Brian Gubernick lost his temper in a one-on-one meeting and uses it to examine two ideas: Mac Newton's teaching that attitude flows from your expectations about outcomes, and Jocko Willink's extreme ownership, where leaders own everything their team does. He maps out how to do the conversation differently next time.
Chapters
Thank you for joining me today. It's Brian Gubernick, and welcome to the No Days Off podcast, where we believe that every single day brings a new opportunity to get better. Today we are going to have an opportunity to get better at my, at my expense, because a few days ago I I had a call with a colleague of mine. It was our standing call that we have every couple weeks where we check in and we review projects, we talk around what's going right, what's maybe opportunity for improvement, kind of the standard one-to-one that you would have with a work colleague. I showed up though to that meeting frustrated, impatient, And I think I unintentionally— not I think, I know I unintentionally kind of let it rip. Like, I was emotional for whatever reason and I let it go. And I started unloading pretty much everything that was bothering me, what wasn't getting done and how I was frustrated, the lack of clarity around things, how I thought others weren't necessarily pulling their weight. And it turned into this venting session. I was not constructive. I certainly wasn't calm. And worst of all, I was not leading. I got off that call and I immediately thought to myself, damn, that was not me at my best. I think I even scared my colleague a bit. I could tell by her reaction and how she went quiet, um, that, that I showed up in a way that I don't typically ever show up. It was a real moment of weakness for me. But I also think that having now had some time to reflect, it definitely taught me a few things, or reminded me of a few things that are rather important. And again, I'm hoping that maybe you could learn from this as well. So, the first thing that I got to thinking around was attitude, my attitude. And naturally, it's going to draw me then to my mentor, a friend of the podcast, and somebody we've talked about so much over the years, Mac Newton, his philosophy on attitude. Mac Newton once said, attitude is not only important, attitude is everything. I mean, my kids literally have posters hanging up in the room from, from Mac Newton that say attitude is everything on it. That always sounded really good to me, but I don't know if I've ever really understood what it meant. I mean, I understand conceptually what it means, but I hadn't really, at least that I recall, kind of had a challenge or test with my attitude. But then I, I lived through this moment with this particular call, and Mac taught me that attitude isn't something you're born with or something you're stuck with. It's built from your expectations about outcomes. Let me restate that one more time. Mac said your attitude is not something you're born with or something you're even stuck with. It's built from your expectations about outcomes. If you expect things to go poorly, then you're going to show up guarded, tense, annoyed. You're going to carry a bad attitude. And if you expect things to go well, you're probably confident, you're open, you're collaborative, you likely carry a good attitude. I think it's that simple. But here's the real key. I think winners create their expectations in advance. They decide ahead of time This is going to go well. I'm going to find a solution. I will lead this. I think that's how these leaders, you know, those winners, I should say, build a strong, positive mental attitude, one that serves them no matter what. To Mack's quote, a positive mental attitude is absolutely essential for experiencing consistent success. Now, after reflecting on that conversation, I realized it wasn't just about my attitude. It was also about my ownership, or I should say lack thereof. And if you're going to talk about attitude, you think Mack Newton. If you talk about ownership, particularly extreme ownership, then you got to think about Jocko Willink. Second part of the equation here, when I snapped, I wasn't just bringing the wrong attitude, I was abandoning ownership. And that, that's not something I typically do. But I, again, as I reflect, I was abandoning ownership. And Jocko Willink teaches that there are no bad teams, there's only bad leaders. Now, that doesn't mean that everything is your fault, but it is your responsibility. And in that moment, that conversation, I, I think I was probably blaming others for unclear expectations or for inaction or for miscommunication. But the real truth The real truth, I think, I hadn't really clarified what needed to be done by me, by myself. I hadn't really clarified expectations that I should have or they should have, others should have of me. I hadn't stepped up. I hadn't led anybody. I hadn't led myself. I think extreme ownership means looking in the mirror every time. And I think it's about saying, you know, where did I drop the ball? What didn't I communicate? What culture did I allow, or am I actively participating in? What's my DNA here? And by the way, if, if I find that maybe I'm not influencing any of it, okay, then the question becomes, it's still on me. It's still on me. It's not— doesn't mean everything's my fault. It just means it's my responsibility to go to go solve for it, to go find a solution. I think the most important question would be, how do I fix this moving forward regardless of the variables? That's the extreme ownership concept. Now, what's the connection here between the two, attitude and ownership? I think this is where the two ideas overlap. When I carry a bad attitude and, and I'm expecting things to not go right way, the right way, I think I saw myself blaming others for it. And when I carry a great attitude and extreme ownership, I expect success. And as a result, I want to lead the charge to create it. So I think Mack and Jocko are saying kind of two sides of the same thing. You control more than you think. Your outcomes, your energy, your relationships, they start with mindset. And they start with your responsibility. It's a combination of those things, your mindset and your ownership, your responsibility. So now that I've kind of walked through the early conversation and walked through the mistakes I, I, I believe I made in both my attitude and my lack of ownership, I want a do-over. What would the replay look like? What should I have done? I think if I could do it over again, I'd show up to that call with a totally different tone. I would have expected, and that's a key word here, Akira, I would have expected us to find clarity, not complain about the lack of it. I'd say, hey, here's where I failed, maybe to lead or to play my role, and here's how I propose we clean it up. I'd also ask, how can we get better? Forget about what we're dealing with right now. Forget that. Forget about the hand that's been dealt. How do we get better and how do we do that together? See, that's the, that's the kind of leader I want to be. And I think honestly, that's the, the leader that, that my company and my people and those I have the opportunity to influence deserve. So in closing, I think there's maybe some— hopefully there's some takeaways for you here. I want you to ask yourself, where am I carrying the wrong attitude? What am I expecting that's shaping my mindset? And then lastly, what have I been blaming others— what have I been blaming others for that, that maybe I need to own? Pick a tough situation this week and, and run through it with this Mack and Jocko filter. Am I expecting the best and am I taking full responsibility? Is my attitude right and am I owning it? If you're not expecting the best, if you're not taking full responsibility, great. This is an awareness exercise. Now you get to adjust. You get to lead better. You get to show up better. And that's just That's just a matter of doing some work. On that note, that's all I have for you today, the No Days Off Podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and remember, every single day brings a new opportunity to get better. So let's get after it.
