This is a recorded conversation between Luke Story and Ben Greenfield (published Dec 24, 2021) that focuses on two practical topics: exogenous ketones and specialty coffee. Ben summarizes evidence and use-cases for exogenous ketones (including athletic performance, jet-lag/inflammation reduction, and rapid elevation of blood ketone levels with esters). He also discusses monitoring methods (breath acetone approximating blood beta-hydroxybutyrate) and safety thresholds. The second half covers Kion coffee: flavor/cupping quality, single-origin organic sourcing (Guatemala/Costa Rica batch), antioxidant testing (ranked against 43 brands), low mold/mycotoxin profile, nitrogen-flushed packaging, and recommendations for fresh grinding and proper water for brewing.
Questions this video answers
December 24, 2021.
About 10–11 millimolar.
Around 7–8 millimolar (from typical baseline ~1–3 mmol).
It approximates blood levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate by measuring breath acetone.
About 3%.
Chapters
The very last thing I wanted to get your take on, which I've, I've kind of cycled in and out of, and this brand I just randomly picked up at Erewhon, because I was like.
Oh, you know what?
I want some of exogenous ketones. What your, what's your current take on the ketones that you can eat?
They're efficacious. I mean, like, if you want to shift yourself into what you could arguably say is an unnaturally high state of ketosis that you would, from an ancestral standpoint, had achieved via fasting and carbohydrate mitigation, but you want to stack extra ketones on top of that for extra fuel for the liver or the diaphragm or the brain or the heart. If you are an athlete and you want rocket fuel, you take a good carbohydrate gel like glucose and maltodextrin or fructose and maltodextrin, and then you take ketones at the same time. And you can have elevated levels of blood glucose and ketones. So you've got the best of both worlds floating through your system at the same time. It's useful for that. Ketone esters particularly are very good at modulating the NF kappa B pathway, which can shut down inflammation, particularly related to something. I know you're keen on jet lag or airline travel, so if you take some ketone esters before you fly or after you fly, or both, not only is it a great appetite suppressor and a calorie restriction memetic, but it also shuts down a lot of the inflammation associated with jet lag. So, you know, Dom Agostino has done a ton of research on ketones for neural inflammation, for tbi, for concussion. I've used them in freediving and spearfishing to increase breath hold time, which they work. Oh, no kidding. So. So again, it's a cool tool in the toolbox.
I don't think they taste all that great, but the safety and efficacy profile is pretty good. You would have to take a lot to shift yourself into ketoacidosis. Like you'd have to be 10, 11 millimolar of ketones. However, if you're taking a regular dosage of it and you're one of those people who measures ketones with a blood or breath based ketone monitor. And Normally you're at 1 or 2, or maybe on a good day, 3, you take that stuff and you're like instantly at 7 to 8 millimolar. So I mean, it shifts you into ketosis extremely fast.
I only have one way to test, and it's the breath. Little breath acetone. The little.
Is it the keto K E. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The keto, the level. All those are approximating blood levels of beta hydroxybutyrate by measuring breath acetone. It's somewhat accurate. You know, it's not as accurate as a blood measurement, but far more convenient. And it works for most people to give you a decent idea.
It's just funny because I test and I'm like, I haven't eaten any carbs in like a day. And I still never get above a three, though, which is like light ketosis. I'm like, what the hell? And I think that's what prompted me. I was like, you know, I'm gonna take some goddamn ketones. What I notice when I take the exogenous ketones is I have an incredible amount of energy. Yeah, it's crazy and like mental energy too. It's really good for focus and stuff. So that's where I'm at with it. Okay. Last thing in the kitchen is, you know, I've gone back and forth with a few different coffees. I don't have it in the bag. I have it in here. But then I saw that you were doing coffee and I thought, those are your beans.
That smells like kion.
And so, yeah, kion coffee. And I was like, well, if Ben's doing it, it's gonna. He's gonna be doing it.
Right?
And then I read kind of the stats on the. On the kion site, and it's not only tested for mold, but there's like higher antioxidant levels and all this next level shit. So give me like the spiel on.
Yeah.
Why your coffee is awesome. Because it's what I'm on now and I have it on my side.
It just cups really good. I mean, we had it cupped by some different professional cuppers and, like, it ranks very high for its cupping score, meaning the flavor profile is just really good for espresso, for French press, for, you know, regular drip coffee. Pour over whatever. The beans are hand selected for symmetry. So there's not a lot of chipped beans, meaning that the roasting is very even and that contributes to that flavor profile being so good. Oh, trippy. It's all single origin. Only 3% of the coffees in the world are organic. And this is organic. I think the batch right now is Guatemala and Costa Rica for the beans. And then we package it using like a nitrogen flushing type of packaging. So it's extremely fresh. There's always a roast date on it.
Don't keep it in your freezer like a lot of people do. Keep it room temp as soon as you get the bag. These type of containers you have where you push down and you get all the air out of it. I like the one coffee Gator has a good container I use for that just sucks all the air out of the coffee. And yeah, it's organic. Very symmetrical bean. We tested it against 43 other brands of coffee and it ranked the highest in terms of antioxidants and had, I think there was one other coffee that had a slightly higher score on antioxidants. And then the mold and mycotoxin profile is basically non existent, which for me is the biggest thing. I don't want mold or mycotoxins in my coffee. And so there are a lot of coffee companies that are organic or have high antioxidant or cup really well, or have low mold and mycotoxins or are from farms where it's sustainably sourced and ethically grown. But kion ticks all of those boxes, which I don't think many other coffees do.
I'm stoked. I love it. Last thing on the coffee is, I think I heard you talking about how the oils in the coffee get oxidized if you grind it and let it sit, sit there. So that you always recommend grinding the coffee, which is what I do right before you make it and doing it right before you make it. So if you're buying like bags of coffee that are already ground, those oils are oxidized.
Is that true? Exactly. And I mean, it's a, you know, you cut open an apple and eat it five hours later, it's just not as good. It oxidizes, it's. It's browned, it changes the flavor profile. So you want a fresh grind, right? Fresh grind and an appropriate grind. Right. Like coarse grind for French press.
You know, thinner grind for an espresso. So that's important as well.
Right.
I grew up with a father who was a gourmet coffee roaster and had to learn a lot about, you know, the settings on the grind for espresso versus French press. And the water is very important too, aside from the bean. The type of water that you use is one of the most important things for coffee. And if you use structured water, you know, water that has that, you know, extra bit of bonding between the hydrogens and the oxygen and the external vessel within which the water is contained, you get a better flavor profile in the coffee.
