Building Rapport in Your Gym and Business Through Validation with Lucy Hendricks

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 208. Today I am bringing back guest Lucy Hendricks to talk all about how we can build rapport and community in your gym and business, whether it's online or in person through validation. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance and movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up coach? Thank you so much for joining me in another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson. And honestly, in full transparency, today is probably the first day in over, over a month where I thought I was never going to feel healthy again. I am starting to turn a corner and I am feeling so much better as I just go continue to move through the as I continue to move through recovering through Covid I, to be honest, I did not know I was going to get hit so hard and I'm super grateful for all the lessons that I'm learning but I'll definitely share those at another time since we are still not out of, we're not completely out of the woods yet. So I'm very happy. I'm grateful that you are here listening to another really powerful episode really about invisible skills. Now I recognize that we have been doing an accidental series. If you've been hanging out with me, you know that I don't really believe in accidental. I know that there's always, there's always something and a reason to be going through these, these experiences and conversations. And I had the opportunity to bring back guest Lucy Hendricks which if you haven't heard her first episode and how she, she built a gym after this one. Definitely check the show notes because we will link up her first episode but she's bringing back a very powerful conversation about how she has built community and rapport with her clients and how she has validated them and tapped into empathy and with empathy with boundaries to really expedite their clients results. And she talks about how you can take these invisible components and create KPIs and how to be okay with doing things that is unlike everybody else. And I just think it's a very powerful episode to start talking about how we can validate our clients experience, empathize with them safely in order to help them reach their goals. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and roll that interview. Lucy, welcome back to the show. I'm super pumped. Right before we hit record, I shared with you that you are officially the first repeat guest, which is so exciting. I'm super happy to have you. How are you?

I am doing great. Thank you for having me.

This is going to be such a good conversation. I'm so excited. I think I. I didn't even realize it, and I don't. I don't believe in accidents, for the record. But we've been doing this series and bringing on guests that are talking about really powerful and underappreciated skills when it comes to building rapport, creating safe environments in our space, really connecting with our clients so that they can experience the ripple effects of being connected in community. And I think so many people really undervalue this skill. So we've been doing a lot of episodes like this, and I can't wait to bring and to share with the people here, the in this community about how we can really create that environment for our in our spaces, whether it's online and in the gym. And you came to me and said, let's talk about, you know, parenting and the experience of validating our clients. So I'd love for you to just go ahead, dive in, share with us a little bit of the context of, like, what you've been seeing in your den.

Yeah, this was meant to be then. That's awesome, right?

Yeah.

I always talk about the diverse skill sets that it takes to be a really good coach, because when people first get into the industry, they get really attached to the exercise side of things. What exercise to do, how to coach exercises, how to progress that. But then there's all these other skill sets that go into being able to work with humans. So the skill that I really wanted to talk about today was the skill of validation. And how I got into that was a few years ago, feels like last year because it's all together. 2020, 21, beginning of 2020.

It's blurring. It's blurring together. It really does. Blurring.

2020. I realized that the root of a lot of my issues, not just in coaching and in business and in a relationship with my business partner, just the root of all my issues was the lack of communication skills. And I had a really good mentor to look up to. And I think he's been on this podcast before, Michael Keeler. So he is the master of communication. So I had him to look up to. I took his courses. I read a lot of the resources that he shared and I read probably three or four books on communication and relationships, took a course on it. And one big skill that stood out in all of these things that I learned from was the skill of validating someone's experience. And a lot of people see that as only validating someone when they're upset or when a partner hurts the other partner's feelings. And they have to be validated. But one of those things too is being able to validate someone's experience, whether it's positive or negative. And I didn't realize how quick we are and conditioned we are to put a positive spin on things. For example, if you told me I like right now, you just told me that you're recovering from COVID and you develop pneumonia, I could have said, well at least you didn't end up at the hospital because we're so conditioned to be like what's the positive in this? Well, at least you didn't break your ankle, you just rolled, just sprained it. And noticing that in myself, within my friends, my loved ones, my clients, of how many times I was so fast that just, just putting a positive spin and their negative experiences, but then also not realizing that I wasn't valid or not realizing that I wasn't validating their positive experiences. Something that they really cared about, like their kid performing really well at in the play, just being able to validate what they're going through. And throughout the last what feels like a year, but two and a half years, I've gotten really good at validating our clients experience. And one of those things is, is parenthood and validating the experience of just being a parent. And for context, I am not a parent. I don't have kids. I live a very easy life and I'm choosing not to have kids. But my business partner who is my ex boyfriend and we're really close, he now has two kids. So I've really been able to see the difference in lifestyles or the difference in just the time that you have to do things and letting he's let, he lets me talk about it. So I bring it up in front of clients and just letting them being able to vent about how hard it is to being parent and being able to validate that experience has been so powerful in our gym because if I let one person say something, I'll say something like, yeah, like Dave just doesn't have any time anymore. It's crazy how he, as soon as he gets home, he gets handed a baby and then he's on dad mode. It's just no time to do other things like he used to. And then the client will just say, oh my gosh, you have no idea. It is so hard. It's the hardest thing. And no one ever tells you or prepares you for this. And then the next client, oh my gosh, yes. And just letting them vent and validating that experience of how hard it is to be a parent, whether they're stay at home moms or they have a full time job, like, it's just as hard and it's been really cool.

Oh my gosh, you have so you have brought up so many things that I really want to go and talk about. And so I'm going to list them out and then we can, we can take the conversation in whatever direction you want because there's a couple of things that you talked about which I think is so, so, so, so important. Number one, you talked about validating both the negative experience as well as the positive, which is so important to rewire our subconscious to recognize the wins, especially for high achievers. And I'm willing to bet if you were listening to this podcast, you are a high, high achiever. And it's so easy for us. Who's one of my mentors, he posted on this, he posted in one of his slides all these different math equations. 2 + 2 is 4, 4 + 4 is 8, 6 + 6 is 12. And then he did like 3 + 5 is 10. What do you notice? And our brains are conditioned to zero in on the one myth incorrect sentence and completely ignore the four right ones or the whatever amount of right ones that were there. We're just as high achievers, we are just so focused based on our cond and neural pathways in our brain to just find the problem. So we're always chasing the problem. And I just think for me, at least as a high achiever, when I became a parent and a coach, it really exacerbated the experience for me because now I'm responsible not just for my coaching experience, client relationships, but now I'm responsible for raising a resilient human being that's going to contribute to our world. And it's the only job you don't go to school for and the only job that no one ever prepares you for. And so many people, at least for me, love to hate it. And I'll say for a woman's perspective, and this could be my bias, but there's different pressures on us to both be a hundred percent contributing to our society and our Community and to be the head of the household. Yeah, right.

That's my bias from observing as well.

They.

And it's. People get me when I. When I talk about this, it's like, well, you're stereotyping. I'm like, well, the stereotypes are there for a reason. And I. I do notice that it does get put a lot on them. I. And I. I jokingly bring up what happened in Thanksgiving. We have the first baby in the family in the Hendrix family. So no one has chosen to have kids until now. And we're all in our 30s. But my uncle is holding the baby because he's the granddad, and he looks at his wife and he goes, it's not too late. And every woman that I've told that story to, they've said, he probably didn't raise them fully. He was probably at work, which is so true. They get a very different experience and different. Like you said, you put that pressure on yourselves or society does.

I'll also say that, you know, that's not to negate, you know, the experience of dads. I mean, dads have lots of things, too. Like, as a working mom myself, you know, my husband does have to share in the responsibilities of parenting in terms of going to the grocery store, taking the kids out. Like, when I was sick with COVID I could not get out of bed for 10 days. And he had to do it all and navigate his job and his parent life. And. And it was hard, and it was just very interesting. Right? People would, you know, people will treat it as if dad's the babysitter, but he's not the babysitter. He's a parent. And I don't understand, you know, why school is constantly, you know, they'll call me first, even though he's listed as number one parent, call dad. And they always call mom, you know, because I'm often in calls. I'm home and I'm in. But I'm in calls, and I can't pay. I don't pick up. So dad picks up because he can on in his job. So I'm like, call him first. He'll text me. You know, so it's a very interesting dynamic. And then the other thing you brought up, which I. Which I think is really powerful is. Is as coaches and as business owners, as we start to learn this personal development. I'm going to use a very powerful word. I'm choosing it with caution. But we tend to gaslight ourselves where we start to like, oh, we start to get into what I call Relentless positivity. Like, oh, no, no, I need to. You know, there are people starving in Africa, and we start to invalidate ourselves and invalidate our own experience. And I see this happen a lot to parents because we are used to putting our everyone first. So we start to invalidate our own experience with relentless positivity as we start to learn the impact of. Of, you know, feel, you know, of negative emotions, essentially. And then we ended up just bottling it and then blowing up, and it ends up just. It's like drinking poison if we don't process it and validate it.

Yeah, I've seen that a lot with clients. I had one client. I don't work with her anymore, but she had multiple kids. And she said to me, because she had all these health issues that were not getting addressed because of the schedule with her kids, because they all played different sports. So she basically spent her time driving kids around. And because of that, she did not take care of herself because she was seeing that her kids needed her. And what she told me was, there are seasons for things, and right now, that season is not about me, and it's not about me taking care of myself, because the season is for my kids. Because if I don't do this for my kids, then they won't get to where they need to be and they won't get what they need. Which to me, as someone who didn't have kids and someone who's a coach who sees someone's health as it should be, as someone's number one priority, I find that coaches struggle understanding that, especially ones that are young, the ones that don't have kids, because back in the day, I remember thinking, that's stupid. You're gonna kill yourself, like, and then you won't be there for your kids. But as I've gotten older and the more people I've worked with and the more I've exposed myself, I now do have this compassion towards someone's mentality that has that mentality that's so good.

And something else I want to. Just. Last thing I want to bring up that you said that I think is important to acknowledge, because I hear this from coaches all the time, and I hear it in lots of different ways, but sometimes we think we can't help people if we're not the avatar, which is one of the biggest mistakes that I think we can get into in coaching. Just because you're not a parent doesn't mean you can't help parents. Just because you've never been shredded to the. You know, to like body composition or, you know, bodybuilding. Composition doesn't mean you can't help people. Just because you, you, you know, never been a dancer doesn't mean you can't help dancers. I think we get lost in this, this, this nuanced. It's a nuanced conversation of, of, you know, can I help someone if it's never happened to me? But I just think of it in terms of, like, look at actors, right? Actors don't get killed often, but they're always playing like they've got killed. Look at, look at, like Steven Spielberg was an incredible director, is an incredible director and has never been the front of the camera. You've got experiences of, of people who, who've never been a parent. But doesn't mean they can't hold space or help parent because they are an, an expert in what it is that they are an expert in.

Right?

And as for me, sometimes I want to be around adults that don't have kids and don't want to talk about kids. I'm done. And I think that that's okay. So as someone, you know, I'd love for you to share with us and go deeper a little bit on, you know, what it's been like for you and how you've helped and create, created this environment for parents. Not being a parent.

Someone asked me that the other day, or not necessarily this question, but how did I create a culture where you can come as you are and be really honest with me? Honest that you just spent the last five days drinking and not taking care of yourself, but here you are. And I've been thinking about that a lot. And I think part of it, of being able to have these conversations, is me being transparent about my own struggles. And this is where a lot of coaches will hear me say these things, but then think, well, you don't want to be so negative and bring the session down with your issues. So I'm very, like, strategic about it. And I talk about my problems in the past setting and through emails and through texts and through workshops. So I've talked about my mental health issues. I've talked about me being suicidal. I've talked about me being so fatigued and not being able to work out and how I used to compare myself to trainers online because they work out no matter what. They could have the flu and there they are, still punching the clock. And so I mentioned all of these things through emails, through workshops, through conversation. And I don't try to bring the energy down on the session, but I do find ways to be open about that stuff. And so I think that's a reason why some people seem to be open about what they're struggling with. And talking about my business partner, because my business partner, it's no secret that life is like really crushing him right now. He has a two year old, a newborn, two parents that are not doing well, they don't have help with child care, and everyone's getting sick. I mean, his toddler now has been sick three times. And he's a business owner and I expect him to be in the gym. You can't just call in like an employee. So it's no secret to our clients that he's going through it. So we talk about it in a way where we normalize the struggle of life. And then me just bringing up a topic in front of everybody and then people being okay with talking about it. Like two days ago we were talking about eating protein and eating enough protein, and then someone else mentioned something about being depressed and not having an appetite. So then I said, actually, in July, July, August, September, I went through a little bit of a depressive flare up after not being depressed for two years. It was actually very interesting. But this time around, the difference with me was that I made myself hit my protein and the fatigue that usually comes with my depression did not come. So I was still able to train. And I was reflecting back two years ago, I just wouldn't eat. So no wonder I was super tired. And I'm like saying all this in front of the client who mentioned depression and right in front of another client who struggles with depression. And she was like, wow, that makes so much sense. I should keep that in mind. So then the other client talked about when they were depressed. So just being able to have these conversations on the training floor and being able to manage it without bringing the mood down, I think is an art. So I think with practice, you're. You're able to have these type of conversations during the sessions.

I think you're bringing something up that's really powerful, is that this is an art. And sometimes it can be hard to process it in terms of, you know, step one, validate, step two, listen. Right? But I would love for you, in an effort, you know, to. Because I know it's a nuance in an effort to help someone who might be new to creating this type of environment. What are some of the ways that you would at least begin to try and start creating this type of an environment?

So I would say step one would be a mindset change. So the skill, validation I think is more of a mindset than it is, like, follow these things and say these things. Because if you really don't try to see things from people's perspective and put yourself in their shoes, it's not going to sound genuine. Like if you can say, well, oh yeah, that makes sense, or it told, I would be upset too. But if you're not actually trying to put yourself in their shoes and trying to come from a place of understanding, I think you will not be able to build that culture that we've created, our gym. So step one would be having the mindset of seeing a different perspective and being able to put yourself in their shoes. And when they do something that you don't agree with or that you wouldn't do, really coming from a place of curiosity instead of judgment. And that's another mindset of really being curious of why they would do that versus judging them really can help you understand where they're coming from. And so when you do validate them, when you do ask them questions, it now comes from this place of you being really curious of their situation, which makes them feel heard and it makes them feel understood. Because that's really all people want is they want you to understand that they didn't not follow the diet or they didn't follow through with their 10,000 steps, not because they were lazy or they didn't want to, but because of these other things going on. So being able to understand them and being curious about their, their problems and their just life situation.

Because I'll just share the reason why I ask it, because I'll share as I've, you know, I think also part of it, I would add, is, you know, and you mentioned it and is, is that when you share vulnerably in a powerful place. Right. So you're sharing from. Here's my lessons. Here's what I've learned not to like, let's process and wallow together, but more like let's let me just, you know, open up. I think that, that I. That can also help because what I have noticed from building my own communities and then being in other communities is that, that there are some people that are naturally gifted in really creating powerful spaces. And, and I'll say this too, that it is my perception that it's natural. I'm certain that they've worked on this skill.

Okay.

But it feels when you're in it, like it's just so natural and easy and people really open up and there's big breakthroughs. And then for me, I have Also noticed that I struggle to. To replicate that experience. And I think for me personally, it's mostly just because I'm so linear in my thinking, and it's much easier for me to tap into masculine energy than it is to tap in feminine into that experience of vulnerability and open it up. And it's my. It's me, you know, hi, it's me and Balancy. No, I'm just kidding. But I know that as the leader, I can facilitate that experience. And I'm working on it. I'm working on it as we go into 2023 because it can be very challenging. Which is why I asked, because if you're anything like me, you might feel the same way. Where you go into these spaces and know that they're just so vibrant and connected and wanting to create that yourself. That's why I asked.

Okay, now I have a little bit more to say. I was very well. I mean, I think I still am. I will. Will flow between masculine and feminine. But it maybe was working on that feminine side that I had never worked on before, and I realized I was very dominant. I was a great leader and presenter, but when it came to nurturing, that was not my thing. And that came with me realizing I was bad at communicating and going into all these books and courses on communication really is what made that big shift. So it's. I would say step one would be working on communication and working on being able to work on these diverse skill sets that make you a better communicator through validating, through coming from a place of curiosity by being able to put yourself in people's shoes and thinking of when you're talking to them, allowing yourself to not have an agenda and not have something that you like, the road that you want the clients to go on, like, these are the steps you want them to do. But get rid of that agenda and have them come up with their own journey, having them come up with their own answers and having them come up with their own solutions to their problems. And that comes back to Michael Keillor's course Coaching Conversations. It's making sure that you are the coach. You're not the one. You're not a consultant telling that person what to do, because those two things are very different. Coaches help the client guide themselves where they need to be, and then consultants can easily tell you what to do. Most coaches should have the coaching hat on more often than the consultant hat on. And I think a lot of coaches sit here a lot more telling them, oh, you need to do this. You need to do that. This is what you should do versus helping that person guide themselves there.

This is so powerful. And honestly, I'll share that this is one of the biggest and most painful lessons I had to learn. Because as a coach, the consulting side of you, I won't speak for you, but for me it was the consulting side of me wanted to expedite and remove pain that I had to go through in order to learn the lesson. So it was coming from a good place. It was coming from the like, I know this works, you need to do it this way. But I stopped listening. And it was interesting because when I had my kids, this was when I learned this nuance because I realized that I was willing to let my children learn their lesson so that they could build their own resilience and make decisions themselves. But I wasn't doing it for my client and I had to look at that and I realized, oh, this is an area of opportunity for me. My children have been the biggest lessons in my life. Everything I learned through parenting them has transcended into my life. And business is very similar, you know, so it's, it's a powerful, it's a powerful lesson. I'll say. I do have this one question I want to ask you about boundaries though, and about how do you navigate the nuanced difference? I think it's nuanced. I think it's a paradox because it's both at the same time. But how do you navigate the difference between holding space for something that's real, but then also moving someone outside of their comfort zone so that they actually make change? Because our brain is tricky and wants to keep us safe and anytime we're doing something different, it's gonna, it's going to try and protect you. So how do you navigate what needs to have grace and then what has to be and when that masculine energy can come in and actually serve because it's the push that you need. So how do you navigate flexible discipline?

Essentially, I don't get put in that situation a lot. I don't do one on one coaching. And that's something else that I had to accept as a gym owner and personal trainer is that if someone needs that someone holding space, but now I need to push you and come up with actionable goals. That's a one on one situation and our clients are not paying extra for that. I don't have time for it. I've referred people out many, many times and the amount of times that people have actually hired a nutrition coach, hired the life coach, and hired the extra help that I think they need has been pretty slim. And I think that's unrealistic expectation that. I see a lot online. I see a lot of nutrition coaches and health coaches, like, oh, personal trainers, you need to be referring your people out to coaches, or if someone has nutrition issues, just refer them out. And as someone who's been working with people for over a decade, that's hard. It's hard to get people to that position. And so as a trainer, I've realized and accepted that that is not my role. I am on the training floor and as a gym owner, I can influence people by the masses. So a lot of articles, podcast emails, and then we talk about the emails in the, on the training floor. So to me it seems like the, the, the progress with my clients is very slow. It's like one of my clients at 8am I sent an email out last week about protein. And I don't know if you answered, but I asked my friends on Instagram, how many grams of protein do you eat a day? Because I've been trying to get people to eat more protein for the last year and half my clients have like almost doubled their protein, which is great, but it took a while to get there. Some people have not gotten there and I know they need it. So they need that one on one attention with a coach, pushing them, getting them out of their comfort zone, making them realize that, oh, I just can't eat that much is actually a limiting belief that they have. So I sent an email out last week and I asked the client how he was recovering or something. I asked him something and he turned around, he goes, I'm eating more protein. Okay, I just started. Okay, I got it. Which I know, like that's not the, the correct approach, but it's the only approach I have as a gym owner when someone doesn't see me one on one. So I don't really have a lot of answers to that question. But if I was in that coaching hat, it would be challenging them, challenge, challenging their beliefs. So if my client's saying, I just, I just can't eat that much protein, I just can't do it. Even though they keep getting injured, they're losing weight and they're not wanting to lose weight, they're losing muscle and they're not wanting to lose muscle. So if they were sitting with me one on one, I would say, like, why do you think that is? What do you think will happen if you eat more protein? Because that's when you start to dig into the reasons why it might not be because this person thinks that or just is being stubborn and doesn't want to eat more. If we start peeling back the layers of why she doesn't want to, what do you think will happen? If you eat more protein, then that's when you start to realize there's more to it. Maybe it's. Well, my. My uncle, who's a doctor, said that protein causes cancer. And so anytime I eat more meat in my head, I'm starting to think that maybe I'm going to contribute to that. And these are the type of conversations that are really hard to do in a training setting where I have four people at once. So to answer. To not answer your question, it's not a position I'm in a lot of. So it's just small little challenges through emails, through messaging, through podcasts, through workshops.

But, I mean, you did answer it. You. You. You answered it in terms of helping people identify that this is a belief that's not serving them. Because I think most people. And that if you're not. If you're not at where you want to be, in my opinion, it means that you are operating and making decisions from mistakes and misconceptions that are. Might not even necessarily your fault.

Right.

We are indoctrinated. We learn things, we get evidence, and then make meanings out of it. We're human beings. That's what we're. What we're designed to do. But people aren't walking around going, oh, I have that limiting belief right now, and that's okay. I'm okay with it. Right. They're just making decisions based on their current skill level. And I think as coaches and facilitators and leaders and industry leaders, this is an opportunity for us to put out the messaging to help them self identify and shift those perspectives, if nothing else, to at least try and see something in a new way, which is powerful, I think.

Yeah. And it comes back to making sure that you, as a coach, you're coming from a place of curiosity versus judgment. Like, go back to the protein. Like, what do you think will happen if you eat more protein? Well, maybe this person thinks, like, if I start eating more protein, like, I'm going to start gaining weight, and I'm terrified of that. So really trying to be curious of why they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

That's so true and so good. And I think that one of the things that I'm. I'm curious to know just from your perspective is I think there's also a component of empathy that's required to, to help validate your client's experience, especially if maybe you've never experienced that same, you know, trouble before. So for you, did you find that it was easy for you to access empathy? How did you work on that skill?

Too easy. So I had to work on stepping back. I considered myself an empath back in the day, so I would feel people's feelings. I almost every night I would cry about some client because I work with difficult cases. I work with a lot of chronic pain clients who are still in a lot of pain and had gone everywhere, multiple surgeries, all the physical therapists in town, and they were still struggling. So I would take that home and I would cry about it a lot. So I almost felt too much. So I learned that the difference between empathy and compassion, Keeler will say, you know, compassion is being like on top of the whole and putting a ladder down and helping the person come up. Empathy is putting yourself in the hole with them. And I think that's what I was doing is I was almost putting myself in their shoes a little too much and really feeling their pain. But if you're on the other side where you don't feel a lot of empathy, I think it's an important mindset to really practice. And that could be like one thing that I, one thing that I struggled with was praise and finding things to be proud of of people. So something that I practice in my journal was writing people's name. And when I would meditate in the morning, if, let's say I. I wrote my business partner's name because back in the day we would fight a lot. So if his name was up there, I would have to sit there and find things that I would appreciate about him or that I admire about him. So then I would like practice going there with my mind. So you could practice doing that with people writing someone's name and really trying to put yourself in their shoes and feel what they're feeling just so you can, can build a little more empathy. I can see that working.

That's good. That's, you know, that's good. I think it's hard for people sometimes to put themselves in other people's shoes, especially if they haven't experienced it. Right. And I also think that I'm also curious from your perspective, how do you navigate this in a group session? Because I know you're not doing one on one or how would you recommend someone navigate, you know, in their one on one sessions or their group sessions? How do you hold space for both the work and. And the conversation.

Work as in, like the work and the training workout? Yes, yes, because you're right.

They're both work. It's just different.

It's gonna go back to the model that we've created. So I've talked. This is what I used to teach when. Before I retired from teaching the industry about how to coach. So my model is very specific. So we see training as a skill. And the way my model was created was when I was young, I got really into biomechanics, and I thought that things had to be a certain way. Every time you're on Quadruped, it has to be this way. Every squat needs to look this way. Every push up needs to look this way. And I took it a little too far. And when I realized that I had taken it too far and that could be a negative thing, I didn't want to let go of the positive things. And the positive things were because I was very particular in how things are done. My clients were very independent. So I only have to show someone something once. And I am positive that if I walk away, they're going to do it the way I want them to do it. Because I had these standards. So I found a way to keep my standards. But then the language around why I wanted to do things a certain way changed. So when I'm taking someone through, like, this is how I want you to do all these exercises. I let them know. And it's not because it's right or wrong. It's just in order for you to get strong, things need to be consistent. And strength training is a skill. So like any skill, you're gonna suck at it at first and learn how to do it a certain way. But if you don't do it this way, it doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just how we do it. And if you want to progress, things need to be consistent. And this is the way we picked. So because we have things or how things are done in a particular way, my clients are very independent, so they don't need to be babysat. So I'm able to have these conversations while having four people on the training floor. And because they don't need that much help, I'm able to have these conversations and not get in the way of their training. And it just happens to be where if a client is really into their workout and they don't want to be part of the conversation, they totally just tune people out. Like, the people next to them while they're sitting there doing their work, or you're doing both while you're resting, you're having these conversations in between your sets and reps. But it really does come down to, because my clients are so independent, we're able to have these types of conversations because I'm not having there to be. Be coaching them step by step, unless there's a new person. And if there's a new person, there's definitely less conversations like that. But once they get past the beginner stages, I'm just facilitating the workout. I'm setting things up, having conversations. I'm always just, like, just hanging out with people. Which is why I love our coaching model because it lets us talk to people and also get updates from people. Like, I can go up to you and be like, hey, Beverly, how was your weekend? And we can have a minute conversation while my other people are training. Just because people don't need that much attention.

So powerful. I. I'm also curious, you know, how do you measure performance? So this is good. This is my linear left side of my brain, because a lot of this stuff, sometimes I will call this the invisible components. And so sometimes with the invisible component, they're intangible, so it's hard to really identify. You know, is this. Is this working? And I'm putting. Working in. In quotations. So how do you navigate measuring impact and if it's actually moving the dial and. And bringing progress, or do you even.

Measure it and like, progress in my. In my business or in the client's.

Life or, you know, however, use it however you would determine, like, is it working in terms of, like, continuing to include it in your relationships.

So, okay, I would say retention would be one thing. Our retention is really high. We keep people forever. Once you start, you don't leave. And if you do leave, you probably come back. We just had a client come back after three years. He built an entire beautiful gym in his basement. And when I asked him what he was doing, he goes, I built it, put all the equipment, squat, bench, everything. But I'm just here because this is what worked. So I'm back. So our retention is higher than a lot of other gyms that I've talked to. The strength that my clients are able to get and the progress that they're able to get is pretty significant compared to other ways of strength training, especially locally. Our testimonials are pretty impressive, I would say. And that's. That's what gets people in the door. We have, for the first time this year, we now have random Google People finding us. It's been, we've grown our whole entire gym from just referrals because we couldn't afford marketing back in the day. But we just, we can only handle so many people. So we haven't felt the need to market because we get enough leads every single week. But this year we started getting people finding us of gym near me, which was unheard of in the past. And I'm not sure what really changed, but everybody comes in and they tell me they come in because of the reviews that they read because the reviews that we have are different than any other gym. And that to me is a sign of this is working because we're, we're really setting ourselves apart. We're breaking statistics because most people join gyms and then they fall. Yeah. And now I'm thinking, or we're not thinking, we're getting the in body machine the most updated.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So that, that's going to be one way of progress because we're really into getting people to eat protein and making sure that people don't lose skeletal muscle. So that's. We've never done measurements, we've never done weight. And I've always felt in my head like I, I'm failing as a trainer because I'm not doing these things that everybody else is doing. But I also keep people forever and I keep them strength training for a really long time. And to me that's huge. So I stopped like really comparing myself to how other people did personal training.

I think that's so powerful. Like that right there is such a huge takeaway, is that people think, you know, it's just the law of polarity. You can't have one without the other. Because we're all in the Internet space and inundated with information that is unregulated. So let's just not get that twisted. And we're like, oh, no, I'm not doing, you know, I'm not doing all those measurement, which means. And then we make meanings about whatever that, you know, whatever that means. Oh, that means that my clients aren't getting results. I'm not getting, I'm not not doing, doing it right. And I'm putting that in quotes because I know that very intimately, especially for my high achievers. We're always looking for the right, best way to do something. And I just think that it's important that we put in place KPIs Key performance indicators in our own business in an aligned strategy so that we can assess and know, okay, our process is different. New Unique, but it's still, it's still moving the dial. That story you posted on your Instagram, I thought was so powerful about the accumulated debt and now you've all gotten it gone. I mean, those are tangible things. And I think that I, I just personally think and I, I'm saying this is my opinion, not a principle. So I always clarify the difference, but this is my opinion is that I think we just take for granted the invisible components that contribute to it and we just think it doesn't matter when really it's everything.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember having a conversation with my business partner and it's like we have to be tracking because if you don't track you, you're, you're just not doing it right. But then just the thought of, of getting my clients measurements and weight when I wasn't doing any life coaching, it's like I'm lucky if they just make it into the gym twice a week.

Amen. Amen.

How am I going to get them to do all these other stuff? And then some people, they don't want to do the work to actually see the, the skill go down. They're just here to strength train. And that's when we decided like what we do, like our progress is strength. We get people stronger. We go from people who can only do one exercise without pain. Deadlifting. 150 pounds. Like that's very impressive. And we might not have it in paper, but that's, that's a huge sign of progress.

Huge sign. I think it's so huge. So Lucy, you're so smart, so incredible. I love the work that you are doing for your community, for people and for coaches. Sharing your, and being so transparent about your process, I think has been, is, is definitely raising the bar for, for our industry. So thank you so much for pouring into it. So I want to be mindful of your time. So if you could. This will be my last questions. You mentioned some of your favorite communication books. Would you mind sharing with us some of your favorite resources that you've used and read to develop the communication skill and what you would tell yourself if you were starting over. What lesson would you give to yourself right at the beginning to, to accelerate the process?

Yeah. So coaching conversations by Michael Keeler. He usually hosts it through Zoom. Awesome seminar. I think all personal trainers need to take it and it's very practical and you get to practice and role play a lot. And that's actually one thing that I would say to younger Lucy is role play. I always thought it was dumb to Practice. But it really. That's where. That's where the practice comes in. Because you need to get those reps in. Because at first, communicating differently will make you feel like you're a robot. And I remember practicing the things that now just come naturally or even just practicing coming from a place of curiosity that now comes naturally. Not always, but it does come naturally. When I hear an opposing view and I'm like, well, I wonder why they would say that versus, like, being so turned off by the opposing view. I'm like, well, I don't agree with that. And now things do seem to come a little naturally, but it did come after a lot of role playing. So coaching conversations. Then the book called Love Skills. That's a romantic relationship book. But being. Taking the romantic side of things. Like all the skills that you need to be in a romantic relationship with someone are the same skills that you need to be in a relationship with your clients because you are in the relationship with them. I've had clients for 10 years now. I see them more than my friends and my loved ones and my family. So being able to have those skills is very important and it's very practical. It takes you through all of these questionnaires. It gives you a lot of practical things to practice with your partner or by yourself. So 100 recommend love skills. I don't know who wrote it. So you'll. You'll have to put that in the link or something. And then the book called I hear you. I'm really bad with names. The. The author, I think it starts with Michael, but I read his book I hear you, and it's all about validation. And then I took his course online on relationships as well. So I'll send you the link to all of those. And so that those would be my main four things.

I love that. That's so amazing. Okay, so we'll definitely link that up in the show notes. We're also going to link up. We'll also link up your first episode so that if you're new to the show and you hadn't heard Lucy's first episode, she talks about what it was like for her process of building a gym and starting a gym. We'll link that up as well. And also if they want to connect and go deeper with you, what are some of the best places that I can send them?

My. My Instagram, it's Lucy Underscore Hendricks. My website that I use to educate coaches has been dead for about two years. I decided. Two and a half years. I decided to just completely focus on my gym, which was probably the best decision ever.

So.

So I would suggest going to enhancinglifegym.com and just seeing how I communicate with my clients. I have a blog there too, and a newsletter that I'll update so you can see the language that I use to communicate with my clients or the topics that I use to communicate with my clients. Because a lot of coaches struggle with newsletters and struggle emailing clients because they don't know what to talk about. So if you need need ideas, you can find that on that website.

I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, Lucy, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

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