103. Berg’s 10 Investing Rules from 20 Years of Investing

I've got diamond hands. That is a gift and a curse. Don't be a slave to wealth. Understand that game and set it up so it's best for you. So, because people think the system is set up for the rich. And you're right. But the thing is, you can learn the system, you can learn the rules and you can understand how to get wealthy. You can either sit there and say, hey, this is not for me, it's not fair, or you can get on the other side and start investing and start accumulating wealth. You've got two options, complain or change.

Welcome back to another episode of the Ben and Bergs Podcast. I'm Ben, your favorite high school dropout and founder of Collective Shift. Alongside me is Bergs, your favorite MBA and CEO COO of Collective Shift, Australia's leading crypto portfolio insights company, providing professional analysis and portfolio strategies for crypto investors. Like you, we are a unique blend of the established and the self made. And we're here to break down crypto business and personal growth. But we're not here just to talk crap. We're giving you the insights that you need to make better investments, build successful businesses and level up your life. And today, Burgs is giving his 10 investing rules from his 20 years of investing. And I've had a bit of a flick through these. Bergs, you've told me you've narrowed this down from at 40 down to 10 and these are some cracking rules. I'm looking forward to this.

Oh, mate. So I've been on leave for two weeks, thought about a hunch, bunch of stuff, did a lot of writing, did a lot of reflecting and I ended up writing these down and yeah, I had about 40 of them, condensed them down to 10. I've been investing for around 20 years and it just really helped me to clarify my thoughts and I thought this would be really valuable for our audience. So, mate, so let's kick off. Jump in whenever you want, ask me questions about it. Look, rule number one, pay yourself first. This is one of the simplest rules. You get this with every book that you read, but you never really understand it until you do it. And I understand it in a different way now, especially after running and operating a business. Like if you're doing the profit first model where you work out how much profit you want and then everything else is based on that. So how much money do I need to make for that to happen? In my case, paying myself first is a minimum of 10% of my income. I'm very lucky. I have surplus Income after my spending. And really this has shown me that habits are way more important than outlier events. I used to think this way every, the majority of people I talk to think this way, that they're waiting for the market to come down, they're going to push all their cash in. But the reality is you just have to get in there over time, do that habit. It's like going to the gym. One big workout will do nothing. Going to the gym three or four times a week for a year will. So this is a super, super important rule. You've actually reiterated this to me quite a few times, Ben.

Yeah man, that consistency, just that, that automation, that, just that, you know, forget that it's even happening. Like, like the gym all of a sudden you've been, you know, every day for four or five weeks and you're really seeing this compounding, you know, growth, but you don't see it day to day but over time it builds up. So yeah, I like that one.

Compounding. Compounding is amazing. And if you want to read a book on this, read Atomic Habits for building up your habits, especially with finances and health and it'll just change your life. And this leads into number two, rule number two, automate your way to glory. Always be buying. So again, simple rules. Time in the market, not timing the market. Compound and build wealth slowly. Everyone wants to get rich quick, including myself. I thought I was smarter than everyone else. I, I thought I could get in and get out or I knew more than someone else. Sometimes that works. But 99% of the time you're going to lose money. Invest very simply. Dollar cost average, that should be the majority of your investing compound over time. And just take that long term view. It's so easy to say, so hard to do in practice it is one of the most difficult things.

And also doubling down during bear markets where you really can accumulate a lot more because the prices are so low. You know, it's easy in theory, hard in practice. So yeah, automating that as well makes it easier.

Exactly. It's not all one way or the other. Like dollar cost average is like your base, like going to the gym every time and then you can have those things that really kind of pump you up, like you learn a new skill or you get a personal trainer or you see an opportunity and that's when you go in. So you do both modes. Rule number three, mate, invest simply. I've been caught out so many times. I'm a person that is seduced by complexity in investing in work, in just Normal life. And for me the simple rule is if I don't understand it or is too time consuming, do not invest. And again, I caught, got caught out with NFTs where it was too time consuming. But everyone, I was swept up in it. We were in discords, we were learning so much and I was investing in NFTs and then I thought, hang on a minute, am I going to be able to stay across all of this? But for some reason, for that like six to 12 months, everyone just seemed to quit their jobs and just be in discourse, right? And that's what we did. And it seemed like reality, but it wasn't. Investing should be boring. As if you're, if I'm excited about an idea, it is probably a bad idea. I need to take a long term view, zoom out and relax and hey, where's the fire with investing? It's boring. It takes time. It compounds. You do your little spreadsheet, you put your money in and you get, you get you between 5 to 8% per year plus you get some spicy stuff on the side. You go year after year and you start to look at your money compounding. And if it's not boring, then I shouldn't be doing it.

I like that. You know, investing is boring. If you're excited, it's probably a bad idea. There's been so many opportunities that come across my desk and you know, I've gotten really excited about it. Everyone's pumped up, you know, but I, I like and in the past I would have just barreled into it, fomo, invested. Now I sit on it for, you know, for a few weeks, then look back and I look back at some of those things that have come across my desk that I was pumped about and go now, like, what a, you know, that would have been a dreadful decision.

And this is in life and in business, your boss will come back, they're pumped up about something that, oh my God, we have to do this, we have to change the business. But what you don't do determines what you can do. It is much better to sit on it, wait a week, two weeks, three weeks, until the emotion, the excitement dies down and then think, is it a good decision? But I know so many people that will buy crypto or speculative mining stocks, whatever it may be, and they get wrecked because they're absolutely excited. Then they hold on. They want to prove that they were right. They don't want to admit to themselves that it was emotion and it was a loss and a mistake and to cut it and move on. And they hold it right down to.

The ground because why do you get excited? You get excited because you think you're going to make money fast. And if you listen to anyone that's made money, most people anyway, 90% of people that have actually made money through investing, it's never fast unless you get really lucky. It's never fast.

That's exactly it. And it combines with the other rules about being in the market, time in the market, not timing. Right. Rule number four, have an emergency fund. So for me this is 12 months of living expenses. I'm very risk averse in some areas, particularly around basic needs and family safety. So for me that is 12 months. Other people be three months or six months. The reason you want an emergency fund is you have a buffer of freedom. If you lost your job today or you wanted to take some time off or you needed to figure things out, you have that six months or 12 months of cash sitting there to pay for your living expenses. That's an incredible amount of freedom. And this ties in with, always have cash on the sidelines. So if you, even if you have that buffer, you can still utilize some of that. When there is an opportunity in the market and you see it, you have that cash available. This is the best negotiation tactic as well. Having a stack of cash you like. If you get fired from your job, you're, this is panic stations. I need to get a job, I need income, I need to pay for the things, my bills, my house, my food. If you don't have that, you are in such a strong negotiating position where you've got 12 months to figure it out. It is absolutely incredible. And to sum this rule up, know where your well is before you get thirsty. So if you are thirsty and you're in the middle of the desert and you do not know where the water is, you are screwed. If you're in the desert and you know there's a well over there which is your cash reserves, you are fine, you're going to make it.

Yeah, a lot of people got caught out on this during, in covert. Right. Covert hit overnight. All of a sudden people didn't have their emergency funds, people lost their jobs and all of a sudden, you know, people in dire straits.

You know, it's, it's, it's, it's one that we probably speak about a lot. But you know, maybe I don't know how common it is for people to have an emergency fund.

That's right. And it's, I would say if you have a house, it should be more common now, because you can offset your mortgage and the rate of return, well, at least in Australia, is around 6% off. Before tax? No, after tax, because using post tax dollars, so it's actually higher than that. So it's actually a good thing to have if you want that level of security. Some people are just take on all the risks they want and they're cool with it, or they've diversified in other ways, like they're a consultant, they've worked in so many consultancies and they'll be absolutely fine to get another job the next day. And to hedge against that, they have income protection, which is fantastic. So for me, it's having that 12 months cash.

It's funny, I. I used to have an emergency fund. Now my emergency fund's my crypto because I just was. Got bored of looking at cash in my emergency and I've just got, you know, my crypto. So I've got that. I've got access to, you know, liquid assets. Yes, it's way more volatile in cash. But I also don't have a mortgage, I don't have debt I need to pay off, you know, but I've got that. That they're ready to. To tap into if I need.

Yeah. And for your station in life as well, you have redundancies, like, you could. Your life would be a lot more cheap. You don't have a lot of debt. You could live with a friend, you could go back home, you can live with your family. You've got a lot built in there for safety.

All right, rule number five, it's never all or nothing. Diversify and stay in the game. So this ties into a couple of the rules above, but for some reason we're always like, I need to put my whole stack in, I need to take my whole stack out and take profits, or I need to put it all in crypto or all in this other thing. You don't need to do that. Yes, you can build a lot of wealth by doing that, and you build wealth quickly through concentration. But you also take on so many risks and, and the risk of ruin. If there is a risk of ruin, you should not take it. When it comes to investing, you want to stay in the game. That is the goal. Just like life, if there's a risk of death and it's considerable, do not do it because you will die. You want to stay alive. So diversify and stay in the game. And I've been quite good at diversification. I started off with shares, then went into property, then went into crypto. And then a few other things here and there. So diversify to stay in the game because markets don't always move in sync and you want to have like, you don't want everything to go down at the same time. And that's, that's around wealth protection as well, right? Rule number six, this one I love. Know which game you are playing, understand the system and what has to happen for you to win. So when you hear of a guy going, oh, the latest one is.

People starting off projects and getting rich where it's like SaaS products, you see it all over Twitter. Here's my monthly recurring revenue. They're all showing it off. They didn't tell you about the 10 years it took to get there or they don't show you the expense side or anything else. And people think I'm going to get in that game. But they don't understand how much time it takes, how much you're not getting any revenue for like, you know, you. All the things that are going on in the background and in the investing game. You see the guy who's, I'm a trader, I've come in, I've made this, I can teach you this system. I learned the hard way. I'm not a trader. I tried it, right? Yeah, I made a little bit of money, but the amount of time I had to sit in front of the computer, I had to turn my emotions off. I was always thinking on it about it. I went on a holiday to Japan. I had a trade on, it was a long term trade. It was like it would have gone for about probably a month or something like that. And I just had to cut the trade, cop the loss and enjoy my holiday. Like I am not that, you know, and when people like I made this profit, I sold this, I sold that, know which game they're playing, the things that they're actually doing and be like, hey, is that the game for me? And through that I've learned I've got diamond hands. That is a gift and a curse. I will buy something and I will hold that till it dies and it's like 0% and then I'll get rid of it for a loss, right? I'll send it to a burn address. That is a gift and a curse. And I have to realize that I have this capacity to say, right, when I invest in something, I put it over there, I'm doing it for the long term and that money is spent. I don't care what happens with it because I'll only need it in 20 years. I don't need it now, so I need to realize that about myself and I don't. I've also realized I don't want to be a slave to wealth. So once you have a few investments, you've got a few structures, you kind of have to manage it. And that sucks. Like looking at like your NFT discord, your crypto, what are your shares doing? Am I structured? Is it in a trust? What's the tax going to be? What are the implications? All that is nonsense. And it gets very complicated. It takes a lot of your life. Don't be a slave to wealth. Understand that game and set it up so it's best for you. So for me, that is a high level of automation. Everything set up with my accountants and everything else. It's very easy at the end of year and I can just live my life and practice my craft. And in terms of understanding the system and what has to happen for you to win, I did a housing episode probably about 20 episodes ago. Go and listen to that. And it explains how our economic system works through the majority of the Western world, but particularly in Australia, how things are tied to housing, how superannuation works, how pensions work and where government will prop up businesses. And I invest to take advantage of the system. And it's very important because people think the system is set up for the rich. And you're right. But the thing is, you can learn the system, you can learn the rules and you can understand how to get wealthy. And I reckon everyone should do that in some capacity because you can either sit there and say, hey, this is not for me, it's not fair, or you can get on the other side and start investing and start accumulating wealth.

You can sit there and complain, look, let's go on, yeah, and think about everyone, or think about the world being against you and creating all the excuses and reasons why you are winning, or you can just get out and just go join the game.

You got two options, complain or change. And that's like me, it's like, oh, I'm fat, but I work so hard and I have a wife and I have a daughter and my mum's sick and I've got so many responsibilities and on and on it goes. And I told this myself, this story in my head for many, many years, until one time day I just went it, I don't want to live this life anymore. I'm in a lot of pain, I don't sleep well, I have zero energy, I'm going to get in the gym and it's going to suck for a very long time and it's going to hurt, and it is ridiculous. And now I'm at the point, 12 months on where I crave going to the gym. My life isn't right if I don't do it. And my life is 10%, not 80, 90% if I'm going to the gym. So I played that story to myself. And just think, what story are you playing in your head? I see it a lot on Twitter, where people feel disadvantaged. And you just have to realize, like, hey, look at your position. You're in Australia. You have the opportunity to get education. You may have a lot going on in your life. You may have responsibilities. But hey, you know, if you've got all your limbs, your mental faculty, faculties, you can do this. You know, after work, you can study, you can get another job. It will take years, but it will be worth it. And that's a choice that you can make. All right, let's get on to number seven. And you've helped me a lot with this. Set goals and rewards. So why am I investing? For me, it was always to put the money away for when I need it for the future. When I grew up, we didn't have much money at all. So I didn't want to be like that. So I started, you know, saving a lot of money, investing that money, and, you know, there it is. The problem is that you have to spend that money as well. So you have to set rewards along the way. Otherwise you miss out on your life. And I'm reading Die with Zero, and in that book, it tells you about, know what you're optimizing for, and optimize for life, enjoyment and fulfillment, not dollars in the bank account. More marbles that you stack up. Yeah, I have a hundred thousand dollars, a million dollars, five million dollars. Great. What did you do last year? How did you spend it with your family? Did you do any traveling? What memories do you have? What new experiences? How did you enjoy your life? What was your fulfillment? That is way more important. And do not, dear listener, miss out on your life, your 20s, 30s, 40s, by being a slave somewhere and stacking marbles. Make sure you have your rewards set as well. And as part of this rule, no one ever went broke from taking profits. You don't always have to have more and more and more investments. You can take cash off the table. So if you take, let's say, $10,000 off the table, you can put 3,000 into savings, reinvest 3,000 and 3,000. You can go and spend on your rewards for being a good investor and sticking to strategy. And as part of this beta, can we just. Yep.

Sorry. I just want to reiterate, no one went broke from taking profits.

How good that way?

Yeah, and we don't. Especially in a crypto bull market. So many people will. Will hope it goes high. Like for 90% of investors that go through crypto cycles, you know, they don't make money their first cycle because they hope it's going to go higher and they've taken nothing off the table. Like take some money off the table, for crying out loud. Like do something with that money. You still got a foot in the game. You won't go broke by taking profits. You will, though, if you don't sell.

Exactly. Always have a sell strategy and an exit plan. And isn't it just the hardest thing to do? And we went through, you and I together and you told me your sell strategy. We actually did it in a Ben and Bergs one. And I was like, this is amazing. But hang on a minute. Like when you're selling, you had trigger points of what you wanted to do and what you're going to do with the money. But we expanded on it further. How are you going to sell? Which exchange? How are you going to get back to fiat? What is your tax going to be? And then how are you going to spend that on your rewards and how long will that take? In time. And it was so specific where you could just. I could pick up that piece of paper and I could execute your account if you gave me the keys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Rule number eight, things will go wrong. You're human, learn. So when you invest, you will lose money. That is the price of entry. You either end up with money or a lesson. That is investing. End of. Right. So it is a lot to learn. It takes at least I would say five years to be a competent investor where you don't get ripped off every second and you know what you're doing and you have a strategy and you understand how things work, the systems, the tooling. And just to understand yourself as an investor and how you invest and you know what you want to do with your money. It takes time to do this. And this is not just the average person. So I was listening to, I think it's tiger 21, where you have to have at least. Was it 20 million, 50 million, something like that, to be in that club as a rich people club. And generally it's a lot of business owners, they exit their business the next Day, they're like, shit, what do I do? I don't have my, you know, EA bringing me coffee. I don't have all of my executive team. I'm just at home. And now I need to do something with this money. I need to invest. It takes them an average of 5 years to be competent at that. And you will make lots of mistakes. In any system there is always waste, there's mistakes. You can't optimize every single dollar. It's okay. You're learning, you're doing this for the long term and you're going to be Investing to your 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, 70s, 80s, you will still be investing. You'll have even now you're investing with superannuation if you're an employee. So it's okay, you're human, just learn.

I like it. And you're not, you're not going to have a perfect out of the gates. You know, our first cycle in crypto, you know, you learn so much, you make mistakes, but it's about learning from them, documenting them in iterating so you don't make them again. And you can build from that.

Exactly. Like first crypto cycle I made every mistake. Second, I made less, but still made a lot of mistakes. This cycle I have a perfect strategy, well, a strategy for me that I know I can execute on, that perfectly fits my goals and that's all I need to do. And now it's just up to me to execute it so I actually have a proper plan.

Number nine, the Joneses aren't as happy or as rich as I think. So once you reach a certain level of wealth, which is essentially your basic needs are met, your sense of enough is based on the people around you. My friend got this car, he got a Tesla. My mate got this job, it pays $30,000 more. My friend went to Japan or these guys went on a private jet, this guy's bought this new car, you know, or they bought another house and then moved suburbs and now they've got a two story house with a pool. So you need to be aware of first of all, hedonistic adaptation. So when your money goes up and you start earning more and you start to have more investments, having that lifestyle creep, just be aware of that and make sure it is manageable. So for me I'm comfortable because I can afford, let's say here, but my lifestyle is here and I'm very happy with that. And just having that buffer, not living on the edge of insolvency is a huge mental relief for me. And honestly, thinking of this, it's really comparison is the thief of joy. You're running your own race. It is about you and your family, not about your neighbors. And your neighbors have a lot. And your friends have a lot of problems they don't talk about. Everyone is fighting an invisible battle you know nothing about. They don't. They like, they'll post on Facebook and Insta and Twitter and everywhere else. TikTok. They'll be like, look at me, I'm so happy I'm with my kid. I'm this, I'm that. I remember going to a show across the road with this one of these moms. It's just like, oh, oh, oh. Taking photos with her kid. And then her kid was just like bored because she ignored him the whole time. And then she just walked off in the other direction on her phone and this poor little six year old was just like left there. And you see what happens on Instagram for that moment. But the reality is very, very different. You see this person, it's like, my job is amazing. I get to do this, I get to do that. You don't see them crying and having panic attacks and being anxious all day long. And that's the reality of who they are. So the Joneses are never as happy or rich as you think.

I love this one. And it's so, it resonates with me so much right now, being in Bali, having this conversation recently. Like there is no, there is no like so social hierarchy here. Like no one gives a. Like you're not going to drive a car. Like you're not going to drive a Mercedes around in Bali. Like you're not going to wear a Gucci handbag in Bali. Like, like maybe you are. Once you go out, you're trying to like show off for the very few people that do. But the day to day life, no one gives a flying fuck who you are here. You wear a singlet, wear thongs and you walk around and there's nothing to show off. And that's what I love about this place. I think that's why it's so relaxed, because it's that, you know, it's not about the house, it's not about the car. Like there's very few things actually spend your money on here. Yeah, exactly. You're in that environment.

Exactly. And you also have to think like, people look rich. And when you ask your friends, why is this person rich? Oh, they have a nice house, a nice car, nice watch, immediately, that's rich, man.

Stop. If I see anyone Wearing like a Balenciaga hoodie or like, you know, a Gucci handbag. I'm like, yeah, okay, no worries.

You know, the people. Well, first of all, I think is it funded with debt or equity? 9 times out of 10 it's funded with debt that they have to service. Yeah. And then I think of the rich people that I know, like the really rich people, they don't want people to know they're rich. Like they, you know, eventually they might move to a nice neighborhood in a nice house, but they drive average cars, they wear average clothes. They don't want those kind of problems. Because when people know that you're rich, your life changes. They, the way people react to you, the way, and this is what rich people have told me, the way they act here, the way your friends, people ask you for money is just complicated and weird. So. Yeah. And Ben, you know, a lot of, you know, a few billionaires as well, and they wear hoodies you don't even know.

Like, like we had an event and yeah, one of, one of the, one of our investors, billionaire rolled in the room mate. You, you. Like if you looked at him off the street, you'd probably think he was, you know, 9 to 5, earning 50k, like didn't give a. You know what I mean? Like rolled in a hoodie and you know. Exactly. He's got out of bed.

Exactly. It's just optics. And the reason people are doing, they're doing that for a reason. Like showing off. Like the people that have like a Balenciaga, the Lambo, whatever, it's for a reason. All right, number 10 reason. Yes, number 10. This is probably the most important rule I've saved it for last time is your most valuable, non renewable resource. Time is greater than money. So when you look back on your life or anything you do, all you have is your time and how you spend it is up to you. You can trade that time and you can trade it for a job, a skill learning, whatever, and you can go to that job and essentially what you're trading your skill and your time for is money is just proof of work. Isn't this wild? Like when you spend money, like you go to the cashier, let's imagine using cash and you spend it. That's actually like dollars of hard work that you or someone else has done. Isn't that wild? And it's very easy to say that, you know, if you don't have a level of comfort with money. Yes, you need to use your time. Anything you want to do, like we say Ben, you either spend your time or your money doing something. Like if I don't have the money, like when we had this house, I didn't have the money to paint. It was $6,000. Didn't have $6,000 paint it myself. If we built a new house, I would probably pay someone to do it. It's either with your time or your time. Exactly. And once you get to a certain level, you start to get choices. How do you spend your time? You can afford a cleaner, you can pay someone to do your laundry, you can go part time at work. And even you might want to make a sacrifice to go part time at work and spend more time with your family while they're younger. They want to hang out with you, you're all healthy and build those memories and have those memory dividends for the rest of your life and sacrifice your money going up, you might burn down some of your savings. That is perfectly okay. But a lot of people live their time on autopilot. They think they'll be, they'll live forever, they'll be healthy forever. They're going to have their golden years in their 60s and 70s and travel the world. Guess what? That ain't going to fucking happen. You're going to be very old, you're going to be tired, you're going to be sick. Try and do those things now and be more reasonable with your time. That is a big lesson for me. I'm still working on that every day. I'm still trying to get it right, but at least I understand that lesson now.

And also, like, one thing that I've been thinking about a lot recently is like trying to live more in the present. I live so far in the future constantly thinking about tomorrow, constantly thinking about a week ahead, constantly, like not living in the moment and you know, trying to be more present is actually quite hard. I think it's really got to do with, you know, how you think about life and the people you surround yourself with.

But trying to be more present, I think can ultimately make him. It's helped me be more happier and more fulfilled because I'm not constantly worrying about the next thing all the time. Yes, I am always constantly worrying about the next thing. But if you can enjoy the day to day and the conversations you have and the time that you spend, like that's, that's, that's limited supply times, limited supply. You know what I mean? That's, what's a day, getting that back.

It's not stacking marbles for a future that may never happen. You Know, you don't know if you're going to live to that future, right? And that, just that, that day to day and doing the things that you want to do and being mindful of it, it's very, very difficult to do. But once you do, you have a level of happiness and peace that you might not have known your entire life. Like a lot of the time now I am quite calm and peaceful. Whereas before I was always anxious thinking about the next thing, living in the future. And like I go back to Osho and what he said about if you want to be enlightened, just drop your goals. Any goal that you have, just drop it. Just stop and live. And you notice this when you go on leave. So let's say you're going on holidays for two weeks. The first week, yeah, you're still thinking about work, you're worried about all the stuff that you left, your emails, all that sort of nonsense. By week two, you're completely relaxed. You've got nothing to do. You get to choose what you do every single day. And it's just pure joy and happiness. You sleep longer, you eat what you want, you hang out with the people you want. That is what enlightenment and mindfulness is.

And who you are during that time. So I've actually, I haven't taken two weeks off before, I don't think, unless it's like over Christmas, but like a week in New Zealand, completely disconnected. Recently when I was away from work. Who are you? Like you're a new person. Like your character isn't the business anymore. It's not your work, it's not the salary you make, it's not. It's like you're this whole new person. You're on the fucking slopes, you're doing snowboarding, jump out of a plane. Like that doesn't matter who you are anymore. It's a completely new version of you. You know what I mean? It's such a, such a crazy way to think about it.

You came back and you were like, man, life is good. And what you're talking about there is we had these Personas and we have ego. Where I am Ben, CEO of Collective Shift. I run a company, I'm a business owner, I speak at events, I have employees. On and on it goes. And when you don't have that, who are you? And when you're on holidays, what you experienced was your ego just dissolving. And it was yourself.

And that ability. I think, you know, the last three or four months, I've really tried to. After that, New Zealand Trip is, you know, take that energy into my day to day, live in the present, enjoy the moments, enjoy outside of work, enjoy the, the friendships, you know, the conversations of people I meet here when I'm traveling is like, you know, the conversations I have in the morning at 6:30am in the sauna with random people about their life, you know. And you know, at a cafe, you know, on Saturday, I played a game of Monopoly for two hours with a guy that I've recently met and some, some random person that was in there. We just had a great conversation about life, like. But I've never been, I've actually struggled to do that in the past because I'm constantly, I've got a packed day, you know, I've scheduled things in, I know what I'm doing, I need to move, move, move. But then more recently it's like, oh, I hadn't booked anything on my Saturday. I'm just going to go with the flow, see what happens. End up having an amazing day, met two people and played Monopoly for two hours. Like, you know, I haven't been able to do that in the past.

That this is it. And like, even if Saturday, if you got nothing planned, just start walking, keep walking until you find something interesting. Yeah, you would be surprised what you come across.

It's amazing, mate. So look, There are my 10 investing rules. I hope everyone has got some value out of that. And folks listening to this, have a look through those and if you've got, if you're investing or you've got a friend that's investing, send this to them because these are like all of these are collated not only through my own experience but from probably like hundreds of books that I've read. Lots of people speak about this and those classic rules, you don't really understand them until you've been investing for a long time and you start to form your own sense of investing self. And look everyone out there. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode. And Ben, where can they hit us up mate if they want to want to chat some more?

Yeah, please tweet at us at, @Bennetbergs on Twitter if you are on Twitter or you can you follow us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, you can send in a, a question on Spotify as well if you have anything you want us to talk about. As a burg said, love for you to share this with a friend if you know of anyone that you think would find value in this podcast. It's how we grow the podcast each and every week and thank you so much for listening, Bergs. Great, great episode. I love that one. We'll see you on the next one.

Thanks, mate. And thank you, champions.