133. Retain Key Talent | Justin Bartley

My number one success secret, I guess, would be hiring great people. That is the answer to everything. Well, and that underscores the importance of, okay, you get these great people, now how do you keep them growing and happy? And that's what we're talking about today.

This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan. All right, hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. This is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and I have got a return guest today, Justin Bartley. From Next Door and Window. This guy, this guy, he's been here 2 or 3 times before. If you've not heard his previous episodes, go back and listen to those as well because you are in for, you know, some very good information. This is really— this is one of the smartest guys I know in the business. And there is going to be a lot to learn here. So, Justin, Thanks for being here, Brian.

Really happy to be here, and it is truly an amazing time to be in the home improvement industry. So, so, so happy to be here with you today. Yeah, to talk about some of the opportunities and challenges though in the industry.

Yeah. So tell us first, tell us how's business going? It's an amazing time, you said. How's business going for you?

Well, I think like many, it's, it's been really strong. For about the past year, a little bit over a year. I think it was last May of 20, late May of 2020 where we really saw things turn around quickly. And by June we were having record months. Pretty much in the past year we've probably had 10 or 11 record months out of 12. So it's been really strong. The demand for home improvement, especially windows and doors, that's what we specialize in. Very strong. Just this August, you know, this month is the first time that we have seen a little bit of a slowdown in appointments, and our sales have been actually below plan for the first time in a long time. Wow. We still have tremendous momentum going, but definitely a little low, and we think it's a good thing too because, you know, people are starting to get out, do some vacations, back to school. Some normal activities that, you know, we think that's all healthy for the, for the business.

So yeah, what about backlog? How, how are you with your backlog?

Backlog has been a major issue. Again, very, very common in the industry. We've got right now about 6 months worth of work that's unsold. You know, that hasn't been the problem. We're, we're, the sales bookings are, are up.

Yeah.

But actually getting product to install is still a major issue with lead times at least 3 to 5 times longer than normal.

Yeah.

So that's, that's been a challenge to get product. We've actually had a few days where we have a hard time filling our crews, even though we've sold about 50% more in the first half of the year than any other year.

Oh my God. Oh, wow.

But yet we can't get product here. Yeah. So we, we, we hope that the deliveries get more consistent and pick up as we, you know, enter the fall here so that we can try to beat some of the, some of the winter chaos that comes in Chicago.

Right, right. To give everybody just to— I'm not going to have you go back into your story again, but just to give everybody a sense of your business, you're in the suburbs of Chicago. How many crews, install crews are you running right now?

We have anywhere from, you know, 10 to 15 crews going on a daily basis, just depending. Again, 15 when we have a product here. Yeah. We have plenty of work to keep all of those crews busy, but that gives you some idea.

Yeah. How many salespeople?

We have 16, between 16 and 20 salespeople right now. We have a few in training, so we'll have about 20.

Nice.

As we, as we head into September.

Cool. So Justin, I was just telling him he did something to make my job a whole lot easier when we reached out to him. He actually came back to us with an idea for what we should talk about in this podcast. And I said thank you to him before the recording. I'll say thank you to him again. And you guys are going to say thank you to him because here it is. He says, what can we do This is our topic for the day. What can we do to better retain our key people in this very competitive environment for talent? So that's loaded. And I know you actually gave me some notes, but I'm just gonna, I'm gonna listen to you. What are some of the things you guys are doing? What have you seen that's, that's what's working for you?

Well, we know that The job market is very tight, especially in home improvement in all areas. Obviously, installers are extremely hard to find. Salespeople are always hard to find. It's even more difficult right now, you know, over this past year to find people that want to come in and work. So there's a big challenge in our industry, and I don't think enough people are aware of all of the opportunities in home improvement. So we're doing a lot to on the hiring front to try to bring more people into the industry, but what are we doing with our own people to keep them? Because we know there's more opportunities, there's more job opportunities out there right now due to the new virtual world. You don't necessarily have to live in the city that you want to work in anymore. All the, the side gigs happening now. So there's so many opportunities for people out there. And so what can we do, you know, as, as companies, as employers to make sure that our people are happy with, you know, working at our companies? Brian, I think you would agree with this, you know, and probably the listeners are mostly managers, owners. And I think for the most part, we all love growth. We're very driven with goal setting. And development. And that's what inspires us. Money is certainly important, but I would argue that development and opportunity is just as important or more so. So what can we do to foster that within our companies, that growth and development that is so important to the owners? So what are we doing for our people? And I think that's where, where the big opportunity lies with, with our team. So what can we do on a regular basis to ensure that we have the right opportunities, the right career growth and development for our team? And so today I thought we could talk about some very specific tools that we found, you know, has worked for us over these past 4 or 5 years. And we think when done right, it can really help, you know, all the companies on the call and everybody in home improvement.

Yeah, love it. So tell us, let's talk about, you know, retaining, you know, key people. What are some of the things that you guys are doing there?

Well, again, we feel that we hire this way, you know, we look for self-starters, we look for people that, that are energized, that are driven, that want to grow. That's who we hope that we bring on to our team. And once we do, especially the sales team, I mean, salespeople are driven. They have to be. So, you know, what can we do to help them? And, you know, we think that, again, career growth and planning and personal and professional development is really important. So I guess where we start is with I know a lot of the people on the call, and Brian, you use EOS, and there's a tool in EOS called the 5-5-5 Quarterly Conversation. So we think that that's at the foundation of good communication with your staff to ensure that you're aligned with them and you're heading in the right direction. They feel really good about where they work. So if you're not familiar with the 5-5-5, it's a quarterly conversation that's planned that is between you and your direct reports. So Brian, you know, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I don't know when the last time is that, you know, you had— you probably, you don't have anybody to report to, but you probably have people that report to you. And, you know, I ask the question all the time, how often do you meet with your manager to discuss not just your performance, but your goals, your career goals, your income goals, your personal goals? And again, as owners, we have the privilege to be in networking groups and masterminds, and our team, they don't always have those opportunities. So why not, as business owners, have that same sort of environment where we can help our all of our team members to have some of those same goals and opportunities to talk about what they want to accomplish. So the 5-5-5 is a great place to do that because it's built in and every quarter it happens. So you don't have to worry about when do I do this, how do I do this? Set a quarterly meeting with all of your direct reports, explain the process to them. And let them know it's not a review. Because 5 years ago when we started this, everybody just thought, oh, so not only do we have a yearly review, now we have to have a review 4 times a year. So it's really about having a conversation where your subordinate, if you will, they talk 80% of the time. It's about asking good questions and getting them to talk so that you can get in alignment with their goals and help them down the path at your company to make sure that they're achieving everything they want to. Because if you have an environment where your people feel like there's growth opportunities and they're developing personally and professionally, they're going to want to stay there. That's why people look. I mean, money is important again, but I believe that the professional and personal growth is equally important. So have this structure, meet with your people every quarter, and there's a, I guess, a way to do it. So it doesn't seem like it's a review. So that's an important distinction.

Yeah. Can you tell everybody what the 5s are? 5-5-5?

Sure. So the 5-5-5, a little misleading, but again, it's an EOS. I didn't develop this. Gino Wickman at EOS did, and we've been running on EOS now since 2014. So I think this is our 7th year on it.

Wow. Yeah.

The 5-5-5, if you're part of EOS, that means you have core values that you're hopefully sharing with your teams. So typically you have about 5 core values. You have clear roles for each person in your company, in each, each position. Typically there's 3 to 5 roles. So that's 5, 5, and then the last 5 are, are rocks or quarterly goals. EOS calls them rocks. And you typically don't necessarily have 5 goals or rocks every, every quarter, but that's where the 5, 5, 5 comes from. Yeah. So during these meetings, you would typically, as a backdrop, You would want to make sure that, you know, you and your, your team member are on the same page with the core values. Make sure that they're killing it in their roles, that they're really doing a great job and they have total clarity on what their roles are. And then they're really clear on what their, their rocks are, or their— or another word for goals, uh, for the quarter. So that's, that's the basic structure for the 5-5-5. That should center around those really important topics. And I think when you talk about quarterly goals, that's where you have the opportunity to not only talk about company goals, because of course, Brian, you as an owner, you want your team, they have company goals, you want them to accomplish things, but this is why it's so important to also encourage your team member to bring their own personal and professional development goals to you. And this is an opportunity to let them bring those goals into the conversation. And as a manager, you can help them to track those goals, get those goals on paper, and from quarter to quarter, help them along that path that they want to go down. Yeah.

So if what's really— if I can make a comment here, Justin, what's really interesting is Once the company gets to a certain size, you know, we talk about at the beginning, you really have to understand that you're a sales and marketing company. That's like the first big shift that you have to make in order to grow your company. You really have to understand we're a sales and marketing company, and you need to start to build, focus your efforts around that, because that's what gets you premium pricing. That's what It gives you the ability to get the margins that you need in order to grow the business and on and on and on. But something interesting starts to happen when you get bigger. And by the way, and this is not only for bigger companies, everything we're talking about here is stuff that can be applied regardless of size and regardless of whether or not you're doing something like an EOS. None of what he's— we just happen to use that framework. My company, Justin's company, and many of my other clients, But it's just, you know, you can still do this stuff without the EOS framework. I just want people to be clear about that. But what really starts to happen more and more as the company grows, you really do start to become a people development company. And it's, it's critical because without this team of people, you, the owner, you have no freedom. Like when I first met you, you were one of the— you're, you're interesting though, and I've said this to you before— you're one of the very rare exceptions of people that can be both an integrator and a visionary. So you could be an entrepreneur, you know, type, you know, with the vision and the this and the that. You also have the skill set to put all the details and all the parts and pieces together. When I first met you, you were, you you were wearing both hats. Today you're not wearing both hats anymore. That's correct, right?

I think that's correct. You know, yes, I do have the, the OCD tendencies. You know, I, I love process. I love getting all that down. But yet at some point, if you, if you want to grow your company, you have to think bigger and you have to build a team. Right. And you're, you're, you're 100% right about the people development. As you, the bigger you get, the more you rely on hiring great people. My number one success secret, I guess, would be hiring great people. That is the answer to everything. Well, and that underscores the importance of, okay, you get these great people. Now, how do you keep them growing and happy? And that's what we're talking about today.

Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, you're not the only one. Right? You see this in all of the great businesses in our industry and outside of our industry. And you hear, you hear successful entrepreneurs say this all the time. It's, it's, we're all about finding great people and put, and putting them in place, in a place where they can win, right? Where they get also what they want. Because if they're getting what they want, which is what you're talking about, what we're talking about here, and you're doing a great job of starting to lay out how you make this happen. But if they're getting what they want, you know, they're going to work hard. And why would they want to go anywhere else? So anyway, I just, I wanted to throw that, that comment in there about this.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's really the concept here is, you know, have, have a structure where you, you know, platform where people have an opportunity to grow. And I think it happens through conversations. And as they say, people leave managers, they don't leave companies. And if you're a manager, this is one of the most important tools you can have to get on the same page with your people. Take an hour a quarter per person, put it in your calendar, and it's a great investment of your time. To sit down with your team member and discuss their future and how they're doing in the role and things that they can do to improve. You know, I mean, the, the days of the, of the annual review, you know, once a year, talk about your, your performance and your future. Those days are over. And if you're doing that, you're not going to keep— you're not going to keep good people. Right. But there's two— such a good point.

Yeah.

There's too much riding on the— especially newer people coming into the workforce. And sometimes they have a reputation for job hopping. And everybody wants an opportunity. I know it doesn't matter where you're at, what stage you're at. And hey, we have some folks that they've been selling for 30, 40 years, and we still believe, like, have the growth mindset, right? I mean, that's the, that's what we want in our companies. It doesn't matter if you just started or if you've been doing this for 40 years, everybody wants, wants to learn and grow and get better and more productive. And we think this is where it starts, you know, having these conversations of alignment with your manager.

Cool. So about an hour per quarter per person who is your direct report right now, how many, just for context, how many direct reports do you have?

Right. Well, what I have is it's my leadership team.

Your leadership team. Yeah.

Right. And then I have a few other, 1 or 2 other managers that I'll do a 5-5-5 with. So maybe I have 6 and a quarter.

Okay.

And it's time-consuming. And then, you know, you need to have your managers learn the process so that they can do this properly with all their direct reports as well. Yeah. So it takes some time and training, and not every manager can have these kinds of conversations and keep them productive. So that's also another area of opportunity in your company is to, is to teach your managers how to have these conversations and how to ask the right questions. And I have a few questions too, that, that we ask that helps to get your people to talk. Because the one complaint I get is, yeah, we had this meeting and I asked how things are going and they said great, and 10 minutes later the meeting was over.

Yeah.

And that's not helping. And the idea is to get your people to talk, you know, tell you what's important, where they want to go. The job is important to every one of your people, and it's important to get them to talk about what's important to them in the job and that they feel like they're heading in the right direction. So, you know, as far as some of the questions, you know, just to kind of help. So you decide, so first ask yourself, when's the last time you talked to your direct reports? And if it was a year ago, you're in trouble because they could be out looking, you don't know what's on their mind. So get connected to find out what's on their mind. So once you're able to explain this quarterly conversation, again, you don't have to use EOS. It's just every quarter have a meeting, a conversation. You could call it an alignment meeting. You want to make sure you're aligned with all of your people. So a few tools that we've used, and I did not develop any of these tools, these are all just tools that are out in the marketplace that that work really well for me. So I said, well, hey, if I really enjoy these, then I know other people do too. And again, Brian, we're in a lot of the same coaching and networking groups, and all of these tools are well known when you get to higher-level management, but it doesn't always get down to all of our people. So we thought it was really important to bring some of these tools over. So for example, one tool that I that I like to give to all of our people is just the wheel of life. You probably are familiar with it. Again, I didn't develop it. I don't know who did, but it's a wheel and it has all the important areas of your life on it. It has your relationships, your income, your career, you know, your personal time, maybe your home, your leisure, all of the areas that are really important. And if we think that we're going to have happy people just because we talk about the job they're doing, that one little slice of their life, that's not the case, right? I mean, we all know that sometimes people are out of balance.

Yeah.

They're working their butt off and they're producing and they're doing great, but the other 6 areas of their lives are falling apart. And what do you think's gonna happen?

Yeah.

They're, it's not sustainable. So we love the Wheel of Life. Again, not every Everybody's going to play ball with you. Some, some of your team members might be like, ah, I don't want to, but it's a great forum meeting. You could give them the tool, ask them to do it for themselves and come into the meeting. So now they have some ideas on what they want to talk about. So again, the Wheel of Life, it's got all the areas of your life and just ask them to kind of rate 1 to 10 in each area. So maybe career is a 10, but maybe their leisure is a 0 because they work 7 days a week. And they're a salesperson, they haven't had a day off in 8 months. What do you think that's happening right now? They're probably looking, how do I find something else where I can have some balance? So Wheel of Life is a great tool. And another question that I got from one of my Coaches, Dan Sullivan. I know, Brian, you know Dan as well. And it's a question when you're sitting with your team member, and I would recommend you give these to them in advance so that they don't come in the meeting and they're put on the spot and get all nervous. But give it to them in advance, and it just says, you know, if me and you are sitting here in 3 years, what has to happen personally and professionally for you to feel like you're making progress? Because again, that's what everybody wants. They want to feel like they're making progress, they're growing, they're learning. So another great question, great tool that I've used a lot in my quarterly conversations, my yearly reviews, to get my people to open up and talk to me rather than just ask them what's on your mind or what are your goals. These are tools to help kind of flesh those things out. So 2 great tools that I like to use: the Wheel of Life, that question, because really you're trying to understand what your team members' personal and professional goals are so you can start to get those on paper. And from quarter to quarter, you want to write them down. You want to share that paper with your team member because not everybody's super organized to track their goals like we are. But, right, so you want to help them a little bit, share the goal. Then every quarter you can reflect on How are things going? And you, as a manager, it's your job to make sure that your people feel like they're going in the right direction. And you will have people that are very driven and you're going to hear about all these goals that they have that you didn't know about that now you're engaged. You know, you can talk to them about these goals out of the office or inside. And, you know, as a really good manager, you're going to help them, even if it's not directly work-related. There are opportunities to help people. If it's a fitness goal, I mean, we have tons of those where people come in and they have their fitness goals. We help, we, you know, we get them on paper, we put them into our system, we track them from quarter to quarter. And, you know, that's another, like the wellness area of life that is really important to your people. And it's really important to you because you want your people to be healthy as well. So, you know, another really important area is the health and wellness. And so we have so many great examples of people here at our company that since we started this process, they've shared stories, they've shared their goals, and they've shared, you know, promotions that they were looking to get. And it's just been, it's been a great process to watch, and you can see it, it really does work.

Yeah, you know, what's really interesting is I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about yesterday, I interviewed Brad Bettner. And I'm not sure if he's going to air before you or after you. But he's actually the integrator for Herbert Roofing. And I wanted to get the integrator's point of view. And what was really interesting throughout our conversation about EOS, we were talking about EOS, but the Again, the principles are the same. One of the very cool byproducts of the EOS framework and system is that we deal with issues before they become something we can't deal with, right? So like you said, with the review, having it once a year, that is, you're right, I think that's outdated because by that point, it might be too late to solve the problem. And by doing it this way, what you're suggesting by doing it quarterly, you get a pulse every quarter on where is this person? Are they here? Like, are they— I'm pointing at my head. Those on video can see, but mentally, are they here? They might be here physically, but mentally, are they here? I love your Wheel of Life things. Bob Quillen at Quillen Brothers, does something very similar to that. And he talks about how critical it is to understand, hey, are you having money problems at home? Are you having problems with your spouse? Both of those things, by the way, can kill, I shouldn't say kill, that's a harsh word, but it could cause an employee to leave. Not because of you, not because of the company, not because of the opportunity, just because of circumstances that they created at home. Dependency, right? Salespeople are very driven, but they could become dependent on stuff. And so what you're suggesting here is helping to catch that ahead of time as a byproduct of, you know, of the process. I think it's really good. And I love the Dan Sullivan question. The, you know, if we were meeting here 3 years from now, What that does also is it helps you recognize whether that person in front of you can think ahead, or are they just thinking about today? Are they just, oh man, I just gotta survive today. We've met those people. I mean, every day is a struggle for them, and I feel bad for them, but we want people that have, that they can think forward, they have ambition, they want— they're goal-oriented, just like you've been saying. And I think that's a fantastic way of bringing it out. And I think you've probably had this experience. I know I've had, I've had it when I've asked people, is they're taken aback by that question because nobody's ever asked them that question before. Nobody. And so anyway, I just wanted to throw my two cents in.

You're right. And through this process, you know, after doing hundreds of these quarterly conversations, it also allows me as an owner to find out where our people are needing help. And a good example is that, you know, people have mentioned credit card debt on more than one occasion. It was a theme. And I'm thinking, you know, this is really bad, and what can we do to help people? And so we actually, you know, we try to bring speakers in, and we just had one. We had a financial expert come in. It's real easy, obviously, with webinars, Brian. We have lunch and learns, and the most recent one, you know, I have a friend of mine who runs a money management company and financial planning. And he was happy to give 45 minutes of his time at no charge. All I had to do is buy a few of his books and he was happy. He didn't charge us anything and he was able to— we had 20 or 30 people on the call and he was able to talk about saving, retirement, 529 plans. So there's so much you can do to help give your team the tools they need to succeed, but you need to know what's important to them first.

Yeah, love it. What else?

Well, again, part of the just asking, you know, what's important to your people and personal/professional development, you know, you want to have programs in your company that where you can actually help promote that directly. And so a few of the things we've done, we do have a, we have a management training program that we developed because again, people development. So how do you, this is a real thing that happens. You meet with your per— one of your people and they say, I want to be a manager here. I'd like to do that. Okay. So what do you do? Well, you want to get them training. So we have a management training program. It's a lot of self-study things, but again, because there are budgets, but we have— there's about 15 management leadership books in the program. Okay, your team member tells you they're interested in management. Great, let's get you started. I've got 2 books that— let's make this a goal for this quarter. I'd like you to read this book and this book. Now you can find out how serious they are about becoming a manager. Give them some books to read. That's just a kind of an intro to management. Let them start learning about it. Another part is we're big with presentations and public speaking. So we actually offer the Dale Carnegie course to all of our people here if they choose to take it.

That's really interesting.

We, we've been doing this also since 2014, and it's an investment of the company. It's not a cheap course, but I think it's a life changer. And I, I went through it. We've had— it's a requirement to be a manager here. You must go through the, the Dale Carnegie communications course. And it's, it's a course that goes 8 or 10 weeks. And every single week, you have to get in front of the class, and there's usually anywhere from 20, 30 people in your class and do public speaking. So just, you know, another tool that we have here, and we've seen tremendous breakthroughs from people that have gone through the course, you know, so anyone who thinks they want to be a manager, You know, we have them go ahead and take that course. And even if they're not a manager, if they really want to take it, we open it up to all of our people here because we think it's so valuable and it really helps people communicate better and learn a really important skill.

Yeah, that's interesting. Why public speaking? But you just said it, you just answered it. It helps them learn a skill, but it also helps them communicate better.

Well, I mean, we're in home improvement. We're dealing with homeowners all day long, right? And we know one of the most important parts of our business is communication. And whether it's, you know, obviously salespeople, but almost everybody in our company, they, they talk with each other and they talk with the customer.

Yeah.

But more than that, the public speaking thing, it's just one of those things that gets you outside the box. And Warren Buffett, we all know Warren Buffett, when you read about, read his books, and he'll tell you one of the most important things he did early on in life was do the Dale Carnegie class because he learned how to talk, how to sell. So communicating is so important. So that's just, again, that's something we offer to our people that we think it's made a big difference.

Yeah.

And you know, again, it makes people really feel good if they can get through that class. We've had some people that are totally quiet, introverted, like they're scared out of their mind to take it, but they've done it. So that, that's just another tool. Yeah. In that personal professional development that people are gonna always remember and they're gonna see value in the company they work for. Because they're getting skills and they're getting, you know, just other, other ways to learn that maybe they're not going to get somewhere else.

Right. So this all sounds like a lot of work. And, you know, and it is a lot of work. All of this is, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot of work. However, however, once you set it up, And once you do it right, it actually frees you up to do more of what you want. I mean, what do you say to people that are listening to this and saying, wow, I'm running around, I barely have enough time for myself, let alone now I gotta start to, you know, get in and understand my people and what they want and all of that? What do you, what do you say to to that?

Well, we've, we've talked in the past a lot about resources and books, and we, we all agree— probably everybody on the call who's grown a company agrees that The E-Myth is a great book where it really talks about, you know, becoming a business owner and not an operator. I mean, if you're out installing all day, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're okay staying the same size forever, right? But if you want to grow, you have to do it through hiring great people. There's no way around it. There's no way around it. As soon as you decide you want to hire one great person, well, now this becomes really important that you're giving the right tools to this, this person that you hired to give them development and growth. Right. So that's, yeah, that's important. And then of course the EOS book, Traction's another, another great book that I would recommend reading if you haven't. That really talks about the importance of getting the right people in the right seats. And that, that was probably the biggest game changer for me in 2014 when I read that book, brought EOS on, made just some really key important hires. And, you know, we've almost doubled the company since then, 6, 6 years ago, 7 years ago. And I would give a lot of credit to the process, and specifically the people, the people part of getting the right people in the right seats. And now today we're talking about, okay, you get this great person, how do you, how do you keep them? You know, what can you do to make it a great place for them to work? So we gave some tools today. Hopefully people find them useful.

This is great stuff, but you know, it just, it goes to show you don't have to invent any of this stuff yourself. I mean, look, you, you found this stuff in other places and, you know, and brought on other resources. You don't have to figure it all out yourself because it's all the stuff is already out there. And so that, that helps make it a little bit easier. And then you've got, you know, a guy like Justin that's basically telling you how to do it. Here's how you execute it. It's helpful. Now it's just a matter of for those that are maybe that don't have the time is the part of the reason you don't have the time is because you don't have the right people. And you don't have the right people because maybe you're not doing some, you know, it's all related. They all, you know, they all work together. And so hopefully this has been helpful. This has been really good stuff, Justin. I, I reached out to Justin and like I said at the beginning, he's great. I mean, he gave He actually came prepared. Most people just show up and we come up with something to talk about, but not Justin. Justin's like, hey, we could talk about this. So thank you, you made my life a lot easier today. I appreciate that.

Well, you're welcome, Brian. And I, you know, I, I love— just like you mentioned Bob Quillin, and yeah, I've listened to Bob a lot too. And it's just that the people development area is so important today especially, and, and keeping your great people Yeah, I think there's anything more important.

No, you're absolutely right. Well, Justin, thank you again. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. And to everybody listening, this was pure gold. You probably want to go back and listen to it again and take some of those ideas. Start small. If you don't have the time, start small. Start with something. But I think, you know, the idea here is in an environment where it's so tough to bring on new people, the last thing you want to do is lose good people. So put in a retention plan for keeping those good people. And when you develop them and you do the things that Justin recommended here, they just get stronger. They just get better. And that ends up helping you and helping the company and of course, helping, helping them. So good stuff. Thank you, my friend.

I appreciate it. Thanks, Brian.

All right, everybody. So Again, good stuff. And until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and this is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a different way? Did it spark an idea or ideas that you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business or your life today. I really hope so. If it did, I'd like to ask you a favor. Would you leave a 5-star review of the podcast? By doing so, you'll help other contractors find the podcast more easily so that we can help them achieve more success, wealth, and freedom. And before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. In fact, if you haven't already, make sure you go to thewealthycontractor.com and get your free copy of my latest book, The 7 Secrets to Becoming a Wealthy Contractor. Just pay shipping and handling, and I'll take care of the cost of the book. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan.