PoolTogether Community Podcast #12: Richard

This is the PoolTogether Community Podcast. PoolTogether is the world's number one no-loss prize savings account. You can visit pooltogether.com to deposit. You're listening to the PoolTogether Community Podcast, and listen, we're talking to Richard today, and as soon as I hit record, there was gold. So I'm not even gonna edit it. I'm just adding a little voiceover here to introduce you to the podcast. Here we go. I'm gonna let it rip.

And I'm gonna get Jark in here, although Jark's been— well, there we go.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, feel free to get, you know, whoever wants to join us up here. I wish Oops was, you know, up here. Shout out, you know, to Oops.

Shout out Oops. Seriously.

Yeah.

I was just listening to your November 10th podcast of the Richard Show.

Were you? Okay.

Yes. Nuggets of gold, my friend. I love the dynamic between you and Oops. I love that.

There was something there, right? There was definitely something there.

There's magic.

There's definitely chemistry.

It's like this, you're the eternal optimist, you get, you're this visionary, and Oops is like, no, no, bump that, bump that. No, no. They're trying to rip you off, Richard. They're trying to rip you off.

Oh no, that, that was a, that was a classic. That was actually one of my favorite, you know, speaking about like the stablecoins with Oops. Yeah. I was like, oh man.

Yeah. I mean, you guys were talking about Matcha and, and how you were pumped about like no fees.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oops is like, oh, the fees are in there, brother. The fees are in there. And you're like, can't I just Can't I just like the fact that I'm not paying fees on stuff?

You know, like I'm not being charged the fees beforehand, you know, and I'm being charged the fees like afterwards. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. Yeah. No, I recommend, you know, everyone and anyone to listen to that. They'll get at least a good chuckle out of it.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so we've already started, but yeah, yeah, yeah, they're already recording, but we've got the magic of editing so I can, I can do the intro. So I'll do this right now. You're listening to the Pool Together Community Podcast. I'm here with Richard. Nothing that we are going to say is financial advice. We're just spitballing. We're just having a good time and we're having a good time with you, the Pool Together Community. Look at all you beautiful profile pictures in the, in the group here. What's up? Props to all the PoAP farmers. Props to all the, all the Participants here, and there's the chat. We got the chat. So you gotta be in the chat and you gotta submit your questions for Richard because I, if I have a feeling about things and I have a feeling about things, today's conversation is gonna be epic. So welcome, Richard. Welcome.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Great intro. Thanks a lot. That is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, no, I mean, typically, you know, from what you've heard, like there's no agenda, you know, like And then the way I actually even talk, you know, in general is just like we could jump from one thing to another, you know? So that's totally fine with me, you know, in the sense like it could be, you know, just one topic or, you know, like one protocol, one project, you know, just as long. And, you know, you feel free to kind of like, no, no, wait, wait, Richard. You know, you kind of just leave me because I tend to like Here's the thing. It's like drop gems, right? Or drop alpha. And I was like, wait, what did he say? That's right.

You're the river. You are the river and I am the banks, right? And all I'm doing is just channeling the flow of Richard during this conversation, right? So you, you're, this is easiest job I have because you're just going to talk and then I'm going to be like, what? What? The whole time. And we'll clarify. So Richard, if you could start out. Just because, you know, the PoolTogether community is a beautiful thing. It's always ever evolving. We always have new people. We always have— so, so, and you pop up in community calls, you pop up in places and people might be like, who is this guy? So who is this guy? Who are you? Can you, can you give us a little intro to yourself?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, sure. Yeah. No, like, who am I is just like, I'm similar to like, A lot of people on this call, you know, in the sense that, you know, we love crypto, we want to invest in crypto, and, you know, we like these projects and we want to be a part of these projects. My only kind of like difference, again, like to everybody else, you know, like maybe listening here or, you know, again, who's in crypto, is just that I've been here, you know, for like a couple of years already, you know. So it's like, think about it, you go into like a college kind of class and course And it's just like, wait, that guy's still here in the same class? It's like, yeah, but I'm not longer here, you know, to learn. I'm, you know, I, I could be here, you know, more to teach just based on the fact that, again, like I've, I've been here. But, um, yeah, no, my role is, um, or, you know, at least like the persona and the role that I try to create is not more of, you know, on the developer side, but it's more like You know, how can I say, like, I tend to get very passionate and I fall in love very easily with things, you know, like, again, even like an app or, you know, like a product. So I've always said, like, it's like seeing a, you know, a good book or a movie, you know, like you want your friends, you want your family to see it. So you also don't wanna do it like too kind of like persistently, right? Or too much pressure in the sense of like, hey, you gotta watch this film. You gotta watch, you know, you gotta read this book. So, you know, you try to do it as kind of like nicely, gradually, you know, as approachable as possible. Like, hey, try PoolTogether, you know, or like try this. But then, like, as I noticed, right, like all the people, you know, who exist, you know, in crypto, you know, from your DeFi Dad, you know, from like Bankless, again, they're personable people. Like, you know, you could see like we all are obviously, right? We're all humans. But Like, we all have good intentions, you know, like we're coming across information, we know of things, and we just want to share, you know, in one way or another what we know. So it's, you know, it's more like kind of like, you know, providing information and helping people because, again, the way I see like crypto in general is just like this is a journey, you know, like this is one, one big game that we're all playing. You know, but I feel that when it pertains to games, like, now this kind of goes back even like to when I used to play video games, which was many years ago, even though I play some games with my son now from time to time. But it's like, all right, there's levels, you know, you're scoring, you're collecting points, you know, whatever you're shooting, but you're obviously winning. But it's like, all right, stop, look around, who can you help? So somewhat win this game as well. Yeah. You know, or who has questions and how can you kind of like help them move forward, you know, play the game, enjoy the game, you know? So yeah, like that's how I go into it, you know, like every day I myself, you know, I consider myself to be a student, you know, of the game. So I'm always learning, I'm always trying, but, you know, I don't wanna come off like, oh man, you know, that guy knows it all. Or, you know, it's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not, you know, like. I try to always be, you know, as humble as possible. And like I tell you, I'm just a sponge. But yeah, that's pretty much me. But see, this is the moment, Tim, where you got to be like, stop. Oh no. Because I could run, you know, I could run along. Then it's like you start taking out the violin. It's just like, nah.

Well, listen, listen. One of the tactics I learned about being an adult Is that adults, adults don't speak. They don't fill silences. They, they let, they let, uh, silence happen and then interesting things come out of the silence. But dude, I hate silence. So I wanna be like, I was just gonna say that.

Yeah. I cannot stand silence. Like even in conversations, I'm like, look, you know, say anything, talk. Or like even in general, like at home, like I gotta listen to music, like sound to me is what kind of, you know, again, keeps me going, you know? And yeah, it doesn't make me fall asleep or anything like that. But yeah, yeah. Like, it's, that's what I'm saying. Like, this is all, again, this is all like very fun to me. Like, I enjoy this.

Yeah. See, it's in the silence where the Juicy Alpha comes out. So that's why.

It is. You know, like I said, I'll drop as much as possible. Yeah. And also like, I'll share like how I come across things, you know, like I don't mind doing that. I know.

Definitely want to know that stuff. I want to know that stuff. And listen, Richard, I want to make it clear though that we, we are, we're all listening to you because of you and not how you're going to make us all rich. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, not at all. Yeah. Like I wish that's honestly like, that's, that's my, uh, that's my wish, you know, and desire for everybody. But yeah, like I'm not, you know, just that disclaimer again, like I'm not a financial advisor. You know, like anything that I share is like, it's all for informational purposes. But I will tell you this, just kind of like in general. So value, right? And gains can be obtained via content and information, but it obviously all depends on how you act to it, you know? So like once you kind of see things on your radar and like you see it again and again and you look at price and like where price currently stands, it's like, all right, Do I buy it or I don't? You know, and then like if you didn't buy it and you see that price goes up, it's like, yeah, you know, blame yourself. Like you got no one else to blame. Yeah. Yeah.

But, um, that's right.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said, it's— yeah, go ahead.

The chat says, listen, they don't want to be rich. They want to be like Rich. I want to be, I want to be like Rich.

Oh man. Let me, yeah, you know what? Let me, let me go through the chat right now. Also the channel. Um, just so I can, I can stay kind of like abreast of that. All right. Okay, cool.

So while you're doing that, I got a question for you, or not even a question, but just like, I think you have the greatest pinned tweet of all time.

Yeah. Yeah. That, that's even though I just updated it today. Um,

it

was seriously— if you go to the tweet, you know, so this is the tweet. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's go look at it.

I will let you go to it and Tell you how I felt this morning when I tweeted it.

No, no, this is the one. This is the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your pinned tweet is still the the I've just bought my first Bitcoin on Coinbase from 2015 November 20th, 2015.

That's crazy.

That's what that's your pinned tweet, correct? That's the one I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I put I put a tweet. Say again?

Was it something else before that?

No, no, no, no, no, no. I put something after that. So there should be like a follow-up tweet. that I actually tweeted this morning, just kind of based on, again, on, you know, what I'm seeing, you know, like what I'm hearing and what I, you know, what has happened, um, kind of like personally, you know, to like friends and family of mine.

Yeah, I see.

So, you know, just, you know, for those— yeah, my Twitter account. And again, everything that I do online is like @RLiriano. So it's R for Richard, Liriano is my last name. So I, I don't go through any like anonymous account. Like I I purposely put myself again on the web or just like, yeah, like on the web, @rliviano for everything like Twitter, Instagram. So the reason being with, you know, in between that is like, wait, is this Richard? Is this— it's like, yeah, that's me everywhere. You know, like, you know, I'm not going to go in under another name. And luckily, like, since it's my first initial last name, like, you know, when I'm creating the username, like, it's available. So it works out great. So, you know, so, you know, going even before the crypto, like, you know, as a techie, you know, and someone who loves like technology, like I'll tell you, like, you know, one of those sites that I use is Product Hunt, you know, which has been around for a couple of years already, which is basically, you know, where developers and founders, you know, launch their kind of like product or service, you know, and it kind of gets like, how can I say, like hunted, you know, where you kind of like, like it. And you'll see, you know, like how many people, I'm sorry, it doesn't get hunted. It gets like, like hunted is when you first post it. So, um, yeah, like you'll see, all right, you know, pull together, like, you know, somebody posted it or somebody hunted it. Oh, look, now it has, you know, like 300 kind of like likes and stuff like that. So that's how I come across like a lot of products and services, like before they launch, you know, and I'm the type of person, like, I like trying and testing Instagram before it became Instagram, you know, like Dropbox before it came Dropbox. Like I remember. When Gmail first came out, I would kind of like reach out to all my friends like, hey, do you have Gmail? Can you send me an invite? You know, like, that's me. But I mean, like, like if I was fiending for it, like I need it, you know, I needed it, you know? So it's that kind of thing. So, you know, Twitter, I've been around since, yeah, since like it was like before it was TWTTR. Like that was the domain before. Like, again, I'm old school, you know? So like I've been— Online for like almost half my life, you know? So, yeah. So when I came across, how can I say, Bitcoin, and when I first purchased it, you know, at that time and at that price, it was for my own kind of like purpose, right? Just kind of like putting a record out there like, oh, you know, like I just purchased Bitcoin. And also they had, you know, like a referral, you know, like refer friends and family to get this. I was like, all right, like this is a good way to make, you know, money or something like that. But, yeah, like, it's, it's a tweet which I see it today and it just like, wait, like 7 years has passed already. And, and I'll say it, you know, full transparency, you can never buy enough of any token that you want, you know, like let it be Bitcoin, Ethereum, whatever it is. So, you know, do I have gains from those Bitcoins? Like, yeah, obviously, you know, but it's just like I didn't buy 100 Bitcoin, you know, like Did buy a good amount, you know, but I decided to kind of like use those, you know, as inheritance for my kids, you know. So that's kind of like my strategy on it. Yeah. So that, that's kind of like the story behind that tweet. The update to, you know, that I mentioned today is that Coinbase, you know, I understand, I get it. You know, they're an exchange, a crypto exchange, you know, especially in the United States. And they have to follow, you know, certain federal rules, you know, with like anti-money laundering. KYC, know your customer. But it got to a point where, you know, they're asking for users like, you know, 3 months of bank statements and they're closing accounts, you know, for whatever reason. So that, you know, brings a very important topic, you know, about the centralized version of crypto and the decentralized version. So to me, obviously, like, I'm a strong kind of like advocate of decentralized. Because again, it's like you having— how can I tell you, like any device or just anything in general, like say for example, yeah, like a crypto wallet is just like, yeah, you could do this. No, no, no, you can't do that. Oh no, you can't do that. You know, you could come to your wallet and it's just like it's frozen. It's just like, well, what's going on? You know, for whatever reason, you kind of lose a lot of control of, again, of what you own. So, um, yeah, this is the moment where we pause. You ask me a question, Tim.

Yeah.

And just stop me from running my mouth.

No, I just like, it's fun, uh, the silence and how you react to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim, Tim, where are you? Tim, ask me

a question. Tim, Tim, Tim, Tim, Tim, are you here? Oh my God, he fell asleep again. Tim.

No, Richard, that's a super— this is your superpower. You have, you have many superpowers, but one of your, your main ones is the, is your, your Your ability for input, just how vast, the vast amount of information that you can take in, process, right? And through whatever methods of research you have, or even just your gut, identify projects that you are interested in, that you want to, that you find value in, and where you want to put your time. And you did that with Bitcoin while you were doing other stuff, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were looking at Bronacon, you were techy, right? So you were looking at video games, you were looking at—

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Apple products, you're looking at PC, you're looking at the whole spectrum. And what, what makes you fall in love with something, Richard? You say you fall in love a lot. And how do you fall in love and how do you stay?

Yeah. How do

you, how do you commit to the relationship?

Yeah.

You're not a lifer. You just crush a lot. Right?

Right. No, no. I, I like to tell you, um, listen, there's certain kind of like within my DNA and again, like there's no off to this, you know, crypto stocks, you know, whatever it is, investing, like there's the, the researching, Richard. And it, you know, it all comes down to like just coming across a lot of data, you know, or content, you know, where let it be like, you know, from the articles, you know, that I share from like VCs investment, like new launches, you know. So like it's all this public information. So the way I see it is just like, all right, how do, how do I monetize it? How do I get value? You know, out of it or within it, you know, by kind of investing in it. So what I do is, like I said, is, you know, I start kind of like, it's like if I had seeds, you know, so I just plant, you know, small seeds, you know, I'll invest in this, you know, and I'll invest in like in different companies. But obviously when it pertains to investment, you know, it's all kind of like an investing ratio. Like, again, comparing it to like a sports player, you know, like a musician, an artist. To me, a lot of things are You know, a lot of things and pretty much everything is relative in the sense it, it all comes down to like a win or lose ratio, you know, of how much do you win, how much do you lose. But if you continue in it, there's a high probabili— there's a very high probability that you would win more than what you lose. You know? So yeah, no, from like looking at my own track record, like when I study it, it's just like, Yeah. So like I bought Bitcoin at, let's say, $300, $300 or $400. But 2 years later, like I bought Ethereum at $10, you know, and like you see where it's at now. But like I've had again, like a lot of, you know, a lot of successes to the point where anyone would say like, why are you still in it? It's just like, yeah, I'm obviously not in it, you know, for the gains or the money. Like I'm in it for like the, the game, you know? It's like, it's like seeing like a LeBron or Jordan, you know, like playing, you're like, you know, when are you going to retire? Excuse me. Like, when are you going to retire? It's like, I'm not— I'm never going to retire. Like, like, this is what I do, you know, for the rest of my life, you know, like whether I like it or not, you know, what I just got to try to do is, again, continue to improve myself, continue to share, you know, again, like what I do and just try to make things, you know, better, you know, overall from, from whatever, you know, I see. But I'll tell you—

So you said— yeah, yeah. You said you'd like to win. And obviously everyone likes to win, but what is a win for you? Because there is that financial gain win, there's the community win, right? You can happen upon a project, you're like, wow, this community is awesome. I really don't think they're gonna succeed. They're not gonna 10x my investment, but these people are really cool and maybe something else comes out of it. So what is a win for you? Does that change? Are you always looking for that sweet spot?

Yeah, no, so definitely, yeah, no, it's a combination. How can I say it's a combination of, of a couple of things. Like, I'll tell you, you know, again, from, from friends of mine that I speak, you know, in the financial world, like a 2x or 3x is great. But when you have like a 300x or a 400x, like that just changes things. And the way I see it, it's like you're driving in a certain car, but then you, now you're driving like in a sports car, in a luxury car. And the sense of speed, not of much of price, you know? So like once you're going at that speed, you're like, whoa, Like the adrenaline rush, you're like, I want more. You know, like I want to be able to accomplish more. So that's what I'm saying. Like, I think like my kind of like my home run or, you know, the Hall of Fame for me will be like 1,000x. You know, like I have yet to do that, you know, and it sounds crazy, but, you know, I personally feel that it's, you know, it's definitely doable, you know. But yeah, no, I'll tell you, like, Again, even just giving an example and, you know, let's say even with like Pull Together. So yeah, let's use Pull Together as an example. Like current price and value of the Pull Together, like governor's token is not what it was a couple of months ago. You know, like I hold Pull tokens, you know, have I sold Pull tokens? Yeah. Forgive me, I have. You know, like that's what I'm saying. But besides token, right? pulled together community, pulled together project. Yeah, like I'm always gonna be a member of that. You know, like the token could cease to exist and like the community, the protocol matters to me. You know, like the, how can I say, like the relationship that I've invested in, again, with my time, right? And like the friends that I, in my mind and heart, I feel I've made is not, you know, like it's worth to me. 100 times more than whatever the price of the token could be. Like, you understand? That's right. That's right. Like no other community.

That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, like, a million.

Yeah, I know.

A million. Look, like, so like, look, like I'm in the Discord, right? I pay for the, you know, the Nitro, whatever. Like I'm in 200 servers. So that's like me having 200 girlfriends. Like one treats me excellent. Great. You know, or like, I've got you. But that's what I'm saying. Like, the Pull Together community is like, it's something on its own, you know? Like, I'm telling you, like, even from you, you know, from Oops to like, that's what I'm saying. It's too many people for me to name, you know, where it's just like, look, it's this team. Like, you know, like, and let it be if it's not based on age or sex, but it's just like, it's this group of people that will get together today, tomorrow. Like, you know, some people may take a hiatus. Yeah. But we'll come back together and it's just like nothing has changed, you know? And, you know, to be very clear, 90% of the people like in the community, I don't know, like we've never met, you know? So that's what I'm saying. Like, that to me is like, it's very, very special. And yeah, to welcome new people, you know, if there's new people, we probably lost like 5 people in this call.

No, we gained. We gained. We're 1,000x. That's where we're going.

I see. Here's the thing. Like, I see data and metrics, but I sometimes I don't want to see it. It's just like, oh man, we lost a listener. All right, how do we get them back? But yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, listen, it's a, it's a very welcoming, it's a very good community. Can they, you know, can there be bad actors? Yeah. Like, there's bad actors everywhere, you know?

But what's another community like pulled together? What's another— because you said 200 Discords, bro. I mean, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Too many. I'll tell you, like, I'll tell you, like, so I've got like 2, 2 computers. Like, I'll— that's probably something which again in itself is kind of like crazy, but I'm the type of person who has 2 or 3 of, of like the same things. So like an example, like I have 2 Apple Watches, I've got 2 phones, I've got 2 laptops, and it's just like, why do you need 2? And it's just like, Well, what happens if one goes down? Like, I need another one.

Please tell me you wear both of your Apple Watches simultaneously. Please tell me you have one on your left arm and one on your right arm.

I will do that. I actually have never do that. I'll try to like be a little bling out and wear like both watches to an event or something. No, like I said, that's something that's, Very different. It's very interesting. But like, I even explained to my wife, she's like, why do you need 2 phones? And it's just like, well, you know, I'm multitasking. So like, I'm on Discord on one, WhatsApp on another, like, you know. She's like, and what about the watches? It's like, well, this is the older version. This is the new one. She's like, so why don't you wear the new one? It's like, no, you know, like, what if it gets damaged and I stay with the old one? It's like, I'd rather— I tell you, that's how my brain works. You know, like, that's how I work.

But, you know, Richard, back to the question of is who's, who's, who are other communities that are like that, that are like, oh, because you got 200 Discords. Can you think of other similar? I mean, we're not competing here. We're not competing with your other girlfriends.

No, no, no, no, no. Using your words, not mine. Community. No, no. I'll tell you that to me, the communities is just like you going to a bar or a restaurant, you know, like they all have, you know, they're, they're kind of like vibe, you know, and they're all building, you know, they're all doing things. I like the, you know, the Zapper, obviously Zerion, you know, Furrow Combo, you know, whatever. If those names don't ring a bell, you know, I'll try to explain, you know, what they do. Good ghosting. That's what I'm saying. Like, there's, there's the— I mean, obviously there's a lot of them, but what the point I'm trying to get, get to is just kind of like how welcoming it is. Like, I'll give you an example. So with the role that I play, like with a lot of these protocols, right, is just if I read about them, right, I don't, I don't just wait until like they launch and release, you know? And like, I just read the article. It's like, no, I try to be, you know, proactive. Like I'll reach out to the core team, I'll reach out to the founder and like, how do I reach out is, um, like I'll hit 'em up on Twitter, you know, like I'll send 'em a DM, you know, if they're on Discord, I'll join the Discord, but I won't just, you know, just be in general, I'll look like, all right, who's, you know, who's kind of like the, you know, the core team, like who's, you know, the top admins and I'll DM them, you know, and obviously if their DMs are unlocked, like that helps me. And what I'm pitching them is just, look, I wanna test what you have and I wanna give you feedback as a user. That's it. You know, and, and that's just me again, like seeing a new video game and I wanna try it. I wanna play it. I wanna see the, you know, the inner workings of it, you know, the pros and cons. Like, I wanna see all of that if you give me that opportunity. So I'll tell you, like, I've joined, I, I, you know, I don't wanna bash them or anything like that, but I have joined, you know, like a Discord and it's just like, what do you want? You know, it's just like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm, I'm humbly here. I'd like to test your product and give you feedback for free. You know, like there's companies, Facebook, Google, they do what's called usability studies. You know, which they pay you for your feedback. You know, they'll pay you $50, $75, you know, an hour. And it's just them again building something and they want to get input from the people. So like, I'll get like anyone, you know, who even gives me the time, as you can see, I will gladly tell them anything that comes to my mind, you know, like very openly, very transparently and not critiquing, but obviously providing like constructive criticism. So yeah.

Do you have an example? Do you have an example of a project that has like moved that you did not invest in because they gave you the—

Oh man, that, that would be too many. I, I'd rather talk about the ones that like, yeah, yeah, come on, man. That's— no, look, that—

I mean, I'll give you an example. Like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Could have been your 1,000x. What if your 1,000x has a garbage community and they hate you and you missed your 1,000x? Then so be it.

Is that it? No, no, no. I mean, look, here's, here's an example. So we could go and here's the, here's the great thing. Like even with Discord, like even when I posted the, the news, there are again projects there, which again, like you could see it. He's like, wait, he knew about this project 5 or 6 months ago. Ah, he definitely invested. And it's like, yeah, there's a high chance. Like I probably didn't because again, from like the investing, investing Richard, Like, I'm a one-man team. Like, you know, I'm not a VC. You know, I don't, I don't work for a fund. I kind of manage my own crypto fund, you know, like with friends and family. So that's what I'm saying. But like, I'm one person, you know? So like, I've gotta take, you know, all these, say for example, like seeds and I gotta plant them, you know, as best as I can. So, and, or think of it this way, if I'm a record label, like there's so much talent, there's so many artists like that I could only sign. you know, so much, or, you know, there's only so many kind of like events that I could go to to see how that artist, you know, performs, you know, in order for me to sign them. But yeah, like I'll tell you, like Matic, you know, is a very good example. Like, you know, I came across Matic when it was like 20 or 30 cents, you know, and we could go back. There was just like maybe like a year and a half ago, you know, and I remember like saying like, you know, like, hey, you know, we should look into Matic. You know, like, you should see Matic, you know, we should build on Matic. Like, and now, you know, Matic team even reached out to me because I was like promoting it so much, you know, where they're like, look, you know, we want to work with you. But yeah, like that right there in itself, you know, was, I mean, just even, you know, just a quick calculation, I would say, you know, from an all-time high of Matic at like $2 to, you know, to $0.02, I'm sorry, to $0.30 is like a 6x, you know, which is not that much. But the one, you know, like one of that, I guess like one of my grand slams last year was obviously Axie Infinity, you know, which like from a high all-time high, let's say $145 to like a purchase price of like $0.60 was a 240x, you know, 240, 241x. So that's what I'm saying. Like, That's not common, you know? But again, like, I've done that with other tokens, you know, like, I don't wanna kind of toot my own horn, you know, and stuff like that. But, um, yeah,

no, like, I'm always like, I said, like, what success rate are you going for with your investments? Like, 'cause you gotta be okay with failing, especially, I mean, you're trying out everything, right?

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. Here's, so here's the thing. Like, failure to me in general is actually what helps me to succeed. Like, I'll give you a perfect example. So like one of my latest investments, you know, that I did, and this is more like, so here's kind of like my experience with NFTs, right? As an example, like I've mentioned this, like, you know, I remember when the Bored Apes first came out, you know, and there was a mint price of like $200 and $300. Like I saw them, you know, I just said to myself like, yeah, I can't be buying, you know, You know, like I don't see myself buying, you know, like animals, you know, tokenized version of like animal. Like I didn't see, I'll say it, you know, full transparency, I didn't see the value of it at that time. Like I didn't understand it, you know? And I saw, you know, again, like a lot of my research, you know, pertains to following wallets, you know, on Etherscan. Like I'll just take addresses, you know, I'll delve into them, you know, I'll do copy trading, you know, anything like, again, if I see data, content, information, I try to, you know, utilize it as much as I can. So I saw that, but, you know, I just, I said it like, I, you know, I'll loudly say it again. Like, I was just like, I can't buy, like, I can't buy these, you know, these tokenized NFTs because I personally felt like going to my own inner circle and just be like, hey, I paid $500 for this. Like, not that they would've laughed at me, is that I myself would be like, wait, I just paid $500 for this? But now fast forward to where we're at now, it's just like, yeah, I missed that boat or I missed that train. But that's how I see things. Like you're on the station and you see all these trains passing by. So the trains take you places.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I ask people about their failures though, they generally talk about projects they missed and, and that's great. Awesome. But there's so many projects that you're going to miss some, right?

You're going to miss so many of them. Yeah.

Yeah. But what about things But what about things that you invent, that you did go into, like you, because that, that you, you, and for everything that you go into, you research the community, you like, you go try, is that, is that across the board? That's what you do? Or certain things you just jump into because you're copy trading?

Yeah, yeah, no, that's what I try to do.

Okay, so sometimes you don't, but like generally you do.

So going back to that example, I'm gonna use the Invisible Friends example. So I don't know, you know, how familiar you are, you know, with that NFT.

Oh, I'm very familiar. I bought their bundle hoping that I would be able to get on their whitelist and no, and they still had— So there you go. It's fine.

I did the same thing. I bought 2 bundles and I bought a couple of like Slim Hoods, Mood Rollers, you know, just to get whitelisted. But then I got very, like I said, I saw what the artist previously sold, the NFTs that he sold prior to the launch where they were averaging like about 30 Ethereum each. You know, like this is the artist again creating, you know, I think at one point it was like 2 versions of NFTs in order to whitelist like potential buyers. Does that make sense? Like if I lose you at any point, let me know. Yeah, no, I'm with you. Do you want me to explain that or no?

I'm with you.

Okay, awesome, awesome, great. Yeah, we won't care about the listeners. Let them kind of like, yeah, I'm just kidding. So yeah, so like again, so that showed me, wait a second, like there's people willing to pay, you know, Ethereum for this, like even before the launch of the project, it's like, all right. And then it happened again. Like there was another one and I even put a bid on one. Like I went as high to like almost 10 Ethereum for buying one of those, you know? And I stayed up till like almost 1 o'clock in the morning, you know? And I was, I could have bid more, but I'll explain, you know, my feel on that, you know, on the whole bidding. But it was just like, yeah, I can't wake up tomorrow morning and my wife asks me, hey, you know, what were you up to last night? I was like, hey, I bought this NFT, you know, for $50,000 or $40,000. It's just like, Wait, what? Like, what are you doing? It's like, you're okay. Like, you know, we're gonna have to put you, uh, to, how can I say, some type of program. But no, with the bidding, here's how I trade.

So you trade by yourself though? You trade, you said you're the investor, you're the one trading.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you constantly ask yourself the question, like, how am I gonna explain this to my wife or my friends and family who are investing with me?

Of course. Because here's the thing. No, no, no. I tell you, my wife, and I'll say this out loud, my wife is the boss. You know, it's not because it's independent, you know, Independence Woman Month for a week. Like, you know, she runs the show. I'm just kind of like the manager, you know? So here's the, like, so the Richard you're hearing now, right? And it's like, all right, who keeps Richard on point, on check? And it's like, it's the people around me, my kids, my wife. You know, they kind of keep me balanced, you know, in other ways and other things. So like her input, again, like I value a lot, you know, because the way I am is like I won't throw myself from a bridge, right? And just kind of be like, hey, let's see how this goes. But I am a risk taker, you know? So that's obviously very important. You know, like I'll analyze things, you know, as much as possible, but like I gotta jump in, you know? So I'd see it like jumping into a pool, like I don't know how to swim, you know, maybe not that deep, but hey, guess what? I could float. Like, I know how to float, you know?

So, so back to invisible friends. So you, you like—

Exactly. So back to invisible friends. So my view when it comes to bidding, and this applies to, to anything, and again, everything. If you're bidding on a house, if you're bidding on a car, if you're bidding on watches, auction, whatever it is, once you find yourself in that bidding process, You can easily overpay for something. So that comes down to an example. Let's say you're, you're bidding, you know, on a car. Car's worth $50,000, you know, but being that again, you're bidding and that's like, oh, I wanna beat Tim. Tim said how much? $60,000? I'm saying $70,000. Tim says $80,000. I say $100,000. You know, like it's, it's kind of like that whole winning and, you know, a bit of ego and, you know, big, like, hey, I'm, I, I won this bid. So it's just like, whoa, you gotta know your limits. 'Cause again, car's only worth 50 and you just overpaid for it. You know, like I, I get it has a value, but you know, you don't wanna overpay for it. So that's why like I set my, kind of like my stop limit at, you know, almost 10 Ethereum. But then again, I saw the project, I saw when they launched, I saw that I wasn't able to mint and I was just like, yeah, I'm definitely gonna own one no matter the cost, you know, whatever it is. So I ended up paying like 12 Ethereum for one, you know, and I saw the sales, you know, there were some people who paid like 18 for one. And then I'm seeing like the most recent sales, you know, where one of the most highest one was sold for 200 Ethereum, you know. So my whole view on it, whoever sees it, right, they're like, wait, Richard, floor price on that though is currently like 7 Ethereum or 8. And it's just like, yeah. And I bought it for 12, which means I'm not selling anytime soon. You know, like what I'm doing is it's like me opening up again a business or taking a position in it. It's like it's there for the long ride. You know, I obviously want to get my investment back and then some, you know, but as the collector and having the art, yeah, like I have it, you know, like I own one. But, um, so what do you—

Specifically with Invisible Friends, because there's ways to get on whitelists for mints and they There's the GIF of like the person doing this incredible obstacle course and that looks easy compared to trying to get on one of these whitelists.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, I'm not a fan of the whitelist. Trying to get on one of these whitelists. Oh my God.

Yeah. So at what point, at what point are you like, do you try to get on the whitelist? Do you try to get that mint price? I do. Or do you hop right to secondary and you're just like, my floor, my ceiling is 10 ETH, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, no, so I'll tell you this. Here's how I'll kind of compare that. So let me give you an example. And again, don't, don't take these amounts at face value. So here's kind of like, you know, a strategy that I use, you know, and I learned this for real estate. I used to work in real estate. So say, for example, I'm buying a house, right? The house is currently priced at $500,000. You're like, Rich, what does this have to do? Like, try to go along with me with the price. So the house is selling for half a million, but the house has other bidders. You know, like other potential buyers, people are offering $510,000, $520,000, $530,000. So Richard comes in and says, hey, I'm going to pay you $550,000. Everyone is like, wait, what? Why are you paying $20,000 more? Because I just gave a new value to my house and I gave new value or like a floor price to the houses which are similar in that area. So now that new kind of like floor price has been set. So from an investment perspective, like even if, you know, like I get my house appraised, right? Or if I'm gonna collateralize it, you know, take a loan against it, it's based on that price of $550,000, not below that, you know, or above. Comparing that, you know, or using that kind of like mindset to NFTs is if there's NFTs of, again, that I see personally or feel there's value in them, I'll buy them on the secondary market. It's great, yes, to be able to mint them, you know, and get a quick, easy X, you know, on the secondary market in itself. But the process, you know, to like to get whitelisted, oh my God, like it's like you gotta jump through so many hoops, you know, and like, and it's just like, yeah, I don't got time, you know, like I tried, like I said, I tried, you know, to do it myself, but it's just like, I don't have time for it, you know, like I'm focused on investing in other things and like research and, you know, other things. It's just like, I don't mind buying it on the secondary market because again, I know it's worth that, you know, if not more. And if I'm wrong, then time will tell me, you know. But like I said, I took a position on it. What I will tell you a little bit even more about that Invisible Friend is once I paid for 12, and I am going to mention my wife again, shoutouts to her, is I told her, look, I bought it for 12. She's like, yeah, floor price is 7 now. I was just like, oops. Throughout, you know, as the day passed, you know, like the couple of days passed, like floor price went into 5 and I had a lot of urges of, you know, buying a couple more or even one more. But yeah, like you see it, floor price went up to like 7 or 8. So that's the thing. Like it's gonna continue to do that, you know? And a lot of NFT tokens, you see that, you know, like from a World of Women now, Doodles, you know, there were previously like at an all-time high, let's say 15 Ethereum. Like, it's like going into a store now, you know, and there's a 50% or 100% sale, you know. So it's like if true value was there, you're able to buy it now at a cheaper price.

So is that what you're looking to do? Are you— I mean, because we're getting some bargain deals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'll tell you kind of like my— yeah, no, I'll tell you my strategy with, with tokens, you know, that I purchased in general. So what I try to do with the token is kind of like capitalize on them as much as possible. And the sense of collateralizing them, you know, it's not selling. Like my, my goal is not to sell, you know, like anything. Like even the Bitcoin that I bought, like I didn't sell, you know, like any of them. Like, you know, I collateralize them. And again, a lot, you know, a good portion of them, like I just set them aside, you know, like in a wallet, you know. But yeah, no, I try to collateralize. So that means You know, again, let's use what, Uni, you know, the Uni tokens that you were airdropped, you know, like I would, you know, deposit those on Compound, borrowed against that, you know, take what I, what I borrow has gains or take that to reinvest, you know, in other tokens. So the way I see it, it's like you go into the casino, the casino gives you free coins, free tokens. It's like, all right, I'm playing with the house's money. You know, like I'm not losing this. And from like a tax point perspective, like once you collateralize and once you borrow, you don't pay taxes on what you borrowed, you know? So it's, it's not a loophole. Like it's an option. Like it's, it's there, you know? So you're never sold. So you're, you know, you're not paying taxes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Until you get liquidated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, of course. Yeah. No. So yeah, you obviously wanna be aware of like, you know, where you stand on the whole liquidation point. And then I'll tell you, like, when the price of the asset or value that you deposit as collateral decreases, that to me is a sign that I should buy more of it. And then I just buy more of it, use it as collateral, and just like I said, continue playing that same game. But the whole like staking, farming, you know, being an LP, those are all, you know, great options. But with the NFT, I'll tell you, like, I'm really looking forward to like collateralizing them, you know, and there's a couple of projects you know, that are, that are doing that. So that to me, like I said, is, it's, you know, it's, it's a great option, you know, 'cause you're, you're, you're leveraging your asset and like, that's again, like that's how you, you kind of like wanna win, you know, and play the game. But again, that's my strategy. Like, you know, everybody has different strategies. Yeah. Yeah.

I went to breakfast with my buddy who was introducing me into crypto in 2019 and 2020 and I paid for breakfast. And then he paid me, he paid me back for the breakfast in ETH to kind of help me onboard, right? To give me some more ETH to play with.

Nice, nice.

So homeboy paid $20 for his breakfast, which now he really paid like, you know, $400 for his breakfast.

I'll, I'll tell you this. So get, get ready for this one. So, there's a service, I don't think they exist anymore. I think Coinbase acquired them. They were called, kind of like, And I would say Shapeshift. I can't remember the name, but I'll tell you what they, what they, the service that they provided. They were basically like a debit card. So they were like similar to BitPay, what BitPay has today. Actually, BitPay was one that I used also where it's, you have a debit card, but it's linked to your crypto wallet, you know, like Bitcoin, you know, and Ethereum. And yeah, I would also take out, you know, friends, coworkers, family to lunch, and I would pay with that card. But again, with Bitcoin and Ethereum. So like looking at the Ethereum, and this is again going back 3 or 4 years ago. So like looking at what I paid for like a cup of coffee or lunch, like, yeah, that easily cost me like thousands of dollars today. But, you know, whoever sees that, here's again, I'm not one to see losses and it's like, what do you mean? Like I incurred losses, I have losses, but I don't reflect on losses. You know, that to me is like a shrug on my shoulder. Like I get hit and my groin, like I got knocked out, but it's like, all right, I gotta get back up and continue doing this, you know?

So, so the tweets, yeah, yeah. I, I saw on the Twitters here that buying NFTs is basically the same thing as what my friend did by paying for breakfast with Ethereum, is that you should have just held the— yeah, you should have just held the tokens.

Yeah, yeah. No, I, I've, I, I have seen that. There's a lot of people that feel that, like, even again, so here's the thing, like, you, you have true, true and pure, like, maximalism, you know, for anything, for Bitcoin, from Ethereum, you know, for any token, Cardano, for any project. Like, there's people who, again, go above and beyond to be very passionate and, like, very patriotic to that product or a token. Like, um, I am not like that, you know, like, I am very You know, that was kind of even going to like my whole kind of like debate with Oops on that podcast. So it's just like, look, I'm a very, or at least I try to be very open-minded person. Like I give an opportunity to anything and everything, you know, like a prodigal person, like what proves to me their value or their worth is their performance. You know, it's like what they continue to build, what they actually do, you know, and if they, you know, if they kind of meet, you know, whatever goals they have. So with the NFTs, yeah, a lot of people say, you know, it's just kind of like misspending your Ethereum, whatever ETH you have. What I will say is this, is that again, if you look at, you know, the history of art in the world, like again, art is kind of like an asset which is, you know, valued and has been valued, you know, throughout the thousands of years. But it's also something like very historical, you know? So like, Even each NFT that you see, like you see the CryptoPunks, the Bored Apes, like that's part of the crypto history now. You know, like yes, is it meshing, you know, with the traditional world, like in being in Sotheby's auction houses? That is also happening. But again, if you're able to, as an investor, like have ownership or own those assets, it's like, yeah, like they could be worth, you know, 10 times, 100 times, if not more, whatever you pay. Like I'll tell you, like, And again, here's something else, like with assets and markets, like it, it'll blow anyone, you know, it's just like, like brain explosion when you see a cartridge, right, of Duck Hunt. And again, this is a video game for Nintendo from like 40 years ago, which sells, you know, at an auction for like $200,000. You know, you understand? It's like, who would pay that? Right.

But not any Duck Hunt, right? Because I mean, I've got, I've got Nintendo cartridges right next to me.

I need to go.

No, no, no.

Listen, a sealed game of Duck Hunt, never opened before, has that value. But what does that really tell you? It tells you that in the world we live in, any product, any asset has its own market. And value is kind of given by the supply, the demand, the desire by the market players within itself.

Just buy things and don't open the package. Just let it sit there.

No, no, no, no. So that— no, again, this comes down to the whole buying 2 of everything. So like, if there's a game you really like or anything, and again, you're just— don't do it for all games. And I'm not saying like games in general, but it's just like, if you really like it and you see value of it, buy 2 of them. Play one, keep the other one sealed. Who knows what's gonna happen 10 or 20 years from now? You know, like, that's, that's what I'm telling you. That's the kind of world we live in. And again, you see it. This applies to like comic books, trading cards. It's like anything and everything, you know, like there's a market for it. So with the NFTs, I feel that, you know, if you like the artist, you know, if you like the artwork, yeah, like it's, again, it's an investment that you're making and it's a purchase that, you know, you're making also, you know? So it's something that you wanna own. Are you losing ETH? Yeah, like you're paying in ETH, But everything is, I'm losing and I'm gaining. So yes, you may be losing ETH, but you, you're gaining something else, you know, again, which may have more value. But, um, so, you know, the NFTs—

How do you not run out? How do you not run out of money if you're buying 2 of everything?

Yeah, yeah.

But, or like even NFTs, like with Invisible Friends or things you're excited about, like how do you know when to stop?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And how do you know not to get liquidated? How do you prevent that? From happening.

Yeah, yeah.

Save me.

So no, no, no, I'll tell you. So if there's— so I work— I could tell you, like, I worked in, um, in real estate, you know, and I worked for, you know, a couple of big, uh, real estate development firms in New York. So one thing that I learned about, um, kind of like how money works, right, you know, like in regards to like raising money, investors, you know, like from the owners, is that no one kind of like, you know, or the majority of like top, and how can I say, like development firms, and this most likely applies throughout the world and United States, is that no one invests with their own money, at least to like on certain deals in a certain point. So like, I'll give you an example. So someone's going to buy like a property, so they acquire the property, but they only, they would only put a percentage of their own money into that deal. Like they'll structure that deal with other investors and then they'll also incur debt. You know, they'll take a loan from, from a bank to acquire the land and then they will also acquire, you know, they will take an additional debt to build the building. But all the numbers have already been calculated based on total sales of like the condos of the building. So at the end of the day, you know, the owner will go into a deal only putting X amount. Right. But based on these total sales of this apartment, if it was, you know, $200 million, like I'm walking away with, you know, like 2 times or 3 times my money. And again, it wasn't even all my money that I put down. You know, it was investors and, you know, the bank. So it was kind of like debt money, you know. So those— I'll tell you, like typical, like, and you could go through it like, you know, all your real estate developers, You know, that's what they all do. That's the formula. That's the template. So then what I did was, again, I saw that and I was just like, oh, wait a second, I like this kind of recipe. I like this template. Let me apply it, you know, to friends and family, you know, who are interested, you know, where I'll give them just kind of like ownership equity, you know, in whatever deal, you know, I structure and whatever gains, you know, there are. So, yeah, like, and again, you know, this is based, you know, on agreements. You know, and, and most importantly, you know, like trust, you know, based on my performance, you know, and, and how, again, you know, whatever I research, I analyze kind of gives the returns that we're expecting. So, so that plays, like I said, yeah, yeah, that plays to my advantage.

You have investors coming in, you have investors coming in that you know that's providing capital. You also have capital from your previous investments that you are staking. Compound, whatever that is, where you're—

From what I've heard. So here's, here's the perfect— so I want to give you like a perfect explanation. So like my parents, right? They didn't have credit cards. My dad didn't believe in credit card, you know, or credit or anything like that. He was just like, my savings, you know, it's my money. I owe no one money. So I'm the opposite of that. And it's just like, what do you mean? So I'll give you an example. So you have a credit card, right, with a credit line of, say, $10,000. The credit card company or the bank will send you 3 blank checks and they'll say, hey, Tim, here's 3 blank checks. Use them as you please. You pay off another credit card. You can write yourself a check, but you won't have to pay this money for a year. So there are people who receive that card, you know, that letter with those checks and they'll tear it apart, you know, like in all pieces. And they'll say out loudly, Here's the bank trying to take advantage of me. But what Richard sees is, wait a second, I've got a credit line of $10,000 and I don't have to pay interest on this for a year. All right. How do I bet— not even best utilize the $10,000, but how do I utilize, let's say, $5,000 of that, you know, where I'm kind of like making money on that money? Does that make sense?

I'm sorry. I just—

No, no, that's fine.

No, I have to process this. I have to take it in.

Okay. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, of course. I'll rewind if you need me to.

No, no, no. What I just think the weight of what you just said needs to be felt because no, I mean, I came out of like, I remember getting my first credit card in high school and instantly maxing out that credit card. It was a $300 limit. I remember that. And from that moment until very, until recently, I was under credit card debt and I felt the weight of that burden. And so, yeah, my parents did too, right? So coming out of at least a generation of that and getting those, those checks I used to like move my, to, to, to get, move my balances so I didn't have to pay interest on it and basically try to float that. Right. But then thinking, okay, shoot, I, I get those checks now, but, but I'm scared. And all of this is volatile, right? This is

not financial advice. Yeah.

I want to be clear on those checks.

You know, for like whoever is again listening, I'm not saying take the checks, sign them, write yourself a check and go on a shopping spree. No, no, no. Again, what I've learned is you can work for money or you could also make money work for you. So what I've learned is, and again, like I haven't mastered this myself, but I do apply it and I do do it like every day is, yeah, I'll have money work for not just for me, But for whoever else is like involved with me. And I'll have money even automatically pay whatever debts I have. So I don't, again, I don't have to work to pay the debt. I don't have to work for the money. Like, I know how to take X amount of capital and just like, you know, best manage that capital to pay any debts. And again, just continue to make as much gains, you know, based on whatever percentage it is. But yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Like, Using that example, right? Like a lot of people will see that has a risk and it definitely is a risk because you're saying, wait, let's even use the lowest amount as possible. Let's say you borrow $1,000 by doing that. You know, let's use $1,000 as an example. But again, you have $1,000 available interest-free. Like that's huge. You know, it's 12 months, 52 weeks. So in whatever you invest in, if you get a 20%, 30%, 50% gain, you know, whatever gain there is, it's on top of money that you borrowed. And that's your gains. Like, you have no debt. You know, like, like, you know, like there's so many people who, again, can take advantage of this and it's there. Like, you know, it's not a loophole. Like, it's there. Obviously, the bank's interest is, look, I want you to get indebted. You know, I want you to spend this money and owe me more. But if you know again how to manage it, right, if you know how to even conservatively, like, look, you can take that $1,000 and put it in pool together, you know, like put it in a stablecoin. Like, you know, you're going to win and you're going to make gains on it.

Okay, let's— I need you to make me feel better about myself. And this is the thing, because, because I hear you saying this and I believe you. I believe you. I really do. Right, right, right.

Oh, no, trust me. So that's what I'm saying. Like, I do that. I'm like, I'm, I'm full transparency. I do that, you know? And there's nothing wrong with doing that, you know?

No, no, it's brilliant. It just takes a, it takes bandwidth, right? It's not passive. You have to like know what's out there and what's coming in and what's—

Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, you gotta have spreadsheets or whatever. Do you have, do you use spreadsheets? Totally. What are you tracking?

Oh yeah. No, no, no, no. I'll tell you, I use more Google Sheets. You know, because like, yeah, yeah, you know, I'm— here's the thing, I'm always analyzing everything. Like, because again, like, my background is marketing and accounting, so I'm always running, you know, like formulas. I'm always calculating things, you know, and it's always that. Like, I'm, I'm always calculating, um, how can I say, like percentages, time frames, you know, like percent per day, percent per week. Like, it's just like,

yep,

I gotta see the numbers. Like, the numbers to me Are kind of like, you know, like red light, green light, yellow light. You know, like when I see something, it's like, all right, this is a yellow light. Go, go, go. You know, like that's how I wait.

How is yellow light go? How is yellow light go? No, no, I'm sorry.

Green light.

Okay, okay, good. I'm like, dang, dude.

Some yellow lights are like go. Like yeah, you know, some yellow yellow lights are like I'm telling you, the Matic, the Axie Infinitys. Like just real quick, some people are like, all right, when's he gonna get to the point where he's gonna drop? You know, whatever. So like. I've been looking. It's called Universe and it's universe.xyz. It's the XYZ token. And, you know, they're pretty much like a service which allows you to create like your own NFT, you know, community-driven kind of like project, you know, and they haven't fully launched yet, but they have a token, you know. And if you look at the token itself, it's currently at— I had it up a couple minutes ago. I'll bring it up just real quick right now. But, you know, it's less than $0.10, you know, and even last week I was going to take a bigger position in it and it was at around $0.17 or $0.18. So again, like if I took or if I was planning to buy, you know, next— last week, like it's at a— it's at a cheaper price point now. You know, and they're again, they're, they're planning to fully launch, you know, more of, you know, or like their service, like, you know, they're, they're planning to actually release, you know, an all-time high on this, by the way, is like $0.45. So, yeah. So let's say currently right now it's $0.10. So, yeah, if and when it gets back to $0.40 or above, like that's a 4x, you know, and if not more. But what they also offer is, you know, a staking option, you know, with USDC. And XYZ has a sushi LP, you know, where their APR on that is 86.49%. So I'll give you an example. You take any debt that you can incur, right? Which paying out, let's say, 30 or 40%, you know, to friends and family or whoever, credit card company, you know, but who makes that difference? You know, if you're making 90, you're paying 30, you're making 60% on top of, you know, the 30 that you understand. Like, it's a numbers game. You know, so you just gotta like, yeah,

okay,

review those numbers, calculate those numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

How many questions? But the first one, I need you to go back and the reason— sure. So, but, but for me, I, Richard, I need to hear, I need to hear you talk about failure. Like, yeah, no, we haven't gotten there. But since Bitcoin, since your big brain Bitcoin move and your Ethereum move,

the

failure was that debit card

that I told you, you know, me buying the coffee and, you know, and billing

it to my No, that's not a failure. That is— no.

Oh, okay. Um,

yeah, no, I want to hear, I want to hear, I aped into this NFT project or this or that and I lost it all, or I got liquidated.

And you want to see failure?

I thought I knew, and I, I thought I was good. Um, look, I got a job at Denny's. That's what I want to hear. I want to hear that you got a job at Denny's.

No, no, that's the thing. Like, even my first job, which was like working at a supermarket, like packing bags, like I take it as a badge of honor, you know? Like, you know, like that's who made me like who I am. You know, like my, yeah, like my experience has been retail, you know, 6 years retail, like, you know, office work, you know? But, um, like that's the thing. Like it, look, like I'll give you an example. Like I was, there's the Fang Gang, that NFT project. Like I paid 1 Ethereum, which again, basing it on current price is like $2,500, $2,600. Like it's worth $200 now, you know, but that to me is not a loss. You know, like I like the NFT that I bought. Yes, it's not worth what I bought now, but like I have it, you know, like I like it. Like, you know, there was that point, you know, in time where I bought it. Yes, it cost me that amount. Yes. Was it an investment? Was it the best investment? Yeah. Like it is like it. Yeah. Like it's definitely, you know, you would consider it a loss, but— Okay. Have I had rug pulls? Yeah. You know, there's, there's been a couple of projects, you know, that I've, I've been rug pulled on, but, um, that, that, that's the way I see it. It's just

like, all right.

Yeah. That's the thing. I, I couldn't.

All right. No, no.

Hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good for you.

And I'll tell you, look, just even like, even for full transparency also. So like I do, I know I have multiple wallets and I, and I'll teach you guys like a really cool trick also. Oh, here's a little alpha also as well. And you guys are going to probably like this one and you're going to be like, wait, what? So I have like the rliviano.ENS and that's kind of like my public wallet. So whenever you see like, you know, I swap for a token or I bought a token, you could kind of get an idea of like, all right, he got into this position, you know? But like my major holding wallets, like I choose not to— how can I say— share those. You know, just because again, like they're, you know, a good portion of them are structured as partners. So that, that to me is like, you know, sharing like bank account details, you know, like with the public. So obviously, you know, the kind of like the parties involved, you know, like they may not want to kind of like, you know, share that information. So I can't willingly just kind of like, you know, put stuff out there. But I mean, Etherscan is very public. So, you know, you can follow wallet addresses and kind of tie things you know, one and one together. Hold on. It was something else that I wanted to say, but we'll come back to it.

You were telling us about your wallet tricks, like your—

Yeah. Oh, so yeah. Thank you, Tim. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That shows you're paying attention. So check this out. This is very interesting. So everyone is very familiar with how to create a wallet, right? You got this crypto wallet apps. You know, you could just very easily go to new account. It'll give you each wallet has that seed phrase and that private key. So look how like how open and transparent and how crazy crypto is, like even creating crypto wallets. So say for example, you find yourself in a situation, right, where you want to provide someone with a wallet account and you don't have like even like any like smartphone, so you can't download an app to create a wallet. You know, and like you don't have MetaMask and you're like, why do you even need this? You know, let's just say for an example, you're doing an event, you want to use a one-time wallet, you know, for whatever reason, because again, you don't want to share, you know, your whole history. And it's not, you know, anything illegal. It's just, you know, to me, the wallet is like an email or phone number, you know, where you, you don't mind giving it to, you know, to some people, then you don't want to give it to everybody. Because then like everybody's going to send you, you know, either the scam tokens or, you know, these scam NFT tokens or whatever. But check this out. You got your computer up, right, Tim? You're there?

Yes. Yes. All

right. All right. Awesome. Awesome. So do this. Go to Etherscan and open up any transaction. Like any— you go to etherscan.com, you're going to see blocks on the left, transactions on the right. So you could open up any transaction, right?

Okay. Got it.

All right. If you see the transaction hash, right, and it starts 0x letters and number, that itself is a private key to a wallet.

Okay,

exactly. So you just created a new wallet from a private key.

But what? Okay, so you're saying just pop that transaction hash,

open up any transaction, right?

Yeah, I got it. I got a transaction hash. You're telling me— And you see the transaction hash.

If you copy that, right, and you go to MetaMask and you go to import.

Yep.

That in itself is a private key. So you're doing that again. If for whatever reason you're like, yeah, why? If you don't have a way of creating a wallet, this is a way of creating a wallet just by using that private key. But no one knows that that transaction hash is a private key. So who, like, who would use this? Again, no one who has a smartphone, someone who like wants to create a new wallet. Like, that's a very easy way to create, again, a one-time wallet. The problem is you're seeing that. But wait, wait, but you're seeing that, right? And a lot of people, it's like, yeah, that's useless. Well, it depends. You probably didn't even know about it, but now value based on usage and how you use it or how anyone uses it. That's how value is created.

This is like some 4D chess stuff and I'm not so— but so could you give me an example of how you would use this?

I'll say it again. Say, for example, I am anywhere, right? And any event, like I found myself, phone battery die. I, you know, I don't have access to the App Store, to MetaMask, to my Trust Wallet. And I just meet a random person. Hey, Richard, I really like your— I heard your podcast. Hey man, can I send you some ETH? And again, I don't have a wallet. Oh look, there's an Apple Store. Come, come with me. All right, so now I got this private key, right? Which I could create, which I created. I'm not downloading any extensions, any apps. And again, it's so random that none of these wallets that you open or create has anything in them. So now I have an address for somebody to send to.

Got it. Okay. So who can create— can somebody create a bot to like go check every possible transaction?

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

And yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so you're just giving me—

Donate some to me. But like I tell you, in the years of crypto, and this is how I want you to see like contact information. So there's all— this is all a puzzle and these are all pieces, but there's pieces like you say it to yourself or anyone here. How many times have you not opened a transaction, like transaction, and seen the hash and just say, hey, wait a second, is that a private key? Like, listen, 90% of the people have never done that. I myself, when I first came across it, it was just like, are you serious? And it's just like, holy snap. Like, and then I said the same thing, like, I never knew this. And like, what good is this for? And I'm like, oh, I'm sure, you know, like something could be done with that.

You could use it for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But does, right, a private key can be any series of letters and numbers, right?

Or—

Correct.

Correct. Yeah. To a certain amount of characters.

Yeah. Got it. Okay.

But obviously as the transaction grow longer and longer and, you know, some, you know, has when they first initially started, they were short, they were shorter, you know, there was not sufficient characters for it to be a private key. Got it. But like I said, you just kind of like being, again,

like,

no, somebody—

I know what you're saying. Yeah. That's why.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You're showing me the secrets of the blockchain.

You're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because that could now it's like it's like you're you're like Bear Grylls or you're like MacGyver and you are taking a paper clip and some a wad of gum exactly and and and blowing up a bank vault got it right on there so so back to

like that

back to the the the thing that you told us about Universe XYZ why are you excited about that and you told me yeah you said buy the token. Now, some people have these like, what do they call the polymorphs, the lobby lobsters? There's NFT drops. But you specifically spoke about the token.

Why did you—

why are you excited about this?

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited about that because I've seen, I've seen again and I've studied and again, it's all very open, you know, and transparent and public of who they are, you know, and where they're currently, you know, where they're currently at. So in regards to marketplaces, NFT marketplaces, there's You know, there's OpenSea, there's Rarible, there's Zora, you know, there's now LooksRare. There's, again, they have their marketplaces and some of them have tokens. Like OpenSea doesn't have a token. You know, they're planning to launch traditionally, like, you know, through the stock market, an IPO. So when you look at, again, the competitors, right? So this is like a lot of what my analysis consists of. Let me see competitors, right? Let me see players. And let me see prices. So what I always say is I see things like me going to the supermarket and seeing bottles of water, like how many different manufacturers of bottled water exist? Like too many, you know? And like, what differentiates them? Like price, you know, size, where the water is from. But what I'm really interested in is price, obviously, right? Like what's the lowest kind of like price that they're at and that I could buy at? And again, they're competing. So what I want to see obviously is, yeah, the one that I'm buying at a lower price, like I'm able to get more gains on it, you know, like me buying something $1, $3, $15. It's a huge difference when I'm buying it for $0.10, you know, like a 5x at $0.10 is $0.50, a 5x at $10, it's like $50. So again, like applying, you know, the law of probability to it, like there's a higher chance for something to go from $0.10 to $0.50 And a shorter time, you know, time frame than it going from $10 to $50.

Okay, so what are those cheap bottles of water that you're looking at? Yeah,

so

I like this.

Yeah, universe.xyz. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm saying. XYZ is definitely one of them. And, you know, their universe.xyz, you know, is definitely one of them. From going back to Axie Infinity, and it's not shilling them, you know, like I don't show any project. Like, again, I do like them, but I'm just like putting it, you know, on people's radar. You know, they have obviously the AXS token. It's currently now within the $0.40s and $0.50s. You know, is it overpriced? You know, depends how you look at it. But again, I'm not looking to, you know, invest in any token that it's in that price range. Like, I like investing in things, you know, below $1 and like even below $3. You know, like, I like buying cheap. You know, what are those?

What are those? What are your cheap picks?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's SLP. I like SLP from Axie Infinity and I like RON, R-O-N. And I like, again, the farming option, like LPing SLP with Ethereum to earn RON on, on Axie Infinity, which they're currently giving like a 92% APR. So yeah, like those again, I want to throw out those 2. You know, I'm, I'm sure we could discuss more, but I also see the time. I think we're gonna cap this, you know, for 15 more minutes or something like that.

And we're on your schedule, brother. We're on your schedule.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, just so I guess I just like to make sure.

You tell me when you need to go to your next meeting. Uh, but what's—

yeah, no, yeah, just so—

okay.

Yeah. So yeah, so those 2, like I said, I would, I would highly recommend people, you know, to look into them, you know, obviously, yeah, do their own research. And again, like, has done their research.

Those are Axie tokens, right? Those are actually—

yeah, yeah. So it's, it's, so it's the SLP token and RON on the Axie Infinity network, you know. So yes, so those are those 2, and then it's, and then it's the XYZ from universe.xyz.

Okay, but those are your big plays.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are the ones, like I said, like study them, you know, take a look at them, see, like I said, you know, like in regards to how much they give a yield. And yeah, just take any amount. You know, what's great about Axie Infinity and the network in itself is like looking at Ethereum or Bitcoin, you know, like it's a new kind of like mall in development. Like it hasn't opened new stores or shops yet, you know, like they're still building, you know, so there's still a lot of value that could be captured, you know, like if you get on that train. So yeah, I would definitely recommend looking into those too. So yeah, another thing also, you know, that I like to mention is like how I reach out to developers. you know, and, you know, our teams is I welcome, you know, like anybody, you know, and as you yourself, Tim, has seen it, you know, like I like, again, like here's the way I see it. Like I feel like we're each cut from like this, you know, different cloth, you know, and we're all, you know, different in so many ways, but we also have a lot of similarities. So like, obviously, you know, if you like, if you find like-minded individuals, like it's always great, you know, to collaborate. So like my DMs are always open and I will never block them. You know, I don't care, you know, like how many kind of like spam, you know, messages I get. Like, I, I think at this point I know how to distinguish, you know, what's, what's a scam, you know, or not. And I'll tell you, this is also Richard. Like, I love, um, kind of being put in the situation. I'm like, wait, am I getting scammed? And you're like, wait, explain that. So I'll give you an example. So like, I'm a New Yorker, you know, and I'll have people come up to me and you're like, you know, just, you know, homeless, you know, whatever they are like, Rich. Or rich. Yeah. They'll be like, hey, you know, can you give me $10, $20? I'm hungry. And I'm like, yeah, come, I'll come buy the food with you. It's like, no, no, you know, it's all right. You know, just give me the money. And it's just like, wait, so you want the food? You know, you want the money for the food or you want it for something else? You know, like, I like kind of like being put in the situation like, all right, are you playing me? All right, let me see how you're playing me. You know, like, let me, let me kind of get this, you know, this, um, This pitch that you're giving, you know, or what's this template that you're following? Because again, that's how I kind of educate myself on what's going on, you know, or how people are getting scammed, you know, and stuff like that. But yeah, no, my DMs are always open, you know, to like discuss things further with, with anyone, you know, like any projects, any tokens, any ideas. And yeah, like that whole Wagme spirit, like again, like a lot of people kind of like say it, But I really want to be like, you know, proof of it, you know, and I am already, you know, like that's what I'm saying. Like I'm already doing it, you know, with friends and family, but like, can I do it more like online, you know, with like random— like I'll tell you some of the projects that I'm looking forward to. Floral Combo is having— has it. And there's another one called Hedge. I'll share it in the group where it's basically if you're listening to this podcast, right? And you're like, wait, that guy's Sounds like he knows what he's talking about, or at least, you know, he's coming across that way. It's just like, is there a Richard fund? Is there something that I can invest in? And it's just like, yeah, due to crypto and how it works, like, we could create that, you know, where you deposit, you know, X amount of ETH, you know, I'll be able to manage it. Like, I can't, you know, withdraw anything and I'll get like a performance fee, you know. And, and any, obviously anybody who invests in it, you know, or buys it, you know, there's services like Enzyme that do that. You know, and so that's what I'm saying. Like, if I'm so good at what I do, it's like, let me prove it. Now, you said, Richard, me? Yeah, yeah,

yeah. You said Hedge, Enzyme.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then there was something else that you said before Hedge.

Yeah. So Enzyme is one of them and it's— yeah, yeah. So it's like enzyme, enzyme.finance and you can look it up and, and check that out. So basically the way the work is like you're able to create a, you know, like a crypto fund. You know, this is all kind of like on-chain, you know, and through smart contracts. So it's not much of like sending, you know, any type of amount to my wallet. Like it'll be kind of like hosted, you know, through Enzyme. So again, this is one option. So basically once the fund is created, you know, and like assets are purchased, anyone is able to buy like shares of that fund. And it's all based on performance, you know, like whoever's managing that crypto wallet or that fund, you know, if it has gains, yeah, like it'll get, you know, it'll go based on, you know, from the expect— I'm sorry, from the investor's perspective, they're buying shares on it. So if, if that fund continues, you know, to go up in value, you know, it performs very well. Like obviously that share, the share of that fund continues to also increase in value. And then me or the person who's managing the fund, obviously, you know, will receive a percentage fee out of that. But that to me, like, it's like I said, it's great because what that allows you to see is, you know, to find not Richard but other Richards who, based again on the track record, you could see like, wait, you know, they're doing, you know, X percent, you know, per month or in this timeframe. And it's like, yeah, the chances of me doing that on my own are like very low, you know? So that's, you know, like, again, like what I do, right? There's people who do it even more religiously. You know, in the sense like, you know, they're running MEV bots, you know, they're doing a lot of like arbitrage strategies. But what I say is like, look, I'm a strong believer. If I get pies of pizza, I don't want to eat all the pies. I just want slices of the pies. Everyone else who helped contributed to buy the pie, here you have your piece. My goal, my mission is to get as many pies as possible, but it's not to make Richard fat, you know? It's like for us to share it, you know, like amongst each other, everyone who kind of part, you know, partook on it, you know, or partake on it. So, you know, I'll, I'll share those there, but yeah, that, and so yeah, like that's something like, yeah, yeah.

Back to the, like, so you were talking about tokens and you, you were, you're really excited about the Axie product. Um, as far as NFTs go, you're, you're going in for like, are you going in for utility? Are you going in for projects that you like? Are you going for blue chips? Is that what you're excited about?

No. So it's, it's, you know, so it comes down to how can I tell you being that. So here's what's interesting, like about the NFTs. So the tokens in themselves, quantity and supply-wise, they're in the millions, right? You know, there's like millions, you know, or even a billion of, of, of said token. But now with the NFTs, you know, there's only like 10,000 or 5,000 of them, but there's billions of people in the world. Right? So like if X percent of those people, which equals millions, ends up wanting to buy these NFTs, then now these NFTs, you know, have, how can I say, even more value, right? And it even has more desire, you know, for people willing to purchase that. And here's the interesting thing about art. Like art is very like salacious, you know, in the sense like you, it's like you wanna own it, you know, like you fall in love with it, you know? And it can be based on like on the characters, you know, the artist, But it's just like it calls you, you know? So, like my— like I tell you, my take with the NFTs, especially the blue chip, is similar to how, as I said, yes, I can buy one, you know, for whatever, 10 Ethereum or 12, you know, as I spent. But if I can minimize my investment of it based on percentage and, you know, find other like-minded investors, And, you know, if there's gains in it there and we all win, like, I'd rather do it that way, you know? For sure. Like, again, like, it, it's great buying 1 Ethereum, selling it for 10, but it's like you kind of like winning a prize, right? And you're, you're only able to kind of like share by yourself.

Yeah.

You know, so you got this whole kind of club and restaurant. It's like, oh, you got a free meal, but guess what? You can't invite anybody. You know, like you gotta eat all of the food by yourself. And it's like, yeah, this is no fun. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Richard, what would you tell a whale and you're trying to convince them to deposit into a pool together? Like, how do you make the case for people that are looking for that 1,000x, you know, that, that, you know, that, that holy grail? How do you make the case for pool together?

No, totally. I mean, so here's what we got to see. So we see, well, where whales are currently investing. You know, they're doing your Curve, they're doing the Yearn, you know, they're doing the Compound. You know, it's amazing when you go to Compound and, you know, you put in cUSDC and, you know, you see these wallets like depositing like half a million dollars, half a billion dollars, you know, like $200 or $300 million. So what I say is, let's compete with them. You know, let's try to offer what Curve and Yearn does. Like, I'll tell you this, like, to me, Pool can actually compete with Compound and Aave. Like, it in itself could be its own Compound or Aave. you know, where people are able to deposit something, you know, has collateral, you know, like it's built such a strong community and it's kind of, it's shown, you know, how responsible and, you know, how they value security that majority of these platforms that, you know, that exist, they could kind of be built on top of PullTogether. You know, like I'll tell you like a, a perfect kind of like dream and vision that I've, I've had is I'd like to see more of like a community bank of PullTogether. Like, say for example, whatever NFT I have, you know, or any token, like on the other side, I wanna find a Pull Together member that says, hey, what do you want for that? $1,000? And you're using that as collateral and you're willing to pay X% APY? Like, no one's paying that. And it says, yeah, I'm, I'm willing to pay 'cause I wanna work with $1,000. I got a better strategy how to use that $1,000. Like, you as a lender, are you willing to come to terms? On this, you know, like again, openly, transparently, you know, amounts, interest rate, you know, kind of like the whole terms of the deal. Like I would love to see that, you know. Is that gonna happen? It's possible, you know. Like that's what I'm saying. Like I'm advocating for it, you know. I've said it again and again and again. And you know, like pull together even core team may feel like, yeah, Richard, that's that's not our you know that's not our role. That's not our mission. But then what I say to community members, especially those who are developers, is, can we create this? You know, because here's where I— Go for it. Yeah, all this to me is just like land. Like Ethereum is land. PoolTogether is land in the sense of, all right, what do we do with it? Like we've built, we've built a community, we have this, but what more can we do? You know, and it's like if we did something 3 years ago, Like, it's 2022. What are we doing this year? You know, like, are we doing NFTs? Like, all right, let's do NFTs. You know, like, are we doing lending and borrowing? No, let's do lending and borrowing. And I get it. Like, core team could only do so much, but that's why, like, has community members. And again, those 2 more who, you know, who are developers who have the same dream and vision, it's like, all right, let's build on this. You know, let's do a lot more on it.

So, but so—

The whales will follow. Once whales see that, You know, and they're like, oh, you know, like, 'cause that's the thing with whales, they'll go, you know, where the fishes are, right? So if they see, you know, a product who has, you know, a certain TVL and they see value in it, you know, in regards from yields and again, like passively and, you know, not very kind of like aggressive, like you see Curve. Again, like there's so many examples of like successful like protocols that in my mind there's nothing wrong with copying something that exists and making it better. You know, like applying your flavor or your color to it.

So Richard, listen, you are obviously good at what you do and you're— it sounds like, it sounds like you're thriving. It sounds like you're really enjoying what you're doing.

I'm humbled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a couple of shekels. Like I said, it, it keeps me enough to, um, to pay the bills and to do calls like this and not having to worry about Oh wait, what time do I have to clock in? Oh man, I missed my lunch break. It's like, oh, shit. So yeah.

But let me, but let me rock your boat. I want to rock your boat a minute. Go for it. I, right. You've, you've got this superpower of input. You can look across the landscape, see investment opportunities. You can manage multiple sources of income and, and, and, you know, debt and collateralization and all of this, right? You've got those skills, obviously. But you also are a visionary and you have these ideas. And part of me thinks that you are a builder, but, and you're building things. You've already obviously built this investment business by yourself. Like this is what you're doing, especially moving from tech and real estate. But what if, what if your next, what if that 1,000x is you building something?

Oh, I, I, yes, that's again, Within the Richard, there is like a founder, you know, who wants to kind of like launch and bloom out of that, you know? But what I could tell you is knowing Richard, because I am Richard, I couldn't do it without a team, you know? For sure. And I don't need cheerleaders, right? No, I don't need that. I'll be like, oh, Richard, go. No, no, no, no, no. I need people to kind of like, you know, play their roles, play the positions, and let's build something together. But, um, yeah, no, in regards to like ideas and vision, like, I mean, like, listen, here's a perfect example. Like, look at Vitalik's, you know, history. Like, you know, he started writing for Bitcoin. You know, he wanted at one point to work for Ripple, but like, look where, who Vitalik is today. You know, like he's one of the founders and the creator of like Ethereum. So that's what I'm saying. Like within all of us, like Richard today is like on this stage and pulled together. Like, where am I gonna be tomorrow? Like, I don't know, but I hope, you know, as I've been communicating and speaking, people see again, even the value in me, you know? And what I'm saying is just like, all right, whatever he's going, I wanna follow, you know, or I wanna be a part of that. And what I say is like, I welcome that. You know, like I also, you know, like I said, I wanna be on, you know, on a winning team for winning protocols. But yeah, no, Tim, thank you. Like I said, and yeah, I hope people enjoy this.

So what would you build?

Last question. What would you build? You know, I hope it wasn't like a brain fart, like, oh man, I just wasted an hour of my life.

But what would you build? Last question. What would you build, Richard? If Richard's a builder, what would you build?

Yeah, you know, so what I will build, I'll just tell you real quick. So one of them is that, you know, lending and borrowing market, which is just a kind of quick pitch. It's similar to like Uniswap. You could swap one token, you know, to another. But it's more like peer-to-peer lending. So on one side you have Tim who has X of this token, which Compound doesn't support it, Aave doesn't support it. Like you can't use it anywhere as collateral. But I know Tim, I know the value of that token. Tim needs $1,000. So what I'll do is we'll set the amount, we'll set the percentile, and then we'll just break down like the payments, you know, principal and interest, you know, 12 months, 24 months, whatever it is. And then, you know, we could kind of do this deal, but then the deal itself can just kind of be like rebought and purchased by like any other lender. So like I could exit that loan, you know, how can I say, like myself, like if I lend you the $1,000, like, oh wait, now I need the $1,000. Like I could put it out, you know, into like a marketplace and anyone else can pick it up. So like I'm telling you, like it's very ambitious. Yeah. You know, in the sense of how it works, but due to like smart contracts, you know, and programming, and taking out, you know, the trust out of humans, like it's definitely possible, you know? So that's one. The other one is I wanna see like universal basic income debit cards in the sense of like, you see how like NFTs, you know, are being sold, bought. So I'd like to see a pull-together NFT where all the ETH collected actually is earning yield and then it goes to kind of like that, the NFT holders of that NFT. And I hope that makes sense. You know, I hope that doesn't, but basically that will also be linked, you know, with a debit card, you know, which again, you could use to pay for things, you know, for whatever you like. But it's an NFT, you know, with utility in the sense that it's always earning interest, you know, and that interest is split between all the holders. Or it can go to a DAO, you know, it could go to a vault or a treasury, like, you know, a percent could go to a treasury. So that's what I'm saying. Like, the way I feel is just like, Again, since I like music, right? And if you take music, you know, you can remix music, you can do like samples, you know, vocals, you know, certain like drum beats, all this and that. You can do that with crypto and protocols also. Like you can have, you know, a little slice of NFTs, pull together Aave and poof, mash that all together. But it sounds a lot easier when I explain it, but it, you know, it's difficult to develop.

That's right. Okay. Well, Richard, thank you so much for your time. That's, you know, you set the record for length and, you know, alpha in a podcast, I would say. So thank you so much for being with us.

Yeah. Yeah. There was a couple, like I said, I hope, you know, I, I didn't, how can I say, not, yeah, like limited the expectation. Whoever was like, oh man, I was waiting for like a meme token, you know, for him to like pump something. You know, like, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry I didn't give you that, you know, but like I said, listen to this, relisten to it if you have to. And I'm sure in between all of it, there was probably, and I hope, you know, something that you learned and something you're like, oh wow. You know, like, yeah, I never thought of it that way. And like, yeah, that's, that's the takeaway, you know?

That's right. And then also check out the Random channel in the Pull Together Discord.

Oh yeah, that's, that's the Richard channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right. And Richard's Twitter. So those are the two, those are the two channels. Follow Richard's wallet on Zapper. We'll have all the notes. But yeah, so Richard, thanks so much. This has been the Pool Together.

Thank you, everyone. Awesome, awesome. I appreciate it, guys. Enjoy the rest of your day. Enjoy your week. Take care. All right, man. Take care. Bye-bye.

Thanks for listening to the Pool Together Community Podcast. You can visit pooltogether.com to deposit, and we'd love to hear what you thought about today's episode. So visit the Pull Together Discord and let us know.