Happier Aging at Scale with Arif Abdulla

Have you ever had a week when you're completely slammed but somehow nothing actually moved? Is this one of those weeks? That's not really a time problem. It's a busyness habit problem. My new book, Busy Is Broken: Do Less, Scale More, is all about growing by doing less, not more. Read or listen to a sample chapter over at busyisbroken.com. That's busyisbroken.com. It's also on Amazon and other booksellers. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Again, music tells me we're about to have a conversation. Something that I love doing, talking about growth stories and more. Today's conversation is really all about expansion and growth, developing, fine-tuning a great expansion story. We're going to talk about going from one location to more than 400, from one country across four countries. How do we do that kind of thing? That's our conversation today with Arif Abdullah. Nurse Next Door is the company. We've had conversations before about Nurse Next Door, different cut, different angle, more great, great stories here to share with you. Everybody, I'm Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Superfine Scaling Podcast. Scaling Up Business Podcast. Our show comes to you every week, and we talk about all the things that go into scaling. And we talk with CEOs, with authors, with leaders, with, you know, everybody to do with growing your company and how to survive and enjoy the journey. In my own world, the thing that I'm most excited about right now is my new book coming out, Busy Is Broken. Go to busyisbroken.com, find it also Amazon, wherever you get your book. Books, you'll find an audiobook, Kindle, hardcover, paperback, like whatever you want, it'll be there. BusyIsBroken.com or go to Amazon or go to Barnes Noble, wherever you want, and, and you'll find it there. It's all about like how after you start to build a team, you can actually be the bottleneck. The cost of your expired habits, maybe the habits that got you there, that won't get you there, that won't take you beyond it. What needs to get retired so your company can really grow and you can have an amazing life anyway, and how those two actually work together. So many great stories, that kind of thing in the book, and some fundamental principles for sins, things that get in the way of doing it. Forward by Michael Gerber, recommendation by Michael Marshall Goldsmith. So I'm very excited about BusyIsBroken.com.

All right.

All right. Arif Abdulla is on screen with me now in studio. He's VP of Business Development, Franchise Development at Nurse Next Door. And, you know, they started the company years ago in one location. Ken Sim, who's a personal friend and in a forum group with my wife for years now, is the Mayor of Vancouver more recently. Grew this thing from one, one operation, one city, one country, now across 4 countries, 400 cities. And, and Arif started with them 20 years ago and has built up that kind of business. Joining us today to talk about everything that went into that and what it was like for him. Arif, welcome to the show.

Bill, thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Well, so that's an interesting thing. What is it that it is for you in that very first meeting, you know, when you were a young pup, um, 20 years ago, right? That's a long time to stick with one guy.

I still feel young. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean, I think back to, you know, when I started. Yeah, I was 23 years old. Um, quite honestly, I was coming out of university and I was looking for a job, and I stumbled across Nurse Next Door and the founders. And what drew me to the opportunity were all of the things I tell folks not to think about today, right? The future potential, the demographics, the financial opportunity. At 23, that's what I was kind of excited about. And the nice to have was the impact the business was having on people. But yeah, when I, when I started, I remember one of the first things we always do is we send folks on client visits to go and see the business in action, right? We take care of people in their homes, providing them with the healthcare needs that they have. And I remember walking into the home of a client, her name was Mrs. Wong. And I walked into the home and I saw her caregiver, Steven, doing her hair and makeup. And I remember asking Steven what he did with Mrs. Wong every day. He was with her every day. And he said, well, I come here, I help her get up and get dressed, and then I make her feel beautiful. And verbatim, those were his exact words to me. As I got to know Mrs. Wong over the next couple of hours, I learned she was the type of person that always had to look her best, right? Didn't matter whether she was going out, staying in, you know, that's who she was. And I realized that the business was providing something much deeper than just the support with activities of daily living, right? It was how he made her feel. That was the real service we were providing. And so, you know, I described this business as very easy to fall in love with now. What I thought was just a cool business turned into a lot more. One other story I'll tell just related to that. I remember a few months later, I was sitting at my desk and yeah, I was very early in the career, didn't really know a lot about the business just yet. And Stephen walked in and I looked up at Stephen, he had tears coming down his face. And I asked him what happened. And he said that Mrs. Wong had passed away that morning. This is about 6 months after my first visit there. And I realized just that genuine connection created between a client and caregiver and how meaningful it is and even more meaningful for the caregiver, right? Stephen's there grieving. Mrs. Wong's gone. And so to me, I realized this was a real marriage of profit and purpose, right? It was a business where, yes, it was an exciting business. Still, I love that part of it. I love the expansion and opportunity, but it's doing something that impacts people's lives. So that was my story and part of why I think I've been here for so long.

That is a great place to go. Nodded me to two prior stories as well. I'm going to just touch on them briefly because I want the audience to think about these two aspects. So one of them is like where you found a connection to something. You know, I joined my wife and grew her— the business she founded for more than 10 years because when we were thinking about like what to focus on in our businesses, we had multiple at the time. I met a woman and we met a woman together and I heard for the first time what jewelry was for her, like what it meant to her and what it was. And so I had no background in jewelry, but I got passionate about and excited about and worked on growing a jewelry business because I suddenly heard something like what it was deeply meaningful for her, empowering, made her feel special, you know. Boom, I'm like, okay, I'm in, right? And I, I had to learn a lot of things along the way. I learned a lot, like, you know, about color trends and accessories. And, uh, and I, you know, I became— had an exceptionally keen view of when the shoes did or didn't work with the outfit, um, for a straight guy. Like, I had a pretty good view of that, um, and, and so like, what was the emotional moment where you started to care about something, where you realized it mattered, where you, where you felt connected? And that's the thing I heard, and it reminded me of that story. And I, and I've worked with a lot of founders who, like, want to pitch either for investors or for prospective employees or partners or to the media or things like that. And, uh, and they, they don't start with that, like, Why do you even care? Like, what is special about this business? I mean, you can make money lots of different ways. And is it just making money or is there something about this particular thing that you're doing that you care about? And we want to get that out there. Like, when, when was the thing that you really saw that? Right. And, and then I also think about like deeper. You reminded me a couple of years ago, post-COVID, uh, we went to see my, uh, my in-laws, my, um, my, uh, wife's mother and her stepdad. He's in his 90s, and, um, he's like, I like— I need to get a haircut. I just, you know, like, because they had been indoors with COVID for a couple years, like, in their age and that kind of thing, in their stage of life. So I took him to get a haircut. Right? And, uh, and as I took him to get a haircut, he just was like, oh, I feel like a— I feel human again. I feel so great. He started telling me these things. And then, and then, right, because I'm bringing humanity to him. So thinking about like, like whatever situation, where do we see and connect with human beings? More and more things can get automated, can get AI-ified, but where are you bringing that, right? And then in that moment, he also said Um, he said, I'm, uh, I'm tired, I'm done. And, uh, and he explained— it took me a half a beat— but he was saying that he was ready to go, to die, you know. And, um, and it wasn't like— it wasn't at all sad. It was, look, I can't tell my wife this, I need to talk to somebody to tell them. And so he starts to tell me about his— he's ready to let go, to move on to whatever comes after this life. And, um, and I'm like, okay, I can hear that. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm not like, you know, I'm, I'm your son-in-law. Um, and so I just listened to him and I said, tell me about your life and tell me about, are there any regrets? Is there anything in the way of you like letting go? And, um, so, and, and he told me all that. So we, we got the haircut, then we went to lunch and we lingered a little bit. We shared a Reuben sandwich and a Diet Coke, and he talked to me about all the things and his, his kids and his friends and his neighbors and all the highs and lows and that kind of thing. And I kept inspecting, like, is there anything you need to do? Do we need to call any of the kids? And, you know, do you need to apologize or say anything? And like, you know, so like, and now he's like, no, we've done what we needed to do. It's okay. Like, if I— I'm like, okay, but if you pass today, like, what's, you know, And, uh, you know, we're just talking hypothetically. And then, um, then we went home and we were doing some paperwork, right, to help them manage their affairs. And after telling some jokes and things like on the couch, um, he just slumped over and died.

Wow.

And it was the most beautiful most beautiful kind of peaceful passing, and so complete. And so, like, he was happy, he was joking about his life, and then he was gone. And, um, like, I hope someday that I could go in such a way, you know, so well. And, and I feel so privileged to have been there for someone in that, you know, we— I had no idea that was going to be his last day. But I was treating it as if it was a precious moment to like listen to and be with someone. And I think that's like a core message that you brought, you like— so I think that connecting with that humanity with our clients, with our customers, you tapped into it, you reminded me of mine, hopefully between your story and this one, our listeners, our viewers remember the importance of like bringing the human connection to that because that is gold, right? That's what can't be done by your AI today.

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for sharing that. It's such a beautiful story. And as difficult as those moments are, I'm glad you had that experience, right? Because a lot of people don't get that moment and hearing other people going— like, we see it all every day. Um, we call it— we call it Happier Aging. Like, we think happier aging right to the very end. Um, and in your case, that haircut, that's— he felt like himself, right? Um, and it can be as simple as that. And I think that mindset is, is so important as we think about these, these moments in life.

Yeah, and, and it becomes a catalyst for, like, that, like, getting a haircut and what he— how he looked and how he presented himself to the world and the story of all of that and like what defined him and that kind of thing. And then, you know, and like passing the baton now, the memory of that. And then of course I took a couple pictures of him as he was sitting in the chair and like all of that then becomes a thing that I carry, like the importance of knowing all those little moments of life and what you cherish and what matters and how we're connected and That's just great.

Beautiful. Yeah, it really is.

So your work—

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your work is, is finding these franchises. I'm going to connect it back or give you an opening to connect it back. Finding a franchise or connecting with growing the franchise partners, right? What is the human component of that?

Right. I mean, so I would say my role is finding people that can bring that concept of happier aging, that moment that you shared to their communities, right, to their city, to their people, to their market. And it's not just about growing. It's about taking this concept of happier aging that we so deeply believe in. And we believe everyone should have that opportunity. To more and more people around the world. And so one of the things that I look for is that connection to our purpose, because that franchisee in every community is the most important conduit of our purpose in that market, right? They're going to be the one leading the team, bringing that culture there, those core values there. And we've got to ensure that we're bringing in people that are, that are in it for the right reasons. I'm not saying it can't be because you also want to make money. That's great. But it has to be equal parts, you know, profit and purpose. They have to be in it equally to impact people's lives and create those moments that you got to experience, that I've got to experience, right? We want them bringing that to their market and their community.

Yeah, I love that. So, you're looking at like why this business? Why this category of nursing? Why this kind of business to be in? Like, do you actually see and notice these people? Because it's not necessarily easy. So dealing with people who are older, who have health issues, who are uncomfortable, um, could be really challenging as well.

Yeah, yeah, it is. I think it's— if, if though, if, if, if the franchise partner is connected to the purpose, the business is hard, right? I mean, it's a 24/7 business. There's going to be peaks and valleys in it. Um, you know, when you think about our client sort of, call it life cycle, inevitably they pass away, right? They either move to another care facility setting, right? Obviously, as they progress, sometimes that happens, or, you know, they pass away. And that can be really challenging and emotional for a business owner. But I think those that are connected to the purpose are kind of inspired by that and know that, okay, we've lost the client, but this is why we do it. And they're thinking about the bigger picture and the impact they're having on the community. And so, I think if we can, if we stay focused in that area, we create great businesses in the market. And that's what we're looking for, right? Like we— one of the first things I look at when I speak to a prospective franchisee is that connection. It doesn't have to be that they've had healthcare experience or even personal experience. Like I think about my story. I stumbled across it at 23. At 23, I wasn't yet in a place where I was caring for elderly parents, right? I am now, but that's very different. And if I was looking for that personal connection, I probably wouldn't have been chosen to be here, right? But it's more that I did get excited about it. And some of our best franchisees have gotten excited about it, but it's not just because of the financial opportunity.

That's a great, like, insight learning as well. There are these things that we pick up along the way. It could be at 8, 10 years old. It could be at 16. It could be at 23. I think about many touch points at different things like the paper route, or when I was trying to sell event tickets, or when I, um, started a newspaper, when I had a radio show, all of those things, like, there's a thread of them that pulled through to almost every other job that I had. And so when I, like, when I heard the thing with the jewelry business, I was like, oh, I see a way to relate to this, right? Like, I, I could bring— and then I saw other kinds of things like The way they did things, I knew to do differently. I knew how to do certain things from an operational and technology standpoint at scale that they didn't do in the company at the time. I'm like, oh, I know how to bring that into this place. And I think that you're thinking about like, what could you do? Which is why you could go into a nursing business without having a degree in nursing necessarily.

Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I look at some of our most successful franchisees don't have healthcare experience. I think about, You know, we have an incredibly strong executive team. Our CEO came from Gap and brought in systems and processes. And I think, you know, that's what it takes to scale, right, is creating those systems and processes, understanding the business. So I'm a lot more knowledgeable on healthcare and nursing than I probably ever would have been. But the point is, is that we're taking that and making sure we're building the systems that franchisees can use to scale their businesses in their market.

How did the franchise business start? How did you— like, I think franchising is one of several different growth paths and not suited for everyone. How did you start that? Why did you decide that was a good idea? And talk about the origination of that and then maybe like what you learned about what makes for good franchising after that.

Sure. Yeah, I mean, when I go back to when we launched, you know, it was about a year after I'd started that we launched the franchise concept. And I remember the team at the time kind of building out the business case to franchise or expand corporately and presenting both options to the board and kind of going back and forth around it. One of the things that we started to realize is that, you know, our business is so community-focused, right? You're building relationships in the community. You've got to know it. It's the PTA, it's the church groups, it's the, you know, hospital social worker that's going to refer, you know, care. It's so community-based. And so we realized we wanted community leaders that were going to help build this business. And I think that was the right decision. You know, you fast forward 20 years and here we are. And I think it was being really thoughtful about, okay, why, why are we, you know, why is this business conducive to franchising? And then I think, you know, we obviously started slow and make sure we got them, make sure we got the model right, built those initial systems. Found the right franchise partners. We started in our home market here in Canada, in BC, but really understanding who we're looking for, what support do they need to be successful, and systematizing that so that we could cast a wider net and work with folks that had healthcare experience, that didn't have healthcare experience, that, you know, maybe had sales experience, maybe didn't. So we wanted to make sure we could cast a broad enough net, but in order to do that, the systems needed to support a wide variety of prospective franchise partners, right? I think to the second question you asked around like what makes for good franchising or good fran— we look at what is the skill sets that we're looking for. And I'd say there's really 3 things that we've learned are really important in our business. And the first is that sales aptitude. And I think this can apply for a lot of businesses. When you're starting at zero, those franchisees have to get out there and be visible, drive the marketing, talk to people, not be daunted by that part of the business. And so that sales aptitude becomes super important. The second piece is leadership. We want people that have that ability to lead teams, to scale, because what we learned over time is that, you know, a franchise partner can have success, but if that success is based purely off of their work and their brand in their local market, the business will plateau. And the equity value of the business is built off of that franchisee being able to remove themselves from the business. In order to do that, They've got to build a team, they've got to motivate them, they've got to lead them. And then the last piece, I think, I mean, very simply, work ethic, right? I think a lot of people are going from the corporate world into, you know, a franchise concept or even into just entrepreneurship. And that shift from, not saying everyone's thinking 9 to 5, but that mentality of like your business is going to require a lot of work. And we're very clear of setting expectations with partners that you're going to be working, you know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week, maybe more in the first 15 to 18 months. Like, you've got to be willing to put that work into it. And once we figured that out, I think we really started to see a lot of success with, with our franchisees.

You know, it's interesting, my book, uh, that we— I opened with talking about, we'll close with— Busy Is Broken, right? Is the idea that it, like, it does take us a certain amount of, uh, push, personal push, effort, time to go into start and grow a business, right? And, and a certain amount of hours. And then you have to step back and you have to mod— moderate it and you have to elevate your team and that kind of thing. And then, you know, maybe you could run for mayor at some point, which is a full-time job in itself. But only you could do a side thing because you've built a whole team and you've, and you've empowered people and, and you've passed things on in a particular way. But even in the beginning thing, like, um, if you go from a corporate world, you could put in as many hours as well, but it's about the broadness of your thinking that's different. So it, I think most of our audience is already past that, but corporate people put in a lot of time. Uh, entrepreneurs put in a lot of time, business owners, founders put in a lot of time. The difference though, I think, is that what— how much you think about that role after hours. You know, when I had a corporate— some corporate jobs in the past, I didn't always think about it as much as I do in when I own the business. So it tends to invade every other part of my life in a bigger way. And I have a broader perspective, like I own the whole thing. I don't just have a piece of a thing.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I love that. If I could just say, I love that concept of busy is broken because you can fill your calendar up with a whole bunch of things that are not going to drive the business. I think that's such a great concept to drive. You know, even the most experienced entrepreneur. Yeah, like even for myself, like I think it's always a question like, is this the right thing to be working on? Do I have the white space? Am I thinking about the business broadly enough? Because you're right, busy can be broken. Right. And we train, we teach our franchisees that because they can fill up their whole day working on spreadsheets, doing things that are not driving revenue. And that's the most important thing in the first year or two of the business, right?

I think a lot of people don't realize, um, the motive. Like, we get busy and we stay busy because we're afraid, because we don't trust, because our identity is solely around the business, because we are just out of habit because we live in a world that venerates busyness. We, um, we have all of these different like motivators that push us to be unthinkingly busy, right? Like, and I think naturally we are busy, engaged people. We have ambition, that kind of thing. But I, but I want to bring more thoughtfulness to all of it and then, and then know the value of stepping away. You know, I had a thing I was trying to build with AI a few weeks ago, and it was like it wasn't working. And I spent a whole bunch of hours on it in one day, and it was getting worse, what I was doing, the results that I was getting out of this thing instead of getting better. And I'm like, okay, enough, I got to go. And I left and I went surfing and, and I'm out there on the water and I suddenly had the insight like, oh, That's what I was doing wrong. And then I went back and now when my head was totally down and I was obsessed in it, I couldn't see it. And then when I pulled back and now I'm out there riding and I'm feeling good and that kind of thing and I'm carving left and right and I'm like, oh, that's what it was. It was the way I structured the whole thing, the underlying thing. And now it was too much in one little piece of it. Right. And, and I missed something. And like, that is so useful, which is probably also what's useful about being in a franchise group would be like you could share with others about what you're grappling with.

Yeah, it's amazing what space can do for clarity, right? That space you took, and, and all of a sudden you have clarity, right?

It's just a simple kind of thing. And then like, how do you pull back for a minute? And too often getting people to say, stop, go do something else, go, go skiing, go take a walk, go like go out to dinner, like pull back. That, like, at some point you're— it's 3 in the morning and you're obsessing on it and it's not going to get any better. That's right.

Yeah, yeah. Waking up in a cold sweat doesn't help, right? So it's take the time, you know, to, to get that clarity.

I still do it. I, I did last week on something and I was spinning with a problem, and then after a while I realized I wasn't going to go. I, I woke my wife up. I said, I I'm sorry, I gotta talk to you. I need, like, my own head internal conversation is not good. I need to bring in a new brain to this.

That's awesome.

And it was good. Like, then now, then she was awake. And so, but that is the trade-off of a good partnership. So when you, uh, when you think about the franchise, franchisor, so I'd love for you to, to maybe share an example or paint a picture What is the franchisee getting and what is the franchisor providing? And maybe in your case, or fundamentally, like, why not just build your own thing? Why franchise? Why franchise out to do expansion and why use a franchise? Yeah.

So I think why franchise out, I think, is based on kind of the concept you have. How do you want to develop the business and the brand. I think obviously it allows for probably more rapid expansion of the brand. But more importantly, you know, is it conducive to it? So as I mentioned earlier, that focus on, you know, the community-based kind of business that we have, we want to find leaders in the community. In terms of why franchise, it's a great question. I actually don't think franchising is for everyone. And we're very clear about that. If, if a franchisee or a prospective franchisee is looking for, hey, I just kind of want to use the brand, but then I want to do my own thing. I want to run my own business, run my own systems, and not really answer to anyone. That's not for us. Right. And quite honestly, that's not a great franchisee. They should not be acquiring a franchise. They should be running their own business. We're looking for people that are entrepreneurial but are wanting to follow a system and a recipe for success and kind of build within that framework. Right. And I'd say the value, obviously training and support. We've been in the business for 20— 5 years as an organization, that understanding of the business and the market and the methodology for growth I think is so important. And what you— what the franchisee needs in the first, say, 3 years is very different. We have franchisees that are almost 20 years old. They need very different things at that stage. So when I think back to, you know, a franchisee in their first year, we're super prescriptive. Here's your schedule day to day. Here's what you need to do. And Not everyone's gonna love that level of prescription, right? But we know that it leads to success. It puts you in the best position anyways to have success. And so, we're super prescriptive, right? Everything from sales and marketing to recruiting and hiring to finance, everything. And then, as the business grows and scales, what they need looks different, right? In year 5, in year 8, in year 10, now it's about leadership and scaling and how do we develop teams and how do we help peer learning happening? Right. So how are we connecting that partner that's in, you know, maybe in Los Angeles, connect with that partner who's in New Mexico that are having similar challenges, they're at similar levels. And I think that's as much a part of the value of the franchise concept as those early years of high direction and high support. Right. And so I think that's, you know, at a higher level what franchising, I think, offers and the value that's there. I'd say for us, you know, we also really focused on a key differentiator, which was, centralizing some operations. So, you know, when you think about our particular business, it's very 24/7. You know, you're getting calls around the clock. Most home care owners burn out. When our team, you know, first launched the concept, they launched around centralizing that. We're the only franchisor in our industry that, that takes the scheduling component on for the franchisee. And so I think when folks are looking for a franchise concept, like, what really sets them apart in their industry? And we can talk more about that, but probably not in a great level of detail here. We were really focused on what is our tangible differentiator.

So when you are creating a franchise program, right, and you're interacting, what do they get from you?

Right. So I think it starts with that initial training, onboarding, support, right? How do every aspect of launching the business— yeah, I think the brand Yeah, the plan, the recipe. I think the brand, um, the maturity of our brand is quite high, right? So everything has a campaign, you know, the brand identity is there, the campaigns to go out there and market and sell the, the concept in, in market. Um, and then that ongoing coaching and support becomes so critical, right? As they're going through the business, as I mentioned earlier, there's going to be peaks and valleys. How do you get through them? What are the strategies? Um, our franchisees, I think, really value that we're always there behind them. It's not a concept that's sort of like, here's the operating model, off you go. It's very relational. And in the early days, we're speaking to them almost daily, right, to help them build that business. And again, I think what they get later on is what does it look like at year 5? How do you scale the business? You know, we have a whole program around scaling the franchise and bringing in management teams so that the franchisee can eventually step out of the business. That to to me is the value over the long term. And then the last piece I'll say is, is that support around the clock. For us in our particular business, you know, being able to provide that tangible support to their clients and caregivers 24/7 so that the franchisee doesn't have to do that makes this business much more scalable.

So if I'm a McDonald's franchise operator, they're going to send me my French fries and my coffee beans and, you know, all kinds of things like that. What do you actually give them day to day in terms of services or things like that?

Yeah, so I mean, I think the training and support's the biggest part of it, right? Is the Foundations training, the tools and collateral, the operations manual, the campaigns. To me, that's a big part of— it's a service offering, right? It's, you know, I think about even as an example, it's not just the franchisee training. What's centralized is all of the Care Designer training, the management level training, the training for the individual caregiver in market, that's centralized. So it's all done through our central office. So our franchisees can focus really on two things: recruiting and hiring, and sales and marketing. Everything else is really provided to them, right, for that, in that package to follow. There's no french fries in our business, but there's a secret sauce to driving revenue in market and doing that at scale and doing that with speed, right? So I think that's what our franchisees really value. And obviously we've had success. Success, 400 units, 4 countries. You know, it's really about— and I think what's underestimated in the market is service-based franchisors provide a significant opportunity, not just NurseXStore. I'm saying just generally building out a service business where you don't have, you know, the ceiling of, say, seats in a restaurant, right? You don't have that upper-end ceiling of the business. When our franchisees are in a market, they don't have that. Their business can grow. As much as they're wanting to build out in their market, right? They don't have that same kind of restriction in place. And so a service-based business, home care, other industries, I think really provides that, that opportunity.

A couple of companies that I've coached have been franchise, either franchised or franchise licensees. And so they've, they've been on both sides of it. And it's interesting to me where entrepreneurism comes in and where it doesn't. So one, uh, a group of hair salons and the, the principal innovation beyond the just applying the recipe well was, um, a change in innovation in their promotions, especially around the launch. So they were able to get profitable faster and do more efficient promotions to get started than was recommended. They did one little innovation there. I've got a client now, last few years, that has grown a series of— actually, they're featured in the book too, so we can say who they are. It's Tony Hartle at Crunch Fitness. Undefeated Tribe is his operation within that, and he has rights to a number of states, and they built out a bunch of them. But so there's a playbook around opening a gym, there's a playbook around operating a gym, and those playbooks are getting refine and refine beyond what Crunch Fitness gives them. And then there's a particular innovation around the market partner, the people that run the operations and the kind of their motivation, the way they're hired, their compensation, that is a unique thing to them that has had them growing. And this is a company that, you know, went from startup just a handful of years ago to, will be over 100 gyms and a billion-dollar value very soon, you know.

Wow.

So, like, that's incredible. Yeah, amazing. But, and so there is a place for innovation in that kind of thing, and I wonder if what you see that's come out of innovations from your franchise partners versus what you provide them, and when that's appropriate or not appropriate.

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think what we see is, is partners unlocking different revenue opportunities in market, right? And then I see it. I mean, the greatest example that I think a lot of folks in franchising know is that the Big Mac was invented by a franchisee. I think everyone's heard that story. And, you know, for us, what we see is, you know, our core business is senior care. We keep, you know, an aging family member in home, at home. And then you see in certain markets there's different opportunities that present themselves. And I remember in the US it was the VA opportunity was, was something that was sort of built within a franchise location. And we saw that, supported them, and then scaled that across the country. Massive opportunity. You know, in Australia it was disability services, right?

And seeing that— that's your providing services to VA benefit recipients?

Correct. Yeah, correct. That's right. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, seeing that, or in, in one of our markets up here, there was providing services for children, special needs children. And so those innovations coming in, and, you know, it's not a new burger, but it's a different way and different market we can go after and building, you know, these supplementary revenue streams become really tangible for franchisees. And it gives us a model to say, okay, here's what it looks like and here's how you can go after it. So that value certainly is there. And then I think the other thing too, I'd say innovation from our side has been a lot around leadership development. So we built an entire program around leadership development because we started to see is 20 years ago, we launched our franchise system. Of course, you're thinking long term, but some of those innovations come later on, and we realize we need to support franchise partners to build those larger teams, to build their management teams, to build leadership within their organization. So we call it Bold Kindness. It's our leadership philosophy, and providing that across our system has led to a lot of great innovation within the market.

You know, I heard about a book recently that some of your franchise operators might like. It's about Recognizing when they're too busy and then rethinking.

They probably will. Yeah.

I'm so naked in my self-promotion.

That's the best way though.

Yes, maybe they should read Busy Is Broken. I'll send you 200 copies. Or 400, it is, right? So That's a good book sale for me. So I think it'd be interesting to think about, like, what— maybe there's some stories that you could share with us where it went badly, where it wasn't the right fit, where it didn't work out. You know, you can anonymize, but maybe you could paint a picture of what doesn't work, because I think that's as helpful often as what like what works.

So I'll tell you a story. So I was on a call today. So our discovery process is about 90 days long, right? So as we get to know a candidate, their interests, their experiences, etc., it ends with what we call a final interview day, discovery day, kind of very common language to use in franchising, where we meet— they meet the team, we spend a whole day with them. But right before that, that day, I have a call with virtually every prospective franchisee. And I was on a call this morning and speaking with a prospective franchisee that had been researching the business for, you know, probably 45 days. And I realized in the call that this franchisee was not the right fit for our business. And they're about ready to commit themselves to it and pay a franchise fee and do all those things. And, you know, it's not easy, right? Like, you're looking at me like, okay, well, maybe they'll be successful. But they're not the right fit for our business. And I think 20 years ago, 15 years ago, I think we made them— I made the mistake of maybe allowing for that. Not consciously, right? It's like you're trying to grow and you think they've got some skill set and it's great and you move forward. And today on the call, I said, this is not the right fit, right, for you.

Yeah.

And so we're ending— we ended— I ended the process right there and then and did it in the right way. And you know, as much for them as for us. But what I learned over the years is that dealing with the wrong partner is way more brain damage than it's worth, right? It's just, it doesn't work. And quite honestly, is bad for both groups, right? It's, you know, they're investing financial, you know, resources, they're investing time. Quite honestly, they're investing their life, right? And they have families and they have goals and dreams. And to go forward when you don't believe it's the right fit is the wrong thing to do. So, to me, that's been a big learning is making sure we're really clear on who's going to be— not to say we're going to get it perfect every time. But if you can cut down on those mistakes, you're going to grow a lot faster in the long run.

You know, it sounds a little bit like calling off the wedding as you approach the altar, right? Like, we're gonna— we're not going to go through with this marriage. And but we're— everybody's here, everybody's dressed up. We're like, we're right about to say I do. And then you're like, yeah, maybe not. And I think a lot of times in business and in life, you have like a gut and then sometimes you just go through it out of inertia like you. And then— but it actually, although that's awkward in that moment, it's more expensive later to— in every sense to dissolve a marriage, a business, uh, than, than just before you've done it. So even if you've invested a lot to get there, and I, I think that there's like a— there's the gut that tells you maybe this isn't a good idea, and then I do think you need to like inspect. Well, wait a minute, why do I think that? Am I facts right? Like, I want to sort of double-check before I then bail on a thing.

Yeah, I mean, it's not— yeah, you certainly don't want to be reactive, but I think When you have that feeling, you have to listen to it. You have to pay attention to it. And I think it's a really great point you raise is ask yourself, well, how do we get here? Right? What is our system broken? Is there something that needs to evolve there? And sometimes the answer is yes. Sometimes the answer is no. Like we got to that stage and this is the point of that call. But being able to and having the courage to sort of say no, right? Or in some cases, it might be to fire a client, right? It might be to say no to a revenue opportunity. Like you have to be able to make those decisions.

Years ago, we spent considerable time and energy winning an account with Macy's and Bloomingdale's. And, you know, it was very prominent, like huge retailer, big opportunity for us. A lot of work went into getting to that point. And we're, we're going through the handshaking process of getting our distribution set up. Going through the orders and things like that. And in it, I saw that the fundamental relationship there was unlike our other stores. It was very adversarial and always like pushing the supplier on their back foot, pressuring to unseat, unbalance you and the whole thing, and not to help through with partnership. Like, we have to win together. It wasn't a win-win thing. It was like let me push you and see how far I can push you and, and dangle the carrot of like, this is worth millions. And, and, and I— so I called for some help with one of the operational matters to the principal buyer, whose motivation should have been for the partnership to work up. And, and they were pretty hostile to me in response. And I, and I paused for a second. And my gut was like, oh, it's, it's off, this is not right. And, uh, and then I'm like, I did like quick, like rational picking apart of what I felt emotionally in that moment. And I said, you know, I feel like maybe this, that, that if this is the way it is at this point, that maybe we shouldn't be doing this. Like, like this is get not It's going to get worse from here. This is a point where it should be more like rosy, if anything. And, and, and then her reaction was very like hostile, like, like pushing back on me. And I was like, huh, okay, well, I guess we should stop this project. And I like ended it in that call, right? I went from trying to solve a problem to ending a multimillion-dollar relationship. On in one phone call. I did go through the spaces, I did check a little bit on it, but it was— and she just was livid, like, how dare you, kind of, you know, like, I can't believe this. And now I'm sure at that point she'd had some investing in, in time and energy in it as well, so she, she wanted to go for it. But, but there was no breaking of character there.

Well, that probably— and that probably validated your feeling, right? It's like this—

yeah, I was like, oh. And I got off and I was like, okay, that was all uncomfortable and I'm a little shaken, but I feel like I dodged a bullet. Like, yeah, I'm glad I backed away. Yeah.

And it cost millions of dollars, but maybe saved you more in the long run, right?

Like, maybe save me more. Avoided that early heart attack. Yeah. Hey, uh, we're kind of running out of time. I'd love for you to share, because we've had on, uh, the others before, what have you learned or watched in, uh, working with Ken over the years? Like, yeah, and I, this is, I mean, um, I realize like he's a friend, it's all very public, but So, you know, share what you can say.

I think Ken's been— yeah, Ken's been a great sort of mentor in, you know, taking chances, right? And not being afraid about, you know, making a mistake or being wrong. You know, I think even, you know, you have to have super thick skin to be in politics, and I commend him for what he's done there. But I think one of the things I've just taken away, even just through osmosis with Ken, is is, you know, not being afraid, right, um, to take those chances. And, and, you know, I think about— I've been asked to do things here that I've never done before, right? Hey, you know, lead our US business. Hey, let's expand into Australia. I've never done that before. Um, and, and not being afraid, not having that hold you back, not having a lack of experience hold you back. So now you have to make up for that lack of experience in different ways. But to me, that was a big piece of it is not being afraid to do things that are uncomfortable. And I think, you know, even our CEO, like one of the things she always focuses on is like growth happens when you're uncomfortable, right? That's, you know, I think that's so important to know that when you're feeling uncomfortable, that's probably a good thing. You're in a growth place, right? Or you have the opportunity to grow.

That's a brilliant little thought to finish on. The discomfort is useful, is growth-oriented, and makes us alive. And we accomplish things that we had no idea what we could do. Past shows, you can go find them with Kathy and with Ken, Kathy Thorpe Kinson. And we talked to them. So you might be interested after hearing this conversation. Arif, that's so helpful. If you want to know more about Nurse Next Door, nursenextdoorfranchise.com is Arif's part of the business. I love— I really appreciated our conversation today. Thank you so much for coming on and joining us.

Thanks for having me.

And in case you hadn't heard, I have a book coming out, Busy Is Broken. It's out now. As you get this, busiesbroken.com is the website. We'll have the diagnostic, some extra things there. Go preorder, order, wherever, whenever you're hearing this, any format you like to listen to a book. I narrate the book for the audiobook. Kindle and, um, hardcover, softcover, like whatever you want. Uh, it's all there, uh, wherever you get them. It should be everywhere— Amazon, etc. So, um, busysbroken.com. Uh, thanks again everyone for watching, for listening. Until next time, keep scaling. Thanks to Wanda, to Vern, all the rest. Keep scaling. Busy's Broken, all that. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening today. One last thing. If anything in this episode hit home, my book digs into it further. Busy Is Broken: Do Less, Scale More. It's all about how to stop drowning in work and build a business and a team that scales without you. Available right now with content samples at busyisbroken.com. Go grab it. Be less busy.