A Beginner's Guide to Marketing In Fitness

You're listening to the PT Proffitt podcast, episode number 40. Today I'm sitting down with Jill Coleman and we're talking all about a beginner's guide to marketing in fitness. Are you ready? Stay tuned. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Welcome back to another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and I am so excited to dive into today's episode. Honestly, it's taken me a couple of times to record this intro and I in full transparency. I was so nervous to record this episode because, well, Jill is someone that really means a lot to me. And so, and I do share this in the episode that if it wasn't for her, there's no way that I'd be where I am today. She really jump started me in my fitness business and also in my current business. If it weren't for her, there's no way that I would be here. And I always joke because I want to call her my first business coach. But the truth of the matter, which I did share in here, is that she wasn't my first business coach. I'll say that she was the first business coach I had that really resonated with me and had helped me see things in a different way. And I just, you know, grew from there. And now that's not to say that my first business coach was bad or wrong or whatever. I just didn't know what to expect. And there's so many lessons that I learned from that experience. So it's not necessarily that it was bad or wrong. It just gave me the lessons I needed so that I could move on and find her and then keep moving forward in my business and in my growth and in my development. And so it's truly a pleasure and a privilege to sit down with her and have this conversation because it was a really powerful one. We talked about common misconceptions or rather mistakes that personal trainers often make when they are first entering the online space. And with that, since we were also talking about the beginner's experience, we also talked about the comparison trap and how many people operate from this place of feeling like so and so is doing it better than me. How can I contribute? And her and I do share some similar experience in the sense that we work with people that tend to often seem like they are presenting the same or similar offers and it's just not the case. And so we actually talk about that in this episode. We also talked about client results and how we and we also talked about client results and, and what the level of responsibility is for coaches versus clients and how we navigate those crucial conversations and also how we are able to look at it from, from a very clinical perspective. We also talked about the importance of staying consistent and also relevant in the space because Jill, which she shares in this episode. So Jill in this space for a full decade, 2010. And we actually talk about how she's able to not only stay consistent but also stay relevant. So Jill Coleman is the owner, the founder of Jill Fit, which she started in 2010 and before that she was the co founder of Metabolic Effect. But she has been in the fitness and health industry for over 20 years. She got her very first job in the gym when she was 15 and ever since then she has dived deep into the science of training. She has been on several national covers for fitness modeling. She has, her work has been featured in Self magazine, Family Circle, Shape, Women's Health Magazine, Prevention Magazine, and many other media platforms. Her passion, however, does lie in coaching and she both does both body and business. Two thirds of her business is built on business coaching and then the rest is still in the fitness space with the general population, which she does share inside of this episode. So I'm really excited to get this episode to you today. So without further ado, let's roll that interview. Jill, I'm so excited that you are here. Thank you so much. Truly, it is a pleasure and a privilege because the truth of the matter is that there is no way that I would be where I am today without you. And I'm so grateful for you in my life and super excited to dive into this show. How are you?

I am so good and I'm so excited to just be able to see your face and chat with you and just love, obviously love so much what you're doing and cannot wait to just get into all the good stuff.

Yeah. So let's just go ahead and dive in. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, who you serve and how you got there?

Yes. So I do have a fitness online fitness and nutrition brand called Jill Fit and I started actually a decade ago this month and it was literally October 2010 and at the Time Internet business, it seemed it was a thing, but it wasn't as big as it is now. So for me, I started out, this is kind of like the golden age of blogging. I was a blogger at the time and I was a full time personal trainer. I was running a university fitness center at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And I was so maxed out working about 70 to 80 hours in the gym. And I kind of saw people around me starting to do blogs and I had tried one in 2007 that of course I couldn't keep up with, like most people can't. But in 2010 I was like, you know what, I really want to make this happen. And I don't know what it's going gonna look like yet. I don't know what my online business is going to look like, but I have a whole bunch of ideas in my brain. I have workouts, I have recipes, I have tips, I have tools. Let me see if I could just put them in one place so people can get that content. People live outside of Winston Salem, North Carolina. And so my honestly, the opportunity for me at that time was just consistency. I wasn't really like a genius when it came to biochemistry. I certainly wasn't like, you know, a hormonal specialist or anything like PhD level anything. For me, I was just really good at being consistent and I churned out a ton of content over the first two years. We actually blogged at Jill Fit every day for two years. And so it wasn't mind blowing content, it was very simple. Recipes, workouts, tips, tools, stuff like that. And I just got really good at building a loyal readership because we were so reliable, like we were just always there, we always had new content. And so now I would not necessarily recommend that strategy today, but what it did was it helped me get a lot of reps and it helped me just build a body of work that people got to know me. Over time we started getting more inquiries for one on one coaching. So that was kind of like the first iteration out of personal training was one on one coaching online. And so I was like, well, I don't know exactly how this works, but I'll just take one client and see how we do. And over the course of the first 18 months of the business, we had over 100 clients. And when I say we, I said I had five actual coaches working underneath me and we were all doing one on one sort of meal plans and workout programs. It was great, except, you know exactly what happened. We totally maxed out time for Money again. So now instead of being totally maxed out in the gym, I would come home from the gym at 8 o' clock and I'd write meal plans and programs until one in the morning. So I kind of doubled my work, but I was stuck. I didn't know how to scale, I didn't know how to automate anything. I didn't know how to create more like self paced courses or group programs. And not many people really doing those kind of things at that time. I'm sure there were, but I wasn't in those pockets. And that was when I sort of reached out and got my first business coach. And it was two years into the business and it was a huge investment. So, so uncomfortable. But I knew that I didn't have answers and I felt super st. And when I did that, the most powerful thing about investing in myself really was about the action it forced me to take to make the money to invest. So if anyone is listening to this and you've made a big investment in a business coach or in your business, you know that oftentimes it's not like the thing that you learn in the program, it's the person you know have to become to sort of justify that investment. So for me, I was a fitness person who had a business. I had to become now a businesswoman, which is just totally different. That's a totally different skillset. And you guys know that because you're listening to this podcast, so you're not supposed to know sales, marketing, all this kind of stuff. It's a totally different skillset from being a trainer. And it was at that time that I started doing business coaches. People were asking me how are you doing what you're doing? And I didn't know everything, but I knew at least what I had done to grow my business online to a six figure company within about a year and a half. And so I just started teaching that model for a while. And of course it's changed over the years, but I make probably now 2/3 of my income. So through online coaching for fitness professionals in the business realm. The other third is direct to consumer fitness and nutrition, still sort of self paced courses. So I have my hand in both pots. I love working with gen pop and I really love working with professionals. And it's been so far it's worked out okay.

That's amazing. And listen, I'll say too that when I made that decision and invested in your mastermind, I have made some of the most like my best friends have come from that program that I Still talk to. Right? So it's so, it's so powerful. Not only are you going to, not only are you going to potentially say to yourself, teach yourself, listen, I am serious. I'm a businesswoman. You're also going to put yourself in the room with people who are going to become your potential business partners, your best friends and do the same thing, which I think is really powerful.

It's so powerful. And it's, it's even more powerful if you're in a group with people who are similar to you. So anytime I always tell people like, and I run a mastermind now, which is kind of like my higher tier sort of business coaching. And what's really powerful about the group is that everyone found me of their own accord, right? They found me from some piece of content or my personality. They attended a webinar or something happened that they felt like, you know what, I know Jill, I like her and I trust her on some level. And so they all were sort of independently attracted to my business. So that's good for everyone in the group because that means they're probably similar to each other too, right? Because they were all attracted to the same coach or the same mentor. And so oftentimes, every once in a while I'll get kind of an outlier where I'm like, how did you find your way into this group? Like, it's just a weird sort of like personality, not quite a match. And you know me, Bev, I'm very sort of direct and very action oriented. I'm probably not going to be that like in your feels coach, where it's like, let's talk about like, you know, I don't know, your childhood. Like, we're probably not going to talk about that. It's going to be very like tactical, very strategic. So every once in a while I'll get like a little bit of an outlier. But for the most part, everyone who's in that group are very similar. So it's not surprising that you would connect with them on a, like, on a human to human friend level. Right. And then you can create collaborations. And I know for a fact you've done collaborations with different people in the groups and stuff and, and you take those relationships way beyond the mastermind and for years to come. So it's magical.

Yes, for sure. So I'm curious, you know, in this vein, when we're talking about like minds being attracted to like minds and you have facilitated lots of groups and group coaching and group masterminds, I'm curious how you have navigated the different energies of people feeling like they're comparison comparing themselves to their colleagues. How have you been able to navigate those relationships for people to feel like, well, she does the same thing as I do. How have you been able to navigate that and also help people stand apart?

It's such a great question. And I don't know that I'm the best at it, to be honest. I think that I am the type of person who really wants to develop my clients in like a self sufficiency manner. And you know, I am someone who has a good amount of boundaries and I also. But you know, to me like, I will do whatever I can. I will go to the ends of the earth to get you any resource, mindset, tool, strategy, tool, whatever you need to be successful. But when it comes to like dispelling comparison number one, I can say that I think that's a little bit more prevalent at the beginning of your journey. I think it's really easy to sort of like catch the like shiny object syndrome at the beginning because ultimately that's what it is, right? Like if you're not sold on what you're doing, you're going to be much more likely to think you should be doing something else because that person is doing that and they're generating however much money and they have all these followers, whatever, and you go, maybe I should do that. Because you're not solid on your journey yet. So I will say that most people I know who are at a level, have reached a level of success aren't doing that anymore. I think you're the most susceptible to comparisonitis at the beginning because you don't, you don't know that you're good yet. And that's normal once you start having some of your own wins and you're at this place, I'm sure now Bev, where you're like, how could I even compare myself to anyone? Like, it's not, it's not even, we're not even in the similar like, lane. We're not in the same lane. We're not the same. Like you probably now see all of this as so different, but when you first get into this space, you do have kind of a scarce mindset. You kind of feel like if someone is doing well that somehow on some levels taking away from your ability to do well. And it's just not. There's not like this kind of zero sum game. In fact, like when I see people doing well in one area, I'm like, that's amazing because it gives me Permission, like, oh, shit. Like, I could do that too. Like, nothing special. I literally like. And I know this is kind of counterintuitive, but I look at someone who's successful, and I really go, like, damn, I'm just as good, if not better than that person. And they're fucking crushing. So why couldn't I do it? And to me, it inspires me, and it incentivizes me to find my own path to the success. I know. And you know this as a personal brand, if you're online, people are connecting with your face, your voice, your personality, your expertise, your experience, all those things. It's such a puzzle that you really couldn't be even in comparison with someone else because they have their own things that they're bringing to the table. But when you're first getting started, everyone kind of feels like they're saying the same thing. But it's also probably because you're following your peers, right? We're all following each other. The average client who you're trying to reach is following you. And maybe like, two other fitness people, right? They're not following all these people in the industry that we are. So it's really easy for us to feel as though everything's been said that we're not as good, that someone else is having success. So that means we can't. Like, we're really susceptible those things. But the average client who we're trying to reach, like, you're their number one. And to me, I'm like. I find a lot of, like, solace in that. And I'm like, you know what? They all they know is me and, like, Jillian Michaels, you know, and so they're picking between the two of us. And so I think Jillian Michaels, Yeah. I mean, oh, my gosh.

That just way back into the 2000s.

I know, I'm like, is she still relevant? So anyway, to that end, I think that one of the ways that we can help our clients maybe get. Pull themselves out of that is start to really get excited about their own gifts. You know, I think at the end of the day, like, we have to get. We personally have to go, you know, what is different about me? And oftentimes it comes down to your experiences, it comes down to your stories, it comes down to your struggles, it comes down to your quirky personality traits. You know, all those kind of things. When I think about health coaches and, you know, all these kind of Internet coaches and personal brand people, most of us have around the same level of credibility. Most of us have around the same level of certification, right? It's like NASA or ACSM or like NSCA or something. Like, there's not. Unless you're like a PhD or a doctor, you're pretty much around the same level of expertise. So the idea that you can compete on expertise, I think, is a little shortsighted. I think that the opportunity, if we're going to compete or find our own lane, is going to be on the other stuff. It's going to be on your stories. It's going to be on your struggles. It's going to be on your voice, your personality. It's going to be, you know, any sort of quirky things that you do that set you apart. So I don't think try to be the smartest. I don't think that's ever going to be the thing that you're going to. I don't think that's the award you're going to win. I think the race that you're going to win is the unique things that you bring to the table. Those unique personality traits that those that your clients are attracted to, they're not going, oh, Bev's so smart. I want to work with her. They're going, she gets me. Like, she totally gets me. She, you know, she likes her coffee the same way we read the same book. Like, she cusses or like, what? Like, all those kind of things are really what is going to make that client coach connection really unique. And when you think about it that way, no one can compete with that.

It's one of the many things I love about you, but is that you really have embraced. And not only you don't just say it, you live by it. You operate from this abundance that looking at somebody else's success means nothing about your success. It just means that that's what's possible for you. And I think that's so important when you're navigating this new online space, because it can be so easy to go in there and be like, well, I can't say it better than she did, right?

Where do you go from there? Where do you go from there? Like, that to me is like, that's a dead end. So I'm going, okay, well, that's a dead end. Where else can I go? You know, what else can I do? And oftentimes, like I said, it's. It's oftentimes when you haven't had success yet in your own thing quite yet, and so you're really susceptible to, like, what other people are doing. Maybe I should do a webinar maybe I should do a challenge. Maybe I should do. You know, like you're just constantly inundated. Look, there's no shortage of ideas. Like you can do all so many things in this industry, but how you're going to arrive at success is going to look so different from someone else. Right? Like you might have a six figure multiple, six figure, seven figure, business, whatever, but it's going to look the way you got there is going to look so different. And so the idea that you could even compare to me is just futile. It's not really even possible. But it does happen. And so I want to validate that. And I think, you know, sometimes we'll see this in the, even in the body change space. For example, let's just say you had adrenal fatigue or something and you're having to like take a lot of time off and you're having to like, you know, really kind of maybe even gain some weight to get your period back or something like that. We'll look at someone who's like, you know, losing weight or getting ready for a show or, you know, something like that and we'll feel that, we'll feel like, oh my God, like I should be doing that or whatever. I certainly went through that period when I stopped competing and I moved more into moderation. 365, which is my nutrition philosophy. I had those feelings of like, should I be leaner, should I do more? You know, so it started there and then of course it translates into business. If you don't take care of it, it translates into the next sort of venture that you do. And so a lot of this comes down to also just self trust and building your self worth and understanding that you have something valuable to offer that is completely unique from someone else.

I love that you're also bringing in the fitness because if you look at the fitness space, everything works. Every diet works and they're all competing with each other, but yet every single diet has success stories. So it's not about finding the right one or the right way. It's about what works for you. Both from a mental resilience place as well. Which is, which I think is so important.

It really is. And you know, it's funny I think about, especially now in this space, like 2010, 20. I mean, sorry, like 2020 versus 2010. When I started, you know, in 2010, there felt like there was a lot of online coaches. So it felt kind of crowded. Now it's really crowded right now. Now it's like way more crowded than it was 10 years ago. But back then, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, there was, I kind of think about it like, I think I might have given this, this, you might have heard me use this analogy before. But coaches were kind of like, you know, like in the 50s, there was like three types of ice cream flavors. It was like chocolate, vanilla and strawberry. Like, that's all you had to choose from. Like 10, 20 years ago with online coaching. Now if you walk into your local ice cream shop, there's 20 versions of just chocolate. There's chocolate chunk, there's chocolate chip, there's double chocolate, triple chocolate, death by chocolate. Right? Same thing with online coaches. So 10 years ago you might been like, ah, like, I guess I'll just, just hire this business coach because they seem to be okay. Now it's like you get to really match perfectly with the coach you want to hire because it's like you're taking into consideration everything because there's just more options. And I love this because what it has helped us do is the client to coach. Matching now is so much more specific than it was 10 years ago, and we're getting better results because of it. So while more people are coming into the space, we also have a lot more gen pop people coming in and wanting coaching and being open to it, Downloading apps, doing zoom classes, et cetera, and with online services. So everyone's kind of going online and the matching is so much better, which is getting our clients better results. So to me, I always just remind myself that, like, I want, I want to attract the right person and if it's not a clear match, I don't want to work with that person and they shouldn't want to work with me either. So in that way, there are a lot of options. But we also have the unique ability now to stand out more than we ever have. That makes sense.

Yeah. Yes, sure. And you know, this is leading to, It's a great segue into this question because one of the things that you were talking about are the differences between 2010 and 2020, which is one of the other things, speaking of resiliency that I love about you is that you have been in it from the beginning and you are consistent and you always go. And one of your, in my opinion, superpowers is the ability to get people to turn, take messy action. And I know for me, when I've only been in this space for four years, it might as well be 400. That's what it feels like. But when I look out into the space People that I started with are no longer doing it. Nope. You know, and every year that goes by, there's more people that start and then fall off and then start and fall off. I just. It's been amazing to watch and to see. So how are some of the. What are some of the ways that you have been able to not only stay consistent but stay relevant?

Good question. And this is something I'm constantly thinking about, you know, as someone who is obviously getting older in a space that is really driven by aesthetics. You know, like, all these kind of things we kind of think about when you have a personal brand. I ask myself at times, like, do I want to be 50 and still, like, showing up on social media every day? You know, like, there's a lot of different. Not that 50's old, but I mean, that's fucking. That's 20 years from when I started. Right. So it's like, do I still want to be? So I have all those kind of. Of questions and concerns and things like that. I think, number one, and I agree with you, I think a lot of people start, and I would probably say, like, 10% of people actually stay in this game. You know it firsthand. I know it firsthand. It is not easy, and it's not for everybody. You know, there's a lot of. You have to do a lot of thankless things in the beginning, and you're wondering, when is this going to pay off? Why am I doing this? Who's paying attention? Who gives a shit? Like, all of these things, you have all these feelings. Like, you put so much work in, and the outcome that you get is not commensurate with the effort. You're going, I did all of this stuff and I only sold seven. Like, it's just not. And you just are constantly let down. You're constantly frustrated, and then at some point you turn a corner, and all of a sudden things start coming a little bit easier, and there's a little bit more momentum, and you're not fighting tooth and nail for every single subscriber and opportunity and follower and all this kind of stu. And it starts to feel like, okay, my effort is paying off. And there's, like, this threshold. And in my experience, if you are consistent, it's usually around 18 to 24 months where you're going, you know, but that's a long time to ask someone to wait. Especially when we are in, quote, competition with, like, a regular job. Someone's going, why am I doing all this? When I could literally go get a job at Starbucks have benefits, get a check every two weeks. Like, why would I ever do this? And I would never judge someone for doing that. This is not easy. You said it. We need to have a lot of resiliency in this space. So I've asked some of my clients who have stayed in the game. You know, a friend of ours, Kim Schaefer, who's obviously coached me now for a long time, and I asked. I remember talking to her. I've talked to a few others, and I was like, what was it that has kept you going? Like, what is it that. And it's just like, when I start to feel like, why am I doing this? When I start to reach that, like, high frustration point, something happens. An opportunity comes across my desk, something pops into my inbox. I get a new client. You know, something happens that just keeps me in it and keeps affirming that I'm moving in the right direction, you know? And so I think you get to a point where once you get to that point, when you break through that sort of threshold, at that point, you really can't. You could, but you can't really go away at that point. You're on the hook. People know who you are. You built a body of work. Like, you're a thing now. So when you get to that point, it's kind of like, okay, I guess I'm doing. Doing this. Even though it's frustrating. It's like, pick your poison. You can get a regular job, work for someone else. And that's, quote, a little bit more certain, I guess. But are you going to be pumped about that? Do you love your work? What we get to do is driven by passion and purpose. I wake up every day and I'm super psyched to create something, but not everyone needs that or likes that. And some people have different priorities and whatever. And if you have kids and you need to make sure you got to get money every two weeks, then you might need to go get a job. But for me, the fun of this has really been iterating. And I think this is the thing that I'm constantly thinking about. About five years ago, I would say five, six years ago, I had this moment where I had taken my hand off the pulse of what was happening in the industry, and I was, like, kind of got blindsided. I was teaching sort of like the old blogging model at the time, because that was what had worked for me. And then all of a sudden, things started shifting, and I just wasn't paying attention. And what happened was a lot of my clients were not getting results. And I was like, hold on. Shit. Like, this is my issue. This is my responsibility. And so I had that moment and from then on I was like, it is literally, literally my job. It's literally my job to stay up on what is actually happening in the space. Which is why I still love having that third of my business that is gen pop, because I'm literally doing it in real time with my clients. I'm talking to my clients all the time, and I'm with them and we're texting back and forth during their launches. I know what's going on in the space, like, minute to minute now. And so to me, that has helped me continue to iterate and go over the momentum is. And get super clinical. I don't get at all ego about my shit. You know, that's the thing is, like, I think I was holding on so tightly to that original model because it was what had worked for me. And giving it up felt like, oh, my God, if I give this up, then where am I going? Now I just look at everything like a puzzle. I'm not attached to any certain way of doing things. To me, I'm just like, what is working? And let's go where the momentum is there. So the iterating has been a way to stay relevant, but it's not for everyone. Like, I have a lot of energy and I like to, like, be on top of stuff and I like to take a whole bunch of calls and I like to be in the trench with my clients. Some people get tired, some people get burned out, and that's fine. I would never judge them for that either. But I found a way to really just like, oscillate my energy so that I can stay up on it and stay excited about the changes and not feel like they're frustrating to me. That makes sense.

Yes. And I love that. And I think that when I look back on my time, you know, from the beginning, I think one of the things that I believe in lessons. So I am so grateful for every failure that I deemed at the time. Like, I will never forget. I mean, I would have calls with Jill and I would ha. I would be crying on these calls about, like, why is it not working? And I look back on it now and I'm so grateful because for me, I found that people that have success early and fast, they have a misconception of really what to expect. Their expectations of conversions and what are going to, you know, what's going to happen is. Is just, in my opinion, they fall Harder because they've got. They had accidental success. It's the people that are in the trenches that keep getting the lessons that end up being exponentially growing.

Absolutely. No, it is. I mean, it's funny. I mean, you were always a dream to work with because you were just like, a huge action taker. Like, I would just be like, cool, do this. You're, like, done. Like, it just literally was the easiest. And I think I attract people like that. Anyway, so for you, we got a shitload of lessons when we work together, because it's like, boom, boom, boom. Let's try this. Let's try this, let's try this. You know, it's almost like. And you really had what I consider a pivot mindset. It was like, okay, we're like, this is not working. Let's go over here. Okay, this is not where we want to go. Let's go over here. Like. And I think back to our conversation around resiliency. My mantra has been, for the last several years, I can see this as a pain or I can see this as a puzzle. And I think when I get so caught up in the emotional attachment to the outcome, like, again, that's normal, because this is our baby, right? We're like birthing a creation into the world, and we're putting it out there. And then we're like, I hope you will buy this. And it's scary because it's our thing. We just want people to like it. We want them to like us. And so I think it's really easy to get really emotional about the outcome. I wanted to sell 30, and I only sold a lot or whatever, right? And we catastrophize and make that mean that, like, somehow we're bad at this or we shouldn't be doing this, or it's all bad. It's never going to work. Like, we go 10 steps down the road when really it's just a marketing issue. Like, to me, I'm just like, this is a puzzle to be solved, right? Like, you're an expert. You're good at this. We just didn't put the language together. For whatever reason, it did not connect with the person. So we just need to get better at marketing. We need to go back and build more trust. We need to get more people in the pipeline. Like. Like, it's always a marketing puzzle. It's not like a you problem. And I think when you can start to detach that emotional component and just get really clinical in your business, I think it takes time to get there. When you can get really clinical in your business, then you are able to just go, well, we ran up against the dead end. Where do we go from here? Instead of just getting super emo and then, like, going and crying in a corner, and then it takes you, like, months and months and months to get enough, like, courage to do the next thing. I think that's common at the beginning. I think everyone I know who's successful business person at this point just is like, cool. That's a dead end. That's. That's. That's a no. Where do we have to go from here? What's the workaround? What's the next step? We get it back to the drawing board. And it's very clinical to me. It just. It has to be. Or else you're going to give up.

Absolutely. And I think too, you know, this is one of the main reasons why I think it's important to always have a coach and why as a coach, I will always have a coach. Because there are things, things a. That you can't change, what you can't see. And that this conversation sometimes when we know better doesn't always mean that we do better. And there are still things that I will, you know, like, for me, I teach messaging. So I get super attached to my copy. I think, oh, my copy is brilliant. And I'll put it out there and it won't land. And I'll be like, what the F, Right? This, this is the best thing that since sliced bread. What's wrong with these people? Right?

So easy. It's so easy to be like, these are just cheap people, right? Like, if you just blame the client, you know, we could be like, I think I just don't have people that pay money. And it's like, everyone will pay money if they see the value. And it's not that it's not valuable. When I say they don't see the value, I'm not saying it's not valuable. I'm saying for whatever reason, we haven't communicated the value appropriately. And that's just a marketing issue. So we just got to get better at that. So it's very clinical. And I think once you make that shift, you're able to stay in the game. Like, your ability to be clinical and to be objective is your tenacity tool.

Yeah, it's for sure. So, you know, I'd love for you to go into. Because I know that you had recently talked about this on your. On Instagram. You know, what are some of the common misconceptions that or Misconceptions is probably the wrong word. But what are some of the common mistakes that new trainers that are entering the online space typically make when they're starting to present and put together their online offer?

I'm like, what Instagram post with that there? Yeah, I mean, I think that there are. I mean, you know, I kind of think about it in terms of when I think about putting together an offer. I would say probably especially for newbies to the space. One of the biggest mistakes that I see is they're just too multi passionate and they're not breaking through with any one thing. So for example, when I talk to someone and this is just normal because we are, you know, we're like multi passionate humans. So someone will come to me and say, well, I'm really, I want to talk about nutrition and macros and I also want to, you know, do like metcons and like fitness stuff, like get stronger and like, get buff. And then I also want to do like, you know, mindset too, because we know it's about mindset also. But then like personal development. Like I would love to have like a book club and like, and I'm like, yeah, I mean, I understand that you are passionate, but you can't be multi creative. You can be multi passionate, but you can't be multi creative, at least at the beginning. And so you need to break through in one of those things first. There's almost like this trust barrier that we have, right? Like you have to kind of break through. And what I see a lot of new coaches doing is because they're so excited and they have multiple things they're interested in, they're kind of throwing like these little darts arts at this thing and it's like mindset, fitness, nutrition, relationships, personal development. Like all the things you're excited about, they're showing all these like, but it's. None of them are big enough to break through. And then once they're like, you know what, I'm just going all in on macros. Like, that's just going to be it for me. I'm just going all into macros. Doesn't mean every once in a while I don't share the book I'm reading or, you know, talk about a little personal development thing. But like 90% of my content is going to be around nutrition and macros and like, I just want to be known for that thing in the space space. Now all of a sudden we have a battering ram and all of a sudden all of our content, all of our effort, all of that consistency, we're able to break through that trust barrier. And on the other side of that trust barrier is the momentum. That's when people start to really see you as that person. You know, what's that? Like one word or one idea that is going to be synonymous with your name? Oh, Bev. She's the one who does that podcast. She's the one who does this. Like, it should be like, one or two words. So I'm not a huge fan of like, I help statement. I think that's fine. I help blank. Do blank. I think that's okay. But even shorter and extra. Now, like one word, you know. Oh, you know, Jill is moderation. 365 or, you know, Eve is macros. Like, I just need like one or two words to describe that person. And if you. If someone can't summarize what you do in one or two words, then it's too much shit. You're not going to break through on the other side of the trust barrier. You can go whatever direction you want to. Let's say you break through in macros and you're like the go to person for macros. And like, that's just the like. And now all of a sudden, maybe you want to do business coaching. Awesome. Now you have success in one area. So those people have gotten success with you in that area, are more likely to come over and do business coaching with you because they trust you in one area versus you being like, yeah, I do business coaching and nutrition and fitness. Honestly, I would not recommend someone set up their business like I have because I do have fitness and nutrition sort of content as well as business content. But it only works because I broke through with fitness and nutrition first. And then people start asking, oh, what are you doing? Like, how are you building your business? Maybe I could build my business. Right? So I do work with a lot of beginners as well. Because of that, they've had some sort of transformation, nutrition transformation with me. And they're a professional and they potentially want to do some business stuff too.

So I'm glad that you bring this up because I think this is something that's come up for me and my clients, and I'm sure it's come up for you too. Is a lot of people will ask me, you know, do I need to have multiple Instagram accounts? Right? And I'm always like, no, because the amount of energy it takes to just run one. Can we, like, just like, calm it down for a second? But I'm curious, like, how have you Been able to navigate your content as, you know, you're doing, you know, 75% for fitness professionals and then also gen pop. Like, do you ever feel like it's disjointed or does it ever feel like it's been an issue?

So I tend to have more seasons in the business. I'm not doing multiple offers at once. I'm not like, it's a fitness offer, that's a business offer. Then it's a, you know, like, I'm not. I used to do more like mindset stuff, like back in like 2013, 2012, 2014. I used to do more mindset type content too. I still kind of sprinkle that in here and there because I don't.

There's any way I have your mindset program like that. You did like a mindset email thing. Honestly, that's one of the main reasons that brought me to you. Because I was a victim.

Right.

I used to think in this place of like, why is this happening to me? Instead of recognizing and realizing that this was for me. And it was. I had bought your mindset program that talked all about abundance and your experience. And I was like, mind blown at the time.

Yeah. And that's right. Like, and so I love that example because then you and I end up doing business coaching together. Right? So it's like an example of trust translating. You had some insights through the mindset stuff and it was like, cool. I don't really do as much of that anymore because honestly, I just feel like that space is like, super saturated and like, people are just doing it way better than I am. So I'm like, that's just whatever. But I tend to have more seasons in the business. But I can tell you when I switch gears from fitness and nutrition to more business stuff, I do tend to lose some steam. I do tend to like, turn off a percentage of my audience from that. So I would say that's probably the switch that happens the most at this point. It hasn't been detrimental to success of the business, but I would. It is a little bit of a cautionary tale. If someone's starting this way. I would not recommend it. I would recommend, like doubling down on like one single thing first. Breaking through, having a lot of success. You're going to feel like you're a broken record. It's not going to come off like that, but you're going to feel like, holy shit, if I have to talk about macros one more time, I'm going to shoot myself. Like, that's how you're going to feel, but they still need it, they still want it, they need to hear it a bunch of different times, right? So like, like double down for a couple years on one single thing. Breakthrough. And then you will have earned the right to be like, you know what I do, business coaching, or you know what I'm going to do, you know, relationship life coaching stuff. Right? Like, then you can take them on the journey. But if you're constantly dabbling in a whole bunch of different things, you're never going to break through and have success in at least one, you know.

And I think it comes back to what you were saying earlier is I think that kind of goes hand in hand with that shiny I object syndrome. I think trainers have the luxury and the gift of working with so many different types of people, especially if they're coming from a gym, gym or clinician setting. They, they worry that, oh, if I cut myself off, then I'm not going to be able to help everyone and I have to only help this one person. Not recognizing that talent talks. And if somebody is like, oh, well, that person's helping moms really well, just because I'm not a mom doesn't mean they can't help me, you know?

Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing, I think the trap that a lot of you come from the gym, you know, I think we used to think it was a benefit to be like, I help people from all walks of life, right? Like you people have that on their website. Like I help the stay at home mom and the busy businesswoman and the postmenopausal, you know, woman and the young dude who wants to get muscle. Like we are at the mercy. If you're in the gym business or your trainer, like you're at the mercy of who walks through the door and you can get them. You can get most people results, right? You're like, I can, Doug, maybe dabble in powerlifting, maybe dabble in like getting person stronger, putting on muscle, fat loss. Like I can kind of dabble in a lot of these things. But online you have to choose your audience. You have to like very, be very specific. So I have an exercise that I give my clients called Niche and Pitch. And essentially what it is, it's like, it's basically like a square and the four quadrants, top left hand, corner, quadrant, is just like your ica. It's who you help. It's like the, it is the, you know, sort of audience that you want to pick online, which you have to, you have to pick somebody you want to help? Chances are this is a previous version of you. It's maybe something that someone who wants to make a transformation that you've already made. And this is kind of all the traditional things we've seen about demographics, struggles, frustration, success, etc. Top right hand corner is who you don't work with. And this is just as important as who you work with with. And the reason why is because you need to have a line in the sand. If someone comes to me and they're like, hey Jill, I want to open a gym, I'd be like, I maybe get you a couple steps of the way. But like, I know that that's not my zone of genius, right? Like, if someone comes to me is like, hey, I'm a personal trainer, I want to take my services online. I'm like, let's fucking go. But like, if it's that type of like a gym owner or like someone who wants to do like a supplement, like MLM or whatever, like, I'm not the best at that. There's someone else who can do better with that person and it's that you draw that line, the sand number one. Because it's a, it's not a win win for either of you. If you're both trying to make that happen. When neither one of you, it's a good fit for it opens up a lot of space for you to take on your actual perfect client so that you can get them the better results. We're going to fuel testimonials, case studies, screenshots, all that stuff that's going to fuel your business moving forward. It's not good for anyone to have a situation where you're just not. It's not a good fit. Bottom left hand quadrant is. So it's who you work with, it's what you, what you're the best, what transformation you're the best at facilitating, right? So what are you the absolute best at? Someone came to me was like, hey, Jill, I want to do a powerlifting competition. I'd be like, probably not. Like, I could maybe help a little bit, but it's probably not me, right? But if someone comes to me and it's like, hey, I have an obsessive kind of personality around food. I really want to break through like, and have more food freedom. And like, this is just the thing that I want to double down on. I'm like, I got you, right? That's moderation.365. That's like my zone of genius. Bottom right hand corner is what you don't do what you don't help with, right? So it's like things again, someone comes to me and they want to start a supplement line. I'm not your person. They want to start a clothing line, not your person, right? So you have to be very clear on who you work with, who you don't work with, what transformation you the absolute best of facilitating, and then what you don't do. Now that when I say what you're absolute best at facilitating, what I mean is like, double down on that shit, right? Like, that's your zone of genius. Like, put your stake in the ground as the person who does that, the absol best and be known for that thing. But you have to choose it versus at the gym where you want to help everybody, and that's great. But online, you have to choose it or else you're going to spend your time just really not making any. You're not going to be able to make any sales because no one's going to know what you're known for.

I think that's one of the lessons that I've talked about and on this podcast, it's one of the lessons I wish I had learned faster, which is that, you know, and I think that's just part of starting out and wanting to, you know, be like, liked and liked by your peers and colleagues. But I wanted to talk about fat loss, and I should have just talked about fat loss faster, but I just took so long. It was like, I was always talking about it in a roundabout way and it was like, beverly, get it together. Just talk about fat loss.

Well, especially because you, you know, there is obviously like a push in our space right now. Like, we don't want to, like, body shame people and want to make sure that we're not like, fat, phobic, whatever. But when we have clients coming to us, us who are going, like, I want to lose fat. I want to do it in a healthy, responsible way. Like, they shouldn't be going to Whole 30 or whatever they're going to. They should be going to you, right? Like, just say that you're the best at this thing, you're the best at sustainable fat loss. And like, put your stake in the ground and be known for that unapologetically. But I get it. I think we have a lot of considerations at first, for sure.

Yes. So I'm curious, you know, speak. You know, we're talking a lot about, you know, clients and work as coaches, working with clients. You know, how do you navigate? You kind of talked about it a Little bit. And I'd love for you to go deeper about, you know, navigating and evaluating your level of responsibility when it comes to client results. And I think that this is important, you know, as personal trainers because like you said, people will say like, oh, well, I can't, I can't, I just can't work with anybody because they are. I only get the broke people or people who can't afford it, or my clients don't get results because they have all these horns, hormone things and I can't help them. Like, when do you draw your line of responsibility for what you're responsible for.

And results and what you're not? I think you start that before the sale even happens. I think it's important that you set expectations ahead of the sale and pre qualify people for the sale. So what I mean by that is I do, you know, I'll do sales calls for some of my higher ticket coaching. And one of the things I tell them at the beginning, especially if they're more like an intermediate to advanced online business owner, is I will just literally say like, hey, just so you know, I keep a pace in this program. And so if you have, if you still feel like you're like struggling with a lot of like mindset issues and like imposter syndrome and stuff like that, like, I'm probably not going to be the best coach for you because I already assume that you, you know, you're the shit. Like, you already have a level of expertise and competency that you're bringing so that we can just get down to business and it's going to be very like, action heavy, strategic, like very tactical, like moving pretty quickly. So I just want you to know that that's the kind of person I am. So I say that on the sales call so that if they decide to move forward and we decide to afford together, that like, if they're really struggling with not taking action, I can be like, hey, remember when we talked about this? And it's not to make them feel bad or shame them, but like, I'm like, okay, for whatever reason you're not taking action. Let's lower the barrier to entry and figure out why that is. I personally, and this, I have not always been this way, it's embarrassing to say, but I have, I take a lot of responsibility for myself, my clients. Now I hold myself to a super high standard and I hold my clients to a very high standard. And when I say that, I don't mean that I like get mad at them if they don't do something. I'm not like a judgmental coach. Like, you can come to me and be like, you know what, I haven't done anything in the last two weeks. I have a lot going on at home, Whatever. I'm like, cool. I will literally just be like, this is a puzzle. What's the smallest thing that you can do in the next two weeks? Let's start there. So I personally take a lot of responsibility. It's actually a huge pet peeve of mine when coaches are like, well, you know, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink. And I'm like, I think we have a lot more power than we think we do. So for my clients, as an example, if they're running up against a block, if they are running up against like, maybe they just, I don't know. Here's an example. So one of my clients was getting a lot of organic traffic from Google. She had this like SEO optimized website, ton of traffic to her site. And then all of a sudden Google changed her algorithm and all of a sudden her, her traffic change tanked. She was getting a lot of leads. She's probably getting 20 or 30 new email leads a day, like literally just for free off Google, which is amazing. But she was getting a lot of leads and people in the pipeline for one on one coaching and stuff. And then like over time, like the Google traffic just absolutely tanked. And she was like, I don't know. And so for me, I was like, amazing. We have a lot of other resources. Obviously we can move to paid traffic, we can move to all these other things. But I've been like, I was like, cool. Who is, who's doing traffic the best? Like, I'm literally like, I take it personally. Like it's my responsibility to go out and find and curate whatever tool, resource, contact book, course that she needs to make that work for her. Like to figure out what this is, what that's going to look like for her. I take that very seriously. I'm not like, okay, well, let's just, I don't know, keep moving forward in the business. Yes. But also I'm like, what tool, resource, puzzle piece do we need as a team to move forward? And that's the responsibility of the coach. The client doesn't have that insight. Right. They don't have that like high level perspective. They're just stressed about what's going on in their business. It's my job to keep a level head and to be the one with like the steady sort of like encouraging, like pace, like it's, it's my job to stay level headed and to help them continue to move forward despite that struggle. And so I take it very seriously. I don't know where the line specifically is. I think I do give the benefit of the doubt. I think a lot of people come into a coaching program with the best intentions, especially with fat loss or body change or something. They come in with the absolute best intentions. And then you and I both know that they're the most excited the day they start the program, right? That's like the day that they're the most pumped. It's my job to keep my clients moving forward. What do I need to do to keep them engaged in the process? Because I know if they stay engaged, they're going to be successful. Just stay engaged. Just expose yourself to the content. Just like listen to a little thing here like, you know, while you're on a leisure walk, while you're in the car, just listen to a podcast, listen to a. So whatever it is that like the lowest, lower barrier to entry, expose themselves to the content, don't disengage. Because I know if they stay in it that they're going to learn, they're going to get better and they get more successful. So I really try and break it down and just, I hold them to a high standard but not in like a really like judgmental sort of like, you know, all of us have had that like fat loss coach that like, that like scares you. You like don't want to get in the clone because you know they're going to like just reprimand you, right? We don't want like, that's not a great coaching. And I'm still learning to be honest. Like I, you know, I've learned a lot as a coach and for me I probably can always still do better.

Well, and I think that that's what honestly makes us great coaches is having that beginner's mindset, knowing that there's always more to learn. We never just arrive. We're always looking for the ways to be better so that we can deliver better results for our clients. But you know, I think that there are two things, right? Number one is that, and I know this happened to me before I found you, is that there are a lot of smoke and mirrors that happen in the marketing industry specifically, right? Is that people are toning like, oh, I had a, you know, my first 100k launch, but then they don't tell anybody that they spent $90,000 on their, you know, Paid advertising. There's just so, so much that we can see in the marketing industry, which is, can be, you know, really aggravating.

Well, you know what, it's really frustrating. It's just a huge disservice to beginners. Like to me that's just, I don't know, like. And you've been in this industry long enough now too that like, if you see some shit, you're like, I know, like, I understand this industry. When I see someone being like, I have a multiple seven figure, like, I mean we kind of laugh about Danny J. Who? And you know, Danny J. We have a podcast together. We kind of laugh about like literally everyone puts seven figures in their Instagram bio now. And I'm like, is this every, like everyone's just, just like handing out million dollar businesses right now, but they don't tell you that they're doing literally like a million in paid advertising, right? Or like they're just, or they made a million over the course of the last five years maybe, you know, like they're just leaving a lot to the imagination and that's a marketing tactic, right? That they're not being specific for a reason. So either they made a million dollars over the totality. Jill Fitz made 5 million in the last 10 years. But I'm not like going in and being like, I'm a seven figure business. I have not had one 365 day year where I've made a million dollars. So I will not put that on my bio, you know, so not talking about paid traffic, they're not talking about, you know, and some people are just like blatantly lying too, you know, and that's what is really frustrating sometimes about our industry. So as a consumer, especially if you're new, because you're gonna be much more susceptible to it at the beginning. Just always ask questions, just always. Because if someone is a really integrous business owner, they will not have any problem pulling back the curtain on their business with you. They won't have any problem answering questions, showing you testimonials, giving you names of people have gotten great results with them. Like, they'll have no issues with that. They won't get defensive, they'll just be like, cool, here's exactly what's going on. Just like so, you know, and be super transparent. And one of the examples of this is people who buy followers. We see this quite a bit and it's fine. Like I actually don't think it's necessarily like, I normally wouldn't like recommend it necessarily, but I really appreciate when people are honest about it. It. And you know, Jade Tita, who, you know is my ex husband, he has a business and he's very honest about the fact that he's bought followers. And he's like, not bought like thousand, but I'll buy like 5,000 here, like 4,000 here. And he does it more like an experiment to see, like, what happens. And so he's been really honest about that. I'm like, cool. Like, so long as you're doing the other good content. Like, to me, that's great. And just be honest about it instead of pretending or doing even a webinar on like how to have 100,000 followers when you know for a fact you bought those. Like, is that the strategy you're teaching? If it is, just be honest. So there's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the industry. I would say as a consumer, just be. Just question stuff, you know, and not to be negative, but I think it's. There's a lot and it can be really discouraging if you're just getting started.

Well, you taught me this one question and honestly, I've lived by it. And it's something that I always think about when I'm, you know, defining my message and determining, you know, what I stand for and what I don't.

But.

Well, the question is, whenever you are consuming any type of. Of content, you ask yourself, is that really true? And then the answer tends to be what? Where you're. Where you are in the land or in the line in the sand?

Yep.

So, you know, that's, you know, on the. Buying the followers. As somebody, you know, in the beginning, you and I had talked about this all the time. I went, you know, I went to a media person who told me that you need to get to 10,000 and go and do whatever it takes. Go get. Go hire this bot. Right. You just do not want. That's like going to a party in a room full of mannequins. Don't. It's just not worth it.

Well, it's like going to a business coach and if the first thing they say to you is buy followers, that's like going to personal trainer. And the first thing they say to you is by supplements. It's the exact same thing. Right. So it's like, cool. If you're gonna buy followers, then maybe it's just a condiment on top of everything else you're doing. You're building organic trust. You're like putting out great value, super consistent. Right. Like, if you're doing all the other things you want to, like, sprinkle the, like, paid traffic or the whatever on top of it, great. But that, to me, if you're buying followers, doing everything through a paid funnel, like you haven't put in the legwork, that's just like a duct tape business, you know, it's just gonna be very fragile versus what you've done and what I've done, which is like, really just build an awesome community of people who, like, really know me and want to buy all the shit, you know, or. And have followed for years. And so I think it's two different models. You know, I think there's ways to get rich quick if you just want to spend a shitload of money and, like, duct tape a business together. But are you ever gonna feel fulfilled? I know I wouldn't.

No. I wouldn't either. Especially, you know, brings us back to what we were talking about, is that this is the stuff. You have to do what you love because you have to wake up every morning doing what you love. Otherwise, how are you going to do it when you don't feel motivated?

Plenty of times you're not going to feel motivated.

Yeah. Yes. Me too. Right? I mean, there are times where, I mean, I'm a mom, so I'm like, oh, my kids. Sometimes I'll say to my husband, why? Why did we do this?

And that's so real. And so, I mean, that's the thing is, you know, talk about who you don't work with. It's not that I don't work with moms. I just don't, like, say I work with moms. You know, as a. As a person who is not a mom, you know, I could never understand the frustrations of moms, you know, so that's not going to be my ideal client avatar, because I don't really understand exactly. Like, I can, like, empathize, but I'll never be able to be in your shoes. And so I think it comes down to, you know, really just deciding what you're willing to do. But you have to your point, you have to love it. You know, this. You can't enter this space with, like, desperation and urgency to, like, get out of that job. You to have hate. If you are operating from urgency and desperation, you are going to burn out so fast. Because the first year, the work is just managing your expectations. That's it. The entire first year is just managing your own expectations. That's the hardest part about the beginning, is just constantly having to reframe shit. Reframe it, reframe it, reframe it. And then over time you start really seeing the fruits of your labor. But it does take some time. So if you can't have those conversations with yourself and if you can't really like find the like love and passion and purpose inside, you're going to quit so fast because it's just, it's like I said, the beginning, it is a little bit thankless.

Yeah, for sure. Well, Jill, I want to be really mindful of your time. This has been an incredible episode. Thank you so much for joining me. So for my listeners that want to learn more from you and that they want to hang out with you, where shall I send them?

Awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. Always so good to hang with you. Probably just Instagram is probably the easiest way. So just jillfit on Instagram and then also head to jillfit.com which is my website. And if you want to get latest and greatest updates on everything, go ahead and get on my email list anywhere on the website, just enter your email and you will get all the, the goodies. So yeah, but would love, if you guys listen to this, would love to get a DM from you. Just chat, let me know where you're at with stuff like what you need help with. If I can support you in any way, I would love it.

Now you also have an FBA program that's coming out, right?

I do. So I'm doing a right now and I think you guys are going to get this on. I think he's going to publish on the third. So yeah, we're going to be finishing up a free course called Fresh Formula. And if any of this resonated with you, the Fresh Formula is actually ironically a 14 day free course where I'm actually doing everything I would do if I started from scratch today. So if I had no followers, no audience, no email subscribers, nothing like that, what I would do if I was starting from scratch. You want to jump in on that? It's at my profile. JillFit on Instagram. It's called the Fresh Formula or just shoot me a DM and I can give you the information for that so you can get those recordings. And then I'm launching a beginner to business course called FBA or Fitness Business Accelerator for people who are very beginner to Internet business. So you don't have to have a website, you don't have to have an email list, you don't have to have any lead magnet freebie, anything like that. Just a passion to help people and to want to take your in person services online. So if you have any questions about that again feel free to shoot me a DM and we can chat there about what you might need.

So cool. And we are going to for sure link all that up. Plus Jill, she did mention that she is the co host of the Best Life podcast which we'll also link link up in the show notes. So thanks so much Jill.

You're the best. Appreciate it. Bye guys. Talk to you soon.

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