Determining Your Value and Pricing Your Services with Jen Gitomer

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 125. Today I'm sitting down with Jen Gittamer to talk all about determining your value and pricing your services. Are you ready? Let's get started. Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast. What's up, coach? Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson and today I'm sitting down with my good friend Jed Ginnamore, who is obsessed with obsessed with helping service professionals, coaches and entrepreneurs like you make more money. After selling millions of dollars throughout her 15 year career plus in sales, writing a best selling book on sales and growing three businesses, she knows exactly what it takes to grow your business from just barely surviving to thriving. And what she shares in this episode, it's not always easy. She's definitely had some defining moments in her career that have changed. But this moment in particular we did not talk about on the episode, but she did share it here with me in her bio. And so I think it's important to always remind ourselves that it's easy to look at someone else and highlight reel on the socials and say, oh, it's so easy for them because of X, Y and Z. That's not always the case because here she was on the ground, consciously aware that she had just blacked out. From the outside, it looked like she had built a successful career, but on the inside, she was no longer living. She was just existing. And it wasn't until that moment that she realized her financial success does not have to be dependent on working 100 hours a week. Your body, your mind and spirit deserve more. Your biggest breakdown may be the catalyst for your biggest breakthrough yet. It was for her and now she has made it her mission to help female entrepreneurs make a lot of money without having to work all of the time. And today we're talking all about how we determine our value and price our services. Are you ready? Let's get started. What's up, Jen? Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast.

How are you? I am fabulous. How are you?

I'm doing so good and I am so excited for today's episode. You are a genius. So let's just go ahead and dive in. So for those of you who have not gotten to chat to this amazing human, can you just share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there?

Sure. I'm Jane Gittamer and I'm a master at sales and selling. I love helping women entrepreneurs make more sales. And I serve coaches, course creators, service based professionals, and how I got here. I've been obsessed with selling since I was five years old, literally. And I was selling bracelets in the parking lot of the supermarket. My grandma would go in to get food and I thought that was boring. So I would set up a table and chair and make custom bracelets and they would pay me and then I would come back the next week and deliver their custom made bracelet. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever that I could make money and have unlimited income tied to however many sales I made. And I love the craft, I love the potential it creates for people. And I've just been honing my skills since that time, literally.

I love that. I love that. And I know, you know, John and I have been in masterminds together, group coaching programs together, and we both love selling and so I love that. Now, one of the things that I would really love you to dive deeper in, because I know that she has personally helped me with this, is this idea of, you know, how do you price and determine your price and measure your value so that you can over deliver and so that you can over deliver but not undercharge for your value.

Yeah. So I see a lot of people under charging and part of what that boils down to is they're afraid to raise their price, so they're afraid to charge more. Because if I, the belief is if I charge more, then no one will buy, or if I charge more, I'll lose half my customers, whatever that might be. Right. And so number one, okay, let's say you double your price and have half your customers, you still are making the exact same amount of money. Okay, let's just put it out there. You're doing half the work and making the same amount of money. So to me, that's a win because now you have more time back to do other things, maybe serve those customers more deeply. Whatever it may be. The, the first part about creating pricing comes from an internal belief. You have to believe that your products and services are worth what you're going to charge. You have to believe there's a bunch of different beliefs that you need so one of them is you have to believe your products and services are worth it. You have to believe that your company is worth it. So if you own your own business, your company is different than you, and your company is different than your products and services. You may be grouping them all together, but they're actually different things. And the customer may be looking at them differently. The customer may be looking at your branding, they may be looking at your, you know, versus versus you as a personal brand business. And you have to believe that the customer is better off having worked with you. And so that comes from experience, that comes from client wins, that comes from, you know, hearing the testimonials from your clients. So the belief part is really important because how can you transfer that your product or service is worth whatever price you're going to charge if you don't believe it yourself? So first you need to believe it, and then when you believe it, you can transfer it. So I work with my clients and creating a belief book where literally you print out every testimonial, every nice note you've ever received, every piece of feedback, like maybe it's a video testimonial, whatever those things are, and you put them in like a keynote presentation for yourself or a physical book, whatever you like. Like whatever your thing is. Some people do it in Canva. You know, you could do it wherever. And when you're coming up with pricing, you go back to that. You look at the proof from other people because that reinforces your belief. Now, your belief has to come internally first. But you wouldn't be owning a business if you didn't believe that you could help other people. So you already have that foundational belief, and now it gets to get reinforced by your clients and the help that you're giving others. And so when I look at pricing, people are like, oh, well, what feels right? How do I do it? And it's like, wait, before we even talk about a number, how much do you believe in whatever it is you're offering? How much do you believe that it can help other people? Because that's going to directly transfer into the price.

Now, would you say that this is true? Because I've heard you talk about this too, and I'm curious for your people that maybe are starting at the beginning, or maybe they like just got. For me, I'm in personal training, so maybe they've just got their personal training certificate. Maybe they don't have the reps or they don't have the volume of client experience underneath them. They just have their own Knowledge and their own knowing of their own experience. So when someone's at the beginning, how do you recommend they, they determine the value that they're bringing to the market? Space.

Yes. So first of all, they probably got some result to get into it, right? They, maybe they help themselves. Okay? So that, don't discount that if you helped yourself, you just helped the hardest person on the planet to help yourself. Because you literally had to coach and train that internal voice that, that we can all so easily just ignore, you know, or tune up like they, they did that. That's huge. Coaching other people is going to be so much easier. So that's number one. Number two, go out and help two people for free. Not forever, like one session. Okay? Give two, three people a free session. I did in the beginning of my, when I was starting to create workshops, I did a free workshop. I rented a room, I invited six people, I rented a, I hired a videographer and I taught an entire day of sales to the. And I said to these people, all you have to do is show up. I'm selecting six people. Because it was a small room in New York City, I'm selecting six people. And all you have to do is show up and be present and be willing and eager to learn. And the test, I still, that was 10 years ago, nine years ago. I still use some of those testimonials, okay, because they were so freaking strong. And it created this belief in me, like, oh, I can do this. And so, you know, maybe hope, host a group class for free where you can get a bunch of testimonials and a bunch of client feedback. But if you're just starting out, that doesn't mean that you haven't gotten results. It just means that you now get to get the reps, you now get to put the work in to create that belief and that confidence that you need and start out at whatever price you want. And then when you begin to see results, you're going to just promise yourself that you'll revisit your prices every three to six months to make sure they're still aligned and into what you're. You're offering. So I'll give you an example. I just finished a certification program. I graduated last night. We had this big three hour long zoom. Graduation was very cool. And at the end of the program, they were asking like, well, what are you going to do differently now in your business? How are you going to incorporate that? What does that look like? And as I realized that I could help people at an even deeper level, I Started journaling to myself, and I'm like, oh, I'm raising my prices because what I can help someone achieve now is worth even more, right? And I was like, wait, when was the last time I raised. I'm raising everyone else's prices. When is the last time I raised my own prices? And it was this cool moment of reflection of, okay, I'm in, you know, and I committed to it, because that's what you have to do first. You have to commit to it, believe that your service is worth it, and then do it right away. Don't. If you hesitate on it, you're going to overthink it. And so today I had a sales call with someone, and I told her my new price as if it's been my always price, because that's now what I believe it's worth.

Amazing. Yeah, totally. Totally helps. You know, I. I would love for you to dive a little bit deeper into some more of, like, the common misconceptions that people have and the mistakes that they make when they're pricing their services and presenting their. Their offers.

So I see a lot of people on calls or however you're meeting people who are, like, afraid to say that maybe if I don't tell the price, they'll buy anyway. I don't know about you, but I never walked into, like, a car place where I was. I'm like, okay, I'll take it. Wait, how much is it that doesn't happen, you know? Or like, oh, that dress, that looks awesome. Wait, oh, how much is it? You know, like, no, you. You people naturally want to know the price, so don't avoid price is my point. If someone's asking you the price, that's the only thing on their mind. And so you can address it from the standpoint of, look, I don't want you to make a price decision, because if I tell you the price right now, you're going to say. I would literally say this to them. You're going to say, oh, it's $80 an hour. I really thought it was going to be 50. Or it's $150 an hour. I really thought it was going to be. Look, I'm going to tell you the price, but then I'm going to show you the results I help my clients get and why it's worth this price. Okay, so if they ask you the price, give it to them. But. But tell them you're going to explain the value. Another thing I see people do wrong is they. They list out the features and benefits. No one Cares, like, no, no one. Like, they just don't care. What they care about is the outcome. They want to know if it is training that I want to know that I am going to be stronger. I want to know that I am going to lose weight. I want to know that I am going to have more energy. I want to know all of those things. And that by the way, for me personally, I am not everyone, right? But for me personally, I don't want it to take a lot of time because I have a lot of stuff going on. So now finding an extra hour to however much time in my day to work out is a commitment. And so how are you going to make that fun and enjoyable and give me the results that I need or that I want? And what I see people do is they get right into like, we are going to have four sessions. So it's one session a week. And they go through like the like list. The bulleted list of like laughing is totally true. This is totally true. Okay, keep going. So, like I just had a discovery call for someone who wants coaching. I didn't get to the whole time we talked about her. Why, like what she wants to achieve, what she's going to get out of it, what other similar people in her situation have gotten out of it. I told stories of, without naming clients, but told stories of that. Things that she can relate to. And it wasn't until the very end when I said, oh, and it's this much money. And by the way, you get two calls a month and unlimited voxer support. Like, that was the very last piece. Because she doesn't. She didn't care. Because if you set it up correctly, then the person doesn't care as much about the like, nuts and bolts. They care about what it's going to help them build. You know, like if I go to Lowe's and I'm like, hey, I need a drill. And they're like, oh, we don't have any drills left here. And then they just send me home. That doesn't help me, right? But if they actually ask questions and they're like, well, what are you creating a hole for? What is that going to do? Where are you going to put it? What are you going to put into it? We can maybe we can find another tool, right? And so if you actually uncover their real why, then you have a chance of figuring out what tools they need and what strategies they need. And most people will won't share their real why off the bat. So they'll say, oh yeah, I want to Lose weight. Ok. That is like only part of it. And you have to go deeper. And so how do you go deeper? You ask questions, you be genuinely curious to the best salespeople really want to uncover, really want to A, be helpful, but and also B, they want to understand the other person and create that relationship. And so if you want to lose weight, that is great. So what will that do for you? Can you remember a time where you felt like that? What does that bring you back to? What were you able to do then? Oh, are you hoping to be able to do that now? Oh yeah. I really want to be able to play with my 3 year old son and not be tired. OK. That is the real why. OK. It is not just they want to lose weight, they want to be able to play with their child. Right. And not. So you have to be able to hold that space and be comfortable with sometimes silence while they're thinking and ask those meaningful questions that most people are afraid to ask. And once you can do that and you can, you can uncover the actual emotional reason, then price, price starts to go away because the desire to gain is, is greater than the, the price fight.

Mm. I love that. And I think too like one of the things that you said that I think is just so powerful and worth reiterating is that you have to believe it. Because what I find and see is that people will try and fill the silence or they'll fill that space trying to prove that they know so much and that it's wor. And they try and teach their clients which will make them feel like this as opposed to helping them, you know, get the clarity that they need to take the next action. Because we're just information overload.

Right.

And people get so paralysis by analysis.

Yes. Yeah. The paradox of choice is huge.

Yes.

Yes. So if you give people too many choices, if you have like 600 packages and then like 15 different ways to pay, it's too confusing. Okay. So you need, it needs to be really like no one wants to go. Like they're ordering off one of those Menus with like 600 columns. Like you begin to get confused. Like, I don't know, just what's the best thing here? Just. I'll have that, you know.

Yeah.

So give them two simple choices. We can do it this way or that way. And then if they need more options. Okay, let me customize that for you. But if you give them, well, we have these 600 packages, you know, it gets. And I'm exaggerating, but I've seen it. I'VE seen it on a sales page where there's literally like so many options. I'm like, I don't know which one I need, you know, and then I'm lost. And then I'm. We, we go into this, there's so many, so many things coming in our direction and we get distracted and then we don't check out.

Yeah, absolutely. I also think too that people undervalue the. That selling is a service.

Yes, yes. So when you give things away for free or even undervalue it, your client doesn't value it as much. Now, I'm not talking about if you're a newbie and want. There's always a time and place. Right. So if you're a newbie and really just want to get that experience, that's different to get those reps in. If you're doing a good deed for someone, you know, that you can really, really help them and they really can't afford it or they just need like it, you know, there's always a time and place for that and I always have the time and space for that on my calendar for, for people that. Because people helped me along the way too. Right. So I want to always be able to give back. But the majority, you're in business to make money. You're not in business to be broke. And so this is not like an expensive hobby over here. Okay. This is a for profit thing that you're doing. And so your clients need to understand that and they're going to show up with a different energy if they're paying, you know, a lot per session versus if they're getting it for free.

So true. It's so true. And also it's like there needs to be an energy. Your client needs to have something on the line.

Right.

So. And, and the thing with price is that it's so arbitrary and subjective in the sense that it's not for us to decide what's expensive and what's not because $27 is gonna go. Is gonna go a lot different in Africa than it's gonna do in the States. It's not for us to decide what's expensive and what's not.

And it's going to go a lot further in the Midwest than it's going to go in New York City. You know, like in terms of a fitness class. Right. Where the space is more limited. And so.

Yeah, and the things too, especially if you are a newbie, is that if you still come from, operate from this place of, of undervaluing. Undervaluing your services, then what happens is you're going to call in those people and then you're not going to get the results because they're not going to show up for themselves. Price sometimes is not even about you. It's about this. It's about asking your client to put something on the line so that they can get the outcome that they need.

Yes. It's an energetic exchange and it's so key. I love how you just said that. That's beautiful. And you know, there's a reason why people pay for Chanel bags. They value that right now. Not. It's not for everybody. Okay. It's certainly not for you. Can. You can go to Walmart and get something to carry your phone and your wallet in and you can go to Chanel and the two bags, Pocketbooks. Do people still call them Pocketbooks?

I don't know.

The two purses, Pocketbooks, whatever. They serve the same purpose. But you have someone who's willing to Pay, you know, four or $5,000 for something that someone else is going to pay $5 for. And the way they carry it around might be different as well. And the way they value that piece, that item might be different. Okay. The person who. It's just, there's. There's a different feeling. Right. And so, so there's always going to be someone who will take that investment in themselves, whether it be for the luxury item or the fitness service or the nutrition plan or whatever it is, and pay more. And because they value it. They value it. And your job as a fitness professional is to get them, is to transfer your value, is to be able to transfer your message in a way that says, hey, I'm worth it. I'm like the Chanel bag of fitness or whatever, right? And. And be able to transfer that message of why it's worth it and how it's going to help them.

No, I love that. So I do. I am curious now if someone said to you, okay, Jen, I want to be the Chanel bag of fitness, how do I do that?

Well, okay, so let's look at Chanel, right? They have a look. You know that when you go, when you see anything Chanel, it's always consistent. There is this luxurious look. So let's look at your branding. Does. Is your branding consistent? Does it have that luxury look and feel? What if someone looks at your branding, what does it say to them? Because that's what they're looking at before they even meet you. Okay. If they're, if they're finding you online, then what, what Are your results right? People who, like, we see results, so to say, of Chanel wearers as the people who are wearing them are typically making money or successful in some way. Or we. There's like this direct assumption. There's an assumption that that, that's. That exists there. And so what are the results that you're getting? Your clients? And then you can literally begin to compare everything you notice about a luxury brand and ask yourself, does my brand speak the same language? Does it. When you go to my website, does it. Does it make you want to click? The Chanel's not coming after you and calling you and cold calling you and saying, buy my bag, right? They're creating attraction marketing. Granted, with like a way larger budget than a small business or an entrepreneur, but they're creating attraction marketing, and people are going to them and saying, here's my money. Take it. I want the bag. And so let's create the same thing in your. In your market, if that's what you want. And so how are you showing up? How are you putting yourself out there to create that attraction marketing? So people are literally raising their hand saying, I want to work with you. I want. I want Beverly's help. I want Jill's help, whoever, right? I want their. Their help to work with them.

Yeah, so true. So true. And I also think that, like, you know, this comes with, you know that that's why I just. We talk all so much about the internal state, right? Because what happens is, is people will say, oh, yeah, but I don't have those results yet. I don't have that client yet. Go create it. And what would it look like if you showed up convicted knowing that the right people that I'm about to tran. That I'm about to transform, they're coming to me, they're here, they're on their way. You'll show up differently.

So everyone starts with out clients. Like, how do I. How do I say this? Everyone starts with zero, right? We all start at the same place. You start with zero followers, then you get. Gain a follower, however many, right? Hundreds, thousands. Everyone starts somewhere. And so if you are new, cool, that means you have a massive opportunity to create something. And, you know, you can make a list right now of 10 people that probably want fitness help and call three of them. Call all 10 of them, say, hey, I'm taking on a free client to have a case study for the next month. Could we measure where you're at right now, determine your results that you want to get and see where we can get in A month and see how it's like working with me. Okay. What you have is time. And so you may not have a large budget to pour into marketing, but you have time and you have your knowledge and you have your skills, and. And so go use them in a way that builds your confidence and. And builds a referral base. You want to create raving fans because the best way to spread the word is you know how. Okay, let's think about it this way. How often do you get your hair colored?

I'm going on Sunday. You see all these.

Okay. You do? No, no. But you do love your stylist. Your hair looks great. Do you love your stylist?

Yes, I do. Yes.

Okay. How many people have you told about. How many people have you said, like, oh, my God, you got to go see her?

It's actually a him. And I have. Multiple times. Yeah, I have.

Yeah. So you've referred him to a lot of people.

Yes.

Do you refer doctors and dentists and.

Oh, sure.

We do it all the freaking time. Okay. Because as human beings, we love sharing when we have a great interaction with someone who. Who's helped us and who can help others. Right. I tell everyone about my dentist. If anyone lives here, I'm like, oh, do you have a dentist? I have the best dentist.

Let me tell you about him.

Okay. I love my dentist.

Yeah.

I tell everyone, like, I have a new hairdresser. I tell everyone about her because I've been seeing her now for like, a year, so she's not really that new, but she's amazing. And so anyone who wants to. Okay, you have to become that person that everyone wants to refer. And the way you do that is you be you. You go give people the results that you're. That you have within you to give you be you. And then you will create that referral marketing. And that's a huge part, because when someone comes to your hairdresser and they're like, hey, Beverly referred me, they're not sitting down and saying, wait, but how much is everybody portion of this going to be? No, they're like, Beverly referred me. She has freaking awesome hair. I want hair like her. So. So whatever you need to do, I'm here. You know, I love it.

I love it. So true. Okay, Jen, I really want to be mindful of your time. So for those of my coaches who want to come and learn more about you and hang out with you, what are some of the best places that I can send them?

Okay, two places. My Instagram. Let me know you're you were listening to Beverly's podcast so we can connect dme. I love messages and I respond to all of them. And also just my website, Jen Gittermer. Oh my Instagram Jen Gittermer mind readers. So Jen Gittermer and then Jen gittermere.com which is my website. And on there there's a free webinar you can go through whole bunch of stuff. So come hang out. I'd love to meet you. I love it.

Okay. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today and pouring into me and to my community. I really appreciate it.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for listening to the PT Profit podcast. If you like this episode, chances are your friends will too. So it would be a huge service to us if you would please leave us a review and share with your friends on your social media channels. When you leave us a review, be sure to take a screenshot of it and email that screenshot to my team atinfo simpson fitness.com and we'll send you a very special Instagram podcast that will show you how to create compelling content so that your ideal clients come to you and you go from wanting clients to a wait list of clients ready for your services. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.