020 Interview w Chris Vermeulen, Author of "Asset Revesting"

Hello and welcome to the Consistent Profits podcast brought to you by Inside out trading and Brian McAvoy, where the focus is on consistency, because when you have the consistent part down, profits become easy. Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to the Consistent Profits podcast. This is brought to you by Brian McAvoy. That would be me of Inside Out Trading. Today, I'm really excited to be interviewing Christopher Moulin of the Technical Traders. It's a longtime colleague of mine. We've known each other for years. The guy's got a lot going on. He's like a continuous innovator. Been doing really excellent things for a lot of people, and it had an interesting last several years. So, Chris, thanks for being here, man.

Hey, thanks for having me, Brian. It's. It's good to catch up. It's been a while.

Yes, it has. Yes, it has now. So everybody knows Chris. He's been helping traders for quite a while. He's a long time ago when he and I first met. His main thing then was the golden oil guy, and that was a big focus of his. Over the last few years, he's been more and more with the Technical Traders, where he's really been expanding the different ways that he's involved with markets and helping traders and who he works with. And so he's a really versatile guy, covers a lot of ground, very sharp. And again, we've known each other for a long time. He's just playing a good guy. And as we're going along, if you know anything resonates with you, make sure at the end, when we're talking about how to get hold of him, that you do well. Also, I have the link in the description down below. Make sure you go and connect with Chris. He's a good guy, and if you like what he's got to say and you think he can help you out, definitely connect with him. He's a good guy. One of the. One of the, you know, ones in the trading space that has a high level of integrity and genuinely cares about his clients. So he'll take good care of it. So, anyway, Chris, let's go ahead and jump into it again. So good to see you. You're looking good and I know you've been busy. So what's. So what's, you know, what's been going on lately with you? I know you've been, over the last couple years, you've been, you know, getting more and more on, like, you know, the audit or the video news channels and contributing on the, you know, the various news sites. So, like, how Many are you on now? I know at one point I think you're, you're, I mean you're on at least a few. But how many are you on regularly now?

Oh, I don't know. I don't know, 20 or 30 or so different channels easily. I think I've broken maybe a thousand different interviews and podcasts. I mean, you name it. Oh, it's, it's, it's great though. I mean, I mean the big reason I'm kind of trying to get out and share stuff is because I am just like you said, I'm very passionate about trying to help investors. And you know, I started, I started getting in the markets when I was 16, in high school, did a stock market challenge, learned from Larry Williams about futures trading. And I kind of done the whole thing. I've done all styles of trading and I found my sweet spot and I was the golden oil guy at one point. Before that I was Traders Corporation. Before that I was reaction trader.com. i mean I, I literally, as I learn in my styles of trading change. I kind of evolve what I offer because I don't want to do stuff that I, that doesn't fit my style really. Traders and investors, you've got to do something that your brain works like, understands, likes it fits your lifestyle, fits how much time you have, fits your stress level, your capital amount, how much money do you have? So, you know, my services have slowly evolved. It's always based on my same core strategies deep down of identifying market trends using technical analysis. But I'm at this stage now where if you, you know, if you've got a lot of capital and you want to protect it and you want to profit from, doesn't matter which way the markets go. That is kind of my core focus. And I think there's bad times, tough times coming for investors if we have a big market financial kind of a re evaluation event. And so now is that like right now I'm just trying to warn and let everybody know, like you have to make sure you've got something to protect your capital. And I do have a, I think a great solution that, that can allow people to protect themselves and profit from chaos in a very, very low volatility, super slow, controlled way. And so that's why I'm just trying to get out to the world because to me there's, it's Murphy's Law, the worst thing's going to happen at the worst possible time. And there's like more people near or retired right now that have a lot of Capital. And if this market flips and goes into a massive nosedive like a 2008 financial crisis, a tech bubble, it's one of those events. Those are stage four technical declines that I talk about. And they don't happen often, but when they do, they are, they are deadly. And I just want to let people know, like, there is a way to avoid them. There's a way to actually profit from them without doing anything crazy or high risk. In fact, it's way less risk than doing nothing. So that's why I'm trying to get out and share it. And I just, I don't want to see the average investor who works her entire life get absolutely burned with the buy and hold strategy or think they need to trade like mad men to make a lot of money. I mean, passive is a killer. Active trading, aggressive trading is a killer. I'm right in a, kind of a sweet spot. I don't know if I'm a trader or an investor. Investors think I'm too, I'm a bit too active. Active traders think I don't do enough. I'm like, all on my own. Right. It's like I'm trying to convince two sides. I'm like, come to the light. So that's kind of where I'm at.

Yeah. Well, speaking of which, I mean, that, that was one of your drivers for writing your book that you just published, right? The Asset.

Yeah. Book.

I know you talk about, you know, the thought processes that you're using and, you know, some of your, you know, some of your strategies and that kind of stuff. But you also kind of talk about your thoughts about why this is necessary right now. Right. As far as, you know, like, different. You have to look at the market differently. As far as, you know, we can't, we can't assume that, okay, yeah, things have been the way they have been. I mean, things are going to continue the way they have been for the last several years because we've already seen like earlier this year with the, with the bank failures and stuff, and of course, you know, the interest rates going up where they hadn't been in years. Freaked everybody out. So what do you see as some of the other things going on that are, you know, the big warning signs for everybody? It's like, okay, we may need to kind of approach things different, differently than we have been with old, you know, just buy and hold stuff.

Yeah. I mean, if we were trying to look at stuff from a kind of a technical standpoint. Now some people glaze over when they hear technical Analysis. If you're a super pass, they're like, I don't want to even go there. I don't get it. Like, technical analysis isn't that complicated. You can make it really complicated or you can look at it from a very high level, really straightforward. Stan Weinstein wrote a book, how to profit from Bull and Bear Markets. He talks about four stages. I read that book many times. I use the four stage analysis, analysis all the time. It powers my strategies of what direction the markets are in. And more or less, he talks about four stages. There's a stage one, which is the market at the bottom going sideways, doing nothing. Stage two is a bull market, a big rally phase. Stage three is where things get really choppy. Sectors are really good, other sectors are really bad. Commodities are moving, some are crashing, some are rallying. It's a very difficult time to make money in the markets. And then a stage four is a financial reset. And those are the four stages. And the money, the big money, is made in a stage two bull market. And a stage four decline, well, most people get wiped out in a stage four decline. It actually provides unbelievable potential to those who can take advantage of it because the market falls about seven times faster than it rises. And if you see the storm coming and you've got a strategy to capture just some small safe sections of that, that kind of free fall, you can, you can do really well. So where we are now, I think we're in like this stage three topping phase. There's a lot that goes into it, but from a really high level. Most sectors have already had their big run, like the growth stocks, technology. They kind of really topped out in 2001, February. A lot of people don't really realize it unless they look at their portfolios and they're holding those. They realize, yeah, my portfolio topped out like two years ago. Even though we've had a good done in 2023, they're still suffering. And the other thing that comes into play are these other cycles of when certain commodities come into favor. And we've had the precious metals do very well earlier this year. Gold is still holding right up near the highs. It's one of the last sectors or the last commodities to do very well before the stock market collapses. And so is crude oil. And crude oil peaked out last year, 2022, it was on fire. It's the exact same setup we saw in 2007, 2008, oil peaks first starts to correct. Gold and miners do well for a while, then they start to correct. So there's A lot of technicals coming into play that are saying, you know, we're coming into a stage four decline. And I say they're dangerous because there, there's been several studies, they have different numbers, but in 2008, 2009, a one year window, over 6,500 people committed suicide directly linked to falling stock prices. So people don't realize how deadly this is going like that, that we could potentially go into. Not only does it create people, potentially kill people, but it, I mean if it kills 6, 6, 500 people, how many marriages and relationships has it completely destroyed? It is very, very powerful. The whole emotional side of the markets. I have an infographic that if somebody was to go to my website and scroll to the bottom, join my free list. They download this PDF. It's just one pager and it shows the emotions that investors go through. And it is, I mean, if you know what's happening. As a technical trader, we have two big waves of exciting like the bull market phase. We have belief, we have got confirmation. We're excited, we're thrilled, we're euphoric. When we're just making money hand over fist, the average investor feels the same thing. But when it comes to the other side of the chart going down, they have like compl. Decency, then they're in denial. There's no way it's hap. We're going into a bear market again and, and, and I mean it turns into panic, chaos, depression, all that stuff. But a technical trader, we actually see, we have that exciting wave on the downside. We're like, oh my gosh, it's starting to break down. We've got like, you know, proof, we've got a thrill, you know, euphoric while, while it's crashing. So anyways, there's, there's these angles of the market that once you understand the mental game of it and you understand the stages, you have a really clear view of how to attack these markets. And the biggest problem right now, and you probably know this is trying to get people to be, you know, most people are reactionary. They don't do anything until something bad happens, right? We need to be the. For people to be proactive. And if you were to see these charts and understand the emotions that go with it, then you can step back and be like, I don't want to go through that. I see it coming. And so I'm trying to like mentally prepare, say like, listen guys, you need to have a game plan. You've got to understand what's coming on. You got to understand the potential pains. But it's so hard for people to want to do anything with their emotions. They don't like the self discipline, they don't like to talk about emotions. They don't want to take courses or listen to, you know, stuff on emotions because it's painful. You're fighting yourself every day as a trader or an investor and it's not fun. Nobody wants to deal with their emotions and, and do things that is outside their comfort zones. They'd rather ride with their emotions. So I mean, we're in this just difficult phase in the market where people are complacent and they're not going to do anything, they're not going to react until they're already losing their shirts. And I mean, I've seen this cycle happen so many times over the past, you know, 25 years. It's, it's painful. But I'm just trying to help as many people as possible because it's going to be really gnarly, I think, this time.

Oh yeah. Well, you touched on a couple of things there that I'd like to expand on a little bit. You said some people, you know, when you bring up technical, technical analysis, that their eyes just kind of glaze over. But one thing that I learned, picked up on a perspective that I picked up a long time ago, and I'd like to hear your perspective on this as well, is that really when we look at the charts, of course we're seeing, you know, the charts and it's all, you know, he's using the word technical. I'm looking for another word to use. But anyway, it's, it's kind of like it's not really human, it's, you know, computer related and along that line. But when we look at the chart actually what we're seeing is behavior in, of people because the markets are people. And to, you know, to a certain degree, you know, computer algorithms, but it's still programmed. And so, you know, the reason that we have an advantage as traders is when we see certain patterns appear or, you know, certain things showing in a chart that lets us know, hey, there's something going on here, that there's some kind of a, an emotional response that's happening and we can, you know, get in at the beginning of that and it gives us a window of predictability because humans are predictable. And so, yeah, you know, we might be looking at charts, but the charts are showing us what's going on with the people in the markets. And so like you're talking about, you know, with the four phases and everything. Yeah, we can say technical analysis and we've learned to use it as a tool, but it's still, it's dealing with the human nature of the markets.

Yeah.

So it's just giving us another way to have insight into it. So what are your thoughts on all that?

Oh, for sure. So price charts are really just the emotions of, of participants for that asset. Are they excited about it and buying it hand over fist? Are they kind of taking a breather? They just bought a bunch. So chart patterns have specific character characteristics. Some of them are bullish or positive, other ones are bearish. And to me, it's no different than looking at. You could look at somebody you don't know and if they're having a bad day or they're angry, you can tell by looking at their facial expressions that they're not happy. Something bad's gonna go down here if we stick around. Right. Or you can tell if they're really happy and excited. The charts are the same. It's just like the face of the company. You, you can tell if people are happy holding that or if they are not happy. And, and so that's what the, the charts to me are. You, you know, once you see a bullish chart pattern, the odds are it's going to go higher. Trends are more likely to continue than they are to reverse. So you got to be able to identify trends and whether it's up or down, it doesn't matter. As a technical trader, we could really care less which way it's going and we just take advantage of whatever price trend that is. The key is finding an asset that's fluid, that moves nicely. I don't like really volatile stuff. People are naturally drawn like bugs to one of those zapper lights. They want bitcoin, they want all these tiny stocks, they want stuff that's popping and dropping on news and they get sucked into all this chaos. That's like the stuff I don't even want anything to do with. Give me something that moves a little slower, a little more fluid, has nice cycles and patterns and you can put a lot more money to work. You can grow your money in a nice, stable, consistent way and, and do it very predictably going forward versus stuff that you could wake up and it's down 10 or 20%. I mean, you know, so many assets move that quickly and people don't realize. You don't need fast moving assets to make a lot of money. You just need to grow your entire account a couple percent every few months by the end of the year, you've compounded. You've got that 8 or 15% return. You've only done a few trades and your whole account has gone up versus trading a whole bunch of different stuff in and out. I mean, the reality is like, passive investing. Buy and hold, to me, is super dangerous. You're going to have a painful roller coaster, massive losses. You have no control over your future in the near term. And then you got really active traders. And the stats are over. 90% of active traders lose money. The more they trade, the more they lose. And, you know, you got to find that sweet spot. And that's kind of where I am. I'm in the middle where it's like barely trading, but it's active investing. And I always try to explain the markets. It's like the ocean. When you look at the big picture, is the tide going up or is it kind of changing trends and is it. Or is it going down? And so once you know if the tide is going up, you're like, oh, we got a rising tide. I'm going to focus on assets rising. I'm not going to do anything to the downside. And then you think of yourself as like. I think of myself as like a surfer floating out in the ocean, just waiting. Like, we're literally waiting cash, like 30, 40% of the year. And people. That blows people's minds. Like, why are you wasting sitting in cash? I'm like, well, I wait for a beautiful set of waves to roll by. We hop on that asset when it's crystal clear, we can see it, it's controlled. We ride that wave and we know when it's starting to break. We can see the technicals, the internals for that asset breaking down. And we start peeling off or taking partial profits and moving our stop up. And we only catch five to 12 waves a year, but we do it with our entire portfolio in a very liquid big etf, whether it's the index or the bond or a currency etf. And I mean, we do exceptionally well with really low volatility. But people want the noise. They feel like they need to trade. They have to me, they have just the wrong perception, the wrong expectations from the market. They think they should make 30, 50, 100% a year. They need to swing for the fences. I mean, it goes against every bone in my body. I mean, I used to do that. I used to provide newsletters for that because that was me. I'm not in that phase. I'm like, no, I want to protect my lifestyle and Grow my wealth. Not risk it. Risk both of them by. By being volatile. So, you know, as I've matured and built kind of the way that I want to be, my lifestyle now, I'm shifting gears, and that's where I've been the last couple of years, is really trying to change gears and get kind of get away from really aggressive traders because that's just not my passion. And I don't. I don't. I don't do that anymore. So I don't know if that answered your question or not, but.

Yeah, no, you did, and well, and very thoroughly, which is cool because you're absolutely right, though. And there are different depths of ways to look at the market. You can look at what's going on now and kind of, kind of a tight focus with, you know, the timeframe, or you can, like you were saying. Yeah, step back and kind of look at the whole ocean. It's like, no, I'm not worried about the waves right now. I'm kind of looking at the horizon. I'm waiting for the good, really good waves.

Yeah.

So any idea? It is kind of cool. As we age and mature and the marketplace as a whole and the population as a whole, it's kind of. It's been interesting to watch this, the evolution of the whole trading space over the last 20 years as things have gone online.

No kidding.

Yeah. It's been a pretty. Pretty interesting ride. Oh, one thing I got to ask with a little digression here, A few years back, you were working on an invention with your hydroplaning board. You still. You still got that going?

Kind of, yeah. So I, Yeah, I invented the world's first electric flying jet surfboard. It flies about two feet out of the water on a hydrofoil wing and has a little jet system as a fuselage and a remote in your hand. So I, Yeah, I designed it. I crowdfunded it.

We.

We designed it and then I got it patented and I licensed it off to a company in Australia, which they're still working on bringing it to the market. And I mean, they're. They're getting closer. I keep. I keep seeing snippets and, and stuff. I don't know if. If or when it's coming. My fingers are crossed because that's going to be like something I've always wanted was to come up with an idea, get a patent, leave my mark in the world, you know, license something and see something come to, you know, production and ride it and sell it. And so, I mean, I still foil. I still have one here. I'm hoping and praying the company gets it off the ground and pulls it into production. For sure.

Yeah. I had to ask because we hadn't talked about it in the longest time. Last we talked about it you were, you were just going after the patent and everything and you were like really like yeah, real close to getting to that point of production. Everything. So. Huh. Very cool. Got the patent. That was excellent. Yeah, excellent. Well I told, hey everybody, I told you. Chris, he's an innovative guy. This is like just the perfect illustration of it. Just like a few years ago when you put up the site for you know, teaching, you can really start, start a business.

Yep. And yeah, yeah. So we, I, I put that on, on pause because my, I really wanted, I realized how big of a pill that was to swallow to help groups of kids learn. I mean it's, it's, I have to put that on hold. But that is coming down the road. I can't wait to help kids entrepreneurs do stuff. We're actually a bunch of friends and I, we're accumulating tools. We want to actually build a, have a workshop where kids can come in with their ideas. And we've got everything. We got like CNC machines, 3D printers, milling, I mean you name it, we got everything. It doesn't matter what they want to build. We can help them make it and let them be creative and help them build and launch kind of products. Kind of like a startup incubator for not just kids but any, anybody with a cool idea who wants to just, who needs that help. There's so many people that have cool ideas and, but they just don't know where to go. And I mean naturally that just comes to me. I see an idea, I'm like oh my gosh, we can do this, we can do that. It could, you know, you could run a business this way. You could offer it. I mean there's so much coolness. I mean the coolest thing we're working on right now is this giant like anti aircraft gun, but it's a water gun and it's got a 80 psi pump on it. It bolts down to my dock and it's got a valve, we made a custom valve that shoots like blocks of water. And the recoil on this thing, I mean it's like a six foot barrel and you're just a double head. It's like, and just for like picking off you know, stand up paddle boarders cruising by. Although I wouldn't want to hit them because it'll hurt but it's just a fun toy. Right.

So. So what's your range with that?

How far it goes? About 200ft. It's a huge. We ended up using a giant agricultural sprinkler head system thing that is designed to, you know, funnel the water, make it track nice and clean and straight. We're working on it. We know. We know what needs to be done to make it shoot even better. Like a really nice, perfect, clear water tube really far versus more of a spray. But I haven't had time to put it together. But we know exactly what to do. We just need to do it.

You're dealing with an age old problem, and if you can figure out how to put rifling in the barrel and get that water to spin as it goes, that'll probably help a lot.

Yeah, it's kind of like that. Yeah, it's a different way rifling. It makes the water actually spray a little bit more, I think, for the water. But yeah, I mean, I remember with all my pellet guns, I. My. You look down the barrel, you can see the rifling so that it spins and it tracks perfectly straight. Yeah.

Well, I tell you what, we'll have to get together sometime and we can. We can have a battle, because I remember back in my young, younger days when we go down to the lake. You ever heard of a Winger?

No.

So water balloon slingshot. Takes three people to operate it.

Yeah. Got one. Yep.

Those things are great. So we'll have to have a little battle with those because I think those are awesome. You'll have the fire rate and probably a little bit of accuracy. But I think the Wingers got you for range because I know the Winger, man, we could launch those, like, wicked far. Yeah, well, yeah, we'll have to have a little fun with that. We get out on the boats.

Sounds good. Yeah. My son loves those things. Anything that shoots well, the main thing.

You got to watch out for with a Winger, though. And this one guy we had at the dock, he was. It was just insane to do this instead of having people hold the straps. Well, so everybody knows Winger. It's a giant slingshot. Instead of shooting a rock or whatever, you put a water balloon in it. Anyway, it takes three people. It takes two people to hold the end of the rubber bands and then the third person to pull it back. Well, what Ron did is he fastened the ends to the post on the dock.

Oh, yeah.

Pulls this thing way back and let it go. And it didn't release on the way out, and so it shot him. Oh boy.

Oh gosh. That's gotta hurt. That must have been quite the pull.

Yeah, that was hilarious. Anyway, okay, so enough with the digresses, but I did have to ask about your waveboard, so. Yeah, very cool, man. Anyway, yeah, back to. Back to trading. Now a couple years ago, I know your main focus at that time before you got into the asset revesting. I'd say this is, I don't know, maybe more than just a couple years ago. Anyway, your big focus was the algo trading. Now are you still big on that or is what you. Is what you're doing now more back to the hands on trading and. And investing.

Yeah. So I did the algo trading, which is the strategy iu, which is asset revesting, except for it was focused a little bit shorter. Bit shorter time frame because it traded the S P500 futures. And of course I tried to automate it, which I am not a fan of automation. That was a painful process. I don't ever want to go that direction again. I'm not a fan of robots making decisions. It's so easy. There's so many moving parts to automated trading system. All these people think, oh, AI can trade for you. They have no idea what they're stepping into. Like, even if you don't have another brain trying to figure out like an AI trying to make its own decisions, just making a system that follows rules. There are so many little weird nuances in live tick trading that it makes it very difficult to build a trading system to follow those rules, not get hung up with some other, I mean, some other little piece of data that now doesn't fit or. I mean it is a nightmare. I hate automated trading, which. So algo trades is. Was asset revesting. It was the automated side. I don't like that. I got away from that. And that's what I offer now is, is asset revesting and the system generates the signals. But I verify every trade before we send it out to members, before we send it out to brokers because the brokers will execute it, you know, in our clients counts for them.

Okay.

So I definitely want to make sure either my eyes or, you know, my. My team reviews every trade that goes out, make sure it's kosher.

Okay, so. So you're doing a combination. But yeah, still hands on human. Human control over things. That's good.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cool.

Well, so going. Going back, I mean this, this is one of the reasons how you and I kind of connected back in the day was I came across one of your books or your websites about, you know, you've got processes, quality control, all that stuff. And of course I was a pilot and I was all into, I'm all into checklists, which is what really connect. And you have trading system mastery, which is a course I took of yours and I took that and that's what really helped refine my whole strategy is once you document it, I mean I already, I'm really good at making checklists and making rules. But I mean you had that whole strategy and that was what really connected because I'm like a logical by the rules kind of guy. You give me guidelines, I'll, I'll make something work within those guidelines or with those guidelines. And so that was a big part of actually kind of what really refined asset revesting, which is the, the new kind of style of investing I do and how I, how it functions and it's, you know, all just systemizing it. And I talk about it all the time. I mean I, I offer, I always tell people about your courses. You've got trading system mastery and trading as your business. And I mean it really comes down, if you want to be successful in trading, you've got to have a proven system. And I, I know people I know taking your course, when you try to system like document your course, you going through that, you realize, oh my gosh, I have all these voids. I don't, what do I do if this happens? Or you know, as you're testing something out, you're like, actually, I don't think this actually is going to work. And by, by trying to document something you think you've got nailed down, you actually realize there's so many voids, right? And that's where people fail is they don't create a system. And, and if you don't create a system, you're not going to follow through with it. But once you've created that strategy and you've, you've gone through it and it's proven to work, then it becomes easier to follow. Then the mental game becomes a whole lot easier. You're always fighting your emotions, but when you have something to follow, it makes it so much easier to try and block out other people's opinions, their thoughts. I mean, I never really tell anybody, you know, what I'm doing trading because they always want to throw a whack of other, well, what about this and what about that? I'm like, what about it? Like, you know, everybody will try and throw you off your game. Everybody has their own views and stresses and the nice Thing about a strategy is, is it's black and white. If this, then do that, if that, do this. I mean, it's really that straightforward. And then, you know, people don't treat trading as a business. They think of it as, I don't know, more of a hobby. I mean, it is one of the toughest businesses ever. Not only is it tough to identify trends and trade them and manage positions, but then you've got your emotions, which are pretty much the, the biggest problem. I mean, I provide signals. All you have to do is follow them. And you can, you can more or less grow your accounts. Yet everybody gets emotional. They're like, oh, I skipped this trade, or I didn't get out of this one because it hit her first target so fast. And now I'm underwater and you're out of the trade and I'm holding a loser, right? It's like they, they, they just can't follow a strategy because they, you know, they, they don't understand the power of systems. And I mean, being a pilot, I was, when I first started, when I did my first solo flight up in the air, flying around, scared out of my mind, excited, knowing I have to get down without killing myself. And I had a checklist and literally the only thing that got me down and my emotions were flying probably the highest they've ever been, pardon the pun. If I didn't have that checklist to put my finger on and be like, okay, car, repeat, flaps, you know, drop the speed, nose down, like all the stuff the radio calls, you name it, right? If I didn't have those, my emotions, I would have forgot half of the little stuff. Probably would have had one crazy landing. Instead, I followed the checklist. I got to just ignore my emotions and just focus on reading that list and doing the tasks. And then you touch down and you're like, oh, my gosh, that was absolutely amazing. And if you don't have that checklist, those rules, your emotions are going to completely dominate you and then you lose money. We're all in this to make money. We all are trading and investing, and we're not here for emotions. We're. But you gotta really, you know, focus. It is a business. There's no, there's no doubt about it. I think the financial industry is the biggest business in the world, next to pornography is the second. So trading is a real business.

Yeah, well, one thing that you touched on there and, and again, everybody, Chris is a super sharp guy and he covers a lot of ground with the different things that he offers and he's also got a couple of books out, which I totally recommend. We'll speak to those in a moment. But as far as trading, one of my favorite questions to ask people when they come to me for help is have you ever started and run your own business before? And if they say no, I've just been an employee all my life, just only work for other people, then I know that they've got two learning curves to go through. Because with trading, it's no different than starting up any other business. You have to plan it out, you have to make something, there's a whole list of things that are required. You got to have good planning, you got to have some goals and set, you got a proper capitalization, you got to make sure you know what you're doing, all that kind of stuff. But the thing is with trading and if somebody has never started and run their own business before, then you have that learning curve to go through in addition to learning how to trade and invest and everything to do with markets. So you'll have two learning curves to go through. And if you have started and run your own business, then at least you have that, you know, that set of experiences to lean on. But the, the other thing is you still have the, the in and outs of this business to learn. And that's where a guy like Chris can be massively helpful for you because he's got, you know, tons of years. I mean he's got a lot of years of really excellent experience. He's, he's evolved a lot over the years and so he's got of different perspectives in addition to the experience. And he's worked with lots of people, so he brings a lot to it. And no matter what you got going on, I guarantee Chris could probably help you out. So. But yeah, as far as the business and again, the reason you want to seek somebody like Chris out or my courses is this is not a business that's easy to figure out. This ain't like set up a lemonade stand or a restaurant where you can kind of figure out a whole lot of it as you're going to. This is not one that lends itself to that. You really need the outside help and you need some experience. You need the help with somebody who's got the successful experience in the industry because otherwise you can just beat your head on this rock for years and only walk away with a bloody head and empty handed. So now on your books, you actually had two recent releases. Your initial book that you wrote that was Technical Mastery, right?

It was Technical. Yeah, technical trading mastery.

Yeah. But you just updated that, right?

Yeah, so I did a lot with it. I mean, the old book was about 270 pages or so, the new one's about 130. So I like chopped it in half, really updated it to, I mean, the first one I wrote back in 2013. So things have evolved. I've learned a lot since then and I wanted to just share stuff that people can actually use and implement and walk away from the book with saying, okay, I now understand how I need to like position sizing. How much should I actually put into this particular asset? How volatile is it? What am I comfortable with? What is my personality type? Do I need, you know, help there? What instruments should I trade? And then I share like two basic strategy, foundational strategies. One's on momentum trading and one's on swing trading. Provide the indicators, the rules that I use for individuals to use that as like a launch point. If you want to be a swing trader, there's, there's. You're going to combine those two and, and you can build on whatever else, however else you see the market. I mean, we all see the market through a different lens. Our brains process things differently. I'm very visual and very logical. So, I mean, I don't, I don't run on emotions too much. I like price action, price charts. And, and so this book just really lays it out. I mean, I wouldn't say it's the most exciting book, I think just because I, that's just my personality. I'm like, here's what you need to know. Here it is. Now apply it. But I don't do like, you know, big stories and make it all warm and cozy and I don't touch everyone's emotions. I'm not, it's just not me. I just like get me to the end solution. And so that's what it does. I, I show these, these ways to view the markets and how you need to, you know, scale in and out or out of trades, more or less and identify trends. And once, once you can do those. Like, this is kind of the foundational book for a beginner. If you were to come in, this will hopefully set the tone of what you should expect. Most people want to make 30, 50, 100% return a year. I mean, that's not reality. That's not really going to happen. It might happen for somebody with a small account who's swinging for the fences and they fluke out a few times or the market condition is good for a year so they falsely Think they're really good. And then when the market changes tides, it starts going the other direction for a year or so. They realize, you know, my gosh, 2022, I did terrible. They realize they don't have any, any skills, you know, and that's the problem is people just get, if you get a really good trade, you think you've figured it out. If you happen to join during a good year like Covid, everybody, the whole world piled in. They all thought they were superheroes. And then as soon as the, as soon as the trend changed, they all got slaughtered. And I did an article on this showing the put call ratio, how, how, how it used to move before COVID how it moved during COVID And then once those people, you know, got taken out to the woodshed and hacked into pieces, it went back to normal trading again. And I mean, that's just the reality of it. These people come into the markets thinking it's so easy. They use leverage. They do all the things you're not supposed to do. And this, I mean, I try to do it in this book. I'm like, don't do any of that stuff. Focus on the foundational stuff. You need to understand who you are, what, what keeps you in check with your emotions so you don't start trading off of fear or greed. You also need to know you're not going to make a ton of money. You're good. Like every year you're going to have years that can be really good, but other years are going to be flat or slightly negative. And so that's, that's the whole kind of technical view. People don't, I found people don't like really good information that's kind of dry, unfortunately. Like, they don't want to, like, if, if I tell them, let's talk about emotions. Let's go through, you know, the realities of the markets. You can't catch every big rally. You don't need to always be in the markets. They glaze over. They get boring. They're like, no, no, I want to trade. I want to make big returns. I don't. I want to trade options and stocks. I mean, all those things lend towards losing money. And I mean, over 90 of traders, active traders lose money. The more active you are, the quicker and the more likely you are to fail. So, you know, trading more isn't, isn't the solution. And so with, with that book, I'm trying to just set the tone. This is the reality of trading. You need to identify trends, trade with the trends. Don't Try picking tops and bottoms. Don't trade off emotions, just follow price. So that's kind of, Kind of it in a nutshell. Yeah.

Well. And you said it's what, like 158 pages, was that right?

Yeah, it's about 130 pages. It's a really simple, easy read. I mean, it's a couple sittings. You're done.

Yeah. Easy to digest, which is huge. And, and thank you for doing that.

Yeah, I, I hear you. I was never, I was never big into reading it. Like, growing up, I was always in, I was in special ed. I struggled with reading and I, I think it was like the best thing ever. Everybody. I remember my teacher telling me once, she, I, she laughed at me in school. I remember I was at a Catholic school. And she laughed when I said, well, one day I'm going to write a book, and she laughed out loud. And I mean, that was the piece that, that I've held on forever. So I was like, there was a reason I wrote that book. It was my main motivation. I'm like, you know what? I, I know stuff and I want to share it and I want to just like get back at that teacher and publish this book. And, and I did. But you don't need to be super smart or savvy, like to be highly successful in the markets. You just need to find a method that works and stick with it. I mean, there's you, you don't need to learn, and you don't need to learn the markets. This is where a lot of people, I think, get caught up. A lot of people want, deep down, people want to be a really good trader. They want to be like, I trade, I made 50,000 today or this week or whatever, and they want that whole thing. But the reality is, unless you're going to live and breathe it for your entire life, always learning, the markets change every week. You know, it's a lifelong thing and, and you really need to be tapped into it and, and understand it. The reality is most people can't do it and they don't have the time to do it. And it's just like if you want your, if you want your house painted really nicely inside, you hire a professional painter. If you, if you want your money traded really well, you, you get a quality service that knows how to do proper research and manage positions. You don't generally just go out and gamble all your money. Although that's what everybody does in the markets, right? They don't realize they're, they're playing with their life savings. And you know, people don't want to hire somebody. And I get it. Because the financial industry itself is so backwards. It's not designed to protect anyone's money. They just plop it in the market and the investors got to take the roller coaster ride. They have no control and there's no downside protection. If you, if you just do the buy and hold, you're guaranteed to have massive losses, huge roller coasters, a lot of pain. So it's a, it's a tough industry.

Oh, yeah. Well, it was funny how you said, yeah, the financial industry, they're not there to protect you. It's like, yeah, they make, they make sure that you even say out loud that you're okay with losing your money. You know, when you first fund your account, it's like you have to sign that disclaimer. Yes, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, trading or investing money that I'm won't affect my lifestyle. If I lose it, I'm okay with losing it. So they may. They make you agree that you're okay with losing it before they take it from you.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

So how cool. Well, okay, so now that's the, the technical Trading mastery book with your asset revesting book. Now that's a new book, right?

Yeah. So asset revesting is, it's kind of a new term I came up with. It's really like allowing investors to take control back of their money. And, and instead of just buying and holding, they're reinvesting their capital into a different asset. So when one asset stops going up, you pull it out, you go to the, go to the next asset that is showing strong, steady signs of growth. And you rotate into that. And so I use like an asset hierarchy, meaning whatever assets on the top of the hierarchy is the most volatile, like US Indexes is what I like to use. And then you've got bonds below it, and then you move down to currency. So as the markets get more volatile, you move down the, the asset hierarchy to slower moving assets. And of course you only want to move into them if they're in an uptrend moving higher. So I kind of coined the term asset revesting because the style of investing or trading that I do is right in the middle. It's not passive investing, it's not active trading. It's somebody who is just kind of constantly taking their money. And when the market evolves, they reinvest their asset in a new area or a different type of asset. And it's kind of just again, like stuck in that middle no man, no man land where it requires very little work. I mean, we only have like, like five or 12 trades a year, which is almost nothing. But it allows us to completely avoid market huge market corrections, bear markets. We can profit from them because if the market's falling, the stock market, we can move to a different asset. And in like 2022, the year that was the year of the US dollar, if you're along the US dollar index, I mean, all it did was go up and to the right all year. And that's on our hierarchy. And Tom, even if the dollar was falling, we have the inverse etf. So as we move from volatile stocks to bonds down to a currency, even if that currency is falling, we can buy an inverse ETF that's still going up in value. So we can literally almost sit in cash, but still actually reap some pretty good rewards with low volatility. So for example, in my book, in this particular section where I show the hierarchy, the stock market was moving about 14% from the ultimate high to the low every 14 days. I mean, this was a volatile window of the market. Bonds moved about 8%, so just over half. And then the, the U.S. dollar index moved about 3 and a half percent. And then we've got like a cash position that moves a little bit just because you can, you generate interest. So it actually has some fluctuation. So as the markets are crazy, we just keep going down the, the hierarchy, moving to more comfortable, slower, safer assets. And no one else really kind of does that. People actually are the opposite. Markets are crashing. They all buy leveraged ETFs, inverse ETFs, and they just go off the deep end, right? It's just wild. So I do the opposite of the masses and I trade in a time zone in a style that most people don't do. And there's typically a lot of money to be made when you found something that other people aren't doing. And I think asset revesting is going to be. Well, I already know a lot of people are demanding it from their brokers because they're just sick and tired of holding through it. They strongly believe there's no reason of holding everything. If the markets are going down, why would we not move to cash? But advisors don't move to cash. They kind of can't. Or else they can't technically charge money if they're not doing anything with that money. The SEC's got the like, hey, if you move your client to cash, you can't charge them an annual fee or a monthly fee because you're not doing anything. So the whole industry is backwards. There's no protection for the investor. There are some great advisors who are technical who do some of this stuff. But yeah, the asset revesting is just a, a different view of the market. It does the opposite of what the industry does. And it's all about protecting capital first. If we just protect our capital from going down, then whatever we get in that's going up is just going to keep growing our account. And that's what we see. Every few months our investment account hits an all time new high water mark. It's, it's pretty incredible people and we've got auto trading so people can do that and not have to do anything. They just set it up and it executes for them. And those are the people that actually are shocked the most because they're like, I can't believe I log in and I see my account going up in value even when the market is falling. They're like, it's so, it's so mind blowing and it's like a thrill alone right there.

Oh yeah. Well, you know, instead of calling it no man's land really, I mean one of when you want to first or when you first introduced me to what you were doing but what I liked about it was it's a good sweet spot because there are tons of people, almost Everybody's got a 401k, managed funds and all that kind of stuff or their Edward Jones account, Schwab where just in the buy and hold mode and their brokers aren't really doing squat form. So what you're recommending makes total sense. It's like no, you don't have to be a trader where you're trying to be super active but you do want to more carefully manage what you've got and pay attention to what's going on and simply make sure that you're moving your wealth to better areas as conditions change. And to me that's like, that's just a really intelligent thing to do and you know, from a broad perspective, just a much smarter and you know, more responsible way to be, you know, managing your wealth. So yeah, I thought, I think it's great and it's really cool. And of course the term that you got, you know, asset revesting, it's notable and catchy name for it. So very cool and hopefully, you know, more people will go and get your book. Now as far as your book, are you selling that on Amazon, of course. I mean, everybody sells it on Amazon. Is that your primary source or you got it through other channels as well as people like other providers.

I mean, it's on Ingram's like. I mean, you can technically get it at bookstores and order it at Chapters and Indiegogo, all those other places, whatever. But yeah, Amazon is kind of the easiest, easiest spot to get it.

Okay, well, for everybody out there, I mean, Chris, you touched on it earlier, but for everybody out there, if you're going to be, I mean, if you're going to have wealth and especially if you're wanting to do good things with it and not just take, you know, the, you know, 3 to 5% bank or a lot of the other, you know, financial planners are offering you, you want to do a little bit better than that. You do want to stay in learning mode. Times when things change and continue to evolve. Over the last 20 years, we've seen tons of, of changes in the financial worlds and technology and what, what is available to people. I mean, even the marketplaces have changed. You know, Micros didn't, didn't used to be a thing. Now they, they exist. There have been things to, you know, added to the marketplaces. Of course we're seeing all kinds of stuff with crypto and now, you know, they're talking about even other, you know, more big changes to the whole financial world coming when with potential, you know, digital currencies and stuff like that. So you want to stay on top of things and just for your own sake, be in learning mode so that when you know things are going on, you have resources to talk to, go connect with for help. Like with Chris, if you've read his book and you see things going on, cool, you know, that you can go connect with him, maybe get his help, but don't just sit there and, you know, get punished out of ignorance. You know, do continue learning about it. And I mean, besides the fact that it actually is kind of cool, there's a whole lot of stuff going on. And I know I always enjoy my talks with you because I always get different perspectives and insights that it's like, yeah, even all the years I've been in it, it's like every conversation I pick up something new for me, which is cool. But with the books now, what else have you got going on at your site? So you've got your books, but at your site now you have different services that you offer, right? I mean, tell us a little bit about the different services that you offer and trainings that you've got, yeah, so.

We'Ve got a few different services. The main one asset revesting for people who just want to grow their wealth with the few fewest amount of trades, the highest returns, the lowest losses, the smallest losses or drawdowns. I call that cgs. It stands for the Consistent Growth Strategy. And I mean it really is kind of, it's what I started to learn. It's a strategy I've been working on since 2001. And I've used it kind of through all my services, kind of as the core foundation to identify trends in the market. And so that is where we trade the indexes, bonds, the currency, cash, and we put 100 of our capital into one asset at a time. So if the stock market is, is trending higher and all the signs are there, we move into the SP 500 in the NASDAQ. If it's not, we'll move into a different asset. But asset revesting doesn't believe in, in diversification. Why, if something is performing the best and it shows the the most security and a strong trend, why would you go dump some money in something else? So it's all about moving your money, reinvesting into the best asset at any given time. And so that's kind of the core strategy. If you've got, you know, substantial wealth and you're in retirement, you just want consistent growth year after year, don't have to worry about massive losses. Like that is the ultimate strategy. But then I have another one for people who are a little more aggressive called ban, which stands for best asset. Now that focuses on the same style strategy but with these sectors. So sectors move a lot faster. So you can get into the ARK ETFs, you can get into the AI ETFs, gold miners, you name it. When we've got a buy signal, we look and identify what sector is the hottest, which one is the money flowing to. We move in and we own those hottest sectors. Now that only works in a raging bull market, which we're not really in a raging bull market right now. So different strategies have different times to be used. The consistent growth strategy works in all market conditions. It profits from rising and falling. Ban is more focused on hot stocks and sectors. But we need a raging bull market. We need things to keep going up for opportunities there. And then we also have an options trading newsletter. So people who are really active and they want to do options every week, multiple, like writing options, selling options, so you're collecting in premiums. It's the opposite of what everyone did. During COVID in Covid, everybody just bought puts and calls, mostly all calls, expecting everything to go up. This is doing the opposite. Those people are buying options from us. So we sell them those options, they pay a premium, we get to keep it no matter kind of what the, the option does. So it's a, it's a low risk way to trade options. It's slow. You put on a lot of positions. We do put on like 20, 30 trades a month. I don't run that particular one. My, my partner Brian runs it. He's an unbelievable options trader. But it generates kind of cash flow every month, and you take advantage of people who want just pure leverage and they're willing to pay a premium for it. Yeah, so that's kind of, kind of the core focus, the kind of three different levels of, you know, managing capital, from slowest, most passive to aggressive.

Okay, very cool. Well, and knowing you, you know, when we talk, a year from now, you're probably gonna have something, something else in addition to what you got going on. You're always coming up with new ideas and, you know, looking at, and, you know, adapting as things change. So. Very cool. Cool. Well, one question I gotta ask, just because it's the Consistent Profits podcast. So what do you see as far as, you know, making consistent profits? What do you see as, like, probably a couple of the biggest mistakes or obstacles that people, you know, run into as far as consistent profits?

I mean, the number one problem is people's emotions, and it causes them to do stupid stuff like skip trades, get into trades. The number one problem is people don't get out of a trade. We can all get in, it's super simple. But once you're in it, if you're making money, you don't want to sell it because you're making money. And then if it turns into a, like, if you're losing money on it, you don't want to sell it because you're a loser. You just prove to yourself, okay, I was wrong. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to actually book the loss and that's going to solidify that, you know, I just took a loss and I, I, you know, in our brain we think we're like, I'm a loser. I just lost. So I would, I would think the biggest thing is not getting out of trades. And we just did a huge survey. We had over 5,000 responses from traders and investors. The number one thing, it's pretty much the same thing, but their emotions make them do bad things. But other. Other than that, the next direct thing was they can't. They don't know when to exit. They don't know when to exit, or they. They can't exit because of their emotions. They're like, I can't. I can't get out of it. It's, you know, it's tough because if they're making money, they don't want to get out, and if they're losing, they don't want to get out. And if you hold it too long, you're down so much that now you're like, I will. I really can't get out because it's way too big of a loss. And this happens in a. With a lot. Most people, unfortunately, they end up holding a ton of stocks in their portfolio that have been underwater and are worthless. And they go on for like two years where if they just bit the bullet, nipped it in the butt really quick, got out of it for a tiny loss, they could have taken all that money and reinvested it in a better asset and been growing month after month versus sitting there with a ton of people. One of the most frustrating things is, you know, I have people, you know, unsubscribe. They cancel. Like, I need to cancel my subscription. We always ask, like, you know, you know, why? What could I do better? What's. What do you need help with? Or, you know, and it's almost everybody says the same. Like, when they cancel the same thing, I don't have enough money. I'm not trading anymore. And when we dig into it, they're always following crazy newsletters and the trades that they put on and the amount of money they've lost in trading something that they like, like holding a stock that they're just have full belief in. It's so frustrating. There's so much disservice in the financial industry where people push out trades and stocks. And it's just so frustrating that people get sucked into really good. It's so easy. I mean, it's so easy to sell high performance. All you got to do is say everything you want, you know, they want to hear. And people unfortunately just go to it and join. And they always offer huge returns, the financial industry and, you know, huge discounts on services. And it's just. It sucks because I see it chew up thousands of traders every year. They're like, I love what you're doing. I'll be back when I save up enough money. But they're always blowing up their accounts because they're doing all kinds of crazy Stuff thinking they can make huge money. And they, I mean, I. I read the responses of what people have gone through, and it's so, so depressing. And it's why I'm trying to get out in front of everybody, because it's going to get really bad in, in the future, I think, in terms of a market correction. And people who are struggling now aren't going to be struggling. They're going to be getting beaten to death by the markets in the future. And it's tough. Just. People get lured, lured into false hopes and these, These kind of promises of big riches, quick riches. And fortunately, our brain naturally wants to go that way, even though we, deep down, you got to know it's not true. Like.

Yeah. And. Yeah. As far as, you know, what you were saying, is it sometimes tragic? Yes. And I know I was laughing along the way. I wasn't laughing because you know what you were saying. And the experience people are going through is funny. I was laughing because. Oh, you're describing me, my first year of trading.

Oh, we've all been through it. I mean, I did so many blown up, like three accounts. The last one I didn't. I was. I remember I was living in town. It was our. It was our second home. And I didn't even want. I don't think I ever told my wife I blew it up. I just scraped up enough money, refunded another futures account. And after I blew that one up, more or less, I blew. I pretty much gave up before I blew it up. I'm like, okay, futures, I mean, they're great, but, man, if you don't have the discipline and a strategy, there's too much leverage.

Oh, yeah.

And if you got a small account, you've got such a headwind because you are swinging for the fences because you don't have much money. The reality is it takes money to make money. And if you just add leverage to a little bit of money, you're just a ticking time bomb. And people don't want to hear that, but it's the reality. So, unfortunately, scrape up enough money, be conservative, grow it slowly. But once you've got that nest egg, it can start to grow and compound exceptionally well. It's just the tiny accounts where people are trading leverage and options. It's a ticking time bomb. They're just a matter of time. They're gonna. I know we've got subscribers been trading for like 20 years, and they're, they're like, my account size is the same. It was in the, you know, 2000 and they've spent so much, they've probably spent like a hundred thousand dollars on newsletters in 20 years and, and all the stuff. And they still need help. Right? So that's the problem is people. That's why you need to trade it as a business. Like you've got to sit down, make your game plan, figure out what your product is, what style of investing you're going to do. I think the other big thing actually is your personality type. So I, I wrote a thing on this on my blog. I'm talking about the Myers Briggs. Do you know the Myers Briggs personality test?

Oh yeah.

So, so there's, there's 16 personality types and I went through, I analyzed them and 13 of them don't favor financial decisions, which is really cool because I was doing a presentation and I found two reports that come to the conclusion that more or less 80%, 81% of people will run out of money in retirement, which is pretty bloody scary. And then I look at my Myers Briggs test, I go, oh my gosh, 13 out of 16, that's 81%. I'm like, how, what is the coincidence? So like, it blew my mind. I'm like, okay, so everything is coming into, into sight now. I'm like, okay, you need to read this article, do the quick little quiz, find out what your personality type is. And it doesn't matter if you're one of those personality types. If you are, it just means you need someone to guide you and provide the support and the signals and you know, to make investing work. If, if you're somebody like me, I'm an intj, I'm called the scientists and I'm very logical. I'm rule based, like, I'm just like data off science, you know, Star Trek. Then you're, you're going to be a lot more probably able to generate returns because you're going to have rules and structure and follow them. But if you don't, I mean you've, you've got, you've just added a whole new headwind that almost nobody ever looks at. They never look at their personality type and be like, like, holy crap, I'm that type. I am like a, you know, emotional, you know, person. It, it's, it's mind blowing. And people, it's a real wake up call when you realize, okay, if I'm this mindset, I am susceptible to a lot of emotional distress. And yeah, it's really important you got to know who you are.

Yeah, it's good to know because yeah, if, if you are at Risk. Better to know than think you're not. To think you're okay. Sure, ask any. It hurt.

And if you know, you're emotional, when you are feeling emotional and frustrated, you can be like, okay, well, I know that's just my personality type. It's the way my brain processes this data. Is frustrated and angry as I am, I need to hit that sell button. Like, it's that, you know, at least it gives you a little bargaining chip to be like, okay, it's just my brain. It's not that I'm actually a loser. I'm just, just following rules here.

Yeah, how funny. How excellent. Well, yeah, that's really cool actually. If you would send me somebody the link to that article and I'll post in the show notes. Sure, yeah, go ahead and check that out. Well, we've been talking way, way longer than normal. I knew we would just normally I keep these, you know, like 30, 35 minutes. I knew we were going to run along just because. Yeah, that's all right. No, that's excellent, man. You showed a lot of cool stuff here. Very worthwhile and excellent catching up with, man. Thanks for, thanks for taking the time and doing this. I know you're a busy guy. I see, you know, it's always a pleasure.

It's a lot of fun to chat trading, so I love it.

Oh, yeah. So anyway, everybody, seriously, if, if you're, you know, you're at all serious about protecting your wealth, if you're into trading, if you're, even if you're not into trading, Chris is still a good guy for you to connect with. Check out some of his material, check out his books because like I said, even if you're not a trader, it's still going to. You'll find beneficial information in it and his perspectives will help you regardless of what you're doing with your wealth. And if nothing else, the expansion, his energy, you can tell. Yeah, he's full energy, he loves his stuff, his passions for it and yeah, he's pretty sharp. So, yeah, make sure you swing by the technical traders, the links in the show notes or description down below and yeah, Chris, thanks again for doing this, man. Awesome. If you don't mind, I'd like. Well, let's, let's get you back on here sometime in the near future because I don't want to wait another year to have you on. Well, maybe.

Maybe sounds great. Yeah, sounds great. Thanks, Brian.

Yeah. And everybody, you know, thanks for showing up today and looking to improve yourself as a trader and investor and, you know, if you enjoyed this, make sure you subscribe. We'll see you on the next episode of the Consistent Profits Podcast. Thank you for joining us today on the Consistent Profits podcast, brought to you by Inside Out Trading. Make sure to swing by Inside Out Trading and pick up your copy of the proven formula for Consistent Monthly Profits. If you enjoyed the show, make sure to subscribe on your favorite channel and we'll see you on the next episode. Cheers.