59. How Music Producer Mason Lister Grew from 0 to 300,000 Monthly Spotify Listeners at 22

As I got older and I was seeing kind of the numbers climb in certain areas, it just made me hungrier to kind of get more of that. It was just consistency, just time in the chairman, working on my craft, and that's all I could really say to anyone out there. You've just got to put the time in. People say that they've got this plan and they say what they're going to do after a certain amount of time. And it's good to have those goals and everything, but it all comes down to just work in the amount of time that you put in.

Welcome back to another episode of the Benneberg show with your favorite NBA and high school dropout. Today we have another wicked guest coming on. Mason Lister, DJ producer, fellow Tasmanian. So there's. How many heads have we got now? We have four here. We have five. Five in total. Mace and I have been mates for a long time, sort of, you know, went to school. What, did we go to school to each other, LC at the same time? Maybe a year apart.

Yeah, it would have been maybe a year apart. Yeah.

But, yeah, fellow Tasmanian. He is now one of the leading, you know, DJ and music producers probably in the country. He's got 300,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. Primarily creates big room techno. He's signed with Hardwell, Revealed Recordings in Amsterdam, displayed all around the world in Amsterdam, Malaysia, a bunch of different places. Had a massive festival here in Melbourne on the weekend. And I just thought it'd be epic to get him on to talk about his story about how he, you know, grew up and started DJing right from 15, you know, playing in front of thousands of people across the world and, you know, 300, 000 monthly listers, mate, is not, not a small feat. So. What aren't.

Oh, dude, it's. I still am pretty blown back when I even think about having those kind of numbers.

So that's a shitload of people. 300, 000 people. That's like three MCG's packed every month.

Yeah. In the last month alone.

In the last month.

It's crazy. And it's weird though, because I look at those numbers and I'm still not satisfied.

I like it.

I know that when I was a lot younger, I would have seen something like that and I probably would have cried.

Yeah.

But, you know, I look at it now and I think that's sick. But I just want more.

Oh, I love it, mate. Getting after it.

Yeah. Yeah, literally.

And you just put out a new song on Friday, Light it up. And how many 75,000 downloads over the weekend.

It's just ticked over 70,000 streams on Spotify since Friday.

So what's the same? Like four or five days?

Yeah, I just listened to it then. We're gonna put it in the show now. It absolutely slams. It made me so happy straight away. Get amongst it, man. This is. It's cracking. It is so impressive, man.

It was really exciting because Spotify do these editorial playlists, they're called.

Yeah.

So before the song comes out, you actually write a pitch to them kind of to ask for their support on the song. And on the first day, we were placed into three of the biggest EDM playlists on Spotify by them. So. Wow. That was. Even to see that kind of support buy a platform like Spotify now is pretty crazy.

100, because there must be so many music producers, right? Everyone's, you know, not everyone, but so many people are like, you know, trying to make their way. So you must be, you know, obviously creating some amazing stuff.

Yeah, well, it takes a long time, man. Like you said. I started DJing when I was 15, but I first started trying to make music when I was about 13.

12.

13.

So how old are you now?

Yeah, 22.

There you go.

So I want to go right back because, like, the reason I got Mason on in the first place was like, you know, although we took different paths early on, you know, I was actually running a business way back when. It was an events company back in Tasmania, and Mason used to play at pretty much every show that he could make. So, you know, you've built a massive following online and you're producing a lot of this music and you're doing amazing things. But I hadn't seen your, like, story from, like, you know, from way back then to now, so I thought it'd be an epic opportunity for you to come on, talk about your drive, what motivates you, how you do what you do. The business behind DJing and, and producing music, the challenges, the ups and downs. Because obviously, like, in the music career and especially DJing, like, I know because I've been in that scene, it's like it is filled with, you know, partying and alcohol and drugs and, like, it's just a crazy world, like, to. To stick at it and stay on, like, you know, the path of, like, just hungriness and getting an after, like, it's huge respect, man, to be able to do that. So do we want to maybe start mate with your journey? Like, how did you start playing when you were, you know, 12, 13, getting into DJing. Why? What brought you DJing?

Well, I always just loved music from. Since I was a little kid. I didn't know why, but it just gave me a different feeling, I think, to most people.

I used to. Or back when I was literally 2 or 3 years old. And I'll be bawling my eyes out in the living room at home. There was this one song that my parents would play, and that was Yellow by Coldplay. And as soon as my parents put that on, I would just stop crying instantly. And that's like. I feel as though that was the first kind of sign that I just loved music on a different kind of level.

Unreal.

And obviously, as I got a bit older, I learned how to play the guitar and was doing all kinds of things like that and sort of styled up for a while. I just went back to playing sports and doing everything that all the other kids at school was doing. Failed my recorder test in grade six, so that was. I. I didn't really think that I would have much of a music future. But then when I got to the end of primary school, it turned into this massive love for dubstep and the earlier sounds of edm, like your Avicis and your Tiestos. And it was mainly Skrillex, who I loved at the start. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Seen him live a few times. How good, mate.

Yeah, no, it's insane. And because I was just. I had a little ipod touch and I was going through the charts on itunes, and I remember he had a remix of Cinema. Do you remember that one by Benny Benassi?

Benny Benassi, Yeah.

Yeah. So I heard that song and just instantly in love, man. And I was all over the Internet just wanting to get my hands on any kind of Skrillex song that I could.

Yeah.

And anyway, after obsessing over him for about a year and a half, my dad was involved in that Breath of Life festival in Launceston. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Skrillex actually headlined that festival in Tassie, in Launceston.

Breath of Life.

Yeah. And this was at the peak of his career, too, back then. Wow. So he was in and out. So as soon as he finished his. His show, he was back on a flight, which I just thought was crazy in itself, but obviously just to see this man when I was such a young kid with so much passion for what he was doing was pretty crazy to me.

But he actually saw me backstage after the gig.

Really?

Yeah.

How did that happen? Through your dad?

Yeah, my dad was there and I was just walking around backstage with him. He was with me the whole time. I don't think I was really allowed to be there if he wasn't by my side.

But he would have just seen this young kid looking at him like, what is this kid doing here? Like, why is he at this festival? And so he come over to me, and I just said, man, how do you do this? I want to do what you do. And he said, download Ableton. And that's his program that he makes music on. So I don't actually use Ableton today. I'm an FL guy. But to have that sort of advice so early in my life was pretty shit.

And you're like, in the flesh, you're seeing this guy. Like, holy shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was nuts, man. And I actually got a photo with him, but it was on my cousin's ipod and he lost it.

Oh, no.

I was pretty shattered about that.

That would be, like, a pivotal moment. Like, imagine meeting Skrillex coming off your hard dubstep set, top of his game. He's got that crazy haircut where it's half shaved, half inside. Insane, man.

Yeah, no, it was. It was a cool experience.

So back in Tassie, you grew up in Launceston. You know the nightlife scene. When did you start DJing? Like, what was your first, like, entry into the sort of DJing scene? Like, was it house parties, things like that?

Early on, a couple of the boys were reaching out to me because I was releasing quite a bit of music at this time, Mainly the bootlegs, of course, popular songs. And that's kind of how I was getting my name out there back then, I think I was in year seven, year eight, and they were reaching out to me and saying, we love your music, but we just think you're a bit too young to be doing this. And luckily, with the Tasmanian laws and everything, after we'd done a bit of research, we were able to figure out that I was actually allowed to be there and play a set. If my parents would come and stand in the corner or if I'd have some kind of security guard that would be watching.

Yeah.

So I actually remember being at school after they told me that I was able to play my first gig. And I was in the computer lab, like, burning songs onto this cd, because one of the boys invited me to his house. Shout out to Gene. Gene Purcell, remember him? And he taught me to mix on actual decks. And I remember, first time ever using it, it just clicked. Like, I just somehow just knew how I was how to beat Match and all those kind of things. So I think having that prior production knowledge really helped with that because I understood, you know, bars and BPMs and everything, so.

And the producing of the music gave you the credibility that you knew what you were doing to get those gigs.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's, I'd say that's probably the only reason why they kind of knew who I was, because I was this young kid putting out a shitload of music at that age. It's not really a normal thing, so.

And you just loved it, obviously.

Loved it, man. I didn't care about the money.

Yeah.

I didn't care about how much I was getting paid or any of that. Like, I just wanted to be in front of people. Doing what? Doing what I love.

That's awesome, man. So that's amazing. So. Oh, you go back, mate.

So I was talking to Ben yesterday. We were doing a bit of prep for this interview and he just casually drops that he used to run an events business.

And I'm like, blown away.

I'm like, first of all, you got the most ADHD guy on a planet trying to run an events Business.

Business.

And then he, he, he drops how you guys actually got together and you were his DJ for some of those events.

Yeah.

Ben, do you want to talk us through what your business was and then how Mason fit in with it?

So I ran a company called the. It was called the Official Sportswear. So it used to be a referee. So the idea was we made referee uniforms. It was going to be called the Official. And then I realized there wasn't that many referees in Tasmania, so I made it for all sports. And then my idea, like when this was when I was 15, I was like, I wanted to make a conglomerate of everything. The official, I was going to make official shoes, I was going to make the official T shirts, like the official everything. Hotel lines, airlines. I was going big. I'll start with sportswear.

It was going big 15. I was like, it, we're going large. But then the next, the, the. This. The next business I started was the official events. And I can't remember exactly how it came about. You know, from what I can remember, like this was when I was 17. Start. I did a. I had my 17th birthday and we had a big party up in, up in a paddock and we basically got like a booth and we had DJs and had this massive night and everyone had a crazy night. And someone approached me a couple of weeks later to host their birthday. I was like, what do you mean? She's like, she's like oh you had an awesome birthday. Can you like organize my birthday for me? I was like okay it like let's do it. So then we went to a. I can't remember where I was like in. I don't know if you remember it was like as an oval about an hour out so like with a church there. I can't remember if you remember Anyway this is like beaten path country Tasmania. Like no, you know, no reception.

It wouldn't be Blessington would it?

Yeah, something like Blessington.

Yeah I've got a story about Tasmania.

Every Tasmanian's got a story of Blessing.

Oh so just imagine Berg's like an old country footy oval basically with like a, like a hall and like no reception and anyway that was where the first party went and it just went off the show. It was just all people were talking about in lances and then all of a sudden everyone wanted. Not everyone. So many people wanted their birthdays hosted by me So I was getting all these inquiries like whoa, like you know this is insane. I want to host everyone's birthdays. So then I was like why don't we, instead of doing birthdays why don't we just host an underage. Because we were underage at the time. Why don't we host an underage party? So the first one was our Hotel New York. Yeah I went around, I was, yeah I think it was 17, 16 or 17, I must have been 16 going around nightclubs during the day to meet with nightclubs and the only person to take me seriously was Joycey, Andrew Joyce. Yeah, Hotel New York and we hosted this first event. It was an underage event and it was insane. It was $10 each. There would have been 4, 500 people show up. It was off the show packed out this nightclub Mason basically headlined it and it was just the most insane thing ever and sitting there then the night going oh my God just made like like three or four grand. What the hell just happened? So then we rolled out the media, the social media and you know was sort of the first step but I don't know if you remember that was like my first realization like music and how like people just want to get out and party and have a good time and like I could never, you know, be a DJ but see you guys up on stage having a bunch of fun. Everyone's having fun. It was epic.

Yeah for sure. And I think you could kind of relate this on. Oh you can definitely relate this to a lot of what you do these days because it comes so naturally for you, but it's just one of those things that you get so much joy out of. Even though it's supposed to be your job, it just. It's such a different and unique feeling to actually do your passion, get paid for it. And obviously, the possibilities are endless. Like, you can go as far as you want to go. You just got to apply yourself to it 100%.

And, like, probably your mates back in the day were thinking, like, what are you doing, Mason? You're always in your room, like, creating music. They were saying the same about me. Like, what are you doing? This official band, you're not old enough to do that. Like, what. You know, how you doing it.

Yeah.

And you just, like, it's not about the money. It's just like, it's. It's intriguing. You're learning, it's fun. You're seeing other people have fun. That's just. It's addictive.

Yeah. And what are those people doing now that we're doubting you?

Who fucking knows?

That's exactly it. Luke Carey. Other people. Yeah. Who cares?

That's it.

So, Macy, you were taking us on your. Your journey. So you've kind of. You've started really young, you've met some Skrillex, you've downloaded Ableton and FL Studio, you've done stuff with Ben. How did your career progress from there? What were your next steps?

Honestly, most of it is a blur, looking back at it. But I suppose as I got older and I was seeing kind of the numbers climb in certain areas, it just made me hungrier to kind of get more of that. I suppose it was just consistency, just time in the chair, man, working on my craft. And that's all I could really say to anyone out there. You've just got to put the time in. People say that they've got this plan and they say what they're going to do after a certain amount of time. And it's good to have those goals and everything, but it all comes down to just work and the amount of time that you put in, especially in such a creative industry, you can't really. You can't really put a timeline on things because you might sit down and make a track that just goes nuts. Millions of streams in one week and, you know, your whole future is set from there. But it might take another five years, 10 years to get to that point, so.

And then how do you think about, like, the quality of your music? Like, I assume it's. It's really like it's got to be a grade to put out. Like how many hours, how many days, weeks would it take to create a track like what you've just put out?

Well, that differs as well. Some tracks happen in the space of two hours and then it's only just, you know, every now and then over the next couple of days, fine tuning it and getting the rest of it done. Some tracks, I've spent 15, 20 hours on it. Some 30 to 40.

Yeah.

But it. I usually find that the ones that come out the quickest are the ones that end up doing the best, really, because it's just like my mind is on fire and I'm able to just snap a track out that quick.

Yeah, that's unreal. And I noticed that you also produce music for other people. How does that work?

Well, yeah, obviously aside to the music industry that quite a lot of people are actually unaware of is ghost writing. So there are a certain amount of artists in the industry that don't actually create their own music and I can see why they do it. Some people might just not have as much of a passion for production or they might put more time into the business and the DJing side of their brand to not really have enough time to actually produce. But I've done a little bit of that in the past where I've either co produced for certain artists or I've helped them write a full track behind the scenes. And basically it's just an upfront fee or you can negotiate, you know, royalty splits for when it's on Spotify and that kind of thing. But there's heaps of different ways that you can kind of go about it.

That's epic.

Absolutely. I like, we just getting back to creating tracks and you know, when you're in a massive flow and it takes a couple of hours or it could take 30 or 40. How do you, how often do you kind of like pump out tracks? Does it take you a while to get into that state and like when the kind of motivation really hits and then you just attack it?

Yeah, well, it's just one of those things that's always changing, man. And I find that anything creative for me doesn't matter if I'm doing music or creating artwork for a song or even creating a schedule of content that I want to, that I want to put out. It's. It all just depends on what's going on in my actual life, what I'm doing in my day to day and how certain things are affecting me. And just like you and me, man, we have those weeks where we don't really feel like doing anything.

Not on.

Yeah. But I feel as though what you have to do is just put the time in. Even if you don't feel like doing anything, just put something down and then come back to it when you do feel motivated. Or there'll be times when I sit down in the chair and they just. It just happens.

So that's unreal.

That's awesome. That consistency of showing up. And I've heard like writers where they get writer's block. And a guy that was on a pod I was listening to, he's like, there's no such thing. Just keep writing, like. And you get the bad writing out of the way, you get to the good writing.

Yeah, exactly.

That's exactly what you're saying. Where it's like, just show up and do the work and you will get success. You'll get to that Good point.

Yeah, certainly. And a bit of a tip that I'll throw out to some producers out there as well is that if you don't feel like sitting down and creating an actual track, a good idea is to sit there and compile some samples that you might want to use in your upcoming tracks or even just work on sound design or creating a lead for your song or just anything like that. As long as you're still doing something that can help you in the future with your music.

Every time you sit down, you don't have to make a track as long as you're just doing something that works towards that, I suppose.

How did you learn to do it, man? It was self taught. Did you have a mentor.

At the start?

I had a mate from Tassie as well who was quite into it and, you know, at a pretty low level. We were both hopping on Skype after school every day and I'd be like, how do you do this and how do you do that? Just asking a million questions, man. And you know, to get to 10pm and he'd say, I have to go to bed now. Like, we can't be doing this. And I'd say, no, like just one more thing. And that went on for months, man. And I've got a lot of time for him even. Even today. Absolute legend of a bloke who. Who I would thank for a lot of what I know today. And that was just the start of it all. But I suppose after that it just turned into consistency and just doing it. Yeah, yeah. Every day. And my dad used to actually get pretty funny with me because he's right into his sports. Like, he. He loves it. And he put me through cricket. He put me through footy. I did soccer. I even went through gymnastics and trampolining, and they just wanted me to do something physical.

But.

But as soon as I picked up my laptop and figured out how to make music, I'd spend 10 to 12 hours in my room on a weekend, and, you know, he'd be mowing the lawn in the backyard, and he'd knock on my window, like, what are you doing? Come outside. Get some sun. And I just feel like, no, I'm just in the zone, dude.

I've, Like, I resonate so much with that because I was the same with crypto. I was, like, building a business. Like, sitting there, everyone's outside. Come outside. It's like, no. Like, I'm, like, right in the building. Like a. A marketing funnel.

I wouldn't do anything else.

During COVID you locked yourself away for a year.

Yeah.

Like, you didn't come out. You were a lockdown, to be fair. But he was just in there building a business. It was crazy.

Yeah.

That's when you just go deep. Right. Like, when you love something so much and, like, time sort of evaporates when you can. And if you can put yourself in an environment. I know you moved to Melbourne, so I want to talk about that, but, like, was. Was you. Were you. So you had so much conviction in what you wanted to do that you wanted to get yourself in an environment where you could just literally do it all day. Distractions.

Yeah, for sure. And I reckon you'll be able to resonate with this as well. But when I was younger, it was easier to get in that state.

Yeah.

Because I wasn't worrying about paying rent or wasn't worrying about this and that. I was just able to do it.

Yeah.

And I think that gets harder as you get older, but you've just got to learn how to block all that out, I suppose. In a creative industry, I think it's a lot harder than probably building a marketing funnel, like you were saying, because that all comes down to just knowledge and. And everything. But when you're actually being creative, I think it can be a bit harder.

Yeah, for sure. If you're gonna be in the zone. What about the industry itself, mate? Like, you know, I was only in the industry for. For briefly. For a couple years. But, you know, we know the nightlife scene that, you know, there's. There's good and bad, of course. Like, how do you stay motivated? And, you know, how do you stay.

You know, I don't know, like you, I, I assume you see a lot and a lot of people probably are taken in different ways. But like, is that a challenge sometimes, you know, staying out late, Like, I know you probably got sets early in the morning, you know, trying to get up and like get back in the creative zone. What's that like?

I hate it, man. Yeah, I hate the late nights now. Yeah, I used to love them, but these days I've found that my creativity relies on a good routine and a good sleeping schedule. And during the week I'm getting up at 5:30, 6 some mornings as of late, I wasn't like that before.

And I kind of set out my days, I schedule them right out. So I say, right, I'll do this from this certain time and then I'll have a break and then back into it. And I actually picked that up from you because I saw that on your Instagram.

Oh, really? Awesome, man.

I've been using that, that Chat GPT. Yeah, yeah, been using absolutely everything, man. Even my schedule I write down. All right, so these are my top three priorities for tomorrow. Yeah, can you please create a schedule from 9 to 5 where I can actually get this done efficiently? And it says, all right, 5:30, wake up. Yeah, 6:00', clock, cold shower. Because I love my cold showers now and then it's like seven check emails this, that and then sit outside for 30 minutes and then it's bank get into it and it's just full focus.

Like I'm so pumped by that. Bergs is a massive AI tech.

So like I love this. I love all the different users for Chat GPT. What I'm actually fascinated about is the, I guess, misconceptions people have about DJs where it's like a party life. You're up all the time and you're like nahla. It's the opposite. You need to be productive, put in hours, look after your sleep and be consistent.

Yeah.

Is that unique in your, in your space is what your style of going about, like getting up, grinding, you know, like scheduling out emails, that sort of stuff?

Well, I think maybe not unique. I suppose there are a lot of artists that are bigger than me who are on planes all the time. They spend two days in this spot and they get two, three hours sleep every night. So I can imagine the schedule is pretty all over the place when you're living a life like that. But in my current circumstances, that's just what's most productive for me.

I think you've got to treat it like a 9 to 5 job if you actually want to be serious with it.

Sure. So you're generating enough income from everything you're doing to basically not have to do any other work.

Yeah, at the moment I am, which is really exciting. Yeah, yeah. I left my last full time job back in August.

Awesome. Congrats.

So, yeah, thanks man. So I've been going since then just finding heaps of new ways to make an income from music, which has been cool.

The fact that like you're so committed and like, I think for a lot of people our listeners probably have side hustles or hobbies they want to get involved in or whether it's investing or whatever, like it doesn't come easy. I think we've all like been through that where it's just, you know, you started so, so long ago. Like it's just grinding and working hard to a point where you can get to the point we can go full time or you know, you know, being able to leave your nine to five. So that's epic. What about, you know, you're going up on stage. Put us like through the feeling, mate. Going in front of 5, 6, 7,000 people on the stage, man. Like I couldn't imagine the feeling, the euphoria like having just. People scream and chant lista like it could be insane. What's that feeling like, mate? Put us in the shoes of that we're never going to do it scares.

The out of me, man. To be honest, it really freaks me out. But you've got to do that to grow in whatever you're doing. Like even sitting here now in front of heaps of cameras and mics and having a conversation like that scares me. But you've got to throw yourself in the deep end and do these things to kind of grow as a person and grow your brand and that's just what you have to do as a dj. Like you're performing and I've always been the kind of person that just is really in my shell. I hate talking about what I do and like my success and everything and it's always been hard. Even at school when people used to play my music in front of me and most of the time they would have been taking the piss out of me. But even people that enjoyed it and genuinely wanted to share my music with me in front of other people like that, I used to hate it and really cringe over that. But it's a different feeling being on the stage because I'm in control of it and these people are here to party and Listen to my music and it's a much better feeling when those people are there to see you as well. Especially in Malaysia. That was my first proper fan experience, I would say. At the end of the gig, I actually went down along the rail and just walked along and people were like, lister List, come take a photo with me. And I've never experienced that before.

Proper celebrity, man.

Yeah, well, I wouldn't even say that, to be honest, but just. I think in Malaysia, they love it in general, seeing someone come from overseas to play at a big festival, they just go nuts for it. So. So you could be. You could literally go over there and hop on a stage and they'd be asking for photos and autographs. Yeah, but that's really cool. I love that, man. I love that whole.

That's insane, that whole feeling.

And, yeah, it made me really hungry to keep chasing that, for sure.

Is that what motivates you to keep growing and, like, building your brand and building a listenership, like being able to make people happy and produce awesome music?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because it was such a fun time going over there to Malaysia, especially in January. And when I come home, I was back in my bedroom. It's all quiet, it's all dark and. Well, I did have a lot of motivation to work on music when I come back, but there are times when it is really stale and I feel like I've got nothing coming up that's exciting. And that's when I'm like, right, I need to make a new song so that I can increase my chances of making it to that stage again.

That's awesome.

And what's that like when you do create a new song? So, you know, back in the day, you'd have a label and they do the distribution, everything for you. What's it like nowadays in the digital age? So you're in your bedroom, you've made a song, it's ready to go. What happens next?

Well, I still am reaching out to my team to organize the scheduling of the song, and lately I've been doing a lot of work with Revealed Recordings from Amsterdam, and that's Hardwell's imprint. So usually I'll have a list of places that I'll send my new song out to and just get a feel of what labels might be interested in it.

It's a really disheartening feeling when you make a song that you love and every label says no, and it's like, back to the drawing board. Especially if I've invested in the engineering side of it as well, I've got to go back.

What does that mean, engineering side, so.

Oh, yeah, sorry. I probably should have explained that there's something in music called mixing and mastering, which is also the main term for it is engineering. So when you create a song, you split it up into your parts and some people do this on their own and hats off to them because it's a whole different part. Ball Games are actually producing, but I have my engineer that I send it off to and he basically picks apart all of the stems and mixes them all in together to make sure that the song kind of flows on a big system or any kind of system. Because there are sort of. If I was able to show you really quickly after this sort of how a song of mine sounds before I send it to an engineer, you'll understand. Gotcha.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Especially when it's on a big speaker.

Yeah. So what happens, you said you create a bit of music, you send to the labels, they all say, no, is that dead in the water? Throw it out. That's it.

Sometimes. But other times you'll find a place that loves it. You just got to hold on to it and keep looking. Or might mean that you have to go and get a vocalist to sing on it or add some other kind of catchy hook. But mostly these days record labels are looking for something that's going to pop on Tick Tock. So a lot of songs have to have that catchy moment that can be used in that 15 seconds. Wow.

Fascinating.

Isn't that wild?

And I'm not. I'm not thinking about that when I'm writing. Because I'm just writing. Yeah. And I'm throwing things at the wall and if they stick, then they stick. But I don't really like to have that TikTok kind of mentality when I'm approaching my music.

Yeah, that's fascinating. What about the business model behind it? So like, you know, are you earning a revenue split off the Spotify plays? Is that how that works?

Yeah. So basically it's mainly in quarterly payments from Spotify. So basically. Or not even just Spotify. So the record label will compile all of the funds, the royalties, call them from that quarter and basically you'll just get a statement from the label. And sometimes you might get a few different statements depending on how many labels you've released with. But that's pretty much how it works in terms of payments.

Yeah. And they just take a cut of that?

Yeah, yeah. Most of the time it's pretty brutal cut. But I could imagine yeah, but honestly, for me, it makes sense to kind of give labels a fairly decent cut sometimes, but as long as they kind of pull their weight and they're sending it out to as many different places. And I gotta thank my labels that I've worked with because they've put music in places that I probably wouldn't have been able to do myself. But it's. Yeah, it's kind of unique for everyone, for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

And what are the other kind of avenues in the music business to make money? Do you get money from producing and do you kind of freelance there or how does that work?

Yeah. So touching back on that ghost production that we were talking about before, that's another good way to make money. Recently I've launched my store as well online. So I'm actually selling music production. What's the word? Tools for people to use. And that's doing pretty well at the moment, which is really cool. Awesome, basically.

What's it called?

Well, I'm still looking for a domain, but I'm running it through selfie at the moment, or sellfy, however you say it. And that's been really handy because I've been able to kind of just sell a digital product on there. So as soon as people click buy, it's just straight into their downloads, which is really cool.

Nice.

Yeah.

Best way to do it.

What.

What about challenges, mate? What. Is there anything that sticks out as, like, you know, career challenges? Was it back, you know, you mentioned back at school, like, you know, guys just taking the piss out of the music when you were sort of coming up, was that. Was that some of the harder stuff was any other challenges you've been through that was hard to navigate?

I'd say that mainly it was just getting around the people that were taking the piss out of me at the start. But that. That honestly gave me a bit of fire, to be honest, to get through it. But mainly the biggest things that I find the hardest in the industry is just. It's been kind of dealing with people that don't believe in me, especially when they're on my own team and people that are close to me or could be a girlfriend from the past or if my parents have said the tiniest thing to throw me off a little bit, like, why aren't you working a job? Or you should be doing this or that. They're the things that I find the hardest as a freelancer, kind of heading into a world where you don't really know what's going to happen because that's. That's true. You don't know what's going to happen, and I might blow up really big, but then it all comes crashing down in a month's time. You just don't know how it's going to go. But.

Even though it's the hardest thing, I've always found it the most motivating thing as well, because it just gives me a reason to kind of try harder, I suppose.

You know, man, you sound so much like Ben.

You guys are so identical in the way you speak about your aspirations and what drives you. It's incredible.

Well, I believe that coming from Tasmania, that's probably one of the biggest things that's motivated me to get out there as well, because I've always hated doing the same thing every day, day in, day out, talking to the same people, having the same conversations, same. Yeah, Even I'm blown away by people that live in the same house for their whole life. Like, how do you do that? You know what I mean? And I think me and you share that because we've come from a place that's so small and we've been like, I want to get out there. And.

Yeah. And I think, like, I don't know how you feel about this, but once you get a taste for, like, outside of not only Tasmania, but not only Australia, but, like, you get a taste of what's else out there.

Like, why.

Why is anyone not out here exploring about this? Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. The world's amazing. And like. And I think people just, you know, and that might be okay for some people being comfortable in where they are, but I think so many people are uncomfortable being uncomfortable. And I think, like, you mentioned, like, just getting out there, getting in front of 6,000 people, doing a podcast, creating music, it's. It's putting yourself out there in a world that you don't know the future. You don't know how it's going to play out, but that's where. That's where the value is. That's where great things happen in. In areas that people aren't confident enough or want to go to that place. Like that intersection of, like you said, when it gets all too hard, most people quit. Most people give up because they're like this, like, too much pressure. I'm out. I want to get back to bed. If you can push through that, I think that's where glory lives.

Yeah. Yeah. That's probably the best way to put it, I'd say.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's awesome.

That's it. It's. Yeah. That the things you guys have talked about is and you both do is consistency and being comfortable with being uncomfortable. So always try to get to the next level. You're always in discomfort like Ben trying to go and raise capital or you know, with jumping on investor calls or now you're doing content or Mason you now being a dj going out doing crazy hours meeting new people, different places in the world. It's just what you need. Or even having cold showers like just that every day. Just having that, you know that mental mindset of just being uncomfortable even if it's just for a few minutes while you shower so you can keep that personal growth going.

Yeah. And I've only just recently come on to things like that. I've been researching a lot of small ways that you can just improve your day.

Because obviously being a DJ and having the late nights and you're around alcohol and all that more it tends to weigh you down if you indulge in that too often.

100 yeah so.

And obviously wanting to maintain a creative mindset. I like to just stay as clear as I can. And the cold showers are unreal.

Yeah.

Even I've been following. Do you know Dr. Huberman? Do you know much about him?

I've heard of him. Bergs probably does. Yeah.

Yeah. He. He talks a lot about these little scientific ways to just improve your day to day life and it's amazing man. I've mainly taken away his tip about sunlight in the morning on your eyes. Have you heard about that one?

Yeah. Getting out and like you know, looking at the sun and. Yeah, yeah. It's good for your sleep and academic rhythm.

Circadian rhythm.

It just. It just stabilizes your mood throughout the day. Unreal. And I find that as a creator I tend to sort of be really up and down with my moods. Especially when I sit down really motivated to make a tune and I just can't. I really throw myself. Is it hard to self? Yeah, yeah, very man. And I think that's sort of how I live my life. Like if I'm working on a song and I think yeah, I'm onto something. Like I'm just on top of the world. I've got the biggest smile on my face. But as soon as I try and create something and I just can't then it's having me down for the rest of the day.

I feel as I'm talking the same person in a different world. Like when I'm on and things are great like, like I'm going to like we're building a billion dollar company as soon as it goes to. I'm like, like, you know, and not that you give up, but you're just in this space of, like, you. You become more stressed out. You become more, like, maybe more frantic. You're trying to. Then you're trying to pivot your strategy where, you know, you should just stay on the path. You start doing other stuff. You get, like, really all over the shop, like.

Yeah, yeah. You just have to go through those down times, though, because it makes you appreciate when it's actually good.

100. What would talk me through? Like, when you're going, you know, you're playing in an event, you know, it's maybe it's late at night or a bunch of fun, you know, in front of a bunch of people, like, and you know, you've got work Monday. Like, how is it to, like, stay, I guess, like, maybe everyone's drinking, everyone's partying. Like, how do you think about being, like, balancing that party life when that's just, like, what everyone's socially basically asking you to do versus, like, trying to maintain a level of, like, you know, I've got to do Monday. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, when I was younger, I found that a lot harder to do. But you've just got to separate it, man. You've got to separate the party from the business. And lately. Well, I think I'm probably too young to be saying this still. I'm sure people 10, 20 years older than me will probably take the pissed, but I just feel like absolute after drinking, and it literally takes it out of me for two or three days. You know, if I even have five to six drinks on a Saturday night, I still feel it on Tuesday. Yeah. And it might not even be the headaches and everything, but I just don't feel like getting up and working.

Not creative.

Yeah.

No energy.

I feel like it's just. It blocks that part of my brain that makes me motivated and want to work.

Yeah.

And, yeah, I've just really had to learn how to separate all of that, especially when I'm. When I'm out for sure.

Yeah. I've been through a similar thing. Like, I. You know, not from a partying perspective, but like networking events, dinners. Like, everyone's, you know, you're the wines out, everyone's in the beers, and all of a sudden you've drank four out or five out of the seven nights. You just feel like you get a sleep, you're not feeling good. So I basically cut it all out back to soda water.

Yeah.

You know, maybe have a Few drinks on a Saturday, but otherwise you're not being. You're not productive on a Monday. And I get so frustrated if I can't work at the pace or quality. Similar to yourself. Like, it's.

It's. It's a choice that you make. It's a sacrifice where you can have a good time, but you're borrowing from tomorrow's happiness and productivity.

And if that's the choice you want.

To make, yeah, that's fine. But when you're doing it, quite often it starts to really. And especially, like with you guys, when you want to hit it hard, you've got to start up. You've got a career that you're. You're launching. You know, you want to be able to perform. You want to be able to practice your craft. You don't want to feel like shit.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's. It's been the biggest thing for me to overcome.

Yeah. Because everyone else is doing it, right.

Yeah, everyone else is doing it. And especially because I come into it from such a young age as well. I started playing in clubs when I was 14, 15. So when I finally turned 18, I was like, yeah, I'm so keen to be able to do this and have a drink.

Yeah.

And then that turned into a few too many drinks. And, like, a lot of people would be ashamed to admit something like this, but I hate the fact that I've let alcohol in the past ruin certain opportunities for myself, because I could admit that they have. It might be a small thing that I've said to somebody or anything like that. And as I've gotten older, I've learned that, you know, if you want to take this seriously, you've just got to keep alcohol out of it. Because, especially when I'm performing, like, that's. That's my business. That's what I do. You don't show up to a meeting if you're a businessman blind because they won't take you seriously. And it's the same with promoters and these nightclub owners. Like, if you. If you're just running around just talking shit, like, slurring your words, and no one's gonna take you seriously. And you've just got to know when you can. When you can do that.

Yeah. If you want to be in the 1%, you'll do the things only 1% of people do.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it probably sounds bad, but when I'm out and when I'm performing in a venue, you can't always look at yourself like the people that are partying You've got to think they're here for entertainment, they're here to enjoy their night with their friends. But I'm here to perform and play my music. Yeah. You know, I'm not here to get up like all of them.

It's so. I could imagine how hard that is to separate, like, the fact that you've come to realize that, like, you know, so young, like, that's incredible. And I think that's why I think you're going to be fucking massive already.

Thanks, man.

Absolutely. And I like that where it's like, it's, you know, you do the things that other people don't. So you can do the things other people can't.

Right?

Yeah.

Where it's like you're sacrificing that you're being in the 1%, you're going that extra mile. So when you do show up, you're fresh, you know, you're on top of it, your mind's great, you can be creative. It's so important. And it's. It's amazing at your age to hear you speak like that. When I was your age, I was at the pub, mate. Like at uni or supposed to be studying and I was at the pub. Bloody punk. But to hear that is just phenomenal.

Yeah, no, it's. It's cool, man. I just. I feel as though I'm just over that point in my life, which probably sounds really strange to hear somebody my age say that, but it's the truth. Like, I'm just. I'm over it. I have a couple of drinks and I just don't find it exciting anymore. I just get real tired and flat and I want to go home and it's not. Not exciting for me, you know?

Yeah.

I only really want to look at something like that as something that you do when you're celebrating.

Who are the people around you that support you and like, you know, that you go to and turn to and talk to about all the stuff you're going through. Like, is it other DJs, girlfriend, family?

It's mainly my girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. She's actually studying psychology, so she's been perfect. Talk to about certain things.

Yeah, that's heavy, man. And what about your personal brand? Like, as a. As anyone, I think online, trying to build something digitally now, it's about personal brand, you know, content. How do you think about that and growing your brand and getting your sort of your personal, you know, your content out there?

Well, I guess it goes back to what I was saying earlier and it's Just time in the chair, just constantly working on my music because the music is my product and if I look at what I'm doing as my business or my brand, I've got to have the main product and then everything is kind of an offset from that. But just like my website that I've recently built, like, that's another part of my brand that I've sort of stretched out to and over time I look to just continue doing things like that.

Yeah.

I might not have it all planned out yet, but I know that the more things I do and the busier I become, then I'll just have more ideas to reach out to that.

Yeah, this is you again, mate. This is. This is Ben where he's like, with social media and his strategy, like, the more stuff he does, the more talks that he'll do, the more platforms he's on, the more it will compound, the more opportunities will come and he'll be able to achieve what he wants to achieve.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that if I wasn't doing this, I'd be doing something similar to you, for sure.

Yeah.

Because I. I've just always wanted to be in charge of my own.

Yeah.

I just hate working for someone and being told what to do. And I've tried heaps of things, man. I've tried digital marketing, I've tried social media management. Everything that is kind of just your own skill that you can do on your own terms. And music's been that one thing that has consistently been there in the background and I just. Yeah. Obsessed with it.

I love it. Just obsess over something you love and what it. There's nothing better. And I think we're probably lucky that we found that at our age. Like, I think there's a lot of people that haven't figured that out yet, that don't know what they want to do, that, you know, haven't found the thing they love. But if you can find that intersection.

Yeah.

And it's. It's not just finding the thing, it's having the discipline to actually put in the work. But also know that it's going to take time because people want things very quickly. And even the way that you're speaking, you're a young guy and you're like, look, it's going to take a long time and it might blow up, it might be great for a month and then it's going to go away. But to have that foresight and still be willing to put in the effort, that's how. Well, that's how I know you're going to succeed, man. Like, if you do that, there is nothing but success, right?

Yeah, of course. And it kind of stretches out to anything that you decide to do in your life. Like, you've just got to stay consistent.

To the highs and the lows.

Yeah. It's all you can really say. There are lots of people that claim that there are these little tips and tricks and. And hacks, and these things can help you get closer, but if you want things, you just got to work hard for them. And, like, that's just the. The most blunt way that you can totally agree, man.

There's no shortcuts.

And which side do you enjoy more? Do you. Where do you see your career going? Do you want to be a producer and a dj, or is it more the DJ path or producer path? Which. Which one do you kind of prefer?

Well, it's both. Because if you ask me if when I'm 60 or 70 years old, if I want to be producing or DJing, still, I'll say producing, but the DJing is another outlet for me to get my music out there. So that's, you know, it. I would say producer and dj, but I'd always put producer first because I'm just obsessed with that kind of. Like, there's so many different things that you can do with music production, man. Like, it's. It's crazy, and I'm just obsessed with how it feels when you're tweaking a sound and stuff so many different ways that you can make it sound, and it's. It's crazy, man. You just get lost in it.

I love watching, like, Timberland or Kanye or someone in the studio when they're creating a song and they're just, like, absolutely obsessed and how they just. The sound just tweaks a little bit and their eyes just light up.

When you crack onto something that sounds good, it's just. It's like, you're on.

Oh, so good. Have you. Have you looked at any of, like, the AI stuff in music, or do you use any of it?

Yeah, yeah, I've dabbled in it. I haven't really used it yet because I haven't found anything that's really good quality, but I've used it for everything. Like, recently I put into the chat gbt. I said, give me a unique chord progression in A minor that no one has used before. And it's giving.

So specific.

Yeah. And it's giving me a full chord progression, and it's saying that it's. It's Based from certain genres in music and all mashed together and it even lets me. Yeah, it's. It's crazy. It's nuts. Wow. It's nuts. And I haven't made a song out of it yet, but it was able to quickly search the whole Internet and put together a chord progression for a song that it wasn't able to find anywhere else.

Me.

Oh, I've seen some wild stuff. Like I was talking to Tim, our developer and he was saying even AI stuff where you get a song and it automatically pulls out all the stems so you can just rip whatever you like.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's very common nowadays as well.

Yeah. Or even just typing in a prompt and it will create a song for you.

Yeah.

Or even the vocals from other artists where you could just do reference vocals yourself and then it'll play it in their voice. It's just phenomenal.

Yeah, yeah. At the start I was pretty worried about obviously all this AI stuff and I imagine that both of you have probably been a little bit worried about it in certain areas. But I saw somebody say that AI itself isn't going to take over, but the people that implement it every day are.

Yeah.

And you've just got to look at it that way because it's such a. Such a great technology that we have and it's building so quick. I don't even want to think about where it's going to be in 10 years time.

You can't ignore it.

No, you can't.

You're right, you can't.

And that's what people say. I got this from Hardwell too. I saw he did a TED talk once and he spoke about using technologies that nobody is really onto yet before it gets big. And he's been able to do it in so many different ways to his advantage, which is something that I'm sort of looking into now as well. Just trying to find different ways that I can just help my day to day life just with new technologies.

I've been watching the Wu Tang series recently and how even RZA learned like, you know, musical theory so they could actually play live on stage with instruments instead of samples. And I remember going to the big day out would be like 10 years ago, maybe even more. And Bjork was there with like an old school, like the first iteration of Microsoft Surface and Touch technology and like pulling out the sounds and like move like her DJ was just insane. Just the stuff that they use is incredible.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so good being on the beat. You're right. Being on the cutting edge and experimenting and trying things first. You'll be the pioneer of that genre and way ahead of everyone else.

Yeah, exactly. For sure. One of the things that I could use as an example from Hardwell is he was one of the first artists to actually upload his full one hour set from Ultra. I think it can't remember what year it was. It might have been 2015 or 2016, but done that before. Yeah, he got it up within half an hour, I'm pretty sure. Or an hour if I'm. Don't quote me on that because it's probably not correct. But it was somewhere in that time frame. And soon after, what do you think happened? Up. And everybody else started doing it as well because they saw that it worked.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, he's just really smart and I like to try and just think that I can do things like that as well, but just gotta think outside the box.

Yeah, mate. A little bit of a change of pace. I want to talk about crypto because we have a crypto podcast at a core. We spoke a little bit before the pod. I think you were in the market now. Out of the market.

Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be embarrassing, but I'm keen to talk about it.

Okay, talk us through. When did you first buy?

Oh, when did I first. It would have been pre. Covered.

Okay. Was the market like booming? Like was things sort of popping off?

It was when everyone was talking about it.

Okay. So. Well, they've been burgers. 20, 21.

Around then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A couple years ago and I was.

Working full time and all my money was going into NFTs.

Oh.

You know, if as well.

And they were all flopping really bad. Yeah. There was one that I got a pretty decent return on. But once I. Once it was tax time and I was able to see how much I'd actually spent, I was like.

Yeah. I was like, I better not. Better not do this anymore.

We've all been there. Yeah.

And I feel as though, because we're still so early on in the NFTs and everything, there are so many scams going around all the time. And I was ripped for, I think, two of my NFTs. There was this guy saying, oh. Because I can't remember exactly what happened, but this certain NFT line dropped and they weren't able to sell for some reason yet. They were still waiting for a certain period before the store opened. And there was this guy that messaged me and he's like, I've just seen your thing on your OpenSea, I'll buy it right now for this much. And I was like, shit. I think it was like 11, 12 grand that he wanted to buy it for. And I was like, oh, we're on here. This is sick. I was working for $27 an hour at the time, making no money. So I thought, this is going to be absolutely sick. Sick to get all this. And so he managed to convince me to send him the NFT first and blocked me instantly.

And I'm like, it's gone. You're not alone, man. I mean, my first NFT was a scam. I was like rushing in between, like, work, trying to get this NFT PfP ended up buying on the wrong, like, platform.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, welcome NFTs. Right. This is a new ball game. But I mean, I hear so many people that have been done like that, it's just, it's a wild space.

You just got to be onto it. You got to be able to look ahead and all that. But where do you think NFTs are going to go over the next few years or decade?

Yeah, I mean, volumes right now. Down like 95%. I am a big believer in NFTs and things like ticketing, membership communities, rewards programs. So, like Reddit probably released the best NFT program today. So on Reddit, you can basically get a character or profile for your user.

Oh, yeah.

And then based on the amount of points, because Reddit have their Reddit points, I'm not sure what they call bergs. What's the point system in Reddit? What are they called?

Karma.

Karma for like contributing the platform.

Yeah.

Which builds up like XP points and that can build into your nft and then you can sell that NFT for other people. So if you think about, like, if you build up your 2K23 profile, right. You put a bunch of time and effort into it, you build up your profile, you're getting all these XP points, then you leave the game and your character lives in the game. You can't. That's. It dies in there.

Yeah.

With NFTs, you can think about ways that that is your digital collectible that you can transfer into different games. You can sell. I might want your character so you can sell it to me. So that's, that's, I think, the future of NFTs.

Yeah, it's cool. And I saw that Gary V, he was talking about how this might be able to be used on things like houses in the future.

Yeah. So like, you know, tokenized investment so you could like, Break down a house, for example, into a thousand NFTs and you can, you know, dissect it into, you know, different, you know, percentages of that asset.

It's nuts, isn't it?

Tokenized assets having royalties in perpetuity. So imagine you have a house, buy it for, let's say a million dollars. Every time it sells, you get 5% of the sale price.

Yeah.

Even though you've only sold it once, you no longer own it.

One of the areas as well that the NFTs haven't crashed is like, is digital art. So the art space within NFTs actually haven't dropped anywhere near as much as like the other side of NFTs, which is a fascinating space. I'm not a big art person, so I haven't, you know, invest in that space. But from a lot of people I know in the NFT space, there's still a lot of art NFTs going for 30, 40, 50, 70, 80 ETH. Like yeah, we're talking like, you know, 150, $60,000 each. So for me though, like we, we focus primarily on the tokenized world, like Bitcoin, Ethereum, you know, some Altcoins, Metaverse, dfi. Have you played with Bitcoin or ETH at all? Ethereum?

Well, yeah, because when I was doing the NFTs, I had to purchase ETH to be able to get them.

How'd you go learning about that? Where'd you go to figure it out?

I just mainly just looked at the conversion between AUD and eth and I'd always just check out, you know, how much it was in comparison. But I never really found out too much about the back end of all that stuff.

Yes. Did you get a metamask and things like that?

Yeah, yeah, I was on all of that, which is really cool. But there's no doubt that all of that stuff is going to pick up here because they're just collectibles and humans have always collected things as far back as it goes. So when you correlate that to us moving further into the digital world, then there's no doubt that everyone's going to just want to keep collecting things.

100%.

This is it. And even like with NFTs, things you could do today, you could have the mason nft, right. Like under your, your DJ brand. Right. Let's say you release a certain amount. The simple thing is they can unlock utilities, like maybe they get to jump on stage with you or you produce something for them or it's a 15 minute video call. But then let's say people that attend an event that you're at and their ticket is an nft, they can still hold onto that. And then in the future on your website, you might release a song early, they can connect their NFT to it and access that song or access time with you or, you know, they can review things. It's just a way to access digital communities. I think it's really, really fascinating. I think those really. When you can connect with a person at a deeper level or you can even do like a raise through it as well, you could be like, great, I want to self fund my own album. And then you know, you could have NFTs attached to that and then based on the proceeds from that, people could be rewarded. Like I really see those heavy utility things, like real world use cases.

Coming forward for NFTs.

Yeah.

Looking forward to seeing a lot more of it.

Yeah, it's really, it's really cool. I've seen a lot of brands doing this too. Yeah. In particular the Nelk Boys. They actually released their NFT and it gave their community so many different perks and things that you can't get if you don't hold the nft. And yeah, I think it's really cool and there's a lot of opportunity to move into that. Yeah, I've seen recently there's been a lot of music producers too that are actually releasing their singles as an NFT as well. So it's the same concept that you were just talking about. People actually own a piece of that song.

Yeah.

Which is really cool.

So Rihanna, I think it was Rihanna did it at the Super Bowl. Yeah. So she made one of her previous songs like into a. Basically you could get access to it via an NFT and you earned I think up to like 3 or 4% royalties on all the funds that were sold to that song. Those NFT holders got a percentage of the royalties. So it's a whole new world.

Yeah, it's awesome, man. It's so cool. Yeah.

So fascinating. Mate, is there anything else that we haven't touched on? Like this has been an epic conversation. Like anything else that, you know, you could share for people maybe like that have a side hustle or have a hobby or want to get into DJing producing, like what would your sort of tips for them to them be?

I'm just pretty much going back to what I was saying before about just scheduling yourself out and finding the right time to do everything. Like if you are working full time can be a bit harder because you might Have a family to come home to. You might have a girlfriend that wants your attention or anything like that, but you've just got to make the time, you know, and unfortunately, you've. You've got to skip some, you know, some time to hang out with your friends. Eventually you might have to skip a night out for a special occasion, but you do have to make sacrifices like that to put yourself ahead, because if you believe enough in what you're doing, then you really do just have to put the time in.

Yeah, for sure, man. Dude, that's been epic. I've really, you know, enjoyed having you on. Thanks so much for coming on.

Yeah, it's been sick.

I. It was great to get your backstory and like, hopefully a lot of other listeners out there that might be. Want to get into DJing or producing or just getting after, I think, like a side hustle, like going after their dream, like, super inspiring. And, you know, through the ups and downs, man, just. I love that. Just getting after it and aiming, aiming high, man. That's cool.

Yeah, thanks, man. It's been great. It's my first ever podcast experience.

Natural.

Yeah. So glad it's been with you boys, for sure.

You've reinforced so many lessons for me and even just, like, motivated me to just get after it. I'm just like, I'm too fucking lazy. Let's go. Motivating, mate.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man.

Yeah, thanks so much. Where can people find your music where they can follow you? What are your platforms?

So I'm most active on Instagram and that's just a list of music.

Trying to get into TikTok a bit more. But I'm not the biggest fan of TikTok. Facebook, Spotify, I'm just Lister. Same as Soundcloud. But, yeah, that's where you can find me. Mostly.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on again, Mason. That's been epic and if you like these episodes, we'd love for you to share it with a friend. Maybe someone wants to get into music or just think there'd be an epic conversation here. Mason's backstory, please share with a friend. We'd love for it to be shared around. And Bergs, as always, mate, thanks for coming on. Coming in from Perth on the. On the Zoom.

No worries at all, mate. It was cracking episode, mate. That was really, really good. Thanks so much, Mason.

No, I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it, man. Man.

Awesome, guys. We'll see you next week.

Oh, wait, we got to get a selfie with him.

Yeah, we do.