207. How Benny Scarf Went from 0 to 200K+ Followers In 12 Months

Welcome back to another episode of the Ben and Bergs podcast. I'm Ben, your favorite high school dropout and founder of Collective Shift, alongside Ms. Bergs, your favorite MBA and CEO of Collective Shift. We're here to bring you world class crypto research strategies and insights to help you crush this crypto bull market. Plus, get an exclusive behind the scenes view of us scaling Australia's leading crypto research company. If you love the podcast, we'd love for you to share it around with a friend. It is how we grow it each and every week. And today we've got a special guest coming on board. Ben Scarf, Content creator, horse hunting fanatic, I guess you could call him. And genuine. Yeah, just a funny guy that I've been following online for a little while, seeing his growth on Instagram. And you, you know him probably as Benny Scarf, the guy that bets 5 cents for every Instagram follower that he, that he has. And yeah, he's growing to over 200000 followers now. 213 as of today. He's got a bet on in an hour and a half. So we're gonna today talk about the, the behind the scenes of what he does, his business model, how he thinks about growing a personal brand and everything. He's got it going on as well. So Benny, thanks for coming on, man.

Thank you.

Good to be here, mate. You've got to bet on, right? Race is in an hour and a half.

Yeah.

What have you looked at? How have you placed the bet? What have you got on the bet? Talk us through it.

Well, every podcast I go on, they always ask me, what's the biggest bet you've placed? And the answer is always two days ago or whatever like mine. My bet is currently pending, jumps an hour and a half for $10,650.

Not something I recommend. Do as I say, not as I do.

Where are we betting today? It's a Wednesday.

As well.

Yeah, yeah, I've never, I've never been in Tasmania. I'm usually Sydney Melbourne.

Wow.

Jack of all trades, I guess, mate. Definitely Master of None. That's, that's.

It is.

That's a guarantee. Definitely Master of None.

It's a Launceston cup. So I'm from Launceston. It's a Launceston cup today, right?

There you go. Yeah, it's Launceston cup day. It's like the biggest day in the calendar down there, right?

Make me a bigger day in Tasmania.

If any scars plunk. 10k on the Lonnie cup, mate. It's.

It's a big day, the Lonnie Cup.

So, okay, so you put 10 of the bit thousand dollars on Talk us through. Like, how long has it taken you to get from. Where did you start? Was it like a thousand bucks? How long has it taken you to get to where you are now?

My first video would have been like 2nd of April or something like that. 2024. So what's that, nine months ago?

Yeah.

At zero.

Yeah.

Dead set. Zero.

I've just always kind of believed in personal brands. Well, not. I always believe in personal brands, but I remember I was at a. A seminar with Simon Beard, as in like the founder of Culture Kings, and he was talking about how people don't really buy off businesses anymore. Really. They want to put a. A face or a name to the brand. That's why you look at other personal brands. Even before content was a thing like Kim Kardashian, massive athletes, Michael Jordan, they're making huge amounts of money more so off their business and you know, their sporting ability and stuff like that. How much is the Jordan Airs? Whatever it is, that'd be worth 10, like billions of dollars.

Yeah.

Which.

Which would have been completely impossible without Michael Jordan's personal brand. For example. There's people buying of people these days and as opposed to businesses. That's why I kind of started it. I thought that's true. People don't really trust businesses. The same reason why you're scrolling through Instagram. You see, you say it's a sponsored instantly scroll. Did you go, fuck him? He's trying to sell me something. People can sniff out an ad before it's even an ad. Like, so as soon as something comes. The art is in its subtlety. I'm kind of digressing here, but people are more willing to buy off people as opposed to businesses. And so that's why I kind of started it. It's going really well.

You sent. You've essentially grown to. Yeah. Over 200,000 followers in like a year. Which is pretty crazy. Like, did you. Did you do any content before doing this sort of like series or you just sort of learn as you went?

Not really. I worked as a bookmaker in marketing, so I did a little bit of in front of camera stuff, but not really. Like I was nothing to the scale of what I did now. I used to post videos and like little Facebook punching Facebook groups, but ultimately no, like nowhere near the scale of what it is now. Like as much as it's now 200k. That's pretty much stagnated now. It's going out probably a thousand every week or two. Yep.

I reckon I hit 200k at November.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. And what now? We're in February, mid, late Feb. So it's, it went like that and then it's absolutely skyrocketed at the start, like, the first bet was 150 bucks, and then by the eighth day it was like four grand. It just went bananas. It went bananas. Yeah.

So I, I've, I've seen, I'm a fan of yours and I follow you on Instagram and I was just in stitches with your, your videos, mate, how you set them up, the things that you do for those listeners that haven't seen what you actually do. Can you describe it to them, what you kind of produce on a daily basis and upload?

Mate.

I hate this. Yeah. Sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud, don't you?

That's the whole thing. It is. It is ridiculous and it's amazing.

Is ridiculous. Well, I always wanted to put the bets on with cash, and I do it. People think I'm sponsored by the Tab and I, I don't address it because I like to keep it a bit ambiguous, but I'm not. There's no way they would. There's always people in the comments saying, why would the Tab have an ambassador who talks about drugs and strippers? Like, why would they, why would they want them as this ambassador? Like, he's clearly not sponsored by the Tab.

I go down, I got a little chat to the girls at the, at the Tab, put on big bet, show the ticket. I, look, I started using cash and using tab tickets for complete authenticity. So people, you can't forge that stuff. You cannot. You can probably forge an online bet set or something up. You can't forge a ticket. And now everyone thinks it's fake anyway. So now I'm like, well, it, like.

I'll give up.

And then I pretty much just like react to the race and people like it continuously want to say how it's fake. I'm like, look at the veins in my neck. Like, if that's not a real bet, I, I, what do you, what else do you want from me? What else do you possibly want for me to prove that this is a real bet. Like, if I, if, if that's not real, I should be in Hollywood. I'm in the completely wrong industry.

Oh, it. I think that's why people like it because it is so authentic and real. And let me just add a bit of flavor here. So when you say you go, you go into the tab. You kind of stroll in Conor McGregor style, go in, you got a fat sack of cash, put it on. There's like, right, I want like race four, whatever you want. And then you get the ticket, stroll out there, you do a few stunts along the way which are just hilarious. So one with flowers and a few other things. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta appreciate the people behind the counter.

Well, exactly.

And then the ones I've looked at, you're at, at your house with your mates and you're just screaming at the TV like you've got a massive bed on, there's veins on your neck. You're telling your mates to shut up because they're too loud and you're just absolutely going for it and losing your mind. And it is the most entertaining thing.

Yeah, it's so. It's fun. It's get. I reckon it's more fun now filming because now I've like. Initially I was kind of like, oh, I want to build this business and stuff. Now I'm just like it. I'm just gonna have fun. Like you just kind of build up an app for just giving less and less of a shit. Yeah. And now once you start having fun with it and treat it less like a, like a business and your job, you have a way more fun with it. And it also just comes off way more authentic and natural content.

That's what Ben and I have discovered. The more fun we have, the more authentic we are, 100%. The easier it is and the more money we make.

Exactly. Like the more likable, the more generally charismatic you are, the more. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. There's been a big shift I think away from that like real over produced, high quality scripted content to just real natural tick tock, ification style. Like authentic.

Definitely. Like I was considering using like a proper camera for my content to make it a bit more. Just a bit more professional and stuff. But I think that would actually make it worse.

Yeah, I agree.

I think kind of the beauty of it is the purest authenticity. It's kind of like there's. If you look at my top videos there are a graphic designer or like a video editor would kill, like just shoot themselves because that's just riddled with mistakes like, like typos, like lighting errors, like terrible shit. But yeah, that's kind of the beauty of it all.

Yeah.

And the way it's.

I'm just a guy having fun.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Especially like the way it's filmed. It's from one of your mates perspective on the couch and I feel like I'm there having a beer with you and getting amongst it.

It's exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benny, you spoke about going away from trying to treat it as a business and a job towards just more enjoying it. Like, what is the business model behind it? Like, do you make money from this? Is it just from the hunting side of things or.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you view all that sort of things?

Oh, it's next to impossible to win gambling. Especially, especially on horse racing. Like there's a select few in Australia that would make money gambling. But no, I run it through an affiliate model. So I affiliate with bookmakers. One specifically double. Pretty much just get paid virtually just for the sign up. So the heart, the hardest, the biggest cost for a bookmaker is getting people through the door. If they can find people get through, get them through the door, they're gonna, they're willing to pay big, big dollars for that. So.

Pretty much I just sign up a bunch of these people. Yeah, it's profitable for them. As long as, from like a bookmaker perspective, as long as the CPA that they're paying me for the sign up is less than. As long as all those clients are ultimately profitable over the journey of their lot of the customer journey, then yeah, play on like, everyone's happy. Yeah, there's a lot of debate, like, because I, I post bets and stuff and they can copy them, whatever. There's all this stuff about like, oh, he takes 30 cents on the dollar for every lost bet. I'm like, no, that's not how it works. But I like it. I like to keep it ambiguous. I like people talking like, if any, if no one really knows where the money's coming from, then it adds to the mystery of it all. So I don't really address it.

Was this something you had in mind before you started creating content? You knew the model or you kind of discovered it as you.

No idea. I had no idea. I was just like, if you just grow. If it. Look, if you grow a brand.

The monetization is the easy part. You don't even have to think about it at the start. Once you grow your brand, then you can start thinking about it. The hardest part is growing your brand. Monetization is easy. That just comes naturally. There's something you can sell. Like there's people who sell shit that have nothing to do with what they're doing. Like what Ned Brockham selling milk? What the. He's making millions of dollars off selling milk. He's right. He runs. What are you Talking like, I'm serious. You know what I mean?

Like, bro, my favorite one is Alex Jones. You know that crazy guy.

Yeah, yeah. I reckon you two are fans, by the way.

The Turn of the Frogs Gay. That's that guy. And he's selling. He's got a supplement brand. Like, how do those two things go together?

See what I mean? Like, and he'd be making so much money off it, I reckon 100%. If you reach enough people. It doesn't matter what you're selling. Yeah.

People want to support you and be a part of what you're doing. And if you. You get to describe what the avenue is for that. Which is amazing.

Yeah, that's right.

Are you monetizing any other way, Benny, outside of like horse racing, like, have you thought about doing like, you know, apparel or merch or like any other, like selling milk, like, you know, have you thought about anything else outside of your vertical?

No. Well, I, I'm talking to like a. A company that works with influencers to ants. My answer, launch strengths. But there's so many laws about combining liquor and gambling. There's so many laws. Especially Australia US would probably be fine. So I might launch like a non alcoholic, like a sparkling water or a.

Energy drink, something like that. But it's a bit too early because I'm not really. I don't think people resonate me with energy drinks, for example. So at the moment I'm trying to like plant the seed. I drink energy drinks so it'll come off a bit more naturally and a bit less of a sellout if I do kind of go down that route. But you need to plant the seed early that you are actually genuinely interested in energy drinks or sparkling water or something like that. Yeah. Otherwise you just look like a sellout. Yeah.

Yeah. Start putting them in your video. That's how you get jacked up.

Yeah, that's the plan.

Yeah.

Like 50 Cent ended up doing that where he took. Instead of just taking the cash for a deal, he took equity in this small drink company, Coca Cola came, bought it for billions and he's like, what the fuck? Like, didn't expect that to happen and he made like half a billion or something. Ridiculous.

Yeah.

What do you model your journey or your like personal brand off anyone else? Or are you feeling like you're just doing this and figuring out as you go, like, do you have a vision of where you want to get to with this?

Oh, I'm going to ride this affiliate wave as long as possible, money wise. Yeah. Tim Narki Was kind of like my guinea pig, if you will. As much as I completely nicked the idea off him, I noticed his engagement dropped drastically once he stopped. Like, I was going to stop in November, but then I noticed that Tim Narkey's engagement plummeted after he. After he stopped doing it. That's doing his normal stuff. So now I'm like, you can't just stop your best content. I'm going to stop. I think it'll probably become illegal eventually. What I'm doing. There's. There's talks within the government to stop pretty much documenting massive bets to. Because it normalizes it and stuff like that. And I told my brother, like, there's. There's talks within the government to do this. And they was like, why don't we just save time and call it the Ben Scarf rule? Like, are we serious? This is clearly never been spoken about before. You, like, let's just save time. Let's address it. Like, just call it the Van Scaffold.

That's so good.

I. So, you know, I'm nowhere near as big as you on Insta, but, like, even getting to 50k, I found that consistency is a big one. And also, like, I create content on crypto. Right. If the crypto market is down, the engagement drops off a cliff. Crypto market's pumping.

It's.

It's flying again. So, like, I have more of, like an industry momentum, I think, where, like horse racing, for example, I guess it's like, it's pretty consistent. Maybe, like, know, spring carnival, whatever, things are up. But like you said, like, when you've got bigger and bigger bets and it's nuanced, like Tim Naki, everyone's like, let's have a look at the blackjack hand. Like, you're really excited to see how it goes. Like you.

Yeah.

Then I guess, like you said, interest probably tapers off at some point.

Has to. Yeah, has to. My engagement's not plateaued, but it has to drop.

Yeah.

You can't keep the hype up for as long. Even if your contents are unbelievable and it stays unbelievable. Like, it just. It has to plateau a little bit. So at this point, it's kind of more about maintenance than anything.

Yeah. And with the business model just sort of going back to that. Did you ever think about going like, so like this? In my opinion, two real models, you can go with like an info or, like, influencer business. One is like affiliates or the other one is like, you know, you build your own product and do like a subscription base, for example. Like a tipping service. Like did you think about doing that route?

Yeah, I actually sell a tipping service as well, but it's a pretty small component of the business. It's. I also split it 50, 50 with someone. He's like an analyst that feeds me beds. Yeah. I don't really dig through the form anymore. He's going really well. Like the tipping service is. It's going pretty well, but it wouldn't generate nearly as much as the affiliate model. Yeah. So naturally my time doesn't. Doesn't take up much time for me anyway. Kind of just kind of run it through my brand.

Yeah. And do you do this every day? The content creation used to be every.

Day at the start. For the first six months I was genuinely like every day. Just like I had a bit every single day. Now it's like twice a week. Once you get to. Once you get to become an established brand. Posting every day doesn't. Isn't as necessary, I was gonna say.

Because there's two components there. One is you're on the hamster wheel. Always having to create content every day and then very large bets every day.

Yeah.

Are gonna be huge. And how are you finding the content creation game? Do you find it grindy? Are you still enjoying it? What are your thoughts around that?

I wouldn't say. I don't know. It's hard to say. Like.

I wouldn't say I ever enjoyed it funnily enough. Like I just knew it was. I think creating content as a personal brand is almost like a cheat code to making money. Like it's actually. It's just a hidden gem. In 2025 we spend more time on our phone than ever before to get your face in front of them and stay relevant and stay front of mind. If you can stay front of their screens, you're still gonna stay front of their mind. And that's the easiest way to sell. I wouldn't. I would go as far to say that I never really liked creating content. I probably enjoy it more now just cause it's a bit more rare. It's like two, three days a week as opposed to every day constantly. Definitely more fun. I'm just more relaxed and stuff now. Cause it's a bit less pressure on me to post every day and stuff. I'm just kind of saying the flight side of it these days.

Yeah. We feel a lot more comfortable with Ben and Bergs and if we don't feel like doing it, we just call it off for that week. Do it another week. Yeah, but Ben. I know. Yeah. Sorry, Simpson. You find it quite like you have to do a lot of content, mate, and it's quite difficult.

Yeah, I think, I think you've got two types of content, right? You've got educational or you've got entertainment. You know, and I think, you know, Ben Scarf is far funnier, more entertaining than I am and, and if I did entertainment, it'd just be absolute piss take. So like on the educational side, like being in the crypto space, it's more about delivering insights and simplifying and educating and doing like tutorials and market updates and things like that, which is okay in the crypto space because it's ever evolving. But like as a content creator in the entertainment space, you've got to constantly be coming up with new ideas, right? New, creative, new ideas. Especially like comedy, like there's some awesome content creators out there, but you got to think, like, must be hard to keep coming up with new ideas and keep people like on the hook. Like, have you thought, Benny, like, about different styles of content? Have you thought about going like doing a YouTube channel? Like, have you thought about going any bigger or you just going to stick at what you're doing right now?

Eventually, yeah, eventually. It's hard to. It's just so much regulation. I'm just kind of making excuses. You could, you could argue with this is the regulation is just so bad that. Yeah, it's getting worse as well. Like YouTube, I. My videos are so heavily edited, like I can't mention so much, I'll just get fined. Like it's bizarre. So YouTube channel. Yeah. I can post like a long form but then I'm just cutting everything anyway. So yeah, I'm gonna have to switch it up eventually.

But at the moment I'm just kind of riding the wave. Yeah, yeah.

And so we've got, in your kind of day to day, you do the content creation and placing bets and everything like that. Are there any other parts of the business you have to do? Like you have to interact with followers, work on deals, those kind of things.

Not, not really. Like the business model kind of enables me to just have a lot of free time because if you get enough, if you get enough videos out, the videos just kind of work in the background and you just kind of get followers as you go along. Even old videos are still circulating. So even day four, day five, day six, they're still getting followers every day because I guess that's just how it works algorithmically, if that's. If that's a word. So as long as you're Getting links out do you to your affiliate stuff. It kind of works by itself. So I'm gonna work my physical health like that.

And with the affiliate side like you you'd be making like an obviously enough to live on. Like you're not. Do you know you don't have any other income. Like that's like. Yeah.

Full time job. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah going really well.

What would your actually before. Yeah we got that. What, what like what tips? Like someone starting out or wanting to build a personal brand. Because I also totally agree like the Alex Hormozi, the Gary Vee like all that stuff like personal brand. I think 100 number one most valuable thing you can do. Totally agree. What would your tips be to someone that maybe hasn't started yet and is wanting to create a personal brand because it's becoming a very saturated space as well. Right. Like I agree it's. It's very hard to stand out. Like what would your insights or feedback or just lessons learned you'd be able.

To provide someone pull the trigger. Like there's so many people who sit back and they wait for the perfect idea and they, they try to find their niche and whatever. Like just pull the trigger. I've never ever in my life seen anyone post every day for six months and fail. If you post every day, even if you something you're interested in, whatever. If you post every day for six months just your thoughts, you will 100% gain followers. You'll get better at your content. But the only thing that's stopping you from getting better at content is posting content. It's the only way to improve. You're not going to pick up day one and be good at it, but I just do it and it's really daunting at the start and then you get used to it and you realize no one really cares and you'll probably get a lot of hate at the start. Once you get past the hate, even the haters kind of become your fans. They can't help but like you.

Just pull the trigger.

I love that. I think so many people are too scared to post anything in in case of like the, the comments or the feedback or the insecure, whatever. And like the reality is no one gives a. Everyone else got their own problems as well. How do you deal with the negativity Benny? Like as you grow like you know even me in my space I always think like 1 to 5% of people are going to hate you. Right. So 1 of 1 to 5% of like 100 people is like 5 people. Right. But at 200,000, 1 to 5% is a few people that you know probably don't like. You like, how do you deal with that? It's like water off a duck's back. Do you think about it?

Whatever, it's just free marketing. Like I genuinely, it rattled me at the start. Yeah. Sort of. Now I'm like, I love this, this is brilliant. You know how many people tell me, I just go straight to your comments because I love seeing the hate. I'm like, good. Like bring it on. Like all you do is skyrocket my engagement. Please keep going. Yeah, seriously, please keep going. It's just the most free marketing you'll ever get. It's also just.

People don't hate on unimportant people.

No one, no one comments like blasting unimportant people. All it is is just a reminder that you're actually doing meaningful.

I like that.

Like.

Single someone that you know.

No one.

They'Re unimportant. Right.

Think of someone you know who's unimportant. You don't hate them, you don't love them, but you don't really have an opinion, so you don't really give them much thought. If they started doing important shit, you'd probably have a lot more polarized opinion on them. Yeah. So just. And the whole quote of you'll never meet a hater doing better than you is the most true thing of all time.

Yeah, I love that.

It's just, it's so true. Again, you'll never click on the profile of someone on you in the comments. They're always Anonymous or like 250 followers private account.

Like.

Yeah, yeah. Every single time without exception. Yeah.

And the wildest thing is they're probably the most engaged people in your content because they'll rock up every time. They'll come every single time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's funny because when you really think about the mechanics there, if you're worried about these people posting, you're the one going out, creating content and uploading it and they're waiting for it to be there and they're commenting and wasting their time commenting crap on your stuff and giving you free marketing and more wild.

It's crazy. Like.

It'S beautiful. Really.

It's a lovely machine. While we're on, like fans and haters, how now that you're insta famous, how is your day to day kind of changed? Like do you get recognized in the street or people come up to you?

Yeah.

Tell us some stories.

Oh, there's a lot.

This was last week. I was in Adelaide. I think it's my favorite so far. Like, there's a lot going around and there's. I was in the Adelaide, and I was with Mark Taylor and about 30 others. We're in a big golf tour, and this guy comes up to me at the pub. Ask for a photo, whatever. And then he's walking away with his mate, and he goes, mate, this is the best day of my life. I met Mick Fanning at the golf. I met Tubby Taylor at the pub, and now Benny Scarf at the pub.

I was like, that's a good three.

What the is wrong with the world? The world has gone officially mad. Like, to be grouped with those two, it's bananas. Like, arguably the greatest surfer to ever leave 9, 000 test runs. Some kind of bets on Instagram. I've got you serious. Find a better hero. You need some more. You need some better role models, brother.

How good, old mate.

The punch.

The shark T tub that's always on tv. Like Instagram.

Oh.

Oh, frame that, mate. Give it to me in a drink. Drink it all day long. How good is that?

I could not believe it.

Simpson just gets yelled at. Like, people from the car just scream at him.

Oh, dear. Yeah, but, like, when the market goes down, I'm just, like, the most hated man. But when it goes.

Benny, what. What does your missus think of all of this? Like, you know. You know, you've had some shots where you've had a few losing, you know, a bit of a losing.

We broke up about a month ago. Way to go, Benny. Good on you, mate.

Thanks, man.

Just.

Just. Just in our home that we built together, you know? You know.

Oh, God.

I just have to. I only have to walk around my house to relive the memories with her.

Good on you, mate.

Well done.

This is every day with Simpson just constantly putting his footage.

Who is this cunt?

Oh, mate, I'm gonna leave the podcast, boys, thanks.

Oh, man.

Hang your head in shame, you.

I'm so sorry, mate.

That's gonna make an epic clip.

That's gonna be so good. Conflicted pain, to be fair, so.

Oh, okay.

Oh, geez. So if we. If we look at this in a broader kind of way, with the lifestyle that you have and the content that you're creating, does that make it more difficult for relationships and having a partner?

Wait, sorry, can you repeat that?

So with your.

It does, apparently. So, yeah. Chris on podcasts remind you of it, because people.

People don't factor this in. Like, when you go on an endeavor like yours and you create a lot of content and you become insta famous and you're known for certain things that can impact your life and your relationships and make it more difficult.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely, I'm trying to get personal business, like very separate in that regard. Like I would never. More just like for her safety and too like I would never post her on Instagram and stuff and not cuz I like wanted to be single or anything. Like.

More just like.

Well, I get messages, death threats like every other day. Imagine they found out her Instagram, she'd get blasted with messages being like, you know, you have shit. Like. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I, I would never do that. In terms of like having relationship, it doesn't really make too much difference. It's hard to maintain a mystery. It's hard to, it's pretty hard to maintain mysterious. But yeah, conversely you got 200k followers, you know what I mean? Like.

It has its perks, it definitely has its cons as well. You've mentioned it's also hard to like mask how much.

For example, you're at the bottom now you're at the pub, like you're out to dinner with someone. There's definitely an expectation like you can't hide that you have money. If some people, if someone has money, like it's very easy for the general wealthy person to kind of mask it off. When you have to publicly announce that you made $40,000 yesterday. It's very hard for people to not view you differently. That's what I've noticed, 100%.

But.

Yeah, yeah. Ultimately like relationships, it's kind of doesn't make too much of a difference. I guess.

People think it's you just click your thing. Like you get 200k followers, just click your fingers and like women stuff, women start like, like just banging on your door trying to get in your house. Not. No, no, trust me, no. It's also gambling. Like gambling stuff is arguably a woman repellent.

Like a fly spray.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seriously, it's like, oh, like oh, you're famous. What for gambling. Oh, Anyway, see you later, loser. Anyway, see you later. Yeah, yeah.

This is what Jordan Peterson was talking about. This like it's something like in gambling, 99% are men and it was these innate drives that they had to be successful, get ahead quickly, all of these kind of things. So for the people out there with the following. Yeah, especially in like gambling, women won't necessarily throw themselves at you because it's all dudes. Like majority dudes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

When I'm at my business, I was like, I am in crypto. Like, this is like we got the same gambling, the biggest red flags.

100%. 100%.

So I worked for 20 years in like a hospital doing IT stuff, right. In research data. Very respected. And the last three years I've been in crypto. And when people ask me, they're just like, oh, he's a degenerate, you're a drug dealer, you're this, you're that. It's like instantly you just instant turn off.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Or they just go like, they instantly label you with so much stuff as like crypto or gambling. Like, oh, well, assume you, you know, assume you love guns or like just assume you're like some ultra far right wing activist. Yeah, that's what I notice. Yeah.

And they think I like ultimate freedom. No government, no nothing. Military.

Yeah.

Always. We're like, come on, you know?

Yeah, instantly I'm a trumpet.

There is a middle ground. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I was like, I'm not particularly an ELO fan, but like, you posted.

This thing on Twitter.

It would have been a month or so ago. It was like a meme. He goes, oh, my knee hurts. And someone goes, which one? Your left or your far right?

That's someone. As soon as you say, I'm into crypto, that's so good.

I'm back to the money side. Ben and investing. Like, how do you. So you signed up as a member collectorship recently. Thanks again. That's awesome. I know crypto hasn't been probably that crash hot in the last few months, but how do you think about investing outside of, you know, in sort of the sports betting? Like, do you. Are you in any other markets? Is it just crypto property?

I've got a little bit in shares. My dad's a professional share trader. He has been for like 20, 25 years or so. Before that, he was a professional gambler. So it's actually not that different really. Like, professional investment for pretty much his whole investing for pretty much his whole life. I pretty much just follow him to the T. It's like I don't trade as actively naturally. Like he's spending 30 hours a week on that. I'd rather myself, but.

But he's. I pretty much just follow him. And obviously naturally it does pretty well.

I try to not spend too much time on it, but shares like bit of property.

But I want to get a lot More into crypto just I see a lot more long term future in crypto as opposed to anything else really. Yeah.

Do you find your mates and stuff like.

I think Western rage, roughly, like do you find your mates sort of in that space, in the crypto space or not really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's definitely a younger thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my dad, I guess the shit's worth about crypto is 67 now. He just cannot wrap his head around it. Like he's literally been professionally investing for 45, 50 years or something professionally and he just still can't do it. He's still like this, like this is stupid. It's a fad. It's like it's about to be a 20 year fad. It's a pretty long fad, mate. Like.

Oh mate. Do you find there's any like crossover between your audience and a crypto audience? Have you ever noticed anything in a.

Lot of different crypto? I think that.

Crypto investors, you get some degenerate crypto investors and you get like a lot of sharp ones. Most people who love gambling, you pretty rarely find a really sharp guy who's like a really sharp investor. Otherwise they probably wouldn't be gambling.

Sort of maybe the degenerate crowd of crypto, the ones who just love betting on altcoins. Yeah, that's about the only crossover I can see. Like, I can't imagine that some sort of like 10, 15 year long term future, the focused guy would have a massive interest in gambling. I can't imagine. So I'm not, I don't know. We're all, all young men are gamblers at heart, generally speaking.

We're all Australian. All gamblers.

Exactly, yeah.

And you, you figured out something amazing that takes people decades to figure out. And I want to know how you came to this. So the first one is doing having a business where it gives you a lot of time, freedom and you can use that time to work on whatever you want. And then also when that business throws off cash flow, investing that in assets that are going to grow over time, it's very rare that people have both of those. How did you get to this place and how did you figure it out?

Partially luck, but partially hard work, like for the first as much as I do next to all now when I wake up, first six months I was working like genuinely really hard. Like if I didn't have a video out that day, I'd like my anxiety would go through the roof. That's like, it's just how you Gotta be like, if you want to be successful, it's bad luck. If you want to be normal, go be normal. But if you, you need to undertake some sort of anxiety and risk, massive risk if you want to be extraordinary. So I guess how have I worked it out? I'm not pulling the trigger. As I said.

Hard work.

Ish. More just different work. I work definitely. I wasn't grinding out for 60 hour weeks like some people, but I was definitely working smarter. I was getting in front of camera when I didn't want to.

Doing things I don't want to do. I know it sounds like a cliche, but it's very true.

It's reality.

Yeah.

Because the very, the things you're doing is very high leverage work. So where you can create content, distribute it and it's on the Internet forever, you can repost it and then investing all that money is making money while you're off of the beach or something like that. And once you get to that point. I know I did, I have a very.

It's awesome that you've made it but it's also very awkward for me at least because none of my mates were like that. So while I have that lifestyle, they're working very hard or they don't understand or they're perhaps envious. Do you have that with your mates?

Yes, 100%. Like a couple of my closest mates, they just bet professionally so they kind of grasp the concept of.

Just that it's. You don't work 9 to 5 and stuff. But definitely at the start I was kind of like what do you mean you don't want to get pissed on a Monday afternoon? Like so good. What do you mean you have work? Like this doesn't make sense to me. That's, it's kind of annoying as well. Especially because I work Saturdays as well. Like my biggest day of the week is easily Saturdays. That sucks. When your mates are at the pub by three and you've got a race at 4:30 and you're towy and you just, you just want to get out there like yeah, get all the schoolies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, you just got to deal with it. You just got to accept the fact that pretty much everyone works a 9 to 5 and that's definitely a hit. And oh, I got a race on Sunday. I don't want to be in front of, front of camera hungover. That's the worst thing in the world. Like if you're working, if you're doing Excel for the day, you're like I'll get pissed. The night before cares gives a. Like going in front of camera, like, protect.

Having to film in front of a race. It's. It's the worst thing ever. It's so bad. You can't just pull through. Yeah, it's fine though. Yeah. I'm digressing massively, but. Well, yeah, it's kind of active.

I think that's like one thing, you know, as a solopreneur, personal branding. You've been able to build any. Like you just said, like, you. You've basically been able to like, set yourself up where you don't have to do a lot, like during the day. Like, what, what. What does the day look like? Is it. Is it get up and just do whatever the. You want every day? Like, like, you know, where are you sort of at? On a journey?

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Like, I wake up, I go to. I live about two minutes from Kuchi beach now.

Like, go for a swim and I'll go to the gym. I'll go for a walk, go see my family. Like, go see my nana, have lunch.

Three days a week. I'd have a bet. So I gotta film that. An hour and a half, edit the video.

And I don't go out to dinner, whatever. Do a little bit of work. I'll spend like half an hour on just like crypto stuff or whatever. Just enjoying it. Just enjoying life. Love it.

That's.

Yeah. It took me a while to get to that, where I had time, freedom. I'm like, well, what do I do? And I started feeling guilty, but then I eventually got to the place where when you wake up, yeah, you work a couple hours, but then what do you do with the rest of your time? And whatever you feel.

Yeah, you fill it up pretty quickly, I reckon.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Especially if you squeeze at the pub.

Yeah, you'll make too. Yeah, yeah.

He said Coogee Beach. Which. Which state are you in, mate?

New South Wales, Sydney.

Oh, perfect. Oh, we got one over here in wa. So I was like, oh, yeah.

No, just not Wa. No.

Yeah. Nah, fuck that place. Yeah.

What from a. Sorry. Just going back to the brand deals part, Ben. Like, do you get offered many brand deals or people wanting you to do stuff? I assume you would. How do you choose what you do and don't do? Like, do you have a framework or.

Well, like, the affiliate is making so much money that.

It'S kind of not worth it for me to commercialize or monetize anywhere else at the moment. So I get. I get a casino Email me every five days a week. Yeah. Ask me to do content for them. And. And they're like the budget's 3,000. It's like don't worry about it. Yeah. Like I stand that. I don't expect them to take it to. Sorry. To up their price to something stupid. Yeah. But for me it's just not worth monetizing at the moment. Anything else like once my affiliate dies, maybe it can't last forever. I can't maintain this level of engagement. The engagement and sign ups are pretty much directly correlated. Yeah. And I won't be able to maintain it forever. But eventually someone come along. I want to move to the US eventually.

That the US gambling market is just going bananas. Yeah.

It's going crazy because they weren't able to do that not that long ago. Right?

Correct. That's right. Yeah. Well like it's. The US gambling market is kind of like the Australian gaming market but 20 years ago. Like Australia market is going the completely wrong way in terms of if you're in it, if you're in it just because mainly taxes and regulations, regulation just getting worse and worse. So heavily regulated. All they're doing is implementing more and more laws. Whereas the US is just a wild west. Like they've now legalized gambling in about 50 of states. It's getting a lot. It's just, you can say whatever you want. There's no black and white messaging on everything.

It's a lot. Also the wealth disparity like the Australian gambling market and just gambling markets around the world is dominated by about the 1% of biggest losers of gambling. The wealth disparity in the US is far worse in the US than Australia. So that 1% who are gambling are losing so much more money. There's so much money, so much more money to be made on the other on the other end of it. So over the next 10 years I reckon the gambling market in the US will just be an absolute powerhouse.

And from your side, who is able to monetize off like user acquisition? Is there any other models that in Australia the bookies can offer or is it only like CPA on sign up? Like do any of them offer like percentage losses or anything like that?

Some do. Some do. It's pretty rare.

Is it legal?

It is at the moment.

Okay.

I don't know how much longer. I'd give it a couple years. Yeah.

Did you think about going that that model? Like do you think you'd make more money on like percentage trading volume? Because I know that's what crypto does. Right. Like usually get like if I sign someone up, not that we do this, but if you sign someone up, you get a percentage of all their trading fees. You get a big whale and then all of a sudden you're making like heaps of money.

Yeah.

You know, did you think about that versus the CPA model?

Yeah, probably. It's hard to, it's hard to say what will make more.

Yeah, true.

Depends if you sign up a few big whales or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Sign ups are a bit more stable. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

But in the US definitely Simpsons fascinated by the US for market development for similar reasons. Markets more than 10 times bigger and they've actually got regulatory clarity or better, more favorable regulation for crypto.

Yeah.

And it just seems like these kind of things are heading to those really free markets and there's insane opportunity there.

Yeah, yeah. So definitely.

Yeah. And so Simpson, like when you went over there recently, mate, what did you see in the US in terms of like crypto and what's happening there? Because I think that's a really good parallel to how other markets operate.

Just capitalism times like 100 versus Australia. Like it's just everyone's got a business, everyone's tech focused, everyone's grinding. You go down to Miami and every billboard is like Binance or Coinbase or OkX. Like it's all crypto, like and there's just way more money there. Like Benny said, like the, the top 1% is, is, is massive over there. There's huge amounts of money and there's 400 million plus people over there versus 25 or 30. It's just astronomical. You can't get your head around how big it is.

100%.

That's super exciting, man. Jeez. So that might be your next thing, mate. Heading to the States, building it all back up again even in the same space of, of gambling. Because yeah, it's, it's very difficult in a business when you kind of hit that plateau and especially during like in your primary marketing channel and then facing regulation as well.

Yeah, it's tricky. Also the horse racing is very big in the US. I think it might be in 10 years, but kind of go shift to UF sports. The only thing I really bet on is US sports and I have no idea. So I'm gonna have to find a way. I guess that's just being an entrepreneur, you just gotta adapt, figure it out.

Yeah.

Awesome, mate. Berg, do you have anything else?

Yeah, I'm just, yeah, I'm excited like. So earlier on, like you're on this path and you're a solopreneur and you've got content creation around gambling and we sort of asked you like what's kind of next?

It's a difficult question to answer but what do you think is next for you? Or will it always be some form of your personal brand and creating that content and those channels and you'll kind of discover it along the way?

Sounds a bit hypocritical but I'm going to knock personal brands. This is the one con I have. You just can't sell it. You can't sell a personal brand. It's just tough. Like I'm saying.

I'm seeing businesses getting sold. The Australian, in the Australian gallery marketing sold for like 15, 14 million and stuff. And I hear about how much turnover they're doing. I'm like, my clients are doing half of that. Like theoretically this business is worth 7 million. But like you can't just sell Benny scarf, you know what I mean? So ideally I'd like to move away from, from the personal brand at some point to start a business that has nothing to do with me, to make it a lot more sellable. And you know, your brand can also be tarnished overnight. We all have our skeletons, boys.

You're one too many skewies away from.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I get a bit, yeah, I get a bit insta frenzy, insta happy sometimes after a few beers. But.

I would like to definitely get away from a non personal brand at some point. I'm not sure what that is, what it encapsulates, but.

If you thought about.

Creating your own bookie or something like that.

I wouldn't invest the sand to the Australian gambling market if I'm honest. Yeah, just still money be made but it's just going the wrong way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is a similar thing that we've faced in the past where we had an influencer which was the head of the company that didn't work out. So then we tried to make it about the research team but then they needed a face that they could trust. So Ben became the face. But then if you're going to sell the business, you'll be handcuffed in there for the rest of your life making money for someone else. It's a terrible position to be in. So yeah, that's the thing that having a personal brand is a cheat code to get there quickly. But then if you want to expand out of it and not have the business rely on you, a brilliant book is built to sell, which is Doubling down on certain aspects of it and having other people run those.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I'm glad you actually see that. That problem. Unless you want to do this for the rest of your life. And some people are happy to just create content for the rest of their lives. I know I don't. I'm out, bro. I'm out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm already on the way out. I reckon I'm like, fuck.

How long you got left? Oh, about three weeks, mate.

Yeah, Seriously, Honestly.

So, Ben, you got a race in for probably half an hour now. You can tell us because we won't. This won't be aired before the race starts. Who you got? Who we on? What do you feel? You get the. You get anxious, get nervous. Sweaty palms. Talk us for the next half an hour before the race.

Depends if, like, I remember I was. Do you know, have you seen Full Swing on Netflix? Yeah, yeah, I know. When Brooks Kepa said, when you feel like, when you've got it, you feel like you'll never lose it, you don't have it, you'll be like, you'll never get it. Like, I've gone two on the bounce now. I have the thought of this losing in an hour and a half. I doesn't. It doesn't compute because now I'm like, this is what I do. I win. What do you mean? But I remember I went nine lose in a row. Like, you know how low on confidence I was going into the 10th, you know what I mean? How could you be?

How could you be? And so like, okay, let's just quickly double click on that. So nine, nine on the trot. Losses you're down. What are we talking, 90 grand?

100 grand? 60? I was like 60 or 70 within, like two weeks. Yeah.

And is that obviously just money you've saved up and now just.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty nice. Yeah. Right.

Right in the waves. But then when you're upright, you're winning 40k, 30k. Like, you can go into pretty high swings too.

Right? Yeah.

And what. What I've learned in this podcast is that, yeah, you're right, none of that stuff you do on Instagram is.

Is.

Is scripted. It's you to a T. It's just like, you genuinely think this is not going to lose.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to go into it just complete. And you have to go into lives with this. I reckon, like, I go into life with complete delusion, like, delusional amount of confidence. Like, nothing to even warrant it. What a way to live. What a way to live. There is. There is. I wake up and I think I'm like flying. Awesome. And with. With absolutely no reason. And what a way to live.

Where do you get that from? Is that. Is that inherent in you? Your parents like what you just like.

No one in my family. I got a family of six. None of them are like that.

This.

This is quite worth it.

Not like, why the not.

If you're not going to believe in yourself, who else is going to believe in you? Exactly. You need to be stupid enough to believe in yourself.

100.

And just dumb enough to be able to execute on it.

I know it's not now. I would not recommend this, but like my recent role model, Charlie Sheen.

Look at that interview. He's like, how he's. And the girl's going to. How have you survived? He goes, because I'm me. I'm me. I wake up and I go, I'm me.

This is what I do.

Wake up in the morning, I piss excellence. I bang seven gram rocks. I've got tiger blood.

Yeah, Tiger blood.

That's it.

Tiger blood.

Oh.

Is that the same feeling after nine losses on the trot or a little bit different?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need some sort of evidence at least. Just a little bit of evidence to believe at first. After nine loses, going, like, sometimes when I'm editing a losing video, I'm like, you worthless.

So Simpson, I talk about all the time. You're either a God or an absolute piece of shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, when your mood is completely dictated for the day on whether a horse runs fast or not, it's wild.

Whether the market's going well or not.

Yeah. Seriously. Like, you have no influence on whether the market's doing well, whether a horse runs fast. But this completely dictates my mood. I know. This is the way I live.

Bergs. I couldn't explain it better myself because burgers is like, why do you let the market dictate how you feel? Like, what do you mean? This is. This is life. It's green or red.

Exactly. Yeah.

100 makes sense.

Yeah. My dad was a professional gambler. Like I'm just even winning. He could win or lose a hundred thousand in one day. How could that not dictate your mood? Yeah. And all that the only.

Yeah.

Like it's a part of it.

That's so funny. Benny. This has been phenomenal, mate. How can we all find you online? Is there anything else you want to leave us with? Our audience? Yeah. Any words of wisdom?

I'm happy. I'm good as gold. Yeah, I'm good as gold. Yeah. Don't listen to me the last hour. Don't listen to a word.

What's your Insta handle? So people can find you, mate?

Benny, scarf. Actually, don't follow me then I have to put an extra 5 cents on.

I was just thinking, if you're following.

Me already, unfollow me.

I'm gonna go and like buy those chief followers and just like send like thousands.

They've all done that to me before.

Yeah, but start putting on like half million dollar bets, mate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Me. Yeah.

And who, who's your bet for today, Benny? We'll follow along.

Yeah. Launceston race three, number five. About 260 now is your Froggy. Let's come in froggy.

Knew it.

280. Yeah, that's it, yeah. No.

Oh, you can't go wrong.

It's not even a favorite anymore.

Great, great.

Knew it. He's got a. He's got a key to lances in that bloke.

Yeah, that's right.

Exactly.

Mate. Thank you so much, that was awesome. Awesome conversation and yeah, best of luck with the personal growth and hopefully come to races, mate. We'll catch up and have a beer.

Yeah, lovely. Thank you.

Awesome, guys.

Thanks. Champions.