86: The Rhythms of Creativity and Business Featuring Morgan Harper Nichols

I probably never even met the person who created that, who decided that. But then pausing and thinking about a possibility of someone like me is a part of why I'm here today.

I'm Bonnie Christine and this is where all things creativity, design, business and marketing unite. I'm a mama living in a tiny town tucked right inside the Smoky Mountains, running a multi seven figure business, doing the most creative and impactful work of my life. But when I first set out to become an entrepreneur, I was struggling to make ends meet and wrestling with how to accomplish my biggest dream of becoming a fabric designer. Fast forward to today. I'm not only licensing my artwork all over the world, but also teaching others how to design their creative life and experience the same success. This I'm here to help you spend your life doing something that lights you up. I'll help you build a creative business that also creates an impact, changes people's lives, gives you all of the freedom you want, and is wildly profitable welcome to the Professional Creative Podcast. I am so incredibly excited excited to share our guest with you today. It is none other than Morgan Harper Nichols. I am recording this just after I finished our interview and I can't tell you how incredible this session is. I feel completely different coming out of it as I did when I walked into it and so I know that if you're feeling busy or stressed or behind or overwhelmed, just, just take this time and let Morgan just pour into you. She's incredibly just inspiring. So if you're not familiar with Morgan, she's a popular Instagram poet and artist. She's created her life's work around the stories of others. Her popular Instagram feed is Morgan Harper Nichols has garnered a loyal online community of over 2 million people and she's the author of youf Are Just Beginning, a book, a book of poems and art she created in response to the personal stories submitted by her friends and followers. She also hosts a podcast, the Morgan Harper Nichols show, where she shares daily reflections on finding meaning and peace in life and work. Morgan has also performed as a vocalist on several Grammy nominated projects and written for various artists including Billboard Number one single performer by her sister Jamie Grace. Morgan's iconic Instagram art has inspired millions and landed her brand partnerships with Anthropologie, Coach, Adobe, Vogue, Singapore, Aerie, Target, Starbucks, Kindbar, Gap, Splendid, John Paul Mitchell, and so much more. Morgan is often on the road creating, teaching and performing in hopes of spreading her unique inspirational message and inviting others into her creative I'm especially excited to introduce her to you because she's also one of our keynote speakers at the Immersion Live conference coming up this October. So you're going to be able to get to know her, dip your toes into her world. And if you're joining us for this conference, you can find out more@bonniecristine.com 2023Immersion live. We'd love to see you there. And you'll be able to learn more from Morgan. Hello, Morgan. Morgan. Do people call you Morgan or is it always Morgan Harper Nichols?

You know, I actually get called MHN quite a bit, which is so funny because the reason why I started to sign my work mhn, it was not like an artistic poetic. It was like I'm tired of writing this whole name. I just want something short. And then one day I met someone, they're like, mhn. I was like, who's that? So honestly, anything works. Anything works. Morgan. The whole name, you know, in my chin.

We're so excited to have you. I'm so thrilled to have you on the podcast today, introduce you. Well, just let our listeners really do a deep dive into your world. Could you just take us back and give us a nice overview of what you do today, but also a little bit more about your creative journey too?

Yes, yes. So I am an artist, is probably the shortest way to explain it, primarily visual artists. And I do lots of creative writing as well and poetry. And I, I consider myself very, very fortunate that I grew up in a, in a, in a very creative household where creativity was encouraged and I was homeschooled. So I always like to say that because I, I consider it a huge privilege that I got that at a young age because there was always kind of like this tone of like just try stuff. Like. And my, I have one sibling, my sister and I, we both talk about that really. We can see that in both of our adult lives as well. So my story is a lot of different ways of trying that before. Ultimately, I guess I'll use the word landing. Landing on. In 2016, 2017, I fell in love with digital art and I fell in love with digital visual art. And I had tried in different ways before, but it was very specifically I saw an art I like an iPad television commercial and there was like an apple pencil. And I was like, that looks like something I could try. Because in all of my creative trying one and exploring and curiosities, one thing that I really struggled with was, was one financially I really struggled because I didn't, I didn't really have a lot of other skills. Like, for me, it wasn't like, oh, arts, like you're side thing that you do in addition to the other thing. I kept trying to make the other thing. It never, never really happened. So all of my skills, even when I had like, like a cubicle job, it was like, oh, you're so creative. I'm like, I'm not trying to be creative. I'm just trying to be a. But it just oozes out, I guess. So that was the first thing I struggled with. And that also, as I got older, the financial part began to affect my creative curiosity because now it's more expensive when you want to go to the craft store and just buy canvases and just buy paints and explore. So I was really struggling because I was like, I can't just keep buying new camera equipment and trying to. I can't afford to do it. So I was like, oh, this iPad is cool though, because I can just. If I could just buy the iPad, I can try all kinds of things. So that was a huge turning point for me was discovering rediscovering, actually, because I tried when I was a bit younger, rediscovering digital art. And it also was at a time where I was just very stressed financially. And I ended up writing a poem about it. And I wrote a poem just about the stresses that came with that particular year. And it was coming towards the end of 2016. And then in 2017, that was when something just like a. Just me kind of like just lamenting of my own struggles and talking about trying to find grace amidst those struggles that I shared a poem that got over a hundred thousand repins on Pinterest. And that became like the impetus of like, oh, I don't know what that was, but it was something. And from that moment forward, I was like, well, let me just try to build, keep building on that. And that has turned into books. It's turned into. I do a lot of different collaborations with brands, sometimes product collaborations. I've done a few things with anthropology. I do a lot with Hallmark right now. Pottery Barn, have some things at Target. And a lot of that has just come from just sharing the little bits and pieces along the way from. From that first moment of discovering that iPad and writing that poem.

That's incredible. You also have about a cool 2 million people that you inspire on Instagram. So Morgan is being super humble. You have a new book. That's your second book, right? So you're an author, you have your own podcast, you developed an app. It's incredible. And, you know, the way that you do it is just so inspiring because it's so relatable and it's also just filled with hope and grace and it's a beautiful like touch. It really goes straight to the heart. And so it's no wonder that you're able to impact so many people.

Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

Morgan. You talk a lot about rhythms, rhythms and creativity and embracing kind of the natural rhythm. I would love to hear you talk more about that. Like define what a rhythm is for you and how does that play into your work.

Yes, I always start with the rhythm of the heartbeat and just thinking about how our hearts beat in different ways while we're doing different things. And the rhythm of that heartbeat will change. So I always start with that even with my creative practice and just, you know, I'm. I'm a mom of a four year old. Just life stuff. It's very important for me to think about rhythms because I think it's very easy to feel. And I've dealt with this a lot of feeling swayed or pressured by something that I see or I'm inspired by. Such as? Like, if I like. There's a book that I really love that I've read quite a bit. I've read it three times, I think, called Deep Work by Cal Newport.

I love Deep. Yes.

Yeah, I love that book. But there are times in my life where I'm not able to get into the deep work, where I'm again chasing around a four year old trying to send PSD files for some collaboration that I'm doing. And for me, embracing rhythms is not feeling bad about that. Like, not feeling bad when the days or weeks or months have passed on something or years on something that I wanted to work on and. Or that I was working toward and I didn't finish it or I didn't. It's like I was in one rhythm in that space and now I'm in a different one. But someday I'll be back. For instance, I'm working right now on. So I decided to go back to grad school and that was just sort of like a me thing. I really. I tried to pursue my MFA when I graduated from undergraduate, but that didn't work out again financially. It was just. It was quite an endeavor. So I saved up my money and I'm back in school now and I am loving it. And as I'm in school, the things that I'm working on, there have been moments where I'm like, wow, imagine if you had worked on this stuff 10 years ago where you would be. But then I have to remind myself. I'm like. And also imagine where you'll be by working on it now. Imagine by being here right now. Your child seeing you go through this experience, your child seeing you like. Like, I literally have, like, an aluminum box, like, beside my desk. It's like a part of some project that I'm working on. And he thinks it's a toy and are just like, all these different things that are coming up as a result of me being in school. So that's sort of like a short answer of. Of embracing rhythms is just recognizing, especially in those moments where I do start to feel like I'm not doing enough. Or what if I started this way earlier? Or what if I was actually had been able to commit to abcd, whatever. When I get to that place, just reminding myself of the times where I was running and my heart was beating one way, and when I was resting, my heart was. Heart rate. Heart rate was slowing down. And I'm like, yeah, that's so much. There's so much depth in that simple thing. So I always like to bring it back to the heart.

There's so much love there for yourself and the different places that you're at. I think everyone can resonate with that so much. And, like, admittedly, for many years, I would kind of run. Run dry. I would. For me, it's different for everyone, but for me, it's like summer and end of summer, which is oddly where we're at right now. And I would just be like, well, I guess I'm done. I'll never have another good idea or be motivated ever again. And it finally dawned on me that that was just part of my annual rhythm, because it always comes back, and it always comes back on fire. And there's a trusting. There's like a. You finally learn how to trust the process.

Yes. Yeah. And it's. It's hard when you're in the process because it's. You can feel. You can feel that tension. You can feel the tension of where you were and where you're trying to go. And it just feels like, well, why am I here in this place of tension? But then you look back and you realize, oh, I was at one point in the process. So, yeah, I love that you mentioned the seasons as well, because that's. That's a very good way to think about it, too. The rhythms. Rhythms of nature.

Okay, so you sound, like, just so full of grace for your rhythms and projects and unfinished projects and starting things late. But, Morgan, you have accomplished so much. I want to talk to the people who, like, might actually feel stuck. Like, okay, they're trying to embrace the fact, but the reality is they haven't made any progress on something that they actually want to make progress on in a long time. Have you ever felt that? And do you have any tricks or tips on how to just gain kind of like momentum and fluidity again?

Yes. I spend most of my time in my creative process and I really do think this is a defining factor in my, my success projects. It's so hard to say that word. Just throw that out there. Like, as I said that, I'm like, oh, it's hard to say it, but maybe that's some work that I need to do. It's like, that's beautiful. You know, embrace it. Oh, yes, thank you. It's to say that, but it is true. Because I've had to learn how to find a way to measure success. Because even sometimes what ends up being a success to other people in the background, there may have been a component that wasn't successful to me or something that. For instance, when you publish books, there's always these whispers of being on the bestsellers list and things like that. And I've had books that were not on bestsellers list. And there are times where that does start to feel like, well, you know, so and so mentioned it. So maybe I. Oh, yeah, I guess the book didn't do that well. And I'll have those thoughts to myself and I'll have. Or I'll have moments where, you know, maybe I was able to do a collaboration and I thought it was going to lead to another one. And the one that ended up getting out there was. Was great and people engaged with it, but behind the scenes it was like, oh, but I thought that was. That was actually like one fourth of what I thought we were going to be doing. And, you know, where's that one piece? Like, I thought there was going to be something with that. And so I had to learn how to embrace like, well, I can't use the final product as like, the measurement of success because that part's out of my hands because I'm not able to. I've actually had this happen where my mom will be in a store and be like, why didn't you tell me that you had this product? I was like, mom, to be honest, I didn't even know that store picked up, pick that up. I didn't know it was in there. And there's all kinds of things that end up happening like that where I'm like, you know, I can't. As exciting as that is, I'm grateful. I can't just sit around and wait for that. Because it gets to a point where. And this happens. Even if. Even if you just upload a TikTok video, this can happen. Like, you can create a TikTok account today where you are quilting a. Or a crocheting a kitten hat or something, and it could go viral overnight. And then, you know, you don't have any control over who sees it or. So I'm not the only person that can happen to where you do something and it gets out there and then success just becomes this, like, swarm of bees, honeybees, just all in the world. So for me, I'm like, I have to find another way to measure that impact, to measure that success of the thing. So for me, it's the feedback. It is a feedback from people. That is kind of all I'm looking for, to be honest. I spend a lot of time in my dms. I spend a lot of time in my email. I spent a lot of time reading letters people have sent me. Just today, I was taking screenshots of. I've done, like, these affirmation calendars where they were just. I just. I just like doodling on calendars. So I doodled, like, some affirmations of just like 30 days. This is something I did over a year ago. And someone sent me a DM about something I posted yesterday. And I went into that DM and I saw riot miss. They were a school teacher. They had taken that affirmation thing. This was a year and a half ago. They'd taken the affirmation thing and they had turned it into an assignment in their classroom. And I was like, whoa, I never would have even thought of that. And that was very exciting for me to hear because I'm actually about to release the affirmation calendar thing again. So I was like, I wasn't even thinking about that application for a teacher being able to use that in the classroom. But now I am. So I spend most of my time on that Now. I will say it does. It does get a little tricky because sometimes people will give you feedback for things that you can't do or things that you don't want to do. So I will say that I have had to learn how to manage my energy and how to pause and see how I feel when requests come in. So if someone says, oh, wow, this would have made a really, really nice waste basket. And I'm like, well, yeah, but I. That didn't excite me. That doesn't mean that or I didn't think about it later on that day. Another gauge is just talking to my husband because he's the one that has to hear just all the random things that come out of my head.

Yeah, one big hug for all the husbands.

Yeah, he's one. It's like. I'm like, okay, you're the only adult in this house right now. So. Yeah, when I. When me and my sister were roommates in college, it was her, so. And she's very creative, too. So that was just nonsense. It was crazy. But the thing is, it's like, I'm like, oh, I told him about the affirmation thing and the calendar and the classroom. That means that it was exciting for me. But if someone said, oh, you could make a turtleneck, or these would be like, for instance, I don't do a ton with apparel. That's not to say that there's no opportunities in apparel. I have had some, but I don't spend as much time on that. I'm thinking about things on walls. That's just energetically. That's where my mind goes. Like, my mind goes to the wall. What's on the wall? What kind of room is it in? Where's the light in the room? I could talk about that for an hour. So that's what I'm looking for in feedback. Yes. I'm open to all the requests, but I also have to filter it through what I'm actually capable of, what I actually like to do. And that's something I had to learn because for a while, getting a lot of feedback of like, wow, I really like these hummingbirds that you did. I would kind of take that as, like, well, do I need to do 60 more? So it's. It does take some. Some. Some discipline, I guess, and. And some practice of just learning how to pause and say, wow, thank you so much, person who gave you this feedback. But am I talking about it an hour later? Am I thinking about it? Am I. Did that energize me in some way? And I have been. And I'm taking so much time on this because I've been so shocked by how many of my collaborations have been aligned with that. It's been aligned with the things that I think. Think about all the time. So I do a lot of journals. I do a lot of planners. That's something that I think about. I've gotten to do collaborations with people who I used to buy their products long before they reached out to me. And I'm like, there's something to that. Like when I. And I think when. For someone who's just like, totally stuck, what I recommend that you do is if you, if you have access to go into a store that has, say, a department store, which department are you going into? Are you going right to the books? Are you going right to apparel? Are you going right to planners? And of course it's going to be different. Different seasons of life, different reasons. But if you just have like a day to yourself to just explore, what kind of places are you finding yourself in? For me, I'm finding myself in bookstores. I'm finding myself in the journal sections. I love just looking at journals. I remember back in the day they used to have. They may still have. I don't see them that much anymore, but they used to have like in Walmart, they had like those, like, they have like all the boy bands. Like those posters that you could like, swipe through the swivelly.

Oh yeah.

And look. Oh, yeah.

I know exactly what you mean.

My parents will be shopping and I would stand there for like 15, 20 minutes. I just loved looking at the posters and just swiping through. What do I make today? I make wall art. So. So if you're stuck, you're like, well, I overthink it when I go into the store. Maybe you can try looking back when you were, when you were a kid, where were you going? Some kids are going straight to look at dolls or look at cars or look at the video game section. Where. Where were you? Where were you interested in the material and holding the thing? Like, I used to get some. So excited about agendas and like the stickers. So I spent a lot of time on that because I, I'm. I'm surprised at how my collaborations today, I have started to trace them back to things that I've always just been drawn to. And I think that's there's something to it because, yes, you're serving people and you're creating things for other people to engage with. But. But you're also there too. And, and nurturing that part of you is. Is really valuable too.

Mark your calendars for this. October 19th through the 21st, because our annual conference for creative Immersion Live is coming up. We've gathered a spectacular lineup of industry leaders, artists and entrepreneurs like Amy Porterfield, Morgan Harper, Nichols Glow Otonmo, and Nicholas Wilton, plus many, many more for an unmatched virtual conference experience. Immersion Live this year is all about the art of business for the professional creative over three days, you'll unlock strategies to guide your business effectively, refine your designs and establish a flourishing creative career. And the best part is that you can experience it all from the comfort of your own home. We do a live virtual conference like nobody else. Sessions will allow for real time interaction, questions answered, and a sense of community that's honestly hard to match. Our event kicks off with Open studio night on October 19th, where you'll get to peek behind the curtain of some incredibly successful artists and designers. The next two days, you'll immerse yourself in keynote sessions and workshops where you'll learn, interact and have all your questions answered, come engaged with like minded creatives, make meaningful connections and open the doors to collaboration. We're also recording every session so you can revisit and absorb this wealth of knowledge at your own pace. Head ON over to bonniechristine.com 2023interersion live to join us. Okay, you said something that makes me want to ask you this question which I hadn't planned on asking you, but you don't know this, but I just recently published a few episodes on the podcast around really Growing Yourself as you grow your business so that you can, like when you reach success or explode overnight, you can handle some of the stuff that comes with it.

Yes.

So how do you like, given that you intentionally put yourself in the line of all that feedback, what have you done to prepare yourself to see like difficult feedback or people who say things that are like we're talking, you know, like the really outfield type of stuff that you get and you inevitably, you see at the size that you're at on social media, how do you manage that kind of thing?

Yes, that's such a good question. And just, you know, full transparency, that's something that is not easy. I've had periods where someone's left an unfavorable review on a book of mine and I cried over it and I was just like, and, and for me, I find myself the most impacted by early feedback. And that one in particular was. And it's funny, it's happened with several books actually, where early on someone says something and it's. And I think it gets to me more because it feels like, well, that sets the tone for how other people are going to encounter it or experience it. And the most recent time where I had that kind of feeling and it really got me down was this year. So it's not, that's not something that I just, I'm like, oh, that's behind me. I don't worry about the feedback. But one thing I. I do try to do is I try to look for, if I feel it, it's just like sitting with me, like, I can't stop thinking about it or I react to it emotionally, you know, even just internally, even if I don't say anything to them, I'm just reacting to it. One thing I try to do is look for, is there something I can talk about inside of this that can just help me release it a little bit? And this is where I kind of part from things that I've heard some people say. And I'm like, maybe it works for some people, but for my personality, it doesn't. I hear people say, ignore the haters. Ignore the haters. And I'm like, sometimes you can't, but sometimes you can't.

Like, sometimes we're so heartfelt, like, everything we do is like ours. We put our soul out there.

Yes. It's like, yeah, you're putting your heart out there. It's like, no, I'm going to be affected by it. Like, this is. This is my story woven into these things, my life experiences, like, things that affect me as a person. And even though there's the brand me that's out there, it's still connected to me like a real person. So I'm like, no, I. I'm not. If there have been some times where I get something and I'm just like, yeah, I'm just going to ignore that and that's fine. Great, great job working. You did it. But for all the other times where that doesn't happen, I do look for an example to. To give. And sometimes I may share that even with my audience, like, especially if I feel like it's affecting my work. So when my last book, when that happened and someone left a review and it says something along the lines of which I've heard before, but for some reason, it just really got to me this time. It was something along the lines of like, oh, this, this is the kind of poetry that just belongs on Instagram, is what they said, and not in a book format. And I've heard that before. And I've been like, you know what? Whatever. Like. But for some reason, this particular way that they said it, it just really, really got to me. So what I did was I was like, you know what? Yes, I'm feeling something about this, but there's also something else in here I wanted to talk about, and that was how, by me being a black autistic woman, I talked about how. And I did a whole post about it. I was like, look, you're allowed to have feedback about, you know, my work, but at the end of the day, I know that what the work I'm doing, I represent a group of people that really don't even have that many books out there to begin with. And I'm willing to. I didn't say this exact way, but I'm like, in a way, I'm willing to take the punch in a. In a way, because I hope that this can help somebody else be inspired to make something, and maybe what they make will be something else, and we can just keep building something together and there's going to be different things for everyone.

And.

And I know that what I'm contributing, it matters and it has an impact, and I know that my story matters. And even just affirming that for myself and like, sharing that with others, I got so many comments from other people who are writers, who are authors. And we're saying, thank you for sharing this, because I'm tired of being told, just ignore the haters or ignore, like, it gets to me. Thank you for saying that. And I found so much freedom in that. And since then, that particular moment, I honestly feel like I've continued to do that anytime it comes up in different ways. Like, sometimes it might just be like a. A long journal entry that I write to myself, and I'll just put a note on it, share this in five years, like, I have. Like this. Yeah. And I'm like, there's going to come a time where I'll share this story and. And it's going to help somebody. Sometimes it's too fresh to share it in that moment. But, yeah, I think it comes down to just giving yourself permission to feel like. Don't. Don't feel like, oh, in order to do this, I've got to be, oh, so tough. And I'm not allowed to have feelings about it. No, we're allowed to talk about it. Like, let's talk about it more. And of course, let's support each other as we talk about it more.

And also, like, honestly being willing to be the one that takes the punch, because I know a lot of people who are letting the one person or the. The possibility of that one person hold them back from showing up. And you've got to show up for the. The 999.

Yeah.

They need you. They're waiting for you. And it's impactful. So thank you for answering that question.

Oh, yes. Oh, can I add one more little thing to that, too? Yeah, I'll just Say that also, too, with the whole like, oh, this poetry belongs on Instagram. I just want to say that I have started to recognize that a lot of times that criticism, it does have a flip side of it too, because a lot of people like the accessibility of the poetry. They like the fact that, oh, this is a book that I never read poetry before, but I read yours. So that's kind of like my version. Like, yeah, I'm at peace now with someone saying that, because I know there's this whole other side of like, well, this is. This is now a book for other people who may have never picked up a book like this before. And I find that very exciting.

Right. And oftentimes you won't necessarily hear that from them. You've got to know that it's there. Like, they're not necessarily.

Yes.

You know, you've got to know. You've got to know that sometimes the loudest people are the minority in their feelings like this. Just one person who. Who said that, you got to remember all the other people who think the exact opposite.

Yes.

Okay. That's powerful. Okay. More lighthearted. You know, at this point, you're running a tremendous business. You're also working with an immense amount of creativity. So I do kind of the same thing. I would love to hear how you kind of flip flop. Do you flip flop between business and creativity? Do you do this, do both of those things on the same day? What does it look like for you to really run the business and really create art?

Yes, that's such a good question. And I. I've had to become very organized. I'll just say that, like, that's the only way that I'm able to do it. Because I. For a long time, I really resisted that because I'm like, no, I'm an artist. I want to have freedom to just do whatever. But the older I get and the more. Just deeper I get and the more experience I get, the more I find it's like, well, a little bit of organization actually can help you have more freedom to do what you want to do. So the way that I kind of organize things so that I can make the business decisions and so that I can make the creative decisions is. I'm just very, very clear about, like, what categories are mine, what do I need help with? If I can't get help with that thing, then how does it need to go? Because I. So some examples of that would be taxes. Okay. Like, I just.

Best thing I ever. Outsourced.

Yes. That was the first thing that we're like, okay, let's get some help with this. And it's a bit of. It's hard because it's like, there's a lot of tutorials out there. There's. There's a lot of west. There's a lot of things like, oh, I could do it, I could do it. But I'm like, you know what, we're gonna let this one go. And then also that same energy for what I'm going to hold on to. So for me, I hold onto my inbox. I've tried to get help with it, but the thing is, is that I found that for myself. And because I'm. I'm very multidisciplinary. Like, I do graphic design, illustration, like, I do quite a bit writing, poetry, prose, essays. And what I found is that when I had someone helping me and this happened like a few times, I was like, I think you're going to have to help me with someone else. Something else. I think I'm going to have to take this back. There will be times where our requests would come in where they might not necessarily know that that's something that I would have really wanted to say yes to.

Right.

Or something I would have really wanted to say no to. And it could be, for instance, sidebar thing. I'm a video gamer. I love playing Sims 4. That's my favorite game. And the fun fact, yeah, I love playing games. So there's certain things that might come through that someone else might be like, this has nothing to do with what Morgan does. And that's actually happened a few times with my husband, who he's now my business partner. He's, you know, he's the off to the taxes person of that side of the business. But there's been times where he's missed things. And he lives with me. We've been together since 2009. And he's like, I have no idea you were interested in that. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, how could you miss this? So I'm like, you know what I want, I want to keep being in here. So that doesn't mean that I have to respond to every little thing, But a lot of what I spend my day doing now, now that I have things coming in, is I'll sit down on my computer and I'll get to work on things that I know I have to do. So if I have, like a big collaboration coming up, then I'll just work on assets and things like that. And I try not to open my email until afternoon and Then that's when I get in there and I sit, see? And that lets me know what's urgent. Because I also do this thing and I don't know if other people do it. I do this thing where I add urgency to things that may not actually have that level of urgency.

Oh, no, I don't know what you're talking about.

So I will. I'll be on a call with someone. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could have that to you by Friday when they would have been fine with it. The next Friday. Yeah.

What is the.

I know.

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

That I've done that. So I'm like, I've got to get out of that inbox early and just let it simmer. And then I will get to it after lunch, I will look in the inbox and I'm like, oh, there it is. And I adjust my to do list accordingly. So I use trello, which has like a. I think I'm pronouncing correctly, Kanban system, K A N, B A N. And it's essentially like, has like different columns or you can organize to do lists and things like that. So I spend a lot of time on productivity, YouTube, staying up to speed on all those different kinds of things. So yeah.

Oh, I love that. That's a really great. That's a really great tip. The other thing I wanted to ask you about was empathy. I think empathy plays a big role in what you do and your creativity. I would just love to hear you talk more about how that informs what you do.

Yes. You know, I've actually been spending a lot more time lately thinking about where does that come from? Like, why do I think so deeply about how, where someone, what kind of day somebody might be having, you know, before I share something or before I send out an email. I spent a lot of time in reflection just thinking about the possibilities of that. And I've really been unpacking, like, where does it come from? And I do, I do think a lot of it does come from my parents. So I had parents who were kind of like the small town preacher parents whose the door was always open and they would just invite people in and they were always making space for people. And little introvert me used to struggle with that in some ways because I was like, oh my goodness, like, who's here now? But in some ways, as a result, I can see that in a lot of different ways I'm doing the same thing. Like, I'm. I'm just saying I'm Just here to create a space. Because when you're creating. And for me, empathy is a lot about creating a space where someone, where someone feels free to come and you're able to engage and connect. And I think that the empathy organically happens through that. So in a way, empathy is like a process of creating space in which deeper empathy can be cultivated. Because I think if you just try to do like a 1, 2, 3 step empathy with someone, it's not really going to work because it takes time. Like, you don't. Even if, even if you just ask someone, like, so tell me your story. Well, you're just getting the version of the story that they share that, that, you know, you may not have walk away from that and think, oh, wow, I feel empathetically, you know, connected with that person. You may. But we need time and we need space with one another. And I'm really interested in how that can happen digitally and how that can happen virtually. Like, how can we just create more space where people feel free to just comp. So I guess in some ways I spend a lot of time on empathetic thinking. Like, how can I think about the whole thing from the perspective of I don't know what people might be going through, but I'm going to create a space with lots of different kinds of people in mind. I'm going to create a space thinking about different possibilities that someone may have experienced that day or that hour that may be coming into this space. And by space, I mean it could be an Instagram page. I think about that when it comes to Instagram, it is not just a post. When you post something, that post exists in between other people's posts and you have no idea what that person saw before scrolling to your. Their posts. And there's no way we can know everything, but there's nothing that stops us from just pausing and mindfully considering one or two or three different options. And that's something that I have baked into my process. And I. I really think about that. And I've really been unpacking why. And I think it's because I'm here today because of people who did that for me. Like, I'm here today because somebody thought, maybe we should offer this creative writing class at community college, or maybe we should offer this because maybe it'll get some students interested in art. It was my creative experiences at my community college that fundamentally gave me the courage to pursue this as an adult. Because by the time I got to college, I was so discouraged. And this is after having very Encouraging parents. I was so discouraged. I was so like, I can't do this. Like, I gotta give this up. And it was my community college professors that were like, no, you actually have something and here's what you can do with it. And you should keep pursuing art. You should keep on being curious. That was creating space that was empathetically thinking about somebody like me. It's like, this community college is not an art school. But let's make art classes here. Let's do that. It's not easy. Anyone who works in education knows how hard it can be to get art programs and creative things started in school settings. So I'm like, somebody somewhere had to think about that. They may have. I probably never even met the person who created that, who decided that. But then pausing and thinking about a possibility of someone like me, that's a part of why I'm here today. So that's how I think about empathy. Like, take the pressure off ourselves to like, be like, okay, I gotta figure out my empathy plan for the next hour. It's like, it's a lifelong practice that we can continue to cultivate and nurture and create.

So, yeah, I'm positive that everyone who interacts with an Instagram post or a piece of your work, they leave feeling seen. They leave feeling better than they did when they arrived. And that is something really, really special. I mean, it's incredible. Morgan, we are so excited to have you as one of our keynote speakers at Immersion Live. Coming up. Could you give us just like a teaser on what you're going to be talking about? Just a taste?

Yes. I am so excited about taking the pressure off yourself. Talking about taking the pressure off yourself to embrace your natural rhythms of creativity.

Yeah.

So I. I'm all, look, I'm always looking for these moments in my life, and I've become so passionate about sharing them with others. Of just when you realize, oh, wait a minute, there's like this whole set of things that come naturally to me and they're in my process, and how can I just bring those forth and continue to cultivate them? So it's a lot of, like, what I mentioned about me thinking about standing in Walmart, flipping through the posters. Like, I give, like, a lot of examples that things that you can look at. Instead of putting pressure on yourself to keep striving to create something out of nothing, it's like you've got something to work with. So let's cultivate that, let's nurture that, and let's watch that grow.

Okay, that's Amazing. And what would. Okay, so the conference is virtual. And we're working this year to really prepare people on how to attend a virtual conference and do it, like the right way. So what advice would you give someone who's gearing up to do a two day virtual conference so that they can really get the most out of it?

Oh, my goodness, I love this. Oh, I love this kind of question so much. This is right about Allie, because I love going to virtual stuff. So what I do is I take tons of screenshots and then I have Canva open on my computer and I'm dragging it into a whiteboard. So Canva has this whiteboard feature. And actually if you're on a MacBook, they have a free app called Freeform. There's other versions and there's Miro, some kind of whiteboard app. Take your screenshots, drop them in my row, add notes, add stickers, add colors, like, while it's fresh, while you're like, energetically being inspired. And the reason why I like that is because when you're on your computer, there's so many, like, boxes, you know, and you want to feel connected. You want to feel because you are connected with real people. So what I found is like even just taking your notes in this different kind of way and just dragging things, it creates, it creates that space of like, yeah, this is what's actually happening here. It's not just something on a screen. It's ideas are forming. Oh, I heard this at this talk. It's connected to that. I'm going to create a little section over here. Or this word keeps popping up and you just kind of give yourself a little bit more freedom. Because I do think that sometimes when you're looking at a screen, it can feel like, okay, what do I do with all of that? So you need to create that space. So get yourself a whiteboard. And certainly with my slides, screenshot away, like you can. You can take as many screenshots as you like. And yeah, it's kind of like a real time scrapbook of the moment, I guess you would say. I find that to be very enjoyable.

Yes. Oh, that's amazing. Okay, what else, Morgan? Tell everyone where they can find you if they're not already there. And is there anything that you have coming up that you want to share about?

Yes. So I share pretty regularly on social media. I share art and inspiring poetry and prose on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, all those kinds of places. And I have an app called Storyteller and I've been putting a lot of energy into that, adding new features. And I started working on this app five years ago and still growing. And I do like weekly series. So every Sunday a new seven day series starts. There's a word of the day, there's a journal prompt, there's an affirmation. You can highlight things, you can download wallpapers. It's like my, it's my passion project right now and I talk about it every day because I really am passionate about creating these spaces with the devices that we use every day. But it's just a little bit calming, a little bit encouraging and yeah, that's the Storyteller app.

I would say you're a lot of it calming and a lot of it encouraging. Thank you so much, Morgan Harper Nichols, for being here today. We can't wait to see more of you and we'll be adding all of your links and everything to the show notes for today's episode. So thank you so much for being here.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.