10. How to get a job in Crypto & Web3

Foreign.

Welcome back to Ben and bergs episode 10 where your favorite MBA and the college dropout talk about everything. Web3 startups, investing, crypto, sports life and food Bergs. How are you, dude?

I'm going great, mate. Like, where are you? I haven't heard from you, you're not returning my calls. You ghosted me, mate. You give me one call, I, I call you back, you don't return it. Where are you? What's going on?

It doesn't matter where I am, but I could be in Perth, not answer your calls. But I'm.

That's it. Oh yeah, I'd ghost you anywhere, mate. Lovely.

I'm in, I'm in Singapore, mate. In, in singing. I've been here for three days. Oh dude, the show to get to Singapore. Oh my goodness. So I'll leave Sydney. Okay. So I mean I'm in the Gold coast for like eight days, 10 days, I don't know. I'm in the Gold Coast, I get up 7:30 in the morning, train to Brisbane. I've got to fly to Sydney then to Singapore. Why I'm going via Sydney, I don't know. Anyway, I'm going by Sydney, get a flight to Sydney, no worries, get there international check in a couple hours, wait. Great, no worries. Everything's going smooth, being on the plane. Cool. Eight hour flight, got everything sorted, no worries. Yep. We've got a day to spare. So get into Singapore. I've got to come here for a conference. I've spoken at a crypto conference here.

On Tuesday, which is very rare for you because you fly in at the last minute. So you know, you planned ahead, you've got your extra day.

I have a day ahead. I'm going to see like, you know, we'll check things out, we'll see what's going. I had, I had meetings and stuff. So I was right, we'll figure it out. I pass out like I'm asleep on the plane now where I was. Great. Two hours in the flight, captain comes over, right, you know, this is your captain speaking. We, as you've probably noticed, we've turned the plane around. I was like, right, why have we turned the plane around? We've got a customer on board that has got a very serious medical emergency and we need to do an emergency landing.

Gee.

And I was like, oh fuck, here we go. Is he all right? Like what's going on? Where we going? So we do an emergency landing back in Sydney because in the middle of, middle of nowhere, basically middle of Alice Springs or some shit. So we did two hours there, two hours back, did a four hour return trip just to land back into Sydney. We land, they don't know what's going on. It's like 10 o' clock on a Sunday night now. They don't know what we're doing, where we're going. We land. Ambo's come on. This guy's carked it. Like they're carrying him out. Like he's not dead, but he's like he's no good. He was like legs dragging on the ground, no good. We sit on the tarmac for 45 minutes after we land and we don't know what's going on. We don't know. I'm flying British Airways so that everyone on the plane's down to London, so they're like, they're even more screwed. I'm trying to just get to Singapore. Yeah, yeah. And captain comes over 45 minutes later. So thanks everyone for your patience. Just letting you know that we've actually now ticked over the time that it won't allow us to fly because we can't do another eight hour shift. So the flight's now canceled and we'll be handing out immigration forms for you to now re immigrate back into Australia. So we haven't fucking gone anywhere. We've gone up in the air, done a few laps, now we're back on the ground. So go labor laws. So now we re immigrate. There's 300 people re immigrating at 11 o' clock at night that they hadn't planned for that. Takes an hour, have to get our bags, then we go upstairs. There's literally a hundred and probably 80, 190 people lining up to one desk at the British Air Airways airline at 11:30 at night on a Sunday trying to figure out where we're staying in the hotel. I'm at the back of the line because I'm a. I had these pull up banners. I got the oversized baggage show. Finally get in, get to the front of the light. Oh, sorry. So we've run out of hotels. We need to find out where we. Oh no, find the hotel.

So you've been going all day. You'll be doing your hardcore CEO. You're making your calls at the airport. You get on the plane. I'm pretty sure I got a couple of messages from you while you're on the plane and then they've turned it around. You've got to re immigrate. Pick up all your crap, your big banners. It's now 11:30, you're cooked. And they got nowhere for you to stay.

Those way to stay. So right there, they find somewhere to say. Then they don't have buses. There's literally 180 people outside. Freezing cold city. There's no buses. The guys, like, I get it, this doesn't happen often. Like, you know, I get it. But, like, holy shit, this is just fucked. Like, can I just get an Uber? And I'm just gonna find somewhere else to stay. Like, I want to sleep. And then again the next day. And then they got delayed again. Then we got on the plane finally, as we're lining up, and then they came over and said, oh, sorry, it's delayed again. We forgot catering. There's no food on the plane. And everyone. The whole gate 25 at International Airport was like.

It's like a communal groan. Like, what else could go wrong?

There was like, people were throwing bags. It was passports thrown. There's like chips being thrown. Everyone's like, this is.

It sounds overly English. It's hilarious.

Anyway, finally got to Singapore. Got in like 1am that night at 1am, had to speak the next day. Investor conference. All went well. And then, yeah, just been traveling around, having some food, lots of meetings. Went to a wework. Singapore's great, man. I could live here. I reckon, like, it's.

It's same. If I had to pick one place that wasn't Australia to live, it'd either be Singapore, New Zealand. And I'll probably go Singapore because it got better food and just more's on and you can get to other places. Like, it is just. It is amazing. The people are great. A Pete. Majority of people speak English, which is fantastic. It's super clean, it's safe. And like, the food, the food and anything you want, you can get there, son. It is just amazing. Like, mate, we got. We got a big. When are we doing a work trip to Singapore, mate, I want to comptrate.

Just eat these. The satay skewers, mate. There's. There's nothing down there.

Oh, mate. So good that I could just look like if I could make enough, like a living just doing satay skewers over coals and just having a cold beer and just serving people, mate, that'd be a happy life for me, breathing that in all day long. Sure it's not good for you, but, man, it smells amazing. How did you feel when you walked out? So you're in Singapore, you walk and it's hot, it's sweaty and you go to, like, the skewer place and you smell that smell the first time you do.

How'd you feel? So I, I met, I met someone here that took me around and we, you know, she took me around like the, some of the big like museums and the big like Marina Bay Skywalker was called. And then we went to this, this like food mall thing or food court thing and it was packed. There wasn't a seat available. And I walk outside and there's this guy like frying up the satay skewers on the barbecue. He's got the fan. There's like music. This is everyone's vibe and eating out food.

So good.

We, we spent 50 bucks. We still had money left. I think we spent like maybe 35. And we just got so much food. We got noodles, satay skewers. We got like the fried prawns on a stick.

Yeah, the big ones. Oh man.

Yeah, Beef noodles, chicken rice. I had a big off tiger beer. Like a proper skewy.

Bigger than your head.

Bit of my head. It was so sick, man. I was like, I could do this all the time.

Oh mate, it. It is incredible over there. Like knock off after work, go for a feedback. You hardly cook over there. You're always out at hawker places. Mate, it's hawker food is like my favorite food ever. And. Oh mate, you got to try two more things you gotta try. When do you find out?

Tonight.

Oh, mate. Okay. Chili crab if you can get it.

Chili crab. I had chili crab.

All right. Awesome.

So good. Loved it.

Have you had Bakute yet? That's from Songfa.

Oh no. Is that the thing that smells weird?

No, it doesn't. It's like pork soup. It smells amazing.

Oh, bucket. No. What's that? Like that fruit that they have here that's kind of.

Oh, durian.

That's it.

That smells disgusting. Like you're not allowed to take it on the train or anything. Although it tastes delicious. Like get a durian milkshake before you go. So songfar is like 400 meters from your hotel if you don't manage to get there for lunch or something. There's one at the airport.

Okay, okay, okay.

You have to do it. There's the one number one thing.

Okay.

All right. So amazing. I just want to go to Singapore now. I'm going to talk to me. So this episode is about how to get a job in Web three. But before we do that, I'm going to tell you my story from the weekend about how I got stitched up. You got a stitch up story? I've got one as well. And this Just did me in, mate. So go to my mum's place, right? You know, nice old lady, sit down, have a cup of tea, play some cards. She thrashes me, feeds me up, all that kind of stuff and she's like, oh, Aaron, you know, I'm a Mandarin tree. I've got a couple of mandarins near the top. Can you just, you know, take them off? I don't want, you know, or, you know, rats or whatever to come and get him. Like, yeah, cool, no worries. Go outside, take off one Mandarin, take off the next one. I'm like, what the. And I literally look at my finger and there's this thorn that's about 2 inches big and it's literally, like gone through my finger. And I'm just like. I'm literally like screaming at the other end.

Yeah, like.

Like went through, right? No, and then I look at this tree and it's just covered in heaps and heaps of spikes and I'm just like, what the fuck? So I tell my mum about it, she's like, oh, don't worry about it, you'd be fine. And then, like, I go back and I get another one and it literally just pokes my finger again. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, I don't want to do this. I'm just getting so mad at her. And she's like, oh, don't worry, it'll give you something to do. And then she walks inside, doesn't offer me gloves, doesn't do anything, just goes, yeah, you'll be right. So anyway, I'm being, like, real delicate, managed to get around. I get like, you know, four or five of them, there's two left at the top. And I'm like, look, I'm calling it. That's all there is to it. I can't get those other two. They're right in the middle of the tree. I put my arm in, they'll have scratches all the way up. It's just ridiculous. So, yeah, no worries. So she puts it in a bag and then she opens one and she's like, oh, they taste like lemon. Because apparently what happened to this tree was it was cut back, like, really small. And when that happens, it turns into. I think it's called a privet, where basically it's like, all right, game on. You're trying to kill me, I'm going to kill you. So it grows spikes and it grows, like, weird fruit. So anyway, I grabbed the bag and I start to bring it inside. She's like, what are you doing And I'm like, well, here are your mandarins. Like, I've been real careful with them, taking them off the tree. You know, you can eat them that kind of. She's like, oh, I don't want them there for the bin. And I was like, what the fuck? I'm like, you seriously stitched me up. I've got cuts all up my arms and through my hands. I could have just got big secretaries and gone like that. So I was just, I was so mad and she was just laughing at me. Biggest stitch up. So anyway, I get these big shears and I go and I cut the last two off. And she's like, oh, while you're there, just cut part of the tree. So, like cutting this massive tree off, I got thongs on, I step on the thing, a spike goes through my thong and just misses my big toe. This is just ridiculous, mate. It was like. And I just walked out of there and I was just like, I'm convinced that my entire life is just one big stitch up, mate. Like, oh, unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Your mum's. Your mum sent you into war in the.

Oh, mate, man, she's an Indian mum. She just loves to dish out the pain, mate. Like, she's just laughing at me. She's like, I'm old, I'm sick, I don't care. You can deal with that. You're my son. You have to do it's responsibility. Unbelievable. Unbelievable, mate. Ben, there's a stitch up Stories. Let's jump into Web3, how to get a job in Web3. So let's kick off. Ben, what is Web3?

So the best way to think about Web3 is a transition from Web2. So Web2, think about Facebook, think about MSN, think about any sort of platform, you know, Snapchat, Instagram, any platform where you are the user and that centralized, I guess platform is the owner of the data. They own the data, they get the revenue, they own everything. You are the user of that data. Web 3 is a transition from web 2 where you are the owner. There's no centralized personal or authority. You as the user, you. You get to own the data with everyone else. You get the benefits, you get the rewards, you get to distribute the things that you want. So web three is the. Basically probably started from 2020. It's the metaverse, it's new games, it's decentralization, it's crypto, it's blockchain, it's the ability to interact peer to peer in any platform without the need of a central authority. So that's where we are. Bergs. Web1 was probably like typewriter, like back.

In the day it was the old websites where it's like the white and black websites where it's got like a little search and text box, I guess, like super old school. That's it. To Web three. Oh, fantastic, man, mate, you absolutely nailed that. I'm impressed. And why would anyone want to work in Web3? Why do you work in Web3?

Because you're insane. That's why.

Web3 is the future. It's like, do you want to work for Blockbuster or do you want to work for Netflix? Like, it's the same thing. It's like a transformation of digital.

Ecosystems. It's like, you know, it, I guess the money, the amount of venture capital, the money, the talent, the people that are coming into this space are building things for the next 50 years. People want to own their data, people want to use and interact platforms that are better for humanity because they're faster, they're cheaper, they're better, they're more exciting. Think about like VR, think about like AI, like these sort of things are better in everyday life. And I think Web3 is the next transition or this next technological revolution of like the biggest companies doing amazing things, building products that don't exist yet. That's what's so exciting. You're not building some shitty, you know, insurance company. Sorry, for anyone that's in insurance out there. You're not building stuff that's already built, you're building new stuff, cool stuff, things that have never been built before. You're the cutting edge. That's what's so exciting about web3.

Oh, I love it as well. And for me, I work in Web3 because it's so exciting. There's so much innovation happening in this space and I love innovation. I love digital innovation. The market, like the market is just exploding and it's tipped for exponential growth, which is just going to be huge. And if you think about it, if you're building a company, you're literally just riding that wave, you know, that market, you can't really decide where the market goes, but you can choose where your surfboard goes. And really this space is so collaborative. We're shaping the future and it's just permissionless. Like you can just jump in and have a go. And I think for me especially like where I used to work at the hospital and working in, in government and interfacing with universities, those kind of things, a lot of the time everything was permissioned. You had to ask, you know, man, different executives, different team leaders. You had to get different processes done, different companies, all this kind of stuff, just to see if you could actually do the thing. And now I'm in Web three. It's literally like, hey, team, we're going to build this. We send it out to the market and the market decides if it's good or not. Whereas the other way would spend six to eight months deciding what we're going to do. Not even having a market test or testing with our customers, knowing if it's the thing that they want. But they wanted to. You know, they're worried about risk and all this kind of stuff instead of just doing a very small prototype in a contained area. And really the thing for me was then I was choosing unhappiness over uncertainty. I was in a job that was relatively secure. It was at a hospital. I could work there the rest of my life. I was probably never going to be fired. But at the same time, I was very unhappy because I wasn't able to move fast. It was really slow. We didn't have enough staff. They didn't understand the things I was trying to do. I was pushing forward at a pace where they couldn't keep up. Now I'm trying to keep up with everyone else in Web3 because they're going absolutely gangbusters. It is unbelievable. Like, you go to sleep and you wake up and the world has changed. And I'm glad I took the other side of that trade. And now I'm choosing uncertainty over unhappiness. I'm just happy as shit. It's like the happiest I've ever been. And to be honest, the uncertainty is not there because I have way more control here than I did in my previous job.

It's just uncertainty over unhappiness.

Yeah, it's the Tim Ferriss thing. This is the thing. And if you look at anyone like, people will, 99% of the time, 99% of the time will choose unhappiness over uncertainty because they don't want to jump into that pit and be like, oh, I'm not sure how this is going to work out. They're like, oh, just take this thing where it's safe and secure. I'm not really happy, but at least it's predictable and I'll choose that instead.

I hate that. I. We're gonna name the person.

Yeah, I'm not gonna name the person, but, like, I just remember, like, I was really pushing for this person to be, like, know, go try something new. Like, I've heard You complain about this for so long like it was a 9 to 5 job and they didn't like it, they hated it. But it was, it was income, it was stable. It's good for the Resume, good for LinkedIn. I was like that. Like, you are unhappy as.

Yeah.

See it like, go do something fun that. Go travel, go do something. Go live in Mexico for a thousand dollars a month. Like, all right. Like just the, you know, and I get it. Like, you know, and this person didn't have, you know, a mortgage or kids. Like, I get. There's different points of life where, okay, it's gonna be harder to just like, go and do something like in your situation, but you took the leap of faith and, you know, you've got you, you know, you've got a, you know, a life, got a wife, you got a kid, you know.

Yeah.

In a house.

That plays into it. Yeah, because it's like, you know, do I go into a startup that could blow up in three months and then where am I going to be? But the reality is there was no risk at all because I've done a job for, you know, years and years now I've got a skill in another area and I'm an executive in that area actually makes me more employable than less employable.

Do you want to talk about how you got to collective shift? Do you want to talk about that or.

Yeah, let's get amongst it.

So, so Bergs and I, we've known each other panel now, like, oh, since 2017, mate.

Yeah, yeah, five years.

Jesus. And so Bergs initially did some consulting for us and, you know, we worked together on a number of different projects. And I think what Bergs did really well was it wasn't like, I'm not working in Web3 at all and now I'm doing everything in Web3. It was like this sort of like, it was a timeline of doing a bit of both. So you were able to like, offer your services in early days, like, we didn't have a lot of money, so you were like, you know, doing things for very cheap, offering different things. I remember a call we had when I first met you, but you're like, hey, this is what I do. How can I help you? Like, that was it. It was, I just want to help. This is the things I'm good at. Like, what are you struggling with? Like, let me help. That was the first, like, offer, you know, that was just where it all started. And then from there it was like a gradual process of like, you just adding value, doing different things, helping out. You know, you've been my mentor for a long time. You're helping a lot of different strategy, product stuff. It was like, it was a five year process, but I think that's how I got started in crypto. It was like I did some projects and add some value and it just sort of like grows from there. And I think that's what works so well now. Five years on, this opportunity opened up was like, literally I'd been working with those for so long, I was like, I need a burks, I need a product strategist, I need a leader, I need an exec. I need like a guy that understands finance, a guy that understands risk and mba. Like, that's the opposite of me. I'm like, let's go. Hell for leather. I don't know anything about this sort of stuff. So I needed burks to balance that off. And I think that was a process of working with you for so long that that's how it just made so much sense. Like I interviewed other candidates, but it was like you were miles ahead anyone else that I, you know, that was it sort of interviewed.

So yeah, that's. And how it worked for me was I joined the group and then joined, started getting involved, posted a bit of like analysis was sign up as a moderator. That's just an unpaid kind of role, but it gives you status within the group. Then we had a few chats around, you know, moderation and how things are going, where the company was going, helped out a bit more. And then, yeah, started my own business and just started a side hustle which was consulting while I was working full time. I love crypto, would spend a lot of time in there, might as well get paid for it and help to grow a business. And then I think, you know, that grew and grew and at some points I went kind of part time where I was working for a quarter or something like that and I'd work, you know, when the work was on. Work a bit heavier with you, Ben. And then, yeah, eventually I was like, look, I realized like, you know, although I was like happy in my work, it didn't feed my soul. And it wasn't happy enough. Like I'd done it enough. I needed to make a change and put all those skills I had to work. And I wasn't able to do that at that job, but I was able to do it with you guys. So I think I called you like around Christmas and I was like, look, man, because I was trying to join the business earlier and a lot was going on. There was. There was a restructuring, a few other things. And I called you around Christmas. I'm like, look, man, hook me up with some Web3 people. I want to work in Web3. And this, this is Ben. This is how good he is, right? He's like, oh, look, mate, that's really interesting. Look, give me till after Christmas and we'll have a chat. So he buys himself some time, right? Buys himself some time. I'm like, cool, mate, no worries. Like Chris, after Christmas comes talking January. He's like, so, mate, I've been thinking about it. Would you want to join up with us, mate? And then just starts the conversation from there. And it's so funny, within three minutes we just launched into. He's like, this is where the business is at. I've interviewed these people, we've got product managers from like J.P. morgan, this place, that place, and like, you know, one's greater dev, one's greater product, but none of them have like product, tech, strategy, all this kind of stuff like you do. And that was really interesting because, like, I was like the implicit favorite, the candidate because interviewing these people. But you kind of like that I hit the mark because you were comparing them to me, who was like doing the job previously in a consulting kind of way. And this is what I want to say to people where there is no perfect job for you, but the perfect job is the one that you create for yourself. Start off wherever you can and then within that job, start taking on more responsibility, devolve other responsibilities and make it into the thing that you want. And that's what I was actually doing with Collective Shift, because we played to my strengths. I was a consultant. I could say what I wanted to do, what I didn't want to do, what I wasn't great at. You should give that to someone else. That then formed a role, which is a role I was able to step into.

It's a. It's a really great point. I started something similar when I was working the last crypto company. I started doing it first. My first entry was I was like working out like online operations. I was like, you know, automation of memberships. And then I got into event planning. So I've organize an event.

Roadshow around Australia. Like that's what I started. And then I got into marketing and then the operations and then gradually leadership and strategy and just sort of just goes from there. You naturally find what you're interested in as you spend more time in space. So I think that's a great point. You make your Own role as you get in there.

Absolutely. And let's go through. I've written down a few of the roles of web3jobs and honestly, in web3 you can do anything. Like the top ones are always like software engineers. If you're a software engineer, you know what's up, you can just jump in, you can just start developing, get onto Ethereum, it's got composability, grab someone else's smart contract, make it, do something else, see how it works, add the 3% on top, just absolutely go for it. Just start experimenting.

Of course, like any company, marketing and growth, like this is the thing. There's a lot of technical people that will start Web3 companies and they'll usually have a technical founder and maybe like a sales kind of person or you know, usually they're all technical people are all very nerdy. What they suck at is marketing. There's a trap that people fall into where they think if our product is good enough, everyone will come along and they will use it. That's horseshit. You need amazing marketing. You look at Apple, you look at iPhones, it's the most expensive thing there. It is not the best technology yet. They are smashing the market. It's because they have great marketing, they have a great experience. I've never seen people so happy as when they buy an overpriced phone and walk out of the Apple store and they're smiling from ear to ear and they've just had their guts ripped out. But they love it because it's like a premium brand, a premium product, like marketing and growth. And you've got look, sales and business development. Every business needs that. Here's an interesting one. Token economist. So if you're in economics, you understand all that kind of stuff. You understand game theory. People like this whole thing is run on tokens and they need to understand treasuries. How do you manage it, treasury bleed, all of these kind of things, you know, finance, investments, product designers and product managers. Oh my God, we need a lot more of those. The user interfaces and user experience in crypto is just shit. It is shit, shit, shit. Like every time I pull out my hardware wallet and I try and do something, I have a heart attack. And I've been in this space for over five years. Like, we need you guys come in, please. If you're a crypto company, hire more of these people. You need them, right? Oh man. And like I'll just rattle off a few more visual designers, communicators, content creators, social media managers, member support, community management, there's all these things. If you think you have none of these skills, be a communicator. Like, I have seen some amazing stuff where people just translate some crypto stuff into everyday speak or make a simple newsletter or brilliant ones. I've seen, like, okay, the whole thing about crypto is it's permissionless, right? And we believe in proof of work. Show us what you got. If you see some like Jack guy or stacked girl walking down the street, that's proof of work. You know, they're being to the gym, you know, they're putting the effort, right? This is what we want to see in crypto. So you can jump into any company or any dao or like discord. If you Google like different types of daos, you see the top ones, bankless and a few others jump in there, start helping out. Discords like a fire hose. Some great ones I've seen where people have created jobs is they jump in and they round up all of that kind of stuff into a weekly newsletter and then they send that out and they'll like pay you in tokens. It's amazing. There's bounties you can do. Then I saw someone remix that where they got the newsletter and, and they did an audio version of it. All they did was read out the newsletter and then people consume that content and you start to build your portfolio of things that you're doing in Web three. Have you seen any of this kind of stuff?

Yeah, I have. Like, I sort of think about my entry into Web3 was around really education. Like, I spent six months consuming literally every single piece of content I got my hands on for six months before I actually started to invest. So I think the other thing as well is like really understanding and trying to increase your knowledge during that time as well can really help. And, and also volunteering. Like, the last assistant I had, he called outreach me on LinkedIn and was like, ben, I really want to help you out. This is what I'm interested in. This is my background. Like, let me know how I can help. And it was like, it was a little bit, it was a bit better than that, the outreach. And I get a lot of them, but like this one stood out. I was like, you know what, okay, no worries. Let's, let's catch up for a coffee. Let's see how we can help. You know, be my assistant for like 612 months. And you know, I think that's another way of like just putting yourself out there. Going to events, going to conferences, go to these networking events. There's so many crypto conferences right now, especially in Australia or anywhere really Singapore, but it was one of yesterday America. This cop like these conferences everywhere. Go and network, meet people, offer your services. Just be like, how can I help? Do you need to help with anything? Like can I volunteer? Like what? Like this is what I'm good at. I can do this. Like, let me know if there's any opportunities and just network, collaborate, create some content. It's, it's funny what happens when you start to just like build the network.

And oh, that's it. Yeah. Was it your surface area for luck just increases exponentially.

It's, it's spot on and 100. Yeah, just get in there and do whatever you can. Like generally with jobs like oh, that's beneath me or not what I want to do, but you'll be surprised, surprised how fast things happen in crypto and to put yourself ahead of the pack, I've seen some brilliant stuff. So the way I did that with Ben was obviously I worked with him, right? And you know, he knew what I was capable of. But what I also did was in the time where I wasn't consulting and between then and when I actually joined, joined a DOW called Shiny and I started working with them and you know, we just did permissionless things like I'm an mba, I like a lot of strategy. So I drew out like a variety model for them to show kind of, you know, where valuable, rare, inimitable and organized. Which is basically if you've ever done a SWOT analysis, like strength and weaknesses, this is the next level of that. So I did that for their business and showed them where they could capitalize on the things they weren't actually doing, like what the value in their business was. And I built a flywheel for them as well. And while I was in there I Learned heaps about NFTs and tokenization, everything. So I was actually able to bring that to the interview I had with Ben and, and Aman, our other guy and let them know.

That's a really good point. Burgs like I think being able to take something where you see you can improve with something that you know and bring that to somebody or a team. Like that's cool. Like when you came to me and I don't know, we need a product strategy, we need a strategy of some script and you came to me with like an eight page, like SWOT analysis, competitor analysis, like everything that was wrong, everything was just fucking shit with us. And like this is how you fix it. I was like, oh, Shit, okay, no worries. This guy's like, this is what we need.

Yeah, yeah.

Versus what I said before is like, yeah, I can help with anything. Well, that's a little bit broad. So I think if you can niche down look, it's like if you're a UI new X guy and you see our website or see a website of a, you know, product you might want to work for and you redesign it and you send the CEO a DM on LinkedIn and like, hey, man, I'm a research designer. You know, just in my spare time, I took as, you know, thinking aside, I saw like four areas for improvement. This is what, you know, this is what I came up with. Send him a screenshot of that, like, image. I'd be like, oh, fuck. This guy's like, serious. He's willing to put in the effort. Yeah, knows you shit. I'm organizing a coffee or zoom with you right now. Like, if. If it's legit. And it's like, you know what I mean? You mean?

Well, I mean, this is exactly it. Because what people do is they're like, I've got all this experience, I've got all this stuff. It's great. I. I'll put my CV in and a cover letter or I might do a little bit more. Everyone does that. That's the base level. If you're coming on and I'm hiring you as a product manager, this is what I want from you. Come in and be like, hey, I've looked at your site, I've signed up as a customer, and here are the five things that I would change in the first month and go through them. I would be absolutely frothing. Or even better be like, hey, I've talked to 20 of your customers and this is what they've said about your product. You are proving to me you spent maybe, I don't know, two hours, three hours, and you're proving to me you can already do the job. And I would be having a different conversation. It would not be, tell me about your skills, your experience. It'd be like, right, tell me all about my product. What do I need to fix? When can you start? It's a very different conversation.

So being unique, I think there bergs another one, like, being unique and standing out from the pack. Because remember, like, Tinder, right? You're not just. You're not the only guy on Tinder. You're competing against every other basic dude out there that you know. It's like saying the same. You need to stand out. So, like, yesterday at the event when I was speaking on Tuesday, I had a panel. Crypto panel or I don't know, it was like a finance panel, investing panel. There's five people up there. I was the only guy in a T shirt. Everyone else was wearing a suit. And guess what? Afterwards, I had the most business cards on my table because everyone wanted to come talk to me. Because I was the unique one.

Yeah.

So I think being unique, being a little bit out there, being like not in the pack, doing something extra, going the extra mile, saying something different, being you, yourself, your, you know, your natural self, don't, you know, pretend to be someone else. But being your unique self and just being who you are and giving value is the best way to start 100.

I love that, mate. You need a point of difference. You really do in this space. And because a lot of people want to come in here, but honestly, crypto people are busy, they're no people. And really, just prove to them up front that you're interested, that you can do the job and you'll be miles ahead of everyone else. Other great ones I've seen is one guy in a Dow. He actually was applying for a job and he asked for advice of the group, like, you know, how do I apply to these people? And it was for a. For an NFT position. I forget exactly what it was. He actually wrote his CV as an nft, put it on the blockchain and applied that way. So he's literally applying the technology and he ended up getting the job. Just those. And it took him maybe a couple of hours to do another one. Was this is outside of the crypto space, but the 20 minute VC with Harry. Right. So he always wanted to be. Is a brilliant podcast. He always wanted to be venture capital, you know, investor. He wanted to be a capital allocator. But he was too young. I think he was 16, 17. He didn't have heaps of money. They wouldn't let him do it because he's too young. So what do you do? He created a podcast. So he literally got all the people in, started speaking to them, learning everything, became an authority over the years to when he could actually invest. And now he's got all these people in this network behind him through his podcast, which generates cash, which he can then invest and he gets the best deal flow out of the majority of people. It is unbelievable creating a podcast. Even if you're just learning and you're. You don't know anything about crypto, you can create a podcast and you can have people on and you can learn in public. It is an absolute brilliant way to do it.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah. And the last thing I reckon I'd say on this is there's heaps of job sites out there. Like Jack Bush has one, Pomp has one. There's. If you just go, there's like Remote three, Web three career. A lot of them are remote work, which is fantastic. So you can work globally. Crypto people are really accepting of that. Where 24, seven global people. And what I would say is have a look at those sites, look at those companies and then go to that company's website and I'll give you an example. The big one in Australia is Immutable. They're hiring, right. And they're over in Sydney. Go to their specific website, see what they're hiring for, see if any of those roles that you can apply for, even if you can't, I think they've got general pools and then you can jump into their discord, see what they're about. You can use their product, you can buy some NFTs and you can experience all of that and see where their product is going and how you fit in with the vision of that product. That is a much stronger argument rather than, here's my cv, I'm going to apply now. I've been a product manager for X amount of years. If you can prove that you're interested in the product and you can see where you and your skill set can fulfill the vision that they have, you'll be miles ahead of the pack.

I think that comes back down to as well. Burgs like you personally also believe in the mission, right? Like so, for example, collective shift Bergz, you know, you believe in the mission like you're here, you're an educator, you want to make this space better. Our mission is different to immutable and it's also different to Kraken or Binance. Like yeah, all of these companies do different things and also the companies are at different stages. So two things I think you should think about when, you know, looking at getting into crypto is looking at the product and understanding what they're trying to build. And if you get to the interview stage, even really asking them and seeing what their vision is, what their values are, what they're trying to build, who they're trying to build for. Because I think in web 3 it does attract some potentially bad actors or even bad actors, but people in it for the wrong reasons. And I think that can make work pretty difficult sometimes. You know, if you're not working with a good crew. So understanding the product and what they're trying to do is really important. And then also understanding what stage the company's in. Right. So are they pre revenue? If they are pre revenue, are they venture backed? Who's backed them? How much money do they have? Are they bootstrapped? Are they post product and post revenue? Where are they trying to go? What are they trying to build? Are they cash revenue or they tokenize revenue? Are they paying you in dollars? Are they paying you in tokens? Because I've seen a lot of people as well, especially developers in the early days get paid in tokens. They work for two or three years, the product doesn't work out, the tokens are worthless and they walk away with like, you know, negative, you know, $80,000. So it's important to also understand like the remuneration model as well. That can take a little while, but understanding that as well can be really important because you might believe in the project and if you do, you may need to take a lower pay or lower salary early on, especially in a startup because you're in it for the broader mission and hopefully you get some tokens or some equity to, you know, have a, hopefully a payout down the line. That's what a lot of, you know, startups tend to incentivize through because you'll come together for a mission. But make sure you are being, you know, whether you have cash coming in or shares, it's usually balanced out. So you negotiate with a CEO. Some people might want more cash, some people might want more equity. Usually it's not both, it's usually one or the other. That is, that is more or less so. Yeah, I just think about what's important to you. Where are you at in life? Do you need cash to live? Are you there for the long term? You're still young, you want to build something big.

Absolutely.

Think about as well.

Yeah, a lot of this is kind of value driven as well. Like your values align with it and you come to web3 because you want that feeling of building something, aligning with a mission and changing the future. A lot of those things actually why I worked in health for, for so long, like changing people's lives. And Ben, you nailed it with that. Like you need to think, do I want to play on easy mode or do I want to play on hard mode or somewhere in between? So easy mode for me is if someone has raised a series A massive seed, millions and millions of dollars in, in series A and they're kind of Scaling up. So generally you'll get a decent wage, things will be great, you'll have a big team. The kind of downsides of that is you might not get any equity or be a small amount. The other side is it's hyper growth. So you're going to have to work in a company where growth is just insane. And do you want to scale from 50 to 200 people really fast? Is that the environment you want to be in? Hard mode, I would say is you're starting, you don't have. You got basically bare bones, you're not getting paid and you're building a product and you're kind of seeking funding or you're trying to bootstrap. That's very challenging to do. If you nail it, it becomes easier in time and the easy one actually becomes hard because you're raising more and more money. The targets get higher and higher till you have an exit and you IPO or whatever that looks like. And then I think with us, we're somewhere in the middle. Where we had customers, we had product market fit. We're still kind of finding that with the customers that we acquired there was, you know, there is salary and equity as well, but it's right in the middle. And it's kind of like the sweet spot for me where it's, I can, I can. The harder I work, the more upside I get. And I really like that. So if I, you know, smash the product we're getting customers in, everything's kind of working. I get benefit from that. Whereas in my old job I just got the same old flat salary. And that just was not exciting and I was not incentivized to go the hardest I possibly could. So just. Yeah, my advice is just have a think about where you sit on that spectrum and where you want to be the next two, three, four years and what that company is going to look, look like. And if that's what you want your day to day to be and if the remunerations, rewards and recognition are right for you.

Yeah, really important to think about. The other things I'd be thinking about as well is the other incentives or not incentives, but other things that come along with working. Like in any company. Right. Like what are the other benefits you get a laptop. Most crypto companies are remote that I know of, especially the small ones. Like we're remote work anywhere in the world. You know, Dave, operations money is up on the Gold Coast. The money he's working from up there. Berg's in, you know, wa, I'm in Singapore. Can work wherever I don't need to be in an office. I love that. And also the 247 nature. Like, you know, some people tend to work better at nighttime, some people tend to work better in the mornings. We're really flexible. Some companies aren't. Some are like, no, like you're in the office at 8am or like you're getting sacked. You, you know, you don't get to work from home, you know, use the company laptop. It's, it's. Some of them are strict and I haven't worked in those entities. Like you know, Berg's being more corporate. I assume it's probably a little bit, I mean you sort of ran the show over there so probably not, not too much for you. But in different entities it's completely different. Especially in corporate. Right.

Like it's still, even though I had lots of autonomy and authority, it's still ultra strict because it's a very, you know, all the IT stuff we do, it's, it's very strict. The rules are strict. It's, it's a government kind of backed organization and you know, it's that way for a reason. You're dealing with people's lives, you're in health, you've got health data. It's ultra restrictive. Another, another huge thing about web3 that you just touched on then is geographical arbitrage. So even though you may be getting paid less than you are now, why don't you go live somewhere for like six months? Go live in Mexico where it's cheap or Bali, Argentina if it's still good to live there where you're paying, you know, less than a quarter of the cost of living that you have in Australia or the States. You're getting paid less, but overall you're making more money. If you have a house, rent your house out, you know, if you don't, great, pick up sticks and go. Start living in other places, have other experiences, get amongst it. There's so many people that do this. There's tons of digital nomad websites and heaps of friends you can make along the way. Go and have some life experiences, do it for three months, see if it works out. Take three months off your current job, take your long service leave or take leave without pay. Test it out, see if you like it. If you don't like it, you can come back. It's all good.

I think it's really good idea to lower your expenses to go and try something as risky as like building a Web3 startup or working for one. We can really lower Expenses, move back in a home, reduce, get rid of your, you know, your car, stop paying that monthly bill and lower expenses to reduce the risk on being able to do that. Like when I started in crypto, I still have been home so I could, you know, I didn't have that downside risk of a mortgage, whatever. If I was, you know, moved out, I could have. Have got rid of the rental and go and live overseas, move back in home, whatever it might be to lower that, you know, that risk of ruin, which, yeah, you know, some people is higher than others, some people are lucky and it's not that high.

But even, yeah, even if you've got a startup, like you want to do a startup, if you save up, like, I don't know, six months Runway worth of cash, let's say, if you're able to do that, whatever that means to you, for your living expenses, if you go and live overseas, that becomes two years Runway and you have cheaper developers over there as well. So if you really want to hit this and you really want to have a go, these are some things you need to consider.

Bergs, you've done the transition from.

Unhappiness to uncertainty. What, what is the experience you can share to like others that are contemplating it, considering it, you know, they're in a job they don't really love, they're thinking about getting into crypto. Like, what. What would you tell them?

I'd say just do it. I've known in my heart for a long time this is what I wanted to do and where I need to be. It's just convincing myself and changing the story I had in my head to actually make the leap. And this is the thing. Like, you can, you can test it if it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can drop one day a week at work or you can consult for half a day a week. You can test it and see if you like it. See if that starts to grow and become a real thing. And then once you get an offer, you can then make the leap. And it's like one of the, one of the Ice Cube sayings is like, don't be afraid to leave. We can come back. It's like he's talking about people in the hood where, you know, it's what you used to. It's your life. You become comfortable, get out of your comfort zone, live somewhere else and really experience who you can be. What human can you become? You know, what skills can you put on display? What can you achieve? What can you do when you are untethered and unleashed. You at least need to run that experiment and see what you can be. That is super important. I ran that experiment and it worked out super awesome for me. And it was funny because all my mates are like, oh, about time. Like they all knew it. They knew the way I talk, they knew what I was interested in, they knew it'd be amazing. And even the first couple of months you still have all the thoughts like, I've done the wrong thing. What have I done? This is too hard, this is crazy. I'm waking up to a million messages. I'm dealing with guys in the us. Slack's notion's fucking. This is like everything's. There's too much. But then you, you know, you slowly like start to get rid of like all the thoughts and processes and mental models you had from your old job and your old life to your new one and you start to recreate it. Like now I work from home, I'm like, there's no one in the office, I'm alone, I haven't left the house in five days. This is ridiculous. Okay, I need to restructure my life. I'm going to have non negotiables. I'm going to leave and go for a coffee. Like this day, I'm going to work out at these times, I'm going to stop work here, spend some time with my family, have those non negotiables and just I need to spend a bit more time building my life because before it was just incidental. I'd go to the office, we grab a coffee, we'll go out to lunches, have a drink after work. None of that happens. I just need to plan it now. And now I've got so much more free time. I'm working out a lot more. I'm healthier than I've ever been, I'm happier than I've ever been. It's just really, really worked out. If you are considering this, just get after it. And like I said before was no risk there. Like I could literally like I've been with you guys what, five months? Almost six. If I stop after six months, my CV is going to say, hey, you've done all these amazing things in crypto and I can get a job somewhere else if I want to. Like it is absolutely fine. I'm now more skilled than I was.

Previously, 100% and the skills you had that you were, that you knew when you were already listening, consuming all this startup stuff and you, but you was probably hitting a brick wall in the Corporate job. And I saw my dude, like, I.

Used to tell Ben, I used to tell you some stories. So Ben and I would have like weekly calls where he would have a bunch of stuff he wanted to go through and I'd kind of advise him on how I would tackle it. And I used to tell him some stories about, oh man, I wanted to do something like release a feature or do. Or take a day off or do this or do that. And I was telling him all the hoops I had to jump through. And he's just like that, like some things were such a pun punished that you would just not want to do them because there's such a disincentive, oh my God, I have to do that thing. And it's like 10 hours of compliance to do like 10 minutes of work. And it's just like, it is just so morally defeating where you want to do a thing and you're already thinking of the ways that it won't work. And it's kind of that psychology of the very risk averse, a lot of loss aversion, all those kind of things that was in my previous job. And being around those people 247 really got into my head and I started to become that person and I started to lose my growth mindset and I had to work very hard on it to get it back. Because all of that negativity and experience.

Yeah, experience I had with other people conversations, all that sticks in your head. And how am I going to convince this person? How is this going to happen? How am I going to get these resources? And now it's completely the other way. Where we've got to open market. How do we do things? How do we capture these customers? It's completely different.

The biggest thing for me that I love is the team. Like I and the, and the wins and the losses, you share it and everyone's in it. Like, everyone's wearing their heart on the sleeve. I love sport. I'm a big sports guy, but I'm terrible at sports. So, like, you know, I'm never going to be able to win like a premiership. And I always like, see the guys, like they're rallying around, like sports teams are like, they love it. They're together, they fight, they train, they win, they lose. They're all in together. This is the closest thing that I'll ever be a part of to like winning a premiership or winning a sports game is like a group of like people that you love to work with day in, day out, Wins, losses, the celebrations are great. You learn so much, you're having so much fun. I think that's why Collective Shift is so awesome. That's why we've got such an amazing team. Because I think we have built this co creation of like such a, you know, we talk about culture. Well, the culture for me is like people just enjoying what they do, doing stuff that they love and building cool shit and learning and growing together. And that's what we all do. And that's what I love.

Absolutely. That was a huge reason why I joined because I already knew the entire team and I love those guys. I met up with them in person once we came out. Like the consultants came out to Melbourne and that's a huge part. Like, who do you want to spend your day with? Right? And this is, this is a job. Like if ever I go for a job, I always ask, like, who am I reporting to and who are the team? And I want to meet them before I actually join up. Because if, you know, we don't gel or they're a certain way that doesn't work with the way that I work. It's either up to me to turn all that around and put all that effort in or I could just choose a team that I know I'm going to get along with. It's very hard to do just meeting people, like first kind of things. But especially in crypto, a lot of people are very public, they're in discords, they're doing different chats. You can reach them, you can talk to them at a meet up, you can see kind of what they're really like. And if you, if you get amongst it, like the way Ben and I are on this pot is exactly how we are in the business. We probably swear more in the business than we do on the pod. That's probably the only difference. Right? And that, that is absolutely a huge part of it, man. And yeah, love it. Super happy. Greatest choice I've ever made.

Totally agree. So get in the web three, mate.

Absolutely. Now, now, shall we do me of the week or meal of the week first? Which one would you like.

Do Meme of the week, man.

I said you owe me, you should pay me extra for the prep, mate.

All right, mate, let's jump into Meme of the week. Let me share my screen here. All right. Now, before I. I display this meme, I like this because it made me laugh, it gave me the feels and then made me really sad. It hit the Holy Trinity of memes.

Oh, the Holy Trinity.

So wait for this to load up. This was the meme of the week. So there's alien there, and there's a bro on the other side. And the bro's just like, hey. And the aliens, like, are you not shocked? And he's just like, man, I got a lot going on lately.

He's like, he's got a ciggy. He's wearing a beanie and a hoodie. He's kind of depressed. He's kind of freaked out. And I'm like, oh, mate, that just describes life. And I looked at this and I was like.

Yeah, yeah, That's a roller coaster.

Emotions.

It's so good where you're just like, this world is so crazy. Not only do we have our own stuff going on, we've got wars, we've got covert, we got monkey pox, we've got inflation, We've got all this stuff going on, man. I got a lot going on. I'm just not surprised to see an alien in my backyard.

Oh, so good. I've even backed up with other meme of the week. This is from Jay. Thank you for the feedback, mate. This was awesome. Posted it in our discord. This is Ben, and he's got this row of people at the Web3 conference. There's literally four guys in suits. And then you got Ben, and this guy's gone against all the guys with st. Suits.

Stak Sanger.

Steak Singer.

Stay Sanger. Stak Sanger.

And then against Ben. Chicken sandwich is so good, man.

And this is.

This is.

Honestly, this is the epitome of what we were talking about. Like, these guys look like they work at any job. They look like finance and exchange guys. Ben looks like he works in Web3. He's different. He's young. I want to talk to him. Out of those. Out of those five guys, if I could talk to someone, it would be Ben. It's absolutely awesome. Lesson in there.

Cool, man. That's good. I love that meme Meal of the week.

All right, I'll let you go first, and then I'll do mine, because mine's just better than yours. Oh, no, actually, you're in Singapore. You might beat me this time.

I've been singing, mate. I've been singing.

Let's go, let's go. The singer's food.

So here we are. Oh, this is a huge meal. So I met this friend, went for a. You know, went out for a meal, and I was like, she's from Hong Kong, now lives in Singapore. And I was like, he's $50. I'm gonna stay here. You buy everything. You get for $50. Don't bring a cent back. So she goes for about maybe like 20 minutes. Like it takes a little while. Like there's a lot of people in this place. So this is big food court. You've got so much food. I've got like a video. There's people everywhere. So many food courts and they do these. Each shop is so niche. It's like Fish Super Bowls. And that's all they do. Or prawns or satay chicken.

They specialize.

They're very specialized. So she comes back with. First of all, we've got the plate of satay chicken skewers. Which I've heard is just the bee's knees. So come up on the nice skewer. I went outside. They're on like a barbecue. He's got like a fanning. Fanning like the smoked chicken skewers. Beautiful. Right next to them you've got prawns on a skewer. I love prawns. These were probably the best prawns I've eaten a long time. They skew it up so they're nice and straight. Very easy to break. And you just snap the head off. You sort of peel the skewer back. You break the tail that way. The shell came off so easily. You dip them in a little bit of sauce. Yum, yum, yum. Beautiful. Right then we move to the beef noodles. These noodles were insane fried noodles. They had the veggies. And she gave me a secret. Her secret was when you go to Singapore and you go to these food courts, you go to the longest line. Yes. It's kind of counterproductive. But you go to the longest line. So she waited for like 10 minutes for these noodles. Oh my God. We smashed those noodles. Insane. Got the chicken rice. Pretty sure the chicken was a little bit undercooked because I, you know, had to hit the bathroom afterwards. But it was nice anyway. And then had the tiger. I was. She's from Singapore so I was trying to teach you the word frothy. She's like, what does fluffy mean? I was like, this is. You see the froth and you just turn that F to a F. And.

That is a frothy man.

I had a big tiger. Skewy. To knock it all off. Bergs. This was a 9.5 out of 10. Unbelievable. Absolutely loved it. It was right up there.

What would have to happen to be a 10 out of 10?

That's a great question. I think the chicken being undercooked slightly like, you know, cuz I don't Know if that's just the way they eat the chicken there.

Oh yeah, that looks amazing. And it looked, looked like kind of Hainanese chicken rice. You've got the pak choy vegetables over there. You can see the peanut sauce is just split on top. And even just having like, you know, the, with the skewers, like the rice and the cucumber and. Oh, man, I would fly to Singapore just for this. Unbelievable.

Dude, it was so nice.

I think you may have beat me this week, but look, I want to give it a crack. I'm gonna see how I go. All right.

By the way, one other travel tip is to find a friend in the location you're traveling to. Like Viv, her name is. She tr. Like, she was amazing. She took me around everywhere. Like you get the whole localized experience. You showed me where to go. Like, just like explain the history, the background. Unbelievable. Like, highly recommend it.

Eat hawker food, mate. Seriously. Go, go to Song Far at the end of your street. And the reason I say go like for lunch is because when you get to the airport, you can either have Shake Shack or ramen there. And both of them are amazing.

Did you go to Terminal 4 and look at the Jewel?

No.

Okay, go early to go early to the airport. Like at least half an hour, an hour early. Go and sit by the Jewel, which is like that big waterfall thing, and just meditate.

You love it.

All right. This is my meal of the week. So my family ditched me on Saturday night. They off they went for a sleepover because my sister in law's over. They went over there. So I was like, whatever, you know. So I went out with the boys, got on, had had a, had a feed, had some skewies, mate, just got on it, came back and guess what? There was peace in my house. Man, that was quiet. So I went to bed, had the best sleep of my life, had to sleep until 9 o', clock, woke up and I thought, all right, let's get amongst it. Let's cook up brekkie. So let's just start off with the coffee bean. So during the week I roasted these beans, right? And these beans are called Salawese Blue. They're some random beans from Indonesia, but they're triple saw, so they're high quality. And I roast them during the week and they weren't pouring that great during the week. But mate, it's about day five after I roasted them and you know, like one out of 10 times you just get the perfect pour of coffee. This was the perfect pour, mate. Just went so I've got a naked. I've got a naked filter. And you just saw all of it come through perfectly to the middle. And the crema was just insane. And then, like, even did a little love heart in there for you, Ben. So I took a sip of this and I closed my eyes and I nearly cried. It was like. It was like I was in Bali in the rainforest, like among the humidity, just breathing it in, mate, that is what this tasted like. It was just like mountainous awesomeness. It was. It was brilliant. But then I'm like, all right, I'll cook myself up something. So there was some bacon in the fridge, and I was like, yeah, you know, bacon, scrambled eggs, I could go. But then I saw this, mate. There was some prosciutto in the fridge, so I chucked that in a pan and I fried up the prosciutto. And this was just so crispy. And then I'm like, or I'll have some eggs. I'm like, oh, I'll probably need some, you know, veggies on the side. And wouldn't you know, it just in the bottom of the fridge, there's like half a capsicum. So I cut that up. Salt, pepper, garlic, and then, you know, crack my eggs, cook those up. Scrambled the eggs, Gordon Ramsay style. Put that out, salt, pepper. But then I got some truffle oil and just drizzled it over the top of those eggs, man. So you've got this, yeah, you've got this amazing creaminess from the eggs, the truffle, the umami. Then you've got this really saltiness from the. And the crispiness from the prosciutto. And then you've got the kind of just crunch from the capsicum and the sweetness. Oh, mate, this. This was unbelievable. And I'm gonna give it a 9 out of 10.

Wow.

A 9 out to take it to a 10 out of 10. I should have made the eggs with yolks only, so it's, like, super decadent. And put cream in it as well. And then had cut up garlic chives over the top of it. That would have been a 10 out of 10, mate.

Man, prosciutto. I don't think I've ever had fried prosciutto. I've had prosciutto, like, fresh.

Get amongst it, have it on a pizza, mate, it is unbelievable. Now I'm going to take two bites of the cherry, mate. Another suck of the sauce bottle. So we're doing this on a Thursday because Ben can't get his together. Usually it's a Monday, but, you know, he can't even catch a plane these days. And he goes, oh, we'll do it Wednesday. And I'm like, mate, he sent me on a training course because he reckons I'm not good enough. And I'm like, I can't do it on Wednesday. He's like, look, you need to get good. Just piss off and do a training course now, mate. The lunch at this training course. Have a go at this. This was. Look at this, right? This was only the second course.

What the.

No.

We had more than this. Like. No, seriously. Okay, okay. For morning tea, we had these amazing big quiches that were like. Had this wraparound pastry that were just phenomenal. For lunch, we had, like, a choice of three different entrees and three different mains. What the. So for entree, you could choose prawns or salmon or mushroom soup with, like, porcini, mushroom and cream. I chose a mushroom soup. It was off the hook. I ate that thing before I could take a photo, son. It was like a proper, like, restaurant at the UWA Club. It was unbelievable. And then. Then for mains, you could have. I think it was.

Salmon, a vegetable cauliflower dish. But I had this one. So this was pork, right? And I'm a sucker for a pork chop. And you can see.

Just pay for this.

It was free. All free. All free. Included. Included. Oh. Oh. And even after this. Oh, man. Okay, so let me go through this meal. You got this. This beautiful pork chop that is just cooked perfectly and it's got that big, at least an inch of fat on it. And just look at how that is charred. That burnt the fat, and that just tasted amazing. You just cut into this pork chop and, yeah, like, it was cooked. It was slightly over, but I reckon they brined it or something, so it was still really delicious. And you didn't have to chew too much. And they had this amazing jus over the top that just like. Oh, it was rich. It was amazing. You had the asparagus, which is just cooked and seasoned perfectly. Nice bit of snap in it. You had a roasted tomato with basil and oregano. You had this kind of white, creamy sauce which had spinach in it. Wasn't really a fan of that. It was okay, but you didn't need it. And they did. They did the schmear bend. So you see, like, that orange thing, how you got, like, the. It was a sweet potato schmear on the plate where you get the back of the spoon. Amazing. And then. Dude, then. Wait, wait.

Go on. Go on.

Can I just add. What I get in Melbourne is this shitty like old baguette with like, you know, the fake chicken paste that's like smeared on the baguette.

Yuck.

Wrapped in a bit of Glad Wrap. I don't ever eat their lunch. I go downstairs and buy my lunch. And you're getting seared pork.

Yeah, and, and we have proper like waiters as well where you know, it was like you get like cloth napkins. They put it on your lap, they're like, oh sir, can I help you? And they deliver it one by one with your name. And then we had like a, I don't know if it's like potato gratin or potato bake thing where they, they go to the next level and they shred the potato so it's like, they grate it so it's just like really thin and it was just cooked perfectly. This was amazing. It made my day. Everyone else was like, the meals are usually crappy. This is phenomenal. This was, this was like fine dining stuff. This was like a nine and a half out of ten. Honestly, I, I take a half off because of that silly spinach pasting. I don't know what it was, didn't really like it. But mate, this hit the spot. And then, and then cop this, right? We get afternoon tea. They bring in these honking scones that are already cut in half. And for the cream, they've made their own cream and they've made it with like vanilla bean as well and they've piped it perfectly onto each scone and put like their own jam that they've made in the middle. Man, I've never eaten those so quick. I ate two of those and I was gonna spew and I was thinking of going back for a third. Nice cup of tea on the side. My English breakfast, it was unbelievable.

Did you do any training or you just like at some fancy ass restaurant?

You know what, I think it was like, the venue was great and I think because they said it was cash day, so it's high cognitive load. They're like, look, these guys are going to need to feed up, get the brain cells gone. Let's feed them up. It was unbelievable. Being able to choose your meal from like three entrees and three mains at fine dining is just next level. It is unbelievable, man. Thank you for sending me for training. I will gladly go any day.

I'm coming too. Oh dear. Bur that's been an epic episode. How to get a job in Web3 if you want to learn more about Web3 we have so many amazing resources at CollectiveShift IO. We've got free beginners course, hundreds of resources. It's going to get you from 0 to 1. If you don't know how to start, you don't know where to start or you started but need help. We've got everything for you in simple terms. Simple plain English Head over collectorshift IO if you're wanting some more of our premium stuff, we can see exactly what we're investing into our community daily analysis we're doing on chain analysis. We've got reviewed assets. We've launched a new personal dashboard so you can get personalized insights based on the assets you own. We're building something really cool. Bugs. You can head over there. We've got a discount code in the description below. And if you're loving the podcast, let us know. We're getting memes throwing in. We're getting some great feedback. Like I think we're improving every time. Please send it in. Leave us a review, leave us a comment, let us know what you think. We always want to improve, so absolutely leave a comment.

It just spurs us on, it makes our day, it just makes us happy and it fuels us to just do better. Thanks for listening, spending your time with us. We really appreciate it and we'll catch you guys next week.

See you next week.

See you folks.