Bogota Unveiled: Navigating the Streets, Cuisine, and Business Landscape

Welcome to the Nearshore Cafe podcast, home to the most interesting stories and people doing business in Latin America.

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Nearshore Cafe podcast. I'm Brian Sampson, your host and on the Nearshore Cafe we talk about people doing business in Latin America. And we have a special treat today. If you are interested in Colombia and Bogota and culture, food, doing business, working in tech. This is going to be a really fun one. But first let me thank our sponsor, Plug Technologies, plugg Tech. Plug is a great way to find software developers all over Latin America for growing U.S. companies. But let's get into our show. Today we have Ricardo Marquez and Jonathan Ruiz. Welcome guys to the show.

Ryan, thank you for having us today.

Thanks Ryan. It's a pleasure to be here.

Absolutely. Both of you are from not only Colombia, but the biggest city, Bogota. A lot of our listeners have curiosity about latam, but maybe they haven't visited everywhere, myself included. I have yet to make it to Bogota. Could you give us a sense of just life in Colombia, life in Bogota, what is that like?

All right, let me take it first and start from the, from the basics. Bogota is a city high up in the mountains, so it feels very foolish usually, but it's weather wise. But also like a dire wise is really funny because you can actually go through the whole spectrum in the same day. So in the mornings it goes down to like, you know, maybe 30 or 32, 35, midday can go out to 80. And because it's the equator and it's up in the mountains, it rains almost every day. So then you have to have some kind of like, you know, coat or umbrella or something like that. And it goes down to like the 40s when it rains and then up to 60 when it's night. So. So you have to be really prepared with a lot of layers that are water resistant to go through a day in Bogota. But it's a city that is very plush in terms of nature, trees. The development of the city has done a lot of good in that sense. And that's one of the things that I really miss about it is that mix of urban development, plush forests, and of course I have to say that sometimes the traffic is incredibly slow. But in the last thing that I would say is because the traffic is so slow, public transportation is something that has been something that works really well in the city.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's, that's how I grew up. That's how I moved all around and you know, I miss not having to need a car to move around In a city as big as Motown. Yeah.

Now, did you both grow up in the same neighborhood in the city?

That's a good question. Do you know which part of the city you grew up, Jonathan? I don't know.

I grew up in the south of the city, but, yeah, I mean, I.

Grew up in the north, yeah.

Oh, you grew up in north. Gotcha.

So, yeah.

So just to echo what Ricardo said, I actually came to the States when I was 10. So, you know, my memories of Colombia are very, of course, limited because I grew up there until I was 10. But, yes, you know, some of the things that I do remember, the weather and, you know, how cold it gets at night. You actually have to sleep with a couple of blankets. Like, really thick blankets.

That's right.

For the listeners. I now live in Miami, which is the total opposite. Very hot. And I sleep with a very thin. Just a tiny blanket. But anyway, so I remember that. Something that I recall very vividly is it's an event that happens on Sundays. It's called La Ciclovia. And they close down a whole street so cars don't pass, and everyone gets out and they can take out their kids. It's safe, because there's no cars. And they can ride bikes, they can ride skates. So I remember skating with my siblings. So you have this very wide street just for you to skate and ride bikes. So I recall that vividly when I was younger.

Yeah. That's something that I've really come to appreciate about latam overall is just an emphasis on major plazas, pedestrian streets. Of course, there's always traffic to contend with, but they really seem to make a special focus to provide spaces for people.

Absolutely, absolutely. And the thing that I remember now that Jonathan has brought so many memories with the circle, also, how you can make it a social event. So you go out with friends, of course, and then you ride together. But you can stop to get, you know, fresh fruit juice in almost every, you know, every block. Or you can get some kind of, like, you hear music anywhere. So you have all these groups of people getting together as well as, like, doing sports. And that social openness is something that, you know, the weather allows and kind of like, you know, people are really open, and that community is really great.

Yeah, yeah. It's not. It's not 100 degrees outside. There's.

Right.

You can be together. Yeah. So, you know, when I think of, you know, various countries, what I love about latam is just the nuances, you know, country by country and say Argentina, you know, has Strong Italian influence. How about Colombia? You know, where are some of the influences? And maybe also talk about maybe the expat community as well in Colombia.

One great example. That was really well done. I don't know if you, Brian, or listeners have watched Encanto, the Disney movie. Oh, that came out a couple years ago. Yeah, I feel like that movie.

My kids like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that movie really encompasses, you know, what Colombia is and, you know, the influences that, you know, you have the European, of course, you have the African. Right. Which is very, very ingrained in our. In our culture, the music. Right. I grew up listening to salsa.

Yeah.

You know, I learned how to dance when I was probably three years old. I'm not kidding. And, you know, I also want to instill that in my children now that we lived in the States, although it's a little different. But, yeah, so much influence. Also. The indigenous. Right, the indigenous in Colombia as well. Very, very, very heavily influenced. So. Yeah. Anyway, Ricardo, you want to say something?

Oh, no. Well, I mean, so. So, so many things to.

To.

To tell, actually, about the sbed, but to your question, I think that to Jonathan's point, there is this whole Bogota is a plateau, and you used to also have a really strong indigenous community that became farmers. And when my grandparents grew up, and then like, you know, like, kind of like my tradition, my family has been there for several generations, and there is this mix of, like, the urban sprawl happening and at the same time, kind of like the farmers mixing. So you would find, you know, farmers markets that would be really close to, like, very affluent neighborhoods. And that was really appealing to expats, like in the last century. Now, what I hear and what I see, sometimes I go there for projects and to work with teams there. What I hear is that the expat community, it's still fairly, fairly small and fairly located in specific parts of the city, like the Northeast, for example. But because of that influence and because of how the city has grown, then they still keep some of those, you know, like, traditions. But for example, the restaurant scene has expanded immensely. So. So I was studying Jonathan at some point, I think I mentioned to you, the best St. Louis ribs I've had in my life were in Bogota. Why? I have no clue. It's just that I don't know if it's a materials or anything, but they were really, really great. So definitely recommend it for people who want to go, you know, spend a week in Bogota or something like that to navigate the restaurant scene. It's Very good. And it has also, you know, to Jonathan's point, I remember this teeny, teeny restaurant in the midd. The city that is a mix of African roots and southern indigenous food. And it's just amazing. It's something that I've never seen before anywhere. So definitely recommend it.

That's incredible. Just the different cultures that melt in Colombia. It sounds quite unique. I can't think of another country with this European, this Spanish, this African convergence.

Yeah, no, definitely, definitely. And it's interesting because, you know, now, you know, some of us have gotten a chance to go to Europe, right. And now you can see, you know, certain aspects in Europe. Right. In Barcelona, in the little plazas, and you're like, oh, I can see how that influenced the way that we designed our streets, you know, and how, you know, the colonizers came in and they sort of like, try to. But it's also like a different flavor of it, you know, so it's pretty interesting. So I think, you know, to. To piggyback on the food scene. I think I've heard multiple friends who are not Colombian, who've been to Bogota, who've been to different cities in Colombia, and they've all said that Bogota has the best food scene in Colombia, which I thought was very, very interesting. Yeah. Because I've been to Medellin, Cartagena and different cities, Cali. But apparently, yes, Bogota has, in terms of like, diverse, like, in terms of culinary experiences, diverse, you know, from like super high end restaurants or like street food. You know, Bogota seems to be. So that's. That's an interesting. I don't know, Ricardo, if you've ever heard that, but that's what I've heard from my friends.

Well, I hear that is that it's actually, you know, renowned in South America now, you know, because the industry has grown so much and it has a specialized. Yeah. And that's what got me curious into like trying different things. And that's how I ended up with the. With like, you know, like amazing, you know, that kind of stuff.

That's cool.

But when I was a kid, that was none of that, you know, it was. It was very much like, you know, very traditional Colombian food, which is also really good. But it's very different. Yeah.

And just expand on that. How would you describe traditional Colombian food?

Oh, man.

From Bogota.

Okay.

I guess I have to talk about ajiaco. You know, start from there because there is a lot of stews and a lot of soups, and ajiaco is like this mix of different Types of potato, like, you know, products, and they melt into these very creamy chicken broth like, flavor and mixed with some very aromatic herbs, then they create this mix of like, liquid, very creamy soul food.

Yeah.

That when you have it in, you know, sometimes my family used to have it over Christmas or my grandma used to make it for, you know, like New Year's Eve. And that was something that it just almost won like a, like a landmark on, like how to get together and share this very rich type of food. But at the same time, it's very comforting. So there's a lot of that comfort type of food, at least, you know, in Bogota because of the weather, too. But it's amazing. I still miss it.

Oh, yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah. No. Oh, no. I was going to add. I was going to add to the, to the soup and the stews. I feel like there's so many different ones. You have a kiaco, you have mondongo, you have a whole bunch different sancocho. Well, sancocho, I don't think sancocho is from Bogota, Right.

No, but it's very popular, too. I mean, you can get everywhere, right.

So it's just like different types of stews. And of course, given the weather, you know, you're always, you know, you want that warmth. But that's usually like in, you know, around, like Ricardo mentioned, you know, during the holidays, you know how here in the States we do Thanksgiving and we have a turkey, right over there is the soup and you have this big pot because the whole family's coming. Right. So it's a big pot with a big spoon and everyone's just having this awesome stew. Yeah, that's what I remember.

Amazing. And I'm sure you can't beat grandmothers.

Oh, no, of course. My grandma used to get different types of herbs and capers and then mix chicken, but also oxtail for flavor. And that mix was actually very powerful. But one thing you made me remember now that we're talking about holidays is also the desserts. So, like the same stewie, kind of like syrupy type of dessert, fruit based. So like different types of fruits made into syrups, into jams, that kind of stuff. That's something that I grew up with when, you know, you know, Latin America in general, but Colombia is also very traditionally Catholic. So my grandma used to make with my aunts and my mom seven different types of desserts in Good Friday. And, you know, we wouldn't be. My parents didn't. Didn't let us, like, listening to any kind of, like, fun music. Or salsa or anything like that, because it was a date. Like, you know, like, be respectful. But we could eat all the sugar that we wanted. So it was really great.

That's hilarious. That's awesome.

So occasionally our viewers will take advantage of recommendations. You know, rather than go to Yelp, they want to hear from the experts. I just wanted to. If you had any specific restaurants that you'd recommend, anyone when they go to Bogota, Anyone that you wanted to give a shout out or recommendation to?

I have one.

Okay, go for it.

It's a restaurant called Andres Carne de Rez. But it's so much more than just a restaurant. It's like an experience. From the moment you drive up to the restaurant, things are different. You're gonna see a cow outside. I mean, it's very, very, very interesting. And once you go inside, you know the. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's an experience from, you know, from the moment you walk in to the food, there's music. So. So, yeah, I would totally recommend. I think there is one in Bogota and then there's one in the outskirts. A town called the Outskirts.

Yeah. And that's, that's the one that I think Jonathan is talking about is definitely, you know, taking the hike and going to. Outside the city to basically have an afternoon. Last time I went to my. With my kids was spent from like 4pm until like 10 or something like that because there were so many things to do and at the same time just kind of like munch. Have different things and you know, it's barbecue oriented. So it's.

Now we've, we've talked a lot about Bogota. Anything we should add maybe about some of the other cities that you, you brought up. Cali. Medellin.

Yeah, Medellin. What I hear from friends, like American friends who have been there is that the, the infrastructure and the kind of like the, the, the companionship that different companies give to people who have never been in Colombia made it very, very special. So like the same. And also weather wise, the same way that Bogota is very fall, like, Medellin is very spring. Like, and so you see, you see these wonderful, beautiful landscapes. Like, you know, Jonathan was saying from Encanto, because they got those landscapes from areas around there.

Yeah.

So definitely recommend it for people to visit Bogota, Medellin, and then I have to give a shout out to Cali, which is the third biggest city in Colombia. But going there in between Christmas and New Year's, they have the Feria de Cali, which is a one Party that lasts, like, seven days is definitely an experience that, you know, if you go safely with locals, you will not forget, and it will be amazing. So, yeah, yeah.

And one thing we. We. We try to be authentic on the show, and sometimes reputations, you know, come across, and Colombia, you know, has. Has a reputation that. That I think is quite dated. But if you don't know, you don't know. Can you maybe talk about what are some of the common misconceptions that people have about Colombia and how they might be wrong about it today?

I mean, I can just briefly mention, since we were talking about different cities, I think Medellin is one of the main cities that has gone sort of like a transformational renewal, if you may say that, from the urban projects that have started to public transportation. I think Medellin has an amazing cable system that goes from the Valley all the way to the comunas. So it's beautiful. If you're ever in Medellin, you have to experience that metro cable system. But I think given the history, of course, in the 80s, 90s, with drug trade, with the cartels and all that, of course, that is part of our history, and I think some of us are fortunate enough to have never dealt with that. But of course, there's a lot of history there. Now, of course, as you know, Hollywood and the Netflixes and all of these streamers, they will create content around it because it sells. Right. People want to watch, and it is interesting. Right. But unfortunately, it also, as the country is trying to show a new face and attract more tourism, you have these shows reminding people of the past, which is okay. But at the same time, that could be a mixed conception. The Colombia of now is not the Columbia of the 90s. So it has evolved, it has changed. My wife, for example, she's not Colombian. She had never been to Colombia, and we went to Medellin for a wedding. By the way, a lot of people are doing weddings in Medellin because of the weather and how beautiful it is. And we were so pleased to see so many expats, so many people from different countries, and, you know, the ability to be out with my phone and not worry about, you know, will somebody come and try to steal it. Right. So it's definitely evolved, and it has changed for the better, which I'm happy for. But, yeah, there's definitely, of course, that history that you cannot ignore.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the only thing that I would add to everything that Jonathan Heather has said, which is really great, is that Colombia has a small infrastructure, but It's a significant infrastructure on things like technology, for example. So Medellin, to Jonathan's point about transformation, went from being a city that was very traditional and kind of like reading about all these things that we see on the Netflixes and all these streamers, into a city that went to close to 100% literacy and also been a tech hub in the northern South America. So, you know, the investment in technology has been growing steadily over time, and it's really significant. And also I'm proud that, you know, the talent that Colombia has in general has been applied also with local people, not only the people that, you know, that we have the chance to get out of the country.

Yeah, I can certainly validate that, the demand, you know, once people have been exposed to talent in Colombia, and I hear Medellin all the time for software development especially, they double down and triple down, like they love it. So it's fantastic. I'd love to switch gears for a second and hit on your careers. Maybe we'll start with you, Ricardo, first, and just talk a little more about your journey, moving to the States, getting into technology and your career in that respect.

Right. So just to give your viewers a little bit of context, both Jonathan and I are experienced designers, and I started, you know, just on the classic application of design, which in Colombia is a very small, very small industry, more related to agencies and that kind of stuff. So my. My early work had to do with two things. One was just regular graphic and web design, very commercial. And then a different application of creativity, doing research. And I always wanted to mix those two. And before that, when I was really young, I went to engineering school. So that part of research and design and creation and the part of technology was something that I always wanted to merge. Fast forward so many years after doing freelance and different types of jobs in a market that was very limited, then I started getting more work here in the States and ended up here just working more or less in the same area for another five or seven years. And I had the chance to then join UX after going to Carnegie Mellon for human computer interaction. And not only was. That was a great experience in terms of like, you know, switching gears in my professional career and getting more specialized in tech, but also it answered that question that I always had of mixing these three things that I always wanted to mix. You know, on research, when I was in Colombia, I was part of a little startup, and I was really proud that we were able to create a couple of new methodologies for research. And we've always been Very customer centric. And that mentality, you know, I tried to bring it here and I've been trying to keep it over the years just to not make this story too long. Once I joined the, you know, technology and moved to Silicon Valley, now I'm in the east coast. But when I joined that and later in working in Europe for a couple years, my focus has been to creation of new products and new opportunities. But always with that mentality of how is that we can bring these things back to a market like a Colombia or a market like, you know, people in the States, like we have regular people in the States. And that's why I ended up working in places like Intuit thinking about a small business here in DocuSign thinking about the people who actually want to make agreements happen, which is what we are right now. But also in, in places like working for Telefonica in Madrid where we created an offering for a phone in, in partnership with, with Mozilla that was basically a smartphone that was free for some markets in South America. And that was such a great way of helping people because it was giving access to technology in a realistic and commercially viable way for things that were unthinkable before that offering or Google's under $100 phone. So some of these things made me very proud. And now that I have led teams and different projects and that kind of stuff, I'm trying to focus more on kind of like going back full circle to helping people with the ideas that I'm doing. And it's a journey.

Right.

And I'm very glad to do so. And of course my main source of pride is meeting wonderful, wonderful, talented people like Jonathan for example. And that's what moves me to continue going forward and working in all these different places that I've been working.

Yeah. And Ricardo, if I may ask, a few follow ups.

Sure.

First, maybe with education, Carnegie Mellon top school for design in ux. And maybe if you could talk about maybe some of the similarities and differences between with your bachelor's degree in Columbia and then going to cmu.

Yeah, I think that the similarities is how people were so passionate, how the work was very applied. That's one of the reasons why I really wanted to go to Carnegie. Mel. And I didn't want to go into some deep, more strategic type of approach to things. I wanted to make it more hands on. And Carnegie Mellon offered that it was very practical, it was very applied. So I think that is a similarity that I saw when I was in my bachelor's degree. It was very Project oriented. But the thing that was very different was the outlook and kind of the pragmatic sense of the ambition that people have. So I think that in Colombia, because of the size of the market and of course things have changed so much since I went to my bachelor's degree, the expectations of what can be done are a little bit different. And one of the things that opened a lot of possibilities for me in terms of just my mindset and mental model was seeing the ambition, but the application, the translation to do things that other folks, my peers at Carnegie Mellon had. And that opened to me so many ideas and possibilities that got me later to working a startup as a co founder and all that stuff that I never imagined I could do when I started the program. So I'm very grateful for that. Yeah.

Excellent. And then tell us just a little more about what you're doing today with DocuSign.

Sure. So at DocuSign, we both are part of the user experience team, we call it product experience. And I am part of the senior leadership of the 150 something souls that we are taking care of this thing things and my team takes care of the work that for example, Jonathan is doing in mobile. And Jonathan, I'll let you describe your job better later because I want to be true to what it is, but taking work like that or work that people are doing in web and start connecting those dots so our customers can see an offering and an experience that is fluid, that is uninterrupted and that is very supportive. So connecting those dots is what my team does and what I do is to create the path for the team team to connect those things internally.

Yeah, wonderful. Thank you. And then Jonathan, if you could also share a little about your career journey. And I'm also quite interested in, because you moved to the States when you were 10, if some of that early upbringing has influenced your career or how you think about design.

Yes, yes. So like take you back to when I was 10 years old. I come from a family of.

My.

Dad is actually a musician, so he's an artist. So I remember him drawing. He had like sketchbooks and he's also a musician. So I was always drawn to the arts. I think it was something that came easily to me. I started playing drums from when I remember and drawing, just sketching and doing things like that. So the way that my upbringing in Colombia influenced me was the fact that in school we used to, you know, we had like art classes and crafts. I remember I was part of the salsa band. You're not gonna Believe this. But I was part of a salsa band when I was in Colombia. And we performed. We performed in front of the school. I remember playing the timbales, which is the. You know, so, yeah, it's insane. And the cowbell, you know, little things like that. But yeah, that's like dear to my heart because that's what I grew up, up. And I was always drawn to the art. So I think when I came to the States, I did a little bit of middle school, high school. In high school, I joined the. I think it was Photoshop class or something. So I started from early on in high school already sort of diving into doodling around and messing around with this program software. Back in the day, of course, computers were a lot more limited, so I would always try to sneak in, into these labs and try to. I remember the Macintosh. I thought it was so awesome. So anyway, once it came down to deciding what to go to school for, I remember I actually wanted to go to school for music. Believe it or not, I wanted to get a performance major. But life takes you in different directions. And I actually was not able to. Like, I didn't pause the audition for a specific school. And that was sort of like my turning point. And I said maybe I should focus on my second passion, which is more like design. You know, at that time I didn't know that you could get, you know, be a designer and get paid for it. But, you know, I definitely enjoyed storytelling and, you know, back in the day, of course, with the web building MySpace, you know, pages for my friends and copying and pasting the code without really knowing what the heck it was doing. But that was sort of like my outlet in terms of creativity. So, long story short, I started with a degree of graphic design with a minor in photography, and then I jumped into advertising and that was my major. So I got a BA in advertising and I joined an adage. Well, I actually started while I was in school. I started in a print shop.

Shop.

So I was, you know, designing flyers, business cards. But I think that was very important in my. In my early career because I got a chance to see the end to end process of something as simple as a business card, right? Like, okay, you design it great. Now you have to print it, now you have to cut it. Now you have to make sure that the colors match the design, you know, so it was like, you know, the printing process that was interesting. I also created wraps. I remember wraps for cars. That was interesting. But anyway, I definitely learned a lot because there was a group of more Experienced designers. So even before I graduated, I was already making a living as a designer. So that was fun. And then fast forward, I joined a small startup, an ad agency. I was the first designer they hired. So I got a chance to choose my own title. So, of course, I called myself art director because I was director myself. But I got a chance to really grow in that role as well. I actually made a lot of mistakes, but, you know, you learn. They're not mistakes. They're more like learnings. And one of the clients for this small ad agency here in Florida was Shazam, the music app. So you all know Shazam. Music recognition. So I work closely with the Shazam team. They had an office in New York. And one time at a happy hour in New York, you know, talking to my counterpart in Shazam, and she mentioned, have you ever thought of moving to California for a job? And I said, honestly, no. My first thought was always New York, because New York is the Mecca of advertising. But long story short, I applied to the role. I got the job. So that was how I broke into tech. And in that role within Shazam, I became a product designer. And from there, I joined the startup. And then from that startup, I joined DocuSign, which is where I'm right now. And I'm currently leading and managing the mobile team. So we have two apps that are native, the Android and iOS app. And, yeah, I'm currently leading the design for that team. That's where I'm at right now. I work remotely. Right.

Yeah. Well, As a longtime DocuSign customer, I can say that the products are very, very well designed. So you guys are doing a great job, job.

Thank you.

We're trying to make it much better, I think. Yeah.

And the mobile especially. You know, it's funny how whenever you need something signed, like, don't worry, just sign it on your phone. It's very easy, it's very convenient, very intuitive.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, let's move to some fun questions here. So I know that English, you guys are obviously fully fluent, but it wasn't your first language. And I'm curious if there's an English phrase that maybe you've picked up that's become, like, a favorite phrase for you.

Oh, man. All right, I have a think about that one. Go for it. Yeah.

More than phrases, I think. It's just words that it seems like I use a lot, but apparently is one of them. Apparently. But I didn't know until my wife told me, hey, you say apparently a lot. And I'm like, huh, thanks for that now I'm more aware and I don't use it as much, but I probably said it once throughout. Throughout this conversation, I'm sure.

Yeah, Ricardo, Anything stick out?

I think I go by periods, you know, like over time. The one that I have right now is there is no them, there's only us. And I heard that in a documentary. And then it has applied to so many things that I just use it a lot. So my teams roll their eyes when I tell them that. But I do believe it. I think that at the end of it, they were trying to achieve something. There's no them, there's only us.

I love it.

That's awesome.

How about when you have a taste for home cooking, where do you go in each of your cities? Where do you go when you have a taste for home cooking?

I'm in a very interesting place called Miami. And it is a very interesting place because it is very, very heavily influenced by Latin America. So I think here in Miami, I can go pretty much anywhere and get a Colombian restaurant somewhere. So here in South Florida now, if you go outside of South Florida, it's a different story. Thank you. But yeah, here's South Florida. Of course, there's a lot of choices. But my parents also live here in Miami. So if I want something that really home cooking and something that really reminds of my childhood, I'll reach out to my mom, my dad, and I'll be like, hey, hey, I'm craving this. And they'll make it for me.

Nice.

Which is awesome.

Catch you. You have the whole. The whole full monty. So Pittsburgh has a couple of places that are Colombian. I haven't tried them yet, except for maybe like a food truck or something like that. And they're good. Are they like the best food that I've ever had? No, the best Colombian food I've ever had was in Queens in New York.

Queens, Queens, New York.

It was really amazing. And it had something about home that I couldn't define. And it was just a family place. Right. But what that creates here in Pittsburgh is that Pittsburgh has a really good food scene. So you find here things that are not exactly Colombian, but, you know, Peruvian, for example. There are multiple places that are really good. So I take the family and my kids there and, you know, definitely, definitely reminds me of that and these, you know, high up mountains type of food. And it's just amazing.

My wife and I, we went for anniversary to this place called El Cielo, which is this Colombian place. But it's high end Colombian, which was interesting. It's a different take in Colombian, and It's like a 17 course meal, but they take you through a journey of all these different places, all these different plates, all these different textures. But one that you would enjoy, Ricardo, which I thought was amazing. So perro caliente. It's also something that we eat a lot in Colombia growing up. And they made this perro caliente, but it was this tiny thing, but instead of like a sausage, it was a sausage made out of lobster and. Yeah, yeah. And the bread itself. Yeah, it was just like this. But once you tasted it, it tasted just like perro caliente, you know, so he brought you back. So that whole experience was amazing. If you ever get a chance to go to El Cielo, I forget the name of the chat stuff, but they also have one in managing and.

Amazing, Amazing. I'm writing this down. I will definitely check that out. I'll definitely check that out. I love this topic. And Ricardo, it's fun talking to you about this too, because now I know the best St. Louis ribs are in Bogota and the best Colombian food is in Queens.

It's amazing.

And then the best Spanish would have had that ever is here in Pittsburgh, too, and it's called Mosiah. So, you know, I love it.

The world's becoming global.

I love it. That's right.

That's right.

I love it. And then two. Two last questions here. The first is more of a. When you travel back home, if you can think of maybe, like, if you had $50 or less to spend and it wasn't on food, just on something other than food, a good purchase, you can think of something. Something that comes to mind there.

All right, I have that one for you. There are many good places to buy stuff because Colombia has had a tradition of, like, good leather craft, you know, for shoes and that kind of stuff, but also, like, you know, just. Just different types of, you know, clothing. But I really like this place. Bellis and Belles has a really good offering of, like, you know, very colorful purses for women and wallets for men and then shoes and that kind of stuff. They had a line of encanto, which was a very artistic line, you know, of purses. It was beautiful. So that's my favorite place to go and get a wallet or get some kind of, like, accessory that I need. And I try to go there every time I go home.

Great. How about you, Jonathan?

Yeah, yeah, Velez is great. First thing that came to mind was, like, a hammock. There's these beautiful hammocks that are Handmade.

Oh, that's cool.

So we ended up actually getting one on our trip to Cali, and we have it in our back in our backyard.

Oh, nice.

But it's made out of. It's, like, threaded. It's beautiful, colorful. It reminds me of Colombia every time I see it. So that's why we bought it. And that's what came to mind.

Yeah, that's cool.

I like the question.

Good answers. Good answers. Last question. For business leaders in the States that are thinking about Columbia, they're thinking about talent there, they're thinking about opening up offices there. Any advice that you'd have for them so they can be successful operating in Colombia?

The. I think that. And you mentioned this before, the amount of talent there is. There is really high. And I think that you don't have to dig too deep with a couple of good contacts to find people who are amazing. So what I would say is don't limit yourself to the one or two known places to look for talent. Looking in universities or small businesses that have had interesting projects. For example, in design, you can find very, very amazing people who are not too high on rates, and they have a lot of ambition to create great things, and I think that's worth exploring. Like in Bogota, for example.

Yeah, great advice. How about you, Jonathan?

I mean, I would say. I would say, you know, if you're an American business owner and you're looking for talent and you want to set up shop, I think Colombia is a great place for multiple reasons. I think the talent, talent pool is pretty awesome. You know, one fact that the dollar goes a long way, right? So you're talking about four times the dollar. So, you know, you're probably going to get a larger, you know, real estate if you need or if that's something that you're looking for. But I think it's just, you know, it comes down to the people. People are just. Colombians are known for. I don't know if it's just Colombians. I would say. I would argue it's just South Americans. But Colombians are known for hard work and having integrity. So the people who I've worked with, I still talk to my cousins who are professionals, and there's so much passion for what they do. They're, you know, they're. They're. They're also entrepreneurs. Right. You know, it's, It's. It's that mentality of. We call it, you know, just. Just like, you know, I don't know how to translate Barracos. Ricardo, help me out here. But just bad. Yeah. I don't want to say the word, but. Bad.

Bad, Right.

Yeah. That's the best way to.

Yeah, we won't censor. It's. It's wide open.

Yeah.

Don't worry.

Okay. Anyway, I think the people. The people. And of course, Ricardo also mentioned the infrastructure is definitely a lot better and you can totally, totally make a successful business there. Awesome.

That's great. Great, guys. This has been a blast. Such a fun show. I learned a lot about Bogota, Colombia. I'm sure our listeners will as well. Thank you so much for being here. This is really fun.

Thank you, Brian.

That was fun. This was a great.

Yeah.

Well, let me thank our sponsor one more time. That's Plug Technologies. Plugg Tech. Great way to find software developers all over Latin America, especially Colombia. And until next time, thanks for listening to the Nearshore Cafe. Take care.

Thanks for joining us at the Near Shore Cafe podcast. Tune. Tune in next week for a new episode featuring another special guest with exciting stories.