Continuing Education, Movement Variability, and Mental Health with Mike Woodby

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 250. Today your host, Beverly Simpson is talking to guest Mike Woodbee about continuing education, movement variability and mental health.

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Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services, and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit podcast.

As a performance coach and staff development manager at Optimal Performance Training Center, Mike understands the importance of individualization in coaching. He emphasizes that coaches must be willing to adapt and take each situation as brand new one because every athlete has different gaps and needs. While there are molds that athletes fit into initially, coaches must be willing to peel back and figure out exactly where to meet each athlete. Mike is also the founder of Grizzly Performance. He is a semi private performance coach who believes that building trust and connecting with athletes is the most important aspect of coaching. His coaching approach emphasizes individualization and customization with a focus on understanding an athlete's biomechanics, movement patterns and injury history. Mike's coaching philosophy centers around hard work, consistency and dedication. With his goal being to help his athletes achieve their full potential. Let's go ahead and dive into that episode.

What's up, Mike? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you?

I am doing fantastic. It's been a really good day so far.

I love it. Where are you in the world?

So I am in Jenison, Michigan. For anyone familiar with the state, we all have kind of like the mitten thing.

Right.

So Lake Michigan's over here. I'm kind of like 30 minutes off the lake right here. So near Grand Rapids.

Oh, okay. So my husband is from St. Louis and so his family, every odd year we always go to Michigan for the summer. Like we go for a week as together as the. For the family and I, we can fly in to Grand Rapids and.

Oh, perfect.

And then we drive to Union. Union Pier is what I want to say.

Okay. Yeah, very nice. Cool.

Okay, so I'd love to just go ahead, dive in. Can you share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I do a lot of things. Right now I'm. I'm kind of, you know, balancing multiple plates. But right now I work for a gym called Optimal Performance training center. And I came here about a year and a half ago, got hired on as a semi private performance coach. And then my, my secondary responsibility was basically staff and intern development as well. And so I kind of manage a lot of the continuing education. I run our internship program, things like that. And then since the summer of COVID 2020, I've also kind of had a bit of a side hustle going on where I do hybrid coaching and I run a business called Grizzly Performance. And so I've been doing that on the side. It's just kind of like a slow growth type of a deal. But it's gotten to the point where it's super fulfilling, super fun and I can serve some, some really exciting athletes with big goals, which is, which is awesome.

I love that. Okay, so let's dive into a little bit more about, you know, the continuing education process that you are facilitating. So can you talk to us a little bit about the, the curriculum that you've put together, how you put it together, what's it based in, you know, like what are some of the common things that you see a lot of new, brand new coaches get into?

Yeah, for sure. So that's, you know, it's going to be different depending on if we're talking, you know, interns or just coaching staff. You know, the process with the coaching staff is really every couple months sort of have to assess, you know, what are the gaps or what are some big things that I think like we could shore up as a group right now or if we've added on a new coach, you know, trying to figure out like what's the most, the biggest bang for your buck thing that I can go over that's going to benefit all of us in our staff meetings. Right on top of that, I do like some development meetings, one on one with the other coaches as well during the week. But the really the bread and butter, what I've got organized well is the internship program. And so that's. We basically run a 12 week curriculum and they have like a full syllabus. I mean it's like a, it's almost like a semester of college for them. And so every week it's a reading selection that you know, me and another coach have compiled from stuff that we feel like was really important in our development. And they've got meetings every week. They have like program prompts that they have to fill out. They have progressive responsibilities throughout. And so really what we're trying to cover there is all of the big stuff that I think built Me into the coach that I am today. I try to go back and figure out what were like the most meaningful, most applicable resources that I was exposed to post graduation that really leveled up my coaching abilities because when I went to school I went for sports medicine and I had one strength and conditioning class, but I graduated and I knew strength and conditioning was where I wanted to be. I kind of had that change of heart at the end of school. And so it was a bit of a self learning experience where I had great mentors and I had decent connections and I knew what I needed to learn and. And so I had to sort of dive in and like figure out what the most important stuff was.

What did you realize? You know, you said that you created it from the things that you wish that you had had. Like what are those main core, like big rocks resources that you dive into?

Absolutely. I like to go on tangents. So like if I get running too hot, just interrupt me. Put the brakes on.

I wouldn't ever.

Yeah. Some of the early stuff that I got exposed to and I think this was like really a blessing that I was able to sort of get in with this crowd was like some of like Pat Davidson's material and some stuff with Bill Hartman, which for like just post grad I think was really cool.

Right.

Because that's a, that's a world that no matter how deep you dive into it, you get exposed to a lot of different viewpoints. You get exposed to a lot of like kind of groundbreaking stuff with training that really can alter the way that you view, you know, the body and performance for a long time. So a lot of that, you know, your basic super training, triphasic training, things along that nature, were some textbooks that like I dove into after college. And you know, those are, some of those are models, right? And they're individual models and they don't apply across the board. But the concepts within those, if you're able to sort of pull that out and then, you know, have the big picture view to plug it in within the right context can be super lethal for, for a performance coach. And then the next step after a lot of that, like hard science. Oh, I've got one right here that I think is if anybody like needs a good like thorough science book called the Physiology of Training for Performance, that is like the most awesome book I've ever read. Just covers everything very scientifically based. So that's another one really good textbook for any young coaches that like need to just learn more. But the second tier after the science based stuff That I felt like really opened up sort of my ability to take that information and get creative with it. Get comfortable. Not just copy and pasting templates, get comfortable, like living outside of a very strict system which within the semi private world is very important. You know, you're writing individualized programs for 120 athletes. It's like, how do you do that?

Right.

So the next step that I think really pulled that out was I got into a lot of stuff about like the brain. And I had this like year long sort of fascination where I read a bunch of stuff about like consciousness, right. And about like social thinking and about behavior. And I'm sure like some people are familiar with like why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, that book by Sapolsky, right. He had another one called Behave and it was all about like psychology and hormones and things like that. And there was so much in there that I felt like as I started interacting with people, crossed over and made their like their attitudes and their performance and their buy in really start to make sense. And it was sort of like this light bulb for me where I almost, I had to pull back from sort of this like mathematic, formulaic type of thinking about coaching and programming and get comfortable being a lot more, I don't want to say on the fly, right, because that sounds unprepared, but willing to do things differently or like kind of put in a little bit of extra work on the thinking end ahead of time to make things like truly potent and not just like, hey, you're going to run this model because it worked for somebody else that I coached that was like the same type of athlete as you, but like, hey, this is this person that I know, this is their attitude, this is what they enjoy in training, this is where they're at in their life. Like after a couple months of working with a kid like that, you start to realize what is working within that like ideal strength and conditioning model and what might need to be changed.

So there's two things that you brought up that I really want to dive into because I think it's one of the biggest misconceptions that that is so counter. It's one of those nuanced topics. And the reason I say this is because, you know, we're going to talk about consciousness and we're going to talk about the law of polarity. You cannot have one without the other. And so what happens to a lot of people is like, you're not going to know the light without the dark. And so what I See, a lot of people do is they make buying decisions or they make decisions about someone's expertise based on other people's results. But that's like going on a diet, going on keto because their next door neighbor Sally, said that that's what's going to work for them. There's absolutely zero credibility or validation to say that that system or that coach is going to be able to deliver the same results for me, because that's the difference in my opinion, between skill and being able to actually implement that type of skill to individuals versus, you know, looking at someone's results and genetics and, or, or they made seven figures, but they spent seven figures or they made seven figures because they charge seven figures. It absolutely has zero reflection on whether or not they can do it for you. So I'm curious, you know, how you navigate that with your coaches and with. For yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the, one of the biggest things that I think is helpful for me and it's hard to communicate through the con Ed side of things, is basically just pulling back and almost taking every situation like a brand new situation. Because there certainly are like molds that our athletes come in and they fit really well. And initially, right, we'll get a month or two with an athlete. And you don't know them yet, you haven't worked with them, you haven't seen them move. You don't see how quick their ground contacts are. You don't see like what positions they can get into. And so you don't really know. And you're going to probably throw them a GPP program or meet them where they're at with a template that seems fitting, right? But after that stuff falls apart where, like, you can't just keep running, you know, the exact same stuff for every single athlete. And you have to peel that back. And so, you know, what we've been trying to do lately and what I've actually done with one of our coaches is I basically had him lift. So talk taking like plyometrics or, or like ballistics right jumps, Plyos, extensive work, powerful works, things like that. And I had him. Basically we came up with like 20 characteristics of plyos, right? Is it high yield, is it low yield, Is it change of direction, Is it multiple, like movements consecutively? Is it lateral? Is it vertical? Like all these things, right? We came up with like 20 and I literally had him just compile a list of everything he could think of that fit each characteristic. And he blew me away with it. He came up with like 400 things in a week, which I was not expecting him to be that thorough, but he was. And then what we did from there is we went on an individual basis and he just brought me like three of his athletes that he feels the most connected to, really understands like what they need on the field and can really see kind of the gap in their performance. Because every athlete has a different gap, especially if you are able to watch them sprint, if you're able to watch them try to change direction, if you're able to watch them, you know, perform consecutive ballistic movements in a row, they start to show you what those gaps are and maybe where the best direction to get like actual sport transfer is going to be. And so you obviously have your general stuff, but then you have your specific or kind of like crossover bridge stuff that you can fill those gaps. And so he brought me like three of his athletes that he's seen a lot of. He knew sort of what they needed. And then based on those weaknesses, right, we went away from, you know, there's a very like, easy to apply and very consistently like result getting model within plyometrics where it's like sort of extensive to power. It's like bilateral basic stuff to more dynamic stuff. It's planned to reactive. It's that spectrum which is great when you're starting out, but when you're really trying to get that athlete to level up, you got to figure out exactly where to meet them. And so we took these athletes on an individual basis and basically went over, okay, given this entire category or these entire like 15 to 20 categories of things that like plyometrics can be characterized by. Given the gaps with these athletes, which categories are going to be like the biggest bang for your buck, right? And then from there it's like, how much crossover can we get within categories? So can we put together like a low yield plyometric with a horizontal plyometric? Can we put together like a very ankle focused plyometric with something that's covering, you know, ground horizontally rather than vertically, Things like that. And so that's, you know, there's, there's so much ground. I mean he came up with like four or five hundred exercises, right? And so it's like, oh, there's like a million options. How are we going to do this? And I sort of think it sort of lines up with, you know, Pat Davidson's rethinking the big patterns a little bit. Where once you have this system of like, I've got categories, I've got very important things that I need to establish how, like, what can I do that actually fits the most needs at the most times, at the most needs at one time.

Right.

In a very effective way. And like, how can I make that program the biggest bang for, for the athlete's buck? Pretty much.

So when you use the word athlete, are you talking about professional athletes or are you talking about your general population? Anyone who moves.

Yeah, I guess I should probably clarify that. So Optimal Performance Training Center. My, my day job, not my remote coaching job. We deal primarily with high school and college athletes. And so we run a semi private model, which means they come in, they warm up, they do team sprints together, and then after that, every single athlete has an individualized program to the extent that it's appropriate.

Right.

A lot of things are across the board going to be very effective. But each athlete has.

Right.

There are one or two things that they specifically need to work on. And so we're able to get pretty targeted with things. So it's a really fun model. So I am talking about team sports, athletes. Yeah.

Now, do you notice that the principles that you use to, to create athletic programs, they transcend into your general population?

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, I had some, you know, before this, I had some strength and conditioning experience and I worked with a lot of people in person. More like general population in person. But since basically jumping into this job, seeing so many athletes at work, writing so many programs and then actually having to teach concepts, my ability as a remote coach for more like post athletics general population clients has absolutely skyrocketed. For sure. Cool, cool, cool.

Okay, so the second thing that I did, I want to circle back because the second thing that I wanted to bring up because I'm curious for you and I don't know about you, but I'll speak to me anytime I get into a world of new learning, it's both really exciting and also super overwhelming. Like, oh my gosh, gosh, I know nothing. And I also feel like, oh, I'm. Oh, I'm actually hurting people, not helping them. Not true. It's not true. But I would get into that like over when it came to, you know, you getting into Pat Davidson's and Bill Hartman's world as a strength and conditioning coach and not physiotherapist. Right. So I'm curious for you, how do you balance the ability to stay on the cutting edge of education? Not it's always changing and getting excited about the education without getting into that overwhelmed side. And when I speak to overwhelm, I'M specifically referring to it as there's so much to learn. I'm. I'm never going to. I'm behind, and I'm always behind.

Yeah.

Assuming your new coaches probably have a lot of the same feeling.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

We went through a biomechanics model at the beginning of the fall, and we had a brand new coach. He had just finished his internship, and our development meetings were all basically, like, okay, like, how do I, you know, go after left stand or, you know, like, mid stance with this athlete? And, like, what does compression and expansion mean? And he was kind of worried that he didn't, like, have a full grasp on it.

Right.

We're going over this stuff in Con Ed meetings, and some of it is just, like, going over his head. Super bright kid. But there's such a foundation, and you have to see it at work so often for it to really start to click that he was having a hard time. And so basically, what do you do from there when you're getting overloaded by new stuff and everybody else seems to know all of it? And I think, realistically, if we're being honest, a lot of the people that seem to know all of it don't.

Right.

Yeah. Right. They're taking, like, the 10% that they know, and they're excited about using it, and they make it seem like the, you know, like, they've got the entire, like, key to the world with that model. And, you know, to be fair to them, it is exciting stuff. And it's exciting to, you know, any new information you intake. It's exciting to apply and see results and basically have a new path to take. And so I don't mean to, you know, to dump on people that, like, seem like they know more than they do, but if you're learning a lot of stuff, that's one big thing. It's like you're gonna feel overwhelmed that everybody else knows more than you. In reality, like, probably most people know about 10% of what you think you're gonna need to learn.

Right.

So, like, there's this 100% big picture, and you think you need to learn all of it. In reality, most of your peers have about 10% of it down. And so I just want to pause.

For a second because that is so powerful, what you just said.

Okay.

So many people are just in. It's. It's. It goes back to the law of polarity in terms of. It's both everything at the same time. Right. Social media is amazing, and it's also terrible in the Sense that people. Because people miss that if there's 100% of information to learn, you to be effective, need 10%.

Sure.

Yeah.

And I mean, really the goal of learning is to just be better. You know, some people certainly want to be the best. Some people want to be like the Con Ed guy that, you know, has the Con Ed Instagram and has his own, you know, like, buy my course and things like that. And certainly, like, those guys are very effective, which is awesome. But that's not for all of us, especially those of us who, like, we work in person. We don't have an online business. Even though I do like the big goal for most of us coaches, and especially the young ones that, like, haven't had 15, 20 years of experience to compile such a, like, just encyclopedia of knowledge that they actually have the right to sell. You know, so many of us just have to get better.

Right.

And so it's like, take what you can and apply it in a way that simply makes your current product better, like just at a consistent level. Yeah, go ahead.

I think, too, what you said is also really key, is that you just need to get better. And you're not going to get better by reading a book. You're going to get better by implementing the skill that you learned from the book. Nobody learns how to swim by reading it in a book. You have to get in the water. And I think that so many. At least. At least for me, a lot of new coaches that I had worked with when I was a fitness manager, and for me, too, I felt this way as well. Like, I'm just not ready yet. I'll be ready when I learn one more certification. No, no. Take what you've learned. Implement it. That's how you are going to stand apart. Because now you have your own context of, okay, I trained, I learned this, and then I did this, and this is what happened. So let's try it. Okay. Let me get some clinical hours. Get me. Get some reps. You're not going to learn how to squat by reading about it.

Do it. Absolutely. Yeah, no doubt. I, you know, those first couple years out of college, I mowed through Con Ed like crazy.

Right?

But at this point, I mean, I am. I'm responsible for a bunch of people's Con Ed. That has been the most powerful Con Ed that I have ever had.

Right.

Is I barely do any of my own anymore. All I do is teach other people everything that I know or everything that it seems like they need to know to bring up their coaching game. And that's you know, I do. I do some content here and there.

Right.

But. But that's been the most effective thing for my continuous learning is I go very slowly on learning new stuff. But everything that I have in here, between teaching and coaching and programming and all of these other things, it just becomes more and more clear.

Right.

The more times I have to, like, succinctly pull a very complex idea together, the more confident I get, like utilizing that in a program adequately.

Right.

Or the more athletes that I have that come to me with like a specific performance deficit.

Right.

The more, the more comfortable I get writing programs, figuring out if they work, figuring out what the. The big rocks of that were.

Right.

And all this material that I just. Raw material, I have sitting in my head.

Right.

It becomes significantly more cohesive.

Yeah.

Where everything is just sitting in your head of the book.

Right.

But every time I teach, I like, there's like three times every Con Ed meeting that I am answering a question and literally a light bulb goes off for me as I'm making an explanation.

Right.

And so that speaks to the power of, I think, just rehashing everything that, you know in a, like in an application based scenario. Absolutely. And, and so back to the original question.

Right.

When you have this, like, you're diving into biomechanics or you're diving into, you know, what, whatever the, the new thing is like, that you're getting into, you have this entire library of information that you feel like you have to learn. Take it slow, take concepts that you feel like you understand and make connections with them.

Like.

Like make it make sense before you add to it. Don't be in a rush, basically.

Yeah, I know. And that's hard. I'll share. That's hard for me, for sure. Like, I want it now, I want it yesterday, I want to do it now. You know, we underestimate what we can do in a year and overestimate what we do in a day.

Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's in and of itself a very, a very positive characteristic.

Right.

So, like, you're just driven and sometimes it means that you just hit a wall and get really frustrated. And on the flip side, right. You can be too lazy and just wait for stuff to come to you. So there's definitely a sweet spot.

Yeah. But it's the Goldilocks sweet spot, right?

Yeah, yeah. I'm not claiming to be there. I like where I am though, you know?

Yeah, no, same, same, same, same. I also think it's part of the high achiever's curse. Right. Where it's wherever you go, there you are. Right. You know, meaning that we tend to chase the. The, you know, be the best. But the best compared to what? Right. That's part of having the human experience that there's always going to be more to learn. And that's a good thing.

Yeah.

And I think that's hard for a high achiever personally.

Sure, no doubt, no doubt.

So I'm curious for you, you know, in that vein, how do you stay energized when it comes to, you know, doing this for so long and continuing to learn and teach others? How do you get out of the. What feels like the monotony of it all?

Yeah. Just kind of on like a. In a personal sense. Sure.

Or, you know, like, you know, you're you. When I say the monotony of it all. Meaning that, you know, I always think of evidence and experience as a double edged sword, you know, meaning that we have so many. It almost feels like Groundhog Day. For every new coach that comes in, we're saying the same thing. Or for every, you know, thing that you're learning, you're like, wait, I. But this is still a principle and foundation and it can feel a little bit monotonous. And I always tell my coaches at least that, like, hey, if you feel like it's boring, you're probably onto something.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. You know, I do notice, I do notice that with our intern class. This is my fourth class going through this internship curriculum and I noticed like a little bit of repetition on my end, right. Where like, I'm getting the same answers to the questions that I ask them and I'm giving the same answers to their questions. But you know that to some extent that's good.

Right?

It's. These are foundational concepts. I think if everything within that curriculum were changing, right. Like, there'd be something to be worried about, you know, like maybe, maybe I'm getting a little too far ahead of the curve with developing coaches. If everything's changing, I'm probably getting too far into the weeds.

Right.

Because the weeds are the details that like. Oh, like actually it works this way now that we have this study or, you know, xyz. And so I think for the development side of things, for my intern specifically, that's a good thing. Where I do want it to be boring. What really helps is if they are engaged, I personally just, like, I feed off of that.

Right.

Probably it's a little bit of like the nerd in me. I get excited when, like Sciency stuff starts to like make sense and click. And so when they're engaged and we're sitting in a meeting and like they've taken three pages of notes and they're asking really good questions and they're asking applicable on floor questions, that certainly breaks up the monotony for me. Absolutely. As far as the kind of more coaching development and my own personal professional development, I just, I love like kind of new novel things and you sort of have to be careful with that, right. Whether or not that's going to like lead you down a road where you're doing a bunch of stuff that's like kind of not very bang for your buck, pretty ineffective. But what I love is getting into stuff that is that, that after a bit of time I find highly effective and can, can accomplish things that like I previously not thought of.

Right.

And so since I coached Gen Pop for a long time, I had a really heavy strength based background coming into, you know, coaching at a performance gym. And there's a lot of coaches that are there, right? Where it's like strength over everything. And so whatever camp you land in, like just keep getting better.

Right?

But for me actually seeing athletes move and starting to figure out like that athletic movement looks so different than I, than I ever really even like knew in what way. So yeah, like you slow down, you take videos of kids even just sprinting or changing direction or like actually playing on the field and you start to realize like these kids are doing insane things that I can't replicate in the weight room. And it's not that I have to replicate them in the weight room, but it's like I don't think we give kids enough credit for the fact that like, okay, they might be, you know, this might be a 17 year old kid who can't squat with a plate on either side of his back, right? And he's still all conference and just tearing up the field.

Right.

And, and I'm not here to tell you that getting him stronger isn't going to help, but I am definitely aware of the fact that he possesses qualities that transfer specifically to the field and his ability to like, so say, you know, he can just get really aggressive FEMA angles, right? Or he's able to basically like one thing that I've noticed is kids can basically like change tape midair, right? Where you're changing direction. It's not just like, okay, I go this way, then I go that way, right? It's like there's this in between where you're not on the ground and you have to reorient your body while you're in the air in order to redirect your force. And some kids can do a great job of that and some kids can't.

Right.

You're talking about, though, in my opinion, this is the difference between skill acquisition from a book versus skill acquisition in the field in the actual clinical experience. Because what I heard you say is that squatting with a barbell on your back is not going to transfer to this kid's specific, you know, building strength specifically for his sport.

And.

And you're going to context to know that.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you know, and within that, right. If you take that kid from squatting 135 to 315, like, I bet he'll be a more powerful kid on the field.

Right.

I bet that he'll bulldoze defenders and like, these are all great things, but his skills that he currently has don't come from that.

Right.

And so, and so I think, like, that's a kid where, yeah, you certainly need to get him stronger. But looking at him, you start to realize that sports is not necessarily all about just force production plus biomechanical access to positions equals you can do sports.

Right.

It's like this. There's so much nervous system stimulation involved where, like, these things are extremely high speed, they're low consciousness, they're very rhythmic, rhythmic and fluid. And so the kids that possess that are going to be the best on the field sometimes, regardless of how strong they are.

Now, in your opinion, is that something that can be learned or is that something you're born with?

I think it's both. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's. That's everybody's answer or. Right or. It depends, but I do think it's both.

Right.

It's certainly a nature versus nurture and you're going to have to have both. And I think some kids are genetically just like, for whatever reason, whether they're more fast pitch oriented, whether they just, I don't know, like, have better balance or, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the genetic factors are for that. But then also, you know, as you're exposed as like late elementary, early middle school to different types of activities ideally. Right. Like, you would be the type of kid that's out playing like multiple different sports and getting exposed to so many different movement patterns. And these aren't things that you're training for. These are things that you, like, your brain is just assimilating. You know, the earlier you do these things, the Better access, you're going to have to basically all of that information for athletic problem solving down the road. And so I'm not saying kids should just play sports 12 months a year at age 7, I'm saying kids should play at age 7 as much as possible. And I don't think I'm arguing with anybody on that one. I think everybody knows that, but I don't think people realize one of the biggest reasons for that within performance, right? I think long term health obviously has a huge payoff, but one of the biggest reasons for that within performance is basically you have this sort of this scaffolding within your brain and your movement patterns and you have your foundational patterns. And the more exposure to unique positions, unique patterns, unique speeds, unique tasks that you have it literally just exponential as far as what kind of movement problems you can solve. And so if we're talking about, you know, like developing young athletes if they haven't been active, you know, the weight room is a really incredible place to start. And the reason for that is you've got, you know, you've got like your squat, hinge, push, pull, those are foundational patterns. And that's the, the bottom floor of the scaffold. If you can't organize your body in a bilateral squat, you're probably not going to be able to do it in a unilateral squat, right? You're probably not going to be able to do it in a single leg movement, and then you're probably not going to be able to do it extremely well at a higher velocity. That's for like untrained kids, right? So you've got to lay that scaffold and then on top of it, every additional complexity, the scaffold just gets exponentially bigger. One thing that I was reading the other day that like really made this click for me was the idea of like our dexterity within our hands. I'm reading this book called Physical Intelligence and the author talking about basically like scientists have studied hand motions and hand movements, right? And we have like less than 20, like specific motions that we can accomplish within our hands. And everybody talks about how the hand is just so versatile and we can do so many incredible, amazing things with it, which we can, right? But it's 20 foundational movement patterns that we combine or we sequence with each other in a specific way that then make 8 million different possibilities for us to do with our hand. And so I like to think of kind of the weight room side of things on that like, line of thinking with athletes where, okay, if I can do these very foundational things. Like that's that tier one. Like I'm now supporting like very basic movements like problem solving. And then if I can add a second layer of complexity on it, right, that's two layers, but maybe that's 20 times the amount of movement problems that I can solve. And you just sort of add that on for these athletes that like haven't played and haven't had experience with athletic and that's the value of the weight room. But then you've got these kids who have been playing since they were four and they've been doing backflip backflips on their trampolines and they've been running up and down hills and they've been tackling their friends and they've been doing cartwheels. And it's like they, without the force production piece, they have the movement problem solving down pat already. And those are the athletes that I think are more likely to be set up for long term success.

Right.

Once they get to this point mid high school where it becomes clear what sport they're best at, they're set up for long term success in that sport because they have so much movement variability, they're not locked in to like one specific way to solve a movement problem. And that's really powerful for long term health of athletes. That's really powerful for basically like situational competence on the field athletically. And so that's one of the big things that I'm starting to realize now with my more developed athletes who don't have a huge play background, who don't exhibit very good like movement competency like within sprinting or jumping or change of direction, is that I've got to start exposing them to sort of like the, the rhythmic stuff and like learning how to sequence some like submaximal intensity plyometrics together and learning how to like decelerate and re accelerate consecutive times and basically just expose them to things that they never really like, got good at because they don't have a diverse background of play.

Okay, so I'm gonna ask you a question. Okay. That sound, I want to give context to those questions because it's gonna sound like I. Where did this come from? Based on what I talked about. Okay. And then I'm sure you why I'm thinking about it this way. Okay. Because one, in earlier in the episode you talked about how you, you know, really dove into the brain and the psychology and, and what I heard was behavior adherence. Okay. And then now you're talking about how a lot of times people are, are not exposed to a wide variety of movements. So therefore they're not necessarily good at it. And what I find, at least for my children, so now I'm like pulling it into like, well, I have young athletes, okay. And I have girls, okay. And so what I am curious about in what I am navigating in how I'm listening to them both be exposed to different types of movements, different sports, yada, yada. I'm having a hard time navigating the differences between discipline and flexibility in terms of being exposed to things they're not good at and knowing what is true about like, no, I don't like this, I don't want to do this versus like we have to move through not feeling like it. So how do you navigate that with your young athletes?

That's a, yeah, that's a fantastic question. I will say I've been very blessed that I work with like such a high proportion of high caliber high school athletes. And that is rarely an issue. But one thing that I've noticed, and this, you know, this may not comprehensively cover the, the whole question, but I think like you kind of hearken back to like the behavior type of stuff and that kind of thing. One thing that I've noticed is that athletes who are the least disciplined, they're not always the worst athletes. And they're also not necessarily the laziest athletes that when they do show up, they might give you a hundred percent, right. But they're spotty, they don't always show up, they don't necessarily act like it's important. But then they still say like, hey, I really want to be really good at sport. A lot of times what I've, I, this is a feeling, but it's based on stuff that I, I know from some of the like, behavior stuff that I read is a lot of times there's a, an external pressure being put on them that doesn't take into account that they are children with, you know, especially the high schoolers, right? Like they've got exams, they've got college applications, they've got relationships, they've got a friend group that they can't let down, that they've got to feel like, you know, the number one part of they've got coaches that have been, you know, just harping on them for stuff. They've got parents who expect a certain thing from them and like, to varying degrees have grace when they don't follow through.

Right.

You know, like, you know, like you've got your good parents that you love to deal with as a coach. And then you've got your parents that you're like, yo, like, pump the brakes. One of the big things that if I have an athlete that comes in that just, like, is lazy or doesn't really want to try super hard, it's almost always this, like, almost a fear of failure or trying to escape the pressure, right? I think you've got two different things, because I've seen multiple scenarios where you've got an athlete who isn't as good as they thought they would be or hasn't accelerated their progression as quickly as other athletes or other peers around them. And that's disheartening, right? It's like, am I gonna get better or am I gonna get left behind? Because if I keep trying and keep getting left behind, that's embarrassing, right? Because all my friends are really good at sport and I'm not. And what do you do as a kid in that scenario? It's like, well, like, maybe I'll be done, right? Maybe I'll just. Maybe I'll just go be like myself in another way and, like, not be active, because being active makes me look not as athletic as all my friends. And, like, that's brutal. And it's like, okay, like, these are their kids. And, like, that. That's hard to deal with, right? It's just a. It's. It's a way that they feel. Not cast out, but they feel like they might get cast out, right?

Or they.

They feel like they might get called out, right? And then you have the other side of that is the high achiever.

That.

Like, is very nonchalant or even in just, like, classroom work, right? It's like, I'm not going to try very hard, right? It's like, there's all this pressure because everybody knows how good they are.

Yeah.

And they're just trying to escape that, right? And they need, like, both of those athletes need someone to come in and reinforce the other parts of physical activity that are more important than what their peers think, right? And for the kid that's not very good at sports, right? It's like, okay, do you like playing soccer? Like, that's what matters, right? Do you, like, want to play basketball as an adult, right? Or, like, do you want to be in shape and, like, do you enjoy hanging out with your friends here? Like, does it make you feel healthy, all of these other things? Like, if you didn't play basketball, like, would you feel like you weren't a part of a team?

Right?

Would you feel like, is that Extremely important piece of your life that, like, you really feel the need to have. Because a lot of kids, once they quit, they don't have the team. And then regardless of if they weren't good at the sport, they still don't have that support. And so, like, somebody's got to come in and, like, reinforce all of those good things with that kid. And then the. The kid who is under an immense amount of pressure. Someone's got to tell them that it doesn't really matter to the extent that they think it does.

Right.

Somebody's got to tell them that we want you to be good because we want the best for you, but if you are not good, we still care. If you're not good, I still want to see you in the weight room because I enjoy interacting with you. I enjoy helping you lift weights. I love when you smash PRs or set speed records or just. Just make progress. Right. And, like, that's important to me regardless of, you know, whether or not you're going to get that scholarship. That's important to me regardless of whether or not, like, your season's going the way that you thought it would. And that's important to everybody in the community. I mean, these. Some of these kids have an entire, like, community of 30,000 people that know who they are, you know, and, like, I don't think we think about that very often.

Totally.

And you know, what happens if you do show up and you fail? Then everybody sees. But if you don't show up, at least you didn't try.

Right.

At least you didn't try.

It's the protection that people don't realize is there.

Yeah. And so I don't know, you know, if that necessarily correlates with, you know, sometimes kids just don't like certain things. So I don't know if that necessarily correlates exactly with, like, your kids or what you're thinking about there, but to some extent, I think, like, there's usually got to be something going on in the background because, like, kids are wired to play.

Yeah.

Unless they. Unless they're 12. And they never have before. Right. But I mean, like, what happens for most kids in preschool, and I don't have kids of my own, so I've never seen this, but I've, you know, I've worked. I've worked with young kids before, and it's like, at an early age, they are just at each other. It's not until later that they become isolated.

Right.

And it's usually. It's usually a product of the fact that they, like, just. They're not used to that socialization or they're not used to that play. And so if you get them playing.

Early or we have a lot of electronics at hand or that.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's interesting, right? Because my kids say to me all the time, they're like, well, and they're young. They're six or six today. Six and eight. And, you know, my daughter tells me all the time, she's like, you don't let us have the iPad, but you, you know, you run an online business. And I'm like, which is exactly why you can't have it.

Yeah.

Because I know better.

Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. I want you to work with other people, but currently, I'm just gonna work at home. Yeah, for sure.

Oh, my gosh. It's funny. Okay. I want to be mindful of your time. So for those of you who want to go deeper, work with you and connect with you more, what are some of the best places that I can send them?

Yeah, I mean, I really. I interact with the outside world outside of, you know, Jennison, Michigan, purely through Instagram, really. So that is gp.hybrid coaching on Instagram. And I love DMs, so shoot me a DM if you have questions or just want to talk about something or interested. Like, that's cool with me.

Okay, cool. And I will definitely make sure that we link all of that up. So thanks so much for hanging out with me today.

Yeah.

Into me and to the community. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

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