Nikhil Sai / CEO & Founder at Funneling Media — Headsmack: Conversations with Misfits

Hi everyone, this is Nikhil Sai and you're listening to the Head Smack Podcast. You are listening to conversations with misfits, mavericks, and trailblazers.

Hey, welcome to the Head Smack Podcast. My name is Paul Pobonle and I'm excited to have another misfit with me. I have Nikhil Sai with me and he has delivered over $500 million in verified results for his clients and has interviewed more than 100 millionaires on his podcast. And Nikhil Sai show. And he's also got all kinds of awards behind him. And I'll let him share that as he shares his origin story. But Nick, glad to have you on, man.

Yeah, thanks, Paul, for inviting me. And I'm excited to add value to the listeners today.

I'm looking forward to the conversation. Love, love your story. And I look forward to hearing more about it. Congratulations on those achievements. And so let me hear a little bit about your backstory. You've shared a little bit about it, but I want to kind of hear from you. You can go as far back as you want to, but just tell me a little bit about the origin story of Nick.

Sure. Okay. I'm originally born in India, and now my business resides in Dubai. And you can catch me in random countries anytime because my business is virtual now. And I do like the freedom of traveling a lot. And it's not that productive, to be transparent. but it's just what I enjoy doing as of now. And I speak at events, I go and meet people at different events and, you know, have great friends all over the world. So it's a fun, it's a fun place, uh, you know, and time to be in. Uh, but this wasn't like this when I started my journey back in the COVID time. I was a broke dropout kid, confused. I was doing my mechanical engineering. I just finished my diploma of mechanical engineering. So I was just about to repeat the same life for the next 3 years, and I was like so confused. I'm like, holy moly, like, this is not gonna work out. I'm not built for jobs. The good thing is I've got my hands on some self-education books, like Rich Dad Poor Dad, for example, was one of those books that gave me a different perspective. And I realized how gaining new insights can completely change how you view your world. So I've been ingrained with one common goal, because my mom is a teacher. So I was just drilled with this idea that if I get a government job, like if I just work for government, I get my salary on time, basically get drugged every month with that salary so that I don't have to have any dreams anymore and just settle down in life. That was my ultimate goal. But once I read this book and I realized that there is 4 levels, you know, like there's self-employment, there's employment, there's business, and investor. I realized like, holy moly, there's more to life. And then I've discovered more and more entrepreneur stories and realized like, holy smokes, like somebody can shoot up 3 rockets and fail and can still shoot up the 4th one and enter the space even without being a professional engineer. Like, what am I doing with my life? That was the question. The good thing is I've done an internship when I'm finishing my diploma, uh, at a place where I've hung out luckily with a lot of old folks These are people who are closer to their retirement in their 60s. They've had a secure job all their life and I've heard their stories and I've heard their regrets saying, hey, I've been basically getting the same amount of salary for my entire life. I've taken care of my kids and here I am just regretting my whole life. And I was like, I don't want to be this guy. I don't want to be like them. So I was like, we are already below poverty and we are not doing that good anyway. I literally have nothing to lose. Why not take the risk? Why not just—

Right, right, right.

So I discovered entrepreneurship, started a few things here and there, gained a lot of experience there. But then I jumped into digital marketing in 2020 when COVID hit. Russell Brunson started this whole movement called One Funnel Away Challenge. A lot of businesses in the US were shut down. They wanted to go online and ClickFunnels was empowering them to do that. And when there is a wave, you got to ride it. So I invested in mentors. I learned how to build a successful agency. To see in a very short period of time, we started gaining momentum. I was actually good at what I'm doing. This is one of the things most people forget about, which is you got to be very good at the craft and delivering results. My clients were making a lot of money with us, so we were being referred and we were getting a lot of business and we continued to deliver. And here we are 5 years down the line doing the same thing, making people more and more money and being successful at it. Wow.

Wow. That's an amazing story. So I want to backtrack just a little bit. And so, you know, you mentioned that you were a broke student, you know, pursuing these, these endeavors, you know, studying engineering is very different to entrepreneurship. Was there anybody in your life that kind of helped you enter into that, or was it simply the books that inspired you into that?

I mean, I'm basically smart-cutting myself into it. So for example, just like how you are interviewing me, I have basically created a podcast right? I saw the people who have this award behind me, the Golden Award, and that's the, that's the Oscar of marketing basically, right? Like in the ClickFunnels space. And I was like, holy moly, if I can make a million dollars in my lifetime, it will be life-changing. That's where I come from, right? And I was like, oh my God, these guys charge thousands of dollars for hourly consulting. Their courses are expensive. I cannot join. I had no money. So I was like, what is the other way around? Then I saw a Pakistani guy who interviews the people who have these awards. And I was like, wait a minute, I thought my brown skin couldn't attract these people. I thought my lack of ability to speak English— because my English was so bad back then, by the way, like my first sales call lasted 7 minutes because the guy left. He couldn't understand anything I was talking about. Oh wow. I don't understand anything you're talking about. Wish you luck. Goodbye. So like, that's how my first sales call went. So if somebody is doing your first sales call and if it's over 7 minutes, you can surpass me. You, you're doing better. The long story short, when I see somebody and they can achieve it, my mind goes like, if he can do it, so can I. So I started my podcast. It's— I had one theme that, hey, I just want you to share your journey and share me what worked for you. And I was asking a lot of technical questions. So after every podcast, I used to write down what are the 3 things they've done right, what are the 3 things they've done wrong, so I can avoid those those 3 which were wrong and can double down on the 3 that were actually working for you. I've done that with 100 people in the first 2 years, and I've made millions of dollars with that same playbook. Literally, it's just the work that needs doing. And I've invested in mentors, coaching, made a lot of money, lost a lot of money, whatnot. But I think the playbook is simple. It's just hard work that needs to be done. Just need to confront it, write it down, and just do it.

Yeah, yeah. So as you started interviewing these people, you know, with you being overseas, with you not having a experience. How did you get them to want to give you their attention and give you their time?

Yeah, that's a pretty smart question. Thanks for asking. I've made a very clear vision for what I'm trying to build. I'm not trying to be Joe Rogan. I'm not trying to be the number one big podcaster in the world. My goal was very clear. Hey, I have a small ClickFunnels entrepreneur following me. You are a ClickFunnels entrepreneur. You are seen as an idol because you have one of these awards. I would love to share your million-dollar journey on my podcast. It's going to be a bunch of technical questions so you can add value to the people who are listening, including myself. Would you be opposed to spend 30 minutes on a virtual podcast? So it's a very soft commitment, not a hard sell. I don't have anything to promote to them, and all everyone would like to, at least from my perspective, they want to share, they want to give back, they want to transfer their learnings. So they were like, sure, you know, I mean, why not? Yeah. And the good thing is the first one is the hardest. Once you get the first one, then you show it like, hey, I got one guy who got this award, you have one of those, can you jump on? So it became like a community, it became like a movement for it. Yeah. When I went to America for the first time to this event, I've had several hundred friends, the, the best quality people they all know me because they all are these award winners who've been on my podcast. So it really creates that ripple effect overall. So yeah, the first one was the toughest. It just needs— again, you need to do volume. I've heard the stats, like the top 1% podcasts don't even publish over 20 episodes, like, in a lifetime. So if you want to be top 1%, all you have to do is 20 episodes. If you just push yourself through that, you could just create momentum. So that's what I've done. The first one was the toughest. So I built a relationship, I built, you know, like a long-lasting connection with them. And we're still good friends with my first podcast guest. And when I was in America, you know, like we had pretty fun. We went to a bunch of events, we worked on a lot of projects together. That's what people miss on. I never monetized the podcast in a linear way. Like I'm not getting sponsors, I'm not trying to sell them. But these connections created partnerships, JV partnerships, service partnerships. They paid me a lot of money for my consulting. I became their client and learned a lot and made a lot of money. So it works in an inverse manner. So that's kind of how I got my first client and first interview as well.

That's amazing. What a great story and what a great inspiration for people that, you know, might not know what the next steps are. I think what you shared there is a great way to start creating these relationships with the people that you want to be like, you know, and going into that. So how many podcasts in were you before you started implementing and starting to see success?

So that's one of the things with me. I don't wait for this thing to happen to do that. I'm more like to get this results. For example, let's reverse engineer how a client actually makes a buying decision. If I want to sell, because back in the day that's what we were doing, a funnel building service, so-called, I have to be in the place where people are actively talking about it. So I was looking into these groups where there were groups about One Funnel Away Challenge. So they were just trying to build one funnel to take their business online. This is back in 2020, and the same principles will apply even right now, 2025 and beyond. Find communities where people are actively talking about building the solution that you can build, and then just go and showcase your expertise. So I went in there I've added a lot of value. I've shared my views and experiences on how funnels could be done better. There was no ChatGPT back then, so you really have to be good at the skill to be able to advise and make sure, right? With a lot of direct response marketing books, I've educated myself on digital marketing, funnel conversions, copywriting, offer creation, read all the Dotcom Secrets, Expert Secrets, Traffic Secrets books. Like, I was just going through a lot of self-education. Whatever I've learned, I've just shared those views in the communities. And people used to respond like, Nick, you sound smart. Then my Facebook banner used to say, if you would like a done-for-you funnel built for your business, contact me. And everybody used to message me saying, yes, I would like you to build me my funnel. So that's my lead generation strategy. I've spent $0 on marketing. I made millions of dollars with that strategy. They just talk to me, and then all I have to do is take a consultative approach saying, what kind of funnel you want? Okay, I can build this in this much time. I don't like selling cheap products at lower price. I'm a big believer of charging the highest price possible and delivering the best results. Yeah, many people start off with like charging nothing in the upfront and, you know, for exchange of case studies. I think that's a good way to build portfolio, but that's what I was doing to get this initial momentum. And, uh, it still works. People can still do that. That's the crazy part. You just have to do the work. It just takes a lot of time and effort, and you really have to be good at what you're doing. So yeah, learning that skills would be good and then showcasing it will absolutely crush it and no other marketing strategy is better than that in my opinion.

Wow. And so what was your first project like? You know, because you're going into this pretty fresh, you know, you're entering into this community, into this funnel building way of doing things. What was your first project like?

So you just attract what you're talking about. So I have had a little experience before I did this funnel agency. I've had a small scale affiliate marketing business. That's one of the things people mistake. I've done several businesses that got me little, little smaller skill sets that stacked up to be a bigger skill set. So when I was about to launch my agency, I've already gone through the pain of building and failing small businesses, but I've learned a lot. So we don't have to discount that. So I was talking about how I built an ebook funnel that got me several hundred customers for an affiliate product for weight loss. And when I posted that story, one guy was like, can you build an ebook funnel for me? So I was like, cool. And he paid me, I think, a couple hundred bucks to build that. But then my pricing jumped down to $500, then $800, $1,200, $1,500, $3,000, $5,000, $10,000, $20,000, $30,000. Now we have done 6-figure projects multiple, multiple times. So like it just compounds. And again, you got to deliver results. Once they actually build that funnel, you give suggestions on how they can make money out of it. So they go and tell more people about you that you made them a funnel, they made money with it. That's all matters. If you look at our results page, it's hundreds of people just screaming, saying, hey, I've made money with Nick because that's what people want. They just want to see that if somebody can deliver, because everybody can promise, it's hard to deliver. The only reason we are successful is we deliver what we promise.

So with, with the, um, you know, with you starting in, in, in the middle of COVID in 2020, you know, now we're in 2025. How do you see that, um, funnel building has changed? Has it evolved at all? Uh, you know, because, you know, in, in 2020 it was a very different time for everybody. And so the things that worked then, you know, I, I would imagine that they don't work the same now. How have you seen things change?

Yeah, there's a lot changing, actually speaking. Earlier it used to be a skill of technique that only few people can actually do. There were maybe a dozen people in the world I would compare myself, you know, in my company skill set with. But right now it's commoditized, especially with AI. And now ChatGPT can write the best copy in the world, arguably. Again, not trying to mess with copywriters here, but then it can write really, really good copy. I mean, as a person who have funnel hacked thousands, if not tens of thousands of websites and funnels, I know it's doing a decent job. And so building a funnel is a technical skill set, but now it's commoditized. Like you could go into Lovable, you could go into like any type of website building platform and it's called wipe coding. And now it's— there's a new term called wipe marketing. You just tell the agent what needs to be done and it does it for you. So you can ask it to build a website and funnel, it will basically build it for you. It's not the same anymore. And many people who used to sell services, they're struggling right now. And I'm seeing this because the small business owner can just type and build a website. They don't need an agency anymore. But here is what you're missing. Nobody will never say no to more money. So instead of selling services, if you sell outcomes to people, people still buy. So if I go into a business who is already generating $6 million a year in revenue, but I spot few issues that could be adding additional $700,000 a year, they will be willing to pay $100,000 for that project. People always put efficiency, speed, and outcomes. So if you sell those three things, you cannot lose. But if you sell the other way around, meaning, oh, I'm good at website designing, I'll build the best website in the world. No one cares. It's a commodity. Like, AI can build websites. So I believe it's changed a lot, and it is going to continue to change. Why? Marketing is going to take over, and people like business owners can just talk to AI and it will build a marketing campaign. So you got to be smart in not just delivering a service, but you need to evolve your services into a situation where you are delivering outcomes, and that's what you're promoting as a business as well. And that's when I believe You can use AI and amplify your business. You can't go against it, transparently speaking.

Wow, that's so good. That's so good. A lot of head smacks there for somebody listening about what's going to help them go to the next level, especially if they're a service provider and how to evolve and not become extinct. And so, as you've created, as we shared in the beginning, you know, you've had half a billion dollars in results for clients. You know, what are some of the things that you've found, you know, outcomes, you know, that generate these outcomes? What are some of the things that you've seen that people are doing wrong? And how are you fixing that? Or how are you making that better?

Sure. I love that question. There are two parts to this question. One, I can answer it from the perspective of an agency going into a business and making the business successful. The other is actually looking at the business perspective and fixing what's happening at the business level to make them grow. I try to take the two-part approach. So starting with, I like working with winners. I only have limited amount of time. That's just the truth. That's the biggest asset I have, and I choose to spend it with smart people. Like, I'm very like I just cannot deal with like dumb people. That's just not my thing. I cannot deal with people who are not competent, people who don't take their life and business seriously. So people who do take their businesses seriously have already built successful businesses. That's the good thing about the life and the world. So I like to go to winners and have a conversation with them saying, hey, you're already winning, but this, this is the opportunity. There's a lot which is being lost on the table. Can I help you fix it? And guess what winners are going to do? They always say yes for opportunities which can increase their revenue, their profits, and help them hit their business goals. The other way around, most agencies try to like try to go after like every solopreneur. Hey, I'm passionate about helping solopreneurs who don't have a business and help them generate leads. What are you talking about? They don't have a business. They don't, they don't need no leads. Even if you generate leads, they don't know sales. Even if they know sales, they don't have a product. Even if they can deliver, they can't ask for referrals and they can't retain. So what? Like, they don't even take their life seriously. Like, why are you trying to help them? That's why most businesses are struggling, because they are trying to serve anybody and everybody who has a breath and a credit card. I'm the opposite. I have a qualification criteria. Like, this guy needs to be making $1 million a year, he needs to have $300,000 a year marketing budget, and he needs to have a product that is scalable, and he needs to have a good reputation. He cannot mess with his client success. Like, I only work with good businesses. So I, like, all of this checkbox makes sense. Only then I'm talking to them. So what do I have? I have freedom of time. So I'm not just anxious about getting clients because I exactly know who I want to serve. I either attract or I chill. I'm not stressed anymore because I'm not trying to make every nickel and dime online. So that's the first piece of it. Then the next piece of it for the businesses who actually want to grow, if you're a solopreneur or entrepreneur listening to this podcast, you need to get clear on who you're serving. Just like how I mentioned from an agency perspective how I am clear about who I am serving so I know that I can deliver the best success, you need to know that who is the best client. A small exercise for anybody listening You might be assuming, this is again emotion speaking, oh, my best clients could be this guy, that guy. You just get emotional. Sit down, go into your merchant processor, take out your last 5 years history of business, see your top customers and see what industries they are coming from, what type of traffic source they came from. Is it organic, networking events, paid ads, cold email? Think about that for a second. Just map out who's been the best client Who took the least amount of time, made you the most amount of profit, the easiest to work with, gave you the most amount of referrals. That's it, those 4 things. If you track that down, you know who's your best client and then just strictly say no to everybody else. Yeah, somebody came to you, they're trying to pay you, have the discipline to say maybe, but this is my client. Like I work best with these people and that's my marketing, that's what my website says, that's what my social media says. That's who I'm making content for. That's who I send emails to. That is the only type of events I go to. Then your life becomes 99% easier because you're playing on easy mode. You're going after one client who's the easiest to work with, makes the most amount of money, gets you the most amount of referrals, and he's a big fan of you. Double down and see the difference. No more fulfillment issues because you productize your services. Everybody needs the same solution. You just have to replicate it. You don't have to recreate your solution overnight every time you get a new client, and it just becomes life is on easy mode from there. So just if you're a business owner, that's the clarity you need to get. For example, one of our clients we have done a lot of revenue with, which has got clear that they work best with tax professionals, you know, who are actually having clients that are worth at least $5 million and above. So once you get a clarity, your marketing shifts. Your message, right? It directly hits on the nail, right? The head in the nail, right? Sorry, the nail in there on the head. Yeah, exactly. So that's what you need to find, like one offer, you know, and one client. And every niche can make $1 million. Every niche, every product, every service. Here's what the caveat is: don't try to catch two rabbits at a time because you will end up catching none. But if you try to catch the one, like, and if you just really try hard enough and you're not giving up, you'll get it. Like the rabbit will give up. Like, you know, if you're just running after it, it's got to stop somewhere, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That is so good. So much richness in there. And so when did this decision to only serve clients who have made a million a year? Because I think that's a really good way to look at businesses is proven product, proven success helps you go to the next level. But you probably didn't start there. You know, I'm sure you helped others and then realized that you were helping people that hadn't proven the product in the marketplace, right?

Correct. Yeah, I love that question. And it's literally just following the same exercise I've just mentioned. What do I mean by that? When I came into funnel building as a service, there were thousands of agencies who started at the same time. And guess maybe 1% of them made it to $1 million. And maybe 1/10 of them are still actively doing it. So focus is key here. You got to be very focused on what problem you're trying to solve. And right now we are more of a marketing partner who can scale companies. Uh, now coming back to your original question, I have delivered all types of services. I've built e-com funnels, course funnels, challenge funnels, webinar funnel, call booking funnels, ebook funnels, lead gen funnels, like every funnel in the world we have built it. But then I've realized who's been making the most amount of money and who is having the highest amount of success. Oh, it's the people who are building application funnels. Why? Because when you get on a phone call, you can easily close them for a higher ticket. So hence they can spend more money on ads. And funnel without ads is just a dead page. Like nobody's looking at it, just waste of money to build it and whatnot. So I was like, okay, that's the area I can shine. Then I've only built application funnels, like call booking funnels. Then I built it for several niches. I built it for real estate agents, I built it for real estate investment firms, I built it for weight loss companies, I built it for coaching programs, service providers, different consulting firms, cybersecurity, whatnot. Wide range of businesses. Then I was like, hmm, who's making the most money, the happiest, referring you, referring me more clients, and can I can easily fulfill? It's a productized solution. Then it came down to instead of just going after everybody, if we just focus on syndication firms, real estate firms that are trying to raise money, that would be a good fit because they are the easiest. I can just build one funnel over and over and over. I don't have to recreate anything. It takes me a couple of hours to customize it with my team support. I'm like, that's the marketing, that's the person I can go after. And again, my thing is I have limited amount of time. I'm only going to stay on this planet for some time. So I'm super time conscious on like, I have this limited time, how can I make the most and keep my client the most happy? Right. So it came down to people who have bigger pockets and can spend large marketing budgets. So it was syndication folks. We just doubled down on that. So you have to serve a bunch of people. So who is serving you well back and double down on them, if you ask me in simple terms. And that's just an exercise. But here's the thing, the discipline of saying no is where it starts. You, you got like, there's gonna be this guy who comes with a $10,000 check and says, can you just build me one e-commerce funnel? No, I don't. That's the discipline. The willingness to say no here is what is going to get a lot more yeses in the type of clients you want to attract. Because once you get this e-commerce client who is not in your playbook of fulfillment, who is not the best zone of expertise, he takes 10 times more effort to fulfill and won't get the result and will be pissed off. So you're now dealing with all your headache. But if you use the same time, you would have got 5 more clients who would have paid you $30K each. That would have been a $150,000 value of your time, but you just wasted it with some guy because you're desperate for money. So you got to be playing your cards right, you know, when you're picking your client. I mean, the quality of the client you pick will define the quality of your life. Wow. That's true for your partner typically, but I believe as an agency, as a service provider, it's true for your business as well. So that's the mantra I've been following.

That is so amazing. And so you had mentioned several different types of funnels. You mentioned the application funnel was one that really worked. Just to clarify on what an application funnel is. Funnel is. It's basically, I mean, I'll let you explain it. What is the application funnel for those that might not have heard that phrase before?

So when you look at the marketing pros out there, the most people who teach you marketing, they teach you the concept of value ladders, having front-end offers, upsells, downsells, mid-ticket, then high-ticket, then your ultra-high-ticket, all of this, right? I like what I call an inversion funnel. The funnel is usually like this, right? Like you have the top of the funnel in the top, you get attract a lot of people. Then the bottom of the funnel is where you have your high-paying clients. The problem is advertising is expensive. Like when you spend money on ads, you will realize this. And the reality is 90% of businesses don't even advertise, which boggles my mind. I'm like, why in the world? Like, why am I living? Like, I don't get it. So if you're active, you're running a business, just tell people that you are actually existing and you actually help. Anyway, not distracting myself, but the goal is people teach this top of the funnel, bottom of the funnel, get high-paying clients. I like the inversion funnel. You need to attract the highest-paying client possible first. Advertising is expensive. Let's say if you have a $10,000 marketing budget and you're spending it on your free ebook funnel, for example, you might get a couple hundred leads, but they are all free leads and they might not be qualified. They are not exactly the type of person you want to work with. So you just spent $10,000, you got a bunch of emails, but nobody paid you $10,000 back. So guess what? You cannot do this again. On the opposite direction, if you have a $10,000 service and you have a $10,000 marketing budget, but you use the inversion funnel, you attract the best client possible, you spend all that $10,000 into attracting the best person, meaning your marketing literally says, hey, million-dollar business owner, would you like to make an additional $100,000 profit? I can help you using my inversion funnel mechanism. Come, I'll map out how we can implement this into your business in next 30 minutes. It's a live call with you and me. Why would you talk to me? I've done half a billion for my clients. Here is my credibility, and this is a no-BS implementation strategy call. I'll walk you through, I'll give you the game plan. You can decide if you'd like to do this by yourself or do it with me. No obligations. Now, everybody else who is not a million-dollar business owner who don't want to make an extra $100K, they won't listen to that pitch.

Right, right.

Actually wants will listen to that pitch. So the inversion funnel where you laser target your client pain points and you target and you ideally want to talk about their niche, their revenue, their pain points and what you exactly solve with, attract them. Now I don't have much risk because if I— in, in advertising you pay for CPMs, you basically show, you pay for showing your ad to people. Why do you want to show ad to everybody in the world? It's the most expensive thing to do and you don't get your customers back. But if you show it to the most qualified clients, so Facebook will try to show that ad, any of the ad platform, by the way, not just Facebook, will show it to the client you are trying to attract in your ad. So the right client will come in. $10,000 worth of advertising spend can get you hundreds of thousands of views. Okay. And if possible, if you've done it right, 500+ clicks. So if you get 500 clicks, 20% of them convert into leads, 100 leads. And if you work those leads from 100 leads, even if you close one $10,000 customer, you just made your money back. So the conversion funnel gives you the most predictable revenue source, you know, to get your advertising budget back. This funnel, you lose money. This funnel, you make money first, then you use that money to continuously advertise. And the best part is you can always downsell people. So if I get 100 leads, maybe the 3 of them will pay me $10K. So I made— I spent $10K, I made $30K back. Then the 97 leads, I can still, as per the inversion funnel, downsell them into my mid-ticket program, sell them my low-ticket coaching, like whatever other offers I have, I can always downsell them. But guess what? If I get a free lead for $15, I can't ask him to pay for my $10K program on an email. That just doesn't— like, people just don't buy like that. So that's one of the reasons why I use application funnels. There is again a little more nuance to it. We use a lot of AI hybrid application funnels, a lot of retargeting. People are a little skeptical at the moment. They don't just jump on a phone call and buy on the first call, but there is still techniques and systems and ways to do that. And that's what I call the sold— sorry, cold to sold playbook, how you can convert a cold prospect who never know you into a multi-five-figure paying client in a short amount of time. They make decisions through data. So you need to create that data pattern and walk them through each of the steps before they make a buying decision and jump on a call. So you have the least friction on the call. You're just taking orders. That's the goal.

Yeah, man, that is so good. And so when we're talking about the evolution of even your business and creating funnels and helping people scale and all of that, was there a particular thing that took you to your first million or was it pretty broad in what took you to that first million? What was that path like? Because it's a pretty amazing path within, you know, 5 years going from a broke student to, you know, multimillionaire. So I'm very fascinated by what that path to the first million looked like.

Sure. So I made my first million dollars, I think in the first 2 years. So like in less than 24 months, being a brown kid dropout, like English is my third language. I have accent problems. I have self-confidence issues. I'm coming from a third world country. So many mindset beliefs like I have to overcome. Regardless, I made, you know, a million bucks in the first 2 years and many more millions after that. So long story short, the biggest contributor was my pricing. People misprice themselves a lot. They are trying to be competitive with pricing. They want to sell commoditized solution at a cheaper price. And the reality is there is no advantage of being the second cheapest guy on the block. They will just go to the first cheapest guy, right? And there is always some Bangladeshi guy— again, nothing against Bangladesh— but like, there is always lower economy countries who can afford to deliver the same service at a lower price. So I realized I can't play the price game. I don't want to be the cheapest guy and then you're just dealing with a bunch of bad clients. I don't want that. I want to be the opposite side. And I like the Ferrari method. That's what I call it. You position your solution as a Ferrari solution. It's a premium custom solution according to somebody's problem they're trying to solve that actually delivers an outcome as a brand. That's the difference. You're not an agency, you're not a service provider, you're not a commodity. And yes, you can, you know, put a chassis and put four wheels, but that doesn't become Ferrari. If you want to buy a Ferrari, you have to go to the Ferrari shop and you have to be qualified. They will qualify you and they will only They will, they will not even let you buy. Like, first of all, you, you got to be in a waiting list, you got to put a deposit, you got to wait. That's the type of experience I like to create. And, uh, I'll give you a quick story so you get some context. So I was this kid selling funnels for $1,500 and just living the best time of my life as a 19-year-old guy making $1,500 in India per client. And if I get 10 of them, that's making $15,000 in first few months of my business, I'm like, I'm like the king. Like, in a— right, right. $10,000 takes you so far. Like, even if you're living in LA, like, you can have a decent lifestyle. But imagine living in India and making that kind of money.

What was the average salary then?

Like, my average friend is broke or in jail or died. But anyway, the average salary in India is like $300 a month or something. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So like think about that, like the, the income level, like it's just God level, you know, uh, type of— so I was like, I was just in this bubble in my own mind saying I'm the king, I just figured it out, like guess what, like I'm rich. But, but here's the thing, you— if you change your circle, you get real perspectives. So I was just comparing myself to the people I was hanging out with because I was just in the first few months of my business. But then I was like, I need to take it to the next level, let me talk to people who are actually doing it. Then I've got a bunch of mentors in the 8-figure level Then I'm flexing how I'm charging $1,500 per client and how I'm getting dozens of them every month and making $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 a month. Then they were like, Nick, what kind of results are your clients getting? And I've shown them like, here's how much money they're making. Nick, what are you doing for them? Like, what exactly is your service? Then I've walked them through my service, what I'm all doing. Then I clearly remember one of my mentors was like, Nick, if you do the same thing We charge $50,000, by the way.

Then I was like, wow, what?

You charge 33 times more for the same thing I'm doing? I'm thinking, I'm— I think I'm cooking. Like, I, I thought I'm making $1,500. Like, this is insane. But you do the same thing but you charge $50,000? And here's the good thing: when you invest in right mentors— again, there's a lot of bad apples, you know, there's a lot of people who pretend to be doing the thing who don't have real jam. There's right people who are doing it and who know their, you know, stuff.

Right, right.

He really put me against the wall. He said, Nick, show me your calendar. What's the next appointment you have? Okay, you got John Thursday, you know, 2 PM Eastern. This is what you're going to do. You're going to quote him $15K. I was like, what? What? No, no way. Like, wow, I don't think so. But here's a good thing with mentors. He just hold me accountable. Here's the new way. You're not going to go after the, you know, the easiest Indian guy and the price-friendly. No, you're going to go the opposite. You're going to lead with value and results. And here is how you pitch, and you're pitching for $15K. And here's the caveat: I just paid for this expensive mastermind, and he was like, if you don't do this, I'm gonna kick you out. Oh wow, holy moly! This is what accountability is. Now you're like getting punched in the face if you don't do it. So I had no other option. I have to record the call, I have to pitch $15K. And guess what? I've done— this is one thing with me, I just shut my brain, I put it in the freezer. When I know the winning playbook, I just do it. I don't question it. As long as I'm learning from the right person, I just follow the playbook. So I put my brain in the freezer, I just followed what my mentor said. And, uh, in the end of the sales call, he was like, Nick, how much do you charge? I was like, uh, we charge $15,000. And the other guy goes, okay. I was like, what?

Wow.

And I was like, I was happy, but I was scared at the same time. So yeah, because it was, you know, the biggest deal. So this was back in 2020, by the way. We have done way bigger deals, like, you know, after that. Right, right. Like, once that code cracked down, now my mind goes, holy smokes, I'm just 200 clients away to make $3 million. Think about that. I just closed 200 clients at $15K pop. I'm making $3 million. And again, if you make $3 million right in your business and you're smart enough, you're good. Like if you do it right. So that just changed. That's the perspective I got. And from there it just snowballed and, you know, it's partnerships and being legit and like delivering real results and being available for your clients and staying focused on your zone of expertise. That's what kept snowballing over a period of time.

Wow, that is so amazing. What a great story. And so, you know, as you've been, you know, building, you know, all these funnels, and like we mentioned, you've made half a billion for your clients and you've made multiple millions yourself. There are some people that even when you use the language of funnels, for them, they still don't know exactly what those are. You know, they know what a website is. They might even know what a landing page is. But what are the funnels? Funnels. Explain briefly what a funnel is, and then also if you could share what are the funnels that you're finding now since you've built so many that are working best out there. Because we've heard, you know, challenges, we've heard, you know, webinars, you know, like for you, somebody that's down in the dirt doing this stuff, what have you found working and what are funnels?

Sure, that's an interesting question. So there's no one funnel fits all type of situation depending on the business and the requirement and the type of clients you're trying to attract. The funnel funnel needs to change. And we kind of follow a small process called funnel hacking. This is what Russell Brunson has pioneered. That's one of his strategies. So it's just like finding the winners in your market and just modeling it. Like if I would have to figure out everything from scratch, I would never make the amount of money I made by myself. All I have to do is shut my brain off, follow the winning playbook. So if I find a client, All I have to do is find the top competitors, see what funnels they're using, and just rebuild them in a better manner, in an effective manner. So coming back, that's kind of how I do it. So to find the best funnels that are working for your niche. So I can't just make a suggestion that, hey, this funnel works the best for your niche because I don't know. You got to figure out who is your top competitors, what type of lead gen, what type of funnels they are using, and model that playbook. And don't feel ashamed of copying something that's working. Why would you— like, you just use— you wake up and you use a toothbrush. You don't try to invent it every day. Like, something is working, just copy it. Like, there is nothing to be ashamed about. And this is a capitalistic world. You got to build solutions fast and you provide a lot of value, and that's the winning playbook. So don't try to invent. I don't try to be creative as much. Uh, every time you try to be creative, you're adding a lot of guessing variable if it will be successful or not. I don't like that variable because to test anything, it costs a lot of money. So I like to put my brain in the freezer and follow the playbook. Now, the second part of the question is, what is a funnel? A funnel is simply the most effective and systematic way you can convert somebody who don't know you into a high-paying client and retain them. That's what it is. So it's a journey for your customer to go from Hey, I don't know if any, even if I want this to discovering the pain, right? And then finding your business, getting interested in it, trying to apply to work with you and buying from you and then becoming successful with it and then retaining and referring you. That's basically a funnel. Now with the typical websites, you just give a lot of call to action. You have jammy information. Guess what? We are already scrolling 15-second TikTok videos, 50 of them every minute. So we have that shortest attention span possible, right? So if you give too much information, people will be confused and they will not buy. And when you're spending money on ads, which is how most businesses are successful— you select, you look at the biggest business in the world, exception Elon Musk, Tesla, keep that aside— but most businesses who actually make a lot of money, they spend a lot on advertising. That's the play. So if you want to spend for ads, but if you don't make your money back, Guess what? You can't run your business. So you have to make a marketing funnel that can give you your ad dollars back. So if you spend $10,000, you need to make $15,000 back so you can keep doing that at a million-dollar budget, $10 million budget, $100 million budget. For that to crack down, you got to build a funnel. And funnel is not a software or a website or a landing page or a funnel step. It's more like the concept, the journey of a customer. That's what you need to create. It doesn't have to be a tool or, you know, or a specific type. It's not the name, it's the journey. If you build the best journey, most frictionless experience without confusing them, give one call to action at a time, the right one will come through, the bad one will go off. That's all you need to do.

I like that. And so you mentioned one call to action at a time. What are some of the other elements that you found in a funnel for whatever industry that actually work best? Because, you know, you've had the opportunity to test a lot against, you know, winners and losers and ones that work for people, ones that don't work. What is the structure or the format for that journey that you found works best?

Sure. So it's— I would like to make it interesting. It's not the structure of the page. And I know people obsess about that, like, oh, should I put like a box or a circle or like 3 sections or 2 sections? Nobody will stop buying or opting in because there is 2 sections instead of 3.

Like, right, right.

That's not how people make buying decisions. But what people do make buying decisions, especially cold traffic, is the offer and the promise of your headline. Like 80% of our effort needs to go into headline testing. Like what? How would my market describe their pain? How would they say it? Not how you want to say it, because every time a business owner comes in, he puts his agenda into the marketing campaign.

Right, right.

We are the number one, yada yada. Who cares? Nobody has time for you, you know, to yell about your business. But if you say, hey, if you're struggling with bugs all over your home, like, I can help you fix this in 30 minutes or we refund you, like something like that could get their attention, you know, like, so you need to think about how would they describe their problem and you need to headline test those. That's the primary, you know, major thing. And from an advertising perspective, people don't buy immediately. That's just the reality of it. It takes a lot of touchpoints. I mean, as per our data, you got to give 11 touchpoints before somebody even responds or books an appointment. So if you have this short-term mindset that I will launch an ad, make money tomorrow, guess what? You're going to lose. No questions. In this market, no chance to survive. So you got to have that long-term perspective for your business. So use testimonial-based retargeting. Take all of your customers, take their success stories, aha moments, match them up, run that as a retargeting ad. So if you have a book, you know, for example, If you have a gutter cleaning service, right, you show them the ad, they click, they didn't book an appointment, show them the testimonials of all of your clients who had an exceptional experience to prove that you're the best person to pick. Because this is a world where everybody is just claiming things. You got to show up in it differently. You got to lead with proof. And that's one of the reasons I'm big on awards and putting them around me, because I've delivered results. This is the proof that we actually do stuff, and that really changes the perception on how you are seen as a business. I hope that helps.

Oh, that's been amazing. Well, you know, kudos for all your success. And this has been an amazing conversation. And I'm sure we can talk a lot longer. But I know you also have a meeting right after this. And so I want to give you time to share how people can get a hold of you. You already kind of shared who you help. You know, but how do people get a hold of you? I know you have a book out as well. So just share some of that information.

Sure. So I— you can find me at funnelingmedia.com. That's literally my website. You can see all my client case studies and testimonials, and I'm an open book. You can find me on all my platforms, any platform. Just type my name, Nikhil Saiyadi, uh, N-I-K-H-I-L-S-A-I-A-A-D-I. And, uh, you can also buy my book if you're interested. It's 99 cents on Amazon. It's called Funneling Secrets. That's the playbook on how our clients and our interview guests have made millions of dollars working with us, and my own story on how I've done it in a very detailed manner. And, uh, yeah, I'm excited to connect with you guys even though we might not directly work with you. And if you're not at that stage of million dollars and over where we do a done-for-you projects, there is different levels where I'm not fully involved but we still don't compromise on results, where you have a done-with-you or DIY solutions at a better budget. Again, we need to serve you guys, we need to show you what's actually working. And it's a moral responsibility for me to put this in more hands so you don't lose your advertising dollars. You don't get stuck with your marketing. I'm excited to help more business owners. So if you're interested in that, check out funnelingmedia.com. Happy to have a chat.

That's awesome, man. Well, congratulations on all your, all your success, man. Proud of you and well done. And that's been amazing. I appreciate you coming on and spending some time with me and having a great conversation.

Thank you so much. Appreciate you inviting me, Paul. And guys, I would like to leave with one last line: do it anyways. Regardless of the fear of execution, the fear of failure, regardless of the ability you think that you can achieve it and the skills you have, regardless of the uncertainty you're going through, just do the work and you cannot fail. And repetition is a strategy, it's not a gimmick. Repetition is a strategy. Just do it so many times that you cannot fail. Like, I've built so many funnels, I just can't go wrong with it. I've just taken thousands of sales calls. I can't be bad at it. I've spoken at so many events, I could just take over any conversation. So do that repetition. And that's what people avoid. People think it's easy. It's not the work that needs doing. Just do it. Repetition. You're going to suck, but you do it again, you suck lesser. And then you become exceptional. I'll leave you with that.

That's awesome. Thank you so much.

Have a good one, guys. Bye-bye. You are listening to Conversations with Misfits, Mavericks, and Trailblazers.