organifi with an I.com Ben and you use code Ben G20. Ben G20 organifi.com Ben and now that I have completely lost all my Italian listeners, my apologies. We can go talk to Dr. William Seeds and his sidekick Jeremy Delk for today's show. But do, oh, do check out organifi and Kion. All right, talk to you guys later.

Hey, folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And I have actually released a podcast episode, a pretty big one, about peptides a few months ago. But I still get tons of questions about these little molecules. Like, what's the best way to store peptides and for how long are they stable? What's the best most updated anti aging peptide stack? What's the best cognition enhancing peptide stack? Could peptides be used for things like hair loss, for example? That's one interesting one I get a lot. I also recently discovered a peptide that can stop gas and bloating in its tracks, especially in people with issues like Sibo, for example. So I decided we should revisit peptides on today's show. And I have not one, but two guests because I'm just an overachiever. So my first guess you may have heard of before because I've talked about a product that he has called Dr. Seeds BPC157. It's one of the only oral forms of BPC157 out there. But Dr. William Seeds is a leading researcher and educator in the field of peptides. He's actually board certified in orthopedic surgery, sports medicine, but also anti aging and regenerative medicine. He's kind of known as the go to guy in peptide medicine. He teaches this to other physicians and he is a wealth of knowledge, so we're very lucky to have him on the show. And then my other guest, Jeremy Delk, is kind of more on the business side of peptides. You may have heard of Tailor Made Compounding, which is the source via which I get the majority of my peptides, typically under the supervision of a physician who prescribes them for me from TaylorMade compounding. And Jeremy is in charge of that company as well as something called Delk Enterprises, which is kind of a private equity portfolio that includes equity holdings in things like animal health and sports medicine and human healthcare and pharmacy. So he's kind of a little bit more on the business side of things, but of course can also speak pretty intelligently in the realm of peptides. So with both these bad boys on the call, I figure we ought to be able to learn a whole lot about peptides. So welcome to the show, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ben.

Yeah, so the deep booming voice you hear there is Dr. Seeds and the other. Well, not to make your voice sound effeminate.

Or not mad masculine Enough, Jeremy, but Dr. Seed certainly came through, has a deep booming voice. So that's how you can tell apart, folks. So anyways, guys, we have, like I mentioned, done a show on peptides before. And on the show notes for this show, which anybody listening in right now can Access over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com AllThingsPeptides you can access.

That previous show that we did, but.

Based on that, I don't wanna spend a lot of time just delving, you know, the science of peptides. However, I think a basic overview would be good for people who aren't gonna drop everything and go listen to that.

Previous show right now.

So can one of you guys fill me in on just the basic overview of what a peptide actually is?

Well, Jeremy, I'm gonna just jump in right now. And thank you, Ben, for having both of us on your show, and hopefully, too. And you've got some very smart listeners. I've listened to a multitude of podcasts you've had, and I'm really impressed with the depth and the way you go at this. And I've got to appreciate the fact that your audience is very smart in this process. And I don't want to waste my time on little things, but the basic premise of a peptide is a natural signaling agent that's made up of amino acids and in sequences in chains or in cyclical type of helical structures that we use to kind of reproduce what the body already knows how to. What to do in signaling, neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes, what to do in cases of really, cellular mechanisms of homeostasis, of trying to maintain a state of neutrality in a cell. And really, the amazing thing now is that we can do this. We can find the pathways involved in.

Cellular progression in degeneration, and we can change that by isolating the signaling agents that may not be working. And we can mimic that physiologically with a peptide that induces that signaling agent, and. And that changes the game. I mean, we're doing something that's natural, that the body sees. I mean, as. I think, as you really realize, I believe you realize the body's intelligent, the cell is intelligent. We're just giving its capability to show us how intelligent it is. And this is why we're seeing this transformation in, I mean, neurodegenerative disease, diabetes, autoimmune disease, injuries.

It's changed the face of what we can do, and it's exciting. So I think that's just a nice little beginning of just understanding. We're really not doing anything and discovering anything that's new. We know all of these peptides now. We have the ability to synthesize them, reproduce them, and utilize them so the body can say, thank you, help me out. Here we go.

So why is it that you think peptides have all of a sudden exploded? I mean, these things have existed to my understand, you know, for example, in Russian sports, performance medicine, et cetera, for some time. But why are we just now kind of becoming aware of them, particularly in the US it seems like they've caught on like wildfire.

Well, Ben, we've known about. I mean, insulin's the peptide. We've been using it since the 1920s. So we really have a depth of knowledge of being able to use peptides. When we used insulin, we were using an extract. So it was the body could Use it and utilize it. What's changed is we can, the body recognizes these peptides and it breaks it down enzymatically. Hydrolysis it breaks it down really quickly. What's changed is we can synthesize these peptides and hold them 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes in the blood system so they're not degraded and we can do our signaling, we need to do. And that's what's changed. It's been dramatic. Able to now control that timeframe, that we can hold that peptide because the body's gonna break it down. And if it's produced in the body, if you can imagine a peptide may be produced in the mitochondria of a cell to take care of something in the nucleus, well, it needs seconds to make it, it needs seconds for it to happen. If we're gonna induce something exogenously, we need a little time. We need 15, 20, 30 minutes to get that peptide to the mitochondria to do its job. So that's what's changed.

If I could echo on that just a little bit as well. I mean, there's definitely a commercial component to it as well, Ben, with a lot of these, I mean, some of these studies you mentioned, some of the Russian peptides and some of these Russian studies, some of them going back tens and tens of years ago, that constitutes prior art. So while these studies are very exciting and very relevant, when you try to go down a traditional commercialization path of FDA approval or what have you, which right now last 2000s, there's more peptides in development than a lot of small molecules. But a lot of the prior art has been already been disclosed. So there's no IP protection. So the conventional path of 10 years and several billion dollars to get to market, there's not a lot of pharmaceutical companies at all that would risk that money when it's not actually able to be protected. So that's the other component where think of orphan drug status. However, this is a much more larger served population that could benefit from it than an orphan drug. But it's a lot from IP and the investment that goes through it. And I think that's where with development of sequencing and better sourcing of these materials. And then that's why I think most anyone that's getting this the right way is through pharmacies or something like that. That's all on a patient specific basis from physicians under their care. I think that's another component to it. And why, you see there's, there's companies that are out there existing that are completely Taking old peptide molecules and adding on different molecules to the back of it to be able to try and garner some IP protection, all the while may not being as effective as the original source peptide. So I think one's hand in hand, definitely consumer in an education standpoint, especially with what Dr. Seeds does through his work. But the actual commercial component of it as well definitely plays a part into it.

All right, so when it comes to peptides, I think probably one of the realms that gets talked about the most these days is the whole anti aging sector. Like I've mentioned peptides like Humanin and Mot C. There's another one called Foxo 4 that I know is used for this specific purpose. But what I would love to hear is a little bit more about how these things would actually be working. I want to get into the best peptide stacks for anti aging as well. But from what I understand, a big part of it has to do with cellular senescence and autophagy. And can you perhaps this is a good question for Dr. Seeds. Can you kind of give me a background on how peptides could be used in an anti aging protocol and then we can kind of delve into the specific peptides that would be best in terms of some kind of an anti aging stack.

You hit it on the head. This is, I think this will bring everything to fruition and your audience and yourself understanding that that's exactly right. Aging. Aging is really a disease. Aging is the number one risk factor for everything. Cardiac problems, autoimmune problems, osteoporosis, cancer. It's the number one risk factor for everything. And we've kind of come to a timeframe here where we've understood that the cell is so smart. When a cell is under stress, it's able to have certain receptors in the nucleus and mitochondria that will recognize something isn't right. Whether it's a bacterial infection, whether it's stress from work, whether it's environmental, any stressor the cell has different receptors to be able to pick those factors up. And what the cell can do is it can ramp up and organize itself so it can take on this adaptive stress. I always like to relate it to people lifting weights or trying to enhance muscle. A muscle doesn't get bigger by just sitting around. A muscle has to be stressed to improve its metabolic function and hyperplasia, all those things to utilize oxygen better. Well, it's no different with a cell needs to be stressed every day to be functional. What happens is you have this thing, we call it an allostatic Load where you've got a multitude of stressors, or it could be viral, bacteria, it could be just things individually where it's a big player, but it'll come after a cell. And that cell kind of reaches a point where it says, okay, I have to stop right now and assess how I can handle this. So what the cell does is it goes into what we call a senescent state, where it stops dividing. It's all about the cell cycle, and it holds itself in place and it uses a multitude of pathways to evaluate. Does it need to correct DNA problems, Does it need to correct protein folding problems, does it need to correct mitochondrial signaling to the nucleus? And we know, we're learning and know a lot of these pathways already in cellular senescence. And so what happens is we have the cell gets to a point of where it may not be able to handle all of that signaling, and then it stays in a true senescent state, not presinescent, but true senescent state, where it all of a sudden changes its phenotype. Phenotype, meaning the cell was genetically supposed to do this. Now all of a sudden, because it stopped and evaluated itself, it says, okay, I can't handle this. And then what happens is it starts producing cytokines and chemokines and proteases that are pro inflammatory to a cell. And what happens is that changes the whole makeup now of not even that cell, but what that cell can do to affect neighboring cells and stem cells. That happens every day. But our body is able to produce. We have an amazing immune system that can go and recognize these senescent cells. It can go in and take them away and we're done with it. Well, imagine if we start getting an imbalance of that, we're superseded with a pretty bad infection. Or, or let's just talk about aging, where senescence slowly builds over time and we build more senescent cells, the body becomes less able to handle those things. And that's really the essence of a progression of cell senescence. And cell senescence thereby kind of rules and governs how the body is going to move forward. And this is where, depending on where the cells go bad, this is why you have atherosclerosis, or you have kidney disease, or you have neurodegenerative disease in the brain. It's because that's where the locality of those senescent cells is the greatest, and the body can't handle them. So hence we have these amazing peptide signaling agents where we can go in and say, okay, we know the Mechanism of cellular senescence. And we can get very specific about going to transcription factors of the nucleus that may nuclear factor Kappa beta that start the transcription of Interleukin 1 beta and all these bad things that start to make cells go bad. Well, we can regulate that and stop that, or we can upregulate the immune system to come in and take care of more senescent cells. Or we can do both at the same time. Or you mentioned autophagy. We can do things with peptides where we can upregulate autophagy. And autophagy is really just a word that means time to do some house, cleaning the cell. That's what the cell basically does when it goes into a pre senescent state. It kind of, before it gets senescent, it takes that time to clean house, you know, to clean up the bad folded proteins or the nuclear signaling agents that are just awry. It has time to do that. And that's what we call autophagy, where it just cleans things up and then lets the cell go back into action. So we have peptides where we can upregulate autophagy. So imagine if you can attack cellular senescence, improve cellular immunity and improve autophagy. I mean, then you've got some magic going on and that's what makes this so exciting.

Yeah, I've talked in the past about some natural methods to improve cellular senescence, probably the most powerful of which would be some form of caloric restriction or intermittent fasting. And I know there are some natural nutrients as well, such as tocotrienols, a form of vitamin E. And you know, carcetin is another that I know can help out as a so called senolytic a little bit. But from what I understand, these, these peptides are particularly powerful at that one, two combo of inducing autophagy and cellular senescence simultaneously. So when it comes to peptides that would actually allow for this to occur, what are some of the ones that you think people should be looking into?

Well, I mean, so this opens all, you know, this is where it gets specific.

It can get more specific and you can tailor this to the patient depending on their age, depending on their issues, or if you're trying to, you know, the ultimate scenario is, is to start before all this gets bad and protect the body. Because really we're talking about cytoprotection, organo protection. We're trying to delay the process of this occurring. So you brought up like intermittent fasting, nutritional caloric restriction. Those have set the premise with exercise on understanding that Well, I think it's best to kind of understand the cell when it's either. It's like a seesaw. You've got this thing called ampk and you've got this thing called mtor. AMPK is all about turning the cell on and giving it energy. And that's kind of what nutritional calorie restriction, intermittent fasting. It turns on AMPK because it has this ability to stop MTOR for a while and turn on all these things that are important for autophagy and improving the ability of the cell to utilize oxygen and make ATP and make it efficient for the mitochondria. That's basically what that's doing. Well, you also need MTOR to build the cell back up. And what happens is there's a balance there that you lose. And the MTOR is really in a senescent cell, which it just goes crazy and continues and continues. If MTOR is going all the time, you can never have autophagy. You can never clean anything up. That's why this intermittent fasting and calorie restriction can be so valuable and can add to the value of using peptides, which are doing things to an even greater degree. So you asked what kind of peptides?

There's a lot of things. There's a lot of ways you can go about this. But I think just to bring to light, you had brought up MOD SC as a peptide earlier, and you guys had discussed that. Well, MOD SC is one of these newer peptides that we've identified. And actually.

In full disclosure, I brought this out about a year ago in bringing this to the community and discussing this from the research side and that this would be available soon for us to start utilizing. And MOD SC is really a magic bullet for autophagy, and it's something that is more specific. What it does is it corrects metabolic imbalances and it works to really improve the metabolic flexibility of muscle. And so in a way, it's an incredible exercise in the medic, because what you're doing is you're just improving the utilization of glucose. You're improving insulin sensitivity and your energy utilization. I mean, when a cell starts going bad, things like cell senescence and autophagy aren't working. It has to start relying on other utilization of substrates because it can't use glucose. Well, it's trying to use fatty acids, but it's. But that mechanism has to be efficient to make it work. So what it does is it starts using these other metabolistic things we know in the cell, like sphingolipid metabolism and mono alkyl glycerol metabolism and dicarboxylic acid metabolism. These things really are the big players of why people get insulin dependent diabetes and why cells don't function well. Modest C affects every one of those metabolism pathways. It corrects every one of those. And what's really interesting, Ben, is that we learned from octogenarians. A subset of people from Japan had this rna, this mitochondrial RNA specific to the octogenarians where they were making MOD SC into their hundreds. And what happens as we age, we all can produce modest C, but as we age, if you do not have that polymorphism to where you can continue to produce MOD sc, you lose the ability to produce MOD sc just like all the other things with aging, losing the ability to produce growth hormone and IGF1 and all of these things and NAD NAD pools, all of these things that are so important to cellular efficiency. So we can now take this MOD SC and introduce it to where we can change the metabolism of the cell and make it efficient and correct it and at the same time improve the metabolic flexibility that the muscle has lost.

And by the way, just in case people are wondering, the modesty is MOTs C if you want to look it up. And also from what I understand, Dr. Seeds, this is not something you would need to take every day, year round. Correct. As with many peptides like Apitalon, which I talked about in the last Peptides podcast, It's a brief 10 to 20 day protocol done a couple of times a year with MOD sc, I believe, if I remember correctly, it's just like a milligram for 10 weeks in a row once a week or something like that. Right.

It depends on the state. Let's say somebody's healthy and they just want to stay. They want to control.

And moderate that metabolism so everything's functioning at its highest and they want to improve their exercise capacity of the cell. Then that's basically something where you would use 10 milligrams and you'd use it once a week if we have. And that's a subcutaneous injection. And what you need to know about MOD SC is it is very fragile. It needs to be kept in a dark space in a refrigerator. And once you reconstitute it, you've got four hours to use it or less or it's no good anymore.

Yeah. So it comes in a powder, you have your bacteriostatic water. And then like right before you would inject like a, like a 10 milligram vial of it, you'd add A milliliter of bacteriostatic water, then just use an insulin syringe to inject that, for example, subcutaneously around the abdomen, right?

That is correct. And you want to let it sit for about five minutes, just to let, you know, let it completely dissolve in solution, but that's exactly correct.

Go ahead, Doctor, if I could just. On that piece. Yeah, I would. Point. I know at some point last podcast you were talking a little bit about stability. I mean, modest C is very, you know, it's light sensitive and it will start to break down after about four hours, you know, once it's reconstituted. So I think that five minute window is good, but you wouldn't want to be kind of going much longer than that. Dr. Steeds, I know we had a couple of doctors that we kind of work with and they talked about, I think it's newer theories on human and modest C. I'd love to get your comments on there. I'm sure the audience would appreciate as well of some of them having a theory that some of it could actually.

Exacerbate the.

The breakdown of SASP and these senescent cells. Have you seen any of that literature or that theory or those message boards or anything on colleagues about kind of breaking down the secretion of IL6 and IL1B and IL8, that kind of thing?

Well, there's actually, there's a couple thoughts with that.

So if you're improving autophagy, you're actually giving the cell the ability to self check and kind of stop that nuclear factor Kappa beta transcription of the nucleus that leads to interleukin 1, interleukin 6, tumor necrosis factor alpha. All these things that cause that senescent aspect of the cell. What's really interesting is that mod sc works in down regulating what we call GSK3. And this is a really, it's glycogen synthase kinase 3 and it's very specific to inflammatory processes in cell. And if you can control this GSK3 beta activation, you control a tremendous amount of disease processes in a cell. And that is, I mean, that's really where the magic is. And, and I think that there are specific. We could go down all the pathways of controlling senescence. But on the other side of this, you have to be very careful. And this has to do with things like nad. Also, if you're using NAD with senescent cells, depending on the state of the senescent cell, MOD SC may not be the thing you want to use right off the bat. How sick somebody is because you got to control the cell senescence. Sometimes these activators can upregulate cell senescence. I know that's contradictory, but it's really the art of understanding that if somebody's really sick, you have to attack cell senescence first with other autoimmune issues, using like TA1, TB4 things to go after that senescent cell from the immune side, and using things like potentially GLP1 receptor agonists like liraglutide, those type of things that you can go and improve autophagy while you're improving senescence. And then you can come back later with the MOD SC to upregulate the efficiency of the cell. Because if you do it too soon, and I know this because I've been there, you can make things go south pretty quickly.

Now, when you say somebody who's sick, what do you mean?

So when I say sick, I mean they've got a serious autoimmune disease that's really taking them down, or serious TBI or degenerative disease where I know they have a lot of senescent cells that are active. That's how I look at disease. I look at disease as cells that are senescent and how significant they are. Because. Because really, Ben, what you need to. What everybody needs to understand is these senescent cells, we have the perfect system to correct our cellular imbalance of problems, right? We have this ability to improve stem cells that are already there. You hear about people injecting stem cells in their body. What about the stem cells we have that are already in our body ready to do the work? Well, it's these senescent cells that tamp that down. If we can control that cell senescence, we've got all our stem cells working for us in muscle, around endothelial cells in the heart. We in the brain, we can improve this. And so then coming in on that aspect of directive to senescent cells you brought up FOX four, FOX four O is a peptide specific.

Is it FOX four O or FOXO four?

Foxo four dri.

Okay.

Yeah. And DRI just has to do with the derotational element of. We're synthetically making this Foxo 4 peptide because we're gonna trick this thing called P53 that's in the nucleus, we're gonna pull it out of the nucleus, and then the cell goes right into apoptosis. And it's specific to just senescent cells. It's cell directed. And that's how efficient and precision like we're getting with these peptides.

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Okay, so we've got MOT C Foxo 4 as two kind of components of a stack that would limit cellular senescence and also induce some amount of cellular autophagy. What about this, this humanin peptide? Because I often hear that one mentioned in the context of these other two.

So humanin is another mitochondrial derived peptide. It's in the same category as modest C. It's another. So what happens is the cell's going bad, it's got the senescence affecting it. And the nucleus sends this signal to the mitochondria saying guys, I'm in trouble, help me out. So the mitochondria produces these mitochondrial derived peptides. And humanin is another one, another mitochondrial peptide that is very, very specific for also attacking aspects of what MOD SC does. Not to the level of modest C, but it has some really other cool things of where it can take badly folded proteins and improve the autophagy, the removing those unfolded proteins. And it has to do with chaperones and this thing called Lamp 2, which is a ligand on a lysosome. And so it's just basically cleaning up bad proteins and removing them. So humanin has that ability to really help with controlling that. And also it helps with premature cellular apoptosis because when things go bad.

Sometimes cells prematurely just go through a process of where they die. And you don't want that. And this human has the ability to stop. It can attach itself to this thing we call it's a Bax protein. And what it basically stops is apoptotic process in the cell. And so if we know that, we've got some really interesting ways of. So this peptide not only works in that fashion, it works in the brain, it works on. If you can imagine when a blood vessel like atherosclerosis, when things are going bad, what's really happening is there is this process, this crouple like protein. It's a protein that has an effect on Enos and an effect on endothelium 1 in a cell. And basically what it's doing is it's making that vessel stiffer and it's promoting the probability of atherosclerosis. Well, huumin can go right in and up regulate this crouple like factor too. And what happens, we know that people, if you have too much glucose, if you're in a diabetic state, that decreases this cropping like peptide, this signaling. So Huumin can go in and affect that. It can also go to the brain, which is just another amazing process of where everybody's heard about plaques and the buildup of plaques in the brain. Well, humanin actually can go after these things called their FPRL1 proteins that are basically functional receptors that are part of amyloid beta. This conglomerate of amyloid beta is like a peptide actually that builds up in the brain and causes neurodegenerative disease. It's what all the research has been focused on. That and tau type of proteins. Well, these signaling agents or receptors can be inhibited directly by humanin and it can stop that process. So you can not only work on autophagy with these other ones, you can stack huuminin and you can actually go in and attack structures specific receptor responses. I just can't. It's just fascinating where we can go when we start understanding the process of how.

These peptides can be so powerful. If you understand the pathways and you understand this fact of just what I talked about, vascular disease, you can improve ischemia and reperfusion based on the knowledge of mitochondrial dysfunction and the issues that happen with not being able to make huumin because huuminin has that direct effect on the vessel.

So with Huminin and Foxo 4, is it similar to Mot C where you would just do like a subcutaneous injection for certain times during the year?

Yeah, so the huuminin is a little more complicated. We're actually in the process of just starting. So the International Peptide Society, we have a few IRBs going right now. And this huminin is another IRB. We're going to be starting to really hone in on the correct dosing because it can be used nasally as a spray and it can be used subcutaneously. And we're kind of working those doses out right now. So I'd be a little hesitant to really jump on that. But it's. I think we're going to have some really amazing data coming out with this.

But Dr. C, just on the kind of a follow up to the dosing question and even more of like maybe stacking like, I know, you know, and Ben, I'm sure a big part of your audience, a lot of people suggest like running a cycle of like rapamycin or something after the use of a mitochondrial peptide. Would there, or could there be ideally maybe some sort of peptide protocol that would alternate, you know, foxo4dri and either mod sc or humanin to kind of help clear the senescent cells. Like, would that be something to look at?

So if you're looking in that process and you brought up rapamycin, Rapamycin is actually something, if we use it in really low doses, like 1 milligram to 2 milligrams, that is actually something where we can control MTOR for a short period of time and we can turn it off because it only affects one part of MTOR, which is the MTOR, C1, which is the Richter, and we're not going to affect the other part of mtor. So you're actually just going to turn off MTOR for a period of time so you can improve this cell's ability to go back into autophagy and you're giving. It's kind of like you're saying slowing down that process of a cell going into senescence. So that's another way. So if you're using MOD SC at the beginning of the week, let's say you're trying to devise a stack like this and you've got somebody who's healthy and you're using MOD SC at the beginning of the week. Well, then you may use the MTOR inhibitor toward the end of the week. You want to space them out. The Foxo 4 or like Liraglutide, which I really like is autophagy type of peptide.

You do have to kind of space them a little bit because you want to understand what mechanisms you're improving and what mechanisms you're trying to slow down.

So let's say this. Let me just give you a broad example of I've got somebody that, that maybe is like Ben, who is dealing with giardia right now. And I know with the gia.

Yeah, we were talking about that before the call. I'm clinching during this entire podcast because I was at a wilderness survival course over the past three days and came back with apparently that homemade sand and charcoal based water filter I used didn't quite do the trick.

Ben, I shouldn't have disclosed that, should I? No, that was my fault.

There's a visual for folks.

I'm sorry, but it's a great example of all of a sudden you've got this influx and you've got something where the cells are. Your body's focused on this right now and it's trying to deal with this process and you've got cells trying to go into more of a senescent phase and produce more. Because inflammatory agents are good sometimes, right? Because they're going after the cells that the giardia has affected. So in a way, your body's trying to get rid by creating senescence, it's trying to actually get rid of it. So it can work to your favor to have that stuff happen too in the beginning so you can do things to upregulate and help that you talked about lo37.ll37 is an amazing peptide if you know how to use it. And what I say by that is it's an antimicrobial peptide.

And just to back up For a second, LL37, our mutual friend who has the show Superhuman Radio, Carl Lenore, first told me about LL37 when I told him that I was exploring different ways to eradicate sibo and gas bloating as a peptide that could be used for some pretty noticeable gut stability and immune function. I got my hands on some and I've only been using it for the past, really the past week or so. Fortunately, there's even a little bit of literature I found that indicates it may have some effect on parasitic activity as well. So I'm fortunate to have some on hand at the time. But just a quick background on LL37 for folks. It's a new one I haven't talked about on the show before, but seems particularly useful for the gut.

Well, that's. And I think this is where we could just take a couple minutes to just to really put this.

In a good understanding of how this peptide can be very powerful, but also how it can be the wrong thing to use. And I'll elaborate on that. And yeah, that's interesting. You talked about Carl. I introduced that to Carl. But Carl is like, you Know Carl, I mean, he goes to the extreme of using some of these things and self utilizing peptides to, you know, to where he is the. I would call Carl like the ultimate lab rat.

He takes the guinea pigging thing to the next level.

He absolutely does. But. But he's helped a lot of people just like you have with what you've brought to light and what you bring for your listeners. I think just one understanding to have. If we look at the gut, the gut is something that can go incredibly well or incredibly wrong. I think the basic understanding and premise of a gut is to know that the gut only works if we have all of these bugs, these bad bacteria that are normal bacteria that we should all have working for us. There's thousands of species of bacteria, but an individual usually carries around like 126 different species. And everybody has different species in their bowels. But they all kind of do the similar thing for that person based on their genetic makeup and other phenotypical changes that occur. But the bottom line is you've got these bacteria that if you're feeding the gut the right nutrients, fiber and low carbohydrate, medium carbohydrate, not saturated fats, you're giving the body what it needs. Those microbes make these things called short chain fatty acids. And these short chain fatty acids are usually butyric acid, acetate and propionic acid. Really it's the butyric acid or the butyric fatty acid. That is what the cell, the intestinal cell, 80% of its energy comes from what that bacteria makes. So it makes that cell healthy and it enables it to produce the mucus and all of the things and it, and have the barriers of the cells tight. It enables it to do what it's supposed to do if you have an infection.

And what people may not know is when that cell is healthy and that butyric acid's working, it causes the cell to make its own antimicrobial, which is LL37. And LL37 sits in the colonial and it helps attack the wrong bacteria. And what happens is you have, let's say you eat the wrong diet or you get an infection like you're dealing with right now. Those colonic cells are up regulating LL37, trying to deal with the bacteria or parasite. And the bacteria can't produce as much butic acid. So LL37 production goes down. So you're in a great place to use LL37 to fight this bacterial infection at the same, or parasitic infection at the same time while you're prove or you're using more starch resistant oligosaccharides, things like that to make everything work right to cure the colon. So what you're doing is you're improving. You're not changing the microflora in the bowels that are creating the bloating and the gas and all the things that happen. You're giving your body the ability to like, okay, know what to do, let's take care of it. And that's why we tell people, you know, for something you're trying to fight off right now, it would be probably like a four to six week time frame of like 100 milligrams of LL 37 in the morning and LL 3700 milligrams at night.

Yeah. And it should be, should be noted, noted by the way, that even in the absence of something like giardia or parasitic infection, which I'm fighting right now, in a lot of folks, they tend to get a pretty intense die off or Herxheimer reaction when they begin using this stuff and almost flu like symptoms for a couple of days. So it can be something that folks need to be forewarned about before they launch into this, that it could be pretty uncomfortable from the get go. Especially if you have something like small intestine bacterial or small intestine fungal overgrowth.

Yes. And you brought, that's really a brilliant point you brought up there, Ben. So that you're talking about in some people that have SIBO type of issues where they're really overridden with a change in bacteria, that can happen initially. And that's something that, and that's why you work with a physician and you work with these things so that you aren't, you aren't getting yourself into trouble or thinking, oh, I went the wrong way. Actually what you're doing is that's telling you you're on the right track.

Yeah, that's actually something I wanted to backpedal and ask you about because you mentioned the International Peptide Society and many people will go to websites, they'll look up like Peptide Sciences or Peptide Warehouse or some other fringe website and try to order this stuff themselves and piece together their own protocol. In my opinion, opinion, these are powerful compounds that.

Should be utilized under the supervision of a physician, especially when it comes to some of these anti aging stacks or the use of LL37 or anything like that. And I know a lot of people listening in, they might be scratching their heads and wondering, well, how do I actually connect with a doctor who knows their way around this stuff and has been educated properly. You know, if someone's actually trying to find a of physician who will work with them on a peptide stack, is there any best practices for hunting down the right person?

Well, before Dr. Sees if I could jump in because you just opened a huge Pandora's box like a hot button for me. I mean I think that's the. We worked a little bit with the IPS and Peptide Society and have even increased our involvement here late last year with them because we believe so much in best practices. My formal life I was in the cell space, adipose drives, sim cells and what have you. And I really saw how that industry went the wrong way by not having any self governing body or how things were actually, you know, it was never a panacea but shouldn't be marketed as a panacea. And I think we see that same thing with, you know, extrapolated literature and things that are coming through and then served out on the Internet for people that that really kind of causes a tremendous amount of concern. We get a ton of backlash from, not a ton, but a realistic number of backlash from our patients because Dr. Seeds is obviously a leader in this space and always on the cutting edge. So we talk about these new peptides and new stacks, new formulations and there's a conference I know next month that Dr. Seeds is doing and he'll talk about new peptides that won't be available anywhere. And doctors get really frustrated. And I think that's from what our perspective is and how much work goes into it, bar the protocols and the labs and the follow up and the physician oversight, just to be able to ensure that what you're going to be able to be able to assure the physician what they're going to be getting is a huge component, every new molecule or every new peptide that we've got to take on. We're regulated by obviously pharmacy boards and the FDA. It's around 30 and $50,000 per product to be able to get stability and mass specs and HPLCs to make sure that what's in that vial or that reconstituted solution is what it is. And we have to be able to track and do that. So that's the real scary part. And that's why we really love guys like you that are really trying to get the message out there from an education standpoint that the importance of quality and accuracy and physician oversight, having a team is so, so important that otherwise you can have, you don't know what you're really putting into your body. So I'm sorry, I hijacked that question. Dr. Seeds, I'd love to have your piece on it, but it's definitely a hot button for us on how important that component of it is.

Yeah, and, well, I think you hit it on the head. But the IPS is specifically. So we, I've just been fortunate to be able to have the ability and get the resources to get it started. And actually we've grown into, we're over 5, 600 physicians now and medical care providers on top of that, where we've built a pretty strong group of people that.

We'Re the only certified peptide society where we certify and we also have a fellowship program. I mean, we're really teaching doctors that know how to utilize these protocols, know these pathways, but also understand the importance of, you know, we set up the IPS also to be this, a governing body so the doctors could feel comfortable knowing that, hey, if I get this peptide, how do I know it's coming from a reputable source? And so we actually have a way that we evaluate compounding pharmacies if they want to become part of ips, where if they can show us the certification.

They can show us that the peptides have the potency they're supposed to be.

They've gone through the antimicrobial evaluation that they are what they are. Because you need a peptides that's 99 point.

99.8% pure, or you're in the wrong place.

Okay, so if somebody goes to something like the International Peptide Society, is there like a directory of practitioners there?

What we ask people to do is we ask them to send in, we have Kelly at the International Peptide Society that we have physicians in every state. And so we'll get people like that that will send in an email and we can find them a provider in their state.

That has been certified or gone through or is a member of our ips. And that's how we get people hooked up.

The importance of working with a physician is so crucial because the physicians are not going to be, you know, they have their oath in what they're going to do. But Michael Powell put a New York Times article out last, I think last March or April, and it was basically.

The vast background of sports doping. And this was done from Switzerland's Anti Doping Organization. And they ran tests on, I think 200 different websites, US and foreign based, and the agency put out, and this was in Mike's New York Times article, that over 80% of the peptides advertised on the web are either Unadulterated or just outright. So 80% is not a good percentage. And it's just so scary that Dr. Seeds talks about peptide bonds and the bond being very important. Okay, it's 98% assay the purity. But we've seen some even from. We won't stop where we've seen them, but we've seen some things that are in the market. We have our own Mass Specs, LCMS.

HPLCs here. And some of the things that you get, quote, unquote, debris, whether it's the wrong acetate salt or the wrong salt exchange, that's been done. I mean, you're talking about. Okay. I think there's a huge rationalization of people. Okay, I can save money from going to a physician, and I can. This physician, it's more expensive because he's getting a real product. I can get it online or from a buddy at another facility, very cheap. And the worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work. That's the wrong attitude. The worst thing that happens is you have no idea where this stuff is coming from. There's no quality control over it, and there's no oversight because these things kind of pop up and pop down. So it's something that's really scary. And I think those are parts of the things that really educate the public needs to be addressed, for sure.

Got it. Now, I would be remiss, not to mention a couple of the other things I wanted to get into on the show, and that would be one thing that I know is of interest especially to a lot of guys, and that would be this idea behind controlling hair loss. You know, that's an issue for a lot of guys, not just guys who are on, like, testosterone replacement therapy, who have a lot of DHT and are losing their hair, but, you know, guys who are losing their hair for other reasons as well. And from what I understand, there are actual peptide protocols that seem to work for hair loss. Can you touch on that?

Dr.

Seeds, I want to thank you for bringing that up, because that's actually one of our iron that we have that's ongoing right now. That is just. I just presented some of our early data on hair growth with these peptide protocols, and it's absolutely revolutionary. And I will kind of go into that just briefly without getting too scientific.

We are able. So if you understood what I just talked about, cell senescence and how senescence can affect the use of stem cells, but can affect other cells around. Imagine if you've got people that are dealing with loss of hair or Baldness, whether male or female. A lot of that has to do with how the senescent cells around it are affecting the follicle of the cell. The follicle stem cell part of it also is DHT induced suppression of these hair follicles and the hair follicle stem cell. It's about differentiation of that stem cell. Well, if we know that and we understand that there are pathways involved that are implicated in follicular development. We know it. We know it's called the WNDT B catenin pathway. We have found this peptide. It's called ptdbm. It's a lengthy peptide, but it's actually a short peptide. But it's a peptide that we use to actually affect the suppression of Wnt B catenin pathway. Because there's this thing called CXX5 and it's an inhibitor of the WNTB catenin pathway. Well.

This PTD DBM can actually stop that inhibition and upregulate this pathway that rescues the stem cell from this process of being suppressed. Well, we know that, we know things like valproic acid is something that can also add to.

The issue of affecting this WNTN B catenin activator. And we know actually if we do dermal abrasion or if we introduce some trauma, say to the skin, that's another way to cause follicular neogenesis.

On top of that, we know things like TB4 T4 has a great way of going after senescent cells in affecting something called Interleukin 1 beta. And the thing I brought up before, the nuclear factor kappa beta, which induced cell senescence. Well, TB4 can actually turn that off and can promote.

That's different than TB500. You're talking about thymosin beta 4, right?

Well, it's actually the same. TB500 is just a generic name that came up that, that it's really Thymus and beta 4, but it's the same thing that TB500 is Thymus and beta 4. And so we can use that, all of those in a stack. And also something like we use ghkcu, which is a peptide, it's a tripeptide that is an amazing peptide that up regulates, down regulates certain genes. But it's all about wound repair, stem cell activation. And it has this copper component that is very, very important in inducing wound care and actually proliferation and activation of stem cells. We developed this stack and we started implementing this through about 18 centers. And Ben, in three months we're seeing amazing hair growth. I mean, we're growing hair.

So the stack one more time. It's PTD, DBM. It's thymosin beta 4. And what was the last one?

GHKCU.

Also valproic acid.

And we do microderm abrasion at the same time. So you abrade the scalp to improve it. And so we actually have, like, the ghkcu, we've got in foam type of application where you can rub it on the scalp, and that'll be impregnated into the dermal abrasion. The TB4 is injected. We'll use it. We'll use that as a sub q injection. Because TB4 can go anywhere, and it recognizes where it needs to be utilized. You don't have to inject it right into the scalp. Okay. Yeah.

Okay, got it.

And we're doing PRP topically as well. Dr. Seats on that protocol.

We're doing PRP topically As well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's kind of a multimodal approach. That's. That's very interesting. I know. For example, one of our mutual friends, at least I think you guys know Dr. Craig Conover. He and his wife do a lot of, like, hair and skin treatments, and I think they're using things like peptides, prp, lasers, et cetera. But, yeah, it seems that you gotta throw a few things into the mix. But I think thethe idea of peptides for hair loss seems to kind of fly under the radar right now. So I'm sure a lot of guys will be interested in that stack of those three you mentioned.

We're attacking all the pathways, Ben. I mean, we know what causes it, so why not go after the root cause? If you can go after the root cause, you can correct everything.

Yeah, yeah. Now, another area in addition to hair loss that I know a lot of people are interested in, and I even mentioned intranasal administration or something called C Max on my last peptides podcast is something that's a pretty potent nootropic and seems to work really, really well in combination with something like aniracetam or piracetam supplementation.

Are there other good peptides or peptide stacks specifically for things like memory or cognition?

Oh, boy. That opens another Pandora's box. Absolutely.

So we.

We have another IRB that's about to start on something really exciting, which is what we call fgl. It's like a neural adhesion molecule. It's a mimicking molecule of a neural adhesion molecule. That's a structural type of thing that helps synaptic plasticity of the neurosynapse. And we know that can improve memory. And actually, we actually know with this FGL peptide that even in people that aren't impaired in memory, we can improve memory. That is a huge step forward in understanding that. We actually can take somebody with normal memory and improve it. I mean, that's really telling you when you're on target. There's been, there's been a lot of money thrown at this peptide too, with investigation. I know in Europe they spent probably over $60 million developing this and taking this to fruition to get it on the market. And it just basically is an incredible neurotrophic factor that improves the glial cells. It improves the. What it does so well is it takes, you have these microglial cells that are in the brain that are like, they're a cleanup mechanism of the brain. And what you want is you want those microglial cells not over activated. And so this FGL can put the microglial cell into what we call a quiescent state where it's not in senescence, it's just in the perfect state, ready to react when it needs to react. And that really changes the game in the brain because a lot of things can go wrong quickly. And inflammation is something in the brain that can really take hold.

This day and age, with the way we live in this world and the sleep we don't get, the stress we have. I guarantee you everybody's dealing with neuroinflammation.

That's a whole other topic. But it's, but it's real. So we have ways to maintain that microglial cell and at the same time upregulate the ability of say, the hippocampus to work better in controlling and consolidating memory and influencing even the local production of what we call IGF1, which is real important in consolidation of memory.

We know these mechanisms. If you know the mechanisms again.

Then you've got something that's amazing. And actually the point you brought up about it can be administered intranasally. But the problem with that is you have to use really high doses of it. And it's very expensive at high doses. So we've gone to a place where we're using sub Q of, say intranasally. We've looked at 25, 100, 250 milligram dosings. Well, we can go down to 1 milligram dosing a day.

If we use sub Q1 milligram subcutaneously of each of those FGL Dihexa and Cerebralysin no, no, no.

I'm just talking right now about fgl. Okay, so if I use something like that, that's what we've done. We've gotten to the sub Q. You brought up Dihexa. Dihexa is something that is. Oh my gosh. You brought up one of my favorite neuropeptides. That's a game changer in my opinion, in neuroinflammation and neurodegenerative disease. But also I think in the same fashion of utilizing.

This fgl, it upregulates brain derived neurotrophic factors that are really important. And we're just learning now, we could go down this road right now and talk about the fact that we've kind of come to a place now where we're understanding people that are dealing with depression and anxiety and issues of where they were using SSRIs and MAOs and all of these things to try to work on depression and so forth. It's actually the brain's inability to make enough brain derived neurotrophic factor. It comes down to that. And if we can upregulate the brain's ability to truly upregulate that, which dihexa is a very powerful neuropeptide that basically it's got these amazing pathways. But what it really does is it improves blood flow to the brain and that enhances and stops all of these angiotensin things that modify constriction of vessels. So it improves blood flow. But it also works through different mechanisms of upregulating this brain derived neurotrophic factor and improving stem cell activation. All of these things you need to make the brain work well. But at the same time it has activity of where it can work against this microglial cell that can go bad. When a microglial cell goes bad, it goes through what we call a phase change. Dihexa can actually go right in and change the phase of a pro inflammatory microglial cell back to an anti inflammatory microglial cell. That's a game changer.

The nice thing about Dihexa is it's a cream. It's something you don't have to inject, you don't have to take it orally. We can do it. We can actually use it through topical application.

It's fascinating. Okay, so there was one other. And by the way, for people listening in, I've used C Max or cerebralysin before, both intranasally as well as. And I think this works a little bit better. Sub Q injection. And I mean it's amazing. It gives you like a good four to six hours of just clean brain energy. It's a very cool one. And I'd be. I'd be curious what a stack of all three of these would feel like when it comes to a good way to enhance the brain during a typical day of work or sleep deprivation or jet lag or something like that. But there's one other peptide mechanism that I wanted to ask you about because you had mentioned this to me, Dr. Seeds, and that's some of these growth hormone secretagogues, and particularly some of these ghrelin receptor peptides. I think GHSR1a and GHSR1b were the ones that you mentioned. What exactly are those? And where would those fit into a protocol? Why would someone use something like that?

That comes to the core of understanding so really quickly. The brain has the capability of making its own growth hormone that is designed for your body and your body actually pulses it out. Okay, and what happens as we get older, or we have inflammation, or we have diabetes, or we have things that affect the body and inflame it and build up senescent cells again, that acts to dampen the brain's ability to release its own growth hormone. So we have these peptides which are called GHRHS and GHRPS. The GHRHS are like the CJC 1295 or the MOD 129 or the TeslaMorelin. Those are GHRHS, the GHRP or the ghrelin that you're referring to. The GHRPs are like the IPamorelin, the GHRP2, GHRP6, and those specifically have different ways they work on the secretagog of the pituitary. And what's important about what you brought up is the GHRPs or the ghrelin like receptors. There's actually, we've learned there actually are two receptors. There's splice variants, there's the A and the B. And what happens is if you take too much of a ghrp.

You can actually dampen one of the receptors. The B receptor will dampen the effects of the A receptor and will involute the receptor and actually turn it off. So you lose the ability of utilizing that peptide the way it's supposed to be. Because really what that peptide is doing is stopping somatostatin inability of the pituitary to release growth hormone. So these things like MK0677, which are really, it's an oral GHRP that is used very much so in the powerlifting bodybuilding and athletic world.

Yeah, that's considered like a sarms, right?

No, it's actually a peptide.

Oh, is it?

Okay, yeah, it's actually, it's a GHRP like peptide. And what happens is that's a very powerful GHRP that affects that. That exactly what you talked about, the B receptor. And you can take too much of it. And what happens is people don't realizing like if you take it, you have to be very controlled in the time frame that you take it. I wouldn't Recommend More than 6 to possibly 12 weeks of a cycle with something like that. And then you have to go off of it for a while because you're going to change that receptor and it's going to involute. And what happens is there's been some really, there's been some interesting data that's come out in looking at the involution of this receptor. If you lose it, we see really bad things that happen where you can have increased anxiety, increased depressive episodes because you need that receptor working.

That MK0677 has the capability of turning off that receptor. And that's a real thing. So it's a great peptide to utilize. You have to know how to utilize it. Right. So that question you asked is really, really important in understanding for people to know that you really have to use these things correctly for them to be working.

And it goes back to the online piece or even some pharmacists are going through and what patients are, patients themselves are asking for. And re stresses the importance of going to a position that's well versed and certified and accredited in this space because there's so many things online of just taking ipamorelin sac but not combining it with the other side like a SCJC1295 or something to balance that out. We know you'll get the result for a couple months, but we don't know how long that receptor's turned off or if not forever. So it's definitely something that's very, very important for anyone not considering going to physician to really rethink that.

Yeah. And just to take that further, what people don't realize. So let's say people just take CJC1295 by itself or MOD129. They're basically the same. All that's doing is telling that pituitary cell, it's up regulating the production of growth hormone. That pituitary cell isn't releasing the growth hormone because it's got this inhibitory action of somatostatin that's holding it, that's why you combine it with the ghrp. Because when you use that ghrp, right at that time you're going to release that growth hormone. Because you want this precision, you want this working well. Well, if you use a GHRH by itself, you're not going to get the efficiency of what you could truly do because you don't know when that pituitary is going to release it. And on top of it, if you're not paying attention to your macros, you know, if you're eating carbohydrates around that time frame or fatty acids, that's going to blunt it too. So it really is relevant in how you utilize these peptides to make them work efficiently and well for you.

So with these couple of peptides, these ghrelin based peptides, what would be the actual benefit to someone using something like GHS R1A or GHS R1B?

Well, okay, so what you're talking about, those are just receptors. That's what the GHRPs work on. They work on the receptor. So.

What I was trying to get to is those are the. We know where GHRPs work. There's just two different splice receptors that they work at and that's how they work together to make the cell release.

Growth hormone. Does that make sense?

Okay, yeah, yeah. So this, these are basically more, more potent growth hormone secretagogues.

Correct.

Okay, interesting. So would this be something someone would use like prior to sleep to enhance both sleep cycles as well as recovery or muscle protein synthesis during sleep?

Oh, brilliant question. And you're just right on with this, Ben. So you just hit the, you hit the beat. I think one of the most missed opportunities that all of us have as physicians to help anybody in any state of disease, and that's control sleep. And what I mean by control sleep, I mean specifically try to upregulate what we call stage four sleep, which is delta sleep. It's right before you go into rem. That's actually when the body number one releases growth hormone. That's the only time it will do it. So you're enhancing and that's your biggest pulse you'll get during the day is during that phase. Another thing that happens during that stage of stage four sleep is you get this perilymphatic drainage from the brain. The brain has its own lymphatic system. It only drains during stage four sleep. And you can understand that's important because you're, you're removing toxic metabolites and so forth, proteases, cytokines and things from the brain during that phase. So you can imagine if you lose stage four sleep, you're not letting the body go through its natural repair mechanisms that it desperately needs. So that's actually. As physicians, our primary goal is to start everybody at nighttime, right before they sleep with ghra, GHRP combination or a GHRP by itself peptide to start taking advantage of what we can know in improving stage four sleep, release growth hormone at night and take care of also what we call entraining the receptor because we can make that receptor to do more of its own releasing also. So you can retrain the receptor, but the sleep thing, you hit it on the head, that is just, that's your golden goose if you can start controlling that. Because think about it, people who work out too much or who overtrain, they all have issues with sleep. People that have autoimmune diseases, cardiac disease, all these things have relevance in decreasing stage four sleep. Dr.

Siege, you just made a really good point on the retraining of the receptor, right? I mean you think about depression, different cycles and what typically happens. So if you look at like an HRT component and someone's using testosterone, what that will kind of down regulate production after a short course and then you know, potentially for depending on how long you are for forever. And you would need that where you look at these growth hormones secretags or growth hormones proteins and look at from like a CJC epa, you know, combination, even if you just did a short course, that that receptor will actually still be producing more than it was naturally. So I think the complete opposite of what you think about when you're augmenting something, it's because you're really stimulating that. So I think it's a really, really good point that needs to be driven home.

I've seen it. I mean, let's just take an older patient in their 70s and 80s that comes in and says, doc, I've lost my. I used to walk every day. I've lost that will to do what I want to do. I lost that kind of step in my, the way I walk. I mean, I really. Something's happening to me, doc, and my sleep is terrible and I don't, you know, I don't want to eat much. Oh my gosh. You can just change someone's life instantaneously within days by just attacking these receptors at nighttime before they go to bed. You just, this is how you.

We all realize a lot of things that work for patients work because the patient feels it, the patient sees it. It's not me telling you this is what's gonna happen. You have to feel it. You've gotta be utilizing this process to believe in getting better. If you have that ability to change the game instantaneously for someone, oh, my God, you've changed their life. Because the next thing is they come in and go, okay, something's changed for me, Doc. What else can I do to make things better? Well, that's when you have. That's when you can start working on exercise, you start working on nutrition. I mean, you've got a totally. You've changed the paradigm of healthcare. You've got the patient asking you the right questions. What can I do to get better? How could. And that's what we live for. It's getting those people that are so in tune to. They start becoming in tune to their body, to all these little changes. And it's like your audience, Ben. They're all seeking ways to keep themselves going without hitting those milestones of problems. Right?

Yeah. Well, guys, this is absolutely fascinating. I feel like I could talk to you for hours about peptides. I don't know if I can clinch much longer with this giardia, but I could probably go for a lot longer. However, we're out of time. But I've been taking a whole bunch of notes and I'm going to put all the notes for people over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com AllThingsPeptides I'll link to the other podcast episodes I've done on Peptides, and also to the International peptide society, to Dr. Seed's website and. And a whole bunch of other resources for you guys in the realm of peptides. That's going to be all over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com AllThingsPeptides. Guys, this has been incredibly enlightening. So thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this with us.

Ben, my pleasure. And I just have to say, your audience is very fortunate to have somebody like yourself that just pushes these questions forward. I mean, that's what makes this all work. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you for what you do.

Awesome. Awesome. Thanks. That means a lot, man. Well, well, folks, I'm Ben Greenfield, along with Dr. William Seeds and Jeremy Delk of Delk Enterprises, signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@bengal greenfieldfitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes. Use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.