32. I Spent $52,000 On Advisors In 2022, Why? On Who? And What Was The ROI

I had a call with an investor. There was three guys, was a VC firm out of San Francisco. I'd never met them before. Delivered the message, delivered the pitch, and within an hour, I closed a $200,000 investment.

Welcome back to another episode of the Ben and Berg show with your co host, Ben and Bergs, your favorite NBA and high school dropout. Today I'm walking through how I spent $52,000 on advisors in 2022. Why did I do it? What did it do for me? Who did I spend it on? And also a business entrepreneurship group Bergs and I are part of called the, literally, you guessed it, the entrepreneurs Organization. Why on earth we are in it, what it is, what we get out of it, and that nor much more. Bergs, how are you doing?

Really well, man. I've enjoyed my first week off. Christmas was amazing. Nice and relaxed and just keen to get into it. Mate, how are you doing?

I'm doing good, man. I'm doing really good. I posted this on LinkedIn the other week and it got a little bit of hype. Well, hype engagement is probably the best way to put it. Basically outlined that, yeah, over the course of 2020, I went back and looked at zero and I'd spent $52,000 on advice, which is a lot of money, right? That's a. It's a lot of money. And you know, that money basically is invested into areas that I can improve personally, which I think is good investment into myself to, to grow myself and, you know, basically be a better, you know, businessman, career, you know, individual, you know, however you look at it, because what I've figured Bergs and what I've learned over my sort of three or four years or five or six or six years now in business and in crypto, is that the best thing you can invest into is yourself. And the reason being is that I've learned that you can't really. You can trust people and you can have faith in other people and you do need to do that, but the only person you can really rely on in any circumstances, yourself. And for you to level up and grow as an individual is your best chance of really winning and succeeding in different areas. And what I like to do is I like to invest into experts, advisors, coaches, strategic advisors, whatever you want to call them, to answer my questions and give me direct advice on how I can grow different areas of myself to get better results. Now, there's four key areas that I've invested for, four key individuals that I've invested in over the course of the last 12 months. Those four are first of all a CEO performance coach. So T, I worked with T the last three or four years.

Now he's, he's a legend.

He's a legend and he's just brilliant in what he does. He's a specific performance coach and mentor and just helps with a lot of things, you know, about being a CEO and running a business. So he's really helped me improve my leadership skills and team management. Now he's on a retainer that sort of fluctuates month to month depending on what he's doing. He also does more strategic work, project work, brand work, helps with hiring, performance management.

You know, he helped with our strategic yearly review. He's just an all round.

Just a smart individual. His background's in corporate work. He's worked with big businesses, small businesses, tech companies. He's just got a really good breadth of knowledge.

Oh, he's crazy. He's worked with, you know, heaps of listed companies. He's been a performance coach on boards. He's just breadth of experience is insane. All of his leadership training and coaching and then perhaps it'd be good to go into how you actually utilize T. So if you have a challenge in the business, how do you engage him? How do you interact with him? What does that look like?

So the engagement I have with T is basically I have the ability to call him anytime, send him a message anytime. We also have a dedicated weekly or fortnightly catch up. Well, bring him a list of things I want to walk through, work through, or I have one specific thing I want to do a deep dive on. But my way of working is just literally being able to throw a voice message. Have we got this problem? Have got the situation. Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you think? It's just so good to get that third person perspective that's not in the business that has a way of looking at something that I might not have that same perspective or he's had experience dealing with it himself. And I found the best advisors are those that give experiences, not advice. Now, yes, T sometimes will see something, give me some advice and I like that. But it's most usually comes from experiences. And that's the best advice because it's knowing someone has been through what you've been through and has had learnings from that, whether it be good or bad, and you can learn from that. Not someone. The worst advice I've been given is from people that have never been through what I'm going through, have no idea and just give you advice based on their, like they get best guess.

That is so important. So the best part is not necessarily giving you the answer. It's giving you context and examples so you can think through the answer yourself. And of course, our exceptions, like if you see someone driving a car into a brick wall, you're going to be like, hit the brake. Like, you know when you can see, when it's plain as day, you're like, no, I'm not going to go through the advice and let you get there because you will crash. Just stop this. This is the reason why. Yeah, but the other things are like, hey, I'm having this challenge with this employee and this is what's happening. And if they talk through. Yeah, well, I've had a similar thing. This is what I ended up doing and it was trash, so probably don't do that. Or I had success over here and you can just use that to think through. All right, I can use those tactics or I can think about this situation in a different way. Or it might even be. I'm still confused. I need to talk to another advisor.

Yeah, spot on.

And just on, just on him. He's a great facilitator as well. So we brought him out to, to Melbourne for our strategy day. And just having someone outside of the business facilitate those sessions was just incredible. Yeah, like this guy has so much training and just knowing what we need and how to get the answers out and put them on the board and use that specific tactic in order for us to do it. Whether it's like post its or a framework or asking questions or just sitting back and saying nothing and let the conversation happen. That is just so, so valuable.

Number two, I have a marketing strategic advisor, so he's kind of marketing focused. So he used to be the CMO of a major company over in Canada. And he's just been phenomenal because he also now works on, he works for VC fund. So he's got so much experience in the world of marketing, branding, sales and also capital raising. So he's really helped me with our positioning, our branding, growth strategies, micro and macro strategies, whether that be like Facebook ads, whether it be campaigns, whether it be how we position the brand, pricing. He's just got so much, you know, wealth of knowledge. I mean, this guy used to have budgets of like 10, $20 million a year on marketing, like you know, just major, major company that he worked for. And I found him on a, on a mentor site and now he's also on a retainer. I work with him on WhatsApp. He's from Canada, just a great dude. Catch up with him maybe once every month for a deep dive. But we tend to work off voice messages. On WhatsApp. I'll just drop him a message and he sends it back. And he's just been a, again, another worth of knowledge with a different skill set and different perspectives. So he's been really good. And he also has a good understanding of the US market, which has helped me a lot, really understand that space as well. So he's been phenomenal.

And how'd you find him?

So I use a company called, it's a website called Clarity fm. If you type that in, it is a really brilliant website. Nothing fancy, but basically it's like a marketplace of experts. So you can search any thing that you want, whether it be, you know, business, sales and marketing, product and design, leadership, public speaking, whatever. And it'll match you with experts or mentors that have those skill sets that you can hire out on a minute by minute basis and you can just get booking a call and, and I met him on that site, we really hit it off, we had a few different conversations and then we just took it offline. And now he's a monthly, you know, strategic advisor.

That's great. And this is the thing you've talked about and I think what you're going to talk about next, the next one on your list.

It seems expensive when you charge. These people are charging $300 an hour, $600 an hour, whatever it may be. But for you to get that knowledge, imagine what you would have to do, how much time you would have to spend, particularly with your next one. So go through this one and about how specific it is because I remember you saying if you just type that into Google for what you wanted, my God, it's not gonna happen.

And by the way, yeah, that's been a real focus. I mean like using people that I really need strategic guidance and help with and, and the ROI of, of, you know, the marketing advice we use is massive. Like this is like product pricing, product product positioning, brand positioning. I mean this is, this is like business changing sort of results, right? This is not small stuff. And the next one, which has had a huge impact over the last six months, was a capital raising advisor. Now I was introduced to him through another founder I met in Austin, Texas this year. He's a weapon, he's out of Boston. Just an absolute, like just, just a gardener machine. And he basically advises you on capital raising. Basically came in a few months into the round and basically just said it was terrible and you need to redo all of these things. The story, the deck, the way you're talking, like, you know, just really was so good.

Just keep it real, mate.

Just keeping it real. Just really spoke my, like, you know, he didn't say it in that way, but that's what he was kind of implying. So spent about a month, we're reworking, had like seven revisions and by the end of it, man, I was like, I completely flipped the whole story, flipped the whole deck. He's like, this doesn't make sense. What are you talking about here? You know, investors don't care about that. I wouldn't share that with my, you know, like. And then I got to the point it was like, it's ready. And literally, like, I think it was the first or second call. I had a call with an investor that I. Those three guys was a VC firm out of, you know, San Francisco and delivered the, I never met them before, delivered the message, delivered the pitch, and within an hour I closed a $200,000 investment.

That is wild. I remember when you called me before you, we actually got that investment and.

You read a book and the book changed your perspective and you got, all of you had these, this advisor as well. And you're like, mate, I flipped it on its head. This is what's happening. And you gave me the one minute pitch and I was like ready to give you money. Like, I made you do the pitch in our all hands meeting so the.

Team could hear it.

And I was like, this is so polished. This sounds amazing. And it completely changed from just two.

Weeks before and, and, and what? I literally, literally flipped on its head, like what I was doing before this guy versus afterwards, completely different. And that is the power of having people that know what they're doing, know how to deliver results and want to help. This guy's super passionate. He doesn't take percentage of capital raised. He's on a flat monthly fee and just wants. Sees, sees the, the vision that we have a collective shift, seeing what we're doing, seeing where we can go and just honestly really excited. And he's been, oh man, you know, I could pay him for the next 10 years, you know, and, and still be in ahead, you know, this, and this is great.

And you achieve your goal of what you wanted to raise. Seemingly achieved your goal because, mate, you're just a little bit shy, just a little bit of money.

You're on this technicality. Mate, I am not bungee jumping for a 10k short technicality when I've signed over a mill. We're just waiting for payment. 9. 9 is in the bank.

So look, mate, look, I'm moving on.

I'm moving on.

No, no, you're not moving on. So look, look, look. You said you're going to raise a certain amount and you said you're gonna do it by October. We gave you an extension to December, you know, because you're Tasmanian and then.

And if you say you're gonna raise a certain amount, say you're gonna raise a hundred dollars and you raise $90 and you've got 90 in your bank. Have you truly raised a hundred dollars?

You have if the extra $10 is signed and it's on its way, so.

But it's not there, Ben. Where is it?

It's on its way, mate.

Okay, how long do I have to give you to. When you call that like a bad debt or. It's never coming, mate. Or is it just go infinitely?

It's coming, mate. It's fine. It's signed.

We don't have to wait. You're trying to get. You're trying to get out of this bungee jump. You've got.

You're trying to come up two and.

A half days, mate.

Just raise a seed round in the most difficult of conditions in the economic downturn. Crypto is in a bear market. Busted my balls for six months and this guy is trying to get me on a ten thousand dollar.

You know, detail of, of a handshake agreement where I have that money signed safe notes signed. Money on its way. And I'm not.

Let's. Let's just say, let's clear this up for listeners. This was a bet you made yourself. I had nothing to do with this drunk.

You set the rules on a dance in Miami at the bitcoin conference, mate. That's.

That's where all good things happen.

Right?

Right. Anyway, all right, fine. You're terrified of Benji jumping. Benji bungee jumping. You're scared. I understand Benji.

Right, next one. Public speaking coach. So I hired a public speaking coach to help me improve my public talks and stage presence. They basically go through all my talks, they help me write my scripts, they review videos of me talking on stage, helping me pitch to different events. And I've also been to a two day intensive course with her over in the US So she really helps me improve my public talking. Is. That's a big focus of me in 2023. And I've only just public. Like I hadn't spoken on stage, you know, prior to this Year and you know, sort of completed my first TEDx talk and you know, been doing some other talks on, on stages and doing a lot more of that. So she's been pivotal in helping me achieve that.

Mate, mate, wait, where is your TED Talk, man?

Still hasn't been uploaded. I got a notification to say three weeks ago it was edited and they're just pending to wait. They did tell us when we did that talk. They said look, the timelines on, you know, on TedX right now is just massive for some reason it's taking so long.

When did you do the talk?

September, middle of late September. So it's been like three months.

Just send the raw files. We'll edit ourselves, mate.

Yeah man. Literally. Anyway, hopefully goes up early next year.

Next one Ben and Bergs pod review so again on clarity.com I wanted an expert, a podcast expert to review our podcast to get some feedback. And you probably noticed the listeners that we've gone from these hour 10 hour, 20 long podcasts are now shorter, sharp at 2030 minute episodes. That's because of some feedback we got from a mentor or a coach. You could say that men on clarity.com now this guy wasn't cheap. He was $6.80aminute. So if you worked it out over, you know that 600. No it's not $6.80aminute is 4:20, something like that. 4410 hour USD. So $603 an hour I was paying this guy to give us some feedback. Now what I didn't realize this guy's actually like proper gun. He runs a company called startups.com and actually owns clarity.fm and runs like a leading startup podcast. This guy knew his and he just reeled it off. He did a lot of groundwork. He listened to the podcast, dug into what we're doing and just reeled off all this feedback and that was a real game changer for us. Bergs and I have implemented that now and we're already seeing sunny to see results. The episodes are flowing better. We're getting more the point, we're starting to grow more. It's really been phenomenal feedback and for like half an hour of his time. So 300 it will change the, the results, massively change the trajectory of this podcast.

Even now, like we haven't even implemented half the stuff that he said. But the things we have like recording one episode but chopping it up and having breaks in between and just catering it for specific audiences, not mixing all those audiences together, it is, it just feels so much better when you're producing it and then the results are better as well. And yeah, you're paying that 300 bucks. But this guy listened to multiple episodes for free before we actually paid him for that. And if you think about just that information we had, it's, it's incredible and it is totally worth the money.

Yeah, totally agree. Next one is Tinder coach. So if you haven't listened, I can't remember exactly what episode it was. Burks, I'm not sure if you can remember.

A couple episodes ago, a couple episodes.

Ago I was speaking about how sort of, you know, single as of about six or seven months ago, started to get back in the old, the old Tinder game. I was like, oof. This thing seems a bit of a tidy up. Not entirely sure what the best, best practices are. So I hired, hired a coach to help me with my profile and being seeing phenomenal results. She also gave me, I forgot she gave me so Tinder and she also gave me bumble and hinge.

I'll get to that later if this doesn't work.

And you know, it's just been. The results have been, you know, much higher than I'd say would be normal for me pre, pre relationship. So she helped me with my profile, look through my photos. She used to work at like a Tinder company. So she knows the algorithm, knows what works well, knows how to do the profile. Like you know, and I paid, I can't remember. 150 bucks, 200 bucks.

Crazy.

And it's just like, it's like a business, right? Like you like acquiring leads. Would you hire an expert to help you acquire more leads or try and do it yourself and you don't really know what you're doing. Exactly. I know which one I'd choose.

And we fail. We always think that professionals are very expensive, but for 150 we don't realize that not everyone is like us. They don't live in Australia or the States and are all expensive. Some of them could be in Eastern European countries or South American countries and they work remotely for these massive companies and then they just go out on their own and they earn more even though it's cheap to us because 150 bucks. How many hours would they have put in and then how many hours is it going to save you? It's incredible.

And the last one is a LinkedIn coach. So I also hired a LinkedIn expert before I started my LinkedIn strategy to get some feedback and guidance on how to grow LinkedIn. And you can see as the Results I. We shared in the other episode, couple episodes ago. Yeah, I've had over 120,000 impressions in the last month. And he basically walked me through a content strategy and he looked at my profile. We've updated my cover photo, updated my, like, SEO on the. On my LinkedIn page, because I didn't even know LinkedIn had SEO updated. That gave me a content strategy and now just pumping out content. And one of the biggest things I've implemented was my crypto coffee with Ben, my Monday morning crypto coffee with Ben, which has been a real game changer for my profile and really getting the community.

One thing that really bugs me, and I see this all the time on movies and sitcoms and is I'll have a coffee cup, but there'll be nothing in the cup. You can tell there's nothing in the cup from the way that they're holding it. And a couple of times you've. You just, moose, your coffee, mate, it's gone. And you're holding an empty cup. And I can tell, mate, just put.

Some water or there's been one. There's been one episode in that coffee. I had like three coffees and I was like, me dad's like, shit, I have to do cryptography, man. I cannot have another coffee. So just, I did grab a mug.

The cup just goes really light. You're moving it around. And, mate, you just got to put like a little bit of water or something, because I see that and I'm like, you're fake. Everything you say is fake. It's not real. Just, I don't know, it just gets my goat right now. Ben, you've had a lot of advisors here, and this all sounds incredible. And I think the takeaway for me was you said previously you don't want the business to outpace you. You're a young guy, you're 24, and you want to upskill so you're not left behind. And this is very common where if you have an inexperienced person, no matter their age, or if you have a young person, you surround them with advisors and they grow with them, and they can bounce things off them, and they become like they have a much higher chance of success. The alternate is you've lived a long life. You're in your 50s or 60s, you've got a lot of experience, but you will still need advisors in specific areas because not everyone is great at everything. And the other thing that you said was, you know, invest in yourself. And if you ask people what their best asset is, they'll think to things like my house, this, that, whatever, but really the majority of people, unless you're already wealthy, you've got a couple of mil in the bank, your best asset is your ability to earn an income and that is based on your skill set, who you are, your hard skills, your soft skills. That is the best asset that you have. So investing in that is incredibly important.

Yeah.

And I want to ask you, have you ever had bad advisors and how does that go? Or they all just been cracking?

No, I've had one, I wouldn't say a bad advisor, but I've had some bad advice given to me before and I didn't realize at the time, but looking back now, like really.

It wasn't me, was it? No, it wasn't. You won't name the name, but it made it clear that the, the advice that they were giving was from a place of. They, it wasn't coming from a place of experience, it was coming from a place of guessing. They were trying to answer questions that they had that I had, that they didn't have the answers for. And that was the worst advice I've been given. And it really did, you know, you know, had a time and you know, monetary cost attached to that and I, you know, I'd basically drop that, drop that advisor.

Yeah, that's really important to do as well. Realize when things aren't working and good advisors will say I don't know or you need to talk to this type of person or this is how I would go about finding the answer or this is how I would think about it. Not everyone has the answer to everything. And you're right, there is a time cost. Not everyone's going to be a perfect fit and you have to weed those people out. And I think that's really great advice. And it's the same like when you look for any long term relationship, whether it's your partner or it's a PT at the gym or a psychologist, you have to have that fit with that person. And you also have to realize that that fit is not going to be forever. At some point you might not need them or you might outgrow them as well.

Totally. Last thing I'll add, if you're looking to get an advisor, really head over to Clarity fm. I'm not an affiliate. Not being paid for that, that's just literally what I use. And you can search for somebody with a skill that you're after and just jump on a call with them and just see where it goes.

Fantastic. And just to wrap this up, you Finding all of these different advisors. So you found T. That was actually through me because he was one of my MBA colleagues. He worked for a big company, went out on his own and I'd seen what he was able to do. I knew who he was and you would benefit. And that's actually. I didn't expect it to be such a long term relationship and I didn't actually understand the depth and breadth of the skill sets that he had.

Yeah.

And he is still an advisor to this day, someone I would actually lean on as well. And then you found your other marketing advisor through Clarity FM Y, your cap raising advisor through another founder Y and public speaking. You actually did a course with them and then I'm guessing was that a recommendation from someone as well?

Yeah, it was at a.

Yes.

I can't remember actually. No, I was at an EO event where one of the guys spoke and then I chased up the company, did the course and met her at that event. So. Yeah.

How good is eo?

Yeah, EO is really good.

Mate, we need to talk about this.

Therapy. Business therapy.

Yeah, let's get into it. So how you introduced me to ao. Yeah, what is it and how long have you been in it?

Entrepreneurs Organization is a group of business owners, founders and executives from around the world that come together to learn, network and share experiences to grow themselves and their businesses. And I've been a part of IT for nearly just over two years now.

Yeah, you go to a lot of events. Every time you come back you're pumped up. I learned this new thing. This guy has this business and we need to do this. Some of them are pretty hilarious though, when you come back and you're absolutely jacked and you're like, oh my God, this guy has this sales room. It's like Wall Street. We need to get a sales room.

But it's so excited.

Oh, mate, that's it. And maybe talk about how it's structured like in the. The monthly kind of things and, and what it does for you and what you take to those months, how you have to prepare.

So what's different about it is that it's a. It's a group of people that you catch up with every month. And it's like a.

It's like. What would you call it? I'm not really sure. You just basically catch it, like accountability. Accountability. That's it. It's accountability group. They catch up every month. You go to someone's office and you just share the best and the worst of your life, whether it be family, personal, or business every month and then you'll share experiences, you know, call learn together and you can't sell to each other and you can't give advice. It always has to be through experience sharing and that's been one of the best things. Plus it has also other events where you can go and learn specific things as they pop up and I've been a part of it two years has been brilliant for me and I invited Bergs to their program over in Perth and I mean for you man, sounds like you're loving it as well.

Yeah. So Ben's in the the founder EO and I'm in the key executive program. So for us in terms of training there's. There's heaps of EO events that are on all the time. They get people in to speak and you can go whenever you want. They're the ad hoc ones each every quarter they'll have like a day and the day will be teach you about cash flow, teach you about strategy culture people and these days are phenomenal. They'll have a facilitator in who's just a gun that has run multiple businesses. They've lived it. They talk from experience. You'll sit around with roughly 20 of your peers and this will be the key executives as well as the EO founders like people that have founded businesses and man everyone's problems. You realize they're just different and everyone has problems like the things that you're going through. No one will understand. You can't talk to your partner about it. Yeah your as in your wife or whoever. Talking about it sometimes in the business is difficult because it involves those people. They might be part of the issue. You might not know how to speak about it but taking it to this place is just like therapy. So I've got the same thing where once a month I meet up with four other people plus a facilitator. And the facilitators. He's a mentor. He's been in business for 25 years. Got a cracking business.

And just how he's grown and the things he's had to go through. And you sit down and it's about three or four hours every month you must attend these. If you don't attend two in a year I think you're out. Sometimes there's financial penalties as well. These guys are very serious. And then you have to talk. What is it from? Was it just like from experience? Right. You can't stop. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we go through. We talk about the best and worst things that have happened in our lives and in business and give a brief summary of something that we want to talk about. It's essentially presenting like a business brief or a case, like something that's really been challenging you. And Ben, you actually coached me on this quite well. I'm like, look, I have to take this. How do I do it? And you're like, man, the day before, I just. And the words you use, man, you're like, I just sit down and I just sit with that feeling for about 10 minutes and be like, what is the thing that is challenging me the most or bothering me the most or something that's giving me anxiety or I want to resolve. Right. That is the thing. And you really, like. It's literally just. You go in there, it's like, bang, pants down, have a look. Like that's what it's like. It's literally like, I have. I have a financial issue. We're running out of money. We're going to close in this amount of time. This is what's happening. Or I have this issue with whoever it is, my, my CEO or this subordinate or colleague, and I don't know how to deal with it, or my sales team isn't running right. And people just go into it about the fear feelings and the dynamics, and then we just talk about it. Like, the facilitator will talk from experience. We'll talk about our experiences as well, things that have worked for us, how we would tackle the challenge. And 99% of the. Of the time, well, actually, all the time, you walk away feeling better. But 99% based on those experiences, you will have an actionable strategy to take away and implement, and you just feel better from talking about it with those people who understand. You feel more bonded. You just feel like the problem's not yours now it's shared. And just talking it through in that way, you will write like a page of notes that you can take back and tackle that problem. It is just phenomenal.

Yeah, totally agree, man. You hit all the. The points there. That's. That's why we're part of it. It's not cheap. It's not a cheap program, but it's bloody good. Really is good.

I think it's cheap. I think it's very cheap. So what is it, like three grand a year?

Yeah, three. Three or five. Yeah. Plus sign on to two and a half. Yeah. So in terms of like, in terms of like a program, it's pro. It's not the cheapest, but in terms of the ROI of what you get Back on that money. Massive.

You know, it's insane. It is insane. Just the mental load you can shed from going there.

Yeah.

And. Yeah, and working through your hardest problems. And you can call these people anytime. We've got WhatsApp groups as well. You can meet up whenever you want, just having those people. Even the insane challenges that you've had over the last year and a half in business.

Yeah.

And going, no, we've got an expert for that. They'll hook you up with a lawyer, they'll hook you up with a specific person. I've used them before. Yes. They cost a lot, but they'll fix your issues. How much is that worth? Just to get the right people? And in terms of sheer cost, let's look at other things, like the company directors. Course I did. That's five days. That's about 10 grand. Right. An MBA unit, just one unit is about six grand. If you do a course at AIM or wherever else. It's. It's all in that ballpark.

Yeah.

And this is a really. It's a no group either. Like, you don't have to do weird stuff. It's not a cult, it's business. People getting together, talking about things and helping each other. And it is just phenomenal. I love it, man.

Yeah, brilliant, mate. That's a. That's a big testimonial.

Yeah, mate. Mate, we should just give this to eos.

Yeah, you can use it.

And honestly, in terms of. In terms of personal growth, out of all the courses and things that I've done, this has given me the most. Because every month I have to take the hard thing and I have to work on the hard thing. And you've even got goals and they'll check in with you on your goals. Like, even the cash day, they're like. I'm like, this is our cash position. This is what we're doing. And you do some ratios, you'll do some things away. I'll find 1% here, there. And I'm like, yeah, I found some things. Yeah, it's great. And they're like, no, no, no. What did you find? I'm like, oh, okay, well, this is the ratio.

No, no.

How much is it? What's it going to make in you and 20 people you've never met before? And you're saying it's going to be $20,000 difference? We've got this deficit. This is what's happening. You're literally talking about the deep, dark secrets of your business that you don't want people to know. It is Mate, it is. That is the only way to do it. Yeah, mate, some of the stories are just incredible. Like some people will be like, I've got this big lawsuit. This is happening in my personal life. I'm going through a divorce, I've just had this health issue. And just sharing those experiences are incredible. And the whole thing about this is it's ultra confidential. No one talks about shit. And it is. It is not Chatham House rules, like, which is what you generally have where you can talk about what was said but not who said it. Now you can't talk about shit. Yeah, like that is it. It is just ultra confidence in those people and that is why you have that ability to speak at that level. Mate, it's amazing. The way they've set it up is great.

Yeah, totally agree.

Right, you've got. Hang on, you've got the worldwide one as well. So when you travel you visit the different chapters, right?

Yeah. So I've met people in Dubai, New York, Miami, Austin, L.A. san Diego, Singapore.

Sydney.

Incredible. Yeah.

Wherever, wherever I go, you can just put out a message and EO and people go, yep, I want to catch up. It's wild when you think about it.

It's a worldwide network. It's great.

Get right, mate. We might wrap it up there. Another cracker episode. Hope you took a little bit out of that. And where we spend our money on advisors, how to get an advisor and why it's so important to have them. If you want to level up, if you're loving these episodes or you think you should send this to a friend, we'd love you to send it to them. Or you can leave us a rating or review on Spotify or Apple podcast cast and if you want to give us any feedback, let us know what you like, what you don't like, tweet at us. My name is at Ben Simpsonau and Berg is at Babyback Berg and see you next time, mate.

Amazing episode. Bennebergs. Com. Get amongst it. Catch you next episode, folks.