John Anglis - Ep. 57 - It’s NOT About the Price…

This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan. Hello and welcome to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. This is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group. And on today's episode, I am bringing back my good friend John Anglis. And John was one of our early episodes. I don't remember the exact episode. I probably should, but it was very early. And John has built a really amazing business in Connecticut. And I'm going to have him tell you a little bit about it. But let's just say he's basically gone from working 6 days a week, running just about every lead himself, making a decent living, to now creating a super profitable business that he barely works at. And so we'll get into what all of that means and kind of some of the ways and some of the things that he did to, uh, to get there. Now, John is going to be one of my special guests at our annual Accelerate Live event, which is happening February 6th and 7th, uh, right here in beautiful sunny South Florida. If you want more information about that, you can just go to www.accelerateevent.com. accelerateevent.com. So John, welcome back.

It's good to be back. Thanks for having me. Sure.

So last time we talked, or last time you were on the podcast, um, I think was in 2017. And so let's talk a little bit about what's kind of happened. What happened quickly, what happened in your business in 2017, and then, you know, where does it stand in 2018? I guess though, before that, we should familiarize everybody with kind of who you are, the name of your company, and that sort of thing. So why don't you just give them a quick little intro?

Yeah, our company is Carefree Home Pros in Connecticut. We cover Connecticut. We do go into Western Massachusetts a little bit. Been in business since June of 2000, so I believe it's about 18 years. And, um, yeah, that, that's that.

And what are— let's talk about products. What do you sell?

Um, primarily we're doing one-day bath remodels. We did, uh, windows and siding for many, many years and have transitioned over the last few years into baths. We still, you know, still offer windows, we'll do some siding, but Um, yeah, we, we doing quite well with the one-day bathroom modeling.

Yeah, great. So let's talk about, um, so your story— you have a really interesting story. So you started in 2000, and, uh, let's not go into the whole story, but basically it took you about, what, 15 years or so, 15 or 16 years to figure out how to get yourself off the road.

Um, yeah, I'd say 13 to 14. Yeah, we started to see some, some progress, uh, right around 2014, and then I think like 20-25% plus growth every year with me running less and less, uh, to present.

Yeah. So in 2018, um, I don't know if you want to share figures or not, but give everybody an idea of, um, I mean, if you want to share revenue, you can, but give everybody an idea of how many jobs you'll install this year.

Um, off the top of my head, probably 750.

Wow.

900, somewhere around there.

Uh, that's a lot of, uh, that's a lot of bathrooms.

Yeah, yeah.

As you can tell, you know, John doesn't get really excited about, about stuff. He's, uh, you know, very even-tempered. Um, to me, that's, uh, I don't think I can— I don't know if I can cuss on this, but let's just say I think that's pretty effing awesome. Um, John, you are the, uh, lowball cheap provider in your market, aren't you?

Absolutely not.

Uh, you are quite the opposite, aren't you?

Yes, indeed. We're pretty much pretty close to the top, I would think. Not at the top, but we're, we're pretty close to the top and climbing.

Yeah. And so it's not when you're out selling home improvements. Now, John just happens to sell bath, which I mean, that one-day bath, I was talking with somebody the other day that just started in that. They're basically giving the stuff away and they can't and their close rate's like 25%, um, John's close rate is significantly higher, and there's no way that you are going to be anywhere near the low price. So it's not about the price, it's about what— what is it about?

It's the perception of value. Um, it's literally not the price. Um, we have raised our prices for the last 5 years twice a year at an average of $500 a pop for the last 4 or 5 years, and our closing numbers are the same. And what that tells me is— the best way to put it is people buy when the value exceeds the price, and they don't buy when the price exceeds the value. So if you are not telling the proper story when you're selling whatever home improvement, if you're not building enough value then you're going to have a hard time with the value exceeding the price. So when we raise our prices and then we look at the numbers immediately after, you know, until the next increase, it's like, man, I guess we're leaving too much value on the table, meaning the value far exceeded the price. So we raise the prices again and our closing numbers don't change, and we're like, man, we're leaving more value on the table. It's kind of like In football, you miss a field goal, you left 3 points on the field. So when our numbers aren't changing, that means that we're delivering much more value than our prices. And that's why I said earlier, you know, we're close to the top and climbing, and we're about to raise the prices again because our numbers, like I said, the closing, the rescission, that's not changing. The only thing that is changing is our net sale per lead issued, which is up quite a bit from last year, which was up from the year before, which was up from the year before. Profitability numbers are way up, um, and revenue is way up.

So you and I have in common a, um, I said this the other day in our company retreat, um, we did our first, uh, first ever big company retreat. Everybody came in and I told everybody I basically had a zero tolerance policy when it came to, uh, profitability, meaning that we have to be profitable. I have a zero tolerance to not being profitable. Um, and you and I share that because there's no way you're going to do this without being profitable.

Agreed.

Yeah. And too many— I mean, part of the reason I keep saying this, and I'm gonna keep saying it over and over again, part of the reason why this podcast exists, part of the reason why all of the resources that we offer through The Wealthy Contractor exist. Part of the reason why I put on that Accelerate Live event is because too many people in this business work hard, work long, and don't make enough money. And one of the things about John and a lot of the other people that I bring on and that I'll have at our Accelerate Live event are doing this business and are very profitable. And so if they can do it, why can't you? Why can't we all? So let's talk a little bit about value, because I always like the value discussion because I absolutely live by that as well. The more value, you know, the more value you provide, the more you could charge, the better— in a lot of cases, the better the customer experience, and also in a lot of cases, the better the sales process. So what are some of the things that you do in your company to add value, to be worth more money than everybody else?

You know, the big one is really easy. Um, he or she who tells the best story has the best product. And if you don't know your product well enough, and if you don't tell the appropriate story. How, in other words, how is a homeowner supposed to know you have the best window, siding, gutter protection features company if you're not telling a story? You know, telling the right story to build that value. So that's number one. If you tell the right story, you're gonna build enough value. That story consists of not just features and benefits, that story also consists of You know, price conditioning, which we all know of. You know, a lot of homeowners, when they get an estimate from an average contractor, they say, I want to go shop. And what that means is I don't have enough information. So when you tell the right story, you're able to show the homeowner why your product is what they need. Like, why does it scratch them where they itch? Why is it better than everything else on the market? You know, and how does your product compare both quality and price? Price with what's on the market. When we do a one-call close, which we do a one-call close, and we're closing damn near 40% of the presentations we give, it's because when we're done with them, they're done shopping. You know, with price conditioning, they're shopping with us. Um, and telling the right story is paramount. When you tell the right story, people want your product. That's the easiest way to get somebody to buy what you're selling, is to make them want it. And the only way you're going to make them want it is if you tell the right story. And I think we do a phenomenal job telling the right story.

And telling the right story really falls into, um, one of your areas of expertise, and that is selling in the home. And if so, if anybody's new and hasn't heard the first interview that I did with John. Um, go back and find it. I'm gonna tell you in a sec, before we hang up here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you, uh, which number, uh, it's actually episode number 3. It's episode number 3. Go back and, uh, listen to that one as well because John will talk to you about how basically The way he started on this path was by buttoning up his sales process and getting himself off the road so he can work on his business and not in the business. So let's talk a little bit about sales process and sales people. I know that people are having a hard time finding good salespeople today. And I I like what you, um, talk about, uh, when, when people say this. So can you talk a little bit about— because you— because for you it's about the process, and if the process is right, then you can bring the right people. So can you talk a little bit about that and how you do it in your company?

Yeah, first off, I would say to people, this was a very difficult reality to face myself. Um, you know, we're all looking for that top producer, we're all looking for that magic man or that magic woman who can come in and who can turn things around. But you have to ask yourself, if you were a top producer, would you work in your own company? We've got top producers. We're not a huge company. In fact, pound for pound, we, you know, somebody asked me last year at the Accelerate event when they, you know, how much revenue do you do? We did about $5 million. So you must have what, 8 salespeople? No, I had 3, 3 or 4. But a lot of the talent we have, whether it's sales or marketing, if these people, some of these people met me 6, 7 years ago, they wouldn't be here. And I would still be lamenting, why can't I find that great salesperson? The reality is top producers, high-quality people want to know they're working for a company that's organized. They want to know they're working for a company with a great reputation, with a great product, who tells the right story to help facilitate sales, who can get the jobs installed. So many of us have probably had that person slip right through our fingers without realizing it. And then when owners get together, we're always hearing how hard it is to find people, etc., etc. But while we're looking without, we should be looking within, you know. Do we have the right setup, process, system, culture that can get and keep that right person. And I think that's something that we've gotten really, really good at over the last couple of years. And, you know, that's how we're able to find and keep top talent. The other thing I'd like to say on it, the top 1% of earners, I mean, if you're like a typical home improvement company, you should have salespeople that have the potential to earn well over 6 figures. So if you're gonna attract someone who's gonna make, you know, $100,000, $150,000, $200,000, we have a representative that's gonna make over $200,000, you know, it's hard to find those top producers. They say, why, as far as the top 1%, why are they in the top 1%? Because they're willing to do what 99% of the others, of the rest, won't do. So when you're out looking for a top producer, you almost have to consider that you're going to have to interview 99 people to find that one that you, you know, that's going to fit the mold, that's going to fit what you're looking for. Now, does it take you 6 years to interview 99 people, or does it take you 6 months? Does it take you 6 weeks, right? So if, if you go through that process, you find the person you're looking for, you plug them into your business and jobs can't get installed, or you don't give them the tools to succeed, or it's just everybody's disorganized, again, that top producer is never going to manifest as a top producer. They're going to be part of the exit, as you know, the merry-go-round. And again, we're all wondering, why can't we find that right person? So, you know, I think it begins within what, you know, what we're doing at our company to make sure that when we do attract them, we can keep them.

Yeah, well, and one of the things that you do as well as anybody I've ever seen is you have a system for these guys to be successful.

Yeah.

And I think that that's key because, you know, how many times— and this was a challenge we had too, was in this business, was we did not have a sales system. We did not have a sales process. And so when we tried to bring in salespeople, it just didn't work because they didn't have a process. They didn't have a system. But what you do and what you've done as good as anybody I've ever seen is you have built the system, you've refined the system, and you're never done with it either. You're always working it. But you teach everybody the same system. Everybody's working off the same playbook.

Agreed. Yeah, I mean, you know, the book The E-Myth was a great book, and it said— this was a turning point for me— is it said that 80% of businesses, or 90% of businesses that start, fail within the first year. And of those that survive, of the 20% remaining, 80% of those fail within 5 years. However, it's proven that a franchise is all but indestructible. So, your McDonald's, when was the last time you saw McDonald's go out of business? So, what we decided to do, you know, years back is come up with, like, we've basically franchised our business. We franchise, we came up with systems for installations, for marketing, for service, for installations, and each department passes the baton to the next. When I train a salesperson on our selling system, you know, the only way to get a salesperson— we talked before, the only way to get a homeowner to buy what you're selling is make them want it. The only way to get a salesperson to follow your system is to make them want to follow the system. And the only way you're going to get them to do that is to show them that it works. So if you bring somebody in and you have a method that works and you've got the numbers to back it, and even if there's running owners out there Running owners are not above the law. The law of attraction states we attract who we are, not who we want. So if you're an owner that gets the system and you, you know, here, do it like this, but then when you go on the road, you do whatever you want to do, what you're showing them is you really don't have to follow the system. What I did even when I was on the road is I trained it in the office. This is how we do it, step by step, 10-step selling system, and we test them along the way. So I train you on step 1, Right, I answer questions, review, then I give you a test. If you don't pass, you don't get the step 2 information. Do the same thing all the way through to step 10. When you train them in the office, then you take them on the road with you and you do it the way you taught them. And when you do it the way you taught them, even if you don't sell, you got really close. People come out amazed. Man, you said in the office that in this particular step, when I say that, they're going to say that, and they did. This is amazing. So when you go out and you actually make sales, if you take them out with you long enough to train them in the field, why wouldn't they follow it? You showed it to them in the office, you took them in the field, you showed them that it worked. Why wouldn't they keep doing it? And then once you do that, now you, now you're in a position where instead of managing people, right, you hire the right people, you don't have to manage people, you manage the system, you manage the numbers. Their numbers and production shows you where they might be missing, which step they need to follow up on, so you can focus on that, and you can train small sections to perfection. So that makes the salespeople better, but it also makes the ownership or management better. And that's really the secret sauce for us here.

Yeah, and it's— and it's, uh, and it's been working, and it just gets better and better every year. Now let's talk a little bit about you as the owner of the business Um, how, how often are you going into the office?

Uh, one, one day a week. I go in on Wednesday for, uh, department meetings.

Okay.

And, um, so one day a week, and the rest of the time I'm working, I'm working on Carefree or working with clients, you know, throughout the country, helping them develop stories, right? Product presentations, implementing training systems, helping out with marketing, and even business mentoring. Yeah, help increase profitability. But that, you know, between that and working on Carefree, that's what I do the rest of the time. Yeah.

So you basically— so what's cool about this, and, and this is, again, I'm going to keep going back to Accelerate because that's really what it's all about. Number one, it's about making sure your business is as profitable as it can be so that it funds your ideal lifestyle. And then also, really, you know, does the business work for you or do you work for it? So you used to work for it. You were its slave, basically.

Yeah, I owned a job, not a business, and my boss was a lunatic, right?

And so And so, yeah, so what you did was you turned that around, you turned it into a business, and that business now allows you the freedom and the opportunity to basically do what interests you. Yeah, what makes you feel good about you and how you want to spend your life. And that's ultimately the goal of business. I think, I think that's what it should be, um, because it absolutely is.

Because at the end of the day, it's kind of like when you define what your job is. People, when you start your business, you start business to make money, not to sell jobs. Somewhere along the way, people got the impression that their job was to sell, or, you know, I want to do $5 million, but they don't say, and when I do hit $5 million, I want to make this much money. So, the owner tends to be focused on the wrong stuff. To your point, you know, my wife and I love traveling. I'm in my mid-40s and we're empty nesters. We've been, you know, this year, you know, you said, what do you do with the rest of your time? I mean, I, you know, explain what I do work-wise, but I've been to Europe twice this year. I went two different times for two weeks each. We went to Punta Cana for a week, went to Mexico. Um, you know, traveled pretty well. Greece, yeah, that's another place we went. So, you know, the business is there for me. The bit, you know, the business is set up for, for to do what I needed to do to make sure that I can do the things that I want to do. Um, and like, life is good. I'm just saying.

Yeah. Is there anything wrong with that?

Absolutely not.

Are you making—

well, unless— I mean, I gotta say it like this, it really comes down to what makes you happy. You know, I mean, there's plenty of people out there that are happy being running owners. If you're happy being a running owner, there's nothing wrong with that either. But if you're a running owner who would love to say, hey, I wish I had a business like that, well, then there is something wrong with it. What are you doing differently? You know what I mean? If you do the same thing you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got, if not less these days.

Yeah.

But for me, I didn't, I didn't want to own a job. For, you know, I think being a business owner, being a businessman is a lot of fun. Working in the business, no one's going to work harder than you do as an owner. So if you're an employee in your business, you're working triple overtime. And if you look at how much money you're making, unlike most people that if they were real employees, you're not making time and a half or double time. So, you know, there's absolutely nothing wrong in my opinion if you're making the money you want to make and you're living the life you want to live, you're able to do the things you want to do, take care of your family, go on vacation. You know, work when you want to work, don't when you don't. I mean, what's wrong with that? As long as you're meeting your responsibilities and obligations.

Yeah, I think what happens is a lot of people— and I was like this for a long time, I'm not anymore— but I think a lot of people in business think that they have to put in 50 hours a week, they have to put in 60 hours a week. That it's not— I'm using it in, in air quotes— it's not right. It's not just that I only work one day a week and I make whatever, you know, I make this money. They have themselves programmed into thinking that this has to be hard, that this has to be long hours. Time away from my family. Oh, I can't imagine going on vacation. You know how many— I can't get over how many people I talk to that haven't had a vacation in 2 years, 3 years.

You see, the thing is, if I can comment on that, is there's a part of me also— I travel, I go on vacation, I have fun, and I put a lot of time in through the years. My wife and I like to travel, but I'm the type of guy that I can't sit still either. But there's a huge difference where if you have to work 65 hours a week running leads, overseeing installations, dealing with customer complaints, that's a, that's a high stress. But if you were— if you're more organized and you're, as a result of being more organized, and you're more profitable, let's say, and you can hire people to do certain tasks, nothing says when you're not on vacation you can't put in 40 hours a week. But what are you doing? Are you putting 40 hours a week on the business to grow it, to get depth, to get profitability, to get your salespeople the tools they need to put your company in a position to stay ahead of the game? Or are you out again dealing with customer service and dealing with getting it, chasing completion checks and, you know, setting up leads and things like that? So, you know, if there's nothing wrong also with wanting to work, but what I question is if you are truly wanting to be a businessman businesswoman, what are you working on, or what are you working in? I think it's a lot more fun working on the business. It's more profitable. And because I'm able to work on the business, I said that's an example of being more organized, where I can do as I want to do, and I get a lot more done because I'm more organized. And, you know, so I think there's no reason you can't have it all.

Yeah, and, and, and that's exactly right. I think that that's a very good statement. There is no reason why you can't have it all. The only, the only thing that's standing in the way of that is is your, is really your mindset around it. And, and, you know, I, I, I joke about this and I can only joke about it because I've, I've watched it happen with John. I knew John when he was, you know, struggling. You've always been good at making money, but you were working 6 days a week and really struggling to build a company, to build a business that worked independently of you.

It—

this did not come easy for you. I saw you hitting your— banging your head against the wall a few times to, to make this happen, and yet you were able to do it. And I say it with, with love and respect, if John can do it, so can you, the listener. You know, I, I, he, he, I, I mean, he's, he's a guy, and, and I, I would say, you know, he's, he's going to be one of my guests at Accelerate if you want to come and meet him live and in person and listen to his full presentation, which is going to be awesome. Um, and just see that he's, he's like, you know, he's one of us, and he just figured some things out, and he, he'll share those things with you, um, gladly. Um, but why can't we all have it like this? And so I hope that by introducing you to people like John— and John, I'm looking at the clock and I— we got to wrap up here— but, um, it's my hope that by introducing you to people like John and, and, and learning from what they've done that you don't feel like you've got to go and do this on your own. Um, John is a guy that you reached out for help, didn't you? You called people.

No, that's— no, we're pressed, but I'm going to give people an example I love using. Lewis and Clark walked to the Pacific Ocean from Missouri. There were no planes, trains, or automobiles, right? Because of what they did, now we do have the road paved. It's much easier to get to the Pacific Ocean. I'm amazed with how many people are insisting on walking to the Pacific Ocean. Yeah, me too, right? And I was one of those people. Uh, I was a great soldier. I was not a good general. I was a guy that, you know, move out of my way, let me do it. And I worked harder than anybody did. But my problem was I didn't know what I didn't know. And I had my company modeled after where I got my start. A lot of people They go from being an installations manager to starting their own business, and a lot of times they create their company to mirror where they came from. And if where you came from was that smaller business where the business owner was running ragged, now you become the next generation of business owners running ragged. The biggest advice I would give anybody, you gotta read the right books and put into action what you learn. You've got to rub elbows and spend as much time as you can with people who have done it. If I had done that earlier, I would have— it would have taken me a lot less than 14 years to do it. Going to Accelerate, going to all these events. I never read a book. I never went to an event. I never, I never did any of those things because I was full of myself. I'm a great salesman. I'm a great soldier. I'll figure it out. It took me way too long to figure it out. Again, it doesn't have to be that hard unless you insist on walking. So, the biggest advice I would give is you got to get out of your comfort zone and spend as much time as you can around the people who are where you want to be because you learn as much rubbing elbows with guests in events as you do from the speakers that are on the stage. And that's advice I would say would have got me there sooner is what I'm saying.

It's very well said. And to John's point, you know, I, when we go to these events, it's, it amazes me the people that are there, you know. It's the most successful people are there. They keep going over and over and over again, and there's a reason for that, and there's a reason that makes them successful. So, um, anyway, so John, um, Thank you. This was, this was good. I hope— I think, I think this episode hopefully is a little more inspiring for, for the listener. If you want to meet John, if you want to hear him speak about his company and some of the things that he's done and the practical things to do, go check out our Accelerate Live event. You can go to— again, I'll give you the website, it's www.accelerateevent.com. By the way, if you want, you can use coupon code wealthy and you'll get an additional discount on the ticket. That's happening February 6th and 7th right here in sunny South Florida. And, uh, John, again, thank you very much. I appreciate your time as always. Gotta have you back again, um, because there's so much more stuff that we could talk about. And, um, until next time, everybody, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan from G4 Marketing Group, and this is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. All right, so that's it for today's episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a new way? Did it spark an idea or ideas you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business or your life today? I really hope so. Now, before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. And a favor, I'd really appreciate it if you'd go to iTunes and post a review of this podcast. Let us know how we're doing. And finally, we started The Wealthy Contractor as a resource to help you, the home improvement entrepreneur, regardless of where you are on the wealthy scale. Get where you want to go. We want to provide you with the motivation, the confidence, the resources, and the tools so you too can live the life of the wealthy contractor. Now, the wealthy contractor is a place where it's okay for you to want it all. In fact, it's not only okay, it's encouraged. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group.

Mm.