Dealing w Breaking your Own Rules – Robert J van Eyden – Episode 062

Hello and welcome to the Consistent Profits podcast brought to you by Inside out trading and Brian McAvoy, where the focus is on consistency because when you have the consistent part down, profits become easy. Welcome everybody to a new episode of the Consistent Profits podcast. This is Brian McAvoy with Inside Out Trading. And today I'm excited to be interviewing Robert Van Eeden, author of Badass Trader. Robert, glad to have you back on, man. You were on once before. It's been a little while. How are you, dude?

I'm doing exceptionally well. I think we about two months shy of one year anniversary of the book. So it's been going really well. I think what's not being going so well as my trading at the moment, it's been very volatile. I think with unexpected wars going on, the Fed not sure when they should cut. You know, markets have been extremely volatile and as a trend trader and as a breakout trend, at the end of day, it's been, I've been stopped out quite a lot.

Yeah, well, so if you would, for our listeners that aren't already familiar with you, I know we've had you on here before, but case I didn't catch that episode, give us a little bit of background. You're an author, you just wrote the Badass Trader, but you've been in the trading space for quite a while. So catch us up a little bit on, on, on your story as far as a trader and how you, how you wound up where you are now.

Sure. I actually wear two hats at the moment. So I'm a CEO of an online trading firm in South Africa called Scope Market. The last time we spoke, I was actually looking after IG Market, South Africa. So that's also changed. Yeah. So I've been in the industry for quite a while, about 25 years. And the reason for the book, as I mentioned before, I've been in contact with a lot of clients over the years in South Africa, outside of South Africa. And I started seeing a lot of common traits and I saw the same traits in my own trading style as well. And as such, I decided to write the book the Badass Trader. Initially the book was supposed to be called the Unbeatable Trader, but the publishers felt Badass Trader would sell a lot better. So I would not argue with that. And then yeah, I wrote the book. It was launched last year, July. So we're about, we're about 10 months in the book and it's been going well with the, with book sales and what I've also added since we last spoke, I've added a Audible version of the book which is available on about 25 different platforms at the moment. So that was also quite exciting. A lot of. Yeah, a lot of learning.

So now did you do the, the narration or the reading or did you hire somebody else. Somebody else to do. To be you?

Yeah, I decided it was a tricky one. I decided because the South African English accent is a bit different. So I reached out and I eventually settled on an Irish man basically narrating the book in American.

Oh, cool. Well, does he have a little bit of an Irish accent?

Hopefully no, it doesn't come through. We, we debated that as well. Should he be talking in ira, you know, Irish, Irish English or American English? And we decided on American English. So it was, it was quite a journey because I did. It was a, it was a self published effort to, to, to get the, the Audible. It's quite a mission. A lot of the, the publishers aren't keen to, to invest money in Audible because you know, you need to get someone to narrate it. So I did that. So it's been a good learning process. Yeah, I'm still not on Amazon. That seems to be the biggest challenge to get on audible.com but I'm on 25. Yeah. It's such a mission. It's. It's a mission. Wow.

That kind of surprises me because as easy as they make it to publish, you know, on Kindle and the regular Amazon bookstore, I'm surprised it's not as easy on Audible. Huh?

Yeah. So it's. So hopefully. So the company I'm using basically they think in the next two months. So we'll see how it goes.

Huh? Wow. Very cool. Well, that's awesome man that you're doing that. And I know as far as your book, yeah, you've gotten a lot of, lot of good reviews and now in your book again, just kind of catch everybody up to speed. As I recall, you spent a lot of time talking about traits and character and psychology and really the personal side of trading. So let's go and jump into that a little bit. You know, from, and one of my favorite things to ask everybody is, you know, from a psychology because, because everybody loves talking about, you know, trading psychology and but there are a lot of different takes on it. So in, you know, how would you say or how would you describe your perspective on the psychology of trading?

Yeah. So college of trading has to do with mindset in terms of how you deal with the process and then once you within a trade because we are human and our human nature Gets ahead of ourselves in terms of, you know, the three sins in trading, which is fear, greed and hope. And you need to manage that and you need to acknowledge that. So I don't think there's a, there's a stock standard definition of trading psychology that is just basically, you know, and I don't think, you know, there are a lot of views, you know, psychology is 80% of trading. I think it's a combination of, you know, method, mindset and then, you know, in terms of capital preservation through risk management, it's a combination. So I don't think, you know, it really doesn't help if you don't have an edge. And you super, you can manage yourself super well. You will not make money and vice versa either. You need an edge, but you still need to manage yourself. So it's a combination.

Yeah. Well now from a mindset perspective, and this is one of my favorite topics, you know, because a lot of people like, you know, they like talking about mindset and you know, mindset. Most people I think would agree that mindset is, you know, basically, you know, the set of beliefs and attitudes and perspectives that you bring into it. You know, that to me that's, that's a mindset. Now the thing is what a lot of people don't realize, I think and it's really huge and I gotta, you know, give credit where credit's due with Robert Kiyosaki in his book, you know, Rich Dad, Poor dad and talking about the four different types of people. Financially speaking, you got self employed or you got employer employees who are, you know, just people, they've only worked for other people their entire lives. You got self employed people who they, they have, you know, they have their own business but they're, they basically own their own job. Then you've got business owners where yeah, you have employees now and you can separate from the business a little bit and then you have pure investors where you're putting your money to work for you and you're not really getting involved in the business much at all. And what I, what I love about that whole thing is especially when it comes to trading is one of my favorite questions to ask people when they get into trading is have you ever started up and, started up and run your own business before? And if they say no, that lets me know that they've got two learning curves to go through. You got to learn trading, but you also got to learn how to run a business and you know, manage the business. And there's a whole mindset that goes with Being a business owner and then business investor, just plain looking at trading as this is a business I'm investing in. Just like if you were to open up a, you know, lemonade stand or, you know, an accounting firm or something like that. And so what's your take on that as far as the different perspectives or mindsets that people bring, whether they're an employee or they have different experiences in that quadrant? What are your thoughts on that?

You've raised something very important and you see it quite often, and you mentioned it. You should be treating trading as a business. I think a lot of people move into trading as a hobby. I think the why is not always quite clear. You know, the why is the, you know, the lure of quick money, easy money, which is not the case. So I think you always have to start with your why. So if you know and then multiple why's. I think the buzzwords at the moment is financial freedom time freedom. Trading can provide both. And then secondly, you know, I think you do need to treat it as business and why you need to. They will be. You will be earning revenue at times, but there also costs, those trades that don't make money. And that's the cost of doing business. It's the cost of doing trading. You know, it's like any business, you need to. You need to have cost to generate revenue. And in trading as well. And if you get that, that you know, every losing trade as a cost to make more revenue in the future.

Oh, yeah. Well, and again, back to. To mindset. Just the expectations that people have. If, you know, if all you, if all you have ever been is an employee working for somebody else, you know, you're used to just going and putting in your time and you get a paycheck, you know, and it's like you, you know, you show up, you do what they tell you, and every. And it's always very scheduled. You get a paycheck, you know, and if, like if you're hourly, okay, yeah, you know, yeah, you work 40 hours, you get your paycheck. If you only work 30 hours, you know, a little bit less, maybe, you know, 50, get a little overtime. But there's always the. Put in some time and the pay is pretty much automatic, you know, it's coming. Or even if, even if you're salaried. And so if that, if that's your whole perspective on how things work, when you get into trading, it's gonna be really aggravating because as a business owner, you know that. Okay, yeah, I may put a lot of Time in and I get a paycheck, sure, I may try this and it's not gonna work. I'm not gonna get a paycheck. I might try that and think, oh, maybe. And oh my God, it just works great. And so the whole expectations of effort versus the payoff and everything are wildly different between, you know, being an employee or having worked for yourself before. And so, and you know that just like when you're publishing a book, it's like, yeah, you can, you can put all the effort in. It takes all that time to write the book, go through the editing, work through the publishing, launching it and all that kind of stuff. And you don't know, maybe it'll take off, maybe it won't.

Oh, agreed. You know, I've, I've published three books. The first one that reasonably okay. The second one, if I had a measure in terms of time and effort, was a. Yeah, it's, it's got negative return.

Well now, as far as you're trading now.

What.

How would you, let's go and let everybody know, like, what's your style of trading right now? You're, you're in a day trading, you swing trading. Day trading. What do you got going on right now?

I've got a very interesting story to tell you because when I transitioned between IG markets and scope, where I'm now at the moment, I was actually trading for three months full time. So I was data, I was intraday trading or short term trading. And what do they say? Do as I tell you, don't do as I do. All the lessons I wrote and all the good, good information I put in the book, I probably discarded all of that in the first month. It was the funniest thing because, you know, I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do. I had this big dream of trading full time. Yeah, Greed, fear, not testing systems. I can go through the whole thing. So that was a hard lesson for me. And I had to go back and, and remind myself what trading is about because I was caught in the moment. I was caught in the excitement. You know, I thought, oh, this is going to be easy. And then lo and behold, I just left all my rules behind. Everything. And then the three horsemen, greed, fear and hope caught hold of me. I have recovered, thank goodness. But it was a hard lesson to show, even, you know, as an author of a book, you've been trading a while, that these habits, these behaviors need to be focused on because there could be a moment of weakness. You know, it's, it's like any addiction or anything. I'm not saying trading is addiction but if you don't focus you just, it gets thrown out of the, out of the water. So I'm working at the moment again full time managing a business. So my trading style is as end of day it's a breakout system. I focus predominantly on U S stocks. My, my population is probably the up to about 250th in terms of market cap. So I don't go beyond that because you, you do get into liquidity constraints going forward. So yeah, more, more large cap and large to medium cap equities. I look stocks, I look at.

Okay, and, and you said your the style you prefers. Breakout trading.

Yeah. So it's a breakout. It's, it's basically it's, it's usually out of a consolidation area and then I confirm it so breakout out of consolidation area and then I apply an average true range to it as well just to make sure that it's a valid breakout. I do look and that's what caught me out when I was dabbling for, for those three months, you know exactly. Those FOMO trades. So when I see large candles on a breakout, those are the FOMO FOMO trades. Don't get in.

Well yeah, that's cool. And you, you bring up a really important point. No matter how long you've been trading, the self management, self awareness was the, the magic crazy throughout there. And, and yeah, I mean I have to do it too. And I remind my kids, I remind you know, everybody I work with. It's like self awareness is absolutely critical as a trader. You got not only, not only paying attention to what you're doing but yeah all the stuff that's going on inside of you, you know, your feelings, the conversation going on in your head. Oh my God. Yeah. And especially if you're, yeah like you know, you're talking about full time trading where you put in six, eight hours a day instead of end of day trading. Oh yeah, you got too much time on your hands man. It's that, that conversation is just racing along.

The problem is you do and then you start looking at other markets which you actually don't know too well because you're sitting there and you know, I started, I, I was trading indices, I was trading the South African market, the US 30 and the DAX and then suddenly there was nothing happening. And then for whatever reason I thought Forex is where I should be looking and I know nothing about Forex trading. And, and why would I go into Forex trading without Testing my method. I've got no idea. But yeah, boredom did, did go in and then, yeah, I thought these indices were that boring and Forex is where it was happening. I even started looking a bit at crypto, but thank goodness I held myself back and, you know, got myself in an ordinary manner again and, and just gone back to what I was supposed to be doing and preventing these emotions from running ahead of me. But it was a massive lesson and I haven't shared it with anyone, so this is the first time I'm sharing with it. So sometimes you, you know everything and then you don't apply it in a moment of weakness.

Oh yeah, well, and, and it's cool that you do that because. Yeah, I mean if one of the biggest things that, that's so easy as a trader, especially when you, you're by yourself all the time, is it's so easy to like go into denial about stuff because there's nobody keeping you in check and calling me that.

No, no, no. It's just you and yourself and, and these voices in your mind the whole time.

Oh yeah, well, so you said that, you know, that was during your transition from IG to, to Scope. So.

Yeah.

So what do you got going on over at Scope right now?

It's very similar. It's an online trading platform, so it's, it's very similar to ig. So I am, I'm looking after Scope at the moment, pointed to Scope. So it's a very similar role. It's setting up a business, you know, growing the business and then, you know, positioning the business for future success. So.

Well, what, what, what all does Scope do? I've, I'm not familiar with Scope. So what do they do?

Yeah, so it's an online trading platform. They provide equity trading, CFD trading, crypto, forex, commodities. So it's a, it's, it's, it's an online trading platform. They predominantly domiciled in, in Dubai, Cyprus, Asia and then in Africa and Kenya, South Africa and then in Lebanon. So you would not know of it in the US you could probably compare it to. It's not a discount broker, but it offers very much what we Bull or Robinhood offers or. Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, so what do you like about, what do you like about Scope? What makes them worth looking into for people outside the U.S. i think in.

South Africa, you know, they, they reasonably, they offer good lever is always a good thing. And then they've got auto stops as well. So they spend a lot of time in terms of protecting client Capital, Yeah, look, it's just. And then the spreads are very tight as well. So generally. And the platform is very easy to maneuver because the problem, you know, a lot of these platforms, it's much of the same. So you know, the small differentiating factors like, you know, narrow spread, good selection of instruments, auto stops, things like that make. Makes it quite palatable for, for people to trade on the platform. It's very small. It's one of the smaller online trading platforms out there, you know, and, and you, and I know, you know, there are so many out there, so it wouldn't surprise me. You know, even when they approached me, I was, I never even knew. Scope was so not surprised that people don't know.

Well, so now do they have their. Is it a proprietary software that they have or somebody's using Ninja Trader or one of the other more common packages. Can they use their other software with your platform as well?

Yeah, so the only other two packages you can use MT4 and MT5 and then they'll be providing Trading View. So there's no, there's no copying trading, there's no trade ideas. All the clients come up with their trade ideas and they execute on the platform. It's a trading platform.

Oh, okay. Cool. Cool. Very cool. Well, so, so back to your book. You got the Audible version done, which is awesome. Working on getting on Amazon. Where, where. What other like audiobook platforms? What. What others are there? Anyway, I'm trying to. When you as soon mentioned that, I'm trying to remember what some of the other audiobook platforms there are.

Gosh, I'll. I'll. The only two that I can remember of the 25 is Apple and Spotify.

Oh, wow, they do audiobooks? Yeah, Spotify does.

Yeah, yeah. So there are so many. When, when I started this journey, I actually didn't realize that there's so many. I think Walmart has also got one I'm on. I'm not even sure, but Spotify and Apple are probably the ones that most people know.

Huh. Very cool, very cool. Well, again, for everybody that's not familiar with your book, give us a little bit of a rundown on your book. Again, I know it's focused a lot on the person, but. Yeah, give us a little walkthrough on your book. What all do you cover in your book?

Sure. The book is written in two parts, so the first part is basically it addresses the question why trading is the hardest, easiest thing to do. And I go into chapter one in terms of, you know, the four principles that a person should focus on. And then the second chapter I go into, you know, the use of checklists, which are quite important. It's another thing I actually violated in my month, my foray in my one month. The third chapter is basically looking at, to constructing a trading plan, which is quite important. And I spent a lot of time in terms of why, why are you training? Because if you can't answer why are you trading? The rest actually falls apart. And then the fourth chapter, I look in terms or in terms of measuring your trading plan in terms of does your trading plan have an inch or not? So I look at, you know, what is edge or in terms of what is required to get an edge. And then the second part of the book, and that's actually how the book came to life. For the last five years I've been producing trading principles on LinkedIn and a publisher out of the UK actually through those LinkedIn weekly principles approached me to write the book. It was a bit of a sad story initially because I submitted the application forms on their request and then they rejected me, which got me quite upset. That was a bit strange and I still found it strange, but it did create the platform for me to resubmit with other authors. So in all the book, the book is. It's about 210 pages. First part is about 110 pages and then there are about 153 principles, you know, and which, which basically come from my LinkedIn principles. They have been reworked and improved and they are summaries. So. So the first part is theoretical because initially I thought of just reducing the principle and then the publisher said, but you need to provide background information. You know, if you're talking about edge and you're talking about, you know, risk to reward or risk to return and you're Talking about the 2% rule, you need to, you need to somewhere discuss it and, and the impact. So that's the first part.

Very cool. Yeah. And understandable. Well, and as far as the, you know, the large number of principles, one of the things that I find hilarious about trading, or at least the way a lot of people approach it, is, you know, that it's so insanely simple and on the surface it is just. But then again, swords. So many other businesses and occupations. Yeah. Can it be described in one or two sentences? Sure. Is it that easy to go and do it and do it successfully? Oh heck no. The devil's in the details big time. Well, no, I mean, just recently it got, it got brought to mind for me because when I'm Talking about trading systems and how to get a consistent process. I had listed them all out, but I had never numbered them and just counted them. And really, really, I mean, took, like, some serious time to think it through. And it's like, there are actually 15 different characteristics of a good consistent process, just characteristics of the process itself. And I was kind of surprised, and I went through the list, and it's like, well, I must be, you know, duplicating them somehow or another. And it's like, no, these are all individual, distinct characteristics. And so, you know, when you first said 153 principles, you know, like a year ago, I would have said, really, 153. That sounds like an awful lot, man. But it's like, no, it's in the details. And some of the projects that I'm on right now, it's like, yeah, when you get into the weeds, there's a lot of detail that happens when you want something to go right.

Yeah.

And if you skip the details and you just brush it over on the surface thinking, all I need is a strategy and focus on being disciplined. That's two. It's like, no, there are a whole lot more boxes to check. So you're right. Yeah, that's cool. So give us a little sampling on some of your principles. Like, what are. What are a couple of your principles that you like to focus on or, you know, you think are really important for people to pay attention to that aren't necessarily so obvious.

So this week's principle is love the process and not the output. So the question is, you know, because people have been asking me, because I've been doing it week in, week out, where do I get the ideas? Because, you know, as you mentioned, you know, potentially 15 different things impact consistency. So theoretically, you know, eventually I should be running out of ideas. My ideas for the principles are quite simple. I listen to a lot of podcasts, you know, broader than trading alone. And if someone provides a gem or a catchphrase, I usually capture it, and then I build a principle around it, you know, so. So I keep on doing that. But the principles usually focus on. On. On. On the behavior of, you know, risk management, managing yourself, having an edge. So that that would be the key ingredients, and then we start adding things every week. So, for example, the one that will be produced this week will be focusing on, you know, not every winner, but is a winning trade. Because, you know, a winning trade, in my mind, is a trade that you followed process consistently. And it doesn't always mean that the outcome will be Profitable because you can, you can, you can win in trading by doing all of the wrong things and having no process you might want for a short period. But generally, you know, I think most evidence has shown that you'll actually blow up your account. It's just a matter of time.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, you bring up one of my favorite examples. I'm trying to remember who I talked to years ago that originally brought it to mind for me that I thought it was hilarious, but it's true. Is one of the worst things that can happen to you as a trader is you deviate from your rules and what you're normally supposed to do and you get a nice winner of a trade out of it. That can be one of the worst things that can happen to you. Can happen to you because it reinforces the bad behavior in a very strong way. And it's like, oh, because part of your brain is going, do it again, do it again. No, no.

How funny.

But yeah, you're absolutely right. So very cool, Very cool. Now, so LinkedIn, I know you're really active on LinkedIn, so, you know, if somebody wants to catch up with you, probably the best two ways to do it would be like LinkedIn or you got your book on Amazon, right?

Yeah. So I think LinkedIn. So my community, since the launch of the book, my community has grown quite extensively. So I'm, I'm sitting at about 20,000 followers at the moment, you know, compared to about 15,000 before I launched the book. And then. Yeah, and a lot of my LinkedIn, my weekly principles are getting reposted. I'm toying with the idea of potentially publishing two a week. I've actually got stock for the next two years, so. So I've been toying around with the idea so I can do that, but LinkedIn would be the primary source. And then the book is available on Kindle, and last time we spoke, it wasn't available in paperback on, on Amazon, but it's available in both formats now.

Cool. Cool. As far as doing two a week, don't. No, here's. Here's why. Here's why. Simply from a perspective of supply and demand.

Yeah, if.

No, because. And I've heard, ironically, one guy that I follow, he talks specifically about managing, managing demand and supply of whatever it is you provide, whatever market you serve. And it was funny because he used to focus on not a whole lot of content, but like super high quality. And then I don't remember who it was he talked to that said, oh, no, you need to go for Quantity. And so he just started flooding his channels, which is, and I'm getting, my notifications are pinging like all day long. And so after a while I just stopped. And it's like, no, I liked it better when you focused on quality because he was sacrificing a little bit on the quality. I mean, it was still good stuff, but the volume of it was like, no. And so the thing is, if you got that one a week and you're maintaining the quality to, you know, to let everybody remain just a little bit hungry, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, it's perfectly valid.

It's interesting because I, I usually publish them Saturday morning, South African time, and I published one on a Friday afternoon, and people were really upset that I actually went out of sequence. So, so I, I, I published them. You know, I've never, ever published them ever, other than on a Saturday morning going forward. Because I'd explain myself, suddenly I'd explain myself why on a Friday afternoon. You know, there was a reason. I can't even remember when. But you're right, you know, again, you know, people like consistency and again, the supply and demand make good sense. So I'll take you right for that.

Well, the other thing is. Well, what, what other channels are you on? I mean, are you, are you focusing on Almost solely on LinkedIn or are you on, on other social channels as well?

That's a good question. I've tried on Instagram.

Okay.

The problem on Instagram is, you know, on, on LinkedIn, you can put a lot more information in a post than on Instagram. And also I've been building up, you know, my, my followers on Instagram, you know, for 67 years on Instagram. It's, you know, it's taking a while and it doesn't grow. It seems the audience is very different. I will try again, you know, with, with lots shorter sound bites in terms, you know, of my principles. It doesn't cost me anything. You know, it's just a bit of copying, pasting, and a bit of formatting. But I will try. So I haven't had much success on Instagram. I'm not on Twitter. There are a lot of people on Twitter. And I always get the feeling that on Twitter, you know, people like to get trading ideas and, you know, this is what has happened to the market. And it's something that I do not participate in because my trading style is not like that. You know, I get, you know, if you ask me, where is the Dow gonna be? Is it going to be at 40,000 in the next two to three months. I've got no idea. But if, if it gives me a valid breakout, I will participate.

Yeah, well, the, the only reason I ask is one of the best lessons that I've gotten over the last couple of years is to just repurpose your content and, and get it else because the, the attention does, does move around a bit. I mean, LinkedIn's a great source, but yeah, there are a lot of traders on Twitter and what you might want to do is just, yeah, you know, short show, throw some clips out there that redirect. LinkedIn's a great source, but yeah, there are a lot of traders on Twitter and what you might want to do is just, yeah, you know, short, throw some clips out there that redirect them to LinkedIn and go ahead and get them moved over to your, the other platform. So, yeah, you publish good stuff. I mean, I'm a subscriber to you and I see your stuff on link. Yeah, you put out, you put out good content, man. So I highly recommend anybody that's listening if you like trading and you like good, you know, healthy perspectives and you know, a little bit of the lighter side. As you can tell, Robert's got a sense of humor and it's cool and he's a real person. He doesn't mind, you know, admitting that he's a human being. Cool. So, you know, yeah, hop on over to LinkedIn and it's Robert Van Eeden on LinkedIn. That's E Y D E N. And yeah, check them out there. Go ahead and connect with him on, on LinkedIn. And as far as your book, it's the Badass Trader on, on Amazon. And what, what's your website? The badasstrader.com Is that right?

Yeah, the badasstrader.com I haven't spent a lot of time on it. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, for everybody listening, you know, first of all, I applaud you for taking the time out of your day to, you know, listen to the podcast and you know, try to learn and develop as a trader and you know that. Kudos on that. And if you like, you know what Robert's got, if you're curious about his book, it is a good book and yeah, the title, it is catchy, but it's cool and it's all real world, you know, lessons that you'll get out of it. I guarantee you'll get some good value out of it. So go and check out his book, the Badass Trader. And Robert, thanks for taking the time out of your day, man. I appreciate it and it's always good to catch up with you. So I'm glad to hear that, you know, you're continuing to, you know, get the word out about your book and stuff like that and get on the different platforms with Audible. Have to. Have to go and get your audio book, so. Very cool.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me a second time and. And thank you for the good efforts you're doing as well. I enjoy listening to your podcast and, you know, getting different traders and educators on board. So. So well done and. And keeping the game honest for all of us.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Got to, man.

This is.

There's so many crazy people in this space. Got. Got to try to bring a little sanity to it, right? So. Excellent. Well, everybody, if you enjoyed the podcast, you know, subscribe and share it with your friends. And other than that, we'll go ahead and wrap things up. You know, make sure you come back and we'll go and call it a day with, you know, another episode of the Consistent Profits podcast. Again, Robert, thanks for being here, man.

Thank you very much.

All right, cheers, everybody. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us today on the Consistent Profits podcast brought to you by Inside Out Trading. Make sure to swing by InsideOutTrading.com and pick up your free copy of break the cycle 10 things you can do to stop reinforcing the past and get your trading on the right track. If you enjoyed the show, make sure to subscribe on your favorite channel and we'll see you on the next episode. Cheers.