172. Use Marketing to Control Your Own Destiny | Megan Beattie

But the companies I see that are growing and I believe are going to come out the other side of this shining are the ones that are very methodical about perfecting a process before adding the next process. And that's lead gen, that's sales, that's all of the above. This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and Lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan.

Welcome. We're gonna jump right into it, Megan. All right, Megan Knows Marketing is back with us again. And I'm super excited because Megan is going to, for the very first time, is going to be speaking at Accelerate Live in February. February 7th and 8th, to be exact, in Fort Myers, Florida. I just found out, by the way, Megan, we're recording this at the end of October, and we're at a little, a tick over 50% of the seats already sold.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, already sold out. Yeah. So I think we're gonna sell out even earlier than we did last year. And so that's pretty exciting. We're gonna have— this will be our biggest event yet. And you are going to be there to talk about marketing. And yes, sir, how to protect yourself. I guess, you know, the whole theme is really going to be about how do you build a business that will go the distance, meaning regardless of what happens in the marketplace, if, if there is a recession, or if there is a slowdown, how are you going to set yourself up to be successful regardless of that? And so with all of that, let's put you on the spot and talk about— we're at the end of October. What are you seeing and hearing out there with your clients?

Massive panic. Massive panic. Yeah. Yeah. As we've all been talking about for quite some time, you know, the leads have been easy to get the last couple of years. You know, it started during the COVID era where everyone kind of freaked out and said, what are we going to do. And then it actually, in our industry, as you know, it had an opposite effect where things were actually easier for us for a couple of years. I don't think anyone expected that. And so, you know, all of a sudden the fish have been jumping in the boat. We've discussed that a couple of times now. And we knew eventually our industry and the lead flow, inbound leads, people calling in, eventually we knew that that would even back out to its normal level, right? Well, we're starting to see that. And as we knew would happen. And I have companies that I consult with that are, have heavy on inbound and also do some outbound. And then I have some that just only want to do inbound. And those companies that only want to do inbound have went into a panic-stricken mode in the past couple of weeks because inbound leads have slowed to almost nothing in certain markets. So, you know, there is some panic. You know, we're getting a lot of calls at our consulting firm at Tony Hody Training and Consulting. We're kind of known for outbound marketing, right? We're known for make marketing, canvassing, face-to-face at shows and events, and then retail inside of a lot of stores. Retail environments, whether that be our, our Sam's Club programs, local, you know, hardware stores, or even something larger like a Costco program or Home Depot. All of those face-to-face marketing efforts are controllable. So, you know, the companies that are doing those are all doing okay because nothing has really changed for them. But the companies that are relying on the phone calls coming in from the customers, them seeking us out, they're having a hard time right now. And, you know, the lead aggregators it's the same thing. And I think a lot of people, you know, we panic and we say, oh, well, I'll just pay for some lead aggregators. Well, lead aggregators are also feeling the hit from, you know, people that are, you know, not shopping as often right now. So, you know, they're giving us more garbage because they have a business to run too. And so, you know, we're running into this issue where even when they go to a lead aggregator right now, at this point, we're kind of out of the peak season for that. And so they still are giving us leads, but it's not as many. And it's a lot of things that may not be something that we do. And so really being able to control your own destiny, to have some marketing that you can make something out of nothing, you know, that's going to be key for a lot of people in the next 12, 18 months, I think.

Yeah, I like that. Controlling your own destiny, which is really what it's all about, you know, without necessarily going too into specifics about particular markets, let's say. But are you seeing that this is happening all across the board, or do you see it happening in certain pockets?

On inbound, I see it happening all across the board. I mean, I have clients on the East Coast, West Coast. Yes. East Coast, West Coast, South, Midwest, all of the above. And every single one that is heavily relying on inbound leads has said there has been a slowdown. Some of them are getting leads from their lead vendors with you know, 50% disconnected phone numbers, things of that nature, you know, that were not really what was going on the last year or so. And so now, you know, those of us— and there's a lot of young people that have come in in marketing or sales into our industry during the good time in the last couple of years, and they don't realize that this is actually pretty normal what's happening right now. But we've been spoiled.

So it's funny, and, and, you know, you and I talk to a lot of people And so I was at an event last week and I met these, these guys, these two young brothers, and we're talking about the business. And of course, you know, I, I always want to know if people are making money. So my question is always, you know, if they're talking about their volume, revenue, I'll say my question is always, well, did you make any money? And it's interesting that, and of course, you know, in almost every case, in almost every case, it's like, well, you know, anytime— you've heard me say this before— anytime the answer starts with well, you know, there's excuses coming and that the numbers aren't good. These guys, great guys, too, really nice guys, which is almost everybody I've met, you know, and I did within the industry, really good people. And you and I, we care about the people that we work with. And it's, it's heartbreaking to see them working so hard and not making the money they should. Now, where I'm going with this is that, so these guys over the last 2 or 3 years have built a business. So we talked about their volume. They're doing $1.2 million a month. Okay. So they're pacing to over $12 million. Now, before 2019, I mean, to get a company to $1 million a month, that was quite a bit of work. I mean, it was a lot of work. And now you're seeing it like you got all these companies that are doing, you know, $1 million a month, $2 million a month, $500,000 a month. So as things kind of normalize, and one of the things, by the way, I mean, this was just, I felt bad. It's like one of the things they were talking about as well. We've made this huge investment in training of people. And is that the right thing to do? And I'm like thinking, well, A, I don't know enough to tell you yes or no, but my initial reaction is you better figure out how to make money on— why don't you scale your, your growth back a little bit?

Yeah.

Figure out how to make leads and make money on $10 million and go and kind of go from, from there. And I'm afraid that, and I'd like to get your take on this, I'm afraid that a lot of these people that got spoiled over the last couple of years, how are they going to deal with this? Like, what are the changes that they need to start making now, just in case? I mean, I don't think it's gonna I think it's going to be okay. I think it's going to be more like, like normal, like what you and I are used to. But I don't know. What do you think about, about some of these people?

Yeah. Yeah. See, that's a great question. I think there is a lot of people try and fix an issue in their business in the wrong manner. Right. And so here is, you know, a great example of that. Okay. We're not profitable enough on $10 or $12 or $13 or $14 million. So we're just going to invest in people in training. Well, you know, again, it goes back to what you just said, which is it's like when you're in school and you're like, the answer to the problem is need more information. The answer is not that I can give you an answer, right? I would need to know more factors. But with that specific scenario, I'm of the same opinion that you are. Like, more is not better if we're not profitable at the level we're at. Never has more become better. I see this too, where clients try to add product lines to hide the fact that they don't have enough leads or they don't have enough sales. And I say, if you're not profitable, on 1 to 2 products, what makes you think 8 products will solve that issue?

Yeah.

What makes you think that a product that you have no experience installing and no experience marketing or selling is the solution to needing more leads? No, no, no, it's not that. It's that we have to get everything dialed in on a small scale so that we can then, you know, expand. So while, you know, training new people and investing in that might have been part of that journey for them, that same money they spent on that might have been better spent in a different area. If we look at their business as a whole, we may look at their, their operational side or their systems and processes or their profit model, and we might say this is broken. And so, you know, training people in a broken process model is just going to cost you more money.

Yeah. And I'm afraid that that's the road that these guys are headed down because their initial question to me was about scaling. And a lot of people are like, okay, well, we did $12 million this year, so next year we got to do $18 million. So how are you— what kind of advice are you giving to your clients in terms of thinking about and planning for next year?

Yeah, a couple of things. Number one, we have to get some sort of lead pipeline coming in that is more controllable for you. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, yeah, this would not be a good time to go out and overspend. To spend on extravagant things. We should be back to basics right now. Right now, it's a good idea to make sure that we have all of our processes on the sales end, that we have all of our processes on the lead gen end, that we have all of our conversions, that we know our numbers. Like, that portion of the business is going to be more important in the next year than it's been in a long time, because we do have a lot of these new companies that have— and not necessarily new companies, but maybe companies that weren't doing well, and then due to being spoiled in the past couple of years, it sort of manufactured a false confidence. And so people are starting to think they're actually better at this than they are. And when society normalizes, a lot of times, if they're not prepared, some of that's going to take a step backwards for them. And so a lot of my clients are looking at adding, and they're doing it methodically. The ones that are doing it well, and we share a lot of the same clients, you and I, the ones that are doing it well are doing it methodically to where they're putting this piece in place. They are going 100% all in and perfecting this. And then we go to the next piece, right? So a lot of A lot of times I get the same question. Well, Megan, what lead generation is good for my business? What lead generation sources should I add? And I said, well, that depends. I mean, do you have all of these other things in place that are going to have to be in place to support the lead generation? Because if you don't have someone fielding the leads, if you don't have someone monitoring the spend, well, we have to look at that first before we just start spending money and throwing it at different lead vendors. Right. And so the ones that do it well, Brian, are methodically adding some make marketing into their mix, even if they were traditionally inbound, they are wanting to find out, how do I resurrect old leads out of my database through calling? How do I reach previous customers more? How do I do face-to-face marketing? Even if they're not ready for a full-fledged canvassing team, you know, canvassing is not the solution to everybody's company. It is to some, some it's not, some it will never work because the sales culture will reject it. And if no one is holding them accountable, it will fail miserably. So it depends on, you know, what other pieces they have in place as to what things they should do. But the companies I see that are growing and I believe are going to come out the other side of this shining are the ones that are very methodical about perfecting a process before adding the next process. And that's, that's lead gen, that's sales, that's all of the above, you know, because if we don't have the basics narrowed down, all the fancy technology, lead vendors, you know, contact rate stuff, none of that even matters. It's, it's completely irrelevant at that point.

I hate to say it like this because again, I mean, you and I are in the business of helping home improvement owners be more successful. And so we call it, you know, one thing I love about you, Megan, and I think everybody that knows you is you don't sugarcoat anything, but because you are effective at what you do. And so I'll say this with that, you know, with that a little bit of preamble, I guess, is that too many people are looking for that magic bullet? What is that one little piece of magic? And so they're buying this software, they're going to that lead aggregator, they're doing this, they're doing that. And what they're not looking at is the inside. What are we doing as a company, which is everything that you just said? And is there— let's just be clear. Do you believe that there is a magic bullet out there?

It's kind of like an overnight success. right? It takes 15, 20 years to become one, right? And so the magic bullet, I feel like, is of the same theory where everyone— it's like you're praying for something to come and save you. It's not going to, right? And the people that— and this is again, because you already warned everyone what they're about to get with me, I'm going to say this. The people that rely on the magic bullet, Brian, there's going to be massive carnage in our industry.

Huge.

There is going to be massive carnage. People that are not supposed to be in business because they haven't earned their business the right will not be in business in 18 months. The people that do not master the basics of lead gen, of sales, of installation processes now are going to have a really hard time. And so hopefully they survive. As you know, you and I both are very hard on our clients about making sure that they're making the right financial decisions and they're making the right decisions with their money for their lead gen and also for their business in general. But, you know, there's a lot of people that that probably shouldn't be in business. And this is going to, you know, you know, so we got your Chuck in the Trucks, you got your Cheap Charlies that are going to have a hard time, right? And then we've got a lot of companies in our industry that, you know, like you said, are relying on this one thing or this magic bullet. And, you know, the best companies, the largest companies, as you know, the ones that have grown to hundreds of millions in our industry, all have some sort of a diversified lead mix in some way, shape, or form. It's not a one-trick pony. You know, they have several different areas so that if one slows down, they dump more money into the one that's going faster. And then when that one slows down, they look around and say, you know, what else can I change here to bring me to this, this next step, you know? So that's what I see happening big time in our industry. And, and those of us that are, that are relying on something outside of ourselves, we're going to have a tougher time. You know, it's like when we go back and we talk about, you know, a lot of people are talking about it in comparison to 2008, 2009. You know, and all these, these different, you know, the time frames over the years that have been tougher or easier to sell in. You know, the reality is, is that when the economy takes any sort of downturn or tip, the, the searches for non-essential items on the internet go down. That's just the proven fact of the way things are. And so that's where the inbound leads are coming from. We have to be able to reach the people that are planning on a project in the next year, and we have to move their timeline up with effective scripting. If we don't do that, we're going to just be sitting on our hands hoping the phone rings. And when it doesn't, what are we going to do? We're going to call Tony Hody Training and Consulting and say, oh man, what do I do now? I don't have any leads. And it's— and by then we're already too late into the—

yeah, we're gonna call— yeah, and they're gonna call you, and then they're gonna call me and G4, and they're gonna say You've been talking about past customers for 13 years. Sorry, I haven't done anything with it. I've not invested in them. I've not talked to them, but I need leads. So what can you do to help me? And we'll help them today.

Right.

And we'll help them. We started in the Great Recession, right?

And oh yeah. Yep.

Like, you know, past customers will buy again. Yes. So now I should say this. So we are talking a little bit of doom and gloom. However, both me and Megan know, know this is that the companies that she's talking about that aren't doing all of this stuff will actually have greater opportunity because they won't be part of the carnage. So if you're, if you're a client, Megan's, if you are coming to Accelerate, I said it Accelerate, I don't know if it was at the beginning, I think it was at the end. I said, look, you know, normalization is coming. And I am not going to let any of you, if I have anything to do with it, I'm not letting any of you participate in it because we designed that event. So it's all about the fundamentals. It's about stuff you talked about, profit model, pricing model, lead efficiency, lead generation, selling efficiency, and all of that. Important. So one of the things that you talk about a lot is efficiency, which is like, To me, efficiency is I got a lead. How good am I at moving that lead from a raw inquiry into an appointment, into an actual demo? How important is that whole process and what are some things that people are doing where they're missing out?

Great question. So a lot of times with the whole process of efficiency, you know, what I find is we don't have accurate data from moment one normally. And what I mean by that is is I usually get in with a company and we find out that every single phone call is not in their database. The only ones they're putting in their database are the ones they set.

Yeah, nuts.

And then they tell me they have 100% conversion rates and I say, no, you don't. And so the first thing to get very baseline is, look, there is a certain dollar amount that I have to assign to every call that comes into my business. There is a dollar amount that I am spending to make the phone ring. And we just talked about how inbound leads are slowing down. So with that being the case, it is 20 times more important if I'm getting less of these leads that I'm doing more with them. Right. And that's really the key. And a lot of times, you know, what I'm focusing on with my clients is these very basic things that you don't even know how many raw inquiries you have. Like, your database may tell you a certain number of lead forms you received or a certain amount of phone calls, but there times where you're getting phone calls and the customer's hanging up after 20 seconds and we just say, yeah, they just didn't want what we have and we hang up and we don't think about the fact that the owner paid for that phone call to come to the office.

Yeah.

And, you know, if we don't have a system and a script that will overcome some of those objections in the first 20 seconds, and I gotta tell you, with what we just talked about in terms of the normalization, the objections you haven't gotten in the last 2 years are about to happen.

Yep.

The other thing that's about to happen is, and I know we're talking about this and Accelerate will be past the holidays, but right now we're at the end of October. We're rounding this 2-month crunch for exterior home improvements. So November and December leads are traditionally hard to make in our industry because again, the inbound dries up. Some companies just say, you know what, we're just going to close the doors for a month and take a vacation. Some companies do that and it works for them. It's fine. But most of the time, we, the reason we don't sell in November and December isn't necessarily because we can't install. It's because we We don't know how to get leads.

Yeah.

We don't know how to talk to people in verbiage that speaks to them at this time of the year. We just try and continue to swing the bat with the verbiage we use the rest of the year. And around holidays, people's minds are elsewhere. So we actually have to speak to where they're at currently. Right. And so the next 2 months, I've been preparing a lot of my clients to start making phone calls that they normally don't make all year because this is the time to do it. And so with that, when going back to the question before about the efficiency, you know, when we get a phone call into the office and we set an appointment, We then have to be able to monitor exactly how many of those turn into an issued lead, because if it doesn't issue, it doesn't matter. Okay. Because I mean, it can go in the database and we can continue to call it back, but if it doesn't issue, it doesn't matter. So issued lead, and then we have to monitor how many of those demo, you know, because a lot of our clients and a lot of your clients too, they're setting only two-party appointments. They only want to run appointments where both homeowners are there. And so with what we issue versus what we actually demo, there's always a drop-off of somewhere between, I don't know, 10% to 20%. 20%. Good companies are, you know, 20% or less in terms of the fallout after issue. But you'll get a one-leg or a no-show or a repair or something people cannot quote. You know, it might be something that's truly not qualified, a non-landowner or something of that nature. If we don't have the scripting to catch those things on the front end, we're going to send our sales team on less leads to leads that aren't qualified.

Yeah.

And if you want to kill the sales team's mojo, go, give them less, and then the ones they are running aren't qualified.

Yeah.

Talk about massive carnage. You could lose your whole team, you know. And so we— so those things, like, sometimes we don't think about how those initial things on the front end affect the rest of the business and the mentality in the rest of the business. So, you know, too often I'll say, what's your process? Well, I, you know, we set most of the ones that call in. Well, most of— most of is a relative term. That means different thing to me than it means to you. So when you say most of them, do you mean over 50% because I wouldn't consider that a great conversion on inbound. And so, you know, we end up, we end up having a conversation about that. But it's, it's those metrics they really have to track and look at, or you have no business scaling. Because how do you know what it costs you to get the leads you need to add another salesperson? You have no idea what that costs you if you don't have those processes and those metrics in place.

Yeah, so one of the keys really next, next year and, and going into next year is really going to be all about efficiency and You know, and that's something you're, you're a master at and you're going to be discussing a lot of at Accelerate. You'll walk us through the process, what it looks like, how to accomplish some of, of these things that we've been talking about. And I guess between now and then, you know, because that's a few months out. So you've given us a lot of stuff to really get focused on. And so I guess if I, if I'm an owner and I'm looking to you know, these next few months. The good thing, I'll tell you what's going to help a lot of companies is their backlog. So backlog is going to keep your revenue going, which is great. But at some point, you still have to be out there making leads. That's what I was going to say. So what I am advising, we'll go back to this part. What I'm saying is that if you were used to— so here's something that's happened over the last couple of years where historically in this, in this industry, we've been at 8 to 15% marketing costs. And a lot of companies are, you know, they're still there, but a lot of companies pull back because, hey, we got so much leads, why do we need to spend money on marketing? So they did $5 million they spent 3% on marketing or 4% on marketing, falsely inflated their bottom line. And now what I'm telling people is, look, if you were at 4% now this year, budget 10% for next year.

Yeah.

What do you think about, what do you think about that? Like, are you advising people also make sure your pricing model and your profit model can sustain a 10, 12, 15% marketing cost?

Yeah, I mean, that's baseline. Yes. I mean, and then, I mean, really, if you want to grow and scale, you're going to have to spend more than that even. So it's, you know, in the, you know, and that's, you've got to look at that and you've got to decide what that looks like for your company, you know, because there are so many different things you could do with marketing. I mean, there's going to be some, you have to have a healthy mix too of long-term and short-term strategy, right? And that's, that's one of those things that I feel like people don't listen to. They're either really heavy on the, the idea of branding or they're really heavy on the idea of lead gen and they don't really see that it's both. It takes both, right? And so, you know, you, but you have to have leads coming in today to pay for branding tomorrow or you don't have any cash flow. And so that's, that's the key that so many people miss out on. You know, it'll be, well, we do all canvassing, we do all outbound. And I'm like, great, but eventually you're going to have to have a web presence. Like, that's going to have to support that in some manner. Plus, if you're canvassing and they look up your company and you have some ramshackle website that they don't, you know, know anything about you, or they don't think it looks professional, they're going to say, who are these guys? And then your canvassing budget is garbage. So, you know, it has to— both is the correct answer. We have to sort of pair long-term strategies and investments and bringing in repeat and referral long-term, right? And being able to build our brand over time, but too often everyone's focused on one or the other and they're not doing both. And so that's really the key is that we need to have— again, it goes back to the diversified lead mix to where we have different strategies that are going, you know, all over. If you look at the way that Tundra Land grew, you know, when Brian was, was still there, I mean, it's, it's so crazy the different types of lead mix that they had going on, right? And that meant that it doesn't hurt you if one falls off, if you have 18 others that are going, right? But if you have one and you're putting all your money on this one horse and then something happens and the horse trips and falls during the race, you're going, oh, I don't know, we really like direct mail. Well, then if direct mail was working for you, great. But there's going to come a time where you have to do other things too. And so I feel like sometimes our industry isn't very open-minded to making changes. In something they're not comfortable in, or owners feel like branding is expensive. And I don't know if I want to make the upfront investment and not see a payback in leads for 6 months. Well, if you're going to compete in the SEO market, that's something you're going to have to do. Right. Like, it's part of the—

Well, and it's the same thing. Yeah. And it's the same thing with referrals. It's the same thing with past customers, getting them to come back and buy more. We tell people all the time, you know, you're making an investment in the future. You're doing the right thing for your customers. You're getting reviews from them. This is, you know, what we're doing at G4, but then we're nurturing that customer along so that when they are ready, they're going to be receptive to your message rather than, you know, you didn't talk to them for 3 years. You never said thank you for the job. You never really, you know, you tried to muscle a review out of them. And 3 years later, now you're calling them up and saying, hey, you know, this is Brian at Brian Kaskavalciyan Window Company. Remember us? It's time for you to give us more money because we don't have leads.

Right.

It's going to work on a couple people, but it's, you know, it could— there's a much, much better strategy.

Well, and I had this question this week because, you know, again, a lot of our clients are the same. And so a lot of them use your cookie program for the follow-up after the install, right? Which I think is a great program. And I recommend it to people all the time. And so one of my clients said, oh, do you really— should we call past customers though, if we're if we're doing the cookie program, I said, yeah, they're going to be even warmer for you. Like, why would you not? Like, everyone that's cold calling their PCs has way more trouble than you're going to have.

Yeah, that's the whole reason you're doing it all is so that you can call them and you have a relationship with them. It's not about the cookies. It's about what the cookies represent.

Yeah. And when they thought about it, they were like, oh, wow, that makes sense. I'm like, yeah, you're just going to do that much better with previous customer calling because they remember who you are. This isn't the first time they've heard from you in 3, 4 years, you know, like a lot of companies do. Or I said, that's really, you know, the idea. And especially when we're dealing with most of our clients having multi-product line, like there's no reason they bought a roof from you today, they can't buy windows or siding or something else or a bathroom from you later. But I'll tell you what, too often I feel like we're really egocentric about this where we say to ourselves, well, they'll call me and they're, you know, they're ready. They're going to call. They won't. You know who they call? Google. And whoever comes up first wins. And you are, if it's not you, they're not going, you know, I don't think that was the guy we used 3 years ago. Yeah, let me find him. That's not what they're doing. They type it in, they say windows near me, and off they go. And so, you know, it's, we're not in the ages like we were 30 years ago, Brian, you and I are older. And so we can attest this when I say this in a group of 20-year-olds, They're like, what is a Rolodex? Customers used to keep a file or a Rolodex of all their trusted people, right? This is my furnace guy. This is my car guy. This is my— this guy. They just don't buy that way anymore. Now this is king. Yeah. And so we have to— we— if we don't— it's so funny to me because I've had my heart broken by calling past customers and finding out they bought one of my products from someone else. And I went— and at first I blamed them. Them. Yeah. And then when I took a good hard look, you know, who didn't— whose responsibility was it to stay in front of them? Was it theirs to stay in front of me? Probably not. So then I have to look in the mirror and say, well, I mean, you pretty much hung them out there as bait for the next—

Exactly. Well, that's such a great way of saying— I'm never— I might rip that off from you.

Absolutely. Go ahead.

Yeah, for somebody else. Yeah, for somebody else to come along and seduce and poach and whatever.

Whoever paid pay-per-click that day, Brian.

Right. Or they're sitting or they just happen to be sitting at home watching TV and—

Yep. Or little canvasser knocks on their door and they were better than you that day because you didn't do make marketing.

They were better than you that day. They were. That should be, that should be, that should be the name of your talk.

Fuck.

They were better than you that day.

I say that all the time. I say, well, if they won the sale and I didn't, they were better than me that day. I mean, they may not be better than me in the long run, but they might be better if they wrote the lead and I didn't. They were better than me that day. They were. And so, you know, you have to— and it's a hard truth that I'll say— they, they won. They were a better salesman than you that day. They—

yeah.

And so you think about it like that. Your past customers, they're all sitting in their homes. You know where they are. You know to get a hold of them. You know exactly that they're your demographic. Yeah, it's like we act like, oh, like, I don't want to— the most common reason people don't do it is I don't want to piss them off. Yeah, I don't want to over— and I'm like, okay, well, first of all, were they pissed off the first time they bought from you? Because, you know, if they bought from you, they weren't that pissed off. They gave you money. So there's that. So what would make you think that you coming back to check on them would piss them off. It's like when you're at a restaurant, do you get mad that the waiter comes back and says, hey, is the food to your liking? Are you happy with everything? Would you like some dessert? Would you like a refill? Like, no? Well, then same thing with you. They're seated at our table. We have to be able to, you know, stay in front of them in creative ways. And you're so right when, you know, calling them once or twice a year is okay, and you'll probably get some business. But over time, is that going going to create repeat and referral that comes to me. It's not in and of itself. I have to do other things in order to— because people only do what's in their own best interest. Yeah, customers are the same. They're not going to respond unless there's something in it for them. So if they see us taking and caring about them and they see these little like trust bank deposits when they get a little newsletter from us and they, they get a little box of cookies and then they get little email from time to time with a recipe or something that they remember. And then eventually we've made enough trust bank deposits that we can make a withdrawal when we want to come back out and earn their business again. So, you know, we go along that line, and too often companies just don't want to make the upfront time or the monetary investment in something like this that they absolutely should.

Yeah. So, yeah, otherwise I couldn't agree more.

Yep. Yeah. My phone's not ringing. I don't know what to do.

Well, look, Megan, I am super excited that you are going to be at Accelerate this year. I'm going to do another plug here for Accelerate. If you go to accelerateevent.com, accelerateevent.com, and just go to buy now or save my seat, something like that. That. Actually, I think I have a promo code too. You can save a couple more dollars if you put in, I think it's TWC23. I should probably verify that, but it's TWC23. But Megan will be there. Megan knows marketing. Megan's a badass. I'm super excited that you're going to be there. You don't want to miss her because she's going to have some amazing stuff for all of us. Thank you so much for being here. Give Dan my best.

I will.

Until next time, everybody, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and this is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a different way? Did it spark an idea or ideas that you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business? Business or your life today? I really hope so. If it did, I'd like to ask you a favor. Would you leave a 5-star review of the podcast? By doing so, you'll help other contractors find the podcast more easily so that we can help them achieve more success, wealth, and freedom. And before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. In fact, if you haven't already, make sure you go to thewealthycontractor.com and get your free copy of my latest book, The 7 Secrets to Becoming a Wealthy Contractor. Just pay shipping and handling, and I'll take care of the cost of the book. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan.