Megan McGuire - Ep. 80 - There’s No Magic To It

This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan. All right everybody, welcome to this episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. This is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and I am excited to invite, or to have, not invite, I already invited her, to have Megan McGuire on with us today. Megan, welcome, thank you so much for being here.

Hi Brian, thanks for having me.

Awesome. So before I jump in with Megan, if you have not done so already, head over to thewealthycontractor.com where you will find resources resources to help you grow your business, to make more leads, sell more jobs, and make more money. So, thewealthycontractor.com. All right, Megan, talk to us. Tell us a little bit about your background. Give us like the 2-minute version of your story, and then we're going to dive deep on your areas of expertise. People listening, listen up, because everything that comes out of Megan's mouth is gold, so listen for nuggets. This call, I have a feeling that this episode will be loaded with nuggets. So Megan, no pressure.

All right. Yeah, no, none at all after that wonderful introduction. Thanks for that. You're welcome. Yeah, I basically got my start in marketing when I was 17 years old and I was telemarketing for vacation memberships. So what I would do is I would contact people and I would convince them to drive 2 to 5 hours to my campground in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and take a high-pressure tour of the facility. So once I started doing that, I found out really quickly that it was something I had somewhat of a natural gift at. And I also found out that a lot of people in that industry did not do that job very well. So I kind of saw very early that there was a huge market for learning how to set appointments in an outbound fashion. Worked for my first home improvement company shortly after that. I telemarketed out of the phone book, setting up window appointments and did some refis over the phone. And that company went out of business and actually bounced my paycheck, funny enough. And so I had one of those early experiences a lot of us do in the home improvement industry. But, you know, for whatever reason, I just hadn't had enough yet, I guess. So after that, later on, I wound up at a company in the Kalamazoo area that I came in as just a telemarketer and I was moved into to the call center manager position within about 30 days. The owner sat behind me every day and listened to every call I made and then decided, I guess, I was the one. So after that, I, I had been asked to take over a pretty, pretty new Sam's Club program where we would have a kiosk inside of Sam's Club. And we talked to members about, you know, doing home improvements on their home with our company. And, and that went really well for me along with the call center. And then I moved into the canvassing area where I learned how to build a canvas team. So during that time, we also conducted home shows and special events. And so I was there for about 3 years, built that company up from about $2 or $3 million to $10 when I left. And then I ended up at my final company and the current company I'm at, which is All Weather Seal of West Michigan. I wound up here in 2010, courtesy of the Tony Hody placement services. So it was an extremely good fit between the owner and I here. And we've grown from $1.7 million in 2010. This year we're on track to do over $10 million. So it's been a great fit and we have great company culture.

So, wow, that's, that's amazing. And I know that aside from coming in as the marketing person and really taking over marketing, you also ran— run the sales team. So you're kind of the marketing manager, the sales manager, and now you also run the place. So you're kind of the operations manager as well.

Sort of. My title is the marketing and sales director over the company. Basically, as I grew marketing, I put leaders into each department that run each department, and then now they just report to me. Took me several years Yeah. So it took me several years in the field to build that into what it is now, which is pretty much a well-oiled machine. And then once I got, you know, great leaders, I put them in place. And so I hold them accountable. And so recently I've taken half of the management responsibilities of our sales team. We have an 11-man sales force currently. My partner Leonard and I manage the sales team and I do a little bit of help with recruiting crews and you know, some operational tasks as well. So it's been a fun ride. I've had a little bit of everything in the business.

So, so I just want to point out one thing very, very early. Now, Megan is not the owner of the company, but she pretty much acts like an owner of a company. And you may have some equity that I don't know about, but for the, for the most part, you act like an owner. And so that's why I thought her, her advice and her experience would be very, very valuable. Now, One thing that I want to point out that she just said in all of that was looking for leaders to put into these positions. So the, you know, going way back to when Megan was hired, the owner was looking for somebody to help him with marketing. And Megan came in as that leader to do that. She proved herself, obviously. And then now they, you know, the job is basically to put in the right people in the right seats. Is that fair?

Yeah, definitely fair. I mean, that's, that's essentially what happened. And when I got here, we had a girl who handled marketing, but she was really more on the branding side of her marketing. I mean, she had, she had a degree and, you know, had some great experience in that area, but did not have outbound home improvement marketing experience. And so that's really what I brought to the table. And that is an area that they desperately wanted to, to grow and expand in. Because I think they saw that a lot of companies were going to doing special events and having a canvas team. And we just had a very, very small impact at that time. And, but yes, it's taken years, but you know, you bring people in, you build them up, you teach them the business, and then, you know, you teach them to run their department like it's their own specific little company.

Yeah.

You know, and that's, that's really what's made our marketing managers successful is, you know, when I came in, the way that my pay structure was set up was essentially that the department was my company. And the only way I'd make extra money is if we made extra profit. It. So, you know, it, it really taught me a lot early on, and I train all my marketing managers the same way, and they treat their department as if it's their business.

So beautiful. Now, you said, you said something interesting about the person that you replaced. You said that they were more of a branding person. So let's, let's start with that, because a lot of companies get— I want to be, well, I want to be kind here. I mean, they they kind of think branding is lead generation and it's really not. So can we talk about a little bit about the difference between branding and actual like lead generation?

Absolutely. So that's it. And that's a great question. And you know, I get asked that question a lot by companies that are a little smaller or newer in our industry and they'll say, well, we want to go to a show or an event and they just want us to hang up a banner. And I said, well, that's a, that's a great start, but I got to tell you, if you want to have money, to continue to invest in your branding, which is a very macro type of marketing strategy, you gotta have sales tomorrow. And in order to have those sales, you have to have leads. So, you know, I look at lead generation as more of the micro in a lot of ways, especially the outbound lead generation, because we work in a 48 to 72 hour window most of the time. And I look at branding as more of a macro strategy, which means, you know, over time people are going to know who you are, but you have to be able to fund that with sales today and tomorrow.

Yeah, so many business owners get hung up on the whole branding thing, and, you know, a lot of times it's not their fault because the advice that they're getting from, especially if you like listen to newspapers and the TV and all of those salespeople, they're not marketing people, they're salespeople. And so, you know, they want you to put your logo the biggest thing on the page, and, you know, and it's all about your brand, and, you know, that's All sounds like sexy, but branding doesn't make leads for the most part unless you're like Coke or, you know, you've been around for 100 years and you can spend hundreds of millions of dollars, quote unquote, on your brand.

Absolutely.

Yeah. As a small business, as a home improvement company, you're absolutely right. We need to make money like tomorrow. Just as an aside, if you don't mind, to me, you know, I always teach that branding is a byproduct. So upfront, what you want to do is everything you can to get the information, to get that person that raises their hand and says, hey, I'm interested, right? And then everything from that point forward is now a branding opportunity. So the way you answer the phone, the way that your people show up, the way that your trucks look, the way that your uniforms look, but it's a— but it comes after you get the lead.

Absolutely. Yeah, it really is a catalyst. The lead is a catalyst to so many other things, to so many others. And the reality is, as a small business, I mean, if you don't have— and this has been my experience and what I've seen with, you know, the amount of companies that I've seen go under in our industry— and a lot of them, what happens is we, if we hit a bump in the road with the economy or something happens, they don't know how to make leads.

Yeah.

So if the only type of marketing they have is, you know, posting a billboard and crossing your fingers and doing what I call post and pray. I'm going to post this ad and hope the phone rings. It's a mentality that, you know, coupled with other marketing strategies is excellent, but doing it alone and just hoping for the best, you really aren't in control of your own destiny. You're kind of the victim sitting around waiting and hoping that the phone rings. And while those are good strategies for a lot of companies, most of them need a plan for if you have to go out and make your own leads. You know, there's lead takers and there's lead makers, and the most successful companies I know do a good job of both, right?

That's really well said. You mentioned something else too that I thought was, was very cool, and I think a lot of people don't get, is the whole 48 to 72 hours. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Well, I mean, you can look at it from a marketing perspective when you're setting appointments, and that is, I mean, anything that really goes outside the 72-hour window. So for instance, if today is Wednesday, if I set it further out than Thursday or Friday, the chances of it canceling are 70% or greater. So if I don't have room on my schedule tomorrow or Friday and I put that lead on, sure, if they cancel, there's a good chance that my call center at this level can go back and get them and reset them and get them back on the board. But then we're incurring more costs on that same lead. So for us, it makes sense to really operate under the, you know, 48, 72-hour window in terms of getting leads on. And it works great for us. I mean, I've got a Canvas team out today and tomorrow the neighborhood that they're in right now, tomorrow look, look when I got in this morning, I thought, oh, we don't have enough leads. And by 1 o'clock today, they already had put 6 on for tomorrow. So, you know, that immediate gratification is really, I think, one of the things that made me the ideal candidate in terms of this position when I got here. Because, you know, the other person that was doing the marketing here, she was a great human being and great individual. She just didn't understand our type of urgency in terms of the marketing and the leads. So, you know, the fact that I did and I understood the farther we get out, the more chances are we're not going to have as many leads on the board. You know, we're pushing every every day for next days and same days. The other thing about that is the nature of that lead. If you talk to somebody today and they're willing to have us out today, the chances of it selling are greatly increased. People who are not making a purchase or, you know, and you can turn a lot of those people that say they're not, but a lot of people that aren't making a purchase aren't making room in their schedule immediately to see you on a sales appointment. You know, nobody gets up in the morning and says, I'd really like to have a window guy poke around in my bedroom and measure my windows and hang out with me for a while day. I mean, it's just not on the top of everyone's list. So if they do let you come over on the same day or the next day, the sale, the actual percentage of closing actually increases. So there's a couple reasons why it makes sense to stay in that window for sales and for marketing.

Yeah. So, so let me ask you, I want to back up for just a second. You said you came in, you saw the board, and you knew that, hey, we don't have enough leads for tomorrow. So a lot of companies kind of just, they just kind of wing it. They don't really kind of understand the numbers and how the numbers work. So, so tell me a little bit about that process and how you look at it. So when you say you didn't have enough leads for tomorrow, talk a little bit more about what does that mean?

Yeah, absolutely. Be glad to. So the way that we hold marketing accountable here is if we have X amount of salespeople We know that we have to have X amount of leads set per day for that amount of salespeople, which means I need all 11 salespeople I have to have 2 appointments a day. And then I need to have a good 4 to 6, even sometimes 8 backup appointments confirmed depending on, you know, the market, how far away each one is from the other, because we run about an 80 to 90% demo rate, which is extremely high in our industry. Very high. But, you know, last, last month we were 87.5% or something. But the point is, is that we always know if we know our numbers, shame on us for not preparing. So if we know that 20% of those leads that we run are going to kick, we got to be ready with another 20% so that, you know, if my salesman says, hey, I'm getting one-legged, or, you know, family emergency, I got a note on the door, we've got somewhere else for them to go. So, and that's part of, you know, what ends up making our operational costs, you know, a little bit lower, I think, than, than some companies. Because we think of it, and I hold the marketing managers accountable to, hey guys, we need 444 appointments set in the next 2 weeks. Because if a nebulous outbound leads, you have to account for some that are going to cancel. So if out of those 444, 50 to 60% are actually going to issue, which means confirm and get on the board and go to a salesperson, I need them to set, overset, to make sure we compensate for the deficit. Then they also have to overset in case any fallout once the salesman gets out the field. So, you know, we know exactly what our number is in order to, you know, say, okay, we've got enough for tomorrow. Even with the fallout, we're going to end up with everybody pitching to a point.

Okay, so this happens often on this podcast where a guest says something like you just did for about a minute or two that if we turned off and stopped the episode right now and the listener went back and listened to what they said, said again and maybe 2 or 3 more times after that to understand it. This was just one of those moments. So I would say to everybody, rewind, rewind right now back like 2 or 3 minutes and listen to what Megan just said again and again and again until you get it, because she just gave you one of the big keys to making a business, a home improvement business, work. Because you know your numbers. See, in a lot of— so I had a conversation, Megan, yesterday, and you're no probably stranger to these conversations. So I had a conversation yesterday with somebody that was asking me for my advice on whether or not they should start doing TV advertising. And so they mentioned who they were going to work with, and I said, oh yeah, they're great, great company. You know, you know them, Ron Sherman, great company.

Sure. Oh yeah. Yep.

And so I asked, so I started to ask the owner questions like, you know, because all he wanted to know was, well, do you like these guys and should I work with them? And that was what he was expecting me to answer. I didn't answer it right. I said, yeah, they're good, but hold on a minute. Let me ask you a couple of things. And we went through, I mean, I was on the phone with him for, it should have been a 10-minute call, right? Yeah, they're great.

Go ahead.

That's what most people would have said. But I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna do that to my clients. I want to dig. So I said to him, I said, okay, well, you know, how much are you spending now? What's your lead cost? How many salespeople do you have? Are they running a 10-step system? Is it something that is the same repeatable thing over and over and over and over again? Are you giving— so we ran through all of the numbers. And because I said to him, I said, look, I could tell you, yeah, great, go with TV. And, you know, basically what it would do if you did it right is it would double his business in the next 3 months. But the question is, can your business support that? Can your business not only financially support it, but do you have the salespeople for it? Do you have—

for sure. And I'm— yeah, there's so many aspects to that that are so, so true. And I ask them every day.

Yeah, you know, I asked them about— the other thing I asked them about was I was, I was asking, tell me about your profit model. So I said, you know, TV is going to cost you at the beginning especially, it could cost you 15-18% of of revenue? What's your current gross margin? You know, so he gave me a number. It was high. Like, it was— the gross margin actually was not the high number. The cost of goods sold was the high number, right? And so I said to him, I said, look, this is all great, but dude, you got to fix your profit model first, then get an understanding of this and this and this. And then, you know, and so what you just, you know, laid out for us is how a well-run company thinks about their marketing efforts. So in your case, you have 11 salespeople, so you need 22 appointments per day. That's it. It's 20 confirmed, right? Confirmed.

So minimum. And that's— but, but we need more for backups.

Well, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. And that's why I think what you said was just so, like, valuable in that most people don't think about— well, some are gonna fall off. If you know what that number is, like in your case, you know exactly what that fall-off number is. So now you know, okay, I need I need to have X number extra that are waiting in queue that I can just pop in in case another one, if in case one falls out. Because if I have 11 salespeople, if I have 4 salespeople, whatever it is, each salesperson must run 2 leads a day, no more, no less. 2, right?

Yep, absolutely. 10 leads a week, 5 days a week for us. But yes, absolutely. And I like what you said there when you were just a second ago when you were diving into, you know, your friend and the— your client and the TV, the TV model. It's the same thing with canvassing and events. You can start a fantastic canvassing program. You can go out there and write 20, 30, 40 leads. I mean, you can write as many leads as your little heart desires, but if you don't have the processes and systems put in to process those leads, to manage those leads, to verify those leads immediately from the field, to confirm those leads, to know exactly what the fall-off is going to be, to know exactly how many canvassers you need to get exactly how many amount of leads that you need from in that department. If you don't know any of those things, you can start a Canvas team, but you're going to— your margins and your marketing and lead cost is going to be way out of whack and you're not going to know why. So it's kind of like the old solve for X, which is, you know, we have to know, first of all, if we're going to run this, if we start the same thing with us, if we start a new marketing endeavor. So we don't do a lot of TV, but we did get into TV this last year. You know, we have to know exactly what our cost per call is going to be. We have to know how many we're going to convert. We have to And you know, those metrics are what marketing departments and home improvement companies live and die by. And it's very important to have that information or any project you start won't be as great as it could be.

So, let's take a step back. Let's go back to when you first started with the company and it was $1.7 million. Okay? So, today you're well— you said it, I think you said a well-oiled machine.

Okay.

And what we've talked about so far is pretty sophisticated and complex. It's, it's simple. It's not easy, but once you get it, you get it right. But my question to you is, how do you start? Where do you start? So listening to this right now, where do you start?

Yeah, that's a great question. So when I got here, because there was marketing already in place, I said, I'll work as an employee if you want for a month, because I knew I was going to, you know, advance past that, but I really needed to get in and see what they did first off to see where they needed to improve and what could grow the quickest. And so what I did is I just started going out with the canvassing van. And so I went out every day and knocked doors and I wrote all my own leads. And after, I don't know, I think it was probably 2 or 3 weeks, the owner says, okay, so you're right. You're getting like 10 demos a week knocking doors. And he said, and we've never had that. So what's, um, what's changed? And I said, well, you know, I'm, I'm writing these leads and I'm, I'm excited and I'm trying to motivate everybody else out in the field too. I said, and so there's a couple of them I think have some promise. And he said, but I did notice that you're writing a ton of leads, way more than 10 demos a week. He said, and a lot of them are falling off. And I said, well, yeah, it's because your confirmation department doesn't know how to confirm a real Canvas lead. And he said, oh, well, can you help with that? And I said, absolutely. So then my job became go out with Canvas in the morning, go in the call center at night, and within a week I rewrote all their scripts for outbound telemarketing for sweepstakes, and then I fixed their confirmation process. And then we just start putting people in place. So, but you know, it's a prime example of what we just spoke about. And what I had to do first is I had to get baseline and get out in the field with them. This wasn't a job that you can do from the, you know, comfy leather chair at the office. You have to get out there in the field and see what they're dealing with in order to design a program that will work. And so, you know, I did that and then we moved into expanding the show and event program after that.

Yeah. So a lot of, a lot of what you do is make marketing where you are essentially going and knocking on doors. It's face-to-face lead generation, also called— and you just called it this a little bit ago— a nebulous lead. Can you talk a little bit more about what is a nebulous lead and how do you make nebulous leads work? Because look, if you're— there's no reason to be slow in a home improvement business because there are plenty of doors to go knock on. But most people don't know how to do it, or they don't know how to do it. So can you talk a little bit about that? About what is a— what's a nebulous lead? And then what are some things that, you know, what are some recommendations you have about how to make nebulous leads work?

Yeah, absolutely. Great question. And that kind of goes into the last thing that I had said. And then once I fixed the call center processes, then it was, hey, the salesman can't sell any of these leads. And I said, I understand, you've never had a real canvassing program. So yeah, we got to drill and we got to rehearse and we have to go through and some things have to change. And, and that's because of the nature of the nebulous lead. So the nebulous lead, if anybody doesn't know what it is, at least this is what it is in my mind. Brian, correct me if I'm wrong. But what I've always thought of it as is it's someone who isn't necessarily set on making a purchase for their home in the next 30, 60, 90 days. This is someone who, you know, has a rough idea that it's something they probably should do, but they really don't have a plan set in place of shopping. So this is the opposite of a home show lead. This is the opposite of Google SEO lead. This is the opposite of the TV lead. Normally TV leads can be somewhat nebulous depending on what kind of special you're offering. But, but essentially these people want to take an estimate for one of two reasons. Number one, they know they have to do it eventually and they'll take an estimate for planning and budgeting purposes. Number two, it's convenient, nice and easy because you're already in the area or you're offering some type of incentive or special. And so people will take the appointment because your marketing staff, if you train them right, should be junior closers. They should be out there selling appointments the way your sales team is out there selling the product. And the nebulous lead, when a salesperson gets on a nebulous lead, if they've never run them before, they will immediately say, these leads suck. They met me at the door. They told me they didn't need anything. They meant to cancel. The kid at the door was so nice yesterday. They just couldn't say no. They went to their favorite festival and there we were with a prize wheel and they just got bamboozled into an appointment. And if we don't teach our sales team how to handle those on the front end, they get their teeth kicked in. Pitch rate goes in the garbage, close rate goes even down further. If we teach them though, that if they do a much stronger need building in the measure step and the survey in the beginning, any of those leads can be closed. And quite frankly, the fight with those people is always on the front end. If you can get in and earn their trust and show them how they need something, they generally aren't getting 50 other estimates like the home show leads. They just kind of say, huh? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we didn't know they were this bad. Holy cow, man. I guess we do need to do something. You seem like a great company. Let's just do it. It's also an impulse buy, which statistically means it's at least 20% higher ticket. So that's why the nebulous lead is actually a great lead. I think all leads have pros and cons, but the nebulous lead, the fight with the customer is usually on the front end and the home show lead, which is the shopper or the internet lead, the fight with them is going to be on the back end in the close. So, you know, people only have one fight in them. You're either going to find it at the beginning or the end. And, you know, a lot of the lead type has a lot to do with that. So, but your sales team has to be equipped to handle nebulous leads or all of a sudden in their mind the lead sucks versus that they need to actually get better and the salesmanship has to increase.

Wow. So again, we can go on for 2 or 3 hours just on what you just—

we probably could.

Yeah. So what percentage of your business right now falls under the nebulous category?

65, 70%.

65, 70%.

Oh yeah. Yep. We pick up another 15% in previous customers, which you and I have spoken about how much we both love previous customer leads.

Oh yeah.

And then I'm getting, you know, 15, I'm getting about 20% from inbound through internet, you know, and then home shows, obviously in February, March, and April in our region, we are so packed with leads we can't move, but the rest of the year shows and events, they're all nebulous leads. I mean, they're just like the canvas leads or even worse. I mean, the canvas lead, if you hit neighborhoods where, you know, you've recently completed work, we're hoping that that customer has seen our trucks and our signs. When we show up, they'll at least have a, you know, somewhat of a thought that we've been around before based on us doing work in their neighborhood. But the event lead, fairs, festivals, that sort of thing, you know, that's going to be just as nebulous as a canvassing lead. So, yeah.

So the, so I guess what I'm trying to help maybe help the listener with is that these quote-unquote nebulous leads, knocking doors, doing, you know, anything that's really face-to-face, there is a process for it, right? Your, your process works in 50 other companies around the country, right? It's not— you don't have something that's a magic formula that only works at All Weather Seal, right?

Correct. Yeah. I mean, And, you know, I'll hear that sometimes when I go to conferences, well, that wouldn't work in our market. And, you know, I got to tell you my experience and the experience of every other company that I have good relationships with in the United States, which is, you know, probably on the 50 to 100 different company range. And Mark, you know, when it comes to that sort of thing, we are completely bought into the system and process we use and it works at many companies. And then we've just made small tweaks that make it work for us in terms of our schedule. Or, you know, our specific system. So we use, we use the, the Tony Hody methodology, and we've just sort of, we've made it an art form. I mean, when I tell you our appointment setters are literally junior salespeople, they are selling appointments. They 100% believe that because they are. And when they truly buy into that, they, they realize how critical and crucial that their, their job is with the company. And so it's really about a culture and an atmosphere and the way that you train and the way that you lead and in order to get those departments, you know, running to that, to that extent. You know, our guys in marketing and our girls in marketing, they know their, the system and they know the scripting, or they're never even allowed to go out in the field unless they don't know. If they don't know the presentation, like they can recite it like their address, they're not even allowed to go to an event, get on the phone, or go knock a door because that would be us not preparing them properly, you know, to be as successful as they can. So you have to have a process in order to to help them be successful.

Yeah. So, Megan, this has been awesome. I'm looking at the clock and like I said, I mean, we could keep going for a couple hours. You got to come back. I got to have you come back.

Oh, sure. Absolutely. Anytime.

Because there's a bunch of stuff that we didn't even get to, but I think that this is a good place to stop because I would say to everybody that's listening, go back and listen to this a couple of times because when you hear Megan talk about how this business works, there's no magic to it. I've said it before, I'm going to say it again, successfully leaves clues. Look for them. They are all throughout this episode in this interview with Megan. And this business is about— and this is the conversation I had with the guy yesterday— this is a math business. You have to know the math. Then it's process and it's system and it's scripting and it's training and it's rehearsing and, you know, and it's looking at what are the results and then, you know, benchmarking those results and putting them against your, you know, what your standard is, what your plan is, what your budget is. It's not rocket science. None of this stuff is easy, but it's— there is a system for it to make it work. Megan, you could find Megan on Facebook. Just go to Megan Knows Marketing, right, Megan? They just go on Facebook, Megan Knows Marketing. Go and follow her because she's awesome, as you all could see. And I've seen her speak a couple of times. And after the last time, I said, man, you have got to come on the podcast. We have to have a conversation. And you really delivered more than, than, than I expected. And I, I thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

Well, thanks. Thanks for having me. And I appreciate the value you bring to everyone. You know, not only do I listen to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast, but, you know, many of my marketing managers and a couple of our salespeople too. I encourage them because there's so many, like you said earlier, golden nuggets to just, you know, be able to scoop up. And that's how I've learned what I've learned over the years. And that's listening to podcasts like yours, reading books, and, you know, attending seminars with like-minded people.

So, yeah, there's no need to do any of this stuff alone. There's plenty of resources out there. There's people out there to help you. And yeah, there's, there's no need to go do this on your own. Well, again, Megan, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And those of you that are listening, I'd love to get your feedback on this episode. I told Megan before, I don't know if this is politically correct or not. Sorry if it's not, but I was really excited because she's only the third woman that we've had on the podcast. And I was telling her I'd love to have— I'd love to have more because I think that there are many women out there that are just killing it in home improvement that we've got so much to learn from, but they tend to kind of hide. And so I hope to go and find some, some more of them. But you are awesome, and I look forward to the next time we speak. And for everybody listening, again, go to thewealthycontractor.com. Check out everything that we've got there for you. And until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and this is The Wealthy Contractor Podcast. All right, so that's it for today's episode of The Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a new way? Did it spark an idea or ideas you you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business or your life today? I really hope so. Now, before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. And a I'd really appreciate it if you'd go to iTunes and post a review of this podcast. Let us know how we're doing. And finally, we started The Wealthy Contractor as a resource to help you, the home improvement entrepreneur, regardless of where you are on the wealthy scale, get where you want to go. We want to provide you with the motivation, the confidence, the resources, and the tools so you too can live the life of the wealthy contractor. Now, the wealthy contractor is a place where it's okay for you to want it all. In fact, it's not only okay, it's encouraged. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group.