The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs: How to Fix Our Stupid Use of Technology (& The Real Research On...

Prepare to put on your tinfoil hat baby. This episode is a doozy.

I'm no alarmist, but I guess I am an alarmist now.

Yeah, I'm an alarmist. Yeah.

Yeah.

In this podcast I'm a little alarmist.

Not as alarmist as my guest, but I'm pretty dang alarmist. This is whole podcast is on the latest cutting edge science on electrical fields and emf.

Stuff like wi fi. So stuff like Bluetooth what does to your body. If you're listening to this with your.

Iphone app, then prepare to be guilty.

Sorry.

Unless you've downloaded it or something and your phone's in airplane mode. In which case, good job.

All right, before we dive in, this.

Podcast is brought to you by something that allows me to bypass the mold, crappy water, and burnt toxin filled instant coffee in every hotel room on the.

Face of the planet that I travel to these days.

What do I do instead? I get myself some good water. Or at least relatively decent water. Like let's say Aquafina from the hotel. I pour that into the hotel coffee maker and then I pull that hot water. Instead of over the cup of coffee from the hotel or the or the instant coffee from the hotel, I pour the water over two things I travel with packets of the Lion's mane and Chaga mushroom coffee mix from four Sigmatic and then I add extra Chaga to that because I want my immune system to really get a boost when I'm traveling. So I pour the coffee over mushroom coffee plus extra Chaga 2 packets. If I've got a little bit of my organic stevia, I put a bit of that in there too. And it's like going to the fanciest coffee shop in the world right in the comfort of my own hotel room. Four Sigmatic makes a bunch of other things like a green coffee extract reishi, which is really good for naps or sleeping on airplanes. Speaking of traveling, a ten mushroom blend which is just. Heck, why not just shotgun them all into your system? Anyways, it's all over there. I'll put my favorites over@4sigmatic.com BenGreenfield there's going to be an automatic discount code too. When you go to that URL. Save you 15% on anything. 4 f o u r Sigmatic just like it sounds. Spell it. Come on, you smart cookie. 4sigmatic.com BenGreenfield this podcast is also brought to you as each and every episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness show is by Kion. Kion is my playground. It's where I Take all of my conversations with researchers and scientists and physicians and nutritionists and all of these forays that I go on all over the globe, hunting down foods and foraging for amazing plants and reading new research on things like ATP and aminos and colostrum. And kion is my playground to create new amazing formulations for you, along with some of the best training and nutrition articles on the face of the planet, along with an amazing coaching program for.

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This episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness.

Show, I've seen a study last year about the tattoo ink accumulating in your lymph nodes. And they realize that in some people it looks like if your detox ability is compromised, let's face it, I think only a fraction of the ink actually makes in your skin and then the rest has to be excreted somehow. Our average exposure in the city right now is a quintillion times higher than back in mother nature when it comes to these microwave radiation signals. So what he argues is that if you go back to nature, well, you have more recovery. And he's seeing that.

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Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield here. And some people, including my guest on today's show, would claim that you could feel a lot younger, like years younger, and make a bunch of health issues vanish with the click of a button, namely the airplane mode button on your cell phone. He's an investigative health journalist and he wrote a recent book on EMF electromagnetic fields, which I thought was going to be just kind of the usual ho hum. Cell phones might kill you. And there's all this random research in Europe, but we don't have it in America. Yet Apple is evil. Blah, blah, blah. But it turns out that this book has a ton of really good, independent scientific evidence in it that goes into wireless technology, EMF cancer, infertility, insomnia, depression, and a whole host of scientifically proven issues with this new form of 21st century electrical pollution.

He goes into everything from what your smartphone and your wifi router and your microwave oven have in common to why carrying a cell phone in your pocket can affect your fertility to a big, big source of EMF radiation in your home, which we're going to talk about today. Speakerphones versus earbuds versus Bluetooth earpieces. A whole bunch of stuff. This new book which I've actually mentioned on the show before, it's called the Non Tin foil guide to EMFs. How to fix Our Stupid Use of Technology, the Non tinfoil guide to EMFs. I'm gonna link to everything that Nicholas and I talk about over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Tinfoil that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com TInfoil and like I mentioned, my guest is Nicholas Pinault, and he's a health journalist. He's published over 1500 articles. He's got a newsletter called Nick and Jen's Healthy Life. And I like the book because it's actually got research. It's not just him saying a bunch of random stuff about how his balls hurt when he put his cell phone in his pocket. So we are going to take a deep dive today into that research. So, Nicholas, welcome to the show, man.

Thanks for having me, Ben. It's an honor. I'm looking forward to this.

Yeah. Is your phone in airplane mode, by the way?

It is. I don't even know where it is right now.

Good.

It's probably. Yeah, it's plugged in and it's airplane mode almost all the time.

Good man.

I actually don't have a number to call now. I just. My wife and I share one cell phone for our business number, and people know they can't call me anymore, so they just use Facebook chat or something like that instead.

People can't call you at all?

No, never.

Wow.

I mean, they pinged me on Facebook chat and it's all right. It's all good.

Did you do that after you wrote this book? Did you ditch your cell phone based on what you learned from this book, or was this something you already did?

It was over time. I mean, I'm not a. I don't know. I love in person interaction, so I guess I've never been someone who, for Long calls. I prefer Skype calls anyway. Video seeing people kind of, well, face to face via the Internet, I guess. But no, it's been a couple of years, I think. And then only writing the book and doing the research in the last two years only reinforced not using my cell phone abusively. And now after writing the book, I just do a couple of things differently. So I'll use my phone to kind of, I don't know, when I'm not doing anything, instead of just being on Instagram and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, I'll kind of try to do it in front of the computer where my computer is wired. So just changing my habits a little bit to reduce my overall exposure during the day.

Wow. Okay. I want to. Man, there are so many things I want to dive into. But I want to touch on the stuff I haven't talked about before on the podcast because like I've done podcasts on EMF before.

Sure.

But you have some really interesting things you talk about. So the first thing I guess I would like to talk about like the sensitivity to these electromagnetic fields and whether or not like certain people can be more sensitive and things that could contribute to increasing our sensitivity to the electricity that's produced by, you know, cell phones or cell phone towers or WI fi routers. So can you, can you get into that? Like what kind of factors would contribute to increasing our sensitivity to EMFs or vice versa?

Sure. So the research is really early, but there's one, one researcher in particular that has studied mechanisms that, that can show how these microwave signals or even low level electricity, so electrical fields or magnetic fields from the 60 Hz and wires in your home can affect human cells. Because the, the kind of myth around, and that's still perpetuated by industry and by physicists and by engineers that don't know about Dr. Martin Paul's research.

Dr. Martin Paul.

Martin Paul P A L L so this, this, this man has basically proven the mechanism that explain how is it that a non ionizing signal, so that's a very, very low power type of electromagnetic fields such as micro radiation from cell phones, Bluetooth and WI fi. How is it possible that the human body is affected? Because in theory what they taught previously is that, well, ionization. So direct DNA damage from ionizing radiation is the only thing you should worry about. So when you use non ionizing radiation to, to communicate wirelessly, it's all good.

What would be an example of ionizing radiation?

Ionizing. So X rays.

Okay.

Nuclear radiation. Gamma rays.

Got it.

So this is, this is Research from it was probably, I mean this 60s or the 50s when research was coming, coming out about X rays being causing this problem, DNA damage. So one of the things that I heard about is how dentists eventually got leukemia because they were using X rays on patients and they were also using X rays very frequently in shoe stores to make sure that children feet were the right fit. So at one point they realized, oh my God, this DNA damage is accumulating each time you get an X ray. So doesn't mean we'll ban X rays altogether, but let's face it, we'll only use it in a medical setting in a very controlled manner where we know there's more benefit than harm. So that was X rays and this is ionizing radiation. So when you go in the spectrum of non ionizing radiation, which includes well, daylight and visible light, which includes infrared UV, but also microwave radiation in the range of let's say 900 MHz to 3 GHz, which is basically your average cell phone these days with the 3G 4G technology. So the thought was well, it's non ionizing guys, so it's all good. So that's the premise. Then you get into Dr. Martin Paul's work and he showed the that on each cell in your body you have something called, well, you have multiple of these called the calcium channels. So the voltage gated calcium channels. And as the name entices, these are voltage controlled. So they are very, hows he puts it, exquisitely sensitive sensors on these little doors in your cells channels. And what happens when you get exposed to extremely low voltage electricity which is. Well, each electromagnetic field has an electrical component and a magnetic component. He discovered that these doors to your calcium channels get stuck open and the calcium will start flowing in as soon as, as fast as I think four minutes of exposure. In certain studies by another guy that looks at the therapeutic use of emfs Arter Pilla P I L L A if I'm not mistaken. So his research has shown that what happens is that extra calcium would flow into the cell and that the damage instead of being direct in case of X rays or nuclear radiation will be indirect. So what is it doing that you have extra calcium in your cell? Well, there's gonna be a. It breaks the homeostasis that's happening inside the cell. And one of the thing it does is that it increases nitric oxide to extremely high level. And the downstream effect of that.

You don't want too much nitric oxide.

Well, you don't want too much because if if you have the right amount. So there's, there's a pathway that will cause good effects. We know nitric oxide. You take supplements for nitric oxide, for blood flow and nitric oxide effect of exercise, that's good. But in excess nitric oxide, when the levels are constantly elevated nonstop, you get nitric oxide that will mix with superoxide to create peroxy nitrite. And peroxy nitride is in a nitrogen species that is very damaging to mitochondria, and that can now create a bunch of different side effects. And these are the effects from emf. So it's basically three steps down that you see disruption of certain bodies, systems in the body. So not a direct impact.

Okay, so this is what you're referring to as the nitric oxide peroxy nitrite cycle that's caused by a bunch of calcium leakage into the cell, which is caused by this non ionizing radiation that we get from something as simple as like a cell phone signal or a WI FI router.

That's right. And the one, one of the main issues when it comes to this technology and our exposure is that it's constant. So if this calcium is allowed to flow in constantly, well over time, if you compound that for, let's say, the last 12 years that people have been exposed to WI fi and smartphones, now you start getting effects, it might be over time. So going back to your original question about electrosensitivity, well, depending on who you listen to, it's anywhere from 3% to 33% that might, that might have symptoms. And it is very, very hard to study because it is exacerbated by so many things. So the no Ono cycle, that's nitric oxide, peroxy nitride. This is Martin Powell's research.

We call it the no Ono cycle.

That's right, the no oh no cycle.

And O stands for nitric oxide and oh no stands for peroxy nitrite.

Yes. Okay. Oh, N O minus, that's peroxy nitrate. Okay, just be. Should be correct. So Dr. Martin Powell, originally, before getting into EMFS, he was studying multiple chemical sensitivity. And he's trying to figure out, okay, why is it that certain people are chemically sensitive and is it a psychological issue or is it physical? And he found that there's a mechanism that is basically how much your brain is excited by the toxins. So basically, you have. His entire cycle is based on the NMDA receptors in your brain getting overly excited by chemicals in that case. And what does that do? Well, it actually does the same thing as emfs, so it will directly cause your calcium channels to stay open. So this is a synergy that we see between chemical exposure and that I'm talking about all classes of chemicals and is in his different lectures you can find on YouTube, you'll find where he explains how pesticides, heavy metals, organophosphates, so many types and different classes of pesticides all act through the same mechanism, which is NMDA receptor activation over and eventually it gets overly sensitive and then it allows calcium to flow in. So if you have EMFs plus chemicals, then the bucket might overflow, then the damage might, might be too much. Or let's say the calcium is so overwhelming to the body that you can become symptomatic. And what I need to add to that is that he shares in his research that the side effects are often local. So this might explain why people. Let's say you carry a cell phone in your pocket. Well, you have effect on sperm. But if your cell phone is in your pocket, it's probably not affecting your shoulder that much because the really high concentration of EMS or something to your crush is way higher than your shoulder or your head. And when you use it near the head, well, you have links you have met analyzes about cell phone and headaches that show pretty good correlation. And then the link very controversial still. But with brain cancer, that might explain why people develop or it looks like in the research you have at least 32% additional risk when you use a cell phone to develop a brain tumor on the same side that you've been using it for a long time.

Hmm, interesting. Okay, so basically what you're saying is this nitric oxide peroxy nitrite cycle and the influx of calcium into a cell from exposure to this radiation is actually something that Martin Paul has shown in research can be aggravated or made even more sensitive when you have things like heavy metal exposure and you're eating a crappy diet and you're getting exposed to things like herbicides and pesticides.

Correct. So, so there's. Even the picture gets more complicated. This Entire cycle has 34 sub cycles that honestly it's, it's really, really hard to study. This guy's been working at it for, for decades.

What do you mean? What's a sub cycle?

Well, for example, you have peroxynitrite, right? And you probably heard about something called BH4. And so BH4, it's like a chemical, isn't it? Yes, exactly. It's a chemical in the body. It's Tetrahydro biopterin. So.

That'S one chemical that's actually good to have a lot of in the body because it's directly impacts peroxy nitrite. It will actually, I think bring it down. But when you have elevated peroxy nitrite levels, BH4 goes down. And one of the mechanisms that could explain why do people feel very good when they go into an infrared sauna is that sauna therapy has been shown to increase BH4 tremendously. Therefore.

It reduces peroxy nitride.

So that's interesting because I feel amazing when I travel, which is obvious. You're getting exposed to both non ionizing and ionizing radiation when you travel. Right. Like the airport X ray. Then everybody opens up their cell phones on the tiny little metal tube that you're stuck on. I come home, sometimes feel like crap, and I get my infrared sauna. And what you're saying is I'm actually producing this tetrahydro biopterin, this BH4 stuff when I'm in the sauna. And that's actually shutting down some of my sensitivity to those calcium channels being open.

It looks like it. I mean, I couldn't say. There's like one study that shows correlation, but it's anecdotal evidence that's very, very interesting. And when you study Martin Passtoff, and I'll send you the entire cycle for people to study because it's complicated. But in the end it comes down to this. It comes to increase intracellular calcium, peroxy nitrite, oxidative stress, and then the cycle goes on and on and on. But there's also this entire factor. If you have just elevated inflammation in the body, if you have certain things, like you have elevated IL6, Interleukin 6, Interleukin 8, he talks about TNF alpha, INF gamma. So different transcription factors, if I'm not mistaken. Lachomia, this one. But basically, if you have high inflammation in the body, that's a short version. It will also increase nitric oxide inside your cells. So let's say you're someone super inflamed. You have all these pre existing conditions, then you get exposed to chemicals and then to emfs, you have the perfect slew of things that will make this cycle self perpetuate and then cause symptoms. So it's a slew of different things. And to that I could add mold toxins, for example, because.

Mold toxins?

Yes, if you have mold toxins. I know Dave Ashbury and a lot of people are now making the world aware of the danger of mold in your home? Well, mold toxins are known to block NRF2, the NRF2 pathway, and I know you've talked about it a lot, and what NRF2 does is that it controls the buffers of peroxy nitrite, so glutathione production or, or SOD superoxide dismutase. So basically, if you have mold toxins in your environment, you'll reduce the amount of, let's say, your buffering capacity to this peroxy nitride. Hence, if. If you're mold toxic and you have chemicals and this and that, now you're getting even more damage from emf.

So you're saying don't eat a bunch of blue cheese while you're talking on your cell phone, basically.

Well, it can be in the food, it can be in the air. I would worry personally more about environmental mold and especially look at Dave Asprey's documentary Moldy, that really talks about the issue. So if you have a. I'll link.

To that in the show notes, by the way, that's a good documentary. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com tinfoil I'll. I'll hunt that down and link to it in the shownotes. So this NRF2 pathway.

Which, yeah, I have talked about that before, it's basically one of the most important pathways involved in like, elimination of reactive oxidants and a lot of these. These inflammatory agents. Basically what you're saying is if we activate that pathway or allow for that pathway to be healthy by mitigating mold exposure, I mean, there's a lot of things that can activate. I recently wrote an article about how, like, consumption of exogenous ketones can. Can activate this NRF2 pathway. You talked about heat. That's another big way to do it. I know that. You know, Dr. Rhonda Patrick talks about the use of both cold and heat to activate this NRF2 pathway. What you're saying is figure out ways to activate that in addition to mitigating things like mold exposure and other forms of inflammation to actually decrease your sensitivity to EMFs and at least cause this stuff to be a little less damaging.

Exactly. When you stimulate NRF2, basically, it's your natural defenses that go up. Let's put it that way. You become more resilient to any kind of bodily stress, including EMFs. In that case. And Dr. Paul is not, as he puts it, he's not a doctor. He's a PhD researcher. So he doesn't do medical advice, but he recommends as an exploratory move to buffer this EMF damage, peroxynitrite is to increase NRF2. So there are a couple, a couple compounds that are known to do that. There's. I could find studies about olive oil extract being good EGCG from green tea quercetin. You Talked with Tyler LeBaron in a recent episode. Well, maybe not recent, depending on when people are going to hear that. But Tyler LeBaron, look at, look up this episode with Ben. It was amazing about molecular hydrogen or hydrogen rich water as he puts it. It can also boost NRF2. So these supplements, there are a couple supplements that will directly help you raise this pathway in your body and make you more resilient.

I've been drinking a lot of that stuff since I interviewed him. The hydrogen rich water, I'll link to that episode in the show notes. But this company called TRUSY sent me a bunch of hydrogen rich water tablets and I've just been dropping into water. I didn't realize it was actually doing a good job protecting me against the, the rigors of EMF or the damages of emf. But that's super interesting. Okay, so there's a lot of other stuff you get into in the book and I wanna kinda get out of these biochemical pathways for a little bit and just talk about some practical stuff. So this is also something we haven't talked about on the show before. A lot of people kinda raise their eyebrow on this. But talk to me about clothing. You talk about EMF shielded clothing and why you're convinced that they work. And I, I mean people have given me underwear like conferences that they say is going to protect my balls. And you know, folks will like, you know, wear giant essentially like Faraday cage suits. But talk to me a little bit about EMF shielded clothing. And also when you do, fill me in on whether there's an actual company that, that makes EMF clothing that doesn't look like birth control for your whole body.

Yeah, well, I, I'm really, I've been exploring that in the last few months as I'm, I'm actually working on EMF course for health practitioners. So I, I have to look at different solutions that really work in a clinical setting to offset EMF damage or to cure people that have chronic disease. And one guy that I interviewed in the process of putting this course together is Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, he's from the Sophia Health Institute. And this Klinghardt told me the average patient that we see has seen 23 different other health practitioners before me and what he considers the number one factor in ill health and the reason that these guys are not getting better. And I'm talking about als, Alzheimer's, autistic children, neurological diseases of all kinds, stage four cancers. He sees people that even the holistic medical system as kind of rejected because they don't find solutions. He tells me the number one factor that all practitioners are missing is emfs. That's it. That's his number one recommendation for insomnia for he says his number one technique to fight viral infections, retro viruses that he talks about. It's a brand new field of science he's studying and it's emfs. It's EMF mitigation. So then I asked him, okay, what do you think about EMF shielded clothes? And, and he tells me every one of these people gets better only if I use as, as many shielded clothes as possible. Even if it doesn't look so pretty or if it's not convenient and it can get pretty expensive as well. So in his clinical observations, I think this is worth a lot. This is probably worth more than certain studies because we're talking about very sick people and what gets them better. Now I'm not arguing this means EMFs are the cause of everything, but it looks like EMFs in very sick people are a factor that if your environment is not as close to nature as possible with very low levels of EMFs back in nature. In fact, our average exposure in a city right now is a quintillion times higher than back in mother nature when it comes to these microwave radiation signals. So what, what he argues is that if you go back to nature, well, you have more recovery. And he's seeing that. He's seeing stuff that, that looks miraculous from, from. That's crazy environment.

That's crazy. Maybe this is why like, like I've heard like Amish kids don't get autism and ADD and stuff like that. Maybe that's one reason is, is they're not getting exposed to all these signals. Well, I mean if it's like, if you're, you're saying Dietrich Kleinhardt, Klinghardt, and he's a pretty smart, he's like an MD, PhD. He's a smart cat. I'll link to his research in. But so basically he's saying is the root cause of a bunch of our kind of like our surge of chronic diseases, it might not just be like sugar and glyphosate, but it's actual EMFs.

Yes. Well, I don't know if you would say the root cause. It would probably say it. I don't say it personally. I'm very careful because I don't have any proof of that. But it looks like one of the root causes of not healing from these diseases is high EMF environment, let's put it that way. Maybe because it's simply preventing you from having the most restorative sleep that you can.

So back to shielded clothes. What he recommends is at least a T shirt and at least boxers or underwear for almost every single one of these patients that are chronically sick. And for people that have neurological diseases, he recommends either a hat or a shielded cap or. And there's one guy that did a pretty good study about that. It was a small group of people with chronic disease. I think it was autoimmune diseases and that were very medieval looking kind of cap or EMF blocking, hat on, and they had good results. And this study by Prof. Trevor Marshall, I think he's from the UK and he's actually, he's actually studying that quite a lot and he's reversing autoimmune diseases by wearing that.

By wearing a hat.

Wearing a hat and.

Hold on, people are going to laugh. He's, he's reversing autoimmune disease by wearing a hat. He's got to be doing more than that.

Yes. Yeah, it's not, it's not his only thing, but it's part of, let's say it's an important part of his study is what is it doing to, to people? How better do they get if they have the hat versus not.

Where do you get, where do you get this clothing?

Good question. Honestly, this guy, Prof. Trevor Marshall, I think he, I think he sells them, but I'm looking at different brands now. Prof. Trevor Marshall.

Trevor Marshall. Okay. Yeah, like Prof. Like professor.

Professor, yeah. Okay, Marshall, PhD.

Okay, I'll link, I'll link to his website too, along with this Dietrich Klinghardt guy and Martin Paul and some of these other folks you're bringing up. So I'm having to write down a lot of notes while you're talking here. So you don't use like a specific brand of clothing?

Well, right now I don't have any good recommendations. I'm looking, I've seen Spartan around that did a Kickstarter a few years back for boxers.

Oh yeah, somebody, somebody shot me. Yeah, like that. Like they're, they're a brand of underwear called Spartan. Probably get sued by Spartan, by the way, that do like, like A low EMF on her. Well, if people are listening, like if you're listening in and you know of like something that's, that's not just like ugly as hell, that, that can, that can block radiation. I mean they have a lot of like anti radiation kind of underwear just like on Amazon. Are you talking about stuff like that? Just like the stuff you can find on Amazon?

Sure. It's pretty much. I'm sure you can, you can, you can find good stuff on Amazon. It's just you got to be careful that they have, that the manufacturer will show how much it blocks. So you want to find, for example, a lot of companies will use, oh, it blocks up to 99.9% radiation. But that doesn't tell you anything because it doesn't tell you it could block 0% radiation at 1 gigahertz. So this is the signal that you're going to get from certain cell phones. And it could block 100% at 3 GHz from other cell phones. So you want to make sure that they have actually created a product which blocks the entire frequency range, let's say 900 MHz to 3 GHz. And it can vary depending. So depending on the quality of, of clothing that, that they use, the quality of usual usually will be cotton and silver thread mixed together.

Probably shouldn't get a G string or a thong. You probably got to get like the full, full coverage.

Coverage.

Yeah, full coverage. And don't put your cell phone in your bra either. Okay. So there's some other things that you get into in the book, like how you can reduce your phone's radiation pretty significantly in a simple, in a simple way. And I like some of these cell phone hacks. Like I recently tweeted this about how I've got this set up on my phone. Now I just go into the color settings and by clicking my home button really fast three times, I can now convert it so that it's only making red light at night. And of course I use night mode and I keep it in airplane mode when I can. But you talk like 80% is a significant reduction of the phone's radiation. How are you doing that?

So that's the difference. 80% is the difference between using the 3G networks and the 4G LTE network. So 3G is the third generation. These are kind of the older cell phone towers and the older network around. And 4G LTE. 4G stands for fourth generation. And LTE is long term evolution. That's a standard, that's a Little bit different. But let's say for the sake of the argument, it's pretty much a new gen signals or cell phone towers telecom network that we have access to since 2012. So 4G LTE is about three times faster than 3G. So most people, cell phones by default will connect on the faster network. And unless you tell your phone not to connect to the faster network.

It will by default do that. So you can go into your settings and I can tell you for Apple, but not for the other companies. But usually under cellular, you will have the option to turn off 4G LTE. So in other words, you're telling yourself, you know what? I know there's two kinds of cellular networks available. I just want the stuff, I don't want the 4G LTE because each time you go up in speed, you go up in radiation. So what I did for my cell phone for while writing my book is that I tested the radiation with 4G while downloading a YouTube video. And with the same YouTube video downloading I used 3G and I realized it's something like 80, 84% less radiation by using 3G. So if you're someone that uses their phone a lot, you will see a slight reduction in speed. And I mean maybe three times reduction is speed speed, but you will still be able to download.

It's not good for tethering. But like if you're just going to talk on your phone, like if I'm going to, let's say I have a conference call, just like go in there really quick, switch it to 3G and that's all I need to do.

Well, exactly. I would keep it on 3G all the time unless you need the extra speed. So if you need. Sometimes I do that myself. Let's say I'm in a coffee shop, I need to have a Skype call. It needs to be super stable. Maybe it's an interview or connection call and I need to use my phone as a hotspot. Okay, I'll just put it back on 4G and then I'll use the extra power, try to create distance, maybe put in a couple of feet away and then I know I can have the bandwidth. But you don't need it to be able to successfully use your phone in an everyday setting at all.

That's good to know. I never even thought about making that switch. Okay, I'm writing down all these things I gotta do. This makes sense. I like how practical this is. Your book's very practical, by the way. That's what I like about It.

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Now, what about this belief that's pretty prevalent, like when I post a study, like, you know the one that they did in the school where they put the plant next to the wi fi router and then they put another similar plant out in a separate room, and the one next to the wi fi router was wilted. People are like, oh, it's like out of school. It's a very small N population size. People raise an eyebrow at a lot of these studies. And you actually have found studies, you found meta analysis that you say shatter beliefs that EMFs have actually a lot to do with human, animal, and plant biology. Tell me a little bit about what you actually found when it comes to research. Get into some of the research that's actually compelling and proven and important and relevant.

There's so much of it, Ben, that it's almost ridiculous. The more I look into it, just before preparing for this interview, actually have. Maybe it's a bit overkill. 10 pages of notes here. But I wanted to pull up the most high quality meta analysis because when you look at a bunch of studies and these meta analyzes, they only get the high quality when you're using your.

Weird accent to say Meta analysis here in America. You're referring to a meta analysis, right?

Yes.

Okay.

It's just that distress thing I have a really hard time with.

That's okay, man. I forgive you. Your accent's pretty cool.

Thank you. Thank you. People say it's one of the sexiest things about me. Anyway, that.

In your underwear.

Oh, my God, yeah. And probably my entire tinfoil hat thing. I don't wear that. Anyway, 2016 review that looked at is, are these EMFs actually causing oxidative stress in humans? And 93 of them found effects. That's a 2016 review. Let me look it up. It's posted in electromagnetic Biological Medicine 2016, and the main author is Igor Yakimenko. I'll send you all these links after. Make sure. So it's actually 93 of them out of 100 showed yes. It actually causes infection, oxidative stress in human cells. So that's not like you cannot argue. It's doing Nothing. Right. It's 2016.

When you say oxidative stress, like, what's that mean, though? I mean, are there. When you say oxidative stress in human cells, they like putting cells in a test tube and blast them with cell phones for eight hours. I mean, like, like, what's the relevance to humans when we talk about these meta analysis? Because you know as well as I do, like, sometimes, like a lab study doesn't really transfer to the real streets in the trenches.

Well, the different things that they looked at, they looked at a review of the data, and I don't have all the studies they looked at, but basically they looked at the activation of what they call key pathways generating reactive oxygen species, activation of peroxidation, oxidative damage of DNA, and changes in the activity of antioxidant enzymes. So we don't know to what extent, but I'm just pointing out that if this is true, it means that, well, something is happening. I'm just trying to shadow the belief that nothing is happening here. And this is really a dangerous thing to be saying. A lot of skeptics are saying, no, it doesn't do anything. It's impossible that EMS or that WI Fi does something. And you have reviews like these that say, well, it's doing something. Now the question is, what exposure at what power density at what frequency is doing what? And we don't have these things. And that's my whole point in the book. I'm not arguing EMF is killing us. Is it more important than diet, than exercise combined? I couldn't say. But ignoring it is pretty stupid and it's not scientific. That's my argument.

So you've got all these meta analyses, you have them in your book as well, right?

Most of them. But I've got more that I found. One is on the effects on nature. So looking at. It's a 2012 Indian review that looked at 919 papers to see, okay, is there an effect from a cell phone tower in nature? Exposure to bugs, to animals, to plants, for example. And 593 out of 919 papers show the fact to nature. And their conclusion, they say that EMF exposure can change in animals, different animals, neurotransmitter functions, blood, brain barrier morphology, cellular metabolism, calcium efflux and gene expression. So it's doing something. And again, these are, these are non ionizing signal that some people still argue no, it cannot possibly do something. And you have 593 papers showing effects to nature. It is doing something.

Yeah, I mean like the research. We could talk to her blue in the face about the research because I'm. And people should buy your book because it's all in there and what I would rather do versus just like talking about all the list goes on and on and on in the book. And it shocks to me how many studies actually exist. I want to continue to talk about not just underwear, but other things that people, people can do to actually fix some of these issues. So another one that you talk about in the book is why you shouldn't hold your cell phone in your hands. Tell me why you shouldn't hold your cell phone in your hand and then what you can do about that. Because it's hard. I mean, I know that Dr. Mercola, who I've interviewed before, talks on his cell phone when it's on a selfie stick. But talk to me about why you shouldn't wear your cell phone in your hand or hold your cell phone in your hand and then what you would do instead or what you'd recommend instead.

Yeah, well I pointed that out in the book because in the fine print inside your phone it says to keep a distance between your phone and your body of 5 to 15 millimeters at all times in order to stay within the guidelines. The FCC tested guidelines for this phone. So it was just a bit ironic that you hold a phone in your hand and then you're already over the limit. It's impossible to use a cell phone the way that you should use it, in other words. So it's just ridiculous. So I don't know. I guess if you can make sure that your cell phone is in airplane mode when you carry it on your body. That's good. If you're talking on a phone and you can have it rest on a table in front of you is way better than holding it in your hand, in my opinion. And the reason is simple, is that near the phone is the highest radiation. If you create one foot distance between a phone and your body, you've essentially reduced 80% of the signals. So my thought, and it's just personal opinion, is what are you doing when you hold the cell phone in your hand? Are you essentially irradiating your blood? Because we know UV radiation is used in, to purify the blood and different medical techniques for biohackers use that. Like I don't. What is this one called? Kind of UV blood irradiation.

So you're talking about UV blood irradiation used to purify the blood is a good thing, but you're saying the radiation from the phone and the effect that that has on the blood is not.

Well, it might not be. I mean, you look at other effects. Otherwise, like near your head, it's causing problems. Near your crotch is causing problems. So it's probably causing problem near your wrist as well. But that's just a personal theory of mine. So it's not necessarily ideal to have a phone in your hand with earbuds. It's better than putting it next to your head. But it's still. It can. I think it's all a matter of not creating a false sense of security.

Because I'd say the less you're exposed, the better, the better off you'll be. And just we gotta be careful because we don't know exactly what is doing to us, even, even to people that don't feel anything. So you'd rather. I'd rather have people be aware that it's. If you touch the phone in one way or another, you're exposing yourself to high amounts. If you're not touching it, you're. I'd say 80% of the.

When you say touching, you mean touching the phone directly though. But what about some of these cases? Like, like I interviewed the folks from Defender Shield and, and they have like a. They have a thing that I travel with that I put in my lap, that my laptop goes on. And then they also have a case that supposedly blocks on that radiation. What if I'm holding my phone in my hand but I'm holding it inside of that case?

That's way better. That's way better. I believe in these Cases. I'm testing another company aside from Defender Shield. Defender Shield. I know I have great confidence in the company because Daniel Debon is an engineer with decades of experience. So I know it blocks. Is it 100%? Some. Some. I don't know. In a. Haven't tested the Defender. Defender Shield case in a real world setting, however, it's. It is deflecting most of the radiation that you would have.

They. They say it's 100%. Yeah, yeah. When I interviewed them, they said it's 100. They did like independent FCC certified lab testing, and they say that it blocks the full frequency spectrum of EMF radiation, which would be like everything you get from a cell phone or a tablet or a laptop.

I obviously have not tested that myself to see if that's true, but I mean, like, they've got the studies on their website. I interviewed them for like an hour and a half about this stuff. So, yeah, so that would be you. You could do that and not necessarily have to talk on a selfie stick or always have to have your phone, like, not in your hand when you're using your phone. Like if you're on a walk or something, it could be in your pocket.

Or in your hand. This would be the number one thing I do on a walk is having one of these cases. Because the way they work is that they will block whatever radiation would otherwise go towards your body. And instead there's just an opening on the side for the antenna. So that way your phone picks up 100% of the signals and doesn't have to ramp up its radiation in order to connect to a tower. And that's something not a lot of people know. But if you have five out of five signal bars you're emitting, your phone is emitting a fraction of the radiation compared to one out of five. Because if you get a one of the out of five, it has to ramp up the antenna's power and the radiation. I've heard things like, I don't know how accurate this is, but I think up to a thousand times more signal and more radiation is emitted when you're at one out of five. So it's really. If you use a case that doesn't have a good design, you could do more harm than good. In other words, you could block the signal going from the antenna to your phone, and then your phone will be forced to ramp up its radiation, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to be doing.

A lot of these, like Tour de France riders and professional athletes now they're Doing grounding and earthing, and then that's a big thing now, like earthing mats and grounding mats to keep us connected to the Earth's natural magnetic field. Is that a strategy that you could use, kind of similar to an infrared sauna to mitigate some of these effects, or are there issues with grounding and earthing?

Definitely a good idea. And I've interviewed while working on the MF course I told you about. It's called Electrosmog Rx Gaetan Chevalier. So Gaetan Chevalier is a fellow French Canadian, so that makes me like him by default because we share the same accent.

Absolutely.

And he talks about the benefits of earthing. He's published so many research papers in the last few years on the mechanisms and also on exactly what different blood markers estra are improved when you're grounded. And among other things, it looks like it's a type of antioxidant for the body. So it has a capacity to buffer reactive oxygen species. It didn't have any, any data on reactive nitrogen species like peroxy nitride, but I would guess it's doing the same thing. And just anecdotally, people that are electrosensitive, they each see benefits from grouting. And some of them, let's say they have. They spend a bunch of time in a WI fi environment or they go on a plane, on a flight, right? And most people are now using WI fi on planes and they have to ground, and once they ground, they instantly feel better. And it has multiple things that it's doing. So it might buffer the ROS that you've got in the reactive oxygen species from your environment, and then it reduces inflammation. And it's been confirmed with medical infrared imaging, where they've seen, in that thermometer mammography, they've seen almost instant kind of reduction in inflammation, but the benefits increase when you go to 20, 20 to 40 minutes of grounding. And then.

But you also, I thought you talked in the book about.

I thought you said something about how grounding might not be a good idea in certain situations.

So let me. Okay, so grounding is good. Is good. And I think, I think it's something that might be in the future looked as, as essential as your light environment and your food and your exercise. I think it might be something that we've disconnected from our lifestyle but that we need to reconnect and that might be so primal in our health. So I just want to preface this. And then if you ground the way nature intended it to be, which is you walk by the beach, you swim in a lake, you swim in the sea, you walk barefoot on the grass in the forest. Basically, you're barefoot, you're grounded. Some people now have started to ground inside, so they will use something like a grounding mat inside. Right. You can purchase these. You can look at. It's justearthing.com and for research, you can look at the Earthing institute, I think it's.org or just Google it, or Dr. Gaeta Chevalier. And basically it might have more. It might do in my backfire if you ground inside. And there's a lot of reasons behind it. But what Klinghardt told me is that he grounds everyone with grounding mats inside because he finds it really hard to have someone that's chronically ill go take barefoot walks or just do physical activity outside. So instead, he'd rather have them use a grounding mat inside. But what he does beforehand for everyone is turn off the circuit breaker to the bedroom. And the reason behind that is simple, is that if you're using a grounding mat inside, most people will plug their mat in the ground outlet of the electricity wires in their bedroom. And if there's still electricity in there, his thought process, and a lot of people in the building biology process profession think that is that you might have dirty frequencies on the ground that will get into your body and you might get more harm than good. Dr. Chevalier has other opinions about that. He claims that every single study he's done was inside a laboratory setting with electricity on, with WI fi on, and with so many dirty frequencies around randomly. It never. He basically didn't do the studies in a very controlled environment. And still people get benefits. So his argument is that grounding is always beneficial. Dr. Klinghardt and other people in clinical practices, they say just to be safe, turn off the circuit breaker and then ground. So that way you basically remove this risk.

Okay. So basically, according to these building biologists, using grounding equipment that's connected to an electrical outlet, if you're in an area that has a lot of dirty electricity or a bunch of wifi that turns your mat into a huge EMF antenna. But if you've got your wifi router off and you're plugging it into.

A dirty electricity filter or something like that, a bunch of wires all over the floor, then it would be something that would be beneficial.

Yes. And something I need to add and something that really surprised me when I interviewed Dr. Klinghardt is that.

He told me that in the first few weeks of grounding, let's say you've never grounded in the past 20 years, and most of us actually don't have a regular grounding practice. It tells me that most people will get way worse before they get better, because in his opinion, and Gaetan Chevalier actually told me too, that this can happen, which is it will actually kick. Kick up your detox ability so much that you might get a lot of side effects from heavy metal pollution in your body or heavy metal. It basically stirs up any heavy metal that used to be in your brain or in your tissues. Because grounding will put you in a. I would. As it would be. It's a deeper state of sleep. And your lymphatic system tries to flush out these toxins from your blurry. And I don't know what the mechanisms are, but both of these guys told me warning, you will feel like once you start grounding. But Klinghardt told me, you know what, to buffer these effects, you can simply have a bunch of tablets of chlorella with dinner before the night before, and you should be okay. So using some kind of grinder. Oh, sorry.

Some of the metals that get released. Yeah, that glymphatic system is really interesting. Like that waste clearance pathway that occurs of the whole central nervous system while you're asleep. Like, it's how you remove brain waste. And you're saying if you ground or you earth, that process is upregulated. And if you're kind of toxic, you need to be careful and have a binder in your system. So it's almost like a. It's almost like a biohack. Right. You take some charcoal or some chlorella and go to sleep on a grounding mat. And it acts as more functional waste clearance pathway for your nervous system.

Correct. So I guess it's. It's a tool that you want to be very careful of. If you're already. Let's say you're already detoxing, you're already feeling under the weather, and you start grounding all night long. Maybe it's not the best. And maybe you could start grounding. I don't know. It would be just grounding, like walking in nature a little bit and then. And then easing into it. Klinghardt is a little bit more extreme. He's like, no, just take a bunch of chlorella, ground all night, and then the side effects are gone. And other doctors I found, for example, there's Dr. Tom Cowan, who treats a lot of Lyme disease patients.

Yeah, I know him. He's been on the show before.

So he tells his patient personally 15 to 30 minutes per day at first, and then they kind of monitor how they feel. So it doesn't want to overwhelm their body with this toxic release.

Interesting. Okay, so you've also got this stuff called magnetite. That's not a supplement that you take, that's something that's already in your body, right?

Yes, exactly. Well, it's. There's actually two lines of thought here. I've read that a recent study looked at magnetite. So magnetite is a form of iron that's electromagnetic and it's found in birds, it's found in different animals. And what researchers found is that it's the way that birds will navigate. So basically, in other words, they have in their beaks they have high amounts of this iron oxide that is magnetic and it will help them. It's probably wired to their brain somehow. They don't know the exact mechanisms, but it helps them figure out, okay, where is north, where is south, how do we migrate. And in humans, it's found in human brains. And what researchers don't know, and if someone has more data, I couldn't find a lot of data here, but is it natural or is it because of pollution? Because One study in 2016 is very recent, has looked at magnetite content in the brain and they found that it might have been because of air pollution. So the air charge with some iron oxide, I guess from, I don't know. See, there's so much stuff in the air now that who knows where it came from. It's so global, the pollution. So they don't know exactly if it's a natural thing. I would think personally that we probably have a magnetic sense of some kind of to humans, even if we don't migrate. Just because I think that science has yet to discover everything that there is to intuition and even, I don't know, magnetism, for example. It's very interesting. Gaetan Chevalier was talking about the fact that there's probably a huge correlation between grounding and jet lag. And I know this is something that Dave Asprey has talked about for years, how he gets off the plane and he will start doing yoga in a park on the barefoot, of course. So he gets this grounding effect and he realizes that this will attune to the new place, to the new time of the day. And it's probably also light exposure. But what I think is happening, and Gaetan Chevalier is a top expert on grounding thinks too, is that there's probably the Magnetism is felt by your body. And it might be another way on top of that light environment, that your body will know what time of the day it is.

That's pretty fascinating. I hadn't heard about that before, how you actually have a mineral in your body, this magnetite stuff, that actually makes you sensitive to magnetic fields. And I've seen people talk about colony collapse disorders in bees or certain bird populations having issues with death. They're with not being able to navigate properly. And some people say that's due to all the cell phone towers and all of the WiFi and EMF that's kind of floating around now, and maybe even Google's balloons now that they're launching those into space. And this idea that it's magnetite, this stuff that's actually already in your body, that could make you more sensitive to that. I never actually realized before that we had this mineral in our body that could make us more sensitive. And this, this mineral, by the way, this magnetite stuff, you know, kind of like the chlorella with the grounding and earthing. Did you come across anything that could almost like protect the magnetite or cause it to become less damaged or less affected by these magnetic fields in your research?

No, I actually don't have a lot of data about that. I will be extremely interested to hear more because this natural innate sense of magnetism, I think it needs to be studied more. There's probably something to it especially, I don't know. There's so many things, like I hear about the earth map and what these guys do around the magnetic field emitted by the human heart at feet around you. And I'm so fascinated by these things because I think we have yet to discover so many aspects of our biology.

What about wearing things that are made of metal, like how that might act as an antenna or attract more EMFs to your body, like metal bras or dental fixtures that are metal or metal frame glasses or.

I think you don't you talk about.

Tattoos as well, like heavy metals and tattoos. I do, yeah. Tell me about, tell me a little bit about that.

Sure. So basically, when people get into a medical setting and get an mri, some people have tattoos acting because let's say you have red pigmentation. I think yours, yours has some red in it, right?

Dude, I've got so many. I've got green, black, red.

Okay. All of them. Okay.

Yeah.

So anyhow, sometimes you have, you have iron oxide. I think that that is used for red. But anyway, you have different, different also heavy metals that are used.

In Tattoos. So it's a, it's a slew of different minerals. And basically some people I think might react, might react to, to electromagnetic fields if they. My wife has a tattoo on her forearm and I think she got a rash at one point. And I was wondering, okay, could it be a wi fi rash? I don't know because, I mean, let's face it, it's a small antenna that's in your skin subcutaneous. So I don't know exactly. But at the same time, there are some other things aside from tattoos that are metal are in your body and that might be reacting. For example, one of them is metal frame glasses. And if.

The entire frame of your glasses is pure metal, there are a couple studies showing that it will increase the EMFs from your cell phone that your brain is exposed to. And that's pretty logical. You're essentially wearing an antenna around your eyes. So that's one thing to consider. In a high EMF or foreign EMF environment that we live in, minimizing the metal that you have on your body might be a good idea. But I don't, I cannot say. It's, it's. I mean, tattoos are just a personal choice.

And you did cite one research study that shows that heavy metals using tattoo ink are known to react with MRIs. And dude, I did a podcast with Dr. Jack Cruse where I went to London, and I did a full body scan in this fancy like MRI unit and it actually showed that I had a whole bunch of like, I forget the way that he described them. It was like poor redox potential, I believe was the phrase that Dr. Cruz used. Specifically the area that I had the poorest redox potential. My entire body was where I had a bunch of red ink on my tattoo on my right shoulder. It was just, it was a totally different color than anything else. So I think there's, I mean, the MRI was interacting with it and I don't want to be a, a fear monger, but it does. Like, if you can get metal free inks, if you're going to get a tattoo, it sounds to me like that could be a pretty good idea.

Yeah, or natural pigments. I mean, I've seen, I've seen a study last year about tattoo ink accumulating in your lymph nodes and they've realized that in some people it looks like if your detox ability is compromised, let's face it, I think only a fraction of the ink actually makes it in your skin and then the rest has to be excreted somehow. So if you have a poor detox ability, well, it has to go somewhere. So hopefully it's not kind of accumulating inside your body and causing side effects. But another thing when it comes to metal and WI fi, well, people that have dental amalgams, so these silver fillings that are 50% mercury, they leach more and faster when you're talking on a cell phone. And that's been demonstrated. That's actually. Well, that's two studies. But still, not all people are looking to this. But if you have dental amalgams, there's, let's say, some indication that they might actually leach more toxic mercury when you're exposed to WI Fi or to cell phones. So it's not ideal having them in the first place and then combining that, combining the chemicals and what we talked about, the no, oh, no cycle, you have the chemicals and then you have even more leaching in a WI Fi environment. So that's just another thing you want to take care of in your health journey, is removing these amalgams safely. I think it's just another reason to do it.

Can we say some of the same stuff about Bluetooth?

Well, pretty much Bluetooth has three different classes to it. There is a class one, Class two, Class three, and let me just look it up, I don't want to say stupid things here, but one class emits more than others. So you used to have devices that were Bluetooth, let's say Bluetooth earpieces that were fairly like not emitting a lot. However, these very, very low emissions have been, have been now eliminated from the market. So these were the class three. So.

The class three are actually have a range. Okay, so the new Bluetooth Class is Class 3, and.

They will emit 1 milliwatt.

Class 3 is less damaging, right? From what I understand, Class 1 is the one you want to avoid.

Yeah, exactly. So it's less damaging. The Class 3 devices, these are the less damage. But these are actually not available on the market. They're barely found. So now they've been replaced with Class 2. And Class 2 has a power that's 2.5 times higher than Class 2. However, certain earpieces are Class 1 and have a range, in fact of 300ft. So you could literally have like your earpiece, throw your cell phone. I don't know why you would do that. But anyway, you could be so far from your cell phone and still be able to get good connectivity. But that comes with a price. And in one case, a building biologist has measured an earpiece that emitted More than a cell phone. So this is really why I'm not a huge fan of Bluetooth. That being said, let's say you have Oura ring or even if you use, I don't know, if you use a Fitbit or if you use a polar heart rate monitor during your workout, one hour per day. I don't see it as an extremely huge deal if you do everything else right. We got to be moderate in what we say. And this is what I hate from when I got into EMFs. I found two very polar opposite.

Discourses about EMFs. And some people said, you know what? EMFS is the end of the world. It's causing every illness on the planet. It is the devil. And other people said, it does nothing. So I found myself torn apart. I'm like, okay, well, these guys seem to be both. And they are PG scientists saying both of these things. So I'm like, okay, who's right? Well, in the end, it's somewhere in the middle, it's gray area. So I think when it comes to EMFs, you gotta look at your own devices, how much time you're spending very close to a device that emits emfs and then your own WI fi router. And can you go wired? That would be ideal. Can you at least turn it off at night? And then if you do all these things right and you have a Bluetooth device that you use from time to time, I don't see the big deal. If you're extremely sensitive and extremely sick, however. Well, in that case, you got to take more steps to reduce your exposure. Just like if you're extremely sick, maybe a McDonald's can shatter you. I mean, and you're so, you're so sensitive to everything. So it depends on how much you want to optimize your life and how healthy you are in the first place. I think this is really how you got to look at ems. Just another environmental factor to consider. And then you take the actions that you think are necessary and you see the results.

I use a Bluetooth headset sometimes and it's made by that same company that I talked about earlier, Defender Shield. And, and if you guys go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com tinfoil I will link to the interview that I did with the folks at Defender Shield about this stuff. But it is a Class 3 signal. And again, you get pretty far from your phone. It doesn't work that well because it is class three. But the other thing I like about it is the actual little Bluetooth receiver piece. It hangs pretty Far away from your head. So it's not as close at least to your skin or to your skull. Because I think, and I've done it, I've done a couple of interviews on Bluetooth before. It's like there's not as many bodies in the streets or as much hardcore research as there is on WI fi and cell phone signals and some of these other forms of non ionizing radiation per se, but it's still one of those things. And Dr. Cruise again when I interviewed him about Bluetooth and I'll link to that interview in the show notes, he talks about how it could affect red blood cell function. He had some, some research that he had discovered on the effect of Bluetooth on specifically red blood cell function which would be of concern especially athletes or exercising individuals.

Yeah. And you know what Ben? It's important to know that Bluetooth essentially has the same signal as a cell phone. So when it comes to frequency doesn't have the same power. So consider it is the same kind of signal. It's a microwave radiation signal signal. So people need to understand Bluetooth is just the name of the technology is just, it just means usually and maybe lower power. So it is just so the same. Any. So if, if Bluetooth can harm your, your, your red blood cells and can change the viscosity of your blood in certain studies. Well, probably Bluetooth could do well Bluetooth and WI fi and smartphones and smart meters and cell towers, they each emit the same kind of radiation. So it's all to be considered. I think the one thing you want to think about is your accumulative overall exposure just like you would with chemicals. So how can you reduce your exposure as best as you can? And one step that I took and I gotta say I gotta admit it's been only recently that I started working wired. I used to be still on WI Fi even as a writing a book on the topic.

Use Ethernet now instead.

Yes, I use Ethernet and I just ran this 75 foot long wire that looks very ugly in the middle of the condo. But we don't own this place and maybe we'll have it wired in the walls. But in the meantime I'm spending all day in front of my computer, like at least six hours. Why would I need WI Fi? I don't need to move around. My computer is in one place. So it's just now I've reduced my exposure to WI FI tremendously and I like to think it affects my health. I've seen a difference. Is it psychological? I feel less Fatigue, I don't know, I'm doing a bunch of things. But one thing is sure, I don't need more signals. Most people need to reduce their exposure, I think and would be better off long term if they reduce their exposure as much as they can manage to or afford to.

You have a ton of things in this book like the effect of cell phones on weight and actual research that could make you fat or reduce the capacity of fat cells to actually lice or to burn fatty acids. You talk about the link between WI fi, very strong link between WI fi and cortisol. I see a lot of cortisol, very high cortisol in people's bloods these days. Days. You talk about blood brain barrier leakage, you talk about DNA damage. You have one page that pretty much shows the debate is completely over about this stuff causing cancer. And then you even get into some stuff we even have a chance to get into today like why you should probably not have any dimmer lights in your whole home. Make sure wires are tucked like three feet away from your feet. Don't use your cell phone in a moving vehicle. Like tethering and being in a moving vehicle. Some especially bad idea. I mean I know a lot of this stuff sounds alarmist, but frankly for me, if I'm going to feel like crap all day, then I don't care if I have a convenient day because I'm able to whatever make a few phone calls in the car. I mean this, this stuff's really important. This book, honestly like Non tinfoil guide to EMFs. Probably the best book I've ever read on this stuff. So if you're listening, you need to get this book because we only scratched the surface. The book only took me 2 hours to read like I did. I flew through it because it's pretty easy to lay out but so it's not gonna, it's not gonna knock your socks off. If you're concerned about the volume of reading.

It's.

It's pretty easy to get through. So I'll link to the book if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Tinfoil that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com tinfoil and Nicholas.

Thanks for writing this book first of all and for coming out and sharing all this stuff with us. And thank you also for inspiring me to probably go out and buy new underwear today.

Well, I can't wait to see what you come up with. I want to do an experiment just wearing EMF blocking underwear for a couple of weeks and seeing if I can increase libido or testosterone or different factors like that. I would be very interested because, because what you're doing essentially is that you're well, your let's say family joules. I don't think this one will have a beep, will it?

You can say joules. That's fine.

Joules. Anyway your joules won't be exposed to any signal essentially will be back to mother nature while the rest of your body is getting exposed. So I would be looking forward to your results.

Awesome. Cool, man. Well, I'll link to all this stuff again. You guys go to BenGreenfulFitness.com.

Tinfoil check it out. And Nicholas, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you all for listening in. Until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week.

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Sam.