89: Fueling Your Creative Journey Featuring Nicholas Wilton

The natural byproduct of that chain reaction is creativity. And that's the secret to this whole game, you know?

I'm Bonnie Christine, and this is where all things creativity, design, business and marketing unite. I'm a mama living in a tiny town tucked right inside the Smoky Mountains, running a multi seven figure business, doing the most creative and impactful work of my life. But when I first set out to become an entrepreneur, I was struggling to make ends meet and wrestling with how to accomplish my biggest dream of becoming a fabric designer. Fast forward to today. I'm not only licensing my artwork all over the world, but also teaching others how to design their creative life and experience the same success. This. I'm here to help you spend your life doing something that lights you up. I'll help you build a creative business that also creates an impact, changes people's lives, gives you all of the freedom you want, and is wildly profitable. Welcome to the Professional Creative Podcast. Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Profound Creative. I'm here with a dear friend and I'm so excited to introduce him to you. Welcome, Nicholas Wilton.

Thanks.

How are you?

I'm good. I'm really excited to talk to you. It's just been. There's so many things happening and it's just an exciting time. So looking forward to this conversation.

So, Nick, I've invited Nicholas on. Do other people call you Nick or just me?

Lots of people call me Nick. Yeah.

So that.

That'll work.

Nicholas and I met several years ago. We are part of the same mastermind and we very naturally just fell in stride, you and I, Nicholas, because I think the way that we run our business, the way we prioritize things in our lives are so similar. And what so much about you is that you are equally a brilliant artist and equally a brilliant businessman. And you lead in the same way that I do, with full heart and full service for your audience. I also wanted to say, one reason we're having you on right now is because you are one of our keynote speakers coming up for Immersion Live. So we're super excited to have you alongside a stellar lineup. So. So you'll be our keynote speaker as well as join us for Open Studio night. And that one I'm really excited for, Nick because Nicholas is a fine artist. Your process is mesmerizing. It's messy, it's beautiful, and I can't wait to let everyone just dive into your world.

So fun. Yeah, I'm really excited. That's so good. I want two hours in the studio with you. Guys, but I'll take whatever you can give me.

Nicholas, just start us off by telling everyone about what you do. You do. And you've been a fine artist for many, many years. Your work speaks for itself, but you also educate. And the way that I. What I love about what you teach is it's about bringing really the fire back into creative process. Your business is called Art2Life. You have courses. I know you've done some incredible artwork for some books. Just give everyone an insight into what your world really looks like.

Yeah, okay. Well, so I've always been an artist, and figuring that out early on was hard. And I took a lot of notes to help myself just being an artist by myself in a studio. And I quickly discovered that I. It's hard to be by yourself all the time. So I started teaching these workshops as a way to get out of the studio. And I really only know one. I don't really good at one thing, which is making art. I've always done that. And it turned out that the. The way that I approached my art making, that other people could understand it, you know, when it's just in your head, but then when you write it down. And that began a process of teaching. And I started this process, you know, when I was 20 years old, and I worked in small groups for a decade, two decades, and. And gradually, over time, more and more people.

And

what was so cool about the way I approached it was I saw how quickly people could not only get comfortable making art, but they could make art. Most importantly, that was personal. That felt like them, which I know how hard that is to do. And I went to an amazing art school. And so that was. I knew what was happening. In seven days, I could take someone who was just sort of curious, and they could. They could get so excited and then they could go into art. But it also, it shifted something in people. It allowed them to start living more like an artist. And I ended up bringing this content online about seven or eight years ago. And because the workshops kept filling and I was going all over the country, you know, different places, teaching, and I brought this online and it kind of blew up. And we were able. I was able, through amazing help through Jeff Walker and different entrepreneurs, to teach online, to teach this content online. And it worked. And it's just been amazing because now we work with thousands of people, but really it's a process I'm teaching. It's called the Art2Life framework. And it's a combination of art making principles, but they're really life making Principles, and especially for you guys all listening, I know that you guys are creative, but there's also a lot of business in this. And the principles that I teach and talk about are helpful in life, they're helpful in business, and of course, in art as well. And that's what I'm interested in. And I'm interested in helping people discover their journey, their authenticity, because that's the secret sauce in all things is that it's gotta be about you and it's gotta be personal. And I mean, I think that's what, you know, your business and my business and why we connect so well is because this, our businesses are really personal and they're super authentic and just, you know, mission driven. And that really resonates for people. So that's sort of, you know, making powerful art is a result of looking within and really clarifying and discerning what it is that lights you up in your life. And that's kind of what we do, that's how we help people.

You know, the presentation that you're going to be covering at Immersion Live, you've told me, is kind of about how to keep the fire of creativity and entrepreneurship burning. And I love this so much because I feel like, for one, artists oftentimes struggle to tap into both sides of their brain, if you will, the creative side and then also the business and strategic side. And while that might be difficult to tap into, once you do tap into it, it means that you can make business creative, which is really, really fun. So could you just not, not tell us too much, but could you just kind of dip your toes into this, this thought about creativity and entrepreneurship and keeping that alive?

It's sort of an inside job is how I like to describe it. You know, entrepreneurship is a lot of, a lot of external thinking. We have audiences, we have technology, we have many, many things that we have to overcome. And it takes a lot of effort. But if you're clear, if you can. So you need a lot of juice, you need a lot of energy, you need a lot of fire, and, and cultivating that is not something that is sort of on the, on the list always. So how do we, how do we stay fired up about what we're creating, what we're making? You know, making a business is no different than making a painting or making a story or building a relationship. What is it that we, what do we want to make and how we make it and what's important to us? And so that's the inquiry that is so, so important. Because if you feel Alive. Right. So this is a basic art making principle that we, when we experience and involve ourselves in things that truly matter to us. So this isn't a, I can't help people build businesses or make art. That's to make money only. It really, truly has to be something that is meaningful, that really matters to you. Whatever it is, if that's what you're after, which I think is, is the success path, then I can start, then we can work. We can get you in a place where you feel energized, you feel alive. And that's the secret sauce to overcoming a lot of the things, the hard nights, the long hours, because you have this passion there and you're connected to it, you know, and, and sometimes, like, for example, if I'm working on, you know, sales pages all the time or I'm doing all the business part and I don't get to talk to the people that I'm actually impacting or sharing or making my art, I start to lose my momentum. So, so, you know, learning how to stay connected to what it is that lights you up, remembering that, remembering what the vision is of what you're chasing and making sure that vision is current, that you're not making a business because you think it's just a way to make money, but it's a business that really is yours, that you really, really care about. That's an important thing to figure out. You don't have to know it right away, but that's where we're heading.

I'm just curious, Nicholas, do you find yourself able to be creative and create art every day or do you have kind of this bit, you know, this is a business kind of day and this is an art making kind of day. Or do you intermingle them?

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. I run it all together. I run it all together. I'm, I'm making art. When I, I had this ugly color behind me and I put this color here because it goes better with the shape shirt. That's an art decision, you know, and I get more excited because I like this color. This is one of my favorite colors. You know, I'm so, I love that green behind you in the dark and you know, like, so it's all mixed together. I, I, the, the more that you can connect to that, like, I know I'm, I stay on top of it and I, and if I don't, you know, we all like, you go on a vacation or you, or a hard patch comes where you have to be really busy. You know, I remember when my mom was sick and. And you know, you kind of lose your way sometimes and that's going to happen. But when you can kind of have it, touch on it. Like, I do this by. I have a journal practice where I just do a dumb art thing pretty much every day. But that just reminds me what I'm doing. And it relates to how I do a team meeting. It relates to, you know, there's humility in trying something and it doesn't work. So it all kind of mixes together. It's all the principles. So I look at the principles of art making and the things of art making that apply to all the things we want to make from a video to how we want to talk about our offerings, how we want to show up in the world. It's all kind of based on the same kinds of things that optimize us, that make us feel excited. So, yeah, I don't separate it, really. I don't say, well, art making is different than a video thing. It's like, I love all this stuff. I just do all of it. And, and I have a lot of energy to do it all because it's all, it's all filling me, you know?

Okay, so for the people who are only listening, they're dying to know what color your wall is and what your favorite color is. So.

Yes.

How would describe this color?

This is. I would say it's passion flower red.

Yeah.

So I look at this color and I love talking about color because it's abstract and so. And it's just a feeling. Right. Everyone can look at this. And, and if I, you know, when, when I look at this color, I think of. There's a passion flower that grows at Esalen. It's one of the first places I taught on the Big Sur coast. And I have a. Just a huge part of my heart is there. It's where I learned how to be in the world. I found my way there. And I would walk every night from this art studio and there's this. It's still there. It's this overgrown patch of eucalyptus trees and it's covered in these flowers. And so this color to me feels like possibility, potential. It's juicy with that kind of ripeness of becoming. And so that's what I'm. That's like, that's what I think about when I see this color. And, and, and if I'm going to do an Excel spreadsheet and, and I can start changing colors on it or the way I organize things, I have to Find a way to make these things meaningful for me. And some things aren't. And. And I try to avoid them, but, you know, you can't do that all the time. But, you know, I try to stay where the juice, where the energy is. Right. And there's people on my team that are really energized about doing things that I'm not, you know, and so obviously, we can't do all the things, but how. How do you take a thing like an Excel spreadsheet and. And make it really a creative process? How can you do that? You know, it's like, that's cool. That's a cool way to approach problems, right?

Yeah, that's really cool. So I know that you have some principles. You've mentioned them to me a few times. I. Is there. Are there six? Is that right?

Well, we teach in. In. In our framework, we teach art making principles, things that you guys would all, you know, as surface designers, could relate to. Things like value and design and texture, risk and soul, which is a little bit of what we're talking about now. But there's also principles of mindset. And I thought that because we're talking about the mindset of how to stay inspired and fired up, there's truths and things that we can come back on, principles and ideas that. They're not rules, but they're ideas that we can use to apply to our own situation. So, for example, one of the. One of the things I teach, and, you know, probably for you guys listening, it's a. It's a. It's a. It's a hard one for a lot of people because a lot of people don't feel qualified or eligible to make art. And I know, I'm sure you struggle. You. You help people through this. And. And so I. Right out of the gate, I'm like, everyone, everyone is an artist already. This is what we teach. This is what I can prove. I've helped thousands and thousands of people. There isn't anybody unless, you know, they have to be interested, of course, but everybody can create a thing that is artistic, that's personal, and it's just whether they're interested or not. So we got to make sure that people feel that they can do that. Otherwise they're, you know, kind of over in the corner, scared. So that's an important idea that, you know. Of course. Right. And so I can hold that confidence. I can prove it. Like, that is. So if you can kind of get some relief there, even if your high school art teacher said you weren't Talented or whatever. There is no such thing as talent per se. It's just fire. It's just passion. It's just about you expressing what lights you up. And everyone has that. It's like saying some people, you know, some people can laugh and others can't, and it's like, ridiculous. No, it comes with the operating system. So we. Everyone has equal measure of creativity. And it's just some people are curious and want to learn about it. So that's. That's sort of one. That's obvious, but it has to be looked at the other way that I. The other thing I talk about, and I've touched upon it here a little bit, is this idea of feeling alive. And feeling alive comes about by involving yourself in whatever it is that it has energy for you. You know, it's like, Bonnie, I know you do like CrossFit, right? Like, that has juice for you or other people, it's horseback riding or other people, it's surface design or other people, it's books or. Or places or. This color has energy for me. That's why I, like, chose this color. Right? So. So understanding what brings you alive is really. Is like the first order of the day. Because when you feel this way, and this is the thing, they don't really. We don't talk about. You feel inspired, you make connections. It's the best way of being in the world. When you feel alive, it's like you want to be in the world in this way. It's the best version of you showing up. And when you're inspired, when you're making connections, you have this energy, this overflow of energy. It's the opposite of being bored, right? Bored is. I'm just going to order takeout. When you're inspired, you cook yourself something, or you invite a friend over, or you go for a walk or whatever it is that lights you up. And what happens when you have that energy from feeling more alive, you feel inspired. The byproduct of that, the natural byproduct of that chain reaction is creativity. And that's the secret to this whole game. But they don't. I don't teach that. Like, everyone's like, I don't know what to do. You know, it's like, I can't. How do I do my business? And all the things. It's creativity. It's all creativity. And it comes. It's so cool because you don't need an expensive website. You don't need a lot of these things. It's all stuff that you can cultivate in your life, in yourself. And that's. That's where it starts. So that's a really powerful principle that we use and talk about and. And by the way, for artists, and you guys are artists, we're all artists. And you guys make a thing. But especially for fine artists who I work with a lot, when you feel this way, you're more yourself, right? Like, that is. That is really. When you see your friend who's doing really well, that's what. That's the state they're in. When they make something in this way of being from this come from the art or the artifact that they create. Whatever it is, it feels like them. It's more like them. You make things like yourself, and that leads to another principle. But because this thing that you make is personal and different. Like your. Your whole world that you've created, Bonnie, and is really unique in the world. It's so personal. And that's the value. That's what people come for. They're like, wow, I'm not a Bonnie, but I can feel this. And I love what she's doing here. That creates value in the marketplace. That creates viral. Right. You see something that you have never experienced before because somebody has done something that is so personal and. And different and. And we're all walking around the world wanting to feel alive. And what makes us feel alive is things that we haven't experienced before, Right? Like, you know, when we see the things we share on Instagram, we start an art course or we go to a workshop or our birthday comes along. These. These things that are new and different is what we crave as human beings. Our soul loves this. We want to feel things in our life. And. And that's why that. That doesn't matter where you're from, by the way, or how much money you make or everything. Everyone wants to feel this aliveness. And it comes from this bigger idea of differences, putting things together that don't normally go together or experiencing new things. Right? Like, if you love horseback riding and you get to do it on Wednesdays, it's so great. But if you horseback rode every single day, pretty soon it would be routine. It would be kind of too much. So it's how you curate things and putting things together that are unexpected and differences. And so there's a whole curation that we get to create for ourselves, to optimize ourselves to feel this great way.

And.

And then what we make feels that way too. And that connects to other people, by the way.

Like, when I'm working on a Design. I love to put just one small thing in it that is an element of surprise. Like, this is so Bonnie. It's so predictable. And then one thing that someone is like, I did not see that coming. Did not see her putting a little whatever, like a color or a little, you know, motif. That's surprising. Mark your calendars for this, October 19th through the 21st. Because our annual conference for Creative Immersion Live is coming up. We've gathered a spectacular lineup of industry leaders, artists and entrepreneurs like Amy Porterfield, Morgan Harper, Nichols Glow Atonmo and Nicholas Wilton, plus many, many more for an unmatched virtual conference experience. Immersion Live this year is all about the art of business for the professional creative. Over three days, you'll unlock strategies to guide your business effectively, refine your designs and establish a flourishing creative career. And the best part is that you can experience it all from the comfort of your own home. We do a live virtual conference like nobody else. Sessions will allow for real time interaction, questions answered, and a sense of community that's honestly hard to match. Our event kicks off with Open studio night on October 19th, where you'll get to peek behind the curtain of some incredibly successful artists and designers. The next two days, you'll immerse yourself in keynote sessions and workshops where you'll learn, interact and have all your questions answered. Come engage with like minded creatives, make meaningful connections and open the doors to collaboration. We're also recording every session so you can revisit and absorb this wealth of knowledge at your own pace. Head on over to bonniecristine.com forward/2023 immersion live to join us. Nicholas, how do you talk to someone who is so far away from this they don't even know how to figure out what makes them feel alive?

Yeah, I love this. I love this question because you're closer than you think. Let me grab a couple things here. Like, so if I have two things, I have, you know, we're. I'm holding up you guys. For those you guys can't see it. I'm holding up a pair of scissors and I'm holding up a black Sharpie. And if I, if you were in my workshop or if you were in an audience, you could see this. And I'm. There's a pair of scissors and there's a black Sharpie. Bonnie, which do you prefer? Just like intuitively, which do you like?

I very much like the purple scissors.

Okay, okay. There is no right or wrong answer, but right there, everyone's going to have a different answer. It's intuitive you already know. You already come with discernment. So that's how you start, right? That's how you start. You have to start listening. So if I don't know what, what, what kind of like, let's say someone's wanting to go into pattern design or wanting to start a business or, or you. So you look out at the world and you start noticing things that resonate for you. You know, some people come to art making or creativity, they might have gone and, like, done a birthday. They, they. They found it because they, like, you know, frosting a cake and they're doing a thing for their kids. You know, like that resonates to somebody. Or, or maybe when you were a little kid, you had aquariums like I did, and you love tropical worlds and the fish and the colors. I mean, so you have to just. Everything, the clues are already there. They're already in what you've made. They're already in what you've kept. Go into your bedroom and look at the things that are hanging on your wall. Look at the things that you don't want to throw away. Look at the things that you've given to people that are like, well, what's the most meaningful thing that you've ever been given? You know, look at the places you travel. Look at the things that. Look at. Pay attention when you've cried, right? Like, that's. It's. It's following those tugs. It's following that deeper connection to you, to yourself. Right? Like, we see things. Look at what you follow on Instagram. You know, these are the. These things for whatever, this different for everyone, but that's where the clues are. So, yes, it looks like when someone's really far along, that they have that. How could we ever get there? But it just literally starts by, this is a yes or this is a no.

Yeah. You know, I really call that the art of seeing. Like, we see things all day long, and at some point in this journey, it's like scales fall from your eyes and you start seeing things for the first time. And everything is possibility and everything is beautiful and, you know, potential inspiration for your work. And that means that you can go anywhere and be inspired, even if that place on paper isn't inspiring.

Yes, yes. It becomes this. Life becomes this quest to. You're. You're like on a. On a treasure hunt, you know, what a cool way to go through the world.

What a cool way.

Yeah. Right? I mean, you are such the. You're. You're the poster child for this. I mean, collecting the things like looking in, behind you, you know, you, you curate constantly. I mean, you're, I mean, you, you do this so well, Bonnie. I mean, just how you, you know, how you describe your courses and the PDFs, and the clothing and, and your garden and what, how you shoot your videos. Like, it's all, all, it's all this discernment and that is really amazing because we all want to feel that. And you just, when you can show that to people, people love it. We love it because we're. None of us are you. And so we get to experience a new thing in your world, you know, so. Because that's not something, you know, like my background's like this color, but when I look at yours, it's like, God, I just want to like go poke around your studio and all the things.

Yeah, well, but I'd like to poke around your studio too and get messy with a bunch of paint. It would be awesome. Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I know you well enough to know that you have achieved such success in your life from so many different areas. Success in your business, success as an entrepreneur, success as an artist, success in your personal life and your health. Could you just give us some insight into some of the things that you do on a daily basis, habits or, or principles that you do on a daily basis that has led to your long term success? Because I know it's full of little things, little decisions that you make every day.

Yeah, it's, you know, there's, there's, there's risk. Right. Like we talk about, like understanding mistakes and there's, you know, I, I don't know what it is about me. Like the way you describe this, like, when I do mistakes, I really do them. And, and whether it's learning a new sport, like I, I learned kite surfing is something I've always wanted to do and I was learning and you know, and, and there's things that you don't want to do in that sport. They're like, you know, like really. And I had to do all of them, you know, like, so I, I really lean into those. They just seem to happen. I don't know. But I have a really great relationship with mistakes and, and art making teaches you this, teaches you that, that, you know, that you have to show up better and that when you give, give in and, and be real with, okay, I, this isn't very good, and then I give up something. Often there's something that's coming that's better and there's uncertainty in that. And to just be comfortable in Uncertainty, because that is the juicy time when something's going to come, right. Like, there's tremendous amount of faith in that. So it's just really my relationships, my relationship to mistakes, I would say, and knowing to increase the energy for me, I. I risk, I. I take chances. I'm like, I'm okay with that, you know, And I've seen what's happened. The, the biggest crashes for me have led to the biggest learning. And. And then, then whole new things come out of it.

I see that in you, Nicholas. Like, any mistake that, you know, not that I've even seen you make any, but I know that you've talked about some. And what makes it so different for me is that you use it very intentionally as a learning opportunity. I mean, you just really dig in. It's. It's almost like. It's just exciting how much you can learn from the mistakes you make. And that's something that we talk about. We. We have to learn how to manage and be comfortable with, because otherwise we're playing small. If we're playing big, we're going to make mistakes, and we've got to learn how to have a closeness to that because it's inevitable. And it's how you learn.

Yes. And the other thing about showing yourself, right, like, if. If we think the thing that we make is more valuable because it's more like us, the more of us that we can put in the thing, the more valuable it will be. And I'm not just saying all the good parts of us, but all the parts that are maybe a little shadowy or the vulnerability. So if I, If I'm making a painting, I'm really knowledgeable. Like, I'm. I'm really good at art making, but I'm also not sure a lot. And I make a lot of mistakes and I'm trying things and I'm kind of scared that it's not going to work out. That is a powerful thing, that vulnerability as a part of me, of Nick, that it's. It's. I got a lot of that. If I can show that too. It connects. It. It makes you a better leader, it makes you a better artist. It makes you more relatable. Because I'm no different than anybody else. You know, it's like I've just done a thing for longer. So it looks kind of like, wow, you know, you're really far along. But besides that, we're all just on this creative path, making things and learning as we go. And so I really think there's a tremendous value I Think the humility is just a really important part in business to be able to say to your team, I don't know what to do here, or I'm so embarrassed or I am out of my depth or help or. That's been a hard thing, a big thing for me to learn. I used to think I had to learn, do it all myself. And I used to white knuckle it, you know, now it's like, it's just about the learning more. And so I think that's a, that's a really powerful thing for creating anything because people, people can really, if they can relate to you, they'll, they'll, they'll see themselves in what you're doing. I think that's important.

That is really incredible. I, I just thought you were going to tell us about like a little morning routine, but embracing, embracing your mistakes. That's a big one.

Yeah.

And it's.

Yeah, it really is. It is. Yeah. Yeah.

What else? Anything else?

Let's see. So let's talk for a second here a cool thing that I think is a really great thing to bring into the conversation that we will be doing. We'll be talking more about this, you know, definitely in the studio thing, but the importance of play, you guys, because if we, you know, if what I was sharing resonates with you about when we're ourselves, we tend to make cool things because we're not like, worried about how it looks. We're not trying to copy somebody else. We're just being ourselves. You know, you can see that if you look at amazing speakers. You know, when Brene Brown gave that talk on vulnerability that, you know, we all saw, she was just this, you know, kind of school teacher, ish researcher, and she just did her thing and it was so powerful, it was so personal and so authentic. So when we, when we're that way, it really, really resonates. So remembering that when we play, we're not interested in an outcome. We're kind of making it up as we go. Think of kids in a kindergarten class and you know, okay, you be the airline pilot and I'll do this, and you're just doing what feels good. So how do we bring play into our business? How do we bring play into our life? Because when we can play, I know we've given up about when we were seven years old, but we need to double down on that now. We need more of that because when we're. That when we're playing, we're more ourselves. And that is a strategy, you know, for making Things. So I love that, right? Like, it's super fun to get a people, group of people together and be playful and experimental and iterate and, you

know, what kind of things do you do that you would consider to be play in your life?

I like to, in every piece of art I make, I, and I teach this. I have a time of, of play. I don't have an objective. I wander around. I just do things that feel good. That's kind of what my little journal that I, I, I work in. I just do stuff. And what's so crazy is when you just do stuff, you don't even have to have a plan. It actually really is relevant to, you know, the soul already knows what, what it wants you to become, who you want to be. But we're just, if we think all the time, it just shuts that down. So just being intuitive and just trying something for no reason whatsoever allows a new inner pilot light, a new guidance to step in. And that's actually tremendously wise. The inside of you, the deeper parts of you, the part underneath the surface, that's the body, the wisdom of the body, the heart, that, that is what we want to bring more into our world more and more and more and how something feels and how can, how we can connect to that. So play does that. It might just feel kind of frivolous, but we're making choices and they're, they seem intuitive. But then when you look back, it's like, wow, like, look at that thing I made back then. Look what I'm doing now. You know, so there's, it's fun to, there's a forecasting a little bit. When we play, it tends to get pretty good and it relates to what we're going to be making. Who are we becoming? How do we start and remember that what part of ourselves is under construction? That's a really great question, right? And it's a juicy one. And playing and does this feel more like me or does this. And that's a great. And that could just be done with art materials or that can be done so many ways. But that's the idea with play. It's us. It distills us down to who we actually are, the more authentic version of ourselves.

Play is really hard for me. I actually realized probably about two years ago that I am so maybe almost addicted to productivity. I love to be productive. I love to multitask. Like if I'm watching a movie, I'm also got my hands doing something like knitting or painting or something. And play very much felt Frivolous. It felt very much like un. Unproductive. And therefore I had all these feelings like guilt. And I don't even think I realized it until someone asked me what I did to play. And I actually couldn't. I couldn't come up with anything. And so a few years ago I like very intentionally added play back into my. Because it does fuel it. It's almost a. It's so productive. Actually. It's almost like equivalent with rest. Right. Like playing and resting is actually so productive because then we can. I. I just talked about this a little bit. Like we, we never need to be to. In a place where we're needing to rest from work, we need to work from a place of rest. And that in and of itself is so incredibly productive. So I don't know who, who's listening that feels like they, they have that, that play is nonsense. But it will revolutionize your creative process, your business, your mindset, your energy. It's amazing.

Yeah, yeah. And it allows the non thinking part of you, right. Like we use our frontal cortex to like figure out, you know, what can I do? And we're just like squinting and brain. But there's wisdom in the body. There's wisdom, more wisdom. Right. Like we're, we're, you know, we're. We're feeling beings that think. We're not thinking beings that happen to feel. We're mostly soft feeling things on the planet. We. That's important. And then when we play, when we take spaces between things, when we move towards things that just for whatever reason feel more of a. Yes. That fuels our, ourselves and it gives more and more clarity about the decisions about where we're going and what we're doing. The, the fastest way that I can help somebody change their art and like blow up in the art world is to connect them back to themselves. Right? And to connect them, you know, to have that connection and change the way they're thinking and feeling, then the work just takes off. It has nothing to do with like learning to paint new colors. I mean there's some of that. But the fast way is to shift the come from. And that's kind of what we're talking about. And that's really the talk that, you know, I'm interested. That's really what I teach, you know, how. Where it's the come from that makes it all possible.

You know, Nicholas, I just. I could listen to you all day. And the, the, the best thing is that everyone who feels the same way, they, they kind of can. Because Nick, you have Your own podcast as well. Can you tell everybody about your podcast and where everyone can, can find you?

Yeah, it's, it's called Art2Life. You know, Art2Life and you can go to Art2Life.com and click on podcast, but you can get it on, on any of Apple podcasts. And really it's interesting because the podcast is a just find your ways you go kind of project. A lot of what we were talking about today, this interview would fit just very nicely in the podcast, but it's really about all the ways and all the different kinds of people, thought leaders, artists, business people using principles, using art making ideas and how they're constructing their lives to feel amazing. And so it's really a real wide exploration. And so it's just a project that I love and we got great guests and so yeah, I'd love, love you guys to come and check it out.

Well, we're going to put that link and all of your links in the show notes for today's episode. Before we sign off, I would love to hear from you, like one piece of advice for people who are preparing to attend Immersion Live and hear you there on how to attend a virtual conference. Well, do you know what I mean by that? Like, we're educating some about just really how to attend, how to prepare, what kind of things to think about in advance. How to attend a virtual conference and do it, do it right.

Yeah, I just did one, so this is great. And I really did it well. I mean, I learned so, so much. So you want to create space, you guys, and, and you know, there's a theme here, you know, this Bonnie was talking about, you know, taking time off and playing. Like you have to create space for something new to come in, right? And a workshop. What Bonnie's giving all of you is this opportunity for new, for something new to come in. Life changing. I mean, this is a transformational experience she's putting together. I know what she's up to, but you have to understand that if you don't create a space, let some things go, push some things aside, create space for the new thing to come in. Because if you try to just like, I'll just grab a little bit of recording, be there live, show up, come early, stay late, you know, just really, you know, and, and, and take from it, you know, have your notebook there, but go through this process and, and capture the parts that speak to you, right? Like really discern what it is. Who, who's, who are you resonating with? You know, take, take those nuggets and stay on it and reflect on those notes, and then come the next day, you know, it's like. So that's. That's really what I would recommend. It's. It's a space thing. We don't often create space for something new to come because we don't know what is coming. But if you don't create space, then this amazing new thing can't come in. So that would. That's for sure. What. How I would approach it.

Yeah. I've done online conferences in both ways. And the other way. Distracted way or the replay, it's no good. It's sort of like, you know, my kids will watch a movie and I'll be doing. Doing stuff around the house, and they'll watch it three times, and then on the fourth time, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna sit down and I'll actually watch it. And it's amazing. And that's what we really have to do when we really attend something, and we give it the space that it deserves. It's. It's really impactful. Nicholas, thank you so much. Thank you for being here with us today, for imparting your wisdom. You're such an inspirational guy, and I'm so excited to share you with everyone.

Oh, I'm so excited. And I can't wait to see everyone again. And Bonnie, likewise. It's a privilege.

See you next time. By.