In this solo episode of the No Days Off podcast, host Brian Gubernick reflects on a conversation he had during an endurance event with a fellow athlete about Lance Armstrong. He recounts Armstrong’s rise, his extensive doping scandal, and his prolonged denial of responsibility, culminating in a 2013 admission that still deflected blame. Gubernick uses Armstrong’s story as a cautionary example of what he calls a failure to practice Jocko Willink’s "Extreme Ownership" leadership philosophy. He outlines the five core tenets of extreme ownership—complete accountability, leading by example, setting aside ego, focusing on solutions, and empowering through responsibility—contrasting each with Armstrong’s behavior. The episode then challenges listeners to self‑evaluate their own leadership habits, urging them to adopt full ownership in daily life and work. The narrative is framed by Gubernick’s personal experience, a brief historical overview of Armstrong’s scandal, and a motivational call to action for continuous improvement.
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Thank you for joining me today. It's Brian Gubernick, and welcome to the No Days Off podcast, where we believe that every single day brings a new opportunity to get better. Just a week or two ago, a couple weeks ago, I was doing an endurance event that probably many of you that, that follow No Days Off or follow me You probably heard me talking about or saw me talk about it on Instagram or wherever it may be. But during that event, I got an opportunity to spend time with a lot of different individuals as I was running and hiking for a few days span. One particular person that I met, we started talking and it was random how this happened, but she lives in Austin and she's been in endurance sports for a long time. And triathlon in particular. And somehow, some way, we ended up talking about Lance Armstrong. Lance is also— I believe he's still in Austin. He was at least— he at least had spent a lot of time in Austin, maybe still there. And we started talking about Lance Armstrong, and she was sharing with me, um, how the perception of Lance Armstrong is a pretty complex one. And it really— like, how you perceive the individual, you know, Lance Armstrong, is really depending on the audience you're part of. I mean, don't forget, if you don't know Lance Armstrong's story, I won't go too deep into it, though I will touch on it here in a moment, but Lance was doping in cycling, and he denied it for years and years, and ultimately it came out. So here we are a decade-plus later, he's still a pretty polarizing figure. A lot of people view him with skepticism due to, due to his past lies and the scandal that he was part of. I know he's aimed to kind of redeem himself and rebrand himself, talking about the lessons learned from his experience, but that wasn't until just recently. He spent many a year in denial. So we were talking about Lance Armstrong and she was sharing some of her thoughts with me and I don't know what, you know, what made me do it, but after we finished for the day, I started looking up Lance and trying to figure out what happened to him and where he's at today. And it occurred to me, or I asked myself the question, what ultimately did Lance do that, that led to his demise? Like, what, what did people really mislike, or dislike I should say, uh, um, and, and, and really have them lose their faith in him? I mean, this guy, this guy was the greatest athlete in the world at one time. And I'll tell you, in observing or reading the story, the conclusion I came to was that Lance displayed the opposite of what Jocko Willink calls extreme ownership. Lance denied involvement in a doping scandal that led to the downfall of his career. For years— so the background to this— for years, Lance denied allegations of using performance-enhancing drugs. He had this public persona of a champion, and, and he was a cancer survivor, and he said he, he was clean. And he aggressively— if you go back in time and watch any of the interviews, as I did, he was pretty aggressive in his, in his attacks of anybody that accused him of doping. He even would, would say that people were saying this about him because they were jealous, or they were rivals, or they were trying to undermine his success. It wasn't until 2012 though, after, after an exhaustive investigation by the U.S., I think it's Anti-Doping Agency, that the truth finally began to surface. There was a report that came out that revealed that Armstrong had led what they said was at the time one of the most sophisticated doping, doping schemes in sports history. He involved teammates. It had— it was all sorts of cover-ups, systematic cover-ups. And even when faced with overwhelming audience, audience evidence, Lance continued to deny responsibility for his actions. And he continued to deny the impact that his actions had on the sport. He finally admitted to doping in a 2013 interview with Oprah Winfrey, and he framed, though, even though he admitted it, he framed his actions within a certain context, that he was under pressure, that competition was what drove it, he had no choice. Instead of taking full ownership, He blamed it on everything else. He discussed how he felt compelled to win and, and the culture of doping in cycling, you know, made it okay. And he never fully accepted responsibility for deceiving the public, deceiving his teammates, deceiving the sport itself. His failure to take extreme ownership not only damaged that reputation of his, which he's still trying to fight for today, you know, win back today. But it led to the loss of his 7 Tour de France titles, and he had all sorts of financial penalties. Basically, his story serves as a cautionary tale about the importance of integrity, of accountability in leadership and in sports. Again, still today, His perception is, is a rather complex one, and he's still rather polarizing. And I don't know if he'll ever get it back, much like unfortunately Pete Rose, which we'll talk about another day. Now, why am I talking about this? As I mentioned, you know, this whole conversation around Lance Armstrong came up, started looking at him and analyzing why did— why was it such a downfall? Like, and my conclusion was he took no ownership. And it brought me back to Jocko Willink's book about extreme ownership. And it— what did he mean when he talked about extreme ownership? He refers to a leadership philosophy where individuals take full responsibility for everything that's in their domain, including the outcomes, whether they're good outcomes or bad outcomes, they own them. This concept of Jocko's is based on the idea that that leaders must own their decisions and the results of their team's actions, no matter what circumstances arise. So what is extreme ownership made up of? Number 1, it's complete accountability. Leaders, as you are if you're listening to the No Days Off podcast, leaders cannot blame others. Leaders do not blame circumstances. They do not blame external factors for their failures. As a leader, you take full responsibility for your team's failures. And instead of talking, you know, making excuses, you don't waste your time there, you seek solutions. The ownership extends to everything, even when the failure seems out of your control. You own it all, complete accountability. Number 2, leadership, extreme ownership, and that type of leadership is leadership by example. Leaders set the tone for their team. When a leader, in my opinion, accepts responsibility for their mistakes, it actually encourages team members, employees, peers to do the exact same. This is a mindset. This mindset builds trust. It strengthens the team because everyone is then held accountable and focuses on solving problems rather than shifting blame. So, if you are the leader and you accept responsibility for everything it will encourage those around you to do the same. And when they do that, trust builds, teamwork strengthens. Extreme Ownership, you know, number 3 also requires no ego. You got to set aside your ego. Leaders must admit their mistakes and they have to accept blame when things go wrong. So, this is a degree of humility that a leader must have. In order to learn from their mistakes and to continuously improve. This is the growth mindset that must exist in the best of teams. Fourth principle I'd say that falls under extreme ownership, it's a pure focus on solutions. It's not worth dwelling on who's at fault. Instead of dwelling on who's at fault, the focus should shift to what can be done to fix the problem. And to prevent it from happening again. So Willig— Jocko would tell you to take proactive steps and always seek improvements to achieve whatever the mission may be. And then lastly, in terms of key principles of Extreme Ownership, I think there's this empowerment through responsibility. When leaders take ownership, they empower themselves to find ways to improve situations. Once a leader accepts total responsibility, they gain the power to change outcomes by addressing maybe the root causes or making adjustments. And this leads to, you know, managing or leading a team more effectively. So why am I talking about this? I'm telling you why Lance Armstrong, one of the many reasons why frankly, he plummeted and why he still can't come back today. It's because he denied and he never owned what he did, even when he had multiple opportunities to do it. And I don't have any, you know, I'm kind of indifferent, but I'm just trying to learn from what others have gone through. I think that if Lance Armstrong, maybe not even the first time, while I hate that he lied, Maybe if he, you know, a year later came back and said, you know what, I lied, I panicked, I could accept it. But the guy went years blaming everybody else. And that lack of ownership created this entire scenario that he's been trying to dig out of. I think we could learn a lot from that. Instead of the Lance approach, what would the opposite look like? As a leader, and I want you to think about this as you look in the mirror today, Are you taking extreme ownership? Do you have complete accountability or do you shift blame? Do you not maybe necessarily blame to others all the time, but maybe it's the circumstances, maybe it's the external factors. It doesn't matter if you listen to Jocko, you take full responsibility. Are you leading by example? Are you putting your ego aside? Are you focused on solutions? And lastly, Are you taking ownership and empowering yourself to find ways to improve situations? I think these are things that are worth thinking about as you aim to get better as a leader each and every day. That's all I have for you today, the No Days Off Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, every single day brings a new opportunity to get better. So let's get after it.
