Community Building Inside A New Gym With Matt Ferrara

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 162. Today I'm sitting down with Matt Ferrara and we're talking all about how to build community inside of a new gym. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Thank you so much for joining me in another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson, and if this is your first time hanging out with me today, thank you so much for pushing play. I'm super, super pumped to chat with the co owner of Ascent Training. So I sat down with Matt today and we chatted all about what it was like to open up a brand new facility in New Hampshire right in the middle of the pandemic. Some of the struggles, some of the most important components that has helped him really move through building a business during such a challenging time, how he's been able to facilitate a network and community of people excited to work out in his area. Inside of the episode, Matt shares that he's been a coach for at least 10 years and how he got his start started in Boston, moved to New Hampshire with his fiance Anna, who unfortunately couldn't make it to the recording. But he gave us a lot of insight about what they've done together, how they've built this incredible business and their plans for the future. So without further ado, let's go ahead and rol interview. What's up, Matt? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you doing?

Good, how are you? Thanks so much for having me.

I'm doing great. I'm super pumped for today. It's going to be a great, fun conversation. So for those of us who have not had the pleasure of working with you or know who you are, I'd love for you to share a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Matt Ferrara and I'm actually the co owner of Ascent Training and Performance. And I feel terrible because my fiance and co owner should be standing right here next to me, but she's actually on the coaching floor right now, which is like I was telling Beverly before, the life we live now, but we own a training gym in Concord, New Hampshire. And we really market towards people who aren't typically comfortable in a traditional gym setting. And that's really who walks mostly through our doors.

Okay, amazing. I love it. So when did you open the facility?

Almost coming up on a year now. And so we actually share space with a martial arts training center, which is awesome. Yeah, it's really cool. So they have the front end of the facility and we have a backspace. So the training center has always been there and the gym itself was there before. And then we stepped into ownership about a year ago.

Amazing. So that was, you know, right in the height or not in the height, but this was in the process of, you know, the pandemic. Things are shutting down. Things aren't the way that it used to be. So how did you now navigate those waters and what caused you to actually open up during that time?

Yeah, you know what, looking back, we know, like it was really the right decision for us because it wasn't, it wasn't a good decision at the time. And like, as with a lot of things. Right. So rationally and on paper, no, it was a terrible time to open, especially an in person business. And we were actually primarily online doing remote coaching before that, but just a lot of circumstantial stuff. We kind of got booted out of a facility and then we were like, you know what? There's just no one serving this market in these people. So we decided to open the gym in September and it kind of went from there. So we've really been taking it in stride. It was never, it was never the long term plan, but here we are.

Okay. Amazing. So how did you get into training?

We've been training for a while. So me and Anna, I think between the two of us, have been training for over 10 years. We started in Boston, actually. We went to school at Bridgewater. Yep. That's where we met. So we started coaching and training in Boston, which we, we still have like a strong affinity for. Boston has so many, so many great coaches.

So many great coaches. That's why I laughed. I was like, I feel like Boston is the center of strike conditioning.

Yeah, well, the argument's always there, right? Is it like New York City or Boston? And honestly, I think it's a toss up. Throw a rock in either place and you'll hit a good trainer, which is really, really cool. So we really got to kind of like hone our experience there amongst just a great crowd of people. And then we moved up to New Hampshire, honestly. Mostly because me and Anna aren't city people.

Interesting. Were you a. Did you have an athletic background?

I always played sports my whole life. But no, honestly, like, I'm not a sports guy. And a lot of times, like, clients will always ask me, like, oh, did you watch the Celtics last night? And I know that's a sore subject right now for a lot of New England fans, but, no, I'm really not that into sports. And I think that really brings, like, a unique objective or perspective, though, to how we train people here.

That's amazing. Anna wasn't either. You guys just fell in love with movement later in life?

No, Anna was way more the athlete. And it's really funny because when you see us demonstrate, like, different movements and stuff, like, if anything, athletic, I'm like, yeah, let Anna show you that one.

Yeah. Oh, my go. Amazing. Okay, so now you've opened up this facility, and you said you. You primarily serve the people that are not that. That need motivation to move. Right. So what are some of the. What are some of the. Can you walk us through your process and how you meet a potential new client and then carry them through a. A movement journey?

Yeah, definitely. So we actually start everyone with, like, a free trial, and even if they walk in the door that day and want to hand us a credit card, we won't take it. And the reason being is we have, like, a variety of different services, and we really thrive on, like, creating a really customized experience for them. So they'll do the free week, they'll try out our different services, and then from there we can help them pick one that, like, really fits them and their personality. So, for example, like, if they're more of an introverted person like myself, I'm on a podcast right now, but I'm much more of an introvert. So I'm not going to, like, big group classes, right. And ours aren't even that big. We kept them at 12, but I'm going for, like, a small group personal training or semi private training environment. But others might thrive on, like, that community. So right from there, we help them match the service. And then as we go along, like, I feel like, especially if you make that right decision in the first place, we really set up success for consistency and adherence, right. Because they're in an environment that they enjoy.

That's so good. And I think a lot of people miss that, is that they don't, you know, they. It's really important to meet people where they're at, and, like, you know, that that can Be hard to navigate. So I'm curious, you know, what are some of the things, like how do you elicit that type of information in the conversation you're having with clients? Because typically it's not like, hey, are you an introvert or an extrovert?

Yeah, yeah. So it's actually through like a combination of things. And it really starts with a really lengthy intake form. And right away, like, if someone doesn't go through that, it's kind of like a self screen. Right. And that's where again, that helps us and it helps them is like if they're not that committed and they don't want to go through a couple pages of questions, they might not be a good fit right now for them. And that's okay. So it starts there, but then once we get them in the gym, we have a conversation in that whole free trial week. It's not just really about the services, that's part of it, but a lot of it is like us getting to know them and we have a small group training environment. Again, at the very most, it's 12 people in the room at the time. So we're really getting to know them as a person and helping them at the end make that decision because it's really more collaborative than it is us telling them what to do. They like make their own membership at the end, which I think is pretty cool.

Oh, that's cool. And that's, that's sounds like. Not. That sounds like it sets you apart in the marketplace, because I don't think most places around there do that.

No, no. And like, and I'm not saying one way is better or worse, but again, people that we work with and we serve, it does give this sen of freedom and like autonomy. Right. And honestly, because of that, we do actually find that people kind of stick around longer, which is ironic. Right. As opposed to making them sign like a 12 month contract. Right, right. On day one.

Amazing. Amazing. Okay, so then, so then can you walk us? Like with your people that you were working with, do you primarily have a lot of injuries? Are you dealing with pain management? Like, what are some of the, the things and events or experiences? I don't want to say problems, but experiences that your people go through that you have to navigate and plan and program for.

I would say we work primarily with two groups of people, those who have had like prior experiences in the fitness industry and just didn't, didn't have a good experience or like postpartum fitness, like moms who have had kids. Um, that's really Honestly, most of our clientele, and obviously there's exceptions to that. Um, but that's the majority of it.

Amazing. Okay, great. So now that you have this clientele, like, what are. How do. And you've taken this intake form. What's the assessment?

Yeah, so the intake form itself, we have all that information when they walk in the door, which is great. And that really just sets like a much more casual conversational tone. So the person comes in and it's really just like, hey, like I read through the form. These are the things that kind of stood out to me. But could you tell me a little bit about yourself? And let's go from there. So we have a little chat and then I'll take them through a brief movement assessment. Nothing really difficult. We tell them they're not even like working out on day one. And again, just like lowering that barrier for getting in the door. And like, it's usually like an overhead range of motion assessment. We'll do like a squat assessment, a toe touch, just some really simple stuff, but something that helps me create like a week long trial program for them while they're there.

Okay, great. So you actually are building out a one week program for them. It's not even. You're literally like, this is what you're going to accomplish in a week.

Yeah. And that's right from the beginning. And like, and honestly, it's a lot of upfront work. But again, it really just helps them buy into the process because, like throughout that program, they're getting like a binder. And in their binder they have the program printed and they're looking at it each day and they're seeing that like they came in on day one and already on day three, like the weights are starting to go up and stuff. And already they're like three. Yeah, well, so like, for example, like, one of the things I like to do is if someone comes in three days a week, first day we'll do like a goblet squat. Right. And then the last day of the week, we'll do that goblet squat again. And already they're more confident and more comfortable with it. And maybe they're reaching for a heavier dumbbell on the rack and right there, like, that's a win. That's awesome. Whether you sign up with us or not. Good. Great job.

Yeah. Okay, so you're giving them wins in that week?

Yeah, as many as we can. That's the main goal.

I see. Okay. How long do people typically stay with you? Like, how long do you typically program for them.

Yeah. So the cool thing is like, we're so new and we. I can't even really give like good turnover rates because we haven't had much. And I mean, we have a lot of people that were working with us before even online. So we have some people that have been here for like five years, including the online coaching we did before. Yeah. And then some that have been here the full year and then we're growing slowly every day. So a lot of new people.

That's amazing. That's amazing. So I mean, people usually come for content and then stay for community often, you know, so it's really cool. So now I'm curious, like, even in your weak program, you know, we hear a lot. We know that, you know, people will, will come in with, with sometimes expectations of like, I don't want to do a, you know, a boring program. So I know that coaches will feel like, how do I get the buy in from my client and deliver an effective progressive overload program? Like, how do you do that?

Well, for us, again, it's like identifying those main movements that we do want to progress. So for example, like everybody comes in with like a squat, a hinge, a push and a pull and like, but for example, like again, building in those wins. Like my favorite way to progress like a push is the push up. So everybody will come in and they'll start with a body weight pushup. But we'll actually have them do it like in the squat rack and we'll load the bar on the rack and we have like 1 inch increments starting at, I mean 9ft. We go all the way down to the floor. So they're seeing like visual improvements every time they're doing that push up. So again, if they do the push up on day one and they come back day three, they're already lowering that bar down and they're already seeing themselves go closer to the floor. So the main movements we really like to keep consistent and show the wins and the progress in. And then it's really like the, the assistance movements and kind of like their conditioning finishers where we'll give them a lot of variety for fun.

Oh, so cool. And can you really progress someone from that, that quickly from like for a push up, for example, for like the bar all the way down to the floor in a week?

I mean, it really depends on the person. A lot of times it's not in the week. But we've actually been blown away by how fast some people are. And granted a lot of those people are People who had like, prior physical activity took some time off and then are coming back into it. But yeah, a lot of times, like we have the markers on our racks and obviously this only makes sense to us. But like the. I think it's like 10 holes from the top of the rack. If they can start there within about a month or two, they're usually at the floor, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, that is cool. And that is also like a very specific, tangible result that you can communicate to someone you're going to get.

Right. And it's something they care about too. Like most people, at least most of the people we work with don't really care if their dumbbell bench press went from like £15 to £20, but it means nothing to them. But like, working towards that full pushup is really, really cool.

That is cool. So that's interesting to me. They don't really care about the weight, but they care about whether or not they can hit a pull up.

It depends on the client. But yeah, like we do, we, we attract way more people who are like, I want to get that first push up, I want to get that first pull up. But then it is interesting because, like we have strength classes and it is cool to see people like get not in a bad way, but like caught up in like, oh, like I can deadlift heavier than I thought and they'll see what those numbers are. And especially like the push. A lot of times people really like pushing heavy numbers on the flood. So it depends.

Yeah, that's cool. So what are some of the challenges that you've had to face that you were unexpected or the unexpected challenges you had to face when you opened up your facility?

Yeah, so we had a, we had a really unique and kind of interesting start, which I won't dive too much into. But we also really just like the timing. And I think we talked about that earlier, right. Is that this was never like long term planned out. And again, if it was, we definitely would have waited till after a pandemic. But it was the timing of it. And in that regard too, though, we were really lucky and we found some great people who allowed us to step into this spot that's already here and kind of grow in a really smart, slow way that lets us do it the right way in our views and our values, which we've loved.

I love it. So now when you are, you know, now when you're running this facility, how have you been able to balance doing what you love, coaching and then also, you know, running a business?

Oh, My goodness, that's a great question. And honestly, we don't have an answer yet because it's, it's really, really hard right now. And I'll be completely honest with people. And that's the funny thing is, again, this is never the long term plan. And I actually have a bunch of great friends and mentors who are gym owners and they always are like, don't do it, don't do it. And you gotta love it. And they mean it with love. But, and I agree, it's a lot of work and you do not have as much energy for the coaching side of things. And that's what I truly love myself is the coaching. And I'm definitely much more of like the technician. I like to be on the floor coaching people, but we're just so spread between like back of the scenes, like, business stuff and on the floor coaching that it is hard to find the balance of both right now.

Yeah, it is. I mean, because when you open a business, whether it's online or in person, in person is just number one. Your barrier of entry is so much higher than, than people really realize. Because you now you've got rent and you're going to need team and I got operations. Like, there's just a level of commitment that online people don't necessarily need to deal with. Right, right. Then, you know, if things break down and like all these other operation stuff that people just forget about, those are.

The things we weren't ready for and not, and not in a bad way. And we've adapted and we've grown. But yeah, like, hey, the rower's broken. Hey, the rower's broken again. Hey, the rower's broken. And he's like, oh, God, I keep thinking of the thing, you know, but yeah, it's like setting aside time for that.

Honestly, that's how I felt when I moved out of Manhattan into my house. It was like, you know, my husband and I are looking at each other and we're like, well, let's call the landlord. And we're like, oh, cool. Crap, we are the landlord.

Yeah, yeah, there's no one to delegate to.

Yes, exactly. And so, you know, are you, are you also. Speaking of team, are you, do you have coaches underneath you or are you guys just all doing it right now by yourselves?

Right now we're all doing it by ourselves. But we are in the process of starting to start the hiring process and that's something we really want to, to do the right way and make sure that when we're ready to have a coach we can provide, like, a really good environment and, like, a good potential career for them. So we were just waiting, and we're probably shouldering too much of the load right now and waiting too long, but I feel more comfortable with that right now.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So, you know, and I asked this because, you know, the next question is, you know, are you going to also be including an educational component to help develop said coach so that you'll still get to coach, but just differently?

Yeah, absolutely. And, like, that's what we really care about. Right. And at our facility, we do things very differently. And just like, in terms of, like, a lot of the culture here and the conversations on the coaching floor, and because of that, we really actually kind of want someone who doesn't have much experience in coaching, and it's just a really great person, and we want to help that person develop and grow and, like, learn fitness from, like, just a different point of view.

Yes, absolutely. So what would you say? So, speaking of education for you, what were your. Some of your biggest mentors, what were some of the biggest lessons that you learned coming outside of school in the actual working environment that you feel like the fitness industry doesn't talk enough about?

Yeah, well, just in terms of, like, biggest mentors, I've had, like, a few, and I've been so lucky to have so many great people help me in the past. And, like, actually, I know of you, Beverly, from the mentorship group with Kyle Dobbs. So he's one of my mentors.

Love it.

Yeah, Kyle's a great guy. Yeah. And he was like, really what allowed me and Anna to open the business and really be like, you guys do know what you're doing, and like, let's make systems and put it in place. Because we had all these ideas. Right. We knew what we wanted to do, but. And he really, like, helped us lay that out, so we're ever grateful for that. He's a great guy. And then individually, like, I can't speak for Anna because I know she has some herself, but, like, I remember. So I actually went to school for environmental science, and I didn't love it. I still graduated with the degree, but while I was there, I kind of fell in love with training. And it was like the head trainer at that gym that really, like, taught me what it was like to be a coach and to be also a good person while you coached. And that's one of my. My big mentors as well.

I love that. Was this a big box gym or a smaller gym?

No, it was really cool, actually. It was. It was. The community college is like campus gym, and we lived in the middle of nowhere out in the Berkshires in Western Mass. And it was like this gem of a little gym that had like weightlifting platforms and bumper plates and all really nice equipment. It was so cool.

Yeah, that's cool. And you had a great coach.

He was awesome. Yeah, yeah.

It's interesting because, you know, I. I often talk to a lot of my, you know, my colleagues. You guys are, you know, had experience in fitness, like through college, and I didn't. I came way later in the game. So I always laugh because I'm like, I have no idea what. What was happening in high school and in college. It wasn't even on my radar.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, I mean, and a lot of people we know too, don't even have degrees in fitness. But the thing is, like, sometimes those are the best coach. And that's why when we said we're looking to hire someone is originally we're like someone right out of college because someone knew. But it doesn't have to be right out of college. It could be anybody. Just like blank slate in terms of fitness experience, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. Yeah. I love that. I love that. So in terms of your continued education, how are you also sharpening the saw? Like, what are some of your new mentors as you continue to grow in your business and in science?

Yeah, definitely. So in terms of, like, the training stuff, I've always just been like, that's like my guilty pleasure. Right. I'll over consume training education to my own detriment, actually. So that's kind of taken care of. But where we really pivoted is like, looking more for mentors that are business mentors and have done like, what we're doing with like the brick and mortar space just because, like, again, we're realizing that that's very unique. So we've been working a little bit with business for unicorns.

Love them. They were the first person I thought about.

Oh, yeah. I was going to say they're so great. And we look forward to continuing to work with them just because they're great.

Yeah. Mark and Michael are amazing human beings.

They really are. And like, above all, like, that's what we value, like, most. And they're just great humans first and then also just happen to be incredible at what they do as well.

Yes, yes. And I think that what. What I love, which I can hear in your work as well, is that is the importance of creating a community.

Yeah.

In Your facility, which can be so impossible, which can be really challenging.

It is, it's really, really hard. And like we've seen kind of like the opposite end of like really toxic and harmful communities. And honestly I think that like really helped us is like seeing both ends of the spectrum and realizing that like we do create like the environment for the community, but it's actually the clients that created themselves. Like our walls are here and the coaches help kind of facilitate, for example, like, like silly little things that like question of the week. And it just gets people who are like not as comfortable talking to start talking to each other. And the coaches will ask the question on the coaching floor and then everybody's talking about it. Right. And it might be people that get pulled into that conversation. Um, but yeah, it really is them that create it.

Yeah, so true. What are some of the things that you've put in place to help cultivate a community inside of your, inside of your gym?

Yeah, I think really like the system, like the systems we put in place in terms of the business itself are what really helped. Like it's a small community. Like we only have 1200 square feet of training space which a lot of people see as a limitation, but that's actually like our greatest asset. Like no one doesn't know each other, you know what I mean? And like there's this one little bench where everybody puts their stuff when they come in. And like even our one on ones have to interact with the class and all the people and the parents waiting for kids and you know what I mean? Like it's pretty cool. And we do think like that small space helps promote that.

Oh, I love that. Have you had any resistance? How have you overcome the resistance? Like especially for your introverted people?

Yeah, and like we do have people and I wouldn't even really say resistance. And that's the cool part is we do even offer one on one training. We're really trying to step away from that. But I do have some one on ones that like long term they're just more introverted. They want that one on one environment and that's what we do. So they do have options in terms of services. And there are times like we can work with people and be like, hey, this is when the gym's less busy. This is the time that's a lot more, a lot more popular. So I think there's option for everybody right now.

I love that, I love that. And that's helped, that's helped overcome resistance or objections I guess, and then hand create community Which I just think is so important, especially now and in the pandemic, because I don't think we've yet to see the impact of the isolation that we've gone through and how people are responding. I feel like we've just seen a lot of pressure cooker moments in the world and having community, I think is essential.

Yeah, Well, a lot of people are seeing like a big upswing in people participating in fitness since like Covid. And I know a lot of people attribute that to people being cooped up in like the lack of physical activity. But I would actually argue it's probably more like a desire to have community again.

Agreed, me too.

And Right. Like, and what better place to have it than like a place where you get to like move your body to and do some kind of like, cool, challenging, fun stuff, in my opinion.

I'm obviously a little biased, but I'm biased too. But I agree. I think that that is, like, I think that people have really, you know, suffered and struggled during this time. Like, they didn't even realize they needed. You know, I think that even the people that would consider themselves sedentary still noticed a decline in their physical activity and movement.

Right. Because even if, like, what, like what we find with people who, like, that's one of the things we'll ask on their intake form is how active they are. Right. And even people who. Saying they're very sedentary at work, like, we will find like, oh, but you do get up and you have to move for this and that. And like, it is built into your day. Right. And if you're literally not getting up for anything, you're. You're just working from home. It can be tough.

I, I mean, this was one of the biggest impacts I'll. I'll share for me personally was because I, you know, even people who consider themselves sedentary are commuting. Even if it's like, what, you know, walking downstairs, walking to your car parking, walking to work and go from that to like literally now your commute is like, walk down the stair stairs. You're not even getting dressed anymore, which actually takes effort.

You're taking away so many. And like, if you're counting steps, that right there. Yeah.

I mean, I was commuting to New York City and I was, you know, that's 10,000 steps right there.

Yeah, yeah.

And now all of a sudden I'm down to 200. You. It's like the small things in life that people don't realize have such a massive impact on their mental health. And their physical health.

Absolutely. And that's why we're always looking for people to, like, find that thing outside of the gym, too. Right. Is like. And, like, steps for us. Sometimes we'll get people, like, a step goal, but a lot of times, like, go for a walk with your partner or your dog or whatever it may be and, like, find that thing that. That makes you happy.

Yeah, yeah, that's. It sounds. It sounds so simple. But oftentimes, just because it's simple doesn't mean that it's easy for people, I think.

Yeah. And honestly, like, sometimes the simplest things are the hardest. Right. Because, like, you know, it's simple and. And you feel like you don't need to go all in on it, but a lot of times it's those simple things that you do have to go all in on.

Yeah. Yeah. Your clients feel this too?

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Again, I think that, like, one of the hardest things that people are not hardest, but one of the things we have biggest conversations over is, like, consistency and adherence and. And, like, just trusting the process long enough for. To see those results that you're looking for.

So how. So how do you navigate those types of conversations? Because I think it's two things. Right. Or three things. It's also expectations. Like, people come in with expectations and adherence and the shame spiral. How do you navigate these conversations?

I think the first thing you said, the expectations, is, like, the biggest thing that we do. And we also provide our clients with a lot of education and provide those conversations to happen while they're here, too. So I feel like we do reeducate and kind of re. Navigate those expectations in the beginning, and that helps a lot. But then we also, again, like I talked about earlier, build in, like, those progressive, small wins that they can see. So, again, like, instead of, like, looking for pounds on the scale, which might occur a lot slower, it's like, well, look at how much vegetables you had last week, or look how you were consistent with this and give them those little wins.

So good. And that helps them, we find.

Yeah, but that is. Again, like, the hardest part is nutrition. I'm sure a lot of. A lot of coaches will talk about. Yeah. So the best part is if we can't find that, we can help them to the best of our abilities. We do have, like, a nutrition coach that we will refer out to. We work hand in hand with. Which is awesome. So we just really have. We're like, all right, let's take it to the next level, and why don't you go meet with her name's Ann, and Ann's the best.

That's amazing. So you do navigate nutrition conversations.

Yeah, and, like, that's actually something that we're a little bit unique about, is we navigate them very differently and personal to each person. And that's, again, like, how we create this custom experience is a lot of people that come to us might have prior or working through an eating disorder, and those are things where, for example, like, their therapist, they're not going to engage with nutrition at all, and that's okay. And that's, like, the unique part about our gym is we try and keep, like, general nutrition talk off of the coaching floor while people are there. And that's something that we can only do because we have such a small amount of people training at once. But that doesn't mean we're not available to talk about nutrition. And those are the conversations that we'll have on the side with clients and stuff and have seminars, but it's something that you can opt in and out of.

So is it a rule that you don't talk about nutrition in your facility?

Yeah, well, and it's not a rule that we don't talk about it, but we try and avoid, like, if you're familiar with, like, the concept of diet culture and diet culture talk. And again, we'll try and, like, reframe a lot of those conversations, and I think we do a pretty good job of that. Is, like, if someone says, like, hey, like, I ate a ton of vegetables, no one's going to be like, hey, like, keep it down over there. You can't talk about that. Right. Like, we're off, like, awesome. And everyone will congratulate that person. But it is something where, like, if someone starts talking about, like, like, like, negatively talking about their body on the coaching floor, like, the coach will acknowledge it, but then we're going to reframe it, and we're going to reframe it for them, but also in front of other people. So we set that example, which is hard, and it's hard for me to do as a person, but it's something that we need to do, and we find that that helps.

That's great. Do you have to. I mean, I think the psychology. The psychology of. The psychology of a client's what they go through in terms of eating and adherence. It's really intense and in depth. In a lot of our work, we have to deal with that. Like, that's the majority of the work. It's usually not about strategy. And this is also true by the way for business building, too. It's usually not about the strategy, and it's not about what you say. You say it. It's about navigating through the. The waters of what is actually resistance and what is, like, much deeper trauma, essentially.

Right. And it's really hard, too, when you identify as a coach. Like, you're like. Like, you get to that point, you're like, oh, I know. I can't help with that.

Yes.

And like, you don't. And sometimes you don't even know how to tell the client that, or you can't tell the client that, or they're not ready to hear that. Right?

Oh, yes.

Because it's not your role either to be like, they're. I don't know. I think a lot of times we overstep our boundaries. Right. And outside of the gym, we're not in control of their life at all. So that's, again, where we can have those, like, referrals out. And that's the cool part, is then it allows us, like, have the conversation, but super objectively. And we almost are like, well, if you think that you need to talk about that, why don't you talk about it with this person? And it goes a lot better that way.

Yes, it does. My gosh. Yes. I also think that. And I've shared this before, and I think it's important to reiterate too, is that when you can say, hey, let's. When you can refer out. I personally think that it demonstrates more trust and value and deepens the connection to the relationship to the client. Because if you're trying to be everything to one person, and this is true in all relationships, I say this to my husband, like, I can't be everything. The one thing you need to have multiple different influences, relationships, you know, to help you be happy. That's not my responsibility. Right. So I feel like it'll deepen that connection with your client when you can say, hey, I think this person can help you with this at a deeper level than me.

Right. And especially with some of the conversations we have too. Right. Is that, like, we really try and like, for example, the seminars we put on are like, what do you guys need? Like, what do you want? What are your questions? And the cool thing is we've created this, like, kind of almost like a psychological safe space, if you will, and where people can answer those questions and not feel judged. So we just had someone come in and do a pelvic health seminar. And she's another coach in the area, but she's also Like a cpt, and she specializes in pelvic health. And it's like, hey, I don't want to have this conversation with you because I know you're not going to feel comfortable with me having it. So let's have someone who's way smarter, way better, and way better at talking about those things come in and have it with you.

Especially since you have the postpartum world.

Oh, my goodness, it is wild. And, like, again, I was super unknowledgeable myself, but that's not something we learned about. And the more I learned about it, the more I know I don't know anything about it.

Oh, my gosh.

Amazing. Yeah, it's a lot. So we were like, let's have someone come in who knows everything. So we did.

I mean, I was really embarrassed. I was embarrassed for all the moms I used to work with that I thought I knew I was helping. And I look back on it now, and I'm like, oh. Oh, thank God. Bodies are resilient.

Yeah, those. All those poor women. I was like, all right, we're going to start with some jumping jacks. I just didn't understand, and now I get it, and I wish I could. Like, I'm so sorry. Me, too.

Me too. I always want to go back and be like, oh, I'm so sorry, but you did it.

We made it. Yeah, we made it. And they made it, too. That's the important part.

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, this is what I also think is the curse of a good coach. We always oftentimes know there's more to learn. So then we get, like, paralysis by analysis because we're like, I don't want to hurt anyone, because I know back in the day, I could have potentially, you know, so it's definitely a nuanced conversation of being, like, implement so that you can learn.

Oh, and I personally have the hardest time with that myself. Yeah, I can. I can relate tremendously. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, me too. I mean, me, too. I still sometimes lay awake at night cringing, thinking of. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I did that.

Yep. Yep. All the time. Or things that happened, like, five years ago. Wake up and cold. Yep. Been there.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Anyway, I totally get it, so I definitely. I definitely want to be mindful of your time, so I want to. So I have just a couple more questions, and then we'll wrap up and you can share with us, like, where we can continue to work with you and learn about. Learn about your facility and come and support you. So I will. Like, my. One of my last questions is, and what I love to ask people is, what would you go back and tell yourself when you first started this journey? What is it that you wish you knew now? Or what is it that you know now that you wish you knew that.

Oh, my goodness, that's. There's so much.

Yeah, give me what you got.

And I know this is getting, like, a little bit deeper and, like, kind of vague, but I would say it's more of, like, a better understanding of myself, because I think that as I've understood myself better, I'm able to better voice what we want in the fitness industry in the world and in our business. And I know Anna would probably say something very similar as well. And I'm actually glad that I didn't know that in the past, because it made me go through a lot of stuff to learn that. So I guess that's my answer.

Powerful. I think that for me as a coach, it's been hard for me to navigate because, honestly, I'm 100% with you. I think that anyone who says that business isn't personal is just kidding themselves. And I say this because we have to live on the razor's edge of caring about everything and nothing at the same time. And I've said that a million times times. So, you know, but it can be hard for someone who's newer and like, no, no, no. This is only business. I don't have anything to do with it.

Right. Really?

You have everything to do with it?

Absolutely. And I have, again, personally, the hardest time with that. Like you said, the razor's edge of, like, caring and not caring. Because, again, like, people are going to cancel, things are going to happen, bad things happen. But it's, like, not emotionally attaching, but then also emotionally attaching enough to be like, is there a reason it's happening and what do we need to do to fix that? Yes. It's exhausting.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, great. So where are some of the best places I can send people your way?

Honestly, I would say the best place is definitely our Instagram. That's where we're the most active, and that's really where you can see, like, the most, like, what we're about and kind of the community that we have here. So we're ascent training. It's underscore Ascenttraining on Instagram.

Okay, cool. Okay, great. And we'll make sure that we tag all of that up. So thank you so much for.

No, thank you. We appreciate.

Was so good. I really appreciate. It was so fun. Thanks Matt.

Thank you so much. Have a good one.

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