PoolTogether Community Podcast #2 Kris Kay

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Also, Okay. Um, welcome to the PoolTogether Community Podcast number 2. Uh, today we have a special guest, Chris K, uh, who is, um, gonna be sharing some amazing insights with us. Uh, we are, so today is the, it's the start of 2022. So we, I mean, 2021 has of course been a fantastic, uh, year for crypto and PoolTogether. But we want to touch on many different things, you know, DeFi, um, NFTs, um, many other different aspects of crypto. So just before we start, nothing that we say here is financial advice or investment advice. It's for information and education purposes only. So of course, do your own research. And, uh, um, yeah, crypto and other assets of course are very risky and unregulated. and so on. So with that being said, let's, uh, let's make a start. So Chris, uh, how are you doing today?

Doing great, man. Doing awesome. How are you?

Yeah, I'm doing great, uh, great as well. So, uh, first of all, um, as we, as we're here in 2022, uh, just a quick look back on 2021. What, what would you say are your highlights, your personal highlights in terms of crypto and, and so on? I know, I know a lot— you've done a lot, a lot's happened to you, but what would you say stands out for you above everything else?

Wow, that's a tough question, man. Um, I can't— so much happened in one year. Um, I've literally been in this space like every single day. Uh, it feels like one year in crypto is like 10 years in real life or traditional finance, traditional everything, really. Um, as far as highlights, um, it's hard to pin down, but I would say, um, like non-material things, like not talking about like crypto winnings or anything like that. Probably just getting involved with so many different DAOs and, um, probably the release of my course, just because I think in the beginning of this year, like, or the middle, I said I wanted to onboard 100,000 people into DeFi within the next, like, I don't know what I said, 5 to 10 years or something. Um, but my core, I'm already 16% there, and that's just from my course students that have enrolled, right? There's 16,000— no, 16,000 or 17,000 enrollments. And, you know, that's not counting people that watch my YouTube videos or go to letsdodefi.com and just like go through those free tutorials and just, you know, dive in. So maybe I'm 20% to 25% to 30% there. And that's just crazy to think about because in the beginning of the year I started with 2 Twitter followers. I didn't even have my YouTube account, um, you know, nothing. But I did have like a crazy passion for DeFi. Like, it— I was completely blown away by everything. So, um, I'm glad it worked out the way I, the way I envisioned. And, uh, my highlight is just, you know, being able to help so many people kind of learn this stuff. And as I'm learning too, like, I'm basically just Documenting my experience and helping other people.

Okay, that's great. So what do you think has made you so successful and in such a short space of time? Because it's quite a— really, it's an amazing goal, but it's of course very challenging. What do you think has led to you reaching such a fantastic achievement just So far,

right? Yeah, that's a good question. I think the most important thing is I realized that what was missing in the space, and it's so early, but I basically, I'm like the buffer between the smart people and the everyday person. Like, this space is full of really smart developers, builders, founders, everything. And it's like dominated by that. And, you know, my, my thing is like I'm the middleman between them and people that want to learn because, you know, when they put out like a thread, when a founder or, you know, a dev or some influencer puts out a thread on, on something, it's usually pretty very technical. And even documentation of like dApps, very technical. So I basically dumb everything down. And I think that's what kind of, you know, you cast a really wide net and a lot of people can get caught in it. So that's basically, I think, what kind of, you know, helped me grow the way I did.

Yeah, no, no, that's— I think that's— yeah, sort of makes it big.

Other factors as well, right? But like connecting with so many DAOs pooled together, just building genuine relationships. And everything happened just like so organically and just so fast. I don't know, I'm not really sure how it happened, but I just know I'm here and I'm, you know, glad, glad it did.

Okay, okay, let's just, uh, once we're here, let's just talk about your course because I was actually— I bought the course, uh, and I, and I know several people listening live also have the course,

and,

uh, I was actually going through it, um, again today. And, um, I think for me, I think it's, it really is a fantastic— if you're, you know, newbie or intermediate, you know, it sort of gives you a— just takes you— it gives you kind of good foundation. And you also introduce some tools where, uh, even I, you know, I, I feel I know some, some good stuff, but like there were things that I didn't know. So that, that was sort of, uh, uh, really sort of useful. But I think, can you just— I think one of the things which is really important, which I'd just like you to touch on here, is the— you talk about 2 main or possibly 3 core assets to hold. And I think many people don't understand why that's important. So could you just talk a little bit about that? Like, what are those assets and why is it so important to hold them when, you know, there's many shiny things and many exciting things launched all the time? So why should you, you know, take those assets?

So my thing is, and I'm, I'm, I think you're talking about like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and probably an index or 2 like DPI.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah, um, I'm not saying that should be your entire portfolio and you should just forget everything. I'm saying at least 51% of your portfolio should be in those, and you should just for like forget that you even own them and keep averaging in. Not financial advice, of course, but at the same time, like, I mean, it's— Uh, by the way, I think News, you have your mic unmuted. Um, just heads up. I hear— okay, there

we go. Yeah, I muted him.

Uh, yeah, it's just a good idea because, I mean, you know, Bitcoin's not going away, right? We always like to— I know the Ethereum community likes to, um, say that it's, you know, it's, it's like a pet rock because you can't do anything, but, you know, it's, it's, um, it's just not going away. Um, and then we have Ethereum, which I think everybody probably knows my views on that, but But those 2, I think, are definitely here to stay. And history has shown that the most profitable thing to do with them is just to hold. And then we have everything else. But yeah, I think if you don't have a good chunk of your portfolio in those 2, and then you don't treat them like a long-term investment, you're just losing out on long-term money. Um, so that, that's, that's my thesis. I can get really in-depth on like Ethereum and why it's, um, you know, why I think it's a great idea to hold it, but I don't want to take up too much time or get too technical. Um, but yeah, basically, I mean, yeah, it's, um, everybody's too busy trying to find like the next Ethereum that they miss Ethereum. Like, it's up, I don't know how much in the last year year, but it's a crazy amount that you, you know, most people see that it's like it doesn't move, or yeah, but this meme coin went up 10,000x in like 4 days. Um, yeah, sure it did, but it also went down like 8,000x in the next, in the next 3, right? So if you think you can chase pumps, um, sorry to break it to you, but you can't time it, and you'll just, you know, you'll end up trading all your profits away in a sense.

Yeah, no, that's good. Just on that point, I mean, um, a year ago MATIC was at 1 cent, and now I'm not sure the exact price is, something like $2.50,

something.

It's been near all-time high recently. Um, are there sort of any other sort of projects like that, either connected with Ethereum or sort of related or different which you think have that potential? Because what I was trying to say is that even a year ago, at 1 cent, forgetting about the price, it would have made sense. It's very logical to, you know, to believe that it would go up, you know, a lot because of the value of, of what, what it was offering. Are there any other, you know, either, you know, Ethereum-related projects or other projects which have that kind of potential that you, you see?

Yeah, well, here's the thing, like Matic, looking back, like in hindsight, sure, it looks like a, you know, like a sure thing. But, you know, at the time, I remember I bought it. I was— I started looking at it in like maybe February or March of this year when it was 5 cents, right? And, um, I was looking into it. I started hearing a lot about it like on Twitter threads and replies and scaling top discussions. And I was like, I'll just wait it out. Like, it's at 5 cents, look at the market cap. And I watched it go to 20 cents, and that's when— or 19 cents— that's when I ended up buying in. But everything looks, you know, in hindsight looks like, oh man, that was obvious. I think right now it's, um, right now it's like a weird time, and the market is very, very irrational. Like if you look at SushiSwap, it's I think number 95 ranked in market cap, and like the amount of you know crap useless coins that come before SushiSwap, you know are bigger than SushiSwap is just insane. Like in the top ten we have like or top ten or top fifteen we have Doge, Ripple, Cardano, you know the countless number of like literally useless. Coins and projects. So, um, what I say is, you know, I'm betting on the fundamentally sound assets which have been around but everybody now sees as boring because they haven't done a 1,000x, right? Um, and you can call it DeFi 1.0, OG DeFi, whatever you want to call it. But right now the market's irrational, so I'm down. I'm okay with being wrong in the short term to be right in the long term. So I'm not, you know, um, I don't know what's gonna happen in the next 6 months. I'm kind of— my thesis is like the market will eventually smarten up and see all the fundamentally sound assets, which, you know, I covered in my course how to like look at that through like Token Terminal, etc. Um, but yeah, right now, man, everything's just It doesn't make sense. Like, the market right now doesn't make sense. Um, everything that is very— has like a real product, a product, community fundamentals, revenue, uh, revenue sharing— grossly undervalued. Everything that has absolutely nothing— grossly overvalued. So I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen or what the next thing is, but I'm just, um, I'm betting on what's working, right? Like, um I mentioned SushiSwap a couple, couple of like minutes ago, and like SushiSwap literally gives you a chance to have a stake in the revenue or the entire, the entire pie. So like that token is directly tied to the success of SushiSwap, right? Where a lot of tokens just, um, aren't that. But yeah, I really don't want to say what's next, but What I think, and I'm really, um, yeah, I don't know, because like Decentraland, Manus, metaverse, all this stuff, like it's great and, um, it's very exciting. But I even— that sector, it— a lot of that stuff is way overvalued. Like Sandbox and Illuvium are like the top, one of the top market caps or whatever in the metaverse space, but neither of them have a product out. Like Sandbox is what Decentraland was in 2017, except Sandbox has a higher market cap, I think. Like, it just doesn't make sense. So,

okay, so, so it's— so I think what you're saying is, uh, you need to look at the, uh, fundamentals of what's there, the, the revenue it's bringing in, and so on.

So that's the best bet. Like, right now, if in an irrational market, you have to be rational and think 2 to 5 years ahead. That's the only way to kind of stay sane. Because if you look at, damn, okay, Doge, it's so easy to fall into the trap of like, you know, being a degen, um, as far as like trading. Because if you look, okay, Doge went up, oh man, I could have made like $200,000 if I bought $50 of Doge a year ago. Or, um, you know, you start thinking like that and then you just disregard all the fundamentally sound projects and what actually, you know, is groundbreaking. And then you just fall into the trap of like trying to day trade. And then you look back, a year goes by, and you're like, damn, if I would have just held my Ethereum or held my Bitcoin, I would have been up so much more, right? And, um, yeah, um, that trap is like super, super easy to fall into.

No, absolutely. So you— just a couple of things, um, I think we had a question about this. So you mentioned Ripple and, um, XRP Ripple and, um, Cardano. What, what are your issues with these, with these projects?

Oh, I think, um, a lot of people know my issue with Cardano. Um, the way I describe Cardano is, um, if a comp— if a— imagine there's a startup which, um, launched 6 to 7 years ago saying they're gonna make a better version of Apple's MacBook, right? And, and today, 7 years later, they're like, we just launched the capability for your— for our MacBook or our laptops to have access to Wi-Fi. And that company is worth like $50 billion. Does that make any type of sense?

No.

And there's nobody can use these laptops. Nobody has these laptops. There's like zero. 7 years. Like, That makes absolutely zero sense, right? And let's say they do, right? They launch, um, you know, I think they did launch smart contracts, but there's still no dApps or no DeFi activity on Cardano. But let's say there is, right? People have just been, um, just moving the goalposts further and further. Uh, like earlier this year, they're like, wait till Goguen comes out, right? That's like, um, next step in their roadmap. Um, came out, okay, wait till the testnet comes out, wait till this comes out, um, wait till smart contracts come out. So smart contracts came out, I'm pretty sure, in September. Now it's nothing happened, right? And now it's wait till DeFi apps start launching on our, on our chain. Like, that's already happening on like 30 other chains. Like, what? There, there's like no value proposition. anymore. Like, you're, you're already behind. So, um, my, my problem with Cardano is that every beginner comes into the space, sees that there is a cheap coin in the top like 3 of market cap rankings, right? They're like, man, Cardano is like $1.50, what if it goes to $1,000, right? They don't understand how market cap works. And then the Cardano community just, um, it's kind of like this cult that, um, like, yeah, man, when, when we launch this, it's to the moon, it's crazy. So Like, all these newbies get trapped in this cycle of thinking Cardano is something when it's technically nothing. Right. So that's my problem with

it. No, I think I fell into that trap as well when I joined, and I just thought, this is brilliant. And then for me, what sort of opened my eyes a bit was when I read or listened to the audiobook called The Infinite Machine by Camille Rousseau about the history of Ethereum. And you hear about how Vitalik fired, uh, Charles Hoskinson and, and, and so on. And then basically you just see the difference between actual action and, and, uh, just, you know, academic stuff and talk. So yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay, great. Um, let's, uh, just jump onto NFTs. So, um, today I know there's a big event about from Decentraland and Ice Poker and so on. So And you, you've done some content about this before. Could you— so for people who don't know what any of that is, could you just give us some background about what is— what this is? How did you— how and when did you get involved in it? And so what you think next for this are going forwards?

Yeah. By the way, um, is this live chat capped to 25 people? I see there's like 25 out of 25. Does that mean no more people can come in?

Um,

Oh, okay. Right, right. Um, but yeah, sorry about that. Um, so for those that don't know, Decentraland is like, um, this huge virtual world built on, uh, the Ethereum blockchain. And, um, there's like X amount of parcels of land when it launched. That like land is scarce and land is now on the market for anybody to buy, sell, or trade. And the value proposition of like having land in the game is, or in the world, is you can build whatever you want on it. So literally Decentral Games started as a company who got a gambling license and bought or negotiated land inside of Decentraland in the Vegas district. And they started building virtual casinos inside. So, um, since Decentraland is built on the blockchain, you kind of can, um, seamlessly, uh, use crypto within— like, it has like a real economy. So Decentral Games, um, took to that and created these virtual casinos where you can, you know, free play, free play, or actually gamble on like roulette, blackjack, all this stuff. And their most recent, um, most recent like move or pivot, whatever you want to call it— I don't even think it's a pivot— is, um, joining the play-to-earn movement. So basically they, um, created play-to-earn Ice Poker, which, um, at first you think it has something to do with gambling, um, but no. Um, essentially how it works is In order to play poker, right, it's, it's on a like a 24-hour schedule. So every 24 hours, um, a new day starts. And if you have an NFT, an Ice Poker NFT wearable, which they release every so often, you can join in every day and you'll get airdropped like 3,000 free play chips. Then you have 24 hours to play those chips, complete the 3 daily challenges, And the more chips you have at the end of the day, the higher your multiplier is. So you're incentivized to actually be decent at poker. And essentially you earn ICE tokens, which is a real cryptocurrency which has value and you can sell for whatever you want. So you're essentially earning real money by playing risk-free poker, right? So it's super fun. I've played it myself. I know there's a couple people in here that have a a wearable. So your wearable is like your entry ticket every day to play-to-earn. And it's super cool because they also added a delegate function. And we saw this with Axie Infinity, and Axie's been like blowing up. I think they're nearing 2 million monthly active users or something like that. And we've seen people in, you know, low-income countries like the Philippines playing Axie Infinity and earning, earning crypto. And that's kind of how they onboarded, um, they got onboarded into this whole world. But they're making a living just playing these play-to-earn games. And, um, Decentral Games Ice Poker is like the, the newest addition to that. I don't think it's the newest because there's just so many roadmaps coming out, different projects trying to ride the wave, but I think it's the most innovative and the most, um, polished actual product, play-to-earn product that's out there. So it's super, super cool, and I'm happy to answer questions if anybody has them in the chat. Um, yeah, already, um, JJD saying, um, he made $100 in 7 days from delegating it to someone in the Philippines. Yeah, I have a video on that. You know, we all have those stories where I'm delegating basically all my wearables to somebody else and I get a 30% cut of whatever they make. And they're making like for their countries, like literally life-changing money. So it's super cool.

And so we'll put the link in the show notes, but how can, so let's say someone, let's say anyone listening wants to get involved, how, as a, in terms of the wearables, how can we get these wearables?

Yeah. So essentially for now at least, I think there will be, 2 monthly drops for these wearables. And, um, so the easiest way is to just buy them on the marketplace, right? The ones that are already out, um, you can get them on OpenSea or the Decentraland marketplace. Um, and yeah, that'll be the easiest way. You— I think the floor right now is maybe one, a little over one Ethereum, one ETH. Um, But for the mints, right, the mints that happen every 2 weeks or so, um, there's usually—

Sorry.

Um, yeah, it's usually way, way cheaper to get it, you know, during the drop. Um, like for example, the very first drop, which it'll never be that low again, was, um, 0.1 ETH per wearable. And, um, That was awesome. But then, you know, the price got raised to 0.25 ETH. And, um, today's, today's drop is going to be 8,000 ICE, which is like $2,000 or something like that. $2,000. So yeah, basically, um, to, to get in these mints, you need to have, um, what was it? You need to have 1,000 xDG on Polygon. I think that's the easiest way. And xDG, uh, is just staked DG. Which is their native token. And once you have that, you are now eligible to participate in the mint. And then obviously, like whatever the crypto that the mints will be sold in, you need to have on your Polygon wallet. So today is going to be ICE, and usually it's in ETH. So you just need to have that. And yeah, you're basically set. You go to their website when a, um, drop is about to happen, and they'll announce it like beforehand, so it's not like last minute. So you'll have some time to get set up, and they have a guide in there. They have, you know, chats that you can ask more questions on, and honestly, all the questions have been answered. So if you go to the Discord and just search, um, you'll be able to find those. Yeah, but that's all you need. You just need a staked DG to participate, and then, you know, whatever currency is being uh, the wearables are being sold in, you need that as well, all on Polygon. And, um, yeah, it's that simple.

Okay, so let's say we, let's say we just went ahead and, and either put it on the, on the, um, on the marketplace or minted it. And let's say, okay, we went ahead and spent 1 ETH. Is there a— do you think there's still a lot of potential for, for, you know, return on investment, that kind of stuff, or Even at 1 ETH, or is that kind of, uh, are we sort of at the—

Yeah, um, well, I mean, I bought, I bought a pair of Genesis pants yesterday for 1.3 ETH, so I definitely do think there is a potential. Um, so there's 2 sides of it, right? One is the speculative side, which, um, um, you know, that's, that's kind of like a toss-up because never know what's gonna go crazy, right? People are going paying 6 figures for, you know, just profile pictures that do nothing. So, you know, there's, um, there's an aesthetic, aesthetic side to it where, you know, maybe this collection looks super cool to the masses and, um, it takes off. But I think in general, all of them look super cool because unlike profile pictures, these are actual wearables you can wear in the metaverse. Right? And even if it was just that, I think that alone is way cooler than profile pictures. But on top of that, right there, it's an income-generating NFT. Right. So whether you want to delegate it and get passive income or whether you want to play yourself, you know, the APR is crazy. So even if you buy for like 1 ETH, I think the returns you get is still like triple digits if you were to play with them. So

Okay.

Yeah, I think it's super— like, if you, you know, people value businesses based on their cash flow or revenue. If you value these NFTs like that, you know, they're— I think they're worth way more than 1 ETH. So I'm super bullish, obviously, and I'm just kind of hoarding and collecting these and delegating. So if, if the masses catch on, I think they will. Yeah. I'm betting that these become super valuable because it's just— it's crazy. I'm literally getting passive income every day from these NFTs, and it's a solid amount.

So, okay, yeah. And I watched your video of someone, I think in Argentina, which was, uh, uh, who you delegated a wearable to, and he was making money, which is, uh, as you said, like, you know, substantial for his country. So that's pretty good. Okay, so we have a question. Um, the question was actually outside DeFi, just say outside of DeFi and Decentraland, what are you following in crypto? Not aping, but following.

Following. Um, you mean projects in general or like movements, trends?

Not quite sure what that question is. I think let's just— however you want to answer that. So something, you know, which you're excited about. Uh, yeah, maybe it's trends, maybe it's, uh,

Right,

a specific project.

Right, right. Um, honestly, I'm excited about so much. Um, but specifically, like, DeFi and play-to-earn, I think, are super exciting. Um, as far as— let me see something more specific. Um, well, I think Decentral Games, and I've voiced this since like April of this year, I'm super excited about Decentral Games just because They keep being so innovative, whether it's play-to-earn or metaverse. I'm super, super bullish on what they've got going on just because like I know like how hard the team works and all that, and just like how cool they're basically the most popular destination in Decentraland, and they're the first metaverse employer. They are the biggest DAO landowner in Decentraland. They are, you know, they have countless of these like accolades that I can keep saying, um, yet they're only like, you know, 100-something hundred— I don't know how much million market cap, but it's super, super low. So I'm definitely long on them and what they've got going on. And just because the metaverse is like so You know, I thought it was cool way before it was cool, um, like earlier this year, like very, very beginning. Um, but, and then in DeFi, I think I'm kind of, um, what, what's been catching my eye is, um, the, the innovation that Olympus Pro made. And I'm not talking about like OHM staking and all that, but just The approach to— for dApps to kind of not do such— not inflate their tokens so much just to give them out in farming, but to kind of do the whole bonding process where they can sell their tokens at a discount and get liquidity that way, right? So they own their own liquidity. I think that's super cool. And, um, you know, I see a lot of dApps kind of— I don't want to say realizing, but the whole farming, using the farming thing as a marketing budget to kind of like kickstart their token is not really sustainable or great because a lot of people just farm then dump. And I think this could be interesting. Things like Tokamak and Olympus Olympus Pro are super interesting products to kind of— that innovated on the whole liquidity mining, um, thing. But yeah, it's, it's all so new. Like, DeFi is so new that, um, this may be the next step. I don't know. And I don't know if— who's— yeah, that's just something I've noticed that, um, a lot of people are— a lot of dApps are, um, starting to get interested in the whole bonding thing. Instead of just inflating the token and giving it away for free.

Yeah, no, I think that makes— definitely there's a lot of interest in that. Um, what else? So let me ask you this question. What do you think is cool now which is not cool? To paraphrase what you just said.

Sorry, can you say that again? What do I think is cool now?

So you said a few minutes ago you thought the metaverse was cool before it was cool. So what do you think is cool now but not cool in the world, I guess? So I mean, what no one's talking about, no one's— it's not really on people's radars. What, you know, what are some of those kind of things which no one's really talking about?

Easy. DeFi blue chips. You know, they— it's, it's funny because DeFi blue chips during DeFi summer and like the months leading after that are what started this whole like bull run, whatever you want to call it. But they basically like opened Pandora's box and everybody was fascinated, but then everybody forgot about them. But the whole DeFi ecosystem and like infrastructure still leans on those blue chips. So it's kind of funny, they were the coolest thing, now they're not cool, but I think they're slowly starting to become cool again. And, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of what I think is not cool now but will be cool, um, very soon. Just because, um, I think as a whole, like, everybody in the crypto world, we got distracted by so many crazy— I mean, it's been a circus this year. Let's, let's not like kid ourselves. It's just been so many crazy things have been happening. Um, we all kind of got distracted. And I think eventually we're all gonna zone back in on what's actually— like, I saw a stat today. I think Curve has more TVL than Solana and was it Avalanche combined? Something like that, right? And like, nobody cares about Curve right now. Like, you know, that's, that's, it's not like a cool dApp, right? People want to put the frog emoji in their Twitter name and become a frog boy with the whole Wonderland community, right? That's the cool thing. But Curve has crazy amount of TVL and it's literally a huge support beam for DeFi. So I think that will be cool again, like when, when the DeFi blue chips start getting that recognition once again.

So Compound, Aave, Curve, those— yeah.

Um, yeah, so what I'm looking forward to in 2022 is, um, I don't know if anybody's familiar with the protocol sync thesis, but essentially it sounds like a super smart thing, but it's very simple. Um, basically like all the DeFi apps that are, um, being used by— how should I, how should I word this? Um, let's say Aave, right? PoolTogether uses Aave, right? So you can say it's kind of built on top of it, right? And Aave is used by a lot of other dApps. So it's kind of like a zero-layer protocol that kind of sinks to the bottom because everybody's building on top of it. The next step I think is, and it's already happened now, fintechs and traditional finance is going to start building on the Aaves of the world, even pooled together, right? There was On Twitter, I saw, um, was it Pete Kim's? I think he, he does Web3 at Coinbase. Um, he replied to Leighton's tweet when he was like— I think Leighton said, I can't wait for, um, DeFi to launch on Coinbase. I'm sure they're gonna put pools together, um, as like one of the first, uh, dApps that you can interact with. And Pete Kim replied, you know, only a matter of time or something like that. So Besides that, Coinbase already launched, I think, and it's not available in the USA, but, um, you can earn like DAI directly on Coinbase. But what they do is they deposit that DAI onto Compound. So like it's already happening, right? Um, all these DeFi apps that kind of proven themselves to be sustainable and you know, the blue chips that we always talk about, they're going to start being used by, by, um, fintechs and traditional finance. And that's going to be huge, right? Because if Coinbase is using Compound to generate interest for its users, wouldn't you think they would want to, or they would need to buy some COMP tokens to start having a say in what happens in the governance of Compound? So like, that's the whole governance token um, thesis, whatever you want to call it, that I've kind of clung on to. When companies start using DeFi apps, they're going to need to buy, um, the tokens just so they have a say, because they don't want to— you know, they want to have power over, over that protocol as well.

Very, very interesting. Yeah. Okay, what are the other big trends you see in 2022? Anything else which may be different from 2021 or anything new or just continuation?

Mm-hmm. Um, I think metaverse and play-to-earn are just getting started, even though it looked like, you know, after the Facebook announcement that it kind of— things kind of peaked for a little bit. Um, but I think all that did is just put a lot of more, you know, it planted the seed, the metaverse seed, in a lot of like the mainstream masses' brains. And, um, now people are going to start looking into, okay, like, what is this? You know, I heard about it from Facebook, but why do I keep hearing about it? Um, I saw CNBC, like, it's, it's all over Twitter today, like somebody, um, some reporter there's, you know, going over the under-the-radar metaverse plays in like Decentraland, Mana, Sandbox, and all these things. So I think maybe, um, maybe that whole play— yeah, play-to-earn is probably the most interesting in that space. But you know, you never know, you never know. Um, the space moves so fast. I'm not really sure, um, what's gonna pop off, but I think those are kind of prime too.

Okay, great. So we've got just a few more things. So when is there going to be a Donut token? When Donut token is a question we have.

Never. That sounds like— no, I actually do have a really cool project in mind. It doesn't, it doesn't have anything to do with donuts, but I don't want to say too much. But we'll see. Hopefully it pans out. I'm super, super busy these days, but that's, that's like a, like a passion project I really want to get out in the next, you know, quarter or 2. It will, and it may involve— it's not gonna involve like Uh, we'll see. I don't want to say too much, but

okay,

it's gonna involve the metaverse in some type of way.

Okay, great. All right, no, that sounds, sounds very, very interesting. So just to wrap up, uh, what— so we, we spoke last week with Oops on, on the podcast, and, um, he was talking about future being music NFTs. What are your thoughts on that area?

Um, well One thing I am hoping is that, you know, the whole profile picture, you know, NFT craze dies down and goes away just because there's so many cool things happening with the NFT world that, you know, people are just, you know, being distracted from, um, you know, all that with these, you know, all these collections launching like, hey, we have 10,000 10,000 profile pictures. They're all, you know, randomly generated. You know, I've been getting those DMs for months and months, and just like, I don't know how people aren't bored of that. Um, you know, they'll never go away just because people want to speculate and, um, and, you know, buy low, sell high and all that. But basically, I think profile picture NFTs are going to be like the meme coins that we saw in that we kind of see in DeFi. So, um, yeah, even in NFTs, I'm like the same way. Like, I see, I see those as like the meme coins of NFTs, and I'm more excited about like the fundamentally sound things, like the, like these play-to-earn wearables, uh, that Decentral Games launches. Like, there's, there's so many cooler things to do with NFTs. Um, hmm. Yeah, maybe, maybe music takes off. I don't know. There's just so many opportunities, but, um, Yeah, that's my take on, you know, the whole NFT wave. I think there's too much, there's too much noise. Um, I don't know what's— I don't know if like an NFT bear market's gonna happen, but yeah, I just think people will get bored at some point. I mean, I've already seen like crypto Twitter or NFT Twitter start talking about, um, you know, NFTs with utilities. So I think that's already happening.

Hmm.

And that's why I'm super bullish on the ICE wearables because there's no better utility out there for NFTs. I mean,

okay, great. Okay, well, um, let's sort of wrap it up. But, uh, anything else you'd like to say? Uh, any, any other thoughts? Uh, anything else that you're excited about, especially in 2022? And any predictions? Anything else you'd like to, like to say?

Super excited. I'm super excited about everything happening really in DeFi. I'm super excited in the direction of PoolTogether is going in. I think V4 is an amazing success in my eyes, even though it's like so early on. But, and I'm probably saying that because I'm winning all the time, but no. Yeah, I think the whole multichain thing is super, super cool. And, um, I do think, um, isn't PoolTogether like the first truly multi-chain dApp? I know we were all saying that while it was launching, but that'll be a super cool, like, um, title to have. I'm not really sure if that's, that's true, but I think it is. And I know we just launched on Avalanche as well, so I gotta check how that's doing. But, um, Yeah, I'm super excited about literally everything happening in DeFi.

Okay, no, that's, that's great. So, um, I'd like to thank you very much for your, for your time today, and, uh, we'll, we'll put together the show notes and, uh, people will definitely, you know, definitely check out Chris's course because, uh, I think it's really— it's both, you know, down to earth and also Detailed, but also sort of clear, easy to follow, and lifetime updates, as Chris says. So you'll always be able to catch up on sort of the newest developments. So great. So thank you once again.

Yep. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was fun.

Okay. Yeah.