Mike Michalowicz - Ep. 64 - Design Your Business to Run Itself

This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan.

All right, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. This is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and I have got a return guest, Mike Michalowicz. Mike Michalowicz, if the name is not familiar, he is the guy that wrote the book Profit First. We're not going to talk about Profit First today. You can go back, there's another episode, I forgot what number it is, but me and Mike talk about Profit First. By the way, I was telling Mike um, before we started the recording that just over the last few months, I've had so many people come up to me and say how Profit First, the, the, the concept and the practice of it, the actual implementation of it has really changed everything for them. And, um, so I love hearing stuff like that. And I know Mike loves hearing stuff like that too. So, um, I shared that with him. If you are not familiar with the book Profit First. When you're done listening to this, not right this second, when you're done listening to this, go buy Profit First. Today we're going to talk about Mike's latest book, which is called Clockwork. And I got a copy of this book a few months ago and I basically tore through it. It is so damn good. So it's, uh, Mike, welcome. I'm, I'm the one that's doing all the talking, um, but you are here You can jump in at any time, but basically what, what Profit First is— so I talk a lot about, Mike, I talk a lot about people, process, and profit. Those are my big, my big 3 things that I talk about. So obviously Profit First covers profits, but one of the areas, as you know very well, hence the book, that people get hung up in in business is process. How do I create a process to, as it says on the COVID of your book, design your business to run itself. So that's what we are going to talk about here today. So let me start with this. What made you write this book?

So thanks for having me on, Brian, and it's good to reconnect. I, I found that there's different forms of what I call entrepreneurial poverty. And what entrepreneurial poverty is, at least how I define it, is the day you start your business, your friends, acquaintances that don't have a business, they look at you and think you're wildly rich and you have all the time in the world. Like, they literally think you're sitting on a beach drinking Mai Tais as your business is this cash ATM. The reality, of course, is the polar opposite. Most entrepreneurs' businesses at startup, and for the entirety of the business, is a life of struggle. No profitability, no money left in our pocket, no time for anything. We sacrifice our family and friends. We just work our tails off. So with Profit First, I wanted to tackle that first issue. When we have permanent profitability to our business, when we have a predictable level of income for ourselves as the owners and bonus checks coming to us from our business— and I believe any business can do that quickly— when that starts happening, we have this confidence about us. There's no more panic and survival check by check. But I realized there was another problem which I believe now is more even insidious than not having profit, which is the lack of time. And many entrepreneurs follow the method called the superhero syndrome. We feel compelled and necessary to save the business over and over again, to swoop in and salvage a customer that's threatening to not pay us or even sue us or something and swing in and prevent that employee from leaving and swoop in and fix that. It's this constant method of carrying the business on our back. I think we're not in business— I'm sorry, we're not in life to support our business. We are in business to support our lives. I wrote Clockwork specifically to free that, that form of poverty that is a lack of time. That's why I wrote the book.

Yeah. And what's interesting is, is I was, I was telling you too, we just did our big event. It was last week. And I always start I always start with, why'd you go into business for yourself in the first place?

Right.

Invariably what comes up? Time and money, right? Time, money, and freedom.

Yep.

And the crazy thing is, is that we end up having less time and in a lot of cases less money than we did before we started the business.

That's the irony. It's sickening. It's sickening.

It's terrible.

That's the old thing. That's where my dream becomes a nightmare. And so, you know, the day before we start our business is, I think, one of the greatest days of our lives. There's anticipation, excitement, there's grand vision. We picture that moment where we buy that boat or whatever our dream thing is, the car or thing, or going on a wild vacation with our spouse. We have the vision. The next day, it turns to instant panic, like, holy crap, I don't have enough money, I don't have enough time, and then it becomes this slog. So it's from excitement to panic to just the slog, like, is this really what my life has reverted to? And that slog, that, that, that stuck in the mire can happen for years, decades, right? And then that's where it becomes a nightmare. We actually— this business that we dreamed about, we actually start to resent. And the funny thing, Brian, is Fixing that, making that nightmare back into a dream, can happen, I believe, like in a snap of the fingers. I think that we actually get 95, I don't know, 99% of the business right. We're attracting prospects, we're delivering our services, we have some customers who, or maybe many of them, that are raving about us. We do have money flowing through the business. There's just these little parts that need to be addressed. We're not keeping any money, that's profit, And that's very fixable. We're not having any time because we're carrying the business on our back. It's very fixable. So we are very close to the dream, but because we're continued in this slog, this difficult period for so long, it's just become a nightmare. And many of us just kind of throw up our hands and say, I guess this is what business ownership is. It just sucks.

Yeah. And the whole point of this podcast is to for the listener to not let their business do that to them, to attain the time and money and whatever freedom means to them and whatever time and money means to them. Every— for everybody it's different, but this is all about living your, your best life. And ever— all of your books are— that's what they're all about. And I, and I gotta say, I mean, A part, you know, part of the reason why I have you on, and I'd love to have you on like 10 times because we could just talk and talk and talk, is you actually solve the main problems, right? You're not just writing this, this book about, oh, wouldn't it be nice if this and that, and then all these complex solutions that nobody's got time for, nobody can figure out.

Yeah, I get so frustrated when I read a book and it's just theory. I mean, I get it, but I'm like, what do I do? I understand what we're looking to achieve. So what I do with Clockwork, my other books too, is get to the root, most simple action we can take that will have the greatest impact. You know, if someone does Profit First, will they master their financials? Will they know how to read income statements? No, but that's the 2% or whatever I don't care about. All I care about is getting permanent profits in your pocket, and there's only a few things you need to do. With Clockwork, it's the same thing. Will you have these sophisticated SOPs and this, this, uh, strategic document planning system? No. You will take care of the fundamental things that will have radical impact on extracting yourself from the business and having the business run on automatic. And I'm not saying this out of like arrogance or that I'm pontificating. Like, that's what I need. I am like a really simple guy.

I, I— oh yeah, I can't—

like, complex thoughts make me go mad and I, I start drooling and lose attention.

Yeah, you and me both.

Yeah, it's maddening. So I need stuff that's really simple, really visual. Yeah. So I really write these books, quite frankly, to fix my own problems, um, and challenges and find that I'm not the only entrepreneur struggling with these things, right?

So let's dive into Clockwork: Design Your Business to Run Itself. And I guess probably is the best place to start the 4 Ds.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So the 4 Ds is, puts our kind of a diagram on how a business grows. These stand, each D stands for a transitional stage of the business. And the entrepreneur, I would argue, needs to navigate to the highest level while the business continues to manage all these elements of the business. So let me explain what they are. The first level or the first fundamental stage of a business is the doing phase, a business, or stage. A business must be doing work that derives benefit to the customers. You know, it's the services we provide, it's the equipment we sell. That's the doing. But also any activity that sustains the business to allow it to deliver our services and products is also part of the doing phase. So the marketing, the invoicing, that's all doing. Those are all doing activities. The next phase up is called deciding. And as an entrepreneur starts out, if they're a solopreneur, often they're doing 99.9% of their time in doing work, sending out quotes to customers, delivering the service, and repeating the process over and over again. The next level up is deciding. Deciding is where you bring on that first 1 or 2 employees. But, um, I should say, and the first day of their employment is like you found someone that's bearing sliced bread. They actually will do the invoicing for us, or they'll go out and start doing some of the technical work. But very quickly we realize they have a lot of questions. How do I install this piece? How do I handle this part? How do I invoice? How do I sort this stuff out? They come with, to us, with all these questions, which we then must decide around. And the trap here is we become a, well, there's a new goddess named Kali. It's a female figured head and all these different arms. It's like one head with many arms. And that's what we become, this one mind controlling the entire business. So the emotion in the beginning is like, wow, these people are doing the work I'm telling them. Very quickly reverts to, holy crap, I hired idiots. Can they not figure this out? How come they're so dependent upon me? And then we can't get our work done. So many of us will revert back to, screw it, I'm just gonna do all the work myself, which brings us back to the doing phase, which prevents the business from growing. Sadly, about 90% or more of small businesses will never have more than 3 employees because the owner continues to make all the decisions throughout the entire organization. Therefore, it's prohibited inherently in its growth. It cannot grow. One mind, many arms. The entrepreneur must elevate to the next level. The next level is called delegating. Sadly, many people say they're delegating work when they're actually deciding about work. They're task rabbiting. Delegation is not the assignment of tasks, it's the assignment of outcomes. This is where in the deciding phase where I'm giving tasks, I had this gal that worked here, her name was Jackie. I wanted her to do invoicing. I said, Jackie, do invoicing. And she come back with this incessant stream of questions. That's task rabbiting. Delegation, I said, Jackie, it's important that we bill our clients timely and accurately. It's important for us to build timely so that we collect our money accurately, so that they are serviced appropriately, fairly. I'm like, do you understand what we're looking to achieve? That's the assignment of the outcome. She would say yes and explain back to me why it's important. Then I would say, we have a best practice. Here's our invoicing practice. But anytime you have questions around the process, you have a problem you face, you are required to make decisions that ensure we deliver bills timely and accurately. So what we have, what we do in the delegation phase, Brian, is we're assigning the decisions to the employees and enforcing that. So when she came in, said, Mike, I have a question, I said, no, no, no questions. What's your decision? Now, I think a lot of business owners understand that conceptually. Maybe some people are doing it, but there's one more component of the delegation phase that most entrepreneurs miss out completely on, and this is the most important part. It is supporting decisions. What I mean by this is supporting all decisions. So if an employee makes a decision to move us toward the outcome that we've agreed upon and it's a bad decision, we still have to give them a rah-rah speech and say, you know what, good job. We didn't get the outcome we wanted, but the fact you made a decision is awesome. You're my type of employee. Go back in there. Go do it again. That's what true delegation is. The assignment of outcomes and the support of decision-making by our employees, not ourselves. And that moves us on to the highest level, the final D, which is called Designing. Designing is where we have clarity on the outcomes we want for our business, exactly what we want our business to achieve, to experience. Um, it can be the numbers you want, the revenue and so forth, whatever it is. Then looking at where we exist in our business today and making strategic decisions to choreograph our resources to achieve that outcome. Now here's a big thing about this. Like, my employees, I can say, listen, I want a $10 million company. Everyone, we're going for $10 million. Isn't this exciting? To be honest, for my employees, who freaking cares? I mean, $10 million, $10 million gets me a boat, but what does it do for them? So when I say choreographing resources, it's being very— it's having a very intimate understanding of what our colleagues want to achieve. I have one, one colleague here, her name is Amy. Amy simply wants a job where she can walk to work, and when her husband— he travels a lot— comes home, or her kids come back from school, she wants to be there. So she needs ultimate flexibility. So I tell her, hey, we're looking to achieve a $10 million company that provides you ultimate flexibility. Now Amy's on board. She's getting what her dream is, and it aligns with the corporate dream. That's what a designer does. And we as business owners need to throttle ourselves from doing work to designing the outcomes for our business.

I love, I love how you said with the delegating part— I'm going to jump around a little bit— but the delegating part, you're assigning outcomes. That's right, assigning outcomes. You're telling them this is what needs to be the outcome. And right when you said that, I thought of a couple of things here that happened recently where I wasn't clear on my, on the outcome that I wanted. And I felt, and, and, you know, I decided that I wanted it like this. I gave it to somebody, but I wasn't clear on what the outcome needed to be.

I mean, could you imagine, could you imagine you have a sports team, you know, like kids, like say a kids team and they're going to play soccer, right? Popular with young kids, but they've never played before. They don't know the rules. They're kindergartners. Could you imagine not telling them where the goal is? You're saying, okay guys, go. You know, some kids are kicking balls around, you know, in different directions. Other kids are picking daisies out of the ground. No one knows what the hell is going on. And listen, that's even when they're coached well, they're under that experience. But if you don't tell them where the goal is, forget it. Or the basic rules, forget it. And And believe it or not, that's exactly what we're doing with our business. We're not telling our employees the outcome we want, what we want to achieve, therefore not giving them the ability to navigate around the obstacles that present itself. They just try to do their job. But we're very unclear what their job is and we're extremely unclear on how they can be successful at their job, which is achieving outcomes.

I think another way of saying this, this, Mike, and correct me if I'm wrong, but these are basically different stages that you're going through as the business owner.

That's right.

Doing stage is where you're basically, you're doing everything. Everything relies on you.

Yes.

You're selling, you're doing bookkeeping, you're doing hiring, you're, you're running around trying to take care of everything. You're wearing every hat. Designing, you're basically doing very little. Your, your job is to orchestrate where you want the business to go. Put the right people in the right seats to get the business where you want it to go and be very clear about, here are the outcomes that, that we want.

That's right. You're doing very little in the business, yet you're doing something that's the most significant part of the business. It's clarity on where we're moving this. You know, one great analogy I think would be Jeff, Jeff, Jeff Bezos, right? The founder of Amazon. Like Jeff Bezos, when we order something on Amazon, he isn't running to the warehouse and packaging up our shipment. We all know that. Now he's thinking about what's the next strategic decisions Amazon can make. Oh, you know, the introduction of Echo and their voice command equipment was a strategic decision that I assure you Jeff Bezos was involved in. Now does he still do some work? Does he still do sales? Occasionally. I mean, if there's a big strategic sale happening, Jeff Bezos is at the head of the table. So we always will do some doing, but as we grow our business, we need to divert the majority of our time to the design work, the strategic thinking, and the direction for our organization to achieve those outcomes.

So here's the big question. How do you do that? Yeah, go from one stage to the next. Yes, kind of the million-dollar question, isn't it?

Deliberately is how you do it. And I believe actually any business can do it within a year and a half to 2 years. And the reason is, as, as I shared earlier, I think for any business that's listening in right now, if you're making some kind of revenue consistently, that means you figured out all the fundamentals of business. Now the process is simply to empower other people or other things to do the process. So we have to start the extraction. Now, one thing that I think people get stuck on is they think that one day the business will automatically be in a position where we can be the designer of outcomes. In fact, there's a fabulous book I encourage people to read, which I'm sure you have, Brian. It's called E-Myth by Michael Gerber. Oh yeah. Which says move from in the business to on the business. That's the concept we're talking about here. The challenge though is as people digest that, they say, oh, I have to work in the business so much so that makes enough money that one day it will happen that I don't have to work in the business. And I just sit back and make it— it makes money for me. And the reality is it isn't like flipping a switch here. This is a throttle. We need to go through an extraction process to get you there. So step 1 is to know the outcome, uh, where we want the business going. Step 2 is to keep on removing any doing work from ourselves and signing out to other people. And how we do this is account for our time. I mean, make the effort for the next 2 weeks to track how you spend your time. Don't try to think about it and say, well, I think I spend about an hour a day on Facebook. No, it's not an hour, pal, it's probably 5, you know, like don't do that. Actually track it, then categorize the work. That's the big part people miss on. So you track the work you do and then you put one of the D's next to it. Is this doing something? Is this deciding, meaning people are coming in and interrupting me and I'm answering their questions, maybe even email, or am I delegating? Or am I designing to get a real understanding of where you are? Then we need to start assigning these tasks out. The, the old school process was by doing SOPs. And the reason I say it's old school is because it's no longer effective. An SOP was where I would document a process on paper, create a book for it effectively, give it to someone else and tell them, follow this script. And I actually used to do SOPs. Jackie was one of my first victims, if you will, for my SOP. She was doing our shipping for us, and we ship a lot of books out of here. I spent a good few days writing up SOPs. I took pictures of how the package should be created. I documented the entire process of how to enter an order into UPS, a shipment order, and stick the label on and everything. At the end of these 16 hours of excruciating work, I had this beautiful document. I gave it to Jackie and said, here's your script. You're now doing shipping, just follow this to a T. She came back in my office about a minute later and said, uh, Mike, I was on step 3 and, um, UPS just updated their website. Like, none of this stuff is working. And I'm like, oh my God, are you kidding me? And the whole SOP was irrelevant. Here's the problem with SOPs: technology is changing so quickly that many documented systems are no longer applicable the second they're produced. Plus, Writing one takes an inordinate amount of time, and reading one is a distraction. Most people don't have that attention span. So we need to move to capturing. Capturing is where you're doing an activity that you're going to delegate to someone else and you record it. Well, I'm saying if you're doing something on a computer like order processing, that shipping I was doing for UPS, I just use screen capture software. Loom is one that is popular now that's free that we use. We record with Loom the activity. I voice over as I'm doing an actual order. I'm voicing over what I'm doing. I give that to Jackie and say, Jackie, here's the process, the best practice. Follow this process. If it's something that's not on computer, we just use a smartphone to videotape, uh, the activity, or I'm pointing out pieces and parts of what we're doing. Maybe just use a voice recorder on our phones to record some kind of communication. Then you give that to your colleague. They follow the process. You now, you know, you've unloaded something. But here's the next step, is require that this person doing the work records another video teaching it, their own video. The reason is the best student in every room is always the teacher. I know Jackie will have mastered a process once she can adequately teach the process. That's why When she gets the shipping, which she now does, she was required to create the next video and actually found out better ways to do things because I delegated the work to her. She improved the outcome and has recorded the new video, which now Jackie does the process. But I know if Jackie decides to leave one day from our office, we've captured the process she's doing. We can give it to the next person. That's how we start peeling the stuff away from ourselves.

I love it. It's not that hard.

Not that hard.

Loom is— how do you spell Loom? L-O-O-M?

That's correct. I think it's loom.com, but you can just Google Loom and find it. It allows you to record your screen, I think, for up to 10 minutes totally for free and distribute it. And I'll tell you, if a video takes more than 10 minutes, it's not— it's not explained simply enough, you know. You got to break it into smaller chunks.

Yeah, that's interesting. We've started doing that. I don't know how long ago they started doing it here, but this is one of the ways ways that we do it, but we also do the documentation and all of that as well. So you talk about one of the things that you talk about in the book, and I'm just like running through as you're, as you're talking, I'm running, I'm running through the book. And one of the things you talk about is the QBR.

Yes.

So what, tell everybody what the QBR is.

Yeah. So as we start peeling this work away from ourselves, you'll find that you as a leader of the organization have a function that's the most important function you're doing. And if we look at the entirety of your company, there is a singular function that's the most important. Now, the QBR stands for Queen Bee Role. This is something I derived when I was studying beehives. Kind of weird, but I like to study things outside the business space to find established models, if you will, in nature that work well. We can translate back into the business space. Well, I found out that beehives are extremely efficient in how they scale, how they grow their organization, if you will. And you've seen it yourself. You see one bee flying around a window one day, and the next day there's this massive hive there. How do they pull that off so quickly? Well, they follow a very simple rule structure. It's actually only two simple rules. Rule number one is they realize the most important function of a beehive, what its survivability and therefore thrivability depends upon, is the production of eggs. Bees die very quickly. Depends on the species, but some bees live like 6 weeks, other ones lucky for 6 months, but that's the longest most bees could live. Therefore, they need to be constantly producing, spawning new bees. They do this through eggs, you know, the production of eggs. So every bee knows the most important role is the production of eggs. Now, it just happens that in a beehive, there's one bee that produces eggs, She's called the queen bee, but every bee knows to protect the production of eggs. Now, we're gonna find this is true in our business too, but the one thing I don't want people confusing is thinking that there's a singular queen bee, if you will, person for your business that's the most important. In fact, the queen bee in a beehive is expendable. If she's failing to produce eggs, she will be removed— not so kindly removed, but she'll be killed— and then a new Queen bee will be spawned. It's the production of eggs that matters the most. So rule number 1 is what is the most critical function in our business? And I'll give you a real quick shortcut to find it. Rule 2 is once that function is humming along, no pun intended, once it's humming along, then go do your most important work. So the rest of the bees will go out and collect nectar and they'll heat or cool the hive using their wings. They'll do different things, but only as long as eggs production is never compromised. So we translate this to business. I'll use an example of FedEx, and the reason I use FedEx is everyone recognizes that brand. It's a global brand. Is we— if we look at FedEx, we can determine their Queen Bee role very easily. You simply ask, what is the biggest commitment or promise they make to their customer base? Now they make many promises, but what's the singular most important thing that FedEx does? And what it is, is delivering packages on time. That's their big promise. If it absolutely, positively needs to be there tomorrow, FedEx will deliver. When we figure out what the big promise is, and I would say for everyone listening, Brian, for yourself and myself too, we do many things for our customers, but there's only one thing that can be the most important by definition. We have to determine what that big promise is. Once we know our big promise, we peel back the onion one layer and say, what's the singular activity that makes that promise reality? So if we look at FedEx, FedEx promises to deliver on time. The one activity, the doing is always a doing level. The one activity that delivers on that promise is logistics, the movement of packages. Therefore, that's their queen bee role. That's the production of eggs. Every employee knows that if FedEx's logistics are compromised, the entire company is compromised. FedEx can't say tomorrow, you know what? Let's focus on customer service. Let's be the most friendly organization ever. And, you know, screw package delivery. Like, who cares about the logistics? You know, now packages aren't being delivered on time. Will that compromise FedEx? Yeah, it probably put them out of business. Headlines: FedEx could care less when your package arrives, but they're nice. You know, they're gonna go out of business. But FedEx knows that. They protect the queen bee role. And every year it gets threatened. Every year around the winter holidays, Christmas and so forth, the package demand skyrockets on FedEx and UPS and all those companies. What does FedEx do? FedEx says, hey, you managers behind the desk, get out in the truck, start delivering logistics. Hey, we need extra staff, part-time work at our distribution centers to move packages around logistics. They protect it, and therefore the business thrives. So the challenge I have for everyone listening in right now, Brian, what is for your company the big promise you make? The singular most biggest— most biggest is not even a word— but the biggest promise you're making to your customer? Once you identify that, peel back one layer and say, what's the singular activity that we do that most provides that promise? I know there's many things that do it, but what's the one most important? That's the queen bee role. That's the thing that we need to protect in the organization. And you as the owner may be doing the work for now. We got to refine it down that you're only doing that work. But ultimately, to have a business that runs itself, we even need you to remove— to be removed from that. And that business needs to— that component, that QBR, needs to come along by the support of other employees, not you.

Awesome. Well, Mike, I know we're up against clock here and we could probably keep going and maybe we could do a part 2 to this, but that'd be fun. But I hope that listening to this, everybody, you've got to go get the book Clockwork. If you go to Amazon, it's only like $1,000 to buy the book, and it's worth every penny. Profit First, also, if you go to Amazon, it's like $1,000. It's worth every penny of that, but it's probably on sale this week. How much is it? How much are they like?

You have $17. A used copy is probably a penny.

So yeah, don't buy a used copy, buy a brand new copy. 17 bucks of each book. But in this book, so one of the things I got to, I got to tell everybody about this. Chapter 10, page 217, is called The Four Week Vacation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now in this chapter, which is relatively short, Mike lays out how to set yourself up for a four-week vacation. Why a 4-week vacation? Going on vacation. But then it gets even better. 18 months out, here's what you're doing. 16 months out, 14 months out, 10 months out. Step by step how to do it. Simple terms. Just that alone, just that one chapter alone is worth the price of admission. But, you know, look, Mike's not going to get rich off you buying a book. I don't make anything with you buying a book. But here's the deal. You follow what it says to do in this book and you will have a business that runs itself. And ultimately, the goal here is to have a business that serves your life, that serves you, your family, your team. And so that's why I'm pushing this so hard. And, um, I think that's it, Mike. Anything else? Where can people find you? Where's the place to get books? Where can they Hear You— well, Hear You Speak is probably on your website. By the way, Mike, if you get a chance to see Mike live, I'm not just saying this to blow smoke, this dude is one of the best speakers you will hear.

Thank you, bro.

He is really, really good because it's all about stories. You make it all real.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love—

you make it all real.

Yeah, as much Interesting, I went through speaking coaching and I continue to do so, but I remember 15 years ago, a speaking coach told me something that changed it for me forever. He said, you're not a speaker, you're a performer. And I was like, okay, and that's where it landed. So, but to find out more about me, my website's mikemichalowicz.com. Here's the shortcut, 'cause Michalowicz is like impossible to spell. Mike Motorbike, that was my nickname in high school. I've never driven a motorcycle, ironically, but Mike Motorbike. Go there, I'll bring you to my website, all my books, there's chapter downloads for free. I'm a blogger, I'm a podcaster, that's there for free. I used to write for the Wall Street Journal too, that's all there. So mikemotorbike.com is the place to get started.

Yeah, and I'll put a link on our, on our website also, gfourmarketing.com, because they'll be able to listen to the podcast either on website or wherever they listen to podcasts. Okay, and then they'll get more information about Clockwork and work that I think you guys are doing, workshops and stuff around this, which everybody should go to. And again, you know, if you can, if you get an opportunity to hear Mike speak, go, because he's really good and gets the point across. Mike, thank you so much.

Thank you, brother.

I appreciate your time. Gotta have you back again. There's a lot more stuff that we can talk about. For everybody that is listening, until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group, and this is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. All right, so that's it for today's episode of the Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a new way? Did it spark an idea or ideas you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business or your life today? I really hope so. Now, before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. And a favor, I'd really appreciate it if you'd go to iTunes and post a review of this podcast. Let us know how we're doing. And finally, we started The Wealthy Contractor as a resource to help you, the home improvement entrepreneur, Regardless of where you are on the wealthy scale, get where you want to go. We want to provide you with the motivation, the confidence, the resources, and the tools so you too can live the life of the wealthy contractor. Now, the wealthy contractor is a place where it's okay for you to want it all. In fact, it's not only okay, it's encouraged. So until next time, This is Brian Kaskavalciyan with G4 Marketing Group.