109. Ben’s Top Lessons on How He Went from an Introvert to a Paid Public Speaker

Welcome back to another episode of the Ben and Bergs Podcast. I'm Ben, your favorite high school dropout and founder of Collective Shift, alongside me as Bergs, your favorite MBA and COO of Collective Shift, Australia's leading crypto portfolio insights company, providing professional analysis and portfolio strategies for crypto investors. Like you, we are a unique blend of the established and the self made and we're here to break down crypto business and personal growth. But we're not just here to talk crap, we're giving you the insights you need to make better investments, build successful businesses and level up your life. And today we're talking about public speaking. And a year ago I never really spoken in front of anyone, was absolutely terrified to speak in front of people, introverted heart and just didn't want to speak in front of people. And I had an opportunity to do a TEDx talk in September last year on crypto. And I hate honestly, you know, saying no opportunities. I mean, this was an absolute massive one. Although I was absolutely shit scared, I agreed to it early last year and, and started to think about how on earth I was going to deliver this talk. And next week, or when this episode gets released will probably be this coming Saturday. We're doing probably one of the biggest keynotes I've done at the Australian Crypto Convention in Melbourne. That's going to be a massive sort of crowd there, which I'm super excited about. So today we wanted to talk about some things that I've done to help me take me from being fearful in public and talking in front of others to being able to confidently speak and try and nail these keynotes. Not to say that I get nervous, I still get shit scared, but it's just about managing that and practice. So we're going to go through seven things that help me and hopefully for those of you that have a passion or have a topic that you want to speak about in front of others, this will help you go from where you are now to improving now. By no means am I a expert at this, but these are just my lessons that I've learned over the last year to get me to where I am. How are you?

Good, mate. And I have seen you improve a lot over time. The talk that you gave at EO was absolutely cracking. Not a dry eye in the room, mate. It was really well thought out to see where you actually started. And I remember when you started doing content and mate, you need to go back and look at that. Like we look back on our first pod and see how far you've actually come like, it's, it's pretty impressive, mate.

Thanks, man. I think that's like public speaking too. Like, I think for me, like public speaking is like, you know, I use the analogy of pushing a rock downhill, right. Starting at the top of the hill, it's hard to get it moving to start with that flat surface. Like you're just really, you know, heaving it to get it going. And once you've had enough repetitions, enough practice, you start to get momentum and confidence and it starts to roll down the hill and you just improve from there. The hardest bit, yeah, starting. So what I did to begin with, and like you just mentioned Berg, is actually create content. So I started creating content on social media. This was the best way that I started to learn how to speak. Right. Once you get in front of camera for a lot of people, it's actually really hard to create content because you get nervous, it feels weird, it feels artificial if it was scripted. But it's a great starting point to start to present a topic or an idea in a, in a way that resonates and makes sense to people. And I find video content is the best way that you can practice without actually speaking in front of a live audience.

Absolutely. I've done this before, like recording yourself to see what you look like. Looking at your, you know, your verbal tics, they like all the weird stuff that you don't actually notice. You're like, oh, I do this or I've missed this part. It's one of the best ways to do it. I find this really challenging as well because there's no feedback, there's no feedback from the audience. You don't see if they're smiling, if they're laughing, if they're bored, if they're on their phones. But still it's a very safe way to get better.

Number two is investing in your own education. So I actually flew to the US last year to do a three day public speaking course. I always love finding experts in different fields to learn from them. You know, I think in life, you know, depending on what your you've got more of time or money, there's kind of two routes you can go down. If you've got more time, well then you go and learn it yourself, right? You read books, you spend time learning, you learn from different people online and watch YouTube videos and you put the work in. If you've got more money, well then you can expedite that process and you can go and find someone that's done it before. That's an Expert that can consult you and give you more tailored information. So for me, I invest a lot into different education across different parts of my life. And I found this speaking course really helped me not only present, but even put the talk together. You know, the structure of how you put together a public presentation is also just as important. So I learned a lot of lessons from that.

Yeah, and you need, like, everyone out there. Public speakers aren't born that way. They're made. They go for training. They do lots of talks, they have lots of practice. They have media training and that's how they get good. You get good by practicing. And yeah, you. You even did a media course here in Australia, didn't you?

Yeah, I did PR training actually as well. PR.

Live training. So that was actually, that was. That was one of the hardest things I've done in terms of media training. So I was over in Perth, it was a PR company and basically we went through and I learned how to deal with difficult questions from the media. It was very uncomfortable. When we did a live run, I walked into a room, I got miked up, I was on camera, and then they had three of the journalists there just absolutely fire off questions and made me really feel like, you know, they basically, you know, manipulated questions to, to see how I would react and respond. And they recorded that and we went back into the room and watched me on, on the screen. And it was. The first one was horrific. You know, like the, you know, really good journalists can ask specific questions that make you say things and get you fired up and angry and, and, and how the emotions come out. Know I was fidgeting my hands, I was like playing with my neck. Like all these things that make you look really nervous and these, these public cues we walk through and, and tried to like, you know, wind out. So, yeah, that was a really, you know, interesting, intensive way to learn.

After you did that, did you then look at, like, people on TV and like, see how professional they are and like, whoa, like, respect. Like, the interviewee are like, wow, you're getting grilled by someone and you're calm and you're not firing off, you're not biting back. You're like, okay, they've said this, I'll let it go and I'll answer the question in this way.

Yeah, you have so much more respect for people, especially like politicians and stuff. They're the best. Right? I was watching a video the other day. I think it was a guy in New Zealand who's. Is going for their prime minister and position and like this journalist Was trying to really get into him about having this like right wing viewpoints. And he's like sitting back, he's relaxed, he's like happy. He's like eating an apple. He's like, what right wing viewpoints? And the jail's like, well, yeah, you know, the ones you've been talking about is like, what to give me an example. Give me one example. Oh, you know, and like it, it went from this journalist thinking he had this like, angle of like just, you know, asking these very broad questions to like make him say something where the responses, he, he didn't bite. He was so unemotional, he was engaged, but, but not, you know, not really interested. And he turned it right back on the journalist. And the journalist was the person that was like mumbling and stuffing up and getting sweaty and nervous and like he flipped the whole.

Yeah.

The whole context of the situation. And I think that like that's like, you know, that's the ultimate to train professional.

Yeah. Two great examples of this. First one is Jordan, Jordan Peterson, one of his first interviews. And he got roasted by this lady and there was like a meme going around and like Jordan asked like a lady, she's like, oh, would you like to go to a movie? And she turns around and goes, oh, what are you saying? Women can't read? And that was honestly like the tone of the interview. And he handled it so well. She was out to get him. It's her job to do that. She did a fantastic job. And his just rebuttal and just how he remained calm when it was so uncomfortable was amazing. And the one you just said that happened to Elon with Twitter. And a guy gets on and he's, it's a big interview and he's like, oh, what about, you know, the hate speech, this, that whatever it may be. And Elon's well, do you have an example? Can you show me how this has gotten worse? Just give me one example. And he's like, but you don't even have one example. Completely flipped it around on him. And if he did have examples and was prepared, then they could have had a discussion about it. But it was just, it was masterful to actually see that and see someone take the power back in that relationship.

So educate. Investing in your education, number two is really important. Number three is just taking every opportunity you can get. So it doesn't matter if it's a free opportunity, a paid one, small or large. I've just said yes to absolutely everything, you know, whether it's speaking on a Twitter Spaces, whether it's, you know, speaking to a group of three people, whether it's going to a big event, whatever it is, I've always said yes and, and it doesn't matter if it's about your topic or not, you know, so one of the first entry to speaking I had was when I was a basketball referee coach. So I used to coach basketball referees for a number of years. I used to train them back in, back in Tasmania and that allowed me to start to, you know, work on my presenting skills and that then eventually helped me present Crypto. Right. Doesn't need to be the topic that you're in right now, but just taking any opportunity to, to practice your craft is, is a, is a great opportunity.

Definitely practice, practice.

Next one is get comfortable with the uncomfortable. So studies have found that people are actually more fearful of public speaking than death, believe it or not. And I, when I used to get up on stage, you know, always used to get a sickening feeling some of sewing. I still do. You know, I get pretty bad anxiety when I'm going up and you know, especially a big, a big presentation like the TEDx talk. But just acknowledge it. Like for me, sitting in that uncomfortable feeling, I try and change my perspective rather than just like getting really nervous and getting scared, turning into like, well, hey, like those feelings are a feeling about comfortability which means you're leveling up, you're in an area that you're not comfortable with, you're not used to. And the more you do this, the more comfortable you'll get. So embracing those fears and learning to, to breathe through them and know that if you mess up, it's not the end of the world, you know. Last year at my OZ Crypto Con conference, I prepared this whole speech around like a beginner level entry to crypto. Got there, asked who was in crypto. In the crowd, everyone put their hand up which meant my presentation was completely like not going to be valuable. Had a bit of a breakdown for about 10 seconds, had no idea what I was going to do and then it sort of pulled it back and winged it.

So like things don't go to plan always and you're gonna stuff up and you're gonna make mistakes, but you know, who the hell cares? No one ever remembers.

Yeah, that's it. No one will remember what you said. They'll remember how you made them feel. And I think I also still get uncomfortable before public speaking. And it's funny because I'll sit there and I'll be like, you know, my, my Stomach feels a bit like, you know, butterflies and stomach kind of thing. You feel a bit anxious and you're like, I'll just sit back. And I'm like, this is just ridiculous. Like, why? I've done this so many times. It's absolutely fine. I know it's going to go fine. It's a talk I've given before. And then I just get on stage and bang, I'm on. All that just goes away. And let's just deliver. It's up until that point where it's like weird, like uncomfortable and anxiety. Even if it's too a group I know well. Or something I've done before. I'm like, okay, it's just a part of how my body works. All right, let's go. And then bang, let's go. And you feel so good after it as well. Like taking those. Like, I had a couple of opportunities and you're just like, just take them. I'm like, yeah, but there's effort and I have to, you know, prepare and I have to do this. You're like, bro, you're gonna feel so good. Just do it. I'm like, all right. So I got a couple coming up in November. It's gonna be good.

The next one is record your talk. So if you're doing YouTube videos, Instagram videos, whatever presentation stalks, watch it again afterwards. It's very uncomfortable, you know, to watch you watch yourself talk. But, like, look and see how you talk, how you. How do you look on camera, how do you sound, how your physical movements. What are you doing? Do you look nervous? Are you walking around? Are you wandering? Are you saying ums a lot? Identify your weaknesses, work on improving them, and you'll get consistent, consistently better results. If you, if you're not doing that reflection, it's very hard to know where you need to improve unless you have a speaking coach.

You took your TED Talk, the next.

Piece here, which, sorry, yeah, you took.

Your TED Talk very seriously. And I remember you came to Perth three or four months before your TED Talk and you got miked up. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. And I'm like, no one else has a mic. This is weird. And then you've got a guy videoing you from the back. And I'm like, this guy here, man. Like, he's always in the studio, he's always recording himself. He's always taking photos. Like, what has he got at home? Just like this big shrine to himself with all these, like, printed out photos, mate. But you were doing it because you wanted to get better. Like, your talk was already at like a very high level. You dominated everyone else that spoke that night. I was very, very proud to be a part of Collective Shift and be in your corner. That talk was sensational and you still wanted to improve from there. And you did that by doing the uncomfortable thing, recording it, but then also reviewing that recording, going through every little thing and just iterating and making it better and better and better.

Thanks, man. Yeah, it's like two pole. One, you can review it, but two, you can also use it as content so you can chop that up. You can use it on socials. Like, it's a great way to, to get a little bit extra value out of, out of that talk. The next bit, which I just mentioned is actually hiring a speaking coach. So I hired a speaking coach for, for around my TEDx time to review the talks I was doing and that actually give me more specific professional knowledge on my talk. So, yeah, that was, that was really, really helpful. And the last one is just to have fun. And this is one that I like to try as much as I can as part of my personality, but just to like, you know, enjoy, have fun, laugh, interact with the crowd. Not only does it make them more engaged, but it makes you feel more relaxed. Like if you get a few laughs in the crowd, I instantly feel at ease. I'm like, hey, cool. Like I'm resonating with this audience.

Nothing worse than a dead quiet audience that really don't seem interested or engaged. And you can just see them all like yawning in on their phone, in the, in the audience. That's, that's when you need to change things up and get them, get them engaged. But yeah, get those reps in. The only way to get better at public speaking, I found, is to actually do it. There's nothing else that can actually, you know, replicate the real thing. So get out there, start doing it. Don't overthink it. Take the free things, Take any opportunities that, that come your way. Doesn't matter if you're, you know, they're free opportunities, paid opportunities, whatever. Take them, learn, iterate, review, review yourself and talk about stuff that you're passionate about, right? If you know what you're talking about and you're passionate about it and you're knowledgeable, your talk's gonna go fine because you can pick it up at any point. What becomes hard is if you're speaking about something you don't know much about, that's where things get, get a little bit more Difficult. So yeah, hope that helps and get after it.

And this is a core skill that you need in life. It's like you say it's up there with death, like people fear it that much, but once you do it, it's pretty easy. And it is such a skill just to be able to get up and give a talk on a moment's notice like I am now, comfortable enough. If you're like, oh Burgs, go and give a talk about this. Obviously it has to be a topic I know about within the next five minutes I'll get up there and I'll talk, no worries. That would have scared the shit out of me a long time ago, but I'm that comfortable now. And if you think about this like in your life.

If you want to, if you're in business, you can start off easy. You could have a stand up with your team in the morning and it's about communication, communicating a vision where you want to go that's giving a talk. You can create different looms on what your project is and get distribution. What I did was when I was doing this crazy thing with mobile apps in health and no one wanted a bar of it because it was completely changing the game with the way that we did it. I went around and gave talks to everyone, whether it was one person, a group of people at a meeting or, or even board of directors talk to multiple boards and just kept getting this distribution and speaking about it and honing that craft. You can do things like you can get invited to speak, you can jump on panels, you can go to toastmasters, just get after it and do it and you'll be so much more effective in your life. And that'll carry over to just when you're communicating to humans. Because when you do a talk, you have to distill everything in your life, everything that's going on, the things that you're working on into a really honed thing where people can understand what's going on. You're communicating a message and they leave with something, they leave with some value. And once you can do that, you can just do that on the fly in your normal life and it becomes incredibly valuable. I can't recommend it enough.

Yeah, great. And also that just like, you know, the, the ability to influence others in a good way, like you know, thinking about ways you can actually deliver a message, deliver a passion of yours, educate people like this. There's no other.

Better platform to do that where you can help a group of people move their lives forward than, you know, delivering your message to a number of people so you can really change lives through to be able to do that.

Well, it's storytelling, right? And if you read the book Sapiens, that's essentially what it's about. Like that's what differentiates us, us being able to tell stories, understand previous messages and then get a group of people together to coordinate through a story that you have. And back when I was working in health, like I'm like, I was like an IT guy, right? Like I could get up, I could tell people, you know, about this amazing thing that we're doing and how it helps patients, whatever. But if I get a clinician to get up and tell the story, right, they know nothing about the tech, but it links to like the, the people, how they've helped them, what they've done, the operations they've had, the rehab they've had that and the outcome they've had that really connects with people. So it's about that story, getting the right person to do it and telling your story in a specific way.

Awesome. Well, hopefully that's helped you all. Some lessons from my one year speaking career. Again, not an expert by any stretch, but I definitely was starting from same from nothing about a year ago. And you know, these, these things certainly have helped me a lot and hopefully they can help you if you to get out there and start speaking. So thank you once again. Bergs, as always, if you found this episode valuable, we'd love for you to share it around. If you have a friend, colleague, whatever. And also leave us a review, you can jump on Spotify or podcasts, Apple podcasts. It really helps us grow the podcast and share the messages and the proper education around crypto, business and personal growth. So we'd love for you to give us a honest rating and let us know what you think.

Awesome. Thanks for listening, champions.