Movement Expert: Ideal Workouts From 0 to 70+

I'm playing the power laws of longevity. I know I don't want to get injured, but I also know I'm not training to become a professional athlete or whatever. How do you compress this to make it easy for people? What do they do?

Your body should move all of your joints through all of its ranges of motion. That is one of our laws. You want to move and play an unstructured environment. This is the thing that's going to happen in your life that shuts you down.

Dr. Andy Galpin, he's a professor of kinesiology at Cal State Fullerton, coach to.

Professional athletes, and one of the world's leading experts on the science and methods.

Of how to build strength, endurance and athletic performance.

We should have fundamental skills. Everyone should be able to throw something and catch and jump. Oh my goodness. Jumping like we've lost that entirely. Then we have to have resilience. I should be able to throw you right now into an exercise you've never done before and you don't have extreme injury or pain because of it. Too often we spend time trying to optimize for the task we're already doing. But are we fantastic and non precious? Can we handle the thing that we did not plan for? Are you zombie apocalypse ready?

One of the things I'm excited to talk to you about today is I've been doing a lot of things that I think is contrary to popular opinion.

You can say that again. A lot of things. All things.

Yeah. Why do you think I provoked such a strong reaction?

Well, you can answer this in a lot of ways it probably would take us far longer than we have. Anytime you challenge standard thinking, it's good to be met with pushback. Right? This is how actually all of us evolve. You need to be shown when you're wrong for you, you need to be showing other people where they're wrong for them. This is how everything gets better. Then there's a little bit of feel unfair. Sure, that's working, but I won't have access to it, which I don't think a legitimate claim for what you're trying to do. I think in general my position on your approach has been you're very clear with what you're trying to do. If someone doesn't like that, fine. I would never live your lifestyle. That I think. But if we were to change you out and say yes, Brian is going to go live in the Nepal mountains and he's going to do nothing but meditate. The rest of no one would care. So now you want to use this funny, weird lifestyle. We're like, well, it's so unrealistic. Sure, but so's the monk.

That's very true.

Right. No one wants to do that either, for the most part. The only line we have to be careful of is, are we giving people false information? Are we leading people into false hope? Like, things like that. That I think is a good pushback and I hope people continue to push you on that. Right. That is always the line. We need to make sure people are fairly informed, that they have a understanding of risk or not risk. But past that, like, if people want to do some really wild shit, I'm into it.

Cool.

Let's go.

Yeah, Cool.

All right.

So you're down to play.

The AC is currently on.

Oh, we turned off.

I. I would always vote comfort over 100. I don't care about comfort at all.

Where does that come from?

That is a core principle of mine. That is just an instill. Since I was a kid.

Since you were a kid?

Yeah.

When was the first time you encountered discomfort? You're kind of like, huh, kind of nice.

I don't remember. Not. Yeah, right. It's a. Everyone I grew up with my family, my mom, my dad, my grandparents. It was always generally, you're in charge of this thing in the sense of you're responsible. So like, you're tired. Do you want to do this thing or not? I don't care. I don't want to hear about your whining. Like that sort of thing just carried through with a high sense of responsibility or ownership. So if it is, hey, we're going to be uncomfortable.

Great.

Like, that has always worked for me because I don't know anything different. And so whether it was, you want to win more football games, great. The city kids aren't as tough as. Like, that's your advantage that you put in your head of saying like, well, they have more resources or more kids to pull from or whatever. We're going to out tough them. Right. We are substance over style. So all of that is like great on comfort. Fantastic. Make it the worst thing possible. And any great story, any great memory is almost always. Not always, but oftentimes is spelled with like. Well, why was that hunting trip so awesome? Well, because my tent broke day one. I got rained on for four straight days. Like it could have the same exact thing in the end.

But that's the irony is most of our most enjoyable memories come from discomfort. Yeah. It's the thing that we oftentimes want to avoid.

Yeah, yeah. 100% right. I mean, I have so many. I always come home from things like that and I'll tell my wife what happened and she's just like, that sounds miserable.

And I'm like, yeah, it was amazing.

Right in the moment you want nothing more than to get out.

Yeah.

As much as you know afterwards you're gonna appreciate.

It's almost like, yeah, the trip was not great. It went too well. Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny, like, like hunting very specifically is that if you were to go out and you were to have the best hunt of your life, morning one of day one, there's almost this like, oh, damn, that sucked. But if it was like five days of agony, nothing went right and the same. So yeah, I mean you could do different examples if you're not on hunting or whatever. But it's that same thing. It's the company you started. It's the whole damn. Just like nothing but failure.

It's gotta be such a significant personality indicator of like what is your relationship with discomfort. And then it has to cascade into all the other branches of likely character traits.

Yeah, it's, it's one of the, the things I enjoy in the most. Whether it is the project that you started scientifically and you just cannot get it to work and then it does now you're like, wow, like something really happened there. Or the one capture sense of achievement is always on the back end of failure.

Well, we have kinship and pain.

Yeah. I can't profess to take it to your level and many things. Think about it this way. Would you ever retire? You could have and you certainly chose not to, right?

Yeah. I mean the concept is, it's incomprehensible to me. I don't understand why one would want to retire.

There is a zero percent chance I would ever retire. I may not do some of the things I'm doing now, but I'm going to be doing something. And there's a hard line there too because you also have to be careful of balancing that with being present. We always play a game here of optimization versus adaptation. It's short term versus long term gratification. There's, there's lots of ways you could slice this same thing. But if you're too far focused on future and you're not present, we have all kinds of psychological disorders for those names. Right. You're not fun to be around. You're going to have all these other ones at the inverse if you're only paying attention to now, which is clear detriment down the ride. So playing that game of saying, I'm going to make a bunch of hard choices now to make my life arbitrarily more difficult is probably where we should hedge most of our stuff. But we can't always be in a place of, I'm not going to do anything right now to bring joy. People are not going to live very long, very happy, that life. So it's a balancing act. I think probably too many people are shoved a little bit more towards optimization right now. Do something that feels good in the moment and you could espouse a bunch of things that that could be. But at the same time, if we're too militant about it, many people are going to struggle with that because of lack of presence. Right. No appreciation and joy. Being a parent, that's an easiest example. Right. You want to be in the moment for your kids as much as possible and not thinking about your next meeting or the next project you want to do or just always being in your own head. Most parents would say, I would rather have some sense of presence around my kids.

Yeah, that's so true. Being split there. Yeah.

Hard. Hard to get no balance. But it's always a game you're going to play. Right. And you're going to fail it every day. And then tomorrow you get the chance to fail again.

Yeah. So I'm on the nerve of kids. Like, so I've got three kids, and lately I've been trying to teach them about exercise and strength training and cardio and also the risk of injury and why injury matters and then recovery. They all have wearables, and so they're now introduced to this idea that they sleep and then they wake up in the morning, they have a score that's looking at certain things. So I've been trying as a father to teach them basic things, you know, from when they're kids all the way through. Like, there's this fun story where my son Talmadge, went to the store and we bought him these socks and he was always very fast. And I said, talmadge, these are magic socks. When you put them on, they're going to make you run fast. Look, we're going to test it right now. So we're in the store.

Amazing.

You run from this point to that point and come back, I'm going to time you and then you're going to put the new socks on and you're going through the same thing. And I timed him and I actually, I was accurate. Like, I timed exactly. I didn't fudge it. And he ran faster with those Magic socks, of course. Right, of course. And I was really surprised. I believe he was 8 or 9 years old, but it was such an interesting thing. And then I, that with that experience, I then did this thing with their birthdays where the day before they turned on another birthday, I would say we're going to do a panel of measurements. We're going to see how far you can jump, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How high you can jump, how fast you can run around the house, how fast you can run up the stairs.

I see where this is going.

So I did like 10 things, right? And they're like, tomorrow morning when you wake up, we're going to the same 10 tests. And every year it became this thing where in their minds, they just level up to this new possibility. And it was such a fun family endeavor. And then as the kids got older, like, the oldest kid would be like, in on the joke. But then the youngest daughter, she was all in. She's like, I can't believe this. Like, I've just reached a new level of capability. So as I, as I do this, like you, you have become well versed in all things strength and cardio and recovery, and I would love to learn from you today. So if, if we were to talk to kids, like, if I were to say, you know, okay, let's just say they're 18, so, like, they're an adult, what do they do for strength training? Like, how would you compress what we know about that and what would we instruct them to do?

I'd recommend a couple of things. Number one, Avery Fagenbaum has been publishing in this research for probably 30 plus years. He's the person I give the most credit to. Certainly many scientists in this area have worked hard, but we have so much information, very specifically on exercising kids. Because of Avery and people like that, and the evidence is overwhelming. We can answer a couple of questions very quickly. Is strength training safe for kids? Absolutely. Is it beneficial for kids? Almost always the case. The NSCA has actually a free position statement where you can go, you can download it, and it has strength training, power training, speed training, recommendations by age category. It's open access, so you can go, how much should I be doing? What's too much? Is my kid overdoing it? All that information? I don't have all the numbers memorized per, you know, six to seven, seven to eight, you know, girls, boys, things like that. But that's all publicly available in that position statement. I'm sure you guys can link it to the show notes and such. In addition, when you look at other people who have launched this entire field called long term athletic development, ltad don't worry about athletic if you're not an athlete. It's just how do we get kids to be healthy as adults? Now, I know you kind of asked a little bit of a different question, kind of 18, but my answer is you got to walk into 18 in a good place. If you are starting this journey at 18, fine. We can make a ton of improvements if you start this journey at 70. We've done studies starting at 80. There is never a time when you no longer have plasticity and muscle cardiovascular tissue anything. Never. Right. It's not been documented.

So let's actually start with kids and work our way up through the various stages. So let's just say, I mean, at what age can you instruct, can begin helping your child do exercises and what kinds of things do they do?

Great. The age you can start is zero, not your zero, like the real zero. Because you don't want to think about this as when should I start deadlifting or when should I start plyometrics. What you want to think about is what does my kid have to do so that they are successful when they're 18, 28, 88, pain free and performing well. That starts with the very basic and I give you the three threes here. Number one it is run, jump, throw, okay? As a functioning human, if you are 60 years old and you can run, jump, throw, I don't really care about anything else. Pain free and reasonably effectively. Okay? Starting at zero. My kids are four and six, right? My kids will go in the weight room with me every day when I train. They're messing around doing different things. I'm not optimizing strength, I'm not optimizing speed or power. I'm doing basic human movements. Do they understand proprioception? Do they have motor control? Do they know where they're at in space if they go faster, heavier? I do not care, but I'm working towards lift, jump, throw.

Do you care if they do push ups? Do you care if they do curl ups? You care? They're just, if they just move weights around, do you worry about them doing a wrong movement and hurting themselves?

Nope. Because at the age of four to six they're going to auto regulate perfectly. If you watch my 4 year old pick up a kettlebell, he's going to lift it up. If it doesn't move, he's going to set it back down. They're very smart and they're not going to actually go past that point for the most part, where an 18 year old would definitely do. And they also don't have any historical context. They don't know, I used to lift this weight my friend lifted. They're just pick the thing up or don't pick the thing up.

So if you're at home and you're around the house and you're trying to encourage your, your children to run, jump, throw, do you set things up? Like, do you have them, do you set up a place for them to jump? Do you have them throw things around in a specific way like a baseball or all of it? You don't care. It's just like all of it. Yeah.

Yep. I want them structured so if we can get them to play structured sports, great. If not, fine. I want them unstructured. I want my kid. I don't have rules in my house against jumping on and off couches. We do not regulate it at all. My jump and climb on anything you want. There's some consequences we pay there. But I want my kids to think of the whole world as movement. I don't want it to be, oh, only when we put our cleats on and when we go to this field, we run. None of that. I want them to be thinking and feeling and moving because they're also watching. Natasha and I do the same thing. If I'm in the living room and my kids are doing something, I'm practicing a golf swing, I'm doing high knee, like I'm doing something. I'm moving in different areas and so I want them to mimic that. They need to learn movement by watching and by doing and doing in different environments. I don't want them to just have to have the right setup and situation and being what we'll call very precious. Right. They're six, they shouldn't be specialized in anything. My son is pretty far advanced physically. My daughter's not as far. Okay, fine, But I'm not going to put them on different programs because they're still developing. I want them to be in out of shoes as much as we possibly can. I want them to not be warmed up. I don't want any of those restrictions because we're trying to get there. Because they're four and six years old.

It'S a family culture of being active. It's you setting the example. Run, jump, throw, and most of the sports they would participate in. Soccer, baseball, baseball, basketball, hockey, like they all have roughly those characteristics. So if they're in sports, they're kind of Getting that. So let's say now we're in the early teens.

Perfect.

Now, how do you change your thinking?

I'll keep the answer brief to go from six to early teens. But it's the same thing the literature and most scientists are going to say when they start physically lifting weights or start doing structured exercise. Notice what we said before. It is sport and it is movement. It is unstructured on purpose. It is always coming down to their maturity level. The answer is you could start lifting weights at 5 years old. I have friends that have done that with their kids. No problem. It always comes down to their maturity level. Okay, do you have structured supervise capability? Do you know what you're doing and are they mature enough to follow attention? I told you, my son is farther ahead than my daughter is physically. But there's no chance I would have him lift weights. He cannot pay attention at all to anything. My daughter will 100% follow exactly what I'm saying. So she's mature enough to do it when. Whenever she expressed an interest in it. I do it as soon as she doesn't want to do it anymore. Of course, there's never the, we have to finish the rep or the great, I want to go draw. Sure. Get out of here. Do whatever you want to do. Right. When you go from six to teen, it's the same spectrum. Some of you might be at 6 when you could have that. Some of you might be at 13 when you can have that. So you just pay attention to your kids. You want them moving and you want them moving in a variety of ways. This is the very fundamental difference between physical exercise and a physical activity or a physical nature or however you want to phrase these things. Right. The one I will always use is physical practice. So we're going to have a physical practice whether you're in sports or not. I don't care. We're going to have a physical practice, though, whatever that happens to be. My daughter will run for hours in a field picking flowers and looking at animals. Stood on the soccer field all day. Would not. Did. No. No interest in soccer. Fine. That transition is going to be the same as we go from six to the teen. Now, once we get to teen, I think we need to actually be a little bit more bullish in forcing some sort of exercise. If there's a sport, cool. If not, it needs to be walk. It needs to be. There needs to be something there. I think it would be best for most people to start engaging in some sort of strength training and some sort of endurance training. In that early teen years, you just need to move well or well ish enough. Right. I don't need to peak your speed, we don't need to peak your strength even, even for athletes, high level athlete, freshman, all American football player. I still don't really care about getting as strong as possible. We still are focusing on moving better. Right. We're setting up foundation to move appropriately, body control and we're building tissue tolerance in the right joints, the right movement patterns. That's pre teen. That's all it really is. If you look at lastly here, the research on professional athletes, very few of them specialize in sports. So you almost in all cases should avoid sport specialization until you're probably at the end of high school or even past that.

For the first 18, 20 years of life, it's just about play. It's enjoying being active. It's doing the run, jump, throw in the various forms and having the foundation for movement.

Yep, it is, it is. Those three you start with. From there you want to progress the next three which are going to be.

Squat, press, pull, and that's in the 20s or that could be in the teens.

Yeah, that could be your eight year old.

Yeah.

Okay, great. Eight year old can jump and run and throw. Now let's get him squatting. Now let's get him pulling. Let's get him pressing. That could be a push up.

Yeah, could be a pull up. I see rdos.

Right?

What let's say what are the three things someone does to squat? Is there just one squat or are there multiple ways to squat?

Infinite ways to squat.

Right.

Think about what you just said. You didn't say, is there one way to do a barbell back squat squat? Of course I can squat any thousands of ways. Right. And I should be practicing, especially with that goal in mind, I should be practicing moving in a large variety of patterns. If you notice what we've been saying for this entire question, it's emphasizing variety of movement. I need to understand control and I need to have variety. Those things allow me the capacity and the resilience to do many things as well as reducing overall load on any given area.

Yeah. One of the things that's challenging in the health field generally is that there's so many opinions out there about everything and then it's hard to know what to do. So when a person is in an environment where they say I'm going to exercise and I'm going to do a squat like exercise, they could pick from a variety of techniques and so it's hard to know which one? A lot of people just want to just be told, like here, do these three things. Because otherwise sorting through the entirety of the option set is kind of hard. How do you think about that? How do you narrow the set of options? People have a particular program for squat.

Methods versus concepts. Okay. What are we trying to get done is the concept. The methods are infinite and leave them infinite. Okay, Pick one to start with. If we're not getting the results, move on to the next one. But do not worry, this is where perfect being the enemy of good, that kind of thing. The methods will drive you crazy because they are infinite. And I learned new squat variations still. Okay, great. Right. People are very creative with their exercises. That's not the rabbit hole. What you in your case have to pay attention. That example is what's the. Why am I squatting in the first place? Okay, great. I know it's a big exercise. People say it's important. That's the only information I know. Okay, let's stop right there. That's all you need to know. Great. Let's pick a variation then that allows you to load yourself and you're basically pain free. You're pain free in the immediate and the long term. I don't mean discomfort free. Exercise is uncomfortable, but my back isn't getting tight afterwards and so on and so forth. Actual injury in the moment or six weeks, six months in there if it is for most people, it's a new variation. Right. So say you started with a barbell back squat, the most traditional one, and then you noticed some sort of pain discomfort. Great. Maybe we start a go to a goblet squat and maybe we managed to walk ourselves all the way out of that because you're still getting pain, discomfort and we're on a leg press machine. Fine. They're different variations. They are not the exact same thing. And we will nerd out later on all the micro variations within them. I love that part. But for your question, there it is. What are we trying to do? Was this a back exercise? Was this a leg exercise? Was I trying to get my heart rate up? And then make sure you're just choosing a variation that checks those boxes off. As long as you're pointing in the right direction, you just do not need to worry about the things even within the back squat. Am I doing a wide stance? Am I doing narrow stance? Sure. Great. Step number one, are you getting the results you're trying to get? And then are you staying pain free? For the most part, yeah. That, that's all the surface level has to worry about.

On this squat question, let's imagine someone's listening and they're like, okay, great. Tell me what to do.

Sure.

What do you say?

As a general exercise, back squat is fantastic. It is pretty complicated though, if you want to make it a little bit less complicated for the general mass, something like a front squat or even a goblet squat. Now the downside is you can't load it. Your legs will not get the same stress and stimuli because the load will be a tenth of the amount. So what you need to do in that case then is go backwards and add some sort of leg strengthening exercise to really actually strengthen your legs. But a goblet squat is a great place to start and it is still complicated, but it reduces the barrier. And if those are still too hard, then just get away from the squat entirely. That's maybe not the place to go. And go to the leg, press the leg extension, something like that.

And then for pull.

Yep.

What would someone do for pull?

So this is really easy. We have upper body and lower body. Right. So upper body, you can think of horizontal pull, pulling to your chest, opposite of a push up or a vertical pull. So a pull up, something down like that. Pick one thing if your jam is pull ups, fantastic. If you want to use a machine, great. I, I can survive in a lot of different ways there. In terms of the lower body one, things get more complicated. Now you can do something like a trap bar deadlift. A lot of people are big fans of the trap bar deadlift because it, it lowers the barrier of entry to the exercise. Opposed to like a barbell deadlift where you have to cross your knee. And there's some other things in the way that is fine. If you want to do a kettlebell. The implement doesn't matter as much at this level. It is the movement pattern. As long as you're hinging or pulling, we'll use those synonymously. That's basically the same thing. You're fine. And if your entry point is a kettlebell, awesome. Totally fine. Just hit the other marks we talked about. But that's a nice easy way. So if you pattern those sort of together, you did a goblet squat, you did some sort of RDL or a hinge or a deadlift. They're not the same, but close enough movement pattern. And you did something for the upper body. Call it a bent row. Those three exercises. You're in a good spot now.

And so how careful do people need to be for injury prevention or injury awareness in doing these things? If, if they look up on YouTube and they say, you know, show me a few variations of squat, they look at a few pull options and a few push options.

Yeah.

Is that okay? Like, do people need to be more granular or concerned about.

I'm going to talk out both side of my mouth answering this question. Okay. Because one, I want people to pay attention to quality. The overwhelming majority of people should pay more attention to movement quality than they are their quantity, their reps, their load. It is so much more important to move well. At the same time, I have learned recently actually, honestly, based on social media and YouTube comments, sometimes when I say things like that, it puts up a barrier.

Yes.

And so people think, oh my God, if I can't be perfect, I'm not going to do it. And I never realized that.

Yeah.

So I don't want you to also think that. So how perfect you have to be. Don't make red flags. If I look at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, you're going to get hurt right now, that to me is not worth it. But if it is a, like, we could probably dial that in a little bit. If it is a situation where you're not using the right muscle, I don't care as much if it is. You're probably gonna get hurt really bad. Then maybe we should stop right there. All you have to really do that is keep your spine in reasonable attention. At the same time, I. The spine doesn't. You don't need to be precious. Spine doesn't need to be perfectly straight and narrow and locked in at all times either. It's not what it's meant for. But if you're going to put a big load and rotate and pull and you do that a bunch of times, like let's be conscious of our spine. Outside of that, the rest of the joints are probably fine.

Andy. I've actually, I've built a similar intuitions as you with comments online. So doing a video, you realize that when you, when you say a given thing, some people understand what you're saying. Like generally be active. And then there's a tail end where people are like a whole tight.

Yeah.

What do you mean by this? And they'll want five additional additional layers of clarification. Yeah. In this case, I'm really wondering with health and wellness, it is so hard. Right. People are aware there's challenges to being injured in the gym also knowing what movements to make. They want to be correct, but then they obsess over reps and weights and then a Whole bunch of metrics. It would be great if it was just easier. Like, you just showed up and just played and you didn't even have to think about it. But it oftentimes. I find that when you. When it comes to strength building and cardio, that the methods, as you said, basically ruin it for a lot of people because they get so hung up on the details that they just don't know what to do anymore. And then they become paralyzed.

Yeah.

And so that's what I really. What I wanted to speak about today is like, how to actually make this simple where people are like, you know what? Like, I'm playing the power laws of longevity. I know I don't want to get injured, but I also know I'm not training to become, you know, a professional athlete or whatever. Like, how do you compress this to make it easy for people? What do they do?

I actually like how you frame that. A little heuristic you can use with this technique juxtaposition we put up here is your body should move all of your joints through all of its ranges of motion. That is one of our laws is all of your joints through all of its ranges of motion. Your joints are different than mine. Your limb lengths are different than mine. I was sizing you up earlier. Like, how long is that femur? Okay, Great.

Yeah. What did you. What did you estimate?

You're in a good spot for your movements. You're okay. Your femur's long. It's a little. It's different. Mine's very short. You and I are going to have success in different exercises for sure. Right? Doesn't mean we both can't be successful. But you're going to be hedged more towards pulling stuff. I'm going to be hedged more towards pressing stuff. Okay, fine. But that said, you want to move and play an unstructured environment, right? This is a jiu jitsu class. This is a playing with your kids. It is swimming. It is whatever stuff. And I don't want you to be worried about any technique for that at all. Your spine doesn't need to be neutral. It should be flexed and rotated and twisted and turned when you're doing whatever. Where I want you to care about your spine in particular for technique is when we're putting a big load on and. Or taking it to high fatigue, if it can be that simple. So if you're going to the gym and you have a strength training practice, and you have a cardio practice and you have a movement practice, great for cardio and. And Your movement stuff. Don't worry about technique. Play joy, play the tennis game. Do not worry about your technique at all. It shouldn't be there for the 45 minutes twice a week that you're in the gym. Now, I want you to pay attention to that spinal position. I think that's how we get the best of both worlds. Right. Because we go too much in this direction and now we're loading it in bad positions probably. Also, if we never let ourselves be human, we're not going to move well, to be totally honest. So starting right out the gates exercises don't hurt people ever. It is the load, the intensity or the complexity. Now those three things can lead and stack on each other, but that's the issue. So move as much as you want and be mindful of progression. That's as simple as I can make this. What do I mean, if you are starting your journey and you really don't have much of a physical practice, you kind of sit at work a day and maybe you walk the dog. Okay, great. Now you're going to go to the gym and we're going to add a 45 minute workout five days a week. You know where the story ends. If you really know what you're doing, we could be fine. But most people are going to run into problems pretty quickly. The progression was not a progression. It was a rocket launch. You just, you went to the moon, you went from zero to following the entire blueprint protocol and you're going to break right, lose motivation, all those things. So you need to think about a more realistic progression strategy into it. If you can do that, you're gonna be just fine. So staying uninjured, staying still motivated and now staying adherent, that's really the place we have to get to.

Yeah.

If we're aimed at the wrong targets, it's not even the big deal. Like, I don't even care about that. We will get to execution later. We have to get to habits and basic tissue tolerance first.

Okay, cool. So if, if I review where we've been for my kids, I'm trying to create a family culture of being active.

Yep.

And teaching them the basics of run, jump, throw. And then as they get older, you can get into some more structured things of squat, push, pull, where you start doing, yeah. More structured exercises. But in doing that, you don't need to overstress about which ones you just want to pay attention to not being overburdened with risk of injury or too intensified. But otherwise, like you're just trying to create a habit of being active.

That was a phenomenal summary. I would give you 10 out of 10.

Oh great. Thanks.

If you were in class. Great, well done. On top of all that, think about what we're trying to do. You want a human to move? Yeah, we want our kids to move in a variety of ways so that the rest of their life they can still move in a variety of ways. Learning how to move as a 40 year old is gonna be a thing.

You know, So I realized that I just went through that. So I was active as a kid. That so like check. But then in my 20s and 30s I became, I, I basically was active but on a treadmill like activity. Like you go there, you try to eat.

Oh my God, I love this. So sorry. Yeah, I know where this is going.

But I got fat because I was depressed and I was in a really bad spot and so I didn't ever really learn how to exercise, like how to stretch, how to do all these basic things. It was just in the past three years. So now every day I spend an hour in the gym basically moving every muscle of my body and it is just exquisite joy. I love it when I don't get to do it. I feel so sad. My body just feels a little tighter, not as loose, but every day I feel so limber and light and free and so I wish I could have been doing this my entire life because my body has never felt better.

I'm glad you brought that up because this is the perfect example. We talked about 0 to 18. Almost all kids are going to be involved in some sort of sport activity or they're going to play with their kids, they're going to run outside, they're going to do something, they're moving.

Yeah.

They're going to sit in weird spots. Have you ever watched an 8 year old girl sit? They don't sit like me or you. They're going to watch TV in the weird ways. They're going to be in pigeon stretch watching TV normally. Like they're going to be doing couch stretch without even trying. They're all over the place, right? Like wow, that's interesting. When we get to high school, past that into college, everything changes. Watch the dramatic change in physical activity from 18 to non 18 if people continue to exercise. Sports are almost always gone. Very few people play that all play is gone. You don't hang out with your friends outside. All this stuff is gone, gone, gone, gone, gone. Some of those people are going to choose to exercise and their exercise is going to be on a treadmill or on weights. Awesome. We love that. But look what happened. All variety of movement went to here. What happened to all the range of motions in all your tissue? They only are subject to what you're doing. If you happen to be doing a well rounded training program, great. But probably not. You're probably on a treadmill or a bike. One movement pattern, no rotation, all these things, no connection between right toe and left shoulder. Like all this is gone. And if you're lifting weights, you're probably doing some basic stuff in a couple of movement patterns. That right there summarized everything. Worst case, they don't. And now all physical activity has gone completely to zero. So why do you feel so much better when you're moving? Because you're finally moving like you were a kid. You're using all your joints in the way that they're supposed to be moved.

Yeah, that's true. Okay, so now we're, we're, if we're following the timeline, we are now in the teens where we're structuring squat, push, pull. And now we're at this danger zone where we're transitioning. Post 18.

Yes.

And we're going to become increasingly narrow in the things we do. And our body's going to become inherently limited by now what we can do. So we're going to fill the intensification. So what do you do in your 20s?

Okay. Think about the problem. We think that things we lost and build them back in. Okay, great. You're not going to have the time to run around all day like with your kids. So how can you put that back in? This is Kelly Starrett all day. This is a standing desk. This is. We were joking before we started filming. I'm never going to sit in a conference room for two hours. Like zero chance it's going to happen on a zoom thing. I'm going to move, I'm going to be stretching. Not intentionally. I'm just going to be jumping up and down. I'll be moving around. If you can restructure some amount of physical activity back into your life, if this means you're going to take the stairs, you're going to walk, I don't care. But you got to get that back into your life one way or the other. If you can handle that. Now we've at least opened things up. Now we have to put back in our higher heart rate stuff. We have to put in some standard endurance training. We got to put in some strength training. Fine, that can be re engineered. But let's start with the foundation that we truly Lost the most of which is movement.

Yeah. So if you lift weights and you do treadmill like workouts, it's. It's good, it's better than nothing, but it's also limiting. Then there's options like yoga, Pilates. You have a much broader range of movements.

Yes. That is the methods and concepts, right?

Yes.

So what was the method? Open up, move, variety, play, or. That was a concept. Right. What are the methods? Sure. Yoga, swim, jiu jitsu, paddleboard.

Don't care about any of it is the advice. Basically, constantly seek to be active in a variety of ways. So if you're doing treadmill and weight work, fine. But also couple up with that thing. Other things like play sports outside of that of a certain variety. Is that the idea of getting your body enough variety to keep limber?

It's a variety in terms of movement patterns. Right. It is not just, if you think about, and we'll get into this later, but when I looked at your training program, the one that was available, lots of great stuff in there, lots of limitations. We'll go over all them if we have time. But some of the major limitations where you do very little rotation. Right. So a lot of people, there's three main movement plans. Sagittal, frontal and rotational. Right. We don't think about that. Up and down, forward, backwards, and then rotating side to side. Most people get stuck forward, front, back. I run, I cycle, I swim, I squat up and down, I bench press. And they're doing this. Right. And there's almost no translation. Transitional rotational stuff. So we need to make sure that my right elbow can touch my left toe. Right. I need to make sure that my knee can go up and touch. My left knee can touch my left ear. Not directly, but you see what I'm saying here? That's why people feel tight, because you're like, yeah, you're lifting and all that, but you're moving in the very same movement patterns. In addition, people are almost always moving what we call bilaterally. Left foot, right foot, even, balanced right shoulder, right shoulder, even, balanced head up and down. Perfect. There are connective tissue slings that run throughout your body, and they're not on the same plane. Right. I kind of mentioned earlier, but as an easy example, your left shoulder, the backside of it to the back side of your right glute are connected. So if those things are never crunching and rotating and moving together at the same time, that sling just gets tighter and tighter and sort of tighter. It also loses its elasticity. So things hurt more. Now that puts Tension somewhere in the neck, back, blah, blah, blah. So making sure we are moving and re engineered in those different movement patterns. Unilateral support, one leg at a time, one arm at a time, one elbow at a time, bilateral support as well as varied movement rotation patterns. So when I say variety, that's specifically what I mean is variety of movement patterns. Different angles, different joint contraction profiles, holding, flexing, relaxing, extending. That's the variety that I'm really talking about. And if we can get stuff on top of that, it is now vestibular. So can I do that thing when my eyes are focused on something at a different length? Right. Can I have neural. This is proprioception. Right. Do I know where I'm at in space? That's our last piece. We have to re engineer things back into. And there's a variety of ways we can do that. But wanted to be clear, when I say variety, that's the stuff I'm referring to.

Yeah. So for those listening after this, Andy and I are going to work out together and I've asked him to help level up my workout. So he's. Yeah, he's made a review of what I'm doing. So we're gonna go in the gym together. He's going to both analyze my movements and the actual workout. So we're going to try to uplevel it. Then we'll share it with all of you so you can incorporate it into your daily routine.

Uh, wanted to throw one thing on top of that. Cause I know that was pretty complicated. It doesn't also have to be. I threw a whole bunch of stuff out there and that may have just overwhelmed some people. It can be as simple as, let's start off with the win. Let's take your strength training, let's take your cardio and let's add Pilates.

Yes.

Sign up and go. Okay. Tons of limitations. Again, stop right there.

There we go. Now we're talking.

It's a win, right? Add in the yoga class, add in two days of I don't care. Right. Like we have got some movement back, we'll build after time. But that's all we have to do from one thing. Ideally this would be a daily routine thing I love people to do is in the morning, if you can, a five to seven minute window of play on the ground, on a mat roll. Don't hold a stratic stretch, but roll, spin, turn, flip your arm up backwards, put yourself in bad positions. You would be stunned when you walk up out of that and go, oh my God. Like everything's open now your nose opens up. That back pain goes away. Just roll and move. And I mean physically roll if you can, for five minutes in the morning. It will change people's lives.

I'm going to surprise my son Talmage tomorrow morning and be like, what's going on, dad? We have a wrestling match.

Yeah, there you go. I'm into it.

All right now we're going to jump to someone in their 30s, so someone in their 20s. They've had a dynamic decade. They've done a variety of exercises. They feel pretty limber. They're now in their 30s and 40s. They're beginning to feel the ravages of aging. A little bit here and there like this hurts. That hurts. They can't quite do the things. If they drink one night, they can't quite recover as fast like they. They feel the effects of aging to some degree. How do you think about these two decades?

We shouldn't from this point on change anything. Nothing between a 20 to 120 year old should be changing. Your starting place is different. If you're starting this journey at 60 versus 20, fine. We might be a little bit less aggressive. We'll progress more conservatively. But fundamentally, we've already laid that scaffolding. We know what we have to get done. So whether you're 26 or 66 or 96, the five minute routine is still a fantastic idea. You should still do your Pilates or your hike or whatever you're going to do. Nothing's changed in terms of our physiology. The same, by the way, would be my answer for male or female. How should a woman. There's no structure at this level that is different. There might be a few layers down where we start splitting some things up. But at the core, this is what it is. If we think about the physical side of longevity, there's biology and mental health and. Sure, just within my lane here. What do we think we have to get done? Okay, starting off. Number one, we have to have the physical attributes to age successfully. Now there's 10 of them that I go after. We could name them. You could probably guess many of them, of course, aerobic capacity and physical strength and. Great. Okay, we have to have those. Most people are too dialed in on that and it's important. It's a good start. But that's just number one, physical attributes. Number two, we have to be injury free because you will never get to point number one. If we're going through disc injuries and things like that, okay, great. But then we have more interesting things. We have. Are you zombie apocalypse ready? What do I mean by that? I think a 60 year old should be able to jog. Well, yeah, you should be able to jog. Not like 400 yards, not a marathon, but you should be able to jog. You should be able to stand up, paddleboard, you should be able to roll, you should be able to stretch and grab something that you don't have. This is the thing that's going to happen in your life that shuts you down. This is already taken care of in our basic play, but we should have fundamental skills. Everyone should be able to throw something and catch and jump. Oh my goodness. Jumping like we've lost that entirely. Jump and land and play. We have to have that. You're never going to find that in a meta analysis stacked up against VO2 max. Right? For scientific reasons we, I could talk about, but that, but that's a part we have to go after too, right? Then we have to have resilience. What's resilience mean? I should be able to throw you right now into an exercise you've never done before and you don't have extreme injury or pain because of it. You should be able to do that and then wake up tomorrow, not in blistering soreness. Now I could do that to anybody. But if I just did a little variation in your day. Let's say our car broke down, we had to walk five miles. You shouldn't wake up the next day with blisters on your feet. She had weird shoes. You get the point here, right? We should have some physical resilience on novel tasks. Touch. Too often we spend time trying to optimize for the task we're already doing. But are we fantastic and non precious? Can we handle the thing that we did not plan for? Can we handle, oh, by the way, we're going to have to do that 10 mile hike by the way, with no food. You're not going to perform your best, but can you actually physically do it or are you literally not going to make it? That's the resilience we need to have from the physical side of the perspective. So when we think about that as we're going from our 20 year old to 40 year old to 50 year old, and our eye does change a little bit towards longevity, if that's how you want to phrase it. That's the stuff I start folding back in and saying, okay, great. When you're 25, even if you're out of shape, I could probably make you go play basketball and you're not going to tear an Achilles. It's very unlikely. Your ACL is not going. You're going to be super sore in your calves and stuff. If you do that with a 60 year old, we might tear something. Okay, great. We've lost some resiliency. You called it. Some of the aging things we have a. They're like physiologically we can measure resilience.

Yeah.

Lots of different ways. But that's the stuff we need to be thinking about is what happens when you tripped on that thing and you put your foot out real fast. Did you then tear a calf muscle? Did you pull a hamstring? That's the resilience we need to build up for unexpected ones.

Yeah. And you're saying that is. That's built up by being active for all these years. That when you narrow your set of things when you're not active, that's what you create this deficiency. Yeah, but what I hear you saying two things. One is that culturally we've over indexed on methods.

Oh for sure.

When you, when we talk about all the particular, you're mostly at fault for.

That by the way. You're blamed for a lot of that.

So over indexing on methods, it basically narrows the aperture to a point where we miss out on just go out and play and be active. Yep. And being active means generally sports or like. Like you're saying rolling around or like just doing whatever. But it's generally that's the. It's a much more of a carefree approach to being physically fit.

Yeah. We want to be careful about. Unstructured also leads to lack of progress. So too much variety is hard to adapt to. If we did a random workout every single day, you would have a really hard time progressing. There's not enough stimuli of stressor onto a system for it to adapt. So if you to use your terms over index on variety and randomization, great. You've made yourself super resilient against novel challenges. You struggle to make any specific progress though. If you over index on specificity you make progress in those exact areas. But you've now opened up the window of lack of resilience. Okay, so what we need to do is have our eye probably for your this, this goal of saying mostly resilient but also not just making stuff up as we go. Humans are really bad about if we have that approach, we're not going to progressively overload. We're not going to really remember what we did and we're going to kind of choose the things we're probably good at and fall into the same patterns.

This is, I mean, this is the challenge. I would imagine someone listening to this conversation, they've heard us ping pong, right? Where you're talking about this general idea of being active. I come back and say, hey, we're over indexing on methods. And then you add the clarification. Also, you do need some structure to make sure you've got these basics in place. Also, free play is really important. So I would imagine the next thing someone's going to say is, so what do I do?

Yeah.

And so this is the thing that, I mean, even I struggled with this. You try to take the world's information and say, all right, I'm willing to spend an hour a day being active. What do I do?

Okay, great. So I'll give you an example now. Caveat, caveat, caveat, caveat. Okay, you guys fill in the blanks. It's just an example of what one could do. I personally, for all of the, the middle to later age people that I coach and myself, I do it by physical seasons. So every quarter of the year I change the approach. At the highest level, it is something like this. In the wintertime, I'm going to choose physical activity that's more indoors. Makes sense, right? My outdoor activities might be something more like I'm going to be out in the woods, in the snow, stuff like that. But my real training, hard training is going to be indoors because I can control it, I can overload, I can load, I can do all those things. In the summertime, it's going to be flipped. I'm going to intentionally choose the bulk of my workouts to be outside because the day is literally longer. My options are longer. Now I've got more hours to train in the sunlight and I want to be outside. That's the goal. So why fight that thing, right? And when you're like, can you imagine just like sitting on a treadmill inside, looking out at this, the amazing California weather and hating your life or wanting. Don't do that, go outside. Just build it appropriately. Right? So I will go quarter by quarter. Generally in the springtime, I will tend to go in more of a fat loss, hypercaloric or hypocaloric high energy expenditure. Who doesn't want to look lean for the summer? Great. What do I do in the winter? The opposite, right? Like I don't of course get fat, but that's when I'm probably going to add muscle mass. I'm going to be indoors more. I'm going to be cold probably and I'm going to be stuck enjoying the heck out of Thanksgiving, Christmas, like so I know I'm going to add weight anyways because I want to do those things. I've chosen that vice. Great. So why not take it to a purpose? If I'm going to be hyper caloric in my personal life, then why not put myself in a position where hyper caloric is needed for the training adaptation? So I'm just matching a little bit of discipline with my lifestyle that I've chosen to go for and go against. Right. So I will run them personally by quarters. If people's goals are different or lifestyles are, whatever's fine. But I'm not going to fight some basic principles. Like I know the physical activities I'm going to choose in the summer because of my kids, because of what I prefer. I'm going to lean into it. Right. So I'm going to spend the summer while I'm lean, also ramping my conditioning way up. Because the fall ends up being a lot of outdoor hiking for me. I'm in the mountains running around like most of the fall. I want to be prepared for that. I'm going to come back after that. My feet are going to be trashed because you're running on the mountains in boots all the times and things like that. I'm going to be cold and all that stuff. And now I'm going to go back to a different thing. But then I'm coming off of the winner. Not in great physical shape, muscle mass is up a little bit bigger. And then we spend the thing repairing some injuries, coming back down, spending more time on mobility, things like that, opening things back up, coming into a fat loss phase there. So that's one example of how I run it and how I'll typically do it.

So I'd imagine someone hears that and they're like okay, so what do I do? Yeah, great.

So it is as simple as this. You have your foundation of physical activity.

Yeah.

Can you move throughout the day? Figure that out. Does that mean you go for three 10 minute walks a day? Can you have a standing desk? What is the thing you can do to get your baseline physical activity in there? Check that box off 2. How are we getting our mobility flexibility range of motion? Can we get a five minute flow in the morning? Are we going to need a structured 45 minute? What are we doing to move our joints through a large range of motion? Check that off number three. We need to be doing something that requires non controlled environment. Some part of your physical practice has to be reactive Are you engaging with the stimuli? Are you making a decision? Right. That is our vestibular side. That is our balance. That is proprioception. That is unplanned movement. That could be surfing. That could be tennis. That could be playing Nintendo Wii, if that even exists anymore.

It does.

Okay, great. Something where I'm making a choice. I'm not on the treadmill. I'm not planned. My feet aren't perfectly together, My breath isn't locked down, and I'm not controlled. Uncontrolled movement. Okay. That is physical activity is going to be every day. Movement is going to be most days. If we can. What I'm talking about here can be as little as one day a week to three days a week. Great. If that's five days a week, fine. But no minimum.

Yeah.

Or less than one day a week.

So this is reducible. Like we actually.

Yeah, we can get there.

We could. Yeah. So as like maybe a product of this conversation is we could give people a weekly summary of like this amount of time. It's basically just summarizing activities of unstructured, of structured, of movement so that then they can fill in the blanks with the things they enjoy in those categories.

Yeah, it's the list of concepts that we're trying to hit. How many days per week. And then sample methods.

Yeah.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Some infinite ones. Right.

Because I know, like in sleep, like, I. I mean, I've been working very hard on sleep. I can compress that into about seven to dos. Like, if you want good sleep, do these seven things. Yep. It's very straightforward. And so it feels like exercise is.

Oh, yeah.

You think it's easily as compressible or.

Get to that level. Right now it's, It's. It's asymptote. Right. So to get to that level, probably maybe seven's gonna sound about right. And then to get to level two, it's a few at the tail end now, where every minute detail is gonna matter. But yeah, for the. The average person, I mean, I think we're at what, three or four sort of right now.

Some.

Some movement, some range of motion, some reactivity. We stack on something that adds a challenge to physical strength. Okay. Minimum two days a week per muscle group would be ideal for most people most of the time, by the way. This could be in the same session.

Yeah.

Could be the same day. Could be separate sessions. Could alternate them. Could be in the morning, evening. Those things don't necessarily matter at this level. Level two, three, four, maybe right now. No. All Right. Next one, something that challenges your ability to sustain long term effort. This is not high intensity intervals, this is long term effort. If you. Everyone's super excited about rucking. Great if that is classic cardio or fine if it is your activity class, your group class, whatever. Again, we can combine these things in the same node. Then we have another one which is you gotta get to a high heart rate, you gotta hit the heart rate, come back down, do it again. That could be done in the same session, could be done in different ones. Minimum one day a week, getting to a true heart rate max, but probably no more than three either. We oftentimes, not always, but many people run into problems if they are really up to max heart rate more than three times a week and they're not taking care of business and the rest of their downregulation of their life especially lots of problems there. So we don't want to over, over push that one. Yeah, that has put us in a good spot already. Right. So if you stack that up if you wanted to, you have a, let's be more realistic. Five days a week you're fairly active moving around. If this is when you're at the airport, you're instead of sitting there between layovers, you're walking all the little hacks you can do to be more physically moving. You try to do something with your joints every single day, even if it's as little as five minutes. And now let's say on Monday and Wednesday and Friday you're going to lift some weights for 30 minutes. Okay, got that up. Tuesdays you're just off entirely. And Thursday you're going to do one max interval. This could be 30 seconds on as hard as you can, 30 seconds off. There's no magic number to that, by the way. I'm just giving one example. You're going to do five or six rounds of that on an assault bike. And that whole workout takes you 20 minutes at absolute max. Right? Great. Now on the weekend you do a longer walk. Like we're pretty close, like we've missed the sport sort of thing or whatever. But maybe we fold that in one of the other days. Maybe that's the same day you lift. Maybe that's the same day. You also do it on your strength or your, your interval day, cause that was shorter anyways. And then you go play basketball in your backyard. Maybe you play basketball and you time it. Like there's lots of ways you can fold this into your, into your time domains with your restrictions of equipment and availability.

So it could Collapse this conversation and say, okay, as kids, run, jump, throw, family culture.

Yep.

Community culture. In your teens you're doing squat, push, pull where you have more structural things. In your twenties you start this new habit of basically thinking through like a seven day cycle where you have these core principles of cardio rest. And we can map this out for people. We can say like have these methods or have, have these, what do you call them?

Concepts.

Concepts in place and then here's a few examples of methods and then pick and choose which ones you like. But otherwise a person could approach live fitness through this very simple framework and not feel overwhelmed by the nearly infinitely long list of methods that otherwise going to create some paralysis. Is that accurate?

The only little tweak there is the first part. Run, jump, throw. Never goes away.

Yeah. Stays in there.

It always. Yeah, it's a through line. Right. If you can run, jump, throw, you'll age well.

Yeah. Because I've never heard anyone actually in all my reading of fitness, I've never heard anyone compress this into an easy to understand life formula.

Yeah.

Like oftentimes you'll hear, you know, VO2 max is a good predictor of longevity. Great. You know, or like single rep max or continuous push ups or grip strength. And so you're focusing on these given things but you're really missing this larger picture like what is activity, what is physical fitness? And so like this to me it resonates as a well structured form that spans decades. It's not going to change when you're 60 or 70 or 80. It's going to be the same as when you're 20s. You may move differently on those time periods but the same structures in place. I like this.

Yeah.

Is it the case Andy, that when you do things like throw, jump, run, squat, push, pull, are you spending down your joints? So like there's a part of it of course that you're strengthening your joints and you're creating resilience. Also are you spending it down? So how do you think through spend down versus build up?

Yeah, this is a hormetic stressor. Right. This is toxins. It's the devil is in the dosage. So anything that you bring into your body is going to create a physiological stressor. If your body comes back, responds bigger, faster, stronger, whatever, then we think that as positive. If it comes back as worse, then we think of that as negative. This is the exact same question, how do I figure that out? Where's that juxtaposition of am I making my shoulder worse or end up healthier? Number one, you have to move well. Ish is how I'll phrase it. You don't have to be perfect, but you have to move well. Ish too.

This is your technique comment of like don't over stress, but also be mindful that there is some.

Remember, the joints are supposed to go through their full range of motion. Your knee joint is flexion extension for the most part. Slightly bit translational rotation. Right. It is not going to do a ton of internal external rotation. And you're going to move internal external rotation from the hipper for the most part. Okay, great. The shoulder has a different range of motion. It needs to be put through its range of motion. So one of the challenges we want to look at in your gym and your workout is are you actually stressing it over all of this range of motions? Are you only stressing it on one? That's going to be a recipe for injury because you are going to overuse on one side of it. And now you've got the analogy we've used for decades now is you can imagine a car with four tires and the alignment is slightly off. Yeah, wear and tear, right. Great. So alignment is everything as a starting place. It's not the only thing. And you can get away with bad alignment for sure. When can you not get away with bad alignment? When the volume gets ratcheted up. So that's the second thing you're paying attention to. If you're at a low volume, then a little bit of asymmetry doesn't matter. A lot of asymmetry will not matter. As you ratchet up volume now the exposure starts to really become an issue. So what do you do? Move well and be judicious with your volume. 10% is the number we'll say don't go over about a 10% increase in volume per week. As a progression strategy, that's going to give your tissue some time. I've used this phrase several times now. Tissue tolerance. That's what I necessarily mean. Can I tolerate joint stimuli?

Does this basically mean if I'm picking up the game of tennis and my first day out, I'm going for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or 30 minutes and the next week out I'm going out for 35 minutes? Like then 40, 45. Is that how I think about it?

Sure. Just 10%. Right. So if you went for 20 minutes and you went three times this week, great. First of all, let's go three times, not five, because now we weren't ready for it day one. Now we're back. Let's give it some, you know, 15 minutes. Now 10% of that is another minute and a half. You're not going to go to 16 and a half minutes.

Exactly.

It's not realistic. Right. But think about it. The five actually I love is because the same thing happens in the weight room. I'll add five more pounds. I'll add five more minutes. Okay, great. Well, 15 went to 20.

You're saying it actually it's worth being particular.

It's going to compound.

Yeah.

Fast. Right. Because 15 is going to go to 20. 20.

Your 10 rule is actually precise. It's not an approximation.

It's still an approximation because again, you're. Who's going to, who's going to stop and start there?

You might.

Right. Most people are going to stop me. Like it's been 16 minutes. I'm sort of out of there.

Yeah.

But what you want to think is, okay, I went from 15 and then I went to 20 and then I went to 25. Now you're a month in and you've doubled. You're at 30. That happened fast. Maybe we should all at 30 for two months long time so we can run that average out pretty good. So if you're going to progress quickly like that, then when you get to even just below your threshold, maybe we should spend months and months there. Now we have an option. Do we want to fold on a fourth day? Okay, great. Do we want to bring in 10 more minutes? We can be fine, but we can't add a fourth day and ten more minutes. Yeah.

I like this. This is like a, again a power law as we're listing out our 10 things to do. Yeah. I would include this in the list of. As you build up capacity in any given thing, stage it.

Yeah.

And like it's important that you, if you're going to over index on methods, don't do that. Like just work on concepts. But in this case, you do want to be mindful of some degree of accuracy because like you're saying you've got a compounded problem if you're approximating. You could get yourself into trouble and then be at risk of injury.

There is a. I can't remember his name, but there was a famous historical figure, so I'll call him. Who held his right arm. I think it was his right arm up in protest of some event. Right.

I remember reading about this.

You see this picture, right. And decades later, his arm is basically fused vertically. Okay. Your body will adapt.

This was in India, right?

Yeah.

His fingernails had grown out to be.

Totally like, like his shoulder bones were turned upwards almost. Right. I don't know if he was born that way or if the story is real. It doesn't matter. Right. It's the point of saying your body is very plastic and it almost always is paying attention. Every little thing you're doing is going to matter. It will adjust if you give it time. What it won't adjust for, well, sorry, it will adjust, but it's going to send you an adjustment signal that says don't do that anymore. We call that pain. Whether there's a classic injury or almost like later isn't. But there is a pain signal that will start far before an actual tissue injury occurs. Especially chronic overuse. Right. That's what those things are. They are warnings that say, hey, we weren't used to this, we don't like this. If you can play right below that threshold. In fact, this is how a really high class physical therapist will adjust or will appro. Will go after pain. What we want to do is let's say your hip hurts every time you do running. Okay, great. We're not going to go take four weeks off running. That's generally a terrible strategy. We want to figure out is okay, what speed does it hurt and how many miles does it start hurting at? Great. And then I want you to go below that line and I want to do it and take a day off and do it again. Take a day off and do it again. And now next week, let's go 1% higher and what you're going to notice happen is that baseline of pain, that pain threshold starts to move up because you have desensitized pain. Desensitization is the principle here. It's very, very effective. It's not always going to work, but it is a really strong strategy. It is much preferred to then the old adage of just take two weeks off and come back and try again.

It's like propaganda to the nerves and.

Musc a hundred percent. We need to tell it this is okay, we're safe here. Build up tolerance and we move up and we move forward. It's not ignoring, it's not blocking a pain signal. It is saying we're safe here. We're gonna trust me, we're gonna progress properly, we're cool.

Yeah. Not propaganda. It's. It's a news, it's an announcement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go.

Exactly. Yeah. And now we need to say, hey, cool, we got the signal.

Yeah.

And we're gonna adjust accordingly. So we do wanna pay attention to progression. That is One of the things that's gonna allow us to have that hormetic stressor.

Yeah.

That more it makes it healthy for the joint rather than unhealthy.

Okay, let's jump to two other topics and then we'll go to the gym.

Yeah. Finally.

I didn't work out this morning, so my body is like, what's up?

Sounds a bunch like a pre. Excuse me?

No, no, no. A pre excuse would have been if I would have worked out. Ah. I'm saying I haven't.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I didn't work out.

Oh, you didn't?

Yeah, because I wanted to give it my best today. Like, if you had me doing hard things, I didn't want to be worn down.

Okay.

I'm just saying my body's.

You're resilient, you would have been fine.

My body's complaining.

I see.

Because it didn't get its normal movement this morning.

What percentage of the days in the last 500 days have you done your training before this time of the day?

Every single day.

That's right. So you probably are very thrown off right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. That's the thing is like when. When I do deviate from my protocol, I feel the effects so strongly. And then most people's response is, well, you know, like, you've shown you have no resilience. Now change. I make the argument there's different ways of being. Like, I'm not training to be dropped into a forest and fight a wild animal. Like, you could do that. Sure, like, like, you sure. Like, and. Or being dropped into the desert and saying, survive on your own for 30 years, you definitely can do that. I'm trying for a very particular thing, which it has its trade offs, like, I fully acknowledge it, but it's just like a. It's such a foreign concept because people take their frame of like, the resilience thing must be the solution for all things.

See, I don't get it. Because as a scientist, this is my whole life. You cannot design a study that answers two questions. That's not the point. Right, like you're trying to answer one.

Exactly.

And of all the complaints you get, of which, sure, many of them are reasonable, that's not the one.

Yeah.

Because you have been clear, at least from what I've seen and followed, of exactly what you're going after. And if you don't like that question, fine, follow along elsewhere. Right. Like I even told you, like, that's not the target I want to go after. Yes, but I don't want to sit in the Napoleon Mountains either in meditate. So fine, like you've been clear, you're going after it your way that it is what it is. That's the target you after. That's the question you're trying to answer. I actually personally like the resilience side more. I want to answer that question. But fine. Science can only answer one thing at a time.

It's a great way to frame it because oftentimes people will try to explain what we're doing at Blueprint to their family. And sure, it's like the family, they, they make all the same arguments, right. It's like, it's like he's so busy trying not to die, he's not living.

Right.

They like all these easy ones. And oftentimes it's challenging for people to know how to defend this because for them it's the first time these arguments come at them. And now it's like, maybe I shouldn't be supporting this thing with, I shouldn't have confidence in this. And so these kinds of conversations help people. That's a really great clarification. When you're doing science, you can ask one question, you can't ask two. And so then it just, it lessens the value of the endeavor. And so that's a really great clarification. And that's what people can then say is like, the reason why this thing exists is to do this given thing. And when you do this given thing, structurally, you can't do two things.

No, I mean, this is where we always laugh about when people make comments in public forums or other places about, oh, this study was terrible because blah, blah, I'm like, okay, yes, there is such a thing as a badly designed study. There's also studies that are asking a question that you weren't interested in. Yeah, that doesn't make it a bad study. Just, I'm sorry to answer your question, but that's not what we were trying to do over there. So judging the quality of the study, your methods, fine, like bring it all day. I said earlier, I hope people continue to challenge you. It's only going to make you better and all the things. Right. Let's figure out where you're failing and get better. Yeah, but challenging the point, that's an ethics question, right? This is an is or not. And you want to go after that mission, fine. I think the easiest way I have answered that question, if you care is always one way to think about it would be the question of what could happen if that's as Simple. It is. He just wants to know what could happen if. No, no. There's nothing else to it. Like, what could happen if I did all these things. I don't know. I don't know the answer. You don't know the answer. You've gotten a lot of answers thus far. That's as. That's as complicated as it has to be. Right. Someone was going to do it or would have, maybe. And you're going to answer questions that I don't know. You know, from your end of one there. But what could happen if.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good way of frame.

This is really complicated as it has to be.

That's a good way of saying it. Okay, let's jump now to the topic of injury.

Yep.

So two things on this, leading into this question. I have stopped doing certain things in life because of the risk of injury. So for example, I grew up snowboarding and skiing.

Yeah.

I no longer do those things. I used. I rode motorcycles with my son. I rode motorcycles as a kid. I love them. When my son was growing up, I thought, you know, I want you to have the experience. I did, too. And then in recent years, I've stopped because they're dangerous. And so I've chosen particular activities. Like, I still drive, though.

Yeah. Probably more dangerous than the other ones.

I agree. I agree. Like, okay, yeah, so I agree. Like, statistically, it's probably safer for me.

Snowboard than it is.

We actually, we need to look at the stats on that. But, like, I'm sure it is, but there's definitely like a. It's not a clean stats thought. Like, if you're basically saying I'm looking at the statistical nature of injury, it does not translate cleanly to life.

Right.

Life is messy. It's like, I still need to drive to places in my life. I can choose whether I'm going to ski or snowboard. And so I won. Is I've made that decision. Now a lot of people will say that means you've lost life. Like, if you can no longer do those things, then you've given up on life and now you've chosen this really bad, you know, track. So one is my first question is how do you think about my decision personally? And two is your injury. I recently sprained my ankle and I did it in, like, the most ironic way possible. So this is.

This is amazing.

Well, I mean, we know that irony hunts me. Right? Like, irony wants to kill me for the beauty of its manifestation.

Sure.

We know eventually irony will probably win because that's the universe. So in a very small example, we were at a music festival. I was with a group of people and the ground was uneven, there were holes. And so I said, hey, everybody, be careful.

You said that?

Yes.

Oh, beautiful. Love it.

Everyone be careful. You know, like you could sprain your ankle. And I, I was wearing my don't I hat. And so then we're at this. The set plays one of my favorite songs comes on. I'm with my son and it's like beautiful Saturday night. We're out and about together, we're having fun and I'm like, fuck it, let's go. So I break out into dance and my foot drops into a hole and I twist it. And so it's a high grade sprain and a fracture. And so I'm now 12 weeks ish since the incident and I'm fully recovered. And I got. My doctor said he's never seen anyone heal as fast as I did. I believe that we threw the kitchen sink at it. Like we did all therapies and so. But still, like it derailed my life as injuries do. And so I now have this acute awareness of injuries that I of course knew before, but now it just meant so much. So this is why I've made these meaningful life decisions. Like, I'm not going to do these things that have the potential of wrecking my life. So first, like general thoughts on injury.

What I love about this is a few weeks ago I was in Oregon with a guy named Cameron Haynes. And he could not be more opposite of you. He is everything on resilience. Right. I want to be able to wake up, do everything, no matter what I can possibly do. And he is optimized for nothing. Like for nothing in his possible life. When I got up there, he had a broken foot.

Why do I love it so much?

Here's the fun part. He was running, which he does every day, his ultramarathons, things like that. And I think he stepped in a hole and I showed up and his foot was this color of your pants.

Oh, man.

Right. And I looked at him and his, you know, his manager and his wife were like, can you please? Because he's stubborn like bull in the brain. You threw everything in the kitchen sink at it. He threw zero things. He did nothing. Didn't take a multivitamin, like, did nothing on it. Okay, great. That morning he ran 10 miles on, on the foot, right?

Wait, when it's broken after? He broke it the day after.

The day after. He ran 10 miles the day after that. So day two broken foot. It is purple. We ran up a mountain together. A mile and a half a thousand feet elevation carrying a 72 pound rock runs up the whole thing. We shoot bows and arrows. We like, we do the whole thing. He runs down the mountain like no derailment. He is so resilient against that. That weekend he had a charity event, ran the whole thing with the broken foot. Right. He wouldn't get an image until finally I got him. It's broken. Right. All these things. So you're sort of the opposite end of the spectrum. Which is like made me love. Because honestly, both of those bring me so much happiness. This is the beauty of life to me that I can love him as much as I love Cam. I can love all the stuff you're doing as much. And like we don't have to all have the same values here.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I want to know what all shit you did. I want to know exactly your protocol there. I also want to know Cam, like, how did you run 10 miles on that?

Yeah, I wanted to both of. Did you see the images when he did have images? Eventually.

Oh, yeah.

And what? Oh, no.

Broken as hell.

Yeah.

Yeah. And he didn't get. He's not getting surgery.

Yeah.

He's trying to like get through it and he did a whole bunch of protocol got images again. Guess what? Still broke because he did nothing but run on it.

Okay. So is I guess a few thoughts. Like one, is this a good idea?

No.

Okay.

There's nothing about that that's a good idea. There's nothing. I support. I support him as like a guy. Like you're such a.

So if he's awesome, is that approach going to enable him to heal?

No. And I was clear with him. You're gonna sacrifice most likely many more decades of running quality on that foot.

Yes.

But he's like, this is why I like the.

He just doesn't like. What's his thought process?

Thought process is he's getting close to September at the time and he knows he's gonna be in the mountains and if something like that happened the mountain and he needs to get out. He has to have that fortitude, that ability.

Right.

He's very much pushed to the now.

Yeah. Right. I see.

Rather than the long term, he's like, I'll figure that next 30 years out.

I see. So long term you think it's bad idea. It's gonna comp. Not going to heal correctly. It's going to create more complications and.

It'S probably going to leak up Chain.

Yeah.

Knee is going to hurt. Back's going to hurt.

Yes.

Oh, no.

Yeah. I.

When I was clear with him, and he understands all that.

I see.

But that's his sort of.

And that's what. That's what the people around him were saying is he's stubborn. So, like, Andy, can you please get him to talk some sense to him?

Totally.

But he just doesn't care. Like you're saying he has a different way of understanding the world and.

And he has a different thing if you. You gave him the choice. And I'm sorry, Camp for speaking for you, but I don't think he disagree with any. I'm saying he would choose. I'd rather figure these lessons out now. Even though he is. He's not young. He's in his 50s. And we'll figure out the down consequences later. But he is more interested in saying as much as you want to ask your question, what happens if. He wants to know a question of what happens if in a different way, like, what would happen if this happened? Could I survive? How much hurt could I deal with? He wants to know those. His book is Endure. That's what he finds as a central tenant in his life. And I love that, too. Again, I told him not to do it. We put him on our recovery protocol. Thankfully, he followed that.

Yeah.

And. But I'm like, I can't fix a broken bone unless you.

Yeah.

You go in there.

This actually reminds me my. My oldest son got into David Goggins for a while, and it was definitely this concept of pain is not a signal of warning. Pain is a signal. I think David says, like, you're 40% there. He has some kind of concept. And so my son was definitely. He. He leaned into that concept, and he definitely did things that imperiled his health.

I'm not against that entirely. I've never met David. I don't have anything. I think he's as cool as everybody else. Right. To me, it is looking at all these people, you and David and Cam, and going, okay, what lessons can I extract? And what.

Yeah.

Where do I want to aim at? Right. So you want to aim to being feeling great now while also not sacrificing down the road. Right.

David is clearly right now a different game.

100. That's fine. I don't have the same value system as David. I don't do that. I wouldn't coach people that. If you said, I'm a robot, should I do that? I would say, absolutely not. But that's up for him to decide. What goal he's trying to kick after. Great. I would generally recommend most people not to that. I don't think even as far as in Cam situational, my camp just like, come on man, you want to go run ultramarathons the rest of your life?

Yeah, because you're saying that basically you're saying that the value system that like Cam is saying, I'm in the present, I'm playing this, I want can I survive question game. And you're making the observation that look, you're going to play the game less shorter in a shorter time than you want. So like play your game Cam. Just do it in a way that is slightly adjusted so that you've got a longer horizon on gameplay.

Yeah, that's a great way to say it. Another way I would say express to him was, okay, fine, let's do that. But now that you got that question answered, I know you can run 10 miles on a broken foot. I just saw you do it. Can we go get a fix now?

Yeah, fix, yeah, like checkbox. Yeah, got it done. I think Goggins also has some like hero stories of course doing something on broken whatever. So maybe for certain people they want that checkbox where they've got that story that can be told about them.

Yeah, and I'm in for that too. Like I when people do insanely crazy. I coach athletes, many of them, I coach a lot of fighters. There's not a single way and there's not a cogent argument I can make that anything that they're ever going to do is good for their long term health. There's just not right. I've got a couple of fighters that'll be fighting in the sphere in a few weeks. It's only taking life away from them. At the same time, there's no way I could also say you shouldn't do this for so many other reasons. So it is just trying to step all the way back is first principle stuff and saying, okay, as long as you're conscious of the choice you're making. I'm certainly not here to judge or even tell you where those lines of values should be established. I want you to be aware of the choice you're making because I think most people aren't. Yeah, that is helpful. I feel like I feel okay stepping into that. But then saying if you choose to value this epic experience over potential long term risk. Your initial question, right. Boy, I can't answer that with science. I can't answer that with my experience. That's it. My values are different when you think about injury risk, you have to bucket them differently. You have acute injury risk and you have long term risk. I don't want to mountain bike or motocross. Whatever you're going to do. Because there's an acute injury risk. Okay, fine. That's not necessarily a long term overuse sort of risk. That's a little bit different. If you look at which sport has the highest injury rate, most people are going to be stunned with what I say here, but do you want to take a guess?

My first thought was basketball, but I'm probably given that it's pretty low, actually. Okay. Think water polo.

No way down. It's way more obvious than you would think. Or completely unintuitive.

Running.

Running, it's not.

Thank you. You had it.

Soccer's pretty high, but running is number one. Now, it depends on when you want to play absolute or relative games here in terms of injury rate. But why A ton of people do it. They're unprepared for it. And I jump way up.

Yeah.

In mileage. So if you want to reduce injury risk.

Oh, I see. They. They violate that 10.

They violate it. All right. They jump in, they don't do it well. They're not prepared for it. Boom. Foot, knee, back. And they run mileage on very little progression. So what I would say is, yeah, sure. Like, I don't want to. You may want to think, I don't. I'm not going to snowboard anymore because there's a very high acute injury risk of that. I would also say, well, what about your running? You're at a higher risk there. You're. So what are you gonna do here? So I don't worry about it personally. In terms of acute injury risk, I actually like things that are fairly high acute injury risk. I don't snowboard or ski, things like that. But many other things I do where I cut my risk is the other side of the equation. I don't want to do anything that is a controllable injury risk. I'm not going to run a bunch of mileage if I'm not moving. Well, that's a hundred percent controllable. Whether or not I get hurt hiking up and down a mountain or something, I can't control that. But I want that. I want that life experience in there. That's the game I want to play personally with our athletes. They've chosen the risk. I know those risks over there. So then we work as hard as we can on the other stuff. So we're going to do lots of Corrective movements and other stuff and sleep in the whole deal so that we can make sure we're not adding any more injury risk to that plate that is on that other side of that controllable.

Yeah.

Because we know we've already got our risk bucket full over there.

Yeah. You have this just a sidebar here. This reminds me of, like, so much of the tension in reacting to what I'm saying is the entire premise of my experiment is just a thought experiment that we're entering into a future that sits in tandem with giving birth to super intelligence.

Yeah.

And when that happens, our reality is going to be different then than it is today. And that means we're going to play different games. And so what I'm really trying to say is there's a possibility that as a species, when you're giving birth to superintelligence, gameplay changes. And so the previous ways we thought about existence, like, I'm willing to trade down my life, you know, to fight is no longer going to be a game that people are willing to play now, like, that's so offensive to some. Some people of like, you're taking away my free will. It's like, no, actually not. Like, culture is going to move in a certain direction and you're going to exist in that culture and it's just not going to be something people do. And so it's not necessarily so. Those who experienced in the moment, they feel a sense of loss of like, but I am this and this is my identity and this is my. But that's really. And I. To explain this to somebody is so hard that I'm simply saying human games are going to shift and that shift is likely going to point in the direction of increasing lifespan. Now we're going to play other stuff too. Like, it doesn't mean that fun goes away. Just fun is different than it is right now.

I think of all the inflammatory and perhaps overly aggressive things you've said in your career, that's not one of them. I mean, just look back at history with what we used to do for recreation.

Exactly.

Look what we do now. It's not difficult to project moving forward. We're probably going to minimize. And depending on where you want to put that flag, five years from now, no, 600 years from now, I think you're on a reasonable thing that says, hey, we're probably not playing football, you know, a thousand years from now. I. I love football. Like, coach NFL athletes. I played college football. I'm not very offended if. If you're like, hey, look, at what we've. Where we've been, where we're at. We're probably going to reduce the amount of things because it kind of sucks getting hurt all the time. I don't know. I'm not offended by you saying that, actually. You're probably right.

It's almost like I'm making a bet on a penny stock and everyone's like, that's a really stupid investment. I'm in these big S and P, and your bet's really dumb. And I'm saying it's legit, the right bet because. And it's going to happen faster. Yeah, Yeah.

I get. Of all the things you've done and said in your career, that's not high on my list of like.

But it really is. It's the source of contention. It's like when people have a beef with me, it's that I'm choosing a game different than what people are playing today. They feel like they need to dunk on me and. Or justify their existence and. Or both. Like, there's tension created that they have to reconcile through some way.

Yeah. My position on this with. With all characters in the field is really not changed. I don't really care what anyone wants to do in this type of space, as long as they are not misrepresenting data, they are not providing false hope, especially to vulnerable populations. So people that are sick or emotionally distraught, things like that. Right. We have to be really careful to make sure we're not laying them down a false hole. Especially if you're then extracting money out of it, selling services, that really is the line that we have to go after. Right. We cannot misrepresent data. We cannot say things are proven when they are not. We cannot. Especially when I'm in position of power. And we can't prey upon vulnerable positions, financial, emotional, other ones. If we're outside of that. If David Goggins wants to run a marathon every day and people want to follow that advice and they all end up hurt. I don't really. I'm not. I don't hold David a single cent responsible for that. He's very clear with what he said. Right. If you want to do your thing, I don't really care. If you were to be online saying you're doing A, B and C and then you were doing something else in the background, then I'm like, okay, you're fraud. That's not. That's not the truth. If you are misrepresenting the nature of the research, whether that is scientific stuff or your Own like I don't care. Those are red flags. Those are, are, those are bad actors in my field, in my opinion.

Yeah.

But outside of that, like you're playing again a very different game. I don't want to play the game.

But yeah, pretty fun. Injury. So summary on injury for those listening would be know the game you're playing.

Yep.

So if you're playing the resilience, endurance, I want to check a box of doing something insanely hard. Just know you're playing that game and it comes with a trade off. Yeah. If you're playing my game of, of don't die. Just know what that game is, why you're playing it and how it's different than other people's games. And then if you're somewhere, somewhere else, like if you're somewhere in the middle. But really it's just the self awareness to say I choose the following things for the following reasons. So you're comfortable with what you're doing.

100% and you know by making that choice what your pros and cons are.

Yeah.

You're getting A, giving up. B. In classic Andy fashion. You had a great summary and I'm going to go back and add more things to it. Right. This is, this is, this is what I do.

Cool. So I think we succeeded today because I think it is so hard. I haven't yet been able to compress.

Yeah.

Exercise into an easily fallible format that doesn't just get demolished by method. 80 to 90% of the world lives.

Yeah.

In this area.

Totally.

Yeah. And then the remaining remaining people who really are at the talent of optimization, like that's their thing. They've got their own practices and they know what to do and it's great.

Yeah. Earlier we were talking about having a movement practice, having good range of motion. VO2 max has been covered ad nauseam. Talked about physical strength as well as sustained effort. We should be able to walk for five hours or be active and chasing our kids all day. Like however you want to frame this thing. One component though that gets forgotten a lot about and actually I noticed is very minimal in your program is speed and power development. It's really important that we do that for a bunch of reasons. One, almost by definition you're rarely going to do that in a single joint fashion. Other stuff can be done that way. So if you're working on VO2 Max and you're biking, knees and ankles are kind of moving a little bit, but really nothing else. And strength training can certainly be isolated, but power is hard to do with a single joint. So almost by default, we're using multiple joints at once and we are connecting joint to joint. And that's a very important concept that can get lost. I have to be able to transfer power from my foot to my shoulder and the entire connected chain. More importantly, we know that you will preferentially lose fast twitch muscle fibers with aging. And the only way to activate or preserve those fast twitch muscle fibers is very high force demand. We cannot get those through endurance training or activities daily living. We know we preferentially lose those. When those go away, they're not going to come back. We do have the ability to transform slow twitch fibers to fast twitch fibers and back and forth, but we need to preserve that. Lastly, if you look at the longevity research, there's a fun new phrase. You're aware of sarcopenia, which is the advanced loss of muscle with aging. But now we have what we call powerpenia. And that is, you'll see equally as impressive research on lack of power from every perspective, as a prognostic, as a epidemiological number for longevity. We can see it as a direct training application. So we have all layers of research supporting. We need to have power through aging. You are probably going to have the cardiovascular fitness by the time you get to be a hundred with what you're doing. You're probably going to have the leg strength. Whether or not you have the power is going to be a real hole because you have got to be able to get up those stairs. You have to get off the ground. That's not a slow activity, even a high force activity if there's a time domain to it. And by the way, this is what power is. It is force multiplied by velocity. It is work over time. And so let's use an example of if you're going to walk up some stairs, you might go out of breath walking up the stairs and you think, man, it's my VO2 max is low. If your legs are weak, then that step represents a 90% effort. As an example, what drove your heart rate up is the fact you just did a 90% squat, right? So that was a leg strength issue more than was a cardiovascular issue. By the same token, getting your foot up to the next step before you fall on your face is a velocity issue. You have to have the speed to get your foot up there, the strength to then stop your body from falling on top of it. And now the cardiovascular thing is a secondary input. As you move throughout life, you're going to be limited by your speed More than you will anything else. When we start talking about the numbers, you're talking about, if you want to live to 70, you'll probably be fine. Slow. If you want to live to 140, you have no chance. Living from 70 to 140. Slow as hell. It's a very hard thing to train. And it is the very first physiological trait that goes away with aging. And I see almost nobody paying attention to it from the aging longevity perspectives, despite the fact that we know those two big things.

Great summary.

So as long as we cover power or. Sorry, yeah. As long as we cover force and speed.

Yeah, we're there.

We've got power.

Andy, this has been great. I've been trying to find the power laws of how to approach health and wellness. And so we approached it initially looking at the markers of physical fitness that do have the highest predictive value for longevity. We look at VO2 max. We look at strength. I think some of the things you mentioned that I'm missing. Power. I think that's great. That's a new dimension of what we're doing. Also the rotation. I don't think I'm doing any rotation. So I'm excited to fill these holes of my routine, package it up in a way that can be easily implemented by others. So really enjoyed having you here. I thought this was a great conversation. The first time in my mind where things are easily structured and understood that someone else can be like, oh, sure, like, I can totally do this. So I enjoyed this.

All right, well, it was a real pleasure. And we got a couple things to work on in the gym, but there's also some things we haven't unveiled yet, so you'll have to check that video out to see.

Exciting. Look at that promo for you cool guys. All right. Yeah, this was great.

Amazing.