Trading Prop Firm Insights from the CEO – Saul Lokier – Episode 047

Hello and welcome to the Consistent Profits podcast brought to you by Inside out trading and Brian McAvoy, where the focus is on consistency because when you have the consistent part down, profits become easy. Hello, everybody. This is Brian McAvoy with a new episode of the Consistent Profits podcast. I'm excited today to be interviewing Saul Lokir, CEO and senior portfolio manager at TheFibers.com. thanks so much for being here today.

Thanks, Brian, for the invitation. Excited to be here?

Yeah, indeed.

Glad to have you here, man. For those who are not. For those of you that are not already familiar with Saul, he's a talented forex trader with years of experience over. Over 10 years. He lectures in many recognized forms such as investing.com and FX Street. He also manages funds for international proprietary forex funds as well as his personal accounts. And I like how you got this on your site. This guy eats pips for breakfast. Thought that was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Again, thanks for being here today, man.

Yeah, thank you indeed.

Well, so, so you've been trading, you said it's actually over 10 years. Like about like 12, 13 years you said.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, go ahead.

No, sorry, I, yeah, I met trading. I, you know, made this opportunity of making a side income with trading in 2010 and then since then today, been trading.

Nice.

Well, so what were you doing before trading?

I was, I was studying and I was doing, you know, I was working in a hotel in the reception, so I was doing like night shifts, shifts and I was looking for an extra income and then I came up with some ads from brokers. You know, I don't think it's legal anymore, but you know, just invest $100 and use leverage to create an income and all of that. I didn't understand a word. And it took me like a two year process in order to make it, you know, to finally understand what it's trading about. There wasn't the amount of information available today back in the, back then. So it took me like a two years to actually make it and understand what I was doing. I had to make it, you know, like consistently so since then I've been, you know, making training one of my main sources of income, so.

Well, so you said you were studying. What, what were you studying?

You know, courses. My degree was in education.

Okay.

And I did like some, some courses and. Yeah, like courses in, in finances, of course. And yeah, that was, well, so that.

That was, that was your intended degree was education though?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

What, before you found trading. So when you started into school, what was, what did you envision for yourself, you know, go, you know, starting school, learning, you know, getting your education degree. What. What did you originally intend to be doing after school?

Yeah, so my, my two passions were finances and education. So I thought maybe I would, I would teach, you know, finances or you know, like. Yeah, like you know, Robert Kiyosaki tricks like personal finances and that kind of of of topics. But then, you know, I never, I never did that. So I once I, once I, I discovered trading and that was like a, that was like mind blowing for me. So. Yeah, never thought.

Oh, very cool. Very cool.

Well now of course with trading. So you. So you got pulled into. Through some ads with brokers and you've been. But you've been in trading pretty much ever since then.

All right.

Yeah, I have.

Okay.

Now before you started at the Fiverrs, you were with, were you trained by yourself or were you.

No.

You were a funded trader with aperi funds, correct?

Yeah. Yeah. So. So I have some losses and finally I came up with this company, the US company. I don't know if they're around anymore, the APR fund. So they used to teach you how to trade and then once you pass a certain amount of assessments and courses, then you would apply to become a fundraiser by them. And that, what, you know, that makes sense. That makes sense for me because they, it was in their best interest to teach me how to trade properly because I will be managing their, you know, their capital afterwards. So that's how I learned how to trade. And, and then I got funded by them. I, you know, I started managing their, their capital and I also opened like personal accounts. Later on I raised capital from investors and family and friends and that's how I grew my portfolio a little bit, you know, with different accounts. And then years after I, you know, I met the Fibers, the company, I didn't found the. The company was founded by, by gil Ben Hur 2016. And then I joined into. In 2020, I joined the company and I grew inside a company and today I run, you know, the, the operations run.

Yeah, yeah, very nice.

Well, so as far as, you know, what you guys have going on at the, at the Fiber. So one thing I like on your site, you know, you got entire sections and you know, in your navigation you got one devoted to strategy and one to psychology, which of course are both important.

Yep.

What's your personal opinion as far as which is the more important though?

I think it's not the strategy for. That's for sure. I think there's a lot of strategies and many Many strategies have the potential to be profitable strategies. It's just who's. Who's the driver? Right? It's not the car, it's not about the car, it's about the driver. So who's applying that strategy? So I think it's relatively simple to find a strategy. Then it's a more complex process into adapting that strategy to yourself, to your reality and your own situation. You know, where do you live, what's your risk appetite and what's your time availability and all of that like really, you know, tweaking the strategy to tune it into yourself. And then there's the risk management and the psychology aspect, which is the most most important because that's when, you know, if you don't have a proper risk management, it will be very, very hard to, you know, manage your emotions. And without management, you know, managing your emotions will be very, very hard to avoid, you know, large losses and avoid over trading and over leverage and all of that. So, so I would say strategy is the least important. And then risk management and psychology, they really come like, together being the, the most important aspect of, of trading.

All right, very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

And I would agree with your strategy. Some people, you know, they, they, they think strategies like that's where to focus all the time. And it's like, nah, it's not at the top of the list really. Now, speaking of risk management, I'm glad you brought that up. I saw that, what was a couple months ago that you did a demonstration live as far as basically saying, you know, that risk management really is the most important thing. And so you were entering trades randomly just to prove that. Yeah, you know, through risk management, you would be profitable. So, you know, how long did you run that? And can you share some of the, you know, what you did with that and some of the insights that you gained.

You've been spying, Brian. You've been following. Yeah. So I think if we're speaking about the same exercise I did that was based on the hypothesis that trade management and risk management is more important than the strategy or the direction you pick on in the market. So basically, you know, two profitable traders, they can trade the same asset, different directions and they can make money. So like two, Two, you know. Yeah, advanced traders. So, so that's what I attempted to do. So what, what I think on, on risk management and trade management is that we need to start small. Our positions, okay, we need to build a position. We shouldn't be allocating too much in one single entry in the market, but we need to build our position slowly, which is, you know, kind of, kind of similar to what institutional traders do. They need to push a lot of, you know, billions of dollars in the market, and they don't do it in one trade. They need to, you know, build their, their orders in the market. So it's a kind of, kind of the same exercise, but in the retail, you know, as in a retail approach. So, so the idea is to, through recent active management of the trade, you know, scaling into the trades, getting out of the trade, you can come up, you know, on top and profitable besides the direction you pick in the market. So that was like kind of the exercise. And, you know, every time I've done it, I think has been, has been successful. But if you, if you just start into trading can be a bit complex and overwhelming. But yeah, that's the idea.

Yeah, it can be an interesting exercise. I had to ask, though, because I've run across other traders. One of them I worked with years ago, and it was funny because, I mean, yeah, he was the same thing. It's like the entry really doesn't matter. He's like, everybody just focuses, you know, got to get that perfect entry. And it's like. Yeah, no, he says the, the trade management's where it's at. And so, yeah, he, he had a totally random entry system. He had everything down on a piece of paper as far as the different markets he could enter. And he would take his finger and he would go, that's what I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna trade. They'd flip a coin to say, that's the direction I think the market's gonna go. And he would enter the trade. Yeah, and it was cool because we, we got him profitable as far as laying out, you know, detailing a system and, and being able to get the consistent execution. That was, well, that was, that was. The other thing though is you can do it, but with any, any strategy, it's in the consistent execution of it.

Correct.

So. But yeah, and like I said, his whole point was the entry doesn't matter. And I thought that was so cool. And when I saw you did that, I had to ask you about it. So. Yeah, well, so having been at this for a while and you worked with aperi firm funds and you've also been with the fireworks for a little bit. You know, you've had a decent amount of experience in the trading world. You, you, you write, you post blogs and articles, right?

Yeah, less these days. Bit less. But back in the day, I used to write A lot and do a lot of webinars and. Yeah.

Well, you ever thought about writing a book? If you were to write a book, what would you write about?

You know, I'm not sure because I started, you know, writing one a couple of years ago. Like started with my own, you know, my own story, you know, how they started and the lessons since then. And then at the end, I don't think I have new things to say that's not written somewhere. You know, I haven't invented something new in the, in trading. It just, it's just being disciplined and following certain models of risk management and psychology and focusing on certain things. But it's not like, it's not like it's something new or it's like something I created. You know what I mean? So, so I, I don't know. I said myself. Okay, let's pause it right there. Maybe in the future I'll have a, a different, you know, side of things and I'll come back into that. But that's what I stopped it back then, I think probably today being in the funding side. So already being a retail trader and also now managing a fund now I have some insights that all retail traders and maybe educators, they don't have. I have like a different perspective of what, you know, how traders behave, for example, or what's a different kind of trading. Because now we do a lot of, you know, I do my own personal retail trading, but sometimes we need to do like speculative nostro trading, you know, in the firm and sometimes we need to make hedging trading just to, you know, hedge the exposure of the firm. So now I've been exposing to different aspects of trading that I wasn't, you know, exposed when I was just retail trading. So today I might have something to, you know, to some value to give today.

Oh, very cool.

Yeah, actually that would be excellent. And particularly being on both sides of the funded trading, you probably already have some. Yeah, very useful insights because you know, prop trading, it's been around for a while and only gotten recently. Really popular though.

Correct.

So there are a lot of people entering the space. So your experience and, and perspectives from different viewpoints within the space. Yeah. Would probably be very helpful because I know, I know there's some traders, you know, they, they view the, the funded or you know, the prop firms as just a bunch of sharks, you know. Yeah, they're just looking to turn and burn everybody, not really caring and it's like. No. So, yeah, being able to shed some different light on things and particularly because I know, a couple other guys that, that run funded firms, you know, prop firms, and I've learned a lot in talking with them just because when you're on the other side of. You have a different perspective. I mean some, some do run it like a casino where it's like, don't care, it's just a numbers game. Others, you got a whole different perspective on it. So we'll circle back to this. But yeah, I think that would be really worthwhile as far as, you know, when you, when write a book. Yeah, that would be a really, a good one to put out there and very timely because. Just because of the, you know, the way the trading space has changed over the last few years.

Correct.

Right.

Along with that. The other thing that of course is a topic of conversation, especially over this last year, is AI. And you know, you're also pretty, you've had some good exposure to algorithmic trading, right?

Yeah, not myself, but I, I've never run algorithmic trading or something. Okay, yeah, but there are traders within the fund that.

Okay, well, so where do you, where do you see AI, you know, what do you see as its place in the trading space? As things move forward, is it going to be where people are just having their AI trade forum or is it going to be like AI assisted Human Trading or, or cut off, you know, not at all. Still.

Most. Yeah, I think it's going to be, you know, there's a phrase about AI that AI will not change people or not substitute people, but it will, you know, people using AI will substitute people, not using AI. So probably with trading, it's going to happen something similar. So. Because I think AI will be able to give, especially, you know, the, the one that's connected, you know, the, the latest versions of AI that's connected already to what's going on in the market right now can give you a lot of insights of, you know, market sentiments and forecasts and all of that. And traders may use that into, you know, their trading activity in terms of AI taking trades and being profitable over time. I don't know. You know, eventually it might come. It can give you a lot of insights of, you know, market sentiments and forecasts and all of that. And traders may use that into, you know, their trading activity in terms of AI taking trades and being profitable over time. I don't know. You know, eventually it might come. I don't know how soon to, to be fair, I haven't seen, I've seen some demonstrations and it's not there and it's not even close you know, it's the same, same challenges. Every algorithm trading, you know, trading faces the fact that the market changes, you know, and it turns from. I don't know how soon to, to be fair, I haven't seen, I've seen some demonstrations and it's not there and it's not even close. You know, it's the same, same challenges. Every algorithmic trading, you know, trading faces the fact that the market changes, you know, and it turns from ranging to, you know, to, to trending to low volatile to high volatile. And I don't know if AI is, you know, the, the AI will need to be able to adapt fast enough in order to not lose money and know when to, you know, switch from strategy to strategy when the market context change ranging to, you know, to. To trending to low volatile to high volatile. And I don't know if AI is, you know, the, the AI will need to be able to adapt fast enough in order to not lose money and know when to, you know, switch from strategy to strategy when the market context changes. So once that that's in place, there might be some opportunities there for AI, you know, making trades.

Gotcha. Okay, yeah, very cool.

Well, now switching back to the 5 percenters and, and your site there, I know one of the things that you focus on a lot there.

So once that that's in place, there might be some opportunities there for AI, you know, making traits.

Gotcha. Okay, yeah, very cool.

Well, now switching Back to the 5sters and your site there, I know one of the things that you focus on a lot there and especially going back just a little bit, you know, you guys have made it a big, a big focus to, you know, really help traders succeed, provide the community and everything there. And like, even in your, you know, like your yearly recaps, which I think is very cool that you guys publish that. And especially, you know, going back just a little bit, you know, you guys have made it a big, a big focus to, you know, really help traders succeed, provide the community and everything there. And like, even in your, you know, like your yearly recaps, which I think is very cool that you guys publish that on your site, the yearly recaps. So. Well, now one thing that you, that you had done that I wanted to ask you about, I thought was kind of cool, you said in your 2022 recap, you said, we had a very exciting year in the Fire the Fibers. But we had a. And we had a very successful. And we had very successful projects through the year. Started a year with a new Plan on your site the early recaps. So now one thing that you, that you had done that I wanted to ask you about, I thought was kind of cool. You said in your 2022 recap, you said, we had a very exciting year in the five the fibers. But we had a, and we had a very successful and we had very successful projects through the year. Started here with a new program which was the Freestyle where we attempted to measure traders by performance factors, not by profit and loss. Great experiment. However, we needed to pause it because we figured out that we were funding the wrong traders. Some traders were using the factors differently than we thought. So, so I, when I read that, I was like, yeah, I gotta ask about that. So what kind of performance program which was the Freestyle where we attempted to measure traders by performance factors not by profit and loss correctly. A good experiment. However, we needed to pause it because we figured out that we were funding the wrong traders. Some traders were using factors differently than we thought. So, so I, when I read that, I was like, yeah, I gotta ask about that. So what kind of performance factors were you looking at and why do you see, you know, why did, why did the things go the way they did, do you think?

Yeah, so that was a pretty cool program, which I think if we were about to launch it again, we will succeed.

This type of factors were you looking at and why do you see, you know, why did, why did the things go the way they did, do you think?

Yeah, so that was a pretty cool program, which I think if we were about to launch it again, we will succeed this time. You know, we would have to, you know, to think about it because we learned a lot that we didn't know. You know, we would have to, you know, to think about it because we learned a lot that we didn't know when we, when we launched it. But the idea was to basically to measure how deep is the drawdown that a trader goes in the, in the account in order to make a certain amount of, of profit when we, when we launch it. But the idea was to basically to measure how deep is the drawdown that a trader goes in the, in the account in order to make a certain amount of, of profit. So if he's making and we call it the performance factor or something like that. So if he's making and we call it the performance factor or something like that. So if going into a drawdown of let's say 10%, we expect from him to make at least 20% or 30% on the account. So, so, so that's that's the ratio between drawdown in the account and the profit he's, you know, capable, capable to, to make. So that was the way that, that was the way we, we perceive them. The challenge was, you know, and traders, all rules and the parameters and everything that first there wasn't a maximum loss at any point, which was a mistake. And the second one that traders were, you know, places small, like tiny, tiny, tiny trades, you know, micro lots.

Right.

So the drawdown was minimal. And then a tiny profit in percentage. In percentage, percentage wise would be enough in order to be considered as the ratio we're looking for. So, so, so, so that, you know, you would see a lot of traders trading micro lots. Micro lots. Micro lots. Micro lots of. And then once funded, they will open 100 lots, you know.

Yeah.

And just blow the account and, and we will cover all those losses. So we just decided, okay, we need to, we need to stop this, you know, we carry on. There's still traders with those accounts because we needn't, we didn't stop those who registered, we just closed the registration. So we will not to figure out, figure out how to, you know, close those gaps and then we could relaunch that. But there was a, it was a good, good attempt. We just didn't know. Things we know today.

Okay, well, so how's that different? You said you were, you're measuring traders by performance factor. So it was like the ratio.

Yeah, that ratio that I'm.

And not by profit and loss. So I mean, because, because most prop firms, you know, they say, yeah, you know, these are, these are your goals we want you to hit in terms of dollars or percent of the account and yeah, you've got a, you know, a maximum drawdown. Now do you guys use a fixed drawdown where it's like just, you know, wherever, wherever you're starting, you can only go below a certain level or do you use more what's effectively like a trailing drawdown?

No, we don't have a trailing drawdown. So if you have like a 10 max drawdown, it stays there. If you grow, you can, you know, the maximum loss is still below the initial balance. Yeah, balance based drawdown.

All right, very cool.

Now, so what, what goals did you have set out for 2023? How 2023 go, as far as, you know, initiatives that you had for this last year?

Yeah, this was a workspace, Jordan.

All right, very cool.

Now so what, what goals did you have set out for 2023, how 2023 go as far as, you know initiatives that you had for this last year.

Yeah, this was a, was a great year. You know, we first we introduced the two step program which is a great year. You know, we first we introduced the two step program which is a very popular program in the industry. And we didn't offer it. We used to offer the one step program which is, you know, our flagship program. And we run with it many, many years. But there was a massive demand for the two step program. So we introduced that. So that was, you know, very well received. And then we launched our, you know, stocks brand which is Trader Pool, I believe you, you had a conversation with, with Michael who runs the. Yeah, Michael. Very popular program in the industry. And we didn't offer it. We used to offer the one step program which is, so we introduced that as well. And then of course there was a lot of infrastructure work in order to make that all of that happen. Our flagship program. And we run with it many, many years. But there was a massive demand for the two step program. So we introduced that. And then you know, there was, so that was, you know, very well received. And then we launched huge amount of companies, you know, coming into the industry. And not long ago, a couple of months ago, there was the shutdown of one of the largest ones. I don't know if you were yeah, aware of that, but one of the largest companies was closed by the cftc and of course many traders came to us and discovered us and we've been investing, you know, a lot our, you know, stocks brand which is Trader Pool, I believe you, you had a conversation with, with Michael who runs the. Yeah, Michael Katz. So we introduced that as well. And then of course there was a lot of, not a lot of this year we invested a lot of, in our traders, you know, a lot in, in terms of, you know, I, I see our risk department as a service to our traders because we, if we have a strong risk department, we can allow our traders to do more things. Okay. We can be, you know, we can, we can work better and we can allow them, you know, better conditions, infrastructure work in order to make that, all of that happens. So we introduce a new assets and we, we, you know, we develop some resources for them and we invested a lot in our community. So our community is a place where there's no external, you know, traders. You have to be active with us and there's a community manager there and we do like daily calls with them. So we really try to, you know, the traders who want to, you know, to, to get it, but we offer a Lot of value and resources in order to try to make our traders better because at the end of the day they will be managing our capital. So, so that's what we, what we did this year.

Very cool.

Now just so for, for those listeners who aren't familiar with prop firms, you said one step versus a two step program. What, what's the difference?

So, so basically it's you know, the amount of challenges you have to complete in order, you know, before you get funded. So we used to work with a one step program but the one step programs, although they have a, you know, they have a, a higher and then you know there was a huge amount of companies, you know, coming into the industry and not long ago, a couple of months ago there was the shutdown of one of the largest ones. I don't know if you were yeah aware for that but one of the success rate or passing rate and which is what it's my, my favorite one. But it's also a more expensive program. So the two step program is a bit difficult to pass or it's more difficult to pass that once the program but it's more affordable. So a lot of traders prefer to go into the two step or largest companies. It was closed by the CFTC and of course many traders came to us and discovered us and we've been investing, you know, a lot, a lot of this year we invested a lot of, in our traders, you know a lot in, in terms of program to put the effort in and then they can, you know, it's more, it's more affordable and then the accounts they start working with are larger than in the one step program. So that's pretty much the, the difference. Like the one step program is easier to pass, let's call it that way. But it's more expensive and you start working in smaller accounts. And in the super two step program, you know I, I see our Risk department as a service to our traders because we, if we have a strong work harder but the reward is also high. Higher.

Okay, so what, what are the different steps? You said one step and two step. What or is it just levels?

Yeah, levels. So in a one step program you, you know, you need to hit like 10 target and that's it. You're funded in the two step program. You need to hit on risk department. We can allow our traders to do more things. Okay. We can be, you know, we can, we can work better and we can allow them, you know, better conditions. 8% one time and then 5% the second time and then you're Funded.

Okay. Okay.

So it's, it's like one qualification versus two qualifications.

So we introduce a new assets and we, we, you know. Correct.

Okay. All right.

Yeah.

Huh. Very cool.

Well, and thank you for clarifying that now. So that's what you've had going on. What do you have on the, on the slate as far as things you want to get going in 2024?

Yeah, I don't, I can't, you know, disclose everything but we're going deeper into education. Okay. So we really want to build like we, we develop some resources for them and we invested a lot in an education sphere or something, you know, to. Because a lot of traders request or ask us, you know, we're not in the education business, you know, and we're not doing that currently and a lot of our educators or our traders are seeking for education. So. And we do not provide that. So we send in our community. So our community is a place where there's no external, you know, traders. You have to be active with us and there's a community manager there and we do like daily them to our partners, we call it. So we'll start putting like courses from our partners calls with them. So we really try to, you know, the traders who want to, you know, some of course is you know, from ourselves in one place, in one hub. So traders seeking for education can have all that education that we trust in one place. Because you know, you go into YouTube and you, you know, maybe you're aware of that brand but you will see, you know, Lamborghini is flying and, and you know, and it's hard to, you know, it's very overwhelming and confusing and you know where to start. So we're going to put all the information in one place for our traders and the second one we're going into more like also you know, to, to get it. But we offer a lot of value and resources in order to try to gaming and competitions and we're going to start running like. Yeah, like fun things like competitions, you know, trading competitions and all kinds. Yeah, that kind of. Of things in order to bring like more traders into the company to, you know, to, to discover us, to find about us, make our traders better because at the end of the day they will be managing our capital. So, so that's what we, that what we did this year.

Very cool.

Now just so for, for those listeners who aren't familiar with prop firms. You said very cool. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious to, to hear you say or I. It's exciting to hear you say the the competitions, the popularity of competitions kind of comes and goes, but they're, they're a lot of fun.

Yeah, they're fun.

Just seeing the, the different methods that get popular and are successful. No, I know several years ago during one of the spells when they were pretty popular, it seemed like the, the zigzag patterns would, I mean that was just, that's what all the winners were using and one step versus a two step program. What, what's the difference? So and they were just, it was crazy, crazy successful. And then it was a little shift away from it. And you know, of course there's a few other things that are, you know, getting pop. Gaining popularity now.

But yes, basically it's you know, the amount of challenges you have to complete in order, you know, before you get funded. So we used to work with a one step program, but the one where.

It'S like with AI and everything, we'll see, we'll see if the AI can help come up with some new, new strategy, make it work. Very cool. Well now one thing I got to ask, just because this is the Consistent Profits podcast, what do you see as probably the primary obstacle or, or mistake.

The programs, although they have a, you know, they have a, a higher stakes.

That traders make that keep them from realizing consistent profits.

I would. Okay. There's similar. Oh, okay. There are several factors. First, traders come with the wrong expectations to the market. You know with unrealistic expectation of what's doable. Okay. Success rate or passing rate and which is what we, it's my, my favorite way. So I think once you with the wrong expectation, I think that's like the roots. And then the symptom is you know, over leveraging, over lot sizing and all of that that you know, tends to blow the accounts one, but it's also a more expensive program. So the two step program is a bit difficult to pass or it's more difficult to pass. And this is something I, you know, I, I, I talk a lot in, you know, once the program is more affordable. So a lot of traders prefer to go into the two step. You know in the office. I study a lot our higher funded traders, you know we can offer, our traders can grow into millions of trader of, of dollars under management. And I tend to, you know, it's like a, you know, you have fewer and fewer managing larger accounts. So, so I, I program to put that effort in and then they can, you know, it's more effort tend to go in a closer relationship with those traders. So I talk to them and I Learn them. And I, you know, because we want to be very, very careful with what are they doing because they're managing a lot of, you know, a lot of capital for us. And when you talk to them, you find out they all do different things. They trade from different places in the world. They trade different strategies and different approaches into the market. It's more affordable. And then the accounts that start working with are larger than in the one step program. So that's pretty much the, the difference like the one step program. But if they do things, you know, they, they have certain patterns, easier to pass, let's call it that way. But it's more experienced that are very, very simple. But many traders or most traders are not doing those simple things. So, so one, one of them for example, is mastering what they do. You know, if you talk to these traders, they know inside out, inside like you're inside of a trading, okay. They know inside out what they do. So they know exactly when they should be trading, where shouldn't be trading, how much risk to take. What's an A pattern? What's a B pattern? A high quality setup, low quality setup, expensive. And you start working in smaller accounts. And in the super two step program, I mean everything, you know, the, the time they should be trading. So, so you just realize they master one strategy or different strategies, but they master what they do. And, and that's very, very, you work harder but the reward is also high. Higher.

Okay, so what, what are the different steps? You said one step and two step.

What?

Or, or is it important?

Because traders, you know, a lot of our traders, they don't understand as deep what are they doing or when should not be trading or they start looking for different strategies. And, and then you see under, you know, they have different accounts with us that they haven't been successful with those accounts just levels. Yeah, levels. So in a one step program you, you know, you need and you see each strategy or its account with a completely different behavior in it. Okay. Different trays, different lot size. So you see how inconsistent they are. So our, you know, our best traders master what they do. Our best traders journalize, you know, they record, you know, they really keep track of what they do of the trades of themselves. And then that process of you hit like 10 target and that's it, you're funded. In the two step program, you need to hit journalizing everything. They give them a lot. It's like a mirror, you know, it's like a, like yeah, really like a mirror of what you do, of how's Your trading, how you're doing yourself as well. So they do a lot of things. Of course they deal with losses. They know when to take those losses. 8% one time and then 5% the second time and then you're funded.

Okay. Okay.

So it's like one qualification versus two.

Qualifications they work with stop loss. So it's not something, you know, that this is not new to anyone, but it's just these guys are doing this in a disciplined way consistently and most of other traders are just trying to correct.

Okay. All right.

Yeah.

Huh. Very cool.

Well, and you know, make, you know, one home run instead of many singles, you know, if we go into, into baseball. So, so that's, that's the difference.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad to hear you bring, bring up the, the whole mastering thing because one, one drum I've been thumping for years is, and like you said, it's expectations. So many people look at trading and it's like, oh, easy, I can do that. Thanks for clarifying that now. So that's what you've had going on. What do you have? And it's like, no, this is a game of skill.

Yep.

And with a lot of the prop firms, especially when I hear somebody, you know, bashing prop firms saying, oh, you know, they're just looking to rip everybody off, it's like, no, all they ask is really what any trader should be asking of themselves anyway. And that is of on the, on the slate as far as things you want to get going in 2024.

Yeah, I, I don't, I, I can't, you know, disclose everything, but we're going.

Show up demonstrating that you can make money trading. That's all they're asking for. And you know, show up and if you've got the skills.

Cool.

They'll give you the funds to trade deeper into education. Okay. So we really want to build like.

But if you don't have the skills, it ain't gonna work.

Correct.

And so yeah, it's a game. It is totally a skill based, A skill based occupation. It's performance based.

Performance based. Yeah.

And so yeah, if you, if you're showing up and you've got the skill, you've got that level of competence and expertise or mastery like you're talking about. Yeah, trading. Well, the other thing, Speaking of psychology, one of my, the other thing, an.

Education sphere or something, you know, to. Because a lot of things, it's a.

Favorite of mine is, you know, a lot of people say, you know, how trading so emotional and everything and it's like no trading. When you reach that level of competence and mastery, it's no different than any other job.

Right.

You show up and, you know, some days are better than others, you know, you know, you enjoy the good days, bad days. It's like, okay, but nothing wrecks your life.

It's traders requests or ask us, you know, we're not in the education business, you know, and we're not doing that currently. And a lot of our educators or.

Our emotionally no different than any other job because you know what you're doing.

Correct.

And so yeah, the, the focus on ma that hitting that level of mastery and mastering what they're doing. Yeah.

Traders are seeking for so. And we do not provide that. So we send.

Yeah, I'm 100 with you on that.

So, you know, you know, what's the challenge, Brian? That process is a long process, you know, that in order, you know, like professional athletes and, and master, you know, it, it takes my, you know, it takes years in them to our partners, we call it. So we'll start putting like courses from our partners and some of courses, you know, from ourselves in one place, in one hub. So traders seeking for education can have all that education that we trust in one place. Because, you know, you go into YouTube and you, you know, maybe you're aware of that. In my experience, it's not, you know, it's not like you can become a trading master in, I don't know, in a couple of months. In my experience, it takes a year in order to, to get to that level. And most traders, at least most of the traders that come into us, they're not willing to go into that process. They just want like the shortcut in the success. So the Brian. But you will see, you know, Lamborghini is flying and you know, that's why they come and they try to make, you know, one high, you know, one good trade over leverage, try to make money and that's it. They don't want to go into that process of mastering, which would be much more rewarding in the long term than trying to, you know, make it once.

Oh, yeah.

Well, the flip side of that one. One of my favorite quotes from.

And it's hard to, you know, it's very overwhelming and confusing and you know where to start. So we're going to put all the information in one place for our traders.

And Jim Rohn, he said, he's, he says, don't wish that it were easier, wish that you were better.

Yeah.

And the cool thing about it is like you're talking about, yeah, you put in the time, you focus on mastering.

One going into more like also, you.

Know, it things get easier. It just, everything gets easier as you skill up, things get easier. So if you want the easy button, skill up.

Yeah. So. Yeah.

Very cool.

Very cool.

So when somebody, when somebody comes to the, to the fibers.

Yeah.

So what, what usually is like the process that people go through when, when it come to you, what's, what's the experience like?

You know we have thousands of traders and thousands of experience but you asking gaming and competitions and we're going to start running like for those who make it or those who fail or, or.

What maybe for, for like our listeners today if they're curious to, you know what, what it's like to come work with you.

Yeah.

You know what, what's the process like coming on board and getting started with you and all that first.

Yeah. Like fun things like competitions, you know, trading competitions and all kinds. Yeah, that kind of things. In order to. I truly believe it's a, it's an incredible opportunity. You know Brian, when I raised to bring like more traders into the company to, you know, to discover us, to find about us capital from investors, it was a nightmare. It was super stressful, you know, because then they will call you and they will email you and what is this loss and what, what happened there and it's very, very, very stressful. And today having this opportunity of managing someone else money and large money, you.

Know, it's not very cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm curious to, to hear you say.

It'S, it's good money. It's, it's unbelievable. And, and what we, what we attempt to do and this is what we do. Every, every, you know, we come into work with this mantra in our heads. How can we provide more value to our traders today?

So you, that's exciting to hear you say the, the competitions, the popularity of.

The competition coming to the fibers, you will first become part of a community that it's going to be there for you. You know, traders choose to take advantage of that. Other traders, you know, choose not to do that. But it's going to be there. You're going to see a lot of.

Reasons kind of comes and goes, but they're, they're a lot of fun.

Yeah, they're fun.

Just seeing the different methods that get popular and are successful.

No, I know sources available for you. You go in the hub, you will see tools and webinars and courses and all kind of resources for you available. And of course the, the accounts, the, the, our evaluation Programs which they have built in the risk parameters we're expecting for our traders to, you know, to, To. To trade by. So instead of going into that process of, okay, what.

Several years ago during one of the spells when they were pretty popular, it.

Seemed like, what risk parameters should I be applying? Or what's good for me or, or that we, We. We have implemented that into the programs already. So some programs, they have, you know, daily pauses. Okay. If you, if you've taken too, too much risk in one single day, the.

The zigzag patterns, what I mean, that was just, that's what all the winners were using.

And it will pause you. You can come back fresh tomorrow. For example, we have programs with a, with a stop loss requirement. So you will have to place a stop.

And they were just. It was crazy, crazy successful. And then it was little shift loss.

Which is a good habit that if you don't have that, you know, that in place as a, as a rule, it's very, it's very hard by yourself.

To apply away from it. And you know, of course there's few other things that are, you know, getting pop. Gaining popularity now, but yes, that, so.

We will, we'll try to, you know, to, To. To. To have in place the risk parameters already for you, and that will be very beneficial for you and of course the opportunity to scale. You know, when, when you grow in your own retail account, you work hard, you grow it, and then you have this dilemma. Do I withdraw my profits or do.

I scale like with AI and everything? We'll see. We'll see if the AI can help come up with some new, new strategies, make it work.

Do I grow my account? So we solved that problem already because we're given the opportunity to withdraw profits and at the same time to scale your account so you don't have to choose between the two. So, so I, I think that's you. You will see a lot, a lot of value and opportunity when you come with us.

Very cool. Well, now, one thing I got to ask. Just because this is the Consistent Profits podcast, what do you see is probably the primary obstacle or, or mistake?

Very cool. Very cool indeed.

And the best place to connect aches that traders make that keep them from realizing consistent profits with you is just@the fibers.com, right?

Yeah, the fibers.com. if you want to reach out, there's, you know, go to the website. There's help@the fibers.com. that's the email of the company and social media, YouTube, you know, happy to, to connect.

Okay, very good. Very good.

Well, I tell you what, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day for this today, especially considering. Yeah it's where you're at. It's like evening for you now. So. Yeah. Thank you again for doing it and for everybody.

I would. Okay. There's similar. Oh, okay.

That's, that's listening. Today I, I applaud you for taking time out of your day to learn and you know, develop yourself as a trader. Glad you're here. If you, you know, if, if you think prop, you know, platform trading, funded trading is, you know, might make sense for your goals.

Several factors. First, traders come with the wrong expectations.

With your trading and everything. And you like what Saul has to say here. Definitely swing by the fivers.com I'd like will be down in the description down below in the show notes and for.

The market know with unrealistic expectation of what's doable. Okay.

Go ahead and connect with him, take a look at what he's got and if it makes sense, go ahead and take action on what.

So I think once you with the wrong explication, I think that's like you've.

Heard today, don't just have this be, you know, a podcast where it's like, oh yeah, you know, that was fun and then you forget about it and, and it's just lost. Go ahead and act on what you've, you know, what you've heard today and take action, you know, so that your trading becomes better. I mean, because you're trading for a reason and it, you know, if this will help you, you know, if salt can help you become a more successful.

Trader, then cool the roots and then the symptom is, you know, over leveraging, over lot sizing and all of that that you know, tends to blow the accounts.

Act on it, make it happen. So let's go and wrap things up again. Saul, thanks for taking the time out of your day and being here. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you again everybody. If you, you know, if you enjoyed this, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and we'll see you on the next episode of Consistent Profits podcast.

Cheers.

Bye Bye. And this is something I, you know, I, I, I talk a lot in, you know, you know, in the office. I study a lot. Our higher funded traders, you know, we.

Can thank you for joining us today on the Consistent Profits podcast brought to you by Inside Out Trading. Make sure to swing by InsideOutTrading.com and pick up your free copy of break the cycle 10 things you can do to stop reinforcing the past and get your trading on the right track. If you enjoyed the show, make sure to subscribe on your favorite channel and we'll see you on the next episode.

Cheers.

Our traders can grow into millions of trader of, of dollars under management. And I tend to, you know, it's like, you know, you have fewer and fewer managing larger accounts. So, so I tend to go in a closer relationship with those traders. So I talk to them and I learn them and I, you know, because we want to be very, very careful with what are they doing because they're managing a lot of, you know, a lot of capital for us. And when you talk to them, you find out they all do different things. They trade from different places in the world. They trade different strategies and different approaches into the market. But they, they do things, you know, they, they have set certain patterns that are very, very simple. But many traders, or most traders are not doing those simple things. So, so one, one of them for example, is mastering what they do. You know, if you talk to these traders, they know inside out, inside like you're inside of a trading, okay, they know inside out what they do. So they know exactly when they should be trading, weight, shouldn't be trading, how much risk to take. What's an A pattern, what's a B pattern? A high quality set of low quality setup. I mean everything, you know, the, the time that should be trading. So, so you just realize they master one strategy or different strategies, but they master what they do. And, and that's very, very important because traders, you know, a lot of our traders, they don't understand as deep what are they doing or when should not be trading or they start looking for different strategies and, and then you see under, you know, they have different account with us that they haven't been successful with those accounts. And you see each strategy or its account with a completely different behavior in it. Okay. Different trays, different lot size. So you see how inconsistent they are. So our, you know, our best traders master what they do. Our best traders journalize, you know, they record, you know, they really keep track of what they do of the trades of themselves and then that process of journalizing everything they give them a lot. It's like a mirror, you know, it's like a, like, yeah, really like a mirror of what you do, of how's your trading, how you doing yourself as well. So they do a lot of things. Of course they deal with losses, they know when to take those losses. They work with, stop loss. So it's not something, you know, that this Is not new to anyone. But it's just these guys are doing this in a disciplined way consistently and most of other traders are just trying to, you know, make, you know, one home run instead of many singles, you know, if we go into, into baseball, so, so that's, that's the difference.

Well, I'm glad to hear you bring, bring up the, the whole mastering thing because one, one drum I've been thumping for years is, and like you said, it's expectations. So many people look at trading and it's like, oh, easy, I can do that. And it's like, no, this is a game of skill.

Yep.

And with a lot of the prop firms, especially when I hear somebody, you know, bashing prop firms saying, oh, you know, they're just looking to rip everybody off, it's like, no, all they ask is really what any trader should be asking of themselves anyway. And that is show up, demonstrating that you can make money trading. That's all they're asking for. And you know, show up and if you've got the skills, cool. They'll give you the funds to trade. But if you don't have the skills, it ain't gonna work.

Correct.

And so, yeah, it's a game. It is totally a skill based, A skill based occupation. It's performance based.

Performance based. Yeah.

And so yeah, if you, if you're showing up and you've got the skill, you've got that level of competence and expertise or mastery like you're talking about. Yeah, trading. Well, the other thing, speaking of psychology, one of the other things that's a favorite of mine is, you know, a lot of people say, you know, how trading so emotional and everything and it's like, no trading, when you reach that level of competence and mastery, it's no different than any other job.

Right.

You show up and, you know, some days are better than others, you know, you know, you enjoy the good days, bad days. It's like, okay, but nothing wrecks your life. It's emotionally no different than any other job because you know what you're doing.

Correct.

And so, yeah, the focus on that, hitting that level of mastery and mastering what they're doing. Yeah, I'm 100 with you on that.

So, you know, you know, what's the challenge, Brian? That process is a long process, you know, in order, you know, like professional athletes and master, you know, it takes my, you know, it takes years. In my experience, it's not, you know, it's not like you can become a trading master in a couple of months. In my experience, it takes a year in order to get to that level. And most traders, at least most of the traders that come into us, they're not willing to go into that process. They just want, like, the, the shortcut, if the success. So that's why they come and they try to make, you know, one high, you know, one good trade over leverage, try to make money, and that's it. They don't want to go into that process of mastering, which would be much more rewarding in the long term than trying to, you know, make it once.

Oh, yeah.

Well, the flip side of that one, one of my favorite quotes from Jim Rohn, he said, he's. He says, don't wish that it were easier. Wish that you were better.

Yeah.

And the cool thing about it is, like, you're talking about. Yeah. You put in the time, you focus on mastering it, things get easier. It just, everything gets easier as you scale up. Things get easier. So if you want the easy button skill up.

Okay.

So.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Very cool.

So when somebody, when somebody comes to the, to the fibers.

Yeah.

So what, what usually is, like, the process that people go through when they come to you? What's. What's the experience like?

You know, we have thousands of traders and thousands of experience, but you're asking for.